The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband Spent $80,000 on Porn

Episode Date: March 18, 2024

On this episode, we hear about: -       A woman struggling to move forward after a divorce -       A man trying to navigate a disagreement with his fiancée -       A woman questioning if she should marry her fiancé Offers From Today's Sponsors 10% off your first month of Therapy at Better Help!   3 Free Months of Hallow  25% Off Thorne Orders  15% off the Apollo Wearables Up to $400 in savings on an Eight Sleep bundle!  20% off Organifi with code: DELONY Next Steps 📞 Ask John a Question!  click here! 📚 Get Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Take the Anxiety Test  📚Own Your Past, Change Your Future  ❓Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭John's Free Guided Meditation ❤️ Money & Marriage Event: http://ramseysolutions.com/getaway Listen to More From Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership    Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. My fiance and I have been together for five years at this point. We're getting married in September. And she has brought up the idea of us sleeping in separate beds going forward. Yes. Yes. Huge fan. You sound like you're not a huge fan.

Yo, yo, what's up? This is John of the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so, so grateful that you're with us. So grateful that you are of all the trillions of podcasts out there, YouTube shows everywhere. Everybody's got one. You picked us and you're in our gang and you're saddling up or you are washing the car or you're vacuuming the house. You're going for a walk, lifting weights, whatever it is you're doing. And you joined us for a conversation about our mental health, our emotional health, our marriages, our, what do we do now after divorce, after somebody cheats on us? What do we do when our kids just won't do

what we want them to do? That's what this show is about. When you're struggling with addiction, when you're struggling with making a hard change, here's what this show, if we distill it all the way down, what are you going to do now? What's the next right step?

And that's what we do here on the show. If you want to be a part of this show, real stuff with real people, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. We take calls and emails from all over planet earth, 1-844-693-3291, or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. Huge, huge shout out. Everybody who's hit the subscribe button or left five-star reviews, thank you so much. We're number one, number two in our category in the world on podcasts.

And it's just amazing. And our YouTube subscriptions are going up. I've got a goal for a million by the end of this year. So please, please, please hit the subscribe button. Makes a huge, huge difference. And just brings joy to my heart, which may not matter to you. But man, it makes me feel better about myself. All right, let's go out to Myrtle Beach.

Fertile Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. And talk to Rebecca. Hey, Rebecca, what's up? Hi, Dr. John. How are we doing? I'm doing okay. Uh-oh, that means not okay. That means not good. Yeah, it kind of does. What's up? So I've been divorced for almost five months, but I'm still struggling to deal with my anger. My ex is a sex addict. She spent $80,000 on cam girls behind my back. And when I

finally caught him, he ghosted me while he was in rehab, even though I wanted to support him in recovery. So the first few months, I thought for a few months, I thought I'd moved on, but I'm still finding myself angry again. And like all I can focus on is how unfair it is that he won our divorce. I lost my home. I don't get to see my son every other week or I have to see my son every other week because he has 50-50 custody. I had to pay off 15K of his credit card debt. I just feel stopped.

My question is like, what do I need to do to move forward with my life and stop being angry all the time? Man, I'm sorry this happened. Thanks. I am too. Yeah, I know, but, and I know it's easy to blow by. But just, if it's okay with you, let me sit here with you for a second. Somebody walked into your world and blew up the whole thing yeah they did and i hate that for you i believe what you're saying and i believe that it's hard to even know what is up and what's down did this catch you completely off guard or

did you know something was shady uh what's going on um you know I thought my ex had some type of mental illness, but it completely caught me off guard. I would have never suspected this was going on. Yeah. How long have y'all been married? We were married for five years and together for almost nine. This is a decade of your life. Yeah, it is.

So when you knew something in your guts, knew something was off with this guy, but you had no idea that he had burned through $80,000 with webcam girls.

And by the way, there's 0% chance that didn't bleed over into real life. Zero. And so who knows what else is going on, right? And that may be

for another phone call, but how much of this have you looked in the mirror and just been disgusted with yourself that you missed it? I think that's definitely something that I'm still struggling with,

is just how do I trust myself moving forward? Yeah. Or let me ask it in a better way. A lot of times when we have anger that we can't seem to shake, it often means that we are connecting that anger to the wrong person place or thing and i'm just wondering i'm just putting it out there you tell me if i'm wrong i'm wondering if the anger isn't so much at this sociopath of a husband who blew your life up i wonder if the anger is with you i wonder if the anger is just with the freaking cosmos. Like, this is just bullcrap.

It's not supposed to happen like this. I did it all right and this is what happened. Yeah, that definitely sounds familiar. I think I struggle with the fact that, like, you know, everything is just so unfair and, um, like, he just, he did all

this and, like, there's no consequences for the actions. And it feels like, yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's consequences. They're not what you want them to be. Cause you want them to be set on fire in public.

Right. Yeah. And there was, he had some significant consequences, but, um, they feel out of proportion, right?

Because you suffered the same consequences. Your whole life got blown up. You only get to see your kid a couple of times a month or a couple of weeks out of a month. You lost your home. You lost money. And you didn't play a role in this. Right. And so I'm going to ask you a scary, scary, frustrating, annoying, maddening question.

Okay? Okay. What has your rage, your anger, what has that got you so far? You know, I'd say the first year it got me through the separation period. I mean, I was crying all the time, but like that anger kind of was the fuel to like, help me get up in the morning and go to work. Um, it, like I was able to buy a new house. Um,

I was able to move into my new house, like within a month. Um, so like it, it's helped. I don't think that's anger. I think that's your like it it's helped. I don't think that's anger. I think that's your character.

That's also possible. I think I think that's who you are. I think in fact that anger may have acted as an anchor to the things you were already going to do anyway.

No, that's true. I don't really know what it's gotten me to be honest. I'll tell you basically nothing. Basically nothing. know what it's gotten me i'll tell you on it basically nothing basically nothing if anything it's held you down is it right no question i mean i i'm just i'm i'm angry for you and we just met via telephone right i am i'm i can feel it in my chest that i would love to sit down and have a conversation with this guy. Not in some flexy, like, yeah, not that, but I'm enraged on your behalf.

And that won't help me be a better dad today or husband or better at my job, right? It's simply going to impede. It's going to point me in some directions, maybe, towards things I care about. So I'll ask you an even more frustrating and maddening question. What are you going to do now? Yeah, I don't know the answer to that. I want to move forward. Do you want to move forward or do you want to want to move forward?

I truly want to move forward. I really do. Because if you do, here's what that's going to mean. It's going to mean letting go. And when you let go, your body's going to feel like he's getting off scot-free. Because there's this illusion that when I wake up every day angry, that somehow he feels my punishment.

And Rebecca, he doesn't. Not one ounce of it. You've heard that statement. Being angry this long out is like drinking poison and hoping he dies. Yeah. That's you every day and so the true flex for you I think is to

stand up as tall as you can and say this person will not hitch a ride on my soul for another second period but you have to be willing to let him go second. Period.

But you have to be willing to let him go. Why haven't you been able to let him go yet? What is hanging on to him and this story and this narrative and it's not fair? What is that getting you? It's serving some sort of purpose. Otherwise, you would have moved on. What's that getting you? Yeah, I mean, I think like you said, it's definitely getting you? Yeah. I mean, I think, like you said, it's

definitely not getting me anything. I think I just keep on focusing on like the house aspect of it. Like he got to keep the house. So yeah. Um, so I have a house now. Yeah. You got a place. It's not, it's not even about that. Here's what I think it is. there's an illusion that if we keep thinking about and dwelling on and replaying and replaying and replaying things that we think are unfair that it will somehow help us in the future avoid unfair things happening and i hate to break your heart on this one, but it's simply not true. To be a person means walking down a street where a drunk driver might hit you. To be a person means walking into an office building and somebody else might be sick and you get sick.

To be a person means looking somebody in the eye and holding their hands and saying, I do till death do us part. And they say it back to you, but they don't really mean it. Mm-hmm. Or somebody hurting your child. And I got two. Just even saying that makes me feel sick inside, right? Mm-hmm. But there's some sort of illusion that if we keep replaying what happened, it'll never happen again.

And that's just, it's not. Brene Brown calls it dress rehearsing tragedy. And what I want to suggest is the greatest way to move forward is to open your hands. Let this clown go. And then begin to forgive yourself. And begin to become the person you want to be after this. Because anything else is a choice to continue to sit in that sewage water. And I don't want you there as my friend.

I don't want you there as a mom. I don't want you there as someone who's going to meet somebody else someday and risk another romantic relationship. Although right now you're like, you know what? You can forget that, right? Well, I'm already in another relationship. Of course you are. That's probably for another podcast. There you go. That makes sense. That can only be super healthy with this tightly as you're

holding onto the old one. So what does it look like to write him a, I release you letter, never send it. But in this letter you walk through, here's what you did to my life. And here's what you've continued. I've continued to allow you to do. And that ends today. And if you write this letter correctly, what you've continued. I've continued to allow you to do, and that ends today. And if you write this letter correctly, what you're going to do is you're going to begin to shift ownership from a thing he did to a thing you're going to do. And that moves you from a victim position to a empowered position. Because you are a victim. He did this to you. Then the question is, now what?

Now that makes sense. Why does that scare you? Or why does that piss you off? I think I don't know who the person I want to be is. I don't know. Maybe that's why I'm struggling to let go. I need to really focus on who I want to be is. So like, I don't know, maybe that's why I'm not, I'm struggling to let go. I need to like really focus on who I want to be. Who do you want to be?

Tell me. Yeah, I want to be a good mom. Okay. What does that mean? I want to be there for my son and be present and not cry all the time in front of him. Okay. Maybe it's okay that you cry to him. Maybe being present for him and showing up for him is also letting him know that you have feelings too.

And that gives him permission to have feelings someday when he's sad that his dad blew up his whole life also. Mm-hmm. What else? Who else do you want to be? Who else do I want to be? Who else do I want to be? I want to be someone who's happy, who's able to be successful in my career,

someone who is able to have future relationships and have them be healthy in relationships of the past. All right, so if I told told you you know what I really want I want to be good at jujitsu and I want to be good at shooting a basketball

and I want to be good at roofing a house and I don't know how to do any of those things what would you tell me to do learn how to do it that's right just practice

so here's your homework assignment. I want you to write down four or five things that genuinely bring you joy in a day. That could be going for a walk. That could be sunshine in nature. That could be writing letters. That could be hugging your son. Everybody's different. But I want you to write those things down and then I want you to put those on a calendar. Those are things that are non-negotiables. I'm going to do them every day. I want you to make space on your calendar for grief.

And I want you to write that letter to him. I'm going to let it go. Have you heard me talk about the brick exercise? Yeah, I have. Have you tried it? No, it's on my list of things to do. Okay, good. We're going to do that. And we might do it a couple of times. And we're also going to do a gratitude every day for the new things you have. Because it's real easy to see the house that you don't have anymore. It's harder to see the cool house that you bought on your own that you're in right now Right, so we're going to just write a couple of things a day that we're grateful for that's new this new house. Awesome

I would I would do anything for those two weeks with my son back But i'm grateful that I got two weeks to work on myself right now Okay And here's all we're doing. We're just practicing. And when you feel that old anger and that old rage well up in you, we're going to catch it. And we're going to say out loud, stop. He doesn't get to live here anymore. And if we have to sit down and journal it out, we're going to sit down and journal it out. we're going to sit down and journal it out And when you write him a letter by the way, I want you to be specific

I want you to talk about when you discovered it How he lied to you How you you vowed to yourself to stay by him through rehab and he just ghosted you He was so ashamed that he just buried his head and pretended you didn't exist I want you to write all that stuff down let it course through you and be done be done here's a hard truth choosing to carry this moving forward is a choice to be miserable and sometimes that misery feels protective, it's not. To be a person is to risk being hurt physically, emotionally, relationally.

And yet at the end of the day, we keep doing it. We keep showing up because love is worth it and connection is worth it. You need time to heal, try those things and holler back at me. Call anytime. I'm with you every single step of the way. I got to hear about this new relationship sometime as well, so call back soon. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a

therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp.

BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online, and you fill out a short survey, and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. And you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, let's go out to Kyle in Jamestown, North Dakota.

What's up, brother Kyle? Hey, how you doing, Dr. John? It's pretty surreal being able to talk to you. It's surreal talking to you, man. Good to hear from you. What's up, Brother Kyle? Hey, how you doing, Dr. John? It's pretty surreal being able to talk to you. It's surreal talking to you, man. Good to hear from you. What's up, man? Yeah, so I am navigating something that my fiance has brought up, and I'm trying to kind of figure out and kind of wrap my thoughts around it.

So just for some context, my fiance and I have been together for five years at this point. We're getting married in September. And she has brought up the idea of us sleeping in separate beds going forward. Yes. Huge fan. Oh, really? Okay. Only because I got a whole bunch of reasons. But go ahead. Go ahead. Oh, really? Okay.

Only because I got a whole bunch of reasons, but go ahead. Go ahead. You sound like you're not a huge fan. I'm more so just trying to wrap my head around it. So I know from Emily's side of it, it's purely just based on how she sleeps and how I sleep. We've slept in the same bed for a couple of years now. And, you know, we occasionally have like the couple of things of, you know, hogging blankets and, you know, quit touching me with your feet and, you know, stuff like that. And I also know that my fiance sleeps better in certain conditions. Like she likes to sleep with her head elevated. Otherwise she can get bad acid reflux and have a bad night of sleep versus I prefer to, you know, just lay flat. Um, I know that again, that this is purely just based on,

you know, getting a good night's sleep. And I know, uh, you know, it doesn't have anything necessarily to do with anything relationally, but there's a part of me in the back of my head. That's thinking that I'm going to be, you know, losing some intimacy with her, you know, kind of having those like, you know, little moments at the end of the nights where we're catching up in bed. And, you know, a lot of the times, you know, intimacy is, you know, started in those small moments where we're just laying in bed together and just trying to kind of wrap my head around it and just, you know, I don't know if I was overthinking this or, you know, how I should

approach this. Speaker 2 So I, I, I said, I was overthinking this or how I should approach this. I said I'm a huge fan of it. I ran across a study several years ago that couples who sleep apart actually get better sleep. I didn't buy it, so I tried it. It was amazing. It was so amazing. And it is something my wife and I have had to navigate because it works the opposite for her. And it's funny.

She'll say, I need a really good night's sleep. And what that means to me is you got to be in here. Okay. And when I say I need a really like black hole night of sleep, And what that means to me is you got to be in here. Okay. And when I say I need a really like black hole night of sleep, usually that means I need to be by myself because I'm a real light sleeper. And so for us, it's been just navigating, trying to get into a rhythm. Now, I got this new eight sleep device, which has been magic. A lot of my challenges is I get real hot. And so I like things sub-Arctic and my wife likes to sleep in lava. And so it's

been tough navigating. Her side of the bed has stacks of blankets and mine has a sheet of notebook paper on it. And so having this eight sleep, she can warm her side and I can cool my side. But again, it's been a negotiation. the question i have for you is beneath that this sounds like you've got a fear that if you're not um put i'm gonna say this and it's kind of inflammatory but i don't mean it that way i'm smiling right now so just know i'm playing but like okay that y'all if you're not put in the same cage every night, there's going to be no sex. And if you're not putting the same cage every night or the same box every night, then you're going to miss out on things. That's what I want to like, get a, take a pulse on.

What's your fear there? Sure. And I think there's some part of me that, you know, you know, I think that's definitely part of it. Um, I think personally for myself, the bigger part of that. So if we were looking at the five love languages, you know, I'm definitely someone that say I really appreciate physical touch, you know, long hugs and just being in the same room as my fiance and just enjoying her company. And right now I'm in a position at work where, you know, we're saving up for the upcoming wedding. And then we also have other expenses coming up where, you know, I'm essentially up and out the door at 7.30 and coming back at 9.00 PM. This is it. This is it. This is it. This is exactly what I was hoping you would go to. Okay. Exactly. The bed, that 30 minutes or that hour or that sleep time has become your only source of oxygen when it comes to communication and connection. It's the only place you tune in and talk to each other. have a chance for what i call accidental intimacy where you brush her leg or she touches your arm and that leads to a thing which leads to a thing right yep and that means we're not being intentional in other areas of our life okay and sometimes putting all the pressure on this one

geographical location in this one moment, this one instance, puts a ton of pressure when somebody's just saying, dude, I can't sleep, right? Or this happens especially in houses where people have sleep apnea or they snore. And I've talked to spouses who just are in misery, but they think there's somehow their marriage is worth less or they're not intimate or they're not a good spouse or a good partner because they want to sleep

somewhere else, anywhere except where there's guys, this guy or this woman has a lawnmower going in the bed, right? Right. With snoring. And that was kind of the big thing of it too, is that, you know, we're just going to be starting the rest of our lives with each other. And, you know, we're starting off at this point and I was kind of wrapping my head around it being like you had mentioned that, that safe space. And, you know, what is, what does it say about, you know,

our marriage? If, you know, my, uh, you know, siblings or anybody else, you know else learns that, hey, we're sleeping in separate beds. Who gives a big box of farts with a pony on a stick, brother? I could care less what my brother and sister and my in-laws think about my sleeping arrangements. They don't get a vote on that. It's going to be what works

for me and my wife. It's got to be what works for you and your wife. I'll tell you, it's a huge red flag for for me and my wife. It's going to gotta be what works for you and your wife. And I'll tell you, it's a huge red flag for me. If you're walking into your marriage already with your head on a swivel, asking yourself, what are other people going to think about the arrangement we've made? Already you got a problem because you've got other voices speaking into what

y'all two need. Already you have a problem. If the only intimacy happens when you have a problem. If the only intimacy happens. When you have a captive audience. I mean when you've got a trapped audience. And so I think a bigger question for me. Is backing out. Is.

When do we just sit down and enjoy each other? Do we put intimacy on the calendar? Is that going to be part. We get married. Are we going to have a planning meeting every week. Where we put sex on the calendar? Is that going to be part, we get married, are we going to have a planning meeting every week where we put sex on the calendar? Or is it just off limits? Or, and this is a scary question for someone who's been with someone they love

for five years and they're engaged and they got a wedding on the calendar is, is this the latest in a series of, oh, this is just the way this is going to be? And that to me is a much scarier question to ask. What do you think? You know, thinking it over and really just, you know, evaluating my relationship with Emily in those off times where we're, you know, not in the same bed with each other. I mean, we enjoy, you know, each other's company and we, you know, go on regular date nights and we, you know, I, you know, obviously think that we have a really great

relationship in every other regard. It was just the, you know, one of the things where something that I was looking forward to towards the end of the night, being, again, just continuing to spend that time with each other is all of a sudden just a sudden shift, I guess. Right. I get that. And I think, man, this is a terrible word to use, but it's the only one that comes to mind. I think that's something that might be negotiated down the road as we move into this.

Like, some nights I need you. Now, let's stay away from that language. Some nights I really want to be with you. If you get into the need language, then it turns very maternal very quick. And then it gets, it just, it messes up the dynamic. But I really want to be with you. Cool. That's going to be with you. Cool. That's going to be our baseline.

Maybe the default is, of course, we're going to sleep in the same bed. And maybe once or twice or a couple nights a week, she's going to look at you and say, hey, I really want a good night's sleep. And you're going to say, cool, we've got a guest room. That's awesome. And I don't think that, I see nothing that suggests that means your relationship is inherently bad. Or it's somehow less than or somehow dysfunctional. Okay.

And, you know, not to, you know, bring up anyone else anyone else's you know problems or anything like that because like i had mentioned before like i really don't see any issues with her i mean every couple has you know something you know whether it's arguments about this and that or you know something like that but i think my marriage is perfect mine's perfect. Oh, yours is perfect. Not even close because my wife married a moron. Okay, go ahead. So maybe part of that. So I grew up around parents that did not have a good relationship. And I've been around a lot of family members that have not had good relationships.

And one of the commonalities between the two was the, uh, you know, the couple sleeping in separate beds. And I know that, you know, there's multiple reasons for, you know, couples doing that. I just wanted to, I guess, reevaluate everything because, you know, looking from the inside, you know, I think that everything is, you know, great coming into it, but then I have like in the back of my head, like, oh, okay. Think about, you know, this couple and how they're doing. And I guess it's just been kind of messing with me a little bit. Man, I think your, I think your inclination's right. I think your body sees a couple sleeping in a separate room and instantly puts an alarm and sounds an alarm that they're not okay. And if you haven't sat down and explained that to your fiance, I think that's worth putting on the table.

Hey, I have a visceral reaction because this couple was awful and I don't want to live that life. And this couple over here, they were brutal to each other. They didn't make it. And one of the things they shared in common was that they slept in separate rooms. So if sleeping in separate rooms on life is going to look like. Not just running a script on it. down and have this conversation she says i feel like i can't sleep because i have this vampire on me who needs my energy in order to function maybe that's it or maybe it's as benign as no i just am like that dude on uh not she's got mail on sleep is in And he just like, oh, he's got snot coming out his nose. He has to sleep all weird.

And he just makes weird noises. And like, you know what I mean? Maybe it's just that. Maybe it's just simple as that. Something in my guts tells me it's deeper than that, Kyle. Am I overthinking it? Am I overreaching here? Because it feels like there's something else.

I mean, not that I can really think of. And maybe that's something where if that conversation does lead down to something that I'm familiar with, that's worth exploring. But at least from my perspective, I don't see anything in that regard okay um here's something else I want you to be honest about this might be a deal breaker for you okay and I don't want you to cash that out

because equally the way that sleeping by myself sometimes is life-giving to me. I would find myself very separate from my wife. We would have two different lives if we made it a life, if we lived like this all the time, which I would not recommend. And so, and

also equally, another couple might be listening to this and say i i i won't live like that i want to have the person i'm married to in my bed with me period end of story and so i think everybody has to answer that question for what's going to make them their bodies go I'm home and if it's just man I can't do it I can't look at I can't look into the future 25 years and see that five nights out of seven we're sleeping in different rooms that doesn't feel like marriage to me that feels like roommates to me I'm not I don't want to be a part of that I think you got to put that on the table and then hopefully y'all can figure out okay what is it about actual actually sleeping together in this same bed?

That is the problem. Let's try to drill in. Do you need a CPAP? Do you need one of those Tempur-Pedic beds that, you know, one's up, one's down, like what do we need?

And let's figure that out. Does that sound fair? Yeah, absolutely. That sounds fair. Okay. I think the... It's easy in these kind of situations, and I'm glad you're asking this question because it's easy when we have...

When we... When we kind of feel like we're buttonheads. It's easy to feel like we're buttonheads over a thing. Over the mechanics of a thing occasionally that's true but often there's something deeper here often there's something going on underneath I've watched couples fall apart

and this was the common denominator for them or as a kid this is what it looked like the common denominator was hey i only feel safe when you're in the bed with me hey i know you don't sleep what do we need to do we need to get a king-size bed do we need to get a new bed frame that doesn't squeak so much do we need to what do we need to do because i need this to be part of our life or i just need a few nights a week by myself and i think it's the constant coming back to the table and saying here's what i want here's what i need constantly coming back to the table back to the table back to the table and then being willing to open our hands and say here's what i'm willing to budge on and here's what i'm not willing to budge on.

And then if there are some things that we are not willing to budge on, exhaling deeply and being adults and asking ourselves a scary hard question, well, what do we do now? But I think there's a deeper conversation here, Kyle, that I'd love you and your fiance to explore. What does intimacy look like outside of this room?

What does laughter and connection look like inside this room, outside this room? Where do we make time for each other to just be? And why is sharing a bed so important? Or why is you getting out so important? Let's put those things on the table. And chances are the actual sleeping arrangements will solve themselves. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. All right, we're back. Let's go to Columbus, Ohio and talk to Katie. Hey, Katie, what's up? Hi, Dr. Delaney. What's up? Oh, you know, just living the life. How are you? Living la vida loca. What's up? Thank you so much for talking to me. I really appreciate it. Of course.

So I have been engaged to my fiance for about two years now. We've been together for six. What's taking so long, Katie? A couple of things. That's why you're calling. My bad. My bad. Yeah, just a couple of things. That's why you're calling my bad, my bad. Yeah. Just a couple of things,

probably the most recent and probably the biggest issue is, uh, uh, almost exactly a year ago, he cheated on me, not necessarily physically, but he was talking with, um, an old female friend that, um, about, you know, like exploring their relationship and it'd be great to see where things went with them. And, um, I found out about it. Um, and he, uh, he brought up, I mean, I, I went to therapy and, um, sort of dealt with it. And I think that I haven't dealt with it. It's still right here, right between us. I know. But so he, he wants,

he, he brought up getting married in November of just his last year. And that was only like eight months after it really had, I can't do math. Um, eight months after everything had really happened. And he sort of been pushing, like,

you know, do you ever want to get married? Is this something that you're thinking about? And I, I, I just just recently like two days ago said I'm still not over it like I can't just forget that you you broke something that I never thought I would ever have to worry about with you like I I mean you you broke every every sort of imaginable trust that I had with you. Why haven't you just called it yet? Because you're done.

I can hear it. You're done. Why are you still hanging on? A couple of reasons. I moved across the country for him. Your dignity and respect is worth more than that. Keep going. And I know I sound like your big brother, but you're worth more than that keep going um and i know i sound like your big brother but like no you're

worth more than that so keep going um i do love him i mean okay i there's there's there are people there are multiple people that i love i'm married to one person yeah i know who's my ride or die right right there's people i dated seriously for a long time and they're great people and they've gone on to have great lives and great husbands and great families they went right for me and vice versa i wasn't right for them those aren't mutually exclusive but here's the thing you're choosing to remain right in the middle of the road you're choosing to not put this thing like to set this thing down and build something new with him and do the hard work of regaining trust and relearning trust and reimagining your relationship together as one that yeah y'all

could hurt each other if you wanted to but you're're not going to. Or just being done with that. You're just standing in the middle of the road. In limbo. And you're making yourself crazy. I mean, but he keeps asking me, how long does this last for? Like, how long are you going to hold on to this? But that tells me you haven't given him a map to reestablish trust. You've just said I'm mad. If I did give him...

I'm mad. If I gave him the map, yes, I am mad and furious. But I tried giving him the map and he sort of pushed back that it was... That's what you haven't dealt with. That's what you haven't dealt with. ...too challenging. No, you know, he didn't get to do that. You hold the cards.

He violated your trust. And by the way, there's emotional affairs. There's people. And by the way, somebody called me out on this social media the other day just to put it out there. I say things like, you know, things happen at work. I'm not saying they're okay. I'm not saying they're right. I'm saying they don't surprise me at all.

That's what I'm saying. So there's emotional affairs. There's people who get to be really great friends. And then it's like, man, I really like, I have a funny joke. And the first person I think of is them. And it kind of keeps escalating and escalating. And then there's making plans. Like, let's see where this thing goes. Because I'm starting to picture a future with you. Right? Right.

And then there's physical intimacy, right? Which I categorized totally differently. Not everybody does, but it's different for me. Then there's financial infidelity. There's all kinds of things. But this is a getting back with an old girlfriend. Just figure out if there might be some things there and where this thing might lead, right? Mm-hmm.

You get to decide, if I'm in this relationship, if I'm going to stay in it, here's what must be true. And you did that. And he looked at you and goes, yeah, I'm not doing that. And you backed down. Mm-hmm. Why? I felt like I was asking for too much.

I didn't want to be the typical cheated on girl who's like, well, now he can't have any freedom at all. And he lost everything. So you became the other typical cheated on girl who just takes everything that she feels and all her intuition and just shoves it down in a bucket and buries it in the yard. Right? Right. Yes. Correct. Not helpful either. I know.

I don't want to be that girl. I know you don't. I know. But then can I backtrack and say, okay, now I want, these are the guidelines or this is what I need. Well, are you going to follow them? Am I allowed to do that? If you say here are the guidelines, are you going to follow them? I wouldn't recommend that.

But at any time in a relationship, anybody can say, I'm unable to fully be with you right now. I'm choosing to not be with you because you hurt me so bad previously. The way forward for me to be able to feel safe with you is A, B, C, and D. Your move. There's not a statute of limitations on betrayal. There's not a statute of limitations on hurt and pain. What you have to decide is, I want to be with this person.

Here's what it's going to take for that to be possible. And I got to put this on the table and ask if they're in. I think you're scared to do that because you might say no. And then you're back to, well, I moved across the country for this person. We've been together for six freaking years. All this lost time, all this lost fill in the blank, fill in the blank, fill in the blank. And probably some people in your life told you you probably shouldn't do this and you did it anyway. And so now you've got all that too, right?

Correct. Not that I've done this before. So now you have this shame, this embarrassment, this tuck your tail, and you think so little of Katie that you're just going to bury you and let all those other voices tell you how you're going to live your life. And that's a recipe for anxiousness, for depression, for all sorts of a cascade of maladies. And I love you enough to tell you this is your life. You can do what you want. You can go marry him tomorrow. But something in my gut tells me you're done. And you don't really have a vision for what comes next.

You just know it can't be that, and that's a scary place to find yourself. It's out in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, it's your stand in the middle of the road. Just stand there. Have you all taken a 30-day break? Not exactly. We took like a week right after it happened y'all live together yes okay i might consider a like a 30-day break and we'll put it in the show notes you can google it's the

it's terry reels 10 rules of separation there's There's some reasons behind it. Your anger is making it hard to see what a next step would be. And I want to put your body in a position where you can exhale. And you might exhale and go, and then once the smoke begins to clear, you realize, no, this is worth fighting for. This is worth saving. Or you might exhale and go, this dude sucks.

Right? It just feels like you're so shrouded in anger. It's hard to move. And now you got this guy going, marry me, marry me, marry me. And part of you is like, what took you so long? And the other part of you is like, I would rather set my self on fire in a parking lot than marry you.

It's sort of hard to commit to something like marriage when the person that you thought you were going to marry wasn't committed to you. And so it's sort of a rock and a hard place. It very much is. And I'm going to say something that doesn't make a lot of sense and it's going to make people uncomfortable with me, and that's okay. I think he was first and foremost uncommitted to himself, who he said he was going to be.

And my guess is he's created a world for himself where he got real, real comfortable and real, real lazy and real, real blech. And this ex made him feel alive. So one of them texted each other as a funny joke or to, hey, I saw this meme, I heard this song. And all of a sudden,

his heart started beating a little faster. Maybe I'm wrong. No, you hit the nail on the head. I think he didn't like him. I don't think that had to do with him not liking you. I think you were just part of his comfortable, ho-hum life. I also think I make it easy for him. That's right.

There you go. He doesn't have to worry about me, you know. Well, it's not that you want him to worry about like, is she cheating on me? You don't want that. Right. No, of course not. No. But have y'all created a world where y'all desire each other?

Where you both feel alive in each other's presence, where there is, there is blood pumping through those veins. Yeah. Or is there another night at Netflix, another night at Netflix, another night at Netflix and then let's go to bed. We'll get married later.

We'll eat later. We'll work out later. We'll get married later. We'll eat later. We'll work out later. We'll get promotions later. We'll do all this stuff later. And then you wake up and you've been in Cincinnati, Ohio or Columbus, Ohio for 25 years. That's what I'm afraid of.

That's what's happening right now. Yeah. And so someone like who does infinitely more like loads more work working directly with couples

who have experienced infidelity I'm not at a place where I can say it just from experience but she does it way more than me and so where

Esther Perel will say something like this could be the greatest thing that ever happened to your relationship because he got up to the edge and he peered way over and almost fell off

and together you both said no no this thing is worth dying on a hill for what must be true for us to move forward because we got to build something totally new and if you wake up in 10 years and y'all have nine years of marriage underneath your belt and y'all are best friends and you got two knucklehead little kids running around or whatever you're doing, almost falling off the edge could be the catalyst for a great thing. Or it could be that he got up to the edge and almost fell off the edge and you thought to yourself, I don't think I would have cared if he fell. What does that say about the state of our relationship? Because you might be dead inside too. There's a meme that goes around that doesn't have a ton of science to it,

but it sounds right to me sometimes. And it's that I sat down, I'm paraphrasing it, but I sat down with my anger. And I found it was a long lost friend grief. What I thought I was so mad about and enraged about was actually me just being freaking sad. This whole thing was supposed to play out different. It didn't.

And here we are. What do you think? I definitely have anger and grief and all of those things. I know I have all of those things. I know I have all of those things because it's so easy to become obsessed about it. Yes. I mean, even like, I mean, I think about it multiple times a week. All right. So I'm going to ask you something I asked an earlier caller in this episode. What is that getting you? What is that accomplishing for you? It reminds me of why I'm not married to him.

Okay, I don't think it does. Here's what I think it does. I'll cut to it because we've been talking for a while. I think it's your body's way of rehearsing and rehearsing and rehearsing and rehearsing what happened, going back over it, going back over it, with this idea that that will help it not happen again in the future. And I hate to be the harbinger of bad news,

but if you love somebody and you marry them, they can cheat on you. And there's not a way around that. All relationship is a risk. Work relationships, romantic relationships, parent-child relationships, it's all a risk and it's scary. And by staying angry, by constantly going back and going back and going back and going back to it,

wondering about it and wondering about it, having all those imaginary conversations where you tell his old ex-girlfriend what you really think and if you go tell him what... All of that is your body trying to create a war plan for when this happens again

so that it never happens. And it's a waste of effort and time. It doesn't protect you from anything. All it does is burn a hole in the life you're trying to live right now. Okay. I've taken some heat for saying it this directly, but this constant is just a waste of your time. It's not getting you away from him. It's not getting you closer to him.

It's not rebuilding your relationship. It's not solving the crisis that is in your relationship right now. It's just walking around setting fires to things just to watch them burn. And that's why I say if you're taking a break for 30 days

saying, hey, I'm going to go stay in a hotel for 30 days or I want you to go stay with a friend for 30 days. I just need to clear my head and decide are we going to move forward? Are you serious? You're still not over this? No, I'm not. But I will be soon.

I'll have a path soon. But I think it's fair to say what we had is now gone. What I'm trying to decide is, do I have it in me to build something completely new? And if I do, what will that look like? And that's the sort of language I want you to use. It's architectural. But until you tell me otherwise, I just don't see it.

I don't feel it. Yeah. I feel like you're done. Is he worth fighting for? Is this whole thing worth fighting for? I think so. I want it to be. Okay.

Then I think a really important exercise is sometime today, swing by a Walgreens or a Barnes & Noble or something and pick up a blank journal and just write at the top on the first page. If so, then what must be true? I have. I just got a journal actually. There you go. If so, then what must be true? What do we want our home to feel like?

What must be true? Let's build that. And here's the scary sucky part. He can look at you and say, I'm not doing that. I like things just the way they are. And now you're off the cliff. You're into deep sadness and grief.

But he might say, I'm all in. I'm all in. I'm all in. I'm all in. Ugh, hate this for you. Hate it, hate it, hate it. Let me know how those conversations go. And it would mean a lot if you come back one day on the show and just read us.

What did you write? If this is what it's going to take, what'd you write? Because I think your roadmap would help countless other people. Katie, thank you so, so much for the call. Stay with us. We've got a social post I've got to unpack when we come back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here.

I am just super excited to announce I'm hitting the road with my buddy Dave Ramsey this spring on a brand new tour. Just us two. And we're putting a new twist on this thing. We're going to talk about money. We're going to talk about relationships. And we're going to tell stories y'all have never heard before. It's going to talk about money. We're going to talk about relationships. And we're going to tell stories y'all have never heard before.

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Alright, we're back, Kelly. So what did I put on the internets now? Alright. Your brain craves familiar, and your brain is always making predictions. So when you change your life, leave an abusive relationship, start therapy, set new relational boundaries, etc., your brain might revolt.

Discomfort, rumination, anxiety. This happens, but it doesn't mean quit. New thoughts and new actions soon become the new familiar and your brain changes with you. Yeah, the nerd word is homeostasis. And we often wonder like, I lost 50 pounds. Why am I starting to gain it back? Or I just left this abusive relationship. Why do I keep thinking about this guy? Or this girl cheated on me. Why do I keep thinking about this guy? Or this girl cheated on me. Why do I keep wondering like how I can,

because our bodies crave what they know. It's why people grow up in abusive households and they marry abusive people. They grow up in the home of people who struggle with alcoholism and they marry somebody who works 140 hours a week our bodies crave what's familiar and we often think our bodies will just do what's good for us they won't their bodies will do what they know and this is neuroscience this is physiology just does what it knows and so when you're changing something, whether it's relational dynamics, whether it is habits, whether it's weight loss, whether it's nutrition, there is a heavy period of discomfort.

It feels like your body's going to war with you. And you feel like you're fighting everybody and everything, most frustrating you're fighting yourself and it's getting on the other side of that war when your body begins to learn a new normal this is the way this is going to be but man that's hard to get to kelly it's so hard and this also happens relationally when you go go lose 50 pounds, your husband or wife, their life is now different. You've changed it, and they want their life back. Even though you're healthier, you're sexier, you're more fun, they want what they know. Their bodies crave what they know. Or somebody gets a new job, and suddenly you're making a bunch of money. Yeah, but our roles were you're at home upset and complaining all the time, and I solve that.

And I don't have a roadmap. For now, we have a bunch of money and we're all safe. So it's this, people feel that discomfort. They feel that, like, you start a new diet, you feel great for three days, and it feels awful. And then you go through what I call the wasteland of you're just simply training your body that there's a different way to live and there's going to be a new normal. And then you find yourself five years later removed from your family and you go back and

visit your family and you just feel awful. Everything feels terrible. That's what your normal used to be. And you go, oh my gosh, I just need to get home to my house, to my new world. Ah, now we're on it. But all that to say is when you're going to change something big, just expect it. I got to teach my body that there's a new way that we're going to live. And when your body tries to go back to what it knows, just pat it on the head and say, I get it. Appreciate you trying to take care of us, keep us safe, but we're going But we're going somewhere new now. And your body will make the turn. It will make the turn. For some of us,

it takes longer, but it will make the turn. That's all I have to say about that one. Does that ring true, Kelly? Yeah, I think it's the phrase, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. There you go. I don't think we ever thought that was neuroscience, but it is.

Whatever is comfortable is what our body is going to aim for, even if that comfort is going to kill us. That's why we make hard calls, hard decisions, hard choices, hard changes. It's got to keep at it and keep at it and keep at it and keep at it. And our bodies will come around. Thank you so much. See you soon.