The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband’s Addiction Grosses Me Out

Episode Date: March 23, 2026

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My husband has been using nicotine couches for a couple years now, and I just find it really, really gross. Number one, I think Kelly is setting me up here. So mine is out now, and I can have this conversation more honestly. What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney's show. Taking calls from hurting people, regular people, fun people from all over the planet talking about their mental and emotional health. their marriages, whatever they got going on in their life. Let's go out to Portland, Oregon and talk to Emily. What's up, Emily?

Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm great. How are you? Honestly, I'm a little cold because I'm sitting in my car. It's like four degrees. Four? Something like that. That is unconscionable. That is too cold, said this Texan Nashvilleian. Jeez, that's freezing.

I agree with you. Thanks for braving the cold. for the call here. What's up? Yeah, so I wrote in because my, my husband has been using nicotine pouches, like the Zinn pouches for a couple years now. And I guess before that he was vaping and I really didn't like the vaping. So he switched to the pouches. And I just find it really, really gross. And I don't want him using nicotine. And yeah, I just want to know. if there's any way I can convince him to stop.

Number one, I think Kelly is setting me up here. Number two, I am going to take my nicotine patch out that I have in my mouth right now. Stand by. All right, so mine is out now. And I can have this conversation more honestly. So, all right, so you said a couple of things here that I want to. double click on, okay? Sure.

So what is his, when he tries to paint you this rosy picture of nicotine, what is he trying to do? What is he telling you? Well, he tells me that he, he thinks it's good for him. He thinks it's like he's self-medicating, maybe for ADHD.

And he says, you know, it makes me a better husband, a better father. and like it just makes his mind sharper and he likes to use it if he's stressed, but you know, then he just pretty much uses it constantly all the time. Okay, okay, so, well, I've got his story. Underneath your story, I heard you say you think it's gross, right?

And I've, a couple of times in my life grabbed a Coke that I thought was a Coke, and it was a dip can. And so that's disgusting, right? I've been there. And seeing a bunch of like water, up dried up pouches laying around somebody's car or house is disgusted. Like, I get all that. But I also heard underneath the, I think it's gross, is you don't believe him. Tell me about that. Or it's a moral thing. Like, I think what he's doing is wrong. And I think he's

making up a story about it to justify his actions. And that's what you find gross. Or like, let me say, Well, I both are true. My husband's weak. Yeah. Okay. I mean, that is the story that underpins it. And I don't want to feel that way. But that's how I find myself feeling.

And every time I see him with one in, which is all the time, it makes it really hard for me to respect him. Okay. Tell me about that. So I guess there's a few different layers to it. I mean, part of it is that both of his parents died of addiction. Okay. And I also... Um, his dad died of lung cancer from smoking cigarettes.

Okay. And then his mom died of alcohol addiction. Okay. Yeah. So his parents died when he was 15 and 21, respectively. Wow. Yikes. Yeah. So very young.

And, you know, my family have struggled with alcohol. addiction a bit too. And so it's a very addiction as, you know, broad brush is a very sensitive topic for me. Yep. And, you know, it's not something that I sort of play with, if you will. Love it. Okay. And, but I feel like he is just kind of playing with it. Like, no, I'm not addicted, but I am, but I'm not, you know. Sure. So here's what, what you said is really powerful. And I want you to hold it tightly, okay? The stories that you're making up are yours.

Your body's alarm system to anybody addicted to any substance is the alarm going off in your chest. Yes, I would say that. And I want you to own that discomfort and own that your body's trying to take care of you and not

create a story about morality or character. and dump that on somebody. Because the one thing I've learned about addiction is, yes, there's some insanely addictive chemicals. A few more addictive than nicotine. It's insane, right? I know, personally, I know, right?

And I'll tell you my story with them, but that's not as important as what I'm going to talk about here, is the addiction isn't the main problem. the main problem is the thing underneath it. What is that addiction working to support? Right? Right. So the hardest question your body has probably been asking since you were a little girl is,

what is so bad about me? What's so bad about us? What's so bad about this home that you have to do that? Yeah, that's pretty accurate. That is heartbreaking. Yeah. I remember saying that to him too, actually. like, you know, do you feel like I'm not doing enough?

There you go. Like if he's, if he's feeling so stressed and so uneasy in his body that he needs to turn to a substance. There you go. And clearly I'm not setting up the right environment. There you go. And what does he say when you say those kind of things to him? Well, I haven't said that to him in a long time because I forced myself to put it on the back burner so we could live. I know, but by putting it on the back burner,

you actually went all the way full circle and put all of your internal stories onto him. Yes, that's, yeah, that's fair. So here's the path forward is, hey, I want to talk to you about something. Here's what I'm seeing, and here's what I experienced in my home. You know this,

and I know you experienced this too in your home, and then here's the important part. The story I'm choosing to make up is. There was something, wrong with me when I was a little girl that was so bad that my parents had to drink just to survive my presence? The story I'm choosing to make up is you have to smoke, you have to vape, you have to use nicotine, you have to use substances because I have not set up a good enough home for you

to feel safe in. But I feel like that's true. Okay, but what I'm telling you is, it's not. It's false. And... So then what is true? What matters is less me telling you what's true and more you saying, here's a story I made up and let him have an opportunity to respond.

Okay. That makes sense. Your parents, listen to me closely. Your parents did not struggle with alcohol because of you, period. Well, I couldn't fix it. I know. You're a child. You're a kid.

That was never your job to fix. Yeah. And you have to stop beating up seven-year-old you. your parents' challenges were never on you. And I hate the fact that you were either forced or slowly developed over time, a sense of responsibility that it's your job to make sure mom and dad are okay.

That should be no kid's job. No kid can carry that. And if you're married to a guy who grew up in a home full of addiction, loss of parents at young ages, this is going to sound people are going to go if all he's doing is using nicotine patches

I'm going to say that's a huge win he has a very fragile nervous system yes that's yeah from how he grew up that has nothing to do with you and so in a strange way him using nicotine pouches so that he can stay regulated is maybe his weird way of saying

in a backwards sideways way I love you enough to do whatever it takes to stay with you. And is that healthy? No. No, it's not healthy. But what we can do here is then now I've made up a story. He responds. He's made up some stories.

Because here's his story. I can almost guarantee you. You think, the story I'm choosing to make up is you think I'm weak. You think I'm not enough of a man for you. You think I'm gross. and you might have to look at him and say that that I have made up those stories about you. And then you all get to do this one magic thing.

Decide this question. How do you want this home to feel when you walk in? You know the best way to learn how you can set up a home where he feels at peace? Ask him. Yep. Not try to imagine it and go around and try to solve it like you had to do with your parents.

Right. And he might say, oh my gosh, plop down on the couch with me and watch a show every once in a while. Mm-hmm. Right? I feel like he would probably tell me that he does feel like our home is peaceful.

Okay. Why do you think he's lying to you? Because he keeps reaching for the nicotine. I actually think you think he's lying because you have to reckon with you married a pretty good guy, a guy that you loved, and loving somebody has gotten you hurt your whole life.

Yeah. That would also be true. And you're not at peace in your home and you don't know what to do next. Hmm. And my guess is he could quit nicotine and start working out. And over time, that would become an issue with you. He actually, he does work out lots. Okay.

I'm making up something. But yeah, I know. My guess is your search for peace, you're outsourcing that to other people. It's y'all's job to create peace for me from the inside out. It's going to be a moving finish line that nobody can ever fully, fully run across. Mm-hmm. Is that fair? Yeah.

Yeah. I would say I don't really ever feel peaceful. Okay. So a weird thing. No matter. Even with the best guy, I don't. Yeah. How long have y'all been married?

Three years? Okay. Almost two years. Here's what sucks about our bodies. We're attracted to what our bodies are comfortable with what it knows. Mm-hmm. And you're going to have to, over time, if you want this thing called peace, you're going to have to wade through seasons of being uncomfortable

because peace, a guy that just tells the truth and it just kind of is and is awesome, and takes care of you and takes care of himself, it takes care of the home, that is going to feel unknown to your body. It's going to feel foreign. And so your body will be like, not comfortable, not comfortable, not comfortable, not comfortable. Yeah, I've definitely experienced that. And so give yourself some grace, man.

Yeah, that's hard. It's so hard. It's so hard. And a thing, you've probably heard me tell people on the show, I want you to write a letter to your seven-year-old self. Yes, I've suggested that he does that. Nope, you do that. And I should probably do that. I should take my own advice.

Let that girl off the hook. You're holding her hostage. And write a letter to your mom and dad. Don't ever send it. But get that story out of your body. Yeah, that's a good idea. All right. Can I be honest?

Can I tell you the truth now? The truth, truth, truth. Oh, is it going to make me cry? No. I'm going to actually, I'm going to be on your side for a second. Okay. Well, I'm going to challenge you and then I'll be on your side. Okay.

Both end. Sounds good. Have you listened to my short? show for a while? Long time. Okay. You know that I'm kind of a scattered mess, right? No.

Yes. I went to an event where they gave out a whole bunch of, it wasn't Zen, but it was like Zen like products. Yeah. I've never messed with any of that stuff ever.

And I did an n-equals one experiment. I want to see what this whole thing's all about. Yeah. And I will tell you, it made my brain feel like a laser beam. The words he used, I will fully confirm. I felt like a better employee, a better coworker.

One time, and Kelly will tell you, she came in here to the booth and goes, I don't know what you're taking now, but keep doing that because everyone, everyone on the team's got like an hour back in their life every day, right? Yeah. And so, and now I'm a raging addict. It got me. Right? And that's true too. And there is no amount of bending the truth that I can say what I'm doing right now is healthy for me. It's not. It's nonsense. And I have a date on the calendar that I've already agreed with my wife is when this ends. Right. Okay. So it's both and. And if the clinical data coming out right now at very low doses, one milligram, 1.5 milligrams, it can be. really enhancing

like cognitively. Right. Taking, going through a can of whatever all day, not good for you. And highly, highly, highly addictive. Yeah. So both are true. And so maybe approaching him with,

I actually believe you that this helps you stay focused. And. Oh yeah, I believe him. I have a story in my chest. that you're avoiding harder work. And I'm willing to do the work if you are. Or I'm going to go first.

I hope he'll join me. I'm glad that you love him. And I'm so proud of both of you from coming from really challenging backgrounds and deciding we're going to do something different. Like we're going to turn and stare down these old demons and we're going to unite together. and move forward.

In fact, I'm going to hook you up. I'm going to hook you up with the Together app. Hang on the line here. I'm going to give you, I don't know, six months or a year of it for free. Whatever codes we got back there. But I want you and your husband to download the app over in the app store. And I want you all to begin using this. And it's a way to each other to establish the trust from the inside out in your marriage.

Little tiny habits. Mike rabbit. It's going to be awesome. Hang on the line here. We'll hook you up. I'm so, I'm proud of you for loving him. I'm proud of him for making hard changes and for having this conversation. It's good. All right. Thanks for the call, Emily. We'll be right back. I'm always telling everybody how much I hate being online. And I know that sounds ridiculous because I'm everywhere online. I'm on podcast, social media, YouTube, all that. And because of that, my face and my personal information is all over the internet. This is why I join Delete Me. And just because you're not a podcaster, or a YouTuber doesn't mean that your information isn't also all over the internet. Everyone's information is everywhere. Your phone number, your home address, even old email accounts. It's all out there on data broker websites that buy and sell your personal information to the highest bidder. I don't want to worry about scammers having personal details about me and my family, and I know you

don't either. Delete me scans hundreds of data broker sites, finds your personal information, and they remove it for you. And they keep checking. on you month after month. Clean up the digital clutter and take back the parts of your life that you never gave permission to share. Go to join deleteme.com slash deloney for 20% off an annual plan. That's join deleteme.com slash deloney. I want to tell you about an amazing new company called Shady Rays and they have joined

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sunglasses. That's Shadyrays, R-A-Y-S dot com. Let's go out to Louisville, Kentucky, Lulville, Kentucky, and talk to Dale. That's the most Kentucky name I've heard in a while. What's up, Dale? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm good, brother.

How are you, man? I've been better. My question to you is, how do I begin to heal, build better, and learn how to trust again, especially trusting myself enough to be open and accept love from others after being cheated on and divorced. Yikes, man. How old are you? I recently just turned 30.

Turn 30. How recent is this divorce? So we were together for almost four years and married, not even two. and so from the time of when I first found out to separation and divorce, it was a period of six months. So my divorce was finalized right before Christmas. My goodness. And you found out your wife was cheating on you? I asked her straight up.

We had a little bit of, so to give a little bit of backstory, and you can, cut me off whenever you need me, you need to. But any great love story starts off by meeting at a bar. So we met each other while we were going to a bar that we both enjoyed going to, gone to know one another. And lo and behold, we were dating. And then six or seven months later, I popped the question to her, and she said yes. And the following year we got married. Now, to give even a bit more backstory or background is she was previously married, didn't have the best childhood upbringing. I don't, I didn't have the best relationship with my dad at the time came from a history of divorced families. But my mom and my dad,

they've been together for almost 35 years. But my ex-spouse didn't have the same blessing, if you will. And so she was previously married. She had her challenges. She ended up divorcing her spouse. And so we got married. First year was amazing. We've had a little bit of normal tips here and there,

as far as figuring out what we would like to do, to build a better future for us and potentially start a family. I had lost my previous job at the time recently after we got married, and I think that's when I started seeing the challenges and difficulties sort of arise. What challenges and difficulties? So, I, frustration and making sure that we were both on the same, page as far as what to do moving forward and just reassuring ourselves that everything is going to be okay and everything's going to work out if we we trust in each other and we trust and we trust

in God. And so I was having a bit of challenges as far as not in so easily mad, not so easily frustrated, and felt a little bit of pressure just making sure to provide for myself and for my wife. Yeah, but all that's right and good. Like, and I've let you, I wanted to hear you tell the story. Do you struggle with over-analyzing decisions before you make them? I would tell my friends, my AD is going full HD, so I overanalyze quite a bit. Okay.

And often that over-analization comes from a place where people let you know loudly that you make wrong decisions regularly. Is that fair? I don't give myself enough grace. Okay. Is that your story or is that you co-opting somebody else's story growing up? No, I would say that's my story. Okay. All right.

So here's a deal. You meet somebody. and this is, I'm going to sound heartless here, but I'm trying to clear the deck for you, okay? Because I think there's a lot of stuff on the table in front of you, and I want to just wipe it all away, okay? Doesn't matter where y'all met. Doesn't matter how quickly or how long it took you to ask her to marry you.

Doesn't matter that she spontaneously said yes. And then doesn't matter that y'all got married a year later. What matters is, y'all said I do. I'm in. And then right out of the gate, something bad happened. You lost your job. And the psychological research says losing a job, your body internalizes that as a loss of a person. Like, that's how heavy your body grieves job loss.

It's such an insecure, like, unstable moment that your body overreacts. So finding yourself more frustrated, more grumpy. That's completely normal. trying to reconvene with a brand new wife and say, okay, we just got, we just had got a flat tire right as we pulled out of the driveway of our new marriage. That for, for, it should be a moment that brings you closer together, right? And you feeling the weight of, oh, this doesn't just affect me,

this affects somebody else, that, that moment when you realize, oh, this squat bar is really heavy, that's a normal feeling. I'll even call it a good feeling. I'm glad you got to feel the weight of, oh, I'm married now. I've got bigger responsibilities than just me. That's where you find out who you are and what you're made of and what we need to work on. None of this provides an excuse for somebody cheating on you.

Oh, no, it gets worked. Not to joke and mean to say the least. But no, but eventually I found a new employer, and I even recently, got promoted and so I'm excited about that. Of course you did. But I don't, I don't have, I don't have the partner in my life anymore to celebrate that with. That's right. And, and, um, over time, when I, even when I found a new job and when it calls me to travel outside of state to, for work, um, I think there was just some sort of change of wants and needs

So, I mean, I'm more of a home body or... Give me here. How can I help you? Well, I want to learn how to begin to heal to trust myself and build the process of being open to accept love from other people because I don't trust anybody right now. Okay. I don't trust anyone outside of my immediate family and close friends. Okay. I think that's right.

You've got to really, I mean, what you're asking me is, hey, I just blew my knee out playing basketball. And you literally just got out of surgery. And you're like, hey, I need to know what to do so I can start playing basketball again. And I'm like, bro, we got to slow down. We've got to learn to walk again.

And so your body telling you people aren't trustworthy right now, it has a very real lived experience of getting burned. at a time when you needed somebody the most and that somebody happened to be a person who looked you in the eye in front of your family in front of the God you worship and said, I'm here, right or die forever. And they weren't.

We have a psychology if people stab us in the back. We do not have one when people stab us in the face and you got stabbed in the face. Yeah. And so I don't want you to go to war with your body right now. It's right. Don't jump back out on a basketball court yet, man. You're still in a cast.

What it will look like going forward is, A, truly being sad, truly grieving where you've been, and learning, when you say learning to trust again, that's not a psychological exercise. It's an action-oriented exercise, which means you have to risk getting hurt again. There's not a risk-free way of moving forward, but we're going to do it wisely. We're going to go step by step. And when you're ready to, quote, unquote, get back out there, meet somebody. we're going to start slow. We're going to start with coffee.

And we're going to begin to see, does this person text me back? Does this person call me back? Does this person show up when they said they were going to show up? When I explain, hey, I have been married before. I never wanted to say I'm a divorce eight. I have to say that now. When I say, hey, fidelity means a lot to me so I don't do well with secrets, is that person going to run away and say, oh, you're too much?

Or are they going to say, dude, I totally honor that? Yeah. the word I want you to keep in mind is practice. You have to practice teaching your body that not everybody's evil. And it just, it just takes time. But the underlying foundation to your question to me sounds like you think that something's wrong with you. And I want to free you from that, dude. There's not something wrong with you.

Yeah, I blame myself. I blame myself for what has happened. And I question why in the world did it happen to me? And what you're not allowing the possibility to exist is, somebody just chose to hurt you. And when we blame ourselves over and over, I think going to the mirror first is really healthy. I think reflection is really healthy.

And you can probably look back and say, as a brand new married guy, I wish I'd said things differently. I wish I'd done things differently. That's all true and fair. I would challenge anybody to look back on their first year being married and be like, that, I was awful at my first year and second year. I was terrible at it. And so that kind of

reflection is healthy, but it, it, it's like a false sense of security that if I did all the bad things that caused somebody to hurt me as bad as she did, then that means I can, I can somehow control that never happening again. And that's just, it's false. It's not true. Do you what I'm saying? Yeah, it's, it's, You have to metabolize the truth that if you want to be truly known and seen and loved, that that means risking that that person who fully sees you and fully knows you can destroy you. That's marriage, dude. And that's what makes it so vulnerable and that's what makes it so incredible.

Yeah, it's the vulnerability. And it's, I'm deathly afraid to go through that entire process. this again because I believed in my whole heart that I had found the one when she and I made that covenant and it blew up in my face. And it's just restarting over again. Write that guy a letter, write 28-year-old you a letter and let that guy off the hook. You're holding him accountable. You're beating that guy up. What did you miss? What did we miss? Let him let him off the hook, man. That guy did the best he could with the information and the skill set and the tools that he had. and somebody chose to hurt that guy real, real bad.

Do you another question? Yeah. Do you begin to forgive the person who has wronged you like that? Forgiveness is for you. Forgiveness is, think of it in this exercise. It's a cinder block that you're carrying around. Forgiveness is you choosing to say, I am no longer going to carry what you did to me anymore.

I've even encouraged people to do that in real life for a while. Go buy a cinder block and put a piece of duct tape on it and put wife cheated on me. Wife slept with another guy while she was married to me. And then literally carry that brick around for 20 minutes, 30 minutes, until your arms burn. And your hands can't hold it anymore. And then go somewhere in your backyard or out in a park somewhere and literally say, I'm setting you down. And then, like, here's the reality.

You can't stop the lightning bolt moments. There will be a weird time when you're having dinner by yourself on a business trip and it will flash into your mind her, a made up image in your head of her with that other guy. Every day.

Okay. The moment, you cannot stop those lightning bolts, but you get to choose whether you meditate on that or not. Whether you indulge that because that's your body trying to run a script that so freezes it inside of you that it never happens again,

but that's a false premise. And you may have heard me say this. I do that so much, especially in the past. I've worked so hard to stop that train of that motion picture that starts running in my mind that now I got pretty good control over it. But it started with me literally walking around my house and I would just yell out. I'd be like, nope. I mean, it got to be a joke between me and my wife.

I'm going to stop that line of thought. because my body doesn't know fantasy from fiction from reality. And it will respond with shame, rage, anger to that movie that I'm allowing to play over and over in my mind. Yeah, yeah, I want to, it's like I want to watch a different movie at this point. And I'm not watching the rerun. Yes, I don't think your body is failing you. It's trying to keep you safe. It's trying to make sure that you play this over and over.

So this never happens again. The sucky thing is, it's a fault. It's false. That premise is false. You can meet somebody amazing, go all in again, do all of your due diligence, do all the counseling,

and that person could hurt you again. And what I will tell you is, I think the risk is worth it. Because a good or great connection with somebody or good or great marriage has such outsized benefits on your life that I think the risk is worth it. But for you,

that risk is going to come very slowly again. We're going to go slow this time to take that risk again. And we're just going to be wise. Go slow. Be honest, honest, honest. And it is making some choices for the next 60 days, next 90 days, next 120 days. When these stories pop up, when my rage pops up, I'm literally going to pick up a brick and set it down and say,

I'm not carrying this today. I forgive you. I'm not carrying you. I'm not giving you space inside my chest any longer. And that won't magically make all of your anger evaporate, it won't magically make everything go away. But it is a conscious reminder to your body. I'm driving my own car now. You don't have to take over with your automatic stories, your automatic replays, your automatic setting off the alarm systems. I'm driving and I'm hurt right now. So I'm

going to go slow. And your body will go, okay, cool, you're driving, sweet. But it's a slow practice. Your body's not failing. Your wound is raw. All this is right and good. And I get a to begin to choose what I'm going to do, feel, think next. Actually, you know what? I retract that. You can't choose how you feel. Your body just does that. I can choose my emotional response to those feelings moving forward. And that's you regaining control over your life. Hope that helps for other. I hate you got burned like this man. I'll walk with you, my man. Call me anytime. We come back. A man asks how to cope with the guilt of choosing his family over his dream job. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

I've had some amazing mentors and friends in my life who are also amazing women. My older sister, my mom, my wife, again, also amazing women. And one of the common themes I've heard from all of them is that between caring for all of the people in their lives and all of the other responsibilities and expectations that the whole world dumps on them, they are under incredible pressure every day from all angles. and they're often encouraged to overlook their own emotional well-being to care for everybody else, to make sure everybody else is okay. Listen, therapy offers a space for women to learn how to create some sort of balance,

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first month. That's BetterHelp, h-elp.com slash deloni. All right, let's go out to Fort Worth, Texas and talk to Paul. What's up, Paul? Hey, Dr. John, how you doing, man? I'm good, brother. What's up with you, man? Oh, just one foot in front of the other. You know what I mean? Yes, sir. I do. Well, I'm calling today because I'm wanting to learn more about how to deal with or better understand some pretty severe feelings of guilt I'm having about essentially missing my last job pretty desperately. Okay, tell me about it.

Okay. So about four and a half years ago, I got hired into what I would describe as my dream job. It was the reason I got into the field that I started getting into, and it was a job that brought me a tremendous amount of, like, meaning and purpose and pride, which is probably a sin. Dude, pride is, no, pride is not necessary. I mean, like an extreme of it, yes. But being proud of what you're doing is not a sin. It's a good thing. Okay. So, but I mean, it was kind of job that, you know, like when I found out I got hired, it was, you know, call.

my wife with tears in my eyes like a big baby and it was the whole thing. So, um, started it. Um, and, uh, I knew this, what the schedule was going to be like going in. Um, and for the first six months, it was like, yeah, there's a lot, you know, I'm, I'm doing the what I'm supposed to do. This feels good. Like my self-confidence has never been higher, but the schedule is kind of not ideal. And then the next six months go by and it gets harder. And essentially I get about two, two years in and it just starts weighing on me. You know, I got to the point where even as much as I love the work as much as I love the job and the flying, I just got to the point where, like, I just missed my family, you know, my wife and at that time, one son. And so I talked to my wife

and, you know, we knew we wanted to have another child who came last October. And we made the decision, which was probably the hardest and easiest decision in my life, which is the best thing I can do is leave my dream job and prioritize my family. And in the moment, you know, right after we made that decision, it felt really, it felt really good. You know, it felt, I felt like I could look myself in the mirror and describe myself as the kind of guy that puts his family first. And, and they've always come first in my life. But, you know, the first month, settling into a new role, I felt pretty listless, and I felt a lot of, I don't want to say anxiety, but it was almost a certain kind of panic that said it, where I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing anymore.

What was your dream job? What were you doing? I was an aerial firefighter. There you go. All right. I was going to say first responder of some sort, but okay. Yeah, yeah. It loved it, man. The whole reason I started flying. Anyway, So, you know, then months, two rolls by and nothing's changed. And I'm kind of chalking it up to just, you know, hey, look, this was an important job and I miss it. But long, story short, you know, I'm about 18 months removed from it. And those feelings are still there and the intensity of those feelings hasn't changed. And the missing the job, that's not what's difficult to cope with.

what I'm finding difficult to cope with is when I find myself ruminating on my old job, and I can explain some specific behaviors that I'm doing that are probably beyond something that's healthy for an old job. But, you know, it's associated with tremendous feelings of guilt because the reason that I left was to prioritize my family. And I want to be super clear. if I rolled the tape back a thousand times, a thousand times out of a thousand I make the same decision. Okay, so let me jump in. So my friend Becky Kennedy,

she's a psychologist out of New York, she reframed guilt for me and it's completely transformed how I see it and experience it and call it out, okay? Okay. So she said what often masquerades is guilt is something completely different. guilt is a good feeling a biologically a relationally whatever word you want to attach to it it's a good feeling

when you violate your own values i believe you that you did not violate your own values here and so if we go down that thought experiment what usually it means that i am either taking somebody else's feelings and trying to hold them and manage them for them, or I'm not being honest with myself about the choices I can make moving forward. Okay. And so here's a couple of, I'm going to put my story onto yours, okay, and you feel free to tell me if I'm wrong, okay? Okay.

I have had a bad habit over my life of putting my identity in a, title. Ooh. Yeah. And my wife and I joke, when I was the chief student affairs officer, when I was the dean of students of a billion dollar college, she said, she'll say, I liked telling people that my husband is this job, not he's a radio personality. My dad, my husband's a podcaster. Right. He's a YouTuber.

Like that's like, and I feel that so much, right? Yeah. And so it's getting, like, if your identity is ever in a title, your identity is very, very fragile. And my challenge to you is, and this is hard because it's got some really powerful implications for what you do next, what is the purpose of what your identity has to be attached to a purpose. Yeah. And then you can do that thing anywhere. So if I look back on the thread of my life, when I was at Burger King as a 16-year-old through a 20-year-old,

I worked at Burger King forever, all the way till when I was a high school coach, all the way to when I was a dean of students, all the way till the job I have now, if I pull the thread all the way back, I can see my purpose in my life has always been to make a connection with somebody in a very short amount of time and let them know that I see you,

and I'm glad you're here. Yeah. And that is my purpose. There will come a day when YouTube doesn't exist anymore or podcasting goes away, right? Sure. Or when AI can take my, make me and I'm gone, like overnight, right? That will happen. That will come.

And if I've put my identity in being famous, if I put my identity in having a show, I will either, A, miss the life of my wife and my kids and the hunting seasons and the the winter and the summer, I'll miss all the beauty around me, pining away for what used to be. Or I will chase the thing until the end of the earth. And I'll find myself trying to get clicks and saying insane crazy things

and trying to keep myself relevant. And I'll find myself further and further away from the guy that I have to look at in the mirror every day. Yeah. Right? And I think I find myself doing some of those things. Like, for example, I'm still paying for a Patreon subscription to an industry-specific, like a wildland fire newsletter.

And that's the same thing as you still following an X on Facebook, even though you're married. Dude, okay, so the whole reason I wanted, I decided I probably should reach out to somebody about it, and I wanted to talk to you about it is because I had a thought a couple of months ago that was, kind of made me chuckle at first, but then turned kind of scary, which is that, like, what I'm doing, like, following my old job on social media and, like, tracking people down from videos that I've watched and see and stuff, it almost feels like a form of infidelity or something. You're cheating on yourself. You're cheating on yourself. And, dude, I spent 20 years in a career track. I knew every student affairs law.

I kept up with all the legal proceedings. I kept up with all of the fights. I kept up with all the funding issues of education and the department of it, all of it. And somebody asked me the other day a question about some higher education law and I didn't know the answer and I actually smile.

Because I had to make a clean break because it's not my world anymore. Yeah. And any energy I spend trying to prop that world up is me trying to prop up an old ego. Yeah. But here's the heart.

hard part about this. You have to ask yourself, what was it about that job? Because by the way, I reject the phrase dream job. Okay. Because it's like saying, I met the one. No, you didn't. You met somebody amazing that you decided I'm going to put all my cards on the table and hopefully she did too. Okay. Right? And so you had an amazing job. Yeah. And listening to you talk, it sounds like you had a ton you had a special skill you had a ton of purpose right

you got to see and help people every day see and help situations every day you're a guy that goes into challenging situations and helps others right yeah that's who you are my last job performance at the university I was before I took this job I had one needs improvement line

on my job thing you know what it was what's that you have to stop running into burning buildings and I told my boss, I was like, that's what I love. And he goes, I know, but now you're over those people. You're supervising those people. You've got to let them do their job.

And I was like, ah, that sucks. But I had to go back to what's my purpose. My purpose is to help hurting people. And now, if I can use my skill set and my training and whatever, and let 10 people go help that many hurting people, I'm actually multiplying what my purpose is. But I got to get over my ego and my identity. Yeah.

Yeah. And also, I have to find new adventures for myself. Well, yeah, that's something that I've kind of struggled with, too, because I think I recognize that it was like this kind of crisis of identity that was probably tied up. And yeah, a lot of ego. I mean, I just, I liked. And that's not bad. That's not bad. Yeah. It's a, it's a cool byproduct, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I talked to my mom about it a little bit, and you need to just find a different way to, you know, scratch that itch and fulfill that need or whatever you got to do with it.

I would go deeper than scratching an itch. It's deeper than that. Where are you showing up in your local community for people who need your help? Yeah. It could be volunteer. It could be joining a crisis team like I did. Like, I'm going to go every once in a while on a callout.

Like, where are you showing up? And here's the beauty of it. Here's how you know it's a true identity. Nobody else knows you're doing it. Yeah. It's not on a job description. It's not on a, I don't flash everything around. I don't have the security of having a badge in my back pocket.

But my neighbors know that I show up. Right. Yeah. And the truth is I'm really not. And I think part of that, well, okay. So another part of this is because I stopped doing the job to prioritize my family, I now almost feel a similar level of guilt if I try to do something that isn't spending time

with my family when I'm home, you know what I mean? Like even going to the gym for an hour and a half. But that's not guilt. That's, that's, that's, um, trying to think of the, of the word. Um, let me put it this way. The greatest gift you can give your wife and your children and your family. Yeah.

Is to be whole. and so taking care of being a good steward of your body is a true blessing for your family and so going to the gym is not a violation of your core values it is you taking how old your kids four three yeah my oldest son is four and uh you're taking his four year old but dad i want you here and you're shoving it in your own chest and you're trying to manage it yeah let him be four dude how awesome is that your four-year-old misses their dad that's amazing so go do the hour work you need to do so you show up and be fully sturdy and present when you're with them you getting to what's what was i put on earth to do and for you it's i was put on earth to be a good father and a good

husband and i was put on earth to go into hard situations when other people won't or can't so now your job is to find situations where you can be of like you can be of a good person you can be of a lot of you of value in that way. Yeah. That's definitely the, there's a that shaped hole somewhere in my life. And I think that, I'm going to put something on you that's not fair

because I don't know if I'm right, but I'm wondering if what you think is guilt is actually shame. Maybe. I've got a skill set and I've got a calling and I've got a purpose inside my chest and I'm not doing it because I want a four-year-old to be happy with me.

I don't know. if it's because of the four-year-old part, but there is definitely like a, the survivor's remorse is like the wrong word, but like, I'm wasting time. I could be doing something. Like I, you know, basically I find myself in a job now where on paper, great job. Nobody would ever complain about the job. But I'm just managing and flying a jet for a company and I'm just moving wealthy people from point A to point B. And it's just totally devoid of meaning. And there is almost a shame of like, you work really hard and you developed a certain skill and you're doing nothing with it. You're not putting it to good use, you know.

But is that true? Well, I'm not doing the work anymore. Yeah, but I mean, I guess there's 50 ways to look at it. Sure. But if you take care of a business owner and get him and his family or her and her family where they need to be safely, get them back home in a timely manner that they've got more time to invest in their team and their people.

That's true. It's a good word. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. And also, just because this was the next job doesn't mean this is your forever job too. Like, you're not stuck doing this thing forever. It might be for a season.

And that might mean I'm going to retool right now. That's why I went back to grad school. I'm going to do this job for this season and get really trained up in being a good mental health. practitioner so that one day I can do another thing that I think will contribute even more. And I'm going to contribute while I'm doing my job. I'm going to go all in on it. And I'm going to tool up for the next season of my life. Right. And I had no idea was going to be this.

But my challenge to you is get to the bottom of that hole in the middle of your chest. And then ask yourself specifically, what could I start doing now in this context, in this season, that will get me where I want to be in one year, two years and five years. And I think the action of movement, of going forward, of taking steps towards something, not just constantly trying to live your life, looking at the roofing mirror, I think that changes everything for you. And you've got to cut off the pornography. You've got to stop looking at the old images, the old pictures, subscribing to the old newsletters, that season in your life doesn't exist anymore. It's over. There's a period at the end. Unfollow her and go fully in and moving forward wherever you are.

Dude, I, man, I feel like I'm talking to the mirror here. I've been where you're at and I, it's haunting. But man, I'll tell you, there's peace on the other side when you unhook your identity from a job title and you hook it to a purpose. You can do that purpose anywhere for money, for free, for help, in lights behind closed doors. and when you do that, you live a very fulfilled life. You're awesome, brother. Thanks for your service and thanks for being a good dad and a good husband who wants to do this thing. If you ever come over to my house, you're going to find a whole bunch of cool stuff.

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dot com slash deloni and use code deloney and you'll save up to 20% off your entire order that's cozy cozy ze why cozy earth dot com slash deloni with code deloni bring cozy earth into your home trust me you're gonna love it all right kelly something cool happened what is it All right, so this email is from Kim in Ridgefield, Connecticut, and she writes. Last year, I watched the United States of Anxiety series and decided to follow the steps given to the participants. I decided to journal for 90 days to see if it made a difference in how I approached anxiety. Well, it became a productive habit, and today is day 414. Whoa, that's awesome.

Taking those steps helped me recognize some hidden roots from my past, which was hard, but healing. I shared my journey with others in a recent blog. post, which led to some great conversations with friends about things we're all going through, but that nobody talks about. So thank you for the work you and your team do to help us move forward without shame and to let us know the next best step. That's awesome. Charlotte, is her name? Yes, Kim. Kim. Hi-five, Kim. Good for you. That's amazing. That's awesome. Yeah, and we'll put in the show notes, I'll put the first episode of each of the two United States of anxiety, the links to those. Yeah. And then after you watch one episode, you know, it'll take you

the next, but that way if anybody wants to go back and watch those, they're fantastic. That'd be very cool. Yeah, that's awesome. The United States of Anxiety was a series I did with somebody who called in. I flew out and met with her and just walked alongside her for 90 days as she wrestled with getting to the bottom of wiser body, sitting off all these alarms. It was a pretty magical journey. And it was really amazing to watch her kind of come alive. And so go check out that series. We'll put the links in the show notes. Love you guys. Bye.