The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband Sexts 9 Other Women. Is That Cheating?

Episode Date: February 17, 2023

In this episode, we hear from: - A wife whose husband has sexted over nine other women in the last two years - A 26-year-old unsure of how to navigate dating a woman with a child - A woman wondering how to best help her sister-in-law who’s dabbling in cocaine Lyrics of the Day: "Release" - Grace Potter Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Is sexting cheating? One million percent this is cheating. But then I think, like, who am I to say who he can and can't text? You're his wife! And you are digging a hole in your backyard and burying yourself in it so that you don't have to face reality. That your husband sucks.

What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. The greatest parenting and marriage and mental health podcast ever, ever, ever. And you found us. Whether a friend sent you this link or you were searching for something on the internets or you just stumbled across us on YouTube or you just woke up one morning

and the cosmos said, you should look up this quasi clown who has a podcast about mental health and marriage and parents. However you found us, you did. And I'm so glad that you are here. If you want to be on the show, give me a call at 1-844-693-3291

or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. Sorry for Sarah, the editor. You got to cut all this stuff out because I don't know how to do radio or podcast. That's my new tune. All right, let's go to Linda in Kansas City. What's up, Linda? Hi, how are you?

I'm so good. How are you? I'm doing fine, thanks. I'm honored to talk to you, so thanks for taking my call. I'm super honored to talk to you. And for those of you who don't know, who you wouldn't know, I hung up on Linda. I had a screwy intro we have to edit out that you'll never hear. But Linda, you heard it all, so I'm glad you're sticking around with us

I'm going to figure out how this thing works at some point Good grief Alright so what's up Okay so I have a question I'm doing a lot of research and I just kind of need an answer Is sexting cheating That's kind of my big question And so

I are Listen Listen That's kind of my big question. Listen, listen. You heard the show before? I mean, have you listened to the show before? Yeah, a lot. Okay. So you'll understand when I say a lot. It's rare that somebody just walks up and puts a ball right on the tee for me or or just throws an underhand pitch and so on behalf of all of humanity and especially me thank you thank you so explain

explain this explain your question a little bit more okay so my husband and i have been married for seven years we have four kids six four three and almost two. Oh, good God almighty. Okay. So you live in a blender. Yeah, pretty much. And a couple of months ago, I was on my husband's phone looking for an email confirmation for Netflix or Audible or something like that. And the first text message that I saw was, good morning, baby. I'm like, that's a little weird. So I looked a little bit in his phone, a little bit more, and I saw some flirty pictures and some flirty texts.

And still I thought, that's a little weird. So I checked Snapchat and some other social media, and there were naked pictures of nine other women. Still I thought, that's really weird. That's not normal, right? So I brought it up into our counseling session because we are in therapy. And he admitted to sexting three women over the last two years. I was absolutely devastated. And when I tried to talk to him outside of counseling, he got really upset and really offended that I used the word affair. And he says he didn't

cheat because there was no, actually he had never had actually had sex with anyone else. But he has hung out with several of them in person before and after the sexting cheated in a group setting and one-on-one with a couple of them. So is sexting cheating, is it worse when the women aren't strangers? Are these affairs or am I just blowing this all out of proportion? I think you're crazy, Linda. I don't think you have anything to worry about. Okay, we're done. Before I answer this, are you – I'm asking this. I have a smile on my face, but I'm not being a jerk, okay?

Okay. Like ask yourself this question. Pretend that one of your girlfriends calls you and was like, hey, I need to get coffee and she had snuck she had taken her husband's phone and it was full of these conversations with other women naked photos of other women um confirmation that he was hanging out with them what would your answer to her be i would say absolutely one One million percent this is cheating. No ifs, ands. I mean, this is gaslight. I mean, the gaslights are burning so bright here

because you are the one walking around feeling like you're crazy. But then I think, like, who am I to say who he can and can't text? Who am I to say who he can't handle? You're his wife. You're his wife. You're his wife. That's why. And when I married my wife, I invited her in to have a say into my life forever. That's what marriage is.

Now. Even if we've been in survival mode for the last five years with babies and toddlers, and I'm not as pretty or as thin as I used to be, is it okay for him to get visual stimulation from sexting and strip clubs? Or again, is that still cheating? Linda, what happened with you? Why do you think so little of yourself? It's been a rough couple of years. Yeah, but I mean, where is this coming from? You're the mother of four incredible kids.

This is, I mean, I don't even, you listen to the show, I'm speechless. I don't have words. This isn't about, well, I don't look, you listen to the show, I'm speechless. I don't have words. This isn't about, well, I don't look how I used to. You have four children under six and under. This is the moment that a husband steps up and rallies around his wife. And through the crucible, through the challenge of having four little ones, you become more unified than ever. And you got to figure out how to do a completely new life because life before four kids was chaotic

and y'all could just have sex whenever. And you can leave clothes all over the house and your bras hanging from a ceiling fan and your husband is in North pan. So that was that life. And it was awesome. And now you got a bunch of children and you could still have that life, but you got to plan it, right? And it's got to be, it's just a totally different way of being. This isn't for you to be like, well, that was fun for that 18 months before we started having kids. And now I'm just ugly and not worth being loved. And I should high five him as he heads out to hook up with these women. And by the way, a thousand percent, he's lying to you.

Of course he's hooked up with them. That's insane. It's madness. Hooked up as in? Yes. Okay. Yes. Yes Okay Yes I mean I can't imagine a scenario

And there's some anonymity If you will to strip clubs There's some anonymity to pornography That's a whole other conversation Okay This is people he's in relationship with He hangs out with them He has dates with them.

When someone goes out one-on-one with somebody that they've exchanged naked photos with, that's called a date. Okay. He's actively dating women. That's not you. And I don't want to say I'm defending him, but it sounds like you've given him permission.

Well, when you put it like that, kind of, yeah. But he said he's cut off all contact with three of the nine. I mean, Linda, Linda, Linda, listen. You are getting the world you're allowing. If you want a husband who is about integrity and fidelity, then that's the world that I wish I had a better word for it.

That's the world you demand. That's the world you say I'm worth. And if you want a husband that's got nine girlfriends on the side, then knock your lights out. But you might as well go ahead and file for divorce now. Just call it.

Because you're going to torture yourself at the altar of I'm not pretty enough or I'm not good enough or I used to be but now I'm not. And you're worth

so much more than that. And by the way, your kids are watching this. They're absorbing this. This is what marriage and love looks like. This is what commitment and I'll be with you till the end of time through sickness and health. They're absorbing this. Oh, sweet.

When she gains weight, you go get some on the side. When you gain weight, you have to let them go because you're no longer worthy of integrity and fidelity. Linda, it's madness. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I cut you off. Go ahead. Is it reasonable for me to expect to talk about this outside of our weekly therapy sessions i mean the fact that

you're asking this question tells me this relationship's so over yes you can talk about this anytime for in any place and i mean like why would you ask that question? Are you safe? Is he abusive? No, he just has a lot of anxiety when he talks about it. Hold on, hold on. All anxiety is is an alarm. And of course the alarms are going off because he's caught. He's busted.

And he's got a pretty sweet deal right now. He's got a live-in nanny for his four kids. And he's got nine girlfriends on the side and so anytime that little world gets threatened of course his anxiety alarms are going to go off but that i can't talk about it it makes me anxious shut up get over yourself that's bullcrap and i've got anxiety i'm clinically diagnosed so i can say it's bullcrap he's lighting you up like a Christmas tree with the gas lights. My sister. Okay.

I, I, I don't think you are able to, and I, it's, I understand. Okay. I don't think you are in a place where you can wrap your head around the

reality of your, of your marriage and the situation you find yourself. And I don't know who told you that you had so little value, but they lied to you and they were wrong. You are worth so much more. And by the way, I'd be saying this if he was sitting on the phone, I'd be saying this if he was sitting right here at this desk. The way he's treating you is disgusting and it's unbelievable. And I'm sorry.

When I say it, do you believe it? Or do you think I'm crazy? It makes me feel a lot better that I'm not going crazy. I don't think someone said that to me in a while. What are you going to do? What does your counselor say, for God's sakes? We haven't really addressed if it's cheating or not cheating quite yet. Hey, listen, you need to find a new therapist.

And I'm saying that directly. And I would say that to the therapist who's sitting right here. It's cruel. The old guard of therapy is you just sit there and you play referee while two people kind of say their thing and it kind of comes out. And what all of the emergent literature suggests is that's cruel because you watch one person drown somebody in a session. And the new way to do it, my buddy calls it wave three of therapy. As people are figuring out how human beings work, right? Which is really just a laughable way of like we're finally being wise. Is you take sides.

You call it out. I'm going to stop you right there, sir. You're having a sexual relationship with nine different people. And you're married to her. See what I'm saying? I'm sorry that your counselor has just let this go on. It's nonsense.

Absolute nonsense So sexting is A sexual relationship Unequivocally Never for a second doubt that As long as you live As much as I'm sitting here wearing a black shirt with buttons on it Sexting somebody is engaging In a sexual relationship

period there is no discussion there is that news? that can't be news to you Linda no it's not I just I have rose colored glasses on and so I just want to see

like it's not really it's, like, it's not really, it's not really cheating. It's not really, because there's a lot online. There's four little kids online. Yes. And you are digging a hole in your backyard and burying yourself in it

so that you don't have to face reality. That your husband sucks. Fair? Yeah. Fair. I'm Yeah. Fair. I'm sorry, man. I mean, I'm heartbroken for you. I can't wrap my head around how it got here.

Me neither. I would recommend with all of my being that you go see a counselor on your own. Okay? Okay. Okay. Because you are entering into, you would be entering into marriage therapy. It's such a distorted power differential. You think so little of yourself that it's,

you have been told probably for most of your life that you have so little value or your only value is in a few things. And then we had kids and so they're gone for the time being. And so la-di-da. And it's, it's gonna, it's, it's kind of like an extension cord trying to go into a plug in the wall. The plug in the wall is so messed up that we're going to have to go to an electrician and have them pull it out and help rewire this thing. Because you have to be able to look in the mirror and say, I'm a person worthy of being loved. And I'm a person worthy of, there's chaos in my home. And there's going to be for a while. How can we have romance and sexual intimacy and fun and laughter and flirtation? All that.

How can we create that world inside of the chaos of diapers and clothes everywhere and random socks and some kid just peeing all over the place? How do we do that inside of that? And that is what strong marriages do is they see the challenge ahead and they choose to enter into it. They lock arms even tighter.

And there is chaos and bumps and bruises along the way. Because we keep remembering back to the way it was. That season's over. Got to build a new thing moving forward. But my big, my bigger concern here is you just thumbing through your husband's phone with pictures of nine different women he's meeting with and who are sending him naked pictures and who he's having dates with.

And you think something's wrong with you. Hear me say this. You're worth more than this. If I can do anything to help you along the way, I'll be here. Let me know. We'll be right back All right, uh, we're back hey during the break I that last call

The whole booth back there. Everyone's just speechless except for all the yelling they were doing um and joe the engineer had a Sound engineer had a great question that I wish I had asked sometimes I'm driving home and I think I should ask this I should have asked this question to Linda what would your husband say if he were to grab your phone and you were sending and receiving nude photos to nine different men would he be like cool

that's awesome you should go hang out with him photos to nine different men. Would he be like, cool. That's awesome. You should go hang out with him. Or would he lose his mind? Because his property doesn't do that. If you're ever feeling like you think you're not crazy, but the person you're in a relationship with is making you feel crazy,

just ask yourself, what would they do if the tables were turned? The exact same thing was happening, but it was you that was doing it, not them. And that's usually a good answer that you're not crazy. Wow. All right, let's go. I'm just going to... Kyle, you're going to pick me back up, brother. Let's go to Kyle in Philadelphia where you were born and raised,

and the playground is where you spent most of your days. What's up, dude? Hey, how you doing? Good. Hey, I need you to rescue me here. What's up, man? I guess I just had a question where – Hey, if you were to just be like, listen, I've been sexting a lot,

and I just want to know if that's cheating that would be incredible but hopefully that's not what you're asking what's up that's not me um my question is so i'm a 27 year old man i'm still trying to figure out you know my life together just you know with career and stuff um but i ended up meeting a girl um and as far as my past relationship she she's a walking green flag. Everything about her is just great. But the issue that I'm having is... The walking green flag.

That's a good way to put it. She's great. She's super cool, super funny, super cute. Everything's great. But the issue is that she has a kid. And that's kind of where I wanted to speak with you about it because I need some help. I need some advice here. What disqualifies an amazing woman from being amazing just because she has a child?

Nothing. My thing is that that's why I kind of went to mention, I said, I'm 27 I'm still trying to figure out my life And that's where it's like, you know That's something that It's just I don't picture Get to it You are circling the wagons, homie

Just get to it And here's the deal When you say it out loud You know you're going to sound bad Just say it anyway Let's get to it I just think I'm not ready for a kid yet. Break up with her right now.

Break up with her right now. Break up with her right now. Because this amazing woman doesn't come without her kid. In fact, she'd be a terrible human being if she ditched her kid for you. And you don't want to be a dad. Cool. She's not the one for you right now have enough decency and enough respect for you for her for that sweet little kid of hers to call it and to have the integrity to say everything about you i love i am not ready to be a dad.

I get that, but that's the thing. I'm not 100% against it, and that's kind of why I want this. You have to be 1,000% for it. You can't partly be in a parenting role. I get that. It's all all all all in and I've got a buddy I was out

on a hunting trip the other day with a buddy in the middle of the frozen tundra up north who married somebody adopted her son right away and years later their relationship's amazing. He's an amazing dad.

He's always been married to her and a dad. That's how they started the relationship, and it's awesome, and it's hard. It adds some complexities. There's some challenges along the way, no question about it. But you want both. You want a fantasy version of her. And that person isn't real. And when we project fantasies onto other people, it ends in ash and a lot of broken hearts. And this time there's a kid.

Don't do that. And that's kind of why I wanted to speak with you about it. Cause I kind of wanted, like you said, like it's hard. Like I kind of wanted to, I have no idea what it would be like. Cause like, we're still very new. Like we're not even dating yet. Like we've just been going out on dates, but you know, we've been clicking very hard where, um, we've been seeing each other a lot and she's super like understanding. She's like, she tells me at any point, if it gets too much with like her custody schedule or anything like that, she will be willing to understand if I can't do it. Like I said to you, I'm not 100% against it. I have never seen myself in this position before. I kind of want to

see what I am signing myself up for if I do do this because I obviously have no idea. I don't think any parent who has kids or adopts kids on fully knows what they're signing up for until they're all in. Cause if we did, we'd probably, there'd be moments when we, we opted out.

That's, that's, that's the, that's the deal, right? That's the deal. And so again, you want to have a tryout period you want to practice and that's not fair to her and it's not fair to that kid

i think i i hundred percent i mean i get that you this is not how you drew it up right you were going to meet somebody and then y'all going to fall in love you're going to be married for seven or eight years then you might have a kid or what i i get that or i'm never going to have a kid i have no interesting kid um that totally makes sense that's the same as i fell in love with somebody and then we ended up moving into nebraska i'd never had that plan i thought we're gonna live in new york city for that life happens that way that's okay where it's not okay is when you fully understand oh i didn't expect this and here it is and i only want part of this but you got to let the rest go you got to let all of it go or you got to say i'm a hundred percent in i get that what do you think i was gonna say

because you don't like my answer what do you think i was was going to say? No, I don't have a problem with your answer. It's because, like I said, I'm 27, so all my friends are the same age as me, and none of them have ever dealt with this. So it's like when I talk to somebody about it, they give me the, you know. What are your friends telling you? Well, my closest friends are like, oh, I can still see you is a step dad like they make a joke out of it but um um obviously it's a big challenge and they all say they couldn't do it um with me like i said i'm not against it i'm not 100 against it like i've not i have not

when we first started, it was a fling. We both talked to each other. We both were just like, we are not looking for anything serious. But we immediately clicked. So I knew from the start that she had a kid.

And you hooked up with her anyway. And here you are. Yes. Yes. And so, either you're going to have to break somebody's heart You hooked up with her anyway. And here you are. Yes. Yes. So that's where it's like. And so either you're going to have to break somebody's heart or you're going to have to choose to grow up. Either way, you've got a path that you weren't expecting. Absolutely. If, let me say this, if you choose to get serious with her, you have to understand that her kid will come first.

The kid has to come first. And you've got to know that. Yeah, I 100% know that. And you've got, and not only know that, but that has to be not only okay with you, that's got to be awesome because that's the way it should be. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm.

I've watched plenty of videos, watched Red Oracles. Like, I'm fully understanding of that part. Absolutely. And you're going to have to make peace with her ex. Whether that was a fling or they were married before, whatever. Because that dude's going to be part of your life forever. Yeah. Just is.

And I've seen it done so incredibly well. Like dads, like, like go out and check in with each other. What are you seeing with our kid? Like basically dads, they're like, hey man, we got two sets of eyes on this, on this kid. This kid's going to get double love from us and i've seen it handled so immaturely that you would think there were middle schoolers involved they're so dumb like it's my it's my toys i'm taking my trucks and going home it's just so lame so if you're in call the dude and ask him out for dinner and say i'm gonna be a part of this woman's life i love this woman i want to honor your kid till the end of time tell me what you're seeing tell

me about your boy tell me about what you want to see like invite him in and if he chooses to act like a middle schooler you can't do anything about it but at least you will take the high road and see like i'm trying to paint a picture for you dude Dude, I would not discount a single mom for anything. Okay? Like, there's nothing that disqualifies her from being amazing and awesome. The question is,

do you want to be a dad? Right now. And if you don't, walk away, man. And if you do, be all, all, all in all right yeah that makes sense

and quit asking your buddies dude they don't they don't know man that's why i wanted to speak with you because i was like somebody that i actually like i listen to you all the time so i was the time. I trust your opinion enough where I can give you a call. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Man, I wish you the best, whatever. And so, number one, make sure you do this. Don't read the YouTube comments on this because you're going to get all kinds of people throwing grenades and all.

So just don't do that. The second is I'm not going to fault you for not wanting to be a dad at 27. Cool. Where I will fault you is if you drag this poor woman through it because y'all keep hooking up. Or if you kind of like hanging out with her, but you don't see a future for it, but in some shape, form, or fashion,

you lead her to believe that there is a future. That's just cruel, man. Don't do that. Don't do that. And that's not just with single women. That's with any women. And women, that's with anybody you're romantically attracted to. Just don't do that. Just don't do that.

But man, she sounds awesome. She's a walking green flag. I've never heard that. It sounds like she's got some kind of illness, but I'm going to trust you that that means it's awesome. I don't know, man. You've got a hard decision to make. Just be a person of character integrity when you make it. We'll be right back. All right, we're back. Let's go to Lacey in Buffalo, New York. What's up, Lacey? Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call. Of course. What's happening? Okay, so I wrote down a couple of thoughts, so then I'll follow up my question if that's okay. Very cool. Absolutely.

Okay, so my call today is regarding my little sister-in-law. We love her very, very much, but I recently found out that she's been dabbling in cocaine. Obviously, this is very concerning to us, but equally concerning is a pattern of behavior that we've witnessed over the past few years with her. She's only 21, but since she was around 16, we've seen a lot of deception in all of her relationships, not just with the family. And on the outside right now, it seems like she's doing okay. She's got a good job working in finance. She's got her own place. She's got a boyfriend. She's pretty responsible. But then we learn about things that she's lying to us or lying to others about. And I guess the terrifying thing to us is that the lies seem to get bigger and nothing is really slowing her down. And sadly, I'm afraid that if we talk to her about, you know, the cocaine usage, that she'll just lie and deny that she's doing it. So my question is, do we still try to talk to her?

And if so, what can we say? This one's hard and unfortunately because of my previous career I've just man had this conversation a lot

it's hard yeah how'd you guys find out she's doing coke a co-worker who's also a friend of mine, um, told me. Gotcha. What happened when she was 16?

Was there stuff that went on in the family? Did she have some abuse? Did she get with, have a boyfriend that got side? Like what, what happened there? Um, so she comes from a very loving home. Um, she's one of five kids and she's the youngest of five kids. And, um, um, she got wrapped up with a boyfriend when she was 16. And that's, I think when we started noticing some of the exceptions, she had two phones,

one that she would use to communicate with him. And he was, um, much older than her. He sounds like he's older yeah yeah yep and that's kind of how it all started and then eventually she did move out um when she was 18 um kind of surprised everybody surprised and not surprised we kind of knew it was coming but how old was this guy um he was like 22. So I want to contextualize this for everybody. So when it comes to... Actually, let me back up a little bit.

Because of my experience working with young people and because of people that I'm in a relationship with that I love that I would consider close to me. I do not screw around with cocaine. Okay. That said, I know multiple people who say they only do it a couple times a year,

like just recreationally. And so I can't deny that. I can't pretend that's not true. That's what they say. i can't deny that i can't i can't pretend that's not true that's what they say i can't and i know that we're we're the country's being ravaged by an opioid epidemic but i've seen cocaine and it's younger cheaper sister meth i've seen it just destroy right it just rages fire now here's the catch what i learned over the years was instead of asking somebody why in the world are you using cocaine why in the world are you

drinking to cover up why in the world are you partying why in the world are you whatever i quit asking that question and And I started asking the question, what happened in your life that made being you so painful that you had to really go after some heavy stuff to cover it up? Yeah. And she could have had a very loving home, but she was raped and sexually abused from the time she was 16 to 18 years old by a 22-year-old man.

Yeah. You see what I'm saying? Yes. saying yes and i would definitely agree with you except um i don't i mean it was rape of course but she was very much a participant in all of that at the same time lacy i i mean i i definitely am not like absolutely she's a participant i'm standing up for her but yes she's a kid and so i would challenge the notion with all of my heart that she's got a quote-unquote really loving family because a really loving family would have gone to war to keep their daughter from being raped does that make sense yep yep police were involved okay

okay good and um it was her choice she did she did not want any she wanted to just brush it under the rug and um so i mean that's i guess and he had a there was like a restraining order put out against him but um and then she wanted to just move on with her life so that's i think what everybody just did because she was a child well and if That's, I think, what everybody just did because that's what she wanted to do. Well, and if a child shouldn't get that vote, I know that's messy. There can't be any lingering thought in your mind, in your husband's mind, in the family's mind that, well, she was asking for it. She really wanted to hook up with this guy. No, no, we don't think that. That's what you said.

Yeah. Like she was all in. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, this was over a couple of years. And when we found out she was 18. And at that time she was like, I'm moving out. I'm making my own decisions.

What's in the past is in the past. You know, so I mean, and she was like, this is, this is my, the love of my life, you know? So that's what I say when, when she was all in, um, you know, so. I think the but I mean since then like they've split up she's been with other men of course yeah I mean and I just feel like nothing I I don't know what to tell her what to say that we can try to just um and even when we try to have relations I mean we see her all the time she's over her family dinners you know she loves coming around but I just feel like it's very surfacy because even when we just ask her simple things like, oh, what'd you do this weekend? It's a lie.

I mean, there's, I feel like we can't have connection with her because just even the little things are just, we find out later, oh, that wasn't really entirely true. And, and something in her body says that none of y'all are safe. None of y'all are trustworthy. None of you will still love me if you really knew. Yeah. And so I've got to escape with drugs. I've got to keep everybody in arm's length with dishonesty even as wild as it gets because from 16 to 18 these two people who said they love me

love me love me love me had no idea that i was being abused nobody came and got me. And that sounds unfair. And it sounds, how are we supposed to know? We had five other kids and blah, blah, blah. Nobody came and got her. And she's going to be chasing somebody. Tell me that I'm worth being loved. That I've got value because the two people are supposed to come rescue me.

Didn't show up. Yeah. And it's easy to be like, well, she keeps hooking up with so-and-so and she keeps ended up with another man. Another man, her body is desperately seeking somebody to say, I see all of you and I love you. Yeah.

And, um, the sucky thing about cocaine is it works. It makes you, it lights up your brain like a, like a Christmas tree and you can work better and faster than people. And it works until it kills you. Yeah.

Right. And so you are right on. If you sit down and try to have some Kumbaya conversation, it's not going to go very well. Or some sort of after school special conversation. Yeah. It's not going to go well. The conversation to be had is a private conversation, probably with her brother.

Probably with mom and dad. Maybe with you. And somebody say, I with you, and somebody say, I'm so, so sorry. And I love you, and I love you, and I love you, and you're always welcome here. Yep, we can do that. More information is not going to solve this problem.

It's not a data issue. It's a connectivity issue. And she is a young, beautiful soul desperately searching for somebody to say you're enough. Yeah. Is this ringing true? Yeah, no, I think so. I mean, I don't know. It's hard.

It's hard. That specific language was ever said when we all find out, found out, because at the time it was just a whirlwind of what? Like, we're just finding this out. She's moving out. You know, we're finding the second phone. We're finding all these things. And at the time she didn't want to hear any of that. You know, she was just like, I'm on to my new man.

You know, I found this guy. And so I don't know that we ever had the opportunity. What a great rapist and a great child molester will do is make a child feel like they can't breathe without them. Yeah. And they get so intertwined with shame and purpose and worth. And somebody exciting and new and sexy and with their own job and car, whatever. Becomes so magnetic. That just going home and sitting down for dinner with the family. It's like me getting mad at my daughter when I leave jelly beans everywhere. She's seven.

That's on me. Right. You know what I mean? I expect her to want to eat jelly beans until she can't fit another jelly bean inside of her tiny little body i expect that it's up to me to say hey this isn't safe this isn't healthy this is gonna make you sick that's my job i'm dead and so yes it's easy when you find an 18 year old or a 19 year old to say oh my gosh you didn't follow our family rules you deceived us you lied to us you had another phone you've been sneaking out for years I totally get that yeah and that's the that response is catastrophic

the response should be God help us we missed it and I'm so sorry we should have been there for you and we weren't yeah we understand that you got a second phone and that you did this And that you can tell everybody in the world as a 16 year old you wanted this and you wanted to do this and blah I don't you don't get that vote when you're 16 because you're a child. We missed it. I'm sorry You're please come home

Yeah, does that make sense So the whole family is going to have to be in on. That's not true. That's not true because there's going to be parents who cannot they cannot take ownership in these kind of moments. They just can't. I've seen it my whole career.

Parents who just can't internalize that they have any role to play in something like this. And brothers and sisters who say hey man she made her choices and people who look at her and say dude she was she was a flirt she was always dressing this way and say stupid hateful hard things like that and the reality is i always want to go back to that 16 year old girl that needed somebody to step in and they didn't. So at some point, someone's got to step in now.

And that might be you. That might be you. That might be you looking at her and saying, listen to me very carefully. I know that your parents should have stepped in and they didn't. We all should have stepped in and we didn't. And I'm sorry, I was wrong. Yeah. And I love you. Yeah, no, I can definitely say that. Um,

and maybe, maybe big brother too. Yeah. Yeah. I felt, I feel like I don't want to paint them in a bad light because they definitely were, I mean, it was a mix 50, 50 of, um, oh my gosh, what's going on. And we love you. Please don't do this. You know what I mean? So I definitely don't think that that conversation wasn't, it was had, but at that point, I think

she was already kind of too far gone at that point to listen but i'm hoping maybe now um now that he's out of the picture and you know some years have passed maybe we can sit down and have that conversation maybe instead of her of looking at her like she's too far gone maybe looking at her like, oh, her body got the message loud and clear. No one was going to pay attention. Yeah. And so she went with the person that paid attention. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I didn't mean like too far gone.

Like she's, you know, like I'm superior or any of that. I just meant she was very invested into that relationship. Absolutely. And I wouldn't think anything less And I wouldn't think anything less. I wouldn't think anything less. I'm imagining myself as a 16-year-old. And if some beautiful 22-year-old woman had come and started showing interest in me and telling me that I was wonderful, it would be ludicrous for me not to be swooned by that. That's why we have laws and people and adults and all that stuff

and so i i can't i can't overstate how big of a miss this was and i can't overstate that not using the words sexual assault and rape, not using those words is a disservice to what happened. And I can't overestimate how this, her healing will not happen outside of relationship. And at some point she's going to find them. My hope is that they come from a place that they are with people who love her

and have her best interest and not who are just interested in making sure the family looks good and not keeping up the big loving and we're all everything's wonderful and all that kind of stuff I hope it's from people who take a knee and say,

we missed it in our own house. I'm sorry. Man. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out

or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right.

Hey, we're back. I had to take a minute after that last call. That was hard the children in our lives can be whether they're four or seven or sixteen and I'll go as far as say eighteen twenty one I know they're quote unquote adults but

the kids in our lives need adults to love them and to step in on their behalf and to pay attention and to get involved and when the time comes go to war and when you see your kid when the time comes, go to war. When you see your kid lying all the time, when you see your kid

slipping into drug use, you see your kid running to other people for affirmation, before you blame the child, just ask yourself, behavior is a language. What are they trying to tell me?

What are they missing here? This isn't to shame parents or to blame parents or blah, blah, blah. But I am saying this, parents. You got to get involved. If your kid's being abused, if your kid's being assaulted, your silence tells them all they need to know about their worth and value.

Or the fact that you don't even know what's going on. Get involved. And normally we end every show with a song or song lyrics and I it didn't feel right today but I had

somebody write in one time and it was during a similar child abuse call and I got upset and walked off set and there was no song. The show just ended. This is maybe a year or two ago. And he wrote in and said something poignant.

He said, hey, when you don't do song lyrics at the end, it leaves me untethered. As a listener, I just find myself in the car trying to put the pieces back together after some of these tough calls. And so I've never missed one since. And so not as a disrespect to this young woman who was left to fend for herself as a 16-year-old, but as a sign of respect and honor for the listener. This is a hard show. This is a hard show. Today's song is by Grace Potter. And the song is called Release.

I know that I cause pain. I know that you can't let me go. Crying in the midnight rain, waiting on a miracle. I release you, though it's hard to say the words, and I release you from holding onto the bridge I burned.

I release you from the darkness, from the love that we swore was true. And I hope that someday the sun will shine again and you'll release me too. Even if I'm in your arms, even if you touch my skin, I could never change my heart after being where it's been. I release you from the darkness,

from the love that we swore was true. And I hope that someday the sun will shine again and you'll release me too. I love you guys. We'll see you soon.