The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband Was Cheating on Me While I Was Pregnant

Episode Date: October 9, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A woman who recently learned her husband is cheating on her - A woman who’s ashamed of her behavior at a funeral - A man whose guilt is holding him back from committing to new relationships To order John's new book Building a Non-Anxious Life click here. To take the anxiety test click here. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm about one month in from discovering that my husband of 11 years was cheating. Ah, man, I'm so sorry. Are there any kids involved? Yeah, there is. We have three daughters. Oh, boy. What is going on?

This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Man, I'm so glad you've joined us. We're talking about your mental and emotional health. We're talking about your marriage, your parenting, your kids, schools, work, whatever you got going on in your life. My promise is I'm going to sit with you, and this show's about real people going through real stuff. I'm going to sit with you, and we're going to figure out what happens next.

What's your next right move in a world gone completely mad? Completely mad. Hey, this is still, I think, is this still the first week? Are we still out? Yeah, it's still a first week. So, um, go pick up your copy. Well, I mean, buy it in 40 weeks if you want to, but go pick up building a non-anxious life right now at johndeloney.com or anywhere books are sold.

We're still in that first week and we're hoping to hit number one on the bestseller list and things are looking great, but go pick up your copy, pick up your copy and forget the stupid bestseller list. I want you to pick up the book because I think your copy and forget the stupid bestseller list. I want you to pick up the book because I think it's a great roadmap for building a non-anxious life. And if you are wondering, like, I don't think I'm anxious or I think I'm super overwhelmed, anxious, and Deloney's always talking about this or this or this, we've got you. We created a 100% free anxiety test. It's not diagnostic. This is not something you take and you're like, I've got such and such anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, some kind of

phobia. Not what it is, but it is, it's a test that will help you identify, oh, here's a couple of areas where I really need to head towards the alarms. My body's trying to get my attention in one of these areas or two of these areas. Or like me, I took it recently. And in a lot of areas, your body's trying to get your attention. And this test really helps kind of point you in the right direction. So go to johndeloney.com slash anxiety test. Is that right? Yeah, slash anxiety test.

And if you come back in the next episode. We all took it. Yeah, we're all taking it. We're going to talk about our results. My results were not great. Mine were actually better than I expected. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

You work with me. So they should be. Mine were worse than I expected because I work with you. Because I have blah, blah, blah. Yes. So, hey, by the way, we don't even ask for your email address on this deal.

This is just a give. This is just us. We don't have any of your info. We don't want any of your info. This is simply giving you a roadmap to, oh, man, it might point in this direction or that. Maybe I need to focus on loneliness. Maybe I need to focus on health and healing, some of these other areas. So check it out, johndeloney.com slash anxiety test.

Totally free gift. Don't even want your email address. Check it out. All right, let's go out to St. Louis, Missouri and talk to Kay Lynn. What's up, Kay Lynn? Hi, Dr. John. What's happening? Oh, your classic catchphrase is partying, so I guess you could say partying. Oh, that means not good at all? No, no. The sun is shining. It's a great day's a great day. Oh no. You've gone to weather to make yourself feel good. It must be really bad. What happened? What's up? Um, well, I'm, I'm currently about,

um, I guess timeframe wise, I'm about one month in from, um, discovering cheating. Um, I'm so sorry. Yeah. And, um, I've, I've got a kind of multi-pronged question here, so just bear with me. Um, but I think the big, biggest thing is just how do I process the grief of that betrayal? Um, how do I cope with the continued dishonesty in the days following? You know, we're, as I said, a month out and there continues to be, you know, lies and inconsistencies and some gaslighting, in my opinion. Are there any kids involved? Yeah, there is. We have three daughters. Oh boy. And unfortunately, he's also a part of a family business with my side of the family,

which makes this a little bit more complicated because there seems to be a little bit more stake involved for other family members. And I'm struggling a little bit with the lack of family support from ones that I had expected it to come from. But ultimately, again, the sun is shining, right? And there's always a new day. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let's don't do that. Let's don't do that. I don't want to just blow past how devastating this is.

And you've added a couple layers. Yeah, there's a lot. Yeah, when we think about cheating, we think about like this very, very intimate personal betrayal. Right. But we often don't realize until it's upon us that our whole world has exploded down to who makes, who makes lunches for the kids and who's going to drive them.

And how do we switch off to, in your case, I thought my dad would be on my side on this deal. Or I thought my brother, you know what I mean? So, I mean, for you, you're losing everything, right? Yes, that's what it feels like. So the sun might be shining and I appreciate the sentiment. Right. But it is raining all over your life.

Right. And that's okay. Trying. Well, trying is good, but I don't want you to gloss over it because your body's going to continue to solve for the shenanigans that is everything right now. Yeah. There's a lot of craziness. Yes. Yes.

That's an understatement. What happened in your marriage? What happened? I don't really know when I've asked him about the why. Um, I mean, because initially in the first week, that was just why, you know, my only thought was just why, why, why, why this over us? You know, why did you pick this over and over, over us? Um, you know, and he says it was for excitement. Um, he felt like I didn't want him around anymore. Um, we stopped saying we loved each other, I guess, and is what he said. I don't really feel that, though. I mean, were we in a season of life where we were disconnected? Certainly, we have three young, very, very young kids. You know, and, you know, we were in the day-to-day hustle and the grind, but we were still communicating.

I mean, I guess I couldn't have been more shocked. I felt like he had been living a double life. So you're speaking as though you felt these things in the past tense, and then you got some new information to realize, oh, he wasn't living a double life. You were just a terrible, terrible person to be married to. And all of this makes sense now. I've had a month to process some of it. So I think that's helped me realize that, yeah, you probably were a little shady for a while, for a while since you've been doing this, you know, for quite some time. Um, I believe he was doing it longer than he says, but

I've got no proof of that. And honestly, it probably doesn't matter anyway. It's, it's done now. Did you move out? No. I asked him to give me some time and space while we kind of figured things out. And we are working with a marriage counselor. We do have different goals with that marriage counselor. He wants to try to make it work. I would like to, you know, move past this so that we can, uh, you know, just co-parent effectively and not, you know, traumatize our, our children, um, you know, and be emotionally mature adults. I can't tell if you're in a state of shock or if you have settled because

your, your affect is, is not congruous with the words you're using. Um, well, I probably trying to do the steps that feel right, that I know should, should be, you know, the things that I should do. But I mean, there is a lot of shock, certainly. And I think I'm just trying to process it, you know, day to day. But I'm trying to be the most logical. I mean, that's just my nature. I'm trying to be the most logical. I mean, that's just my nature. I'm type A. I'm kind of a planner anyway. My fear is you have sealed up the pressure relief valves so tight so that you can make what you think in the moment is a rational decision

that you implode or really explode? Have you said out loud, I'm not going to be your wife anymore? You took this from us and so now I'm going to take control of my life moving forward. Have you said those words out loud? No, not to that effect. I mean, not, not that specifically. Um, but I've, I've said, you know, the years I've set boundaries in place for these are the times when you need to be at the house so that you can, the kids need to see you. Obviously, we still need help around the home. We have a very, very little one at home.

He may need to hire that help. Because what he did was he made some choices that are going to have some significant consequences, both because he lost his family and he lost the picture and he lost um the picture he lost he lost everything and it's going to come with some significant financial consequences and and my my fear is in an effort to make everything rational and simple and still you're going to end up getting dragged underwater because things are not still.

The waters, you're in the middle of a hurricane. And so when you're in the middle of a hurricane, often, let me just say it this way. Unless it's something I specifically have trained for. So for instance, if somebody comes running into the office right now and says, so-and-so's on top of the building about to kill themselves, I've trained for that. I know the protocol there. Other than that, like in similar situations, in bonker situations like that, other than that, if somebody was to come hurt my wife, let's say, I will outsource my rational decision-making to an attorney and to the police department and to a couple of close

friends and colleagues that I have high trust in. Because if I don't honor those feelings in that season, my body's going to implode and my kids are going to think I'm insane and they're going to think they're insane. See what I'm saying? Right. It's almost like you're trying to keep everything so cool, so cool, so cool, and everything inside your guts knows this is not cool.

What's happening with his family business? Well, he works with my father. Why hasn't your father thrown him out and fired him immediately? Because it's coming on their busy time of year where it's not, I guess it wouldn't be at his best interest to do that right now. You know what comes before the best interest of my daughter?

Nothing. Right, right. No things. Right, yeah. I hope you sit in how disgusting that is and don't wallpaper over that too. That's the second most important man of your life that's let you down. And I would tell that to his face if he was standing right here.

I don't care how busy, whatever crap season's coming up. Right. I could care less. I agree. I mean, I know that on this, Yes, that's what it looks like. No, no, no, no, no. And it feels like that. That's what it is.

Yeah, I know. What kind of business do they run? Agriculture. They farm together. I just can't imagine. Cannot imagine. My daughter having three baby girls and her husband cheating on her a bunch and then clocking in for work. What's up, man?

Well, John, if you want to feel I guess even more confused, add this to the dynamic. My father's told me that he doesn't believe it was cheating because it was not physical. It was sexting. There was a lot of conversations had over different social media platforms and different apps. Yeah. So in my dad's standpoint, he doesn't agree that it was physical. And when I explained to him that the marriage counselor has validated my

thoughts that yes, it is cheating. Our marriage counselor is a Christian based counselor and actually explained that in the Bible, you know, I don't care if you were seeing, like, an atheist Satanist. Right. They would agree that this is infidelity.

Right. Your moral compass knows better. It is super rare. I don't have any data on this, okay? So, whatever. But it is rare that somebody has multiple engagements with people that start sending photos and there's nothing else. Very rare. And you know that. And I know that.

Right. I mean, it's just, it's dishonest. I mean, the, the, and then that's what I've explained to my father. And, you know, I mean, it's just, it's dishonest. I mean, and that's what I've explained to my father. Your father has cashed out. Your father cashed out. Right. Thank you. He chose his bro over his daughter. Thank you for validating that. That means a lot. I hate that for you. Because when your husband does you wrong,

there should be that one guy left in your corner. And I've never experienced this, but I've just sat with enough sexual assault victims over time that they tell me one of the most important things is when they tell their story finally, that the first person they tell them believes them and one step removed from sexual assault this violation that somebody took something from me the next step is somebody took something from you somebody took your family away because they just need some excitement want to feel alive a little

bit and kaylin you just weren't doing your part. I know you're raising those three babies, but you just, you know, kind of weren't pulling your weight around here. Making me feel special. And you sat down with your dad and he looked at you and said, I don't believe you. I believe that guy. And I've never been in your shoes, but from the narratives I've heard from sitting with countless women in that situation, I'm sorry. The question you have to live with,

I mean, live into is, what are you going to do next? And it sounds like the two men that should have been there for you chose each other and chose deception and chose dishonesty. And by doing so, they chose to no longer be in relationship with you. Mm-hmm.

And that's going to hurt, hurt, hurt, hurt, hurt. It does. And I think my logical brain knows that the only way forward is divorce. I don't see how we can rebuild the trust, the respect. It's possible. You can rebuild it, but you got to tell the truth first. And he's not. So far that hasn't happened. Correct. And, and that's, yeah.

And it's going to be hard. It's going to get harder before it gets any easier. I know that. The lack of family support makes it more challenging. There's no family support. And let's be real, real like brass tacks. Being a single mom with three girls, three little kids is a nightmare. Financially, like just day to day. It's challenging. Yeah. It'll be challenging. Yeah. Yeah. And that, listen to me carefully. You've got to have a group of women that will walk alongside

you during this. I wish that would be your family, but it sounds like it's not. I have some family members that, that will, um, my mom has been really supportive, but that's hard for their marriage because she is still married to my dad. Well,

they're grownups. That's, that's for them to deal with. That's not for you. No, I, yeah, right.

But you also need a couple of women in your life that are not your best buddies. Also, you're 30 days out, and I think a separation is good. I don't think this has to end in divorce. It doesn't have to. It can if you want it to. You're not crazy. But I feel crazy. I know, because the people around you

are gaslighting you so bad, you can't see straight. Yeah. Right? If I send naked pictures to somebody else or vice versa, that's cheating on my wife. Period.

Period. It just is. Just is. Yep. And nobody wants to is. It just is. Yep. And nobody wants to see naked pictures of me. I still put that out there. But if I do that as cheating and anybody tells you otherwise

is just trying to, has ulterior motives. Yep, I agree. I hate this for you. I hate this for you. I hate this for you. I hate this for you. Yep, I agree. You're talking to your mom who trusts you and believes you sounds like you need to get a couple of women that you say Hey, I need to meet with y'all once a week every monday You need to sit down with your analytical brain And be very clear about the financial needs that you need right now in your home And that could include someone to help out with the kids that could include somebody to help out with the kids, that could include somebody to help out with housework and things like that,

and your husband gets to pick up that tab, and you're going to have to explore the really uncomfortable, like everything in your life got dumped over, your life change of going to get a job, going to find work, figuring out what that means and what that looks like and how that's going to work out in your town and all your qualifications, all that. Here's the challenge with an analytical brain, the approach you're taking. There's a challenge with an over-emotional, right? It's just, ah, and it's just hard to even make a rational choice. You've hit the pendulum so far the other way.

The hard part with a rational choice is you don't feel it. And you try to just make sure everything's smooth, which without meaning to, you end up conceding to things for the sake of peace. You keep this peacekeeper role, which you've probably had for a long time. And you just try to get to the next quick second and the next 30 minutes and the next 30 minutes, which is life with three little kids. That's also a mindset. They've studied folks with poverty mindset. They've studied folks with a wealth mindset. Those who can look past tomorrow, that's how you begin to separate yourself financially. And if I'm worried about where my next meal comes from and my next meal comes from,

I'm always just worried about where my next meal's coming from. Not when I start worrying about where my grandkids' meals are gonna come from. And so you're gonna have to get some people with you to help you feel your way through this and not just try to logic your way through it and logic your way through it.

There's gonna be some moments when you have to outsource your logic to an attorney, to a therapist. What do I do next? And they're going to say, you need to have this hard conversation or that hard conversation. And you're going to have to spend some time. Maybe you write yourself letters. Maybe you started journaling. I'd really strongly recommend that actually and make it a daily practice. I'm going to write down how I feel because if you bottle that up like a nuclear reactor, your daughters are going to feel it. You're going to feel it. Everyone around you will feel it. And you're going to be trying to be cool as a cucumber. That's just a recipe for combustion.

And people with a rational analytical mind are always trying to get things back to the way they were. I just need to get things, I need to get this divorce over so that everything can be smooth. I just need to get this over so everything can be smooth. I just need to tell this, have this one conversation and give this dollar amount that I need over so that everything can be smooth. There is no going back to the way things were. Everything's different. Everything's different now. And husband, if you're watching this,

the only chance you have at reconciliation and building something new, is you got to tell the truth. All of it. All of it. Starting now. And dads, if your daughters come to you, believe them.

We'll be right back. All right, we're back. Let's go out to Washington, D.C. and talk to Leigh. What's up, Leigh? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? We're doing great. How about you? I'm doing great. Thank you for taking my call. You got it. What's up?

Okay. So about a week and a half ago, my really good longtime friend lost her sibling tragically in a car accident and they were really close. Also in recent years, another immediate family member of hers, one of her parents, unexpectedly passed away. So her family has kind of been drug through like all the levels of hell that no one should have to go through just in the past couple of years. So last week was the siblings' visitation and funeral. At the funeral, I saw a lot of old friends who we spent a lot of our 20s with, you know, doing the usual 20-something thing. And so we gathered in a group in the back of the visitation room and proceeded to talk, laugh, and carry on about times in our 20s, you know, people's new kids, divorces, work,

all the topics that you would catch up on with someone like more at a bar or out to lunch and i didn't realize until probably 10 minutes in that we were all receiving stares from people in the room it was kind of like we had totally forgotten where we were and that there wasn't an open casket in the front of the room and our friend and her family weren't heavily grieving. Lee, you're the worst. You're the worst friend ever. I'm totally kidding. Well, a child lost a parent and we were kind of carrying on really loudly, obviously not on purpose. But that night I woke up in the middle of the night just feeling super sick to my stomach that I may have actually really hurt my friend and her family. My friend's like the most genuine and kind person I've ever met in my life. In 15 years, she's never said a bad word about anybody. Have you called her?

Well, that's my question. So the next day at the funeral, no one mentioned anything about it but of course my question for you is do I go and apologize to her do I even say anything um I think about it I've been you I've done that exactly what you're talking about and for me it's twofold number one that's how I handle grief as I laugh or I handle that discomfort. Okay. Um, and it's probably just hanging out with first responders too long, but it's a, it's a very blue, dark black sense of humor. The second thing is, um, is I have a picture in my head and I have forever of my funeral. I want everybody laughing their heads off. I even wrote out what I want to happen at my funeral with a couple of friends having to sing certain karaoke songs, just so everyone would

laugh. My wife said, I'm not doing any of that stuff. I'm not doing chores for you and your dad, but that's my picture. And I also have realized over time, that's not everybody else's picture. Right. And so I've been you you what i would do in your situation is are you all in the same town yes okay i would just say hey can i take you to coffee and it's not about absolving yourself you don't want her and her grief to have to take care of you right now but i do think it's a good moment to check in on her. Usually after the funeral, after someone loses, especially a child or a sibling, a close sibling,

it's that 30 days. Sometimes I'll put a star on my calendar, a week out and then 30 days out. And then maybe again, six months out because that's when things get real, real quiet. And you reaching out a week after, two weeks after and saying, hey, can we go get coffee? And you just using that time, how are you? And if it comes up naturally, say, hey, we saw a bunch of old friends. We were being so obnoxious and I'm so sorry.

And that will give her an opportunity to say, yeah, I heard that, you're the worst. Or she'll say, I was so in my black hole that I didn't even realize it. I'm glad y'all got to catch up. Which is, I think, about 95% of people would say the latter. Okay, and I'm glad you mentioned reaching out. And that was kind of my next question is, we had plans to go and do these really fun things for fall and for winter. Do I still invite her out to do it?

Absolutely, yes. My mom said that she's never going to be the same after this. So I'm kind of nervous to have to approach her. She's an adult and she gets to decide what she does next. Okay. What we don't want to do is artificially create loneliness in her life. She's struggling for the words to say, the things that she even needs, what she wants. We don't want to just, quote unquote, give her space. And all of a sudden, her whole network shuts off thinking they're helping out.

I would give her an opportunity to say, I'm not ready for that right now. Okay. And you need to just know every time you reach out and say, hey, I think it all starts with a cup of coffee or just go grab a drink and just hang out. But I think every time you invite her on that weekend trip, every time you invite her to that Airbnb, every time you invite her to that concert, if she says no, just know that has nothing to do with you. She's just grieving and struggling. And some days in her grief will be up days. And some days she's not going to want to get out from under the covers. And that's cool. And maybe you skip the weekend retreat and say,

hey, if I brought over a bunch of cheeseburgers and some nachos, you just want to watch Ted Lasso reruns? And she might be like, yes. And she might say, I just need some time by myself. Okay. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, that makes sense. And I'll tell you, I mean, I tell everybody this, but so often we have no roadmap for sitting with people who are hurting because of loss or because of cancer, because of whatever, that we all end up leaning on the hurting person

to make us feel better because we don't know what to do with our discomfort. And I would tell you just to be real cognizant of not using her and her going out with you, her and her saying, it's okay that y'all were causing a scene in the back of the room. Like it's not her job to prop y'all up right now.

It's vice versa. It's her friend's job to come hold her arms up in the desert because she can't breathe. See the difference? I do. And that's why I asked the question because, again, in my mind, it's like I hope I didn't cause her any more pain than what she's already going through. You probably didn't. You probably didn't. Okay.

You probably didn't. I'd be willing to bet you didn't. You might have bothered her aunt so-and-so or whatever, but she doesn't get a vote. And maybe you did. Maybe she's going to be really upset with you, and if she is, so be it. I mean, at that point, what do you say? You say, like, I'm really sorry.

Right. Like, I didn't have, like, I got uncomfortable, and I saw some old friends, and it was easy to distract myself. I just didn't handle it right. I'm sorry. I mean, what else are you going to say, right? Well, that's the truth.

Yeah, I was super uncool, and I'm sorry. Okay. If it were my friends, and I lost one of my siblings, and a bunch of my friends showed up, and they were in the back laughing, I would be grateful for that. So everybody's going to respond differently. I think the thing to not do is avoid your friend. I think it's to head directly into that discomfort and just put it all out on the table. But only after you've spent some time saying, hey, how are you? The week after the funeral, the month after the funeral, the six months after the funeral,

after all of the emails and cards stop and all of the condolences stop and the bills get paid and the insurance stuff comes through. After all that, it gets really, really quiet, real quiet. And that's when the real friends show up, not the hangers on and the high fivers and the peripheral friends who legitimately feel bad that you lost a child or that you're sick or that you know that your sibling passed away they're really sad but they move on your rider dies those you're really close to it affects y'all y'all's life is different now too and so like i say i will put a star in my calendar for a week out sometimes a month out sometimes six months out and just make sure I reach out because things get real quiet. So reach up. Tell you want to take her to coffee. And if she says, I don't want to go with you, I don't want to go with you. And you reach out in

another week. I don't want to go with you. Reach out another week. I don't want to go with you. Then you could say, Hey, are you, are we cool? Are we cool? And then maybe she'll say, no, you're a jerk. You were laughing at my sibling's funeral. And you can say, I'm sorry. I didn't heal it right. I was weirded out and I was uncool. I saw some old friends. I was uncool.

And then she gets to heal on her own. But I don't think that's going to be the case. She's lucky to have you, Lee. She's lucky to have you. Reach out. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks. Let's talk about hallow. All right. I say this all the time. We'll be right back. Especially if you don't consider yourself religious, if you question things, or if you've been burned by a church experience in the past,

it's hard to want to get together with other people. And that's another reason why I love Hallow. You can personalize your prayer experience with Hallow and they give you three free months to do it. You can pray or meditate by yourself, or you can connect with friends, with family, a prayer group, or some other community that you choose. And this way you can share prayers, share meditations.

You can even share journal reflections to grow in your faith together with others. And with Hallow, there are other ways you can personalize the app. They have downloadable offline sessions and links ranging from one minute up to an hour. And you can listen where it works for your schedule. You can choose your guide, your background schedule. You can choose your guide,

your background music. You can create your own personal prayer plan and more. I've made it a personal point to begin my day every single day with the hallow meditation on the scripture of the day. It's a discipline and it's a practice. And here's what I'm learning. As with anything of importance and meaning, prayer takes intentionality, practice, and showing up even when I don't feel like it, and even I don't want to. This is discipline. Sometimes you do this by yourself, and sometimes you do this with a group, and Halo helps you with both. Download the number one prayer app on planet Earth, Halo, right now. And listen, viewers and listeners of this show, get three free months when

you go to halo.com slash Deloney. It's amazing. Three, get three free months when you go to hallow.com slash Deloney. It's amazing. Three free months of the app when you go to hallow.com slash Deloney. Go right now and change your life. All right, let's go out to upstate New York and talk to the mighty Joseph. What's up, Joseph? Hey, how you doing, man? We're rocking, man.

Thank you so much. I'm glad that you're with us, man. What's up, Joseph? Hey, how you doing, man? We're rocking, man. Thank you so much. I'm glad that you're with us, man. What's up? So I'm at this crossroads in my life where I can't really figure out how to move on from actions that I've done or the person I was to the person I became. Long story as short as possible, I was married and had five beautiful kids with this woman. And, uh, I, I, I wasn't a man yet. I was stuck in this little boy mentality. Still. I never grew up. I didn't learn how to be emotionally open. I got stuck in active addiction and mental health untreated. And she got the worst part of me for almost eight years before the divorce.

And after the divorce, we started to move on and I started dating. And when I started dating and growing and going to counseling and get my relationship right with God, I saw a complete 180 from the man I was before. And now every time I get kind of close to someone and start really giving them the best part of me after four years of healing and growth, I, I, I've started to realize that, you know, I'm being a man for, for women who is not the mother of my child, you know, mother of my children. And I'm just, uh, it's, it's causing me to not be able to fully commit to people because I feel really guilty and ashamed that the, ashamed that the woman who birthed five beautiful kids for me got, you know, the terrible end of the deal.

And I just get in my head about what would happen if, you know, she had received the man that I am today, the one that's able to communicate, the one that's emotionally open, the one that has a relationship with God that she always wanted me to have with her, the relationship with God. I'm with a new woman now for six months and it's not by any means a perfect relationship, but we pray together in the morning. We pray together in the afternoon. We do church services. We put God first in our relationship. We communicate effectively all things that my wife of eight years was starving for and begging me for. Are you still struggling with addiction? I actually have four years sober now. Okay. And I've been back right with God for about a year now.

Hold on. What's your replacement? So my replacement was God. Uh, I, I entered God back into my life and, uh, I replaced it more with, uh, dealing with my problems effectively instead of masking my problems. So I use God and the Bible and, um, uh, Christian, uh, way of life to replace the things that I didn't like about myself. I used God to kind of replace those things with better attributes so that I didn't have to have the feeling of having to disassociate from the reality I was living. I think you're still disassociated. And I want you to prove

to me that I'm wrong. Okay. Right now you are punishing yourself in the present for things that you did in the past? Is that helping? Yes. It is helping? How's that helping? I mean, it's not helping, but I guess I could call it a dilemma. Is there anything you can do right now? Is there anything you can do to yourself when it comes to flogging or punishing yourself that's going to get you back those eight years?

No. No. No. And when I say it sounds like you're still disassociating, I think the discomfort is coming less from this guilt over how you treated this woman four years ago and up to 12 years ago. I think you're scared that you're going to fail again. Definitely.

And so she, this guilt, it feels like it's imaginary. It feels like a place to put your hurt onto without having to look in the mirror and say, I don't trust that guy yet. I agree. Is that fair? It's 100% fair and accurate I just don't think you're avoiding commitment

Because of the guilt of your wife I think you're avoiding commitment Because you're scared to death That you're not going to be who you want to be And so The way you're talking about all this Christian stuff I'm glad that you found faith I'm glad that you found a set of practices

I'm glad you found common ground I'm glad that you found faith. I'm glad that you found a set of practices. I'm glad you found common ground. I'm glad for all that stuff. But you know as well as I do, that can become really performative. Yeah. As a way to sing and dance.

And it's a fancy, sophisticated game of look over here, look over here, look over here. While you are looking in the mirror and thinking that guy's disgusting. I do

still beat myself up a lot. I know you do. And that tells me you're not all the way... But that tells me you're not on the other side of... That tells me you're not on the other side of taking a knee and submitting to, I'm out of control. Makes a lot of sense. There's faith performance.

There's religious practice that is a sense of surrender. And then there's faith practice as a form of control. I'm going to grab this wheel so tight I can see the whites in my knuckles. And that almost always ends in deconstruction and ash. Those that enter into belief, into faith structures with their hands open, it's, I mean, you can, I mean, if you're watching this on YouTube, you can like watch my shoulders drop. Faith and belief as a way of leaning against God is against something bigger than yourself.

That is different than trying to grasp hold of and take control of something infinitely bigger than you. Does that ring true? Yeah, definitely. That's why I just asked, what did you trade? Because it doesn't sound like you're on the other side. What was your addiction of choice? What was your numbing agent of choice?

Alcohol. Alcohol. Sounds like you put the bottle away. So you're four years other side what was your addiction of choice what was your numbing agent of choice alcohol alcohol sounds like you put the bottle away so you're four years without a drink yes sir do you work 90 hours a week or do you have a healthy work balance about 70 hours a week out of town that was another thing I I tried to get away from all these emotions and took my local job over the road and about 3,000 miles away from everybody right now. There you go. So you did a noble thing. You got out of the bar, right?

Very, very hard. Very hard. Very noble. I'm super proud of you. And you Forrest Gumped it. You just kept running. Is that fair? Definitely.

Okay. And I think you're running from you. That's very fair. I always run from me. And, you know, I don't know why I hold myself to this higher expectation than I hold other people. I definitely don't cut myself any slack. You know, I always feel this sense of inadequacy, um, in everything I do be at work or being a

father or being in a relationship or the marriage when I was in it. I guess I always feel like whatever I do, it's never going to be enough. It's never going to be, you know, Who are you trying to perform for? I can never differentiate if I'm actually selflessly doing it for the other person or if I'm doing it for like the status of my own self to make myself feel okay. It's probably an exhausting thing trying to parse that out instead of just going to do the next right thing. Because it's probably a mixture of both.

Is that fair? Like sometimes I do the dishes when the house is bananas and my kids are all over the place. My wife has driven four hours in the car between a cross-country meet and school and after-school play and violin. I'll do the dishes to help my wife out, to help out the ecosystem of the house, to help out everything. And it does make me feel like I'm a good dad and a good husband. All that can be true. If I'm one of those weak husbands that goes and does the dishes, and then I sit there like a puppy waiting for my wife to pat me on the head and tell me I'm a good boy, and if she doesn't, I pout, that's lame. But I think it's a mixture of all of it, and I think that's okay. Do you paralyze yourself with thinking and thinking and ruminating over and over and over and over again?

Always. I am the hugest overthinker. Okay. always i am the hugest overthinker okay you know even in my current relationship it could be something very minuscule and i will overthink it to the point that something so minor like a small little blip in communication turns into everything is destroyed everything's wrong and i'm into like survival mode time to fix things when really it's just like two words that need to be said was your childhood chaos? Very much so, yes.

Rumination is a complete and total waste of your time. The only thing it proves, it feels like you are getting out ahead of things and it feels like productive, helpful thinking and pre-planning. It's not. It's another drink. It's a way to not feel the current moment and a way to not make a rational decision about what comes next. It's a way to avoid all of that. It's a drug that your body gets addicted to.

And my guess is overthinking, having to think about what comes next kept you safe as a kid. Is that fair? Definitely. It was a defense mechanism of creating an escape plan. Was your mom an alcoholic? No, just an abusive household with my mom and my dad. Very tumultuous relationship with no communication, just physical interaction. Okay.

So you're literally getting hit as a kid. You have to think two steps ahead of your old man so you don't get his fist in your face. And your body comes up with a pattern on how to solve and enter into and out of relationships. And it's by pre-planning and pre-planning and observing and watching and coming up with another plan and another route and another route and another route. And you miss this woman sitting next to you on the couch saying, hey, can I just saddle up next to you? Cause I love you. You miss all that. Exactly. Right. Are you in communication with your five kids? Yeah, we FaceTime two to three times a day. And whenever I'm on home time from work, I actually stay in my oldest son's room. He has a futon and I have a very good co-parenting relationship. So I talk to my kids a couple

times a day when I'm at work and when I'm home, it's all about them for the week that I'm off work every month. Your ex-wife, y'all still talk? Y'all act like grownups? Oh, very much so. We're actually really good friends and we parent better apart than we did together. And we're on such a good level. You know, we talk about our current relationships and we talk about the kids and we're even there for each other on friendship levels. Like if she needs something

that's outside the realm of kids or me, we're always there for each other. We're pretty good with that. So it sounds like she's forgiven you. And it sounds like she's forgiven you and it sounds like she's made peace with this is her life and it sounds like you've made peace with this is your life sounds like the only person that hasn't forgiven Joseph is Joseph

that makes sense and at some point, you have to understand continuing to look in the mirror and try to outperform your dislike for yourself will be a crash landing every single time.

You can't hate your body into going into the gym to get in better shape. You can't hate the way you look into dieting so that you lose weight. You can't hate yourself into being a better husband. You can't. You have to decide, man, I really was struggling, and I made some really bad choices half a decade ago.

I did. And it cost me everything. And the greatest way I can honor my ex-wife, who's now a good friend of mine, who's a good co-parent, who's a good mother to all five of my kids, is to not make the same mistake in future relationships. And that doesn't start with singing and dancing. That starts with being a good steward of the man in the relationships. And that doesn't start with singing and dancing.

That starts with being a good steward of the man in the mirror. I'm going to take care of his mental and emotional health. I'm going to take care of his relationships. I'm going to take care of his physical body. How much money do you make at your job? What's your annual income? Roughly $65,000 to $70,000. I want you to quit that job

and find a $60,000 job in your local community. You don't have to be on the road so much. Stop running. You could probably make $65,000 as a manager of a McDonald's. And I'm saying that half with a wink. I know it's easy for me just to lob that. I'm just a podcaster.

Like, quit your job, man. But I want you to start reimagining. Did you go to AA when you first got sober? I did, and I still go to virtual meetings for those. I still work a virtual 12-step program. You are living your life at arm's length. You go to virtual AA. Most of your interactions with your kids are AA, most of your interactions with your kids are

virtual. Most of your interactions with your current six-month girlfriend is in your head. You're going to have to make peace with being present with people in the room looking you in the eye. And that probably is pretty uncomfortable, huh? It is. I have like a overwhelming sense of anxiety when that happens. Okay. You got to head into those storms. Otherwise, you're going to create an entirely virtual world that feels real, but it's not, and your body's going to shut you down. Okay? Definitely. It makes a lot of sense. When you first go to AA, what do they tell you? You're going to lose your friends. You're going to lose your environment. You're going to lose the bar where everybody knows your name and your life is worth it, right? That's what they say. Yes. You're there part two. Now you have to be stopped. You have to find environments where you're not running all the time. You have to find environments where you have to be present and you have to feel

that anxiousness and remind yourself, I'm worthy of being loved and I'm worthy of being here. And when those old stories pop up, I'm not who I once was. Thank God I've grown. By the way, Joseph, we all have. I don't know anybody who's super thrilled with who they were 14 years ago. I don't know anybody. I think Jenna was eight, but I don't think any of us are happy with who we were 14 years ago. I don't know anybody. I think Jenna was eight, but I don't think any of us are happy with who we were 14 years ago. Thank God that we get to grow and learn new things and thank God

for grace and forgiveness and new friends. And the circle all the way back around your religious practices are good, man. I'm glad it's much better than going into a bar. But if you're using religious practices as a way to grab tight control of your life, you're going to end up suffocating yourself. Belief, faith, it's about letting go into this love that's way, way bigger than you are. God is not something that you can wrap your hands around and grab hold of. God is somebody you enter into their presence

and take a knee and he picks you up and he hugs you so tight you can hardly breathe. And he says, I love you. Will you love you too? You have to love your enemies too. Even when you're your worst enemy. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out

or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com.

All right, as we wrap up today's show, two incredible feel-good stories that have a little bit of advice for all of us. This first one is from NPR in 2014. Trieste Belmont was struggling with depression. Her grandmother had just died. She and her longtime boyfriend had just broken up. Life felt unbearable around that time.

Belmont was teaching a dance class. She didn't have a driver's license. So friends and family would have to give her rides. One day her ride didn't show up. She waited for an hour. They never came. And she writes, I just decided to walk home. It wasn't super far, but longer than I wanted to walk. And I was having one of the worst days of my life.

On the way home, I crossed over the 49 bridge. It's a high bridge. And I was looking down at all the cars feeling so useless, like such a burden to everyone in my life. And I decided this is the time I'm going to end my life. I was sobbing and crying and working up the courage to just go through with it because I knew at that moment I was going to make everyone's life better. And a car came driving up from behind and they shouted, don't jump right as I was in my darkest moment. Those words changed everything for me. Having a stranger care about me in my darkest time made it so I didn't jump And it saved my life From good news movement 16 year old jamie harrington saw a man sitting on the edge of a bridge and stopped to ask

Are you okay? Ah, geez kelly's gonna make me cry Thinking of a 16 year old boy walking home my son's 13 just a few years just think about this close your eyes if you're not driving 16 year old boy just walking home with a backpack on and um i don't know just singing some dumb song in his head and he sees a man sitting on the edge of a bridge and he stops and says, hey, are you okay? And that one little question caused that man to pause and he got down. After convincing the man to get help, the 16-year-old boy convinced the man to get help. They exchanged numbers and parted ways. Months later, the man called Jamie, and he said him and his wife were expecting a baby boy, and they named the baby Jamie.

So when we have – it's common, and I thought this for years and years and years. I'm not going to get involved if someone's going to take their life, if someone's going to die by suicide, because if I get involved, if someone really wants to die, they're going to figure out another way to do it. They're going to, they're going to find a way. Right. And then that famous study about folks who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge and lived. And I don't remember the number, but a high in the high nineties, nine, more than 90% of them went on to die of old age of die of natural causes, die of cancer, whatever, later on down the road. What does that mean? They lived, and the moment they jumped, they said,

what am I doing? Nothing was this big. It doesn't always have to be suicide. Sometimes it's your daughter. Sometimes it's your be suicide Sometimes it's your daughter Sometimes it's your husband Sometimes it's your friend It's your co-worker Just saying hey I see you

I hope you're doing okay Sometimes it's a text to a friend Who lost a loved one a few months ago And it just says I know today's quiet And now you feel like nobody's thinking about you. I am. Or it might just be, hey, that's a cool shirt.

You look good. You look nice. Not in a creepy, weird way, Ben, but like in a, hey, you look nice. We have a culture of let's don't get involved. That's their problem. These are my problems. Mind your business. What if we,

what if we change that? And that's not a, it's not going to come from Washington. It's not going to come from a Senator. It's not going to come from a teacher or whatever. It's going to come from you saying, Hey, you look nice saying,

Hey, it would make my day if I could pay for your groceries. Hey, I had a really good month. I'm grabbing your gas at the pump. Hey, single mom, I'm paying for all four tires. It's just been that kind of month for us. I'm going to pass them along.

Hey, are you okay? Three words that have saved more lives than almost any other three words. Or maybe, I love you. Whatever it is. Quietly. And with kindness and gentleness. Let's get involved. Let's be the person in the car driving by saying, hey, don't jump.

Let's be the 16-year-old kid saying, hey, are you okay? That's how the world's going to change. I love you guys. Thank y'all for joining us on today's show. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. Be nice. Make it a point today to ask somebody that you don't know that well, hey, are you okay? We'll be right back. Love you guys.