The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband Weaponizes Scripture to Control Me

Episode Date: June 25, 2025

On today’s episode, we hear about: •       A wife struggling to feel valued by her demanding husband •       A woman wondering how to tell her son he’s the product of a one-night stand •       A woman coming to terms with the fact that her relationship is over ☎️ Listen to the original call with Stephanie—My Best Friend Passed. . .Can I Date Her Husband?   Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test  📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future  ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭 John's Free Guided Meditation  🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch    Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Get 15% off with code DELONY at Bon Charge. Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth.   Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe.  Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial.  Visit Helix Sleep for special offers!  Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi.   Get 25% off your order at Thorne.    Go to Trainwell to get started! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights   🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Big news! New dates for money and marriage getaway just dropped for Valentine's Day weekend 2026. Get tickets at ramsysolutions.com events to get away with your spouse in Nashville, Tennessee. How do I respond to my husband when he demands submission? What? He's often used the Bible verses about why I submit to your husband and everything to end our arguments.

Yeah, it's like taking a Bible and hitting you in the mouth with it. This is an insane situation. Yo, yo, yo, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney show. Man, I'm glad you are with us trying to bring some sanity to our crazy relationships and challenges with our kids and our friends and our mental and emotional health in a world that has lost its mind. It's amazing to me.

I'm reading headlines right now and I won't read them here because everybody will get all gastrointestinal distress. But it is wild in these streets. It's got the Indianapolis. I'm going to get myself fired and talk to Nicole. What's up, Nicole? What do you say? Hi, how are you?

I could not be better. Doing great. How about you? I'm all right. Thank you for talking to me. Of course. What's going on? So my question for you is how do I respond to my husband when he demands submission? Yeah, what does that mean? A little background, I guess. We've been married for almost three years and since we've gotten married, he's often used the Bible verses about wives submit to your husbands and everything to end our arguments. My faith is really important to me, so it feels like a trump card has

been played when he does this and I just shut down. me, so it feels like a trump card has been played when he does this and I just shut down. Yeah, it's like taking a Bible and hitting you in the mouth with it. Yeah, exactly. And then blaming you for bleeding on the pages. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. All right, give me an example. So recently, I guess I brought up my need for a bit more contribution around the house.

And this devolved into an hours long argument where he ended up reading these verses to me off of his phone. And I don't know what else to do. What? So you said, hey, and by the way, let's take away the word need. I think that's a way we can drown each other. You said, hey, I want some help. And he said, like, do you have kids? I mean, what kind of help do you need?

Or do you want? No kids. No kids, but that is another reason why I'm calling. That's definitely a hot topic at the moment. But I kind of feel like I do a bit more than my fair share, I guess. Well, he's playing video games. And so I say, hey, can you vacuum

or can you take out the trash? And the argument will devolve into, well, you can quit your job and then you won't have anything to complain about anymore. And then as arguments continue, Is this guy, is this for real? This is a real dude? Yes. He pauses his video game to look over his shoulder at you? And then grabs his phone and reads Bible verses about how you should submit to him?

Yeah, and sometimes the video game isn't even paused. I wish I were joking. I literally am out of words. Yeah, I... Oh my gosh. Yeah, I mean, this isn't about me. How can I help? Well, um...

I mean, this is an insane situation. Yeah, I guess I won't speak about him necessarily, but I feel very dismissed. I'm feeling unvalued. Wait, why? Just because he plays video games and hits you in the face with the Bible? And he doesn't help? And you wash his underwear and you work full time? And you, like, why in the world would

you feel this? It's kind of a, it feels like a gender game is being played a lot of the time. And I see, you know, there's certainly merit in that we are meant to compliment each other. Hold on. No, no, no, no, no, no, don't do that. Please don't do that. Okay. This is not a gender game.

This is not a gender game. This is not a scripture game. Because the other part of that talks about die for your wife. Put down the video game controller and help her while she melts in front of you. That is not a verse about you get a lifetime made and sexual slave. That does not mean you win every argument about where you're going to go eat and what you're going to do with the kids and what your wife's hair is going to look like. At all. There's such a disgusting gross misrepresentation of what that talks about. It's abusive the way that's used. And here's why it's abusive, because you're bound inside of a faith context, right?

And you can't, you're not leaving that faith context. And so inside those walls, he's taking this Bible, he's beating you over the head with it and saying, you do what I say, while he's sitting there eating Cheetos, playing video games. I just, I mean, I, geez, dude. It's like a, it's like a, It's like a...

This is one of those dudes that like when I'm talking to people out in the public sphere and we're having a good-natured debater and not good-natured debate. This is the guy they bring up and I say that's not real. Nobody's like that. And you're like, no, no, no, I married him. I married him. You know, there's obviously really wonderful qualities about him. He works extremely hard. He's very successful.

But, you know, that's great on paper until it comes time to talk about emotions. And that can be really difficult. We're not even talking about emotions. We're talking about, hey, can we do life together? No, submit. Yeah. And then add in the whole pressure to have kids very soon. And I'm sure he's...

I feel a bit stuck. Ripped off some Bible verses out of context to make you feel bad about that one too. Yeah. I don't know how you're going to feel stuck. I mean, you get to choose what happens next. I don't know how you're going to feel stuck. You get to choose what happens next. Here's the thing that's kind of freaking me out or grossing me out. I think I've been super fortunate and I've also curated it.

No question about that, but I've been fortunate with the men I've just got, I just roomed with in college and the people I've grown up around and the people that I run with. And so I live in kind of a bubble of pretty, not perfect men, kind of some dorks, kind of some buttholes, me too, but like with good men. And that's on me that I don't, I need to get my head out of the sand and realize there's a lot more of this kind of nonsense going on out there. It's a blessing though. What is? Having good men around you?

Yeah, it's awesome. Of course it is. It's amazing. But it paints, because here's the thing, I hear these stories and my first gut instinct is that can't be real. And every woman's lived experience, not every, but so many women's lived experiences, it tells me I'm dead, dead, dead wrong. And I guess I'd just say on behalf of men everywhere,

I'm so sorry. On behalf of guys who identify as Christian, I'm sorry. Well, thank you. It doesn't help you at all. Not even a little bit. And I don't want to put a bad label on it, of course, especially because that's a faith I subscribe to as well. I guess I'm looking for hope, I suppose.

Or something like that. Where does this come from for him? How does this distill down into an operation? He's gotta learn this from something. Yeah, my thought is he had a very traditional upbringing. I did too. But my dad said, serve your wife. Maybe it wasn't so traditional. Yeah, I don't know.

It's, it's an upbringing that certainly insisted upon mom and wife stay home and do what you're told while husband goes and makes the money. And that's sort of where that ends with his responsibility. So I think a lot of that has with his responsibility. Um, so I think a lot of that has trickled down. It wasn't this way when we were dating. I was going to say, why'd you marry into this? Yeah, I suppose I thought he was different from his parents. You know, we'd had that conversation of what we want our marriage to look like and I thought

he didn't want one like his parents and I didn't want one like my parents and we could forge our own path, but we fall into old habits, I suppose. Yeah. Are you safe? Physically safe, yes. Okay. Thank you. Because the next step is you being very, very clear

with yourself and probably with a counselor, a couple of girlfriends on what will be true in your home for your body autonomy. Because I also know this happens in the bedroom. And I know this happens in any other sphere that you don't feel comfortable talking about publicly, but I know. And because this is a radically abusive distorted view of all sorts of good things used to wield power and it just makes me sick to my stomach dude. But you need to be very clear about here's's how this is gonna go. And then he gets a choice to opt in or opt out. And I guess what I'm telling you is,

if you're telling me this is what he knows, like does he have guy friends? What does he listen to? Like where does this continue on? I think a lot of the media he consumes very much, uh, encourages his worldview. So. Who? What does he consume? Uh, certain podcasts that I'm learning the word Manosphere.

Oh God, is he Andrew Tate guy? Uh, I, he, I don't think that's the specific person he listens to but certainly guys like him I think it's got a big influence on how uh the the culture in our home at the moment So if he was bringing pornography into the house and letting that be instructive as to how you were going to react to it, I mean, how are you going to respond to him sexually? Would you put up with that? No. Okay.

I want you to view this kind of poison and garbage the exact same way. I hadn't thought of it like that. you this kind of poison and garbage the exact same way? I hadn't thought of it like that. I guess if nothing else on this phone call, I want you to feel permission. As long as you're safe. If you're not safe, please, please go somewhere where you're safe physically, okay. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Um, to reclaim your autonomy. I'm sorry. Did you grow up with some of this nonsense too? No, maybe that's why I'm, you know, I've allowed some of it to really sit with me and confuse me. It's a, well, a very, very common thing when I used to sit down with assault victims was it was a almost as I would ask questions as part of an investigation what happened. It was a digesting.

It was like a slow metabolizing of, oh my gosh, I am now in this category. Like I am now a person that this is happening to and our bodies are so amazing at helping us get distance from wild types of pain, both emotional and psychological and physical. It helps us like make space. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. And it's hard when the space begins to shrink and you realize, oh, this is my life. Yeah, it's just sort of a how did it come to this? How did everything change so quickly?

I know and you sound like somebody who's looked to the mirror and tried to figure out what you did wrong here. And you just got to hear me say, dude, this is madness. It's madness. It helps to hear somebody else say it and make you feel a little less alone. So thank you. I mean, listen to the other like bro guys out there. Do you know the word like behind closed doors?

The word on the street with Rogan is that he's one of the greatest husbands ever. You ever heard some of those goofballs talk about their like, I'm just thinking of like the guys with huge podcasts who are all like, you know, like real raunchy dudes. They're so insane about how much they love their wives. And how they dedicate their lives to try, like they tell jokes about them and they're in a pro blah blah blah. But they, it's this, can not do anything other than I want to provide the most insane life for my wife.

Wow. You ever heard Dave Ramsey talk about his wife? It's amazing. That's how I found you. people talk about me and my wife. I mean, it's just Mm-hmm. It's such a great I think you're blowing my mind right now And you shouldn't that this kind of nonsense is still out there and I thought this crap I'm sorry, I'm just sorry I'm sorry. No, don't be don't be sorry. No, I Hate it for you. I was scared to call but I think if anybody else is out there, you know

Maybe they can hear something like this and feel a little less alone. What's your next move? Well Probably get on my knees and pray yeah, I'm being honest and call a girlfriend Okay, and then what? And just be honest. I don't know. After that, I don't know. Okay. I need you to hear me say you have a very hard road ahead of you.

And this is a choose your hard moment. It's going to be very, very hard to continue living the life where you are somebody else's servant. There's no care in the world about your feelings, your emotions, your dreams, your wants, your partnership. Yeah. You are a maid, you're a sexual servant, and you are a child dispenser. That's gonna be a very hard life.

And it will be very hard to untangle yourself from this madness too. Yeah. So the like knowing there's only hard paths ahead of me. You're right. Ahead of you. It's not a matter of there's an easy route out of this thing. It's just two hard paths. And so whenever somebody's faced with a choose your hard moment, my recommendation is to

pick the hard path that will get you to the place that you want to be in five years, in three years. That's good advice. Thank you. Just hear me say, there's good guys out there. There's tons and tons and tons and tons and tons of them. I promise you I know them I Believe you and I and I know I'm gonna be okay, I think just you know Feeling a little bit

Like I've got somebody to walk with me has been helpful even just for a few minutes. So I really appreciate it Can I give you can I ask one more quick question? I'll let you go. Of course. Of course. And this is only, I'll edit this part out if you want me to. This is only because I've, I've sat with too many people who have been on the other side of this thing before for 20 years. I've done this. I can hear your voice starting to inch backwards a little bit.

Like there's a fear that I've said too much and I'm not safe anymore. Are you okay? I'm okay. Just a little shaken, I think. Okay. Thank you. What you did is a brave thing. When you hang up with me, will you call somebody that you trust and send to come over and talk

to you right now? I'm going to do that. Yeah. You promise? Sorry. Yes, promise. Okay. Hey, don't ever apologize to me.

I'm just a clown on the radio, dude. I'm on the podcast. But I want you to- You're a very helpful clown. I want you to listen to that lump in your throat, okay? Sounds like you're hanging on with duct tape right now. Are you sure you're okay? Yes, I'm okay. Thank you. I'm gonna trust you. Will you call me anytime? All right. Bye love.

All right. Thanks. Love you. Bye bye. Kelly. I don't have any kind words to say right now. For those of you listening, if you want to hear what fear and terror sounds like, it sounds like that woman's voice. And I can feel it. My wife told me back when I was in college that when she would grab my arm and take me out of a situation

because I started getting a little, like my mouth does a weird thing and I can feel it doing it right now. Let's go to commercial. We'll be right back. It's Deloney and I want to talk about Organifi. I talk to people every day who are stressed out, anxious, not sleeping well, no friends in sight, and just generally mad at everything.

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Thanks so much for taking my call. Of course, what's up, Elizabeth? Hi, dr. John. What's up? Thanks so much for taking my call. Of course what's going on? well, I Was hoping that you can give me some advice or some guidance on How I can Overcome the guilt and shame That I live with on a fairly daily basis for conceiving my son in a one night stand. Where's the shame and guilt coming from? I think it comes from a couple different places.

from a couple different places. So, brief backstory. I'm a woman of faith and at the end of 2022, excuse me, I came out of a very verbally and emotionally abusive divorce I Was in a just a very bad place emotionally mentally Within a few months of that divorce and becoming final I Was going through probably the worst like soul-crushing loneliness I've ever experienced in my life. I Had no sense of self-worth. I just was in experienced in my life. I had no sense of self-worth. I just was in a really bad place. And I started making some decisions that I would never have normally made. I started seeking to fill that loneliness and just making some bad decisions when it came to one night's hands. And I didn't last very long and I just didn't feel like myself, didn't want any part of doing this anymore and stopped completely. But before I could begin any sort of healing from the trauma that I'd been

through, I found out I was pregnant. And so, from day one of conception, I've been a single mom and it began, you know, that nine-month journey of the daily reminder of what I had done, walking out of my house every day, feeling like I had a giant scarlet letter A on my forehead, you know, having to walk into church as a single woman every Sunday with a belly that was getting bigger. Like there was very much that side of guilt and shame. Um, and then on the other side as well, I don't have, I'm not giving him the life that I would want it to have given my son being in the single mom

position that I am and You know, we share a little one-bedroom apartment and I work you know two and three jobs to keep him in school and He's the most precious thing I have and I'm just struggling with How to break through that guilt and shame.

Have you ever heard me lie to somebody on this show? Never. I'm not going to start now. Okay. You're a real good mom. Actually, you're an unbelievable mom. Actually, you're an unbelievable mom. This knuckleheaded little boy, how old is he? He's one and a half now.

Is he just a human hurricane? Is he just chaos? Actually, he's... Oh, is he one of those sweet kids? It's kind of awesome. He's the sweetest little boy I could have ever asked for. He's, um, he helped me unload the dishwasher. He takes out his own trash.

He puts his own laundry away. I mean, he's, he's just the best little boy I could have asked for. Okay. You're a good mom. You draw it up this way? No. Are you trying to navigate your way through hell? Yeah.

Did you do some things that were out of character for you? Out of alignment with your values? Yeah. Do you have like a extraordinary miracle? Yep. I'm curious when you're going to church and you're pregnant, do people look down their nose at you or do they welcome you and say, Oh my gosh, I'm so glad you're here. They were, they were extremely welcoming. Okay.

Then here's what I want you to do when you, when, when you can't hold your arms up in the desert, when your arms are tired. That's pretty amorphous. That's an old like Bible story. When you're, when you look at, you glance by yourself in the mirror and you look tired. How old are you? I'm 35. Okay.

You're tired. This isn't how you drew this up. Yeah. And you have a little kid, bop bop bop, in the other room. I know if you're one bedroom apartment and you don't believe your worth very much I want you to remember my voice I want you to remember the welcoming voices and smiles and hugs of the people at your local church I want you to remember those voices okay

voices. Okay. Okay. I'm just so afraid that I'm going to accidentally or unintentionally give him some kind of impression when he's older that he was a mistake and I don't ever, ever want him to feel that way. So I'm trying hard in this season of my life to overcome that so that I don't ever. Here's how you do it. You wanna hear it's really simple. Every morning and every night, hold his face, put your hands on his face. Okay, and by the way, that's got. It regulates a kid's nervous system. It

down regulates it. It lets their nervous system know that they're safe in this particular moment. Okay. Okay. Put your hands on his face and say, I'm so glad that God picked me to be your mommy. I can do that every morning and every night. And one day soon he's going to say, where's my dad? You're going to have to have that conversation. Where is his dad, by the way? He is, he, he is aware he has a son. At this time, he is not wanting to be a part of his life. Okay. Have you taken him to court for money?

He does pay child support, yeah. Okay. So, we're going to honestly, when the kid asks, we'll say dad's really sick and he's not coming. He's not able to come home right now. Actually, we're not going to say that we're gonna say daddy's really sick and he's choosing to not come to the house right now so that he doesn't get the rest of us sick. And I will say that with full integrity because to not want to be in the life of your son is very ill. Okay.

Yeah, that's been a conversation I've been anticipating and trying to prepare myself for. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Just don't ever lie. Because he won't be able to process that mommy's a liar and don't ever talk bad because half of him is that guy. Right.

And there will come a day, hopefully, that he loops back around, okay? Maybe not, but hopefully. Right. And at some point, he'll learn how babies are made and you'll tell him. And then he'll say, oh, is that how I was made? And you'll say, yes. And you have a bunch of religious context, you've got a bunch of personal baggage, you've got all these other things.

He doesn't have any of that. Right. He will know every night, despite his questions that he has loved the moon and back. Because every single morning his mom puts her hand on her face. And by the way, as he gets older, he'll get squirming and be like, mom, and be like, nope, I'm saying it. Okay. And we're not going to shy away from hard questions.

We're going to head right through them because he will feel unanchored. You're right. It's going from hard questions. We're going to head right through them because he will feel unanchored. You're right. It's going to be hard. You're right. And he's not going to have to also wonder if my mom told me the truth. All those things are true. But if you start holding your breath now for a hard conversation that may come a year or two years, five years from now, what you're going to do is you're not going to prevent

that hard conversation. You're just going to rob yourself of the joy in the present moment that you live right now. That's true. So when he starts asking questions, let him have a bank of months and years of laughter and joy. Yeah, I do feel like I've been robbing myself at least of moments such as my pregnancy. I mean, I can't look back on it and say that any of it was joyful when it should have been because I just, I let the guilt and the shame consume me so much. It's kind of like you fell out of a boat in the middle of the ocean.

You finally got back to shore and you're really mad at that your, that your breaststroke wasn't great. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's an analogy. Like, don't critique your swimming. You made it to shore. Here you are. And you ended up on a shore you didn't want to be on, but you're at shore.

And you got this amazing little boy. He is amazing. And your healing will come from choosing every time those those voice pops in your head. I want you to have a tiny picture. I want you to go get one printed at Walgreens a little picture of him not on your phone, but a real picture and what you put in your pocket. And every time that voice pops in your head of nobody's going to want to marry me now. I can't believe I slept with this dude on like, you know, in the back of a car after

I can't believe I went up to his apartment. I can't believe I only to pull that picture up and say, and I got you. And what we're going to slowly do over time is you are going to change your default setting to I'm defined by doing something that was in violation of my own values to I'm a great mom. And when he's 14 or 12 or 11 or 16, he'll be like, was I an accident? And you can laugh because you'll have 15 years or 10 years or nine years of relationship and you can be like, I didn't plan you. But God did.

I'm glad you're here. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yep. So I will end this call with one last statement. You are a great mom. Thank you.

And the months and years of two jobs and only seeing him for a few minutes in the morning and an hour in the evening, those will come to an end. You're in a crappy season right now. Okay? Yeah. Here's what I'm going to send you. Okay? I'm going to send you a couple of, I'm going to load you up.

All right? You ready? Okay. I'm going to send you Financial Peace University, the digital classes all for free. All nine lessons I want you to watch and I want you to start doing it. Okay? Okay. I'm going to send you Total Money Makeover for free, the book.

I want you to read that. Single moms working two or three jobs trying to figure out daycare and school is a, money is a mess. Okay? And it's a tool and a path. I'm also going to send you my buddy Ken Coleman's book work. You're wired to do And I want you to start thinking about life after two jobs Yeah, okay, thank you. Thank you. What's a career kid? I'm not finished. I'm also gonna send you building a non-anxious life, okay?

Okay, I'm gonna send you all of the questions for humans parents and kids cards So when y'all are sitting at a little diner Sharing a cheeseburger because that's all you can afford right now You can pull a couple of those questions question cards out Okay, okay, I'm gonna do that I know he's only 15 months. He can't even talk that well, but it'll be fun to babble He's only just finally started saying mama. Okay. Well then take those cards and just put them in the drawer for a while I'm way ahead of myself Here's I'm trying to communicate you're not by yourself. Okay. I Think you I appreciate that cool

Yes, sir. Thank you call any time. Okay, hang on the line here, we'll get you hooked up with this stuff. Thank you. Yes, you're awesome. All right, when we come back, a caller updates us on her relationship with her late friend's husband. We'll be right back. All right, let's talk about Delete Me. Does anyone else feel like our digital footprints are starting to feel more like digital trails, leading bad guys right to us wherever we happen to be? And now scammers

are using phishing attacks with a pH? Or they try to trick you into giving them something by pretending to know you? You get an email, a text or a phone call and the person or the AI bot on the other end sounds like someone who's trying to help you out? With the new technological advancements, no one is really safe. What is any of us to do? First, we're gonna start controlling what we can control. We're gonna learn about how to be careful online and offline, and we're gonna sign up with Delete Me.

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privacy with DeleteMe. Go to joindeleteme.com slash deloney today for 20% off the annual plan. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. That's joindeleteme.com slash deloney. All right, we are back. All right, Kelly, this is a follow-up call from someone who previously called. Fill me in. Right. So Stephanie called a little while back, just a mother so ago, and she had gone through

a divorce and her best friend had passed away, and she and the best friend's husband were starting to kind of dip their toe in the water of a relationship and deciding how to move forward. Okay. So now she's calling us with an update on how things are going. Okay, awesome All right. Let's go out to Stephanie in here in Franklin, Tennessee. What's up, Stephanie? Hey, dr. John, how are you? I'm good. Are you calling me back? Cuz I gave you horrible advice last time No, you gave incredible advice

So, how are you doing? I was doing really, really well till Easter. Okay. What happened at Easter? And so we met right after, like a couple days after I called you, and it was wonderful. Oh, you and this guy. You and your late friend's ex-husband All right. I don't know if you call him ex but her okay. All right, so y'all met in person

we met in person and He we had talked even before meeting but he he was very much wanting to be in a relationship and We had talked a lot about you know, are you sure you're ready? It hasn't been a year yet. And he had already decided before we started talking that he was ready to move to a different location. He was ready just to kind of start life over, fresh start kind of thing.

And so for him, when we started talking, everything kind of started falling into place and I was very hesitant because Even when we lived in the same area and our families would do stuff together. I never really considered him a friend Just because I didn't talk to him very much. So Anyhow we met and The first 15 minutes were so awkward. Like it was so funny. We laughed so much because we just put it all on the table, like you said.

And it was like, well, the last time we saw each other we were both married and you know, it was just, it was, it was fun. But so behavior was consistent, talking was consistent. And I decided I really did want to be in a relationship with this guy. Oh, I had a bull man. I know.

I'm going to stop right there. I've got so many more questions, but all right, so keep going. So y'all are in it to win it now. Yes. And he started looking for jobs in where, you for jobs in the middle Tennessee area and wanting to move here. We told the kids that went better than expected, still hard, but better than expected, very much moving forward.

And then Easter happened and everything just came to a halt. And when I tell you every GPS pin in my body was going off like the fourth of July, it was, I was terrified. And I had told him before he just stopped talking to me. And I had told him when we first started talking like if we get in a relationship One thing I am so scared of is the rug being pulled out from under me because it's been so many times and so when he stopped talking that's how I felt and Reached out to a couple mentors. We talked and they said, you know, the anniversary of her death hasn't even happened. It's coming up It's awful. It's on Mother's Day of all days this year

And just back off give him some space. So I did I reached out to him one last time I said, you know, I'm just gonna give you space to grieve right now. I'm here. I love you. I want to help you You're already saying I love you. Oh Yeah, damn, Gina. All right.? Oh yeah. Damn, Gina. All right, so hold on. So did he cut you off completely and just ghost you or did he start saying things like, hey, I'm really struggling with my ex, I'm grieving? Or did he just stop responding to anything?

He stopped responding. So you even saying, hey, I hey want to grieve I know you're grieving right you were just fishing you're just guessing yes exactly because he didn't really address it and so on Wednesday so what four days three four days later he sent a voice message and said you know thank you for giving me some space. It's actually been a much easier week than I thought. I've gotten lots of rest, spent time with the kids, and I was like, okay.

And I sent a voice message back. That's wonderful. I'm glad that's happening. I'm praying for you. You're an incredible dad. I'm so proud of you. I love you. I'm here.

Didn't really hear anything again until Saturday morning when he sent a voice message again and he said, you know, I've been talking with the kids. They don't want to move. I'm realizing all the feelings I had for my wife are still very strong. I've really enjoyed time with you. And that's kind of it. Like, thank you for, I know this week has been hard on you. Thank you for your prayers. That's it. So I texted him back and I said, I'm very confused right now. Can you please clarify what you meant by that? And it's Wednesday afternoon. I haven't heard a single thing. So what I'm wondering...

Yeah. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. You're wondering right. He just broke up with you. That's what that is. So this isn't grief.

No, it's not grief. No, no. No. And he did it in a very cowardly way via voice text. Yeah. I'm sorry. That's what I was afraid of. I'm sorry.

Because I was holding on to the hope that once the anniversary has passed that he would start to see through the mist and realize she isn't coming back. He's ready to move on. No, it's not that. I mean, he told you this actually been a pretty good week. I think he was telling you I'm not really grieving. I'm doing okay. Oh, okay. Well, that's... Hold on. Don't just run tired. It's heartbreaking. I'll sit here with you for a second. I hate it. heartbreaking. I'll sit here with you for a second. I hate it. Yeah, it really, really hurts.

Yeah. Because I let myself, how I feel right now is like, and I know it's only been four months, but he built this home for me. And he put me inside of it and said, you're loved, you're safe here. And then he set it on fire and walked away. And I have to clean it all up. Yeah. But I was hoping this whole time I was wrong.

Yeah. There's another way to look at it. Could you hear another way to look at it? Or are you hurting pretty bad right now? No, I can hear. It might also be that he built a house and invited you in and you all had a great four months. And in his own awkward cowardly way, he said, hey, I'm going to be done now. But nothing's on fire. You're sad. Your heart's broken.

But you may have proved to yourself that you can love again. You may have proven to yourself that you're a little bit stronger and more courageous and brave than you thought you were. You may have been affirmed that, yeah, I'm a good kisser. Maybe, maybe not. Oh yeah, no, totally. Sorry, I'm trying to laugh here. No, no, no, no, do whatever you want. But I'm just saying like it, I don't want you in the pain of a heartbreak

to just burn the whole thing down because even just you retelling it just now, it sounds like there was some good in there. And if you find out that he was sleeping with somebody else or he's actually married and what, then yes, he burned the whole thing down. But I don't want to beat somebody up for giving it a go for four months and just saying, like, I just, you're just not the one for me moving forward.

Or maybe you're not the one for me right now. It's hard to hear, but I don't want to beat somebody up for that. You know what I mean? No, that's fair. I just wish you'd been more direct. Yeah. Yeah. That means a very car very Carol Lee way to end it for real. It reminds me of one of my students that walked inside one time with the head, one of my graduate students that had, that was told via text message they were, that his spouse was divorcing. And it was like, I couldn't believe it. I was like, what are you talking about?

But yeah, it, no matter what kind of throws of grief you are in. The person that you're exclusive with is worth a phone call. Hey, this is coming up on the week anniversary of our mutual my wife and your best friend her passing. I just need a week. This is a lot for me right now. Right to any two weeks. I need 30 days like whatever whatever. Like you don't just

starve somebody of relationship. Like that's just cruel. Yeah. You especially don't break up with somebody via voice text. Come on. You know what I mean? And also I want to give some compassion. It's the weakest wife of her anniversary and probably her kids, his kids are giving him hell and who knows what's going on. Exactly. And that's, I mean, I can't imagine what they're going through and so my heart's breaking for them on that front as well and I don't know it's just hard being getting to be so close to someone and walking through that grief with them

because that's how our whole friendship started really. And then to be, you know, when the rubber really hits the road, I'm just shoved off to the side. And not even really an afterthought. Maybe. He may not be able to sleep right now. Again, all these are stories you're telling yourself and you can tell yourself stories that make you mad and keep you up late at night.

You can tell yourself stories that make you mad and keep you up late at night You can tell yourself stories that help you sleep But just remember you get to because he's absent because he's quiet you get to be the author of the stories you tell yourself hmm, and Because of that I would choose to tell myself the most compassionate version of the stories that way I don't get an aneurysm on somebody else's behalf Mm-hmm Should I way I don't get an aneurysm on somebody else's behalf. Should I give him a little bit, like if he were to reach out in three or four weeks, should I kind of leave my heart open a little bit for that or should I just?

I mean, me and my wife broke up five times. So I mean, that's just me and that's not everybody. And we've been together for a quarter century. So I mean, that's just, I mean, I don't know if it's a matter of should I keep my, I want to live my life wholehearted all the time. And that means I'm going to have some above average wild, fantastic, amazing experiences. And that means I'm going to get hurt more than the average person and when I do get hurt it's gonna hurt real bad that's just a choice I have made because I'm a normally closed off kind

of guy and I realized I'm missing out I'm not protecting myself from bad stuff but I am missing out on the good stuff I just want to live like that exactly and so in four months let's be honest if, if you get a voice message from him and he says, I'm the worst, can we talk tonight? Your heart will race out of your chest. Right? And you might be dating somebody else. Somebody with a mustache who's way hotter.

I'm just kidding. I don't know if you have a mustache. Or you may not have or you may not have, your heart may not be at your chest at all. And you may realize, oh, that was just a highly charged, emotional four months that was kind of awesome and heartbreaking and now I'm onto the rest of my life. So I wouldn't prejudge or pre-guess what's gonna happen.

I would let your gut and your heart be your guide in four months or two months, whatever. I'm almost guaranteeing you he's going to call you at some point. Because I think if he was a person that lacked so much integrity and character to just completely ghost you via voice text forever, I think you would have known that on the front end. And that's the thing, like I knew enough from his life that he's an incredible man. Yeah, exactly. And yeah, and so that's part of why this is just so completely just confusing for me right

now. This is going to shock you, okay? And this is like really recent data. Some men don't know how to handle their emotions very well. Yeah. It's rare. It's rare. But I'm trying to imagine somebody who has fallen in love with his deceased wife's best

friend, gotten to making out in the whole shebang and his kids are sobbing saying, how dare you dad, you're abandoning us, you left us, you're going to move what? You're going to be a terrible granddad. Plus he's getting all these texts from people who put a little asterisk on their calendar like so sorry about Janet or whatever your friend's name was. That's just a lot. If what you know of him over the last two, five two five ten twenty years is that he's a good man Then the story you get to tell yourself is

He's a big tall proud man that stood up and found himself completely underwater Yeah, and I'm gonna tell myself that story cuz that's the most compassionate version I get to and that's gonna Let my heart rate not get up too high and I'm gonna go about my day with my heart broken because I wish she was still calling me. Or we've had a lot of conversations about grief. I wish she would grieve with me too. Because by the way, this is year one year anniversary also.

Yes, it is. Now we're a day apart. Okay, so make sure you write, no, you lost your friend a year ago, right? No, I did, but my divorce was finalized the day before she died. But I'm saying, all of it. So I want you to write her a one-year letter. That's a good idea.

And tell her you made out with her husband. But write her a one-year letter. Don't tell her that. Leave that out of the letter. That'd just be weird. But I want you to mark this moment for yourself too. It's a big moment for you as well. Okay?

That's a good idea. And call a couple of girlfriends and be truly break up sad. And when somebody breaks your heart or they don't call you back or they say, hey, it's just not a good time or I really gave it a run and you're just not my person. There is no other feeling to feel other than heartbroken and sad. And that's not a bad feeling. I mean, it's a bad feeling. It feels bad, but it's not a wrong feeling. It's not a pathology.

It doesn't mean something's wrong with you. It means your heart is ticking and your life is full and you're living full-hearted and whole-hearted and well, son of a gun, he broke my heart. That's what that means. Stephanie, call me anytime. You're one of my favorites. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, while the world seems like it's falling apart, we're all under pressure to perform.

And we're all under pressure to perform and look like we're keeping it all together at the same time. And we all know that support is good, but we're not even allowed to ask for it. Women are often told that they have to be everything to everyone all of the time and somehow they have to just intuitively know how to do it all. And men are often told they are the reason for every bad thing in the world and that asking for help means they are weak or less than. Here's a wild statistic. 76% of people globally agree that mental health care can help resolve personal problems, yet 6 out of 10 people still believe that

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That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney. All right, we're back. Let's take one of the anonymous money marriage questions help. Help. Help. Help. Help. Help. Help. Help. Help. Help. Help. Help.

Help. Help. Help. Help. Help. Help. Help. Help.

Help. Help. Help. Help. Help. Help. Help. Help. Help. which included me being sentenced to jail. There's not enough information here. I guess I'll go back to my core principles. Number one, never lie to your kids.

Number two, as my buddy Rachel says, share, don't scare. So you're not going to want to tell a seven year old, dude, guess what happened? Your dad murdered somebody one time and got sentenced to jail. I don't know what this transformational event is. I don't know if it's abuse I don't know if it is you were protecting somebody and you knocked their teeth out and you went to jail for I don't know what This transformational event is so I need way more context Here's what will happen your kids at some point will chat GBT and or Google you, they will find out that you went to jail, period. They will find that out or one of their friends will find that out and then they will tell

them. That's happening. That's coming. So if there's a big family secret, I recommend they hear it from you in doses that they can handle at ages that they can handle it. Yeah, that's what I'll say. I don't want to beat that to death. We'll call that is what it is.

Yeah, tell your kids the truth. Don't overshare, but secrets will make their way to the surface in family systems. They always do. Love you guys. Bye.