The Dr. John Delony Show - My Sex Addict Husband Continues To Relapse

Episode Date: July 11, 2022

In today’s show, we hear from a woman whose husband continues to relapse into sex addiction, a young mom questioning the behaviors of her controlling husband, and a man wondering how he and his wife should navigate family functions with divorced parents. Lyrics of the Day: "Oh Henry" - The Civil Wars Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. He's intimacy avoidant with me, acts out regularly with ex-girlfriends. He has chosen to continue a series of destructive behaviors that are blowing up his life, and most importantly, the one woman he said was going to be his one woman. What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, the greatest mental health podcast of all time.

Says nobody ever. Hey, we're so glad that you're with us. I'm talking about mental health, relationships, school, whatever's going on in your world, in your life. It's summertime now, so maybe you're not thinking about school, which is probably a good thing. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. I just left a meeting here And I wanted to pass this along One of the most Common Sources of angst right now I'm hearing from folks Is about inflation

Is about the stock market The real estate thing And I know this is a mental health show Not a money show But those Your mental health and your financial health Are intimately braided together They are woven together And those, your mental health and your financial health are intimately braided together. They

are woven together. And one of the things I'm hearing is that this is what we're experiencing right now. This is going to come out in July, mid-July, is we're experiencing the same thing that happened in 07, 08, which is in this going to be like the 20s, everything's going to implode. And I want us to remember about what trauma does. Trauma puts a GPS pin in a moment, in an experience that we have, whether it's an abusive relationship or the car wreck or the dad got home and beat us up or dad got home and yelled at us or dad got home and ignored us, right? It puts a GPS pin in those moments. And our bodies remember. So if you live through 07, 08, or if you were a kid, if you're in middle school, high school, and your parents lived through 07, 08, and the value of your home

cut in half, but your mortgage didn't, or you were one of your parents, or you were one of the millions who were laid off from their jobs and literally couldn't find work and had to move states just to find a job of any sort, right? Your body remembers that. And so if you're feeling stressed right now, you should be. Your body's doing its job. It's reminding you, hey, there's a lion here and it might eat us. If you are 50 or 60 or 70, you remember the 70s. My first savings account was at 13%. That's what I made on my savings account when I was a child. We were coming out of the, and that was in the 80s. We were coming out of this wild inflationary period in the 70s, early 80s.

If your body remembers those moments you remember that having a house a mortgage at 18 interest at 15 right so all here's what i'm saying all this stuff's important because your body's trying to tell you hey we're not safe we're not safe we're not safe and you dump on top of that a media ecosystem that is designed for one thing and one thing only. Not to give you truth, not to give you wisdom. It's designed to sell ads. And it sells ads by getting you to click on things. And it gets you to click on things by telling you, it's all coming down.

Because remember, as we talked about the show over and over, if we can point you towards, there's a bear, there might be a bear, there might be a bear. Click here to find out. Your brain is going to go, I got to know, I got to know, I got to know. All I have to say is this. The real estate market for folks is bananas. It's gone up like crazy. It's continuing to go up like crazy. And everybody's asking, should I buy a house? I've got to sell this thing. Everything's about to implode. It's going to crash. The data suggests relatively clearly that what's happening right now is nothing like what happened in 07, 08, nothing. And for the millions and millions of people who are sitting on the

sidelines thinking, I'm just gonna wait for a year and then I'm gonna buy a house at half price. It's not gonna happen that way. So here's what we got. Y'all know that my good friend Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, George Camel, we've got, they're putting out a live stream event that's gonna be for free for folks to get some data.

Facts are your friends. Remember, we say that all the time. Control what you can control. All those little slogans that we throw when people are stressed, when they are dealing with trauma, when their bodies are taking off on them, when they're anxious,

when they're buzzing, right? They're gonna answer all of your questions and unpack real, actual data in this live stream, okay? It's for free. Costs you nothing. It's a gift to humanity to say, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Everybody calm down. And listen, if it's's a gift to humanity to say, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Everybody calm down.

And listen, if it's the reverse, if the data was telling us, oh, this is about to implode, we'd do the same thing. Me and my buddies would be telling you, hey, this one's for real. You got to watch out. So remember this stuff. Facts are your friends. Buying a house is emotional. Right now, what's going on in our ecosystem with the media and with the inflation, politics, exhale. I know it's scary. I live it too. I live it too. I just lost

out on a place behind my house. I'm in the middle of it with you, okay? Register for free. It's going to be called Real Estate Reality Check check Register for the free real estate reality check live stream at ramseysolutions.com reality check That's it ramseysolutions.com Reality check it's going to be an hour. That's it. You can devote an hour of your life To getting some true data and exhaling Okay You can devote an hour of your life to getting some true data and exhaling.

Okay. The date is, where's, July 14th, right? So it's July 14th. Real estate reality check. RamseySolutions.com slash reality check. Go check it out. And by the way, let this be a primer. Anytime your body takes off on you, just stop and say, where can I get some truth? Where can I get some real information here? I'm going to examine these

feelings, examine these thoughts and ask myself, is this true? And if you don't know if it's true, and go get some data, right? And so that's what we're doing for you for free, or I'm not doing it. That's what my buddies are doing for you. All right. That's enough of that. So let's go to Ann in Los Angeles. What's up, Ann? Hey, Dr. John. I want to start by saying thank you for all that you do. I actually do think you have the greatest mental health podcast in the world. Yes.

And so I think you're awesome. Yes. And I appreciate the work that you're doing for people. Mom, is this you? Just kidding. Thank you, Ann. Thank you. John, go do your laundry.

That would be my wife who actually said those exact words today. All right. So what's up, Ann? How are we doing? Well, I've had better days. I'm not doing great if I'm being honest, but I have a kind of a two-part. Yeah, thank you. I've got a two-part question. How can I care for myself and shield my children from major trauma while choosing to remain in a marriage with my sex addict husband? And then also what more can I do to support him, my husband's recovery without further neglecting myself and my needs? Oh man. So tell me about the sex addiction. Yeah. So we've been married for eight years. We have two kids. They're ages four and five, two boys. And he has struggled with the sex addiction and intimacy disorders since well

before I met him. He's intimacy avoidant with me, acts out regularly with ex-girlfriends, former affair partners, sex workers, you name it. a lot of online infidelity, emotional infidelity, and physical infidelity. He does have significant childhood trauma, childhood sexual trauma, tragic loss of his father at a very young age. I also have significant childhood trauma, which I'm sure doesn't help the situation at all. I'm a big old seven on the ACEs score, but my husband has really short periods of sobriety,

followed by a relapse every year to 18 months on average. He's in and out of therapy with his CSAT, a certified sex addiction therapist, and currently not in therapy despite a relapse about six weeks ago. And I'm just living my life in a constant state of hypervigilance. I have severe PTSD, nightmares, panic attacks, triggering episodes. It's happening. Hold on. It's happening right now. Take a breath.

Take a breath. Take a big, deep breath and hold it for a second, okay? And let it out. so, so really I'm just trying to navigate, um, you know, how to be a mom to my two kids, be a, um, devoted and supportive wife and walking alongside him and his, um, his journey of recovery because he's, he's not a bad person. He's a really traumatized person and he you know has uses his coping mechanism is unfortunately a sex addiction which is extremely traumatizing for a relationship okay so let me hop in here let me hop in here okay let me hop in here i am gonna do a couple of things here i I'm going to tell you some hard truths.

Is that fair? Is that cool? Yeah. And I'm going to say some things that I know the internets are not going to like. Is that cool? Sure. Yes. Okay.

And you can take what I'm going to say and say, that guy's an idiot. He's a moron. Or you can sit with it for a season, okay? But what I'm gonna say is hard. The first thing is your husband's childhood trauma is very, very real. So is yours. Seven on the ACEs score is astounding.

That's really high. Yeah. And he has a choice. And so far, he has chosen to not be about healing. He has chosen to continue a series of destructive behaviors that are blowing up his life, multiple other women's lives, and most importantly, the one woman he said was going to be his one woman. Oh, and two little boys who are growing up looking at this play-by-play saying,

this is what being a man looks like, this is what being a caring, loving husband looks like, this is what being a caring, loving father looks like. This is what being a caring, loving husband looks like. This is what being a caring, loving father looks like. So when you talk about trauma, the language you use is a very common narrative in our culture right now, which is if this stuff happened to you, you are de facto broken as though you got in a car wreck and you smashed the bumper and that bumper is always going to look like that. And I am telling you that that is false. It's a hundred percent wrong. And where I know this is going to be hard the way I'm saying this, and I apologize, but I don't apologize. Okay. It's really easy for you to lump into, to fall into that, to take his behaviors and say, but it's because of, because if you don't, you have to look in the mirror and say,

my husband is continuing to choose other women over me, despite how much it hurts me. He's continuing to abandon his kids emotionally and just his whole parental, in every way possible. And so it's actually, it's a soothing force. It's a lotion, it's a balm to say, but it's because of this. And so I need you to hear me say across all addictions, there is no relational healing with an addict until the addict gets clean. It doesn't exist. And so if somebody comes into a therapy session and they're drunk, they have to leave, or they're an alcoholic, they have to leave and get clean, and then they can go do the work. But right now, your husband's choosing to remain connected to his addiction, not get well and heal. And so ultimately, you can't control him. You can only control you. And I say this very, very rarely, but you need to have a hard look at the ecosystem you're raising those boys in, and you have to have a hard look at your marriage.

Yeah. Is that fair? Yes. Is your childhood trauma one of neglect and abandonment or fixing? Absolutely, yeah. Okay. So this whole thing feeds a narrative that your body knows. It feeds a story that your body has been down before, right? And so part of you getting out of this thing is you deciding to get well.

Yes. Is that fair? Absolutely, yeah. I'm heartbroken for you. And you can probably hear it in my voice. I'm mad at him. I've never met him. And as a rule, I don't get mad at addicts.

I get heartbroken about addicts. This one feels different to me. This one feels, something feels off about this. And I'm just frustrated for you. I'm heartbroken for you. I'm mad for you. All those things. I can hear it in you. Well, I think that's one of the things I struggle with is when I do approach a conversation with some professionals or in the times that I've tried to share with friends or the very few family that I have, because I'm mostly estranged from my family.

I've lost support systems because of an attitude of, he's just a jerk. Sex addiction isn't a real thing. And then when I work with his actual sex addiction therapist and I learn and educate myself on the cycles and I see it differently, but I find myself isolating because it's such a misunderstood condition, it's not the right word, but misunderstood addiction that I'm finding myself just completely isolated because talking about it brings more shame for me, but also the fear of pushing people away or, or people having a, an image of our family and, and of him, you know, I want to protect him too, which I should probably shouldn't care so much about that, but. Well, but you, but you love him, but here, here's the thing. Of course, yeah.

Addiction, just like other, other issues that we talk about here on the show a lot, the addiction is a context, not an excuse. Right. You are being abused. Your boys are being abused. Okay? And he has an addiction. Those two things are, one does not cancel the other out,

and one does not make the other okay. But they can run simultaneously. So what that means is I might have to leave this marriage, but I'm not going to shoot him. I might have to leave this marriage, but I'm not going to be bitter and raged out. I'm going to be heartbroken. You see what I'm saying? The resulting action may be the same. How we, maybe we're going to parse out,

there's a difference between being a jerk and being someone who struggles with addiction. Great. I still have to make sure that I'm well and okay. And right now you're not. Right. And you deserve more than that. And yes, your friends are knuckleheads.

Sexual addiction is very, very real. And I've been with, not all, there's some extraordinary ones. But I've heard from addiction counselors that once they classify you with an addiction, it excuses all other behaviors and everyone around you just has to tolerate it all and that's nonsense too there comes a moment when somebody is an addict and they are hurting you let's just use meth

you're addicted to methamphetamines and they keep coming home and they steal from you and they are scary to be around and they're up for four days and there's holes in their face and there's holes in the face and there's holes in the drywall and the kids are terrified. There's a moment when I say, I love you and you cannot be here. You see what I'm saying? Yes. And so those are your, I don't want you to lump all like

addiction is not a free pass on your safety and addiction is not a free pass on your safety. And addiction is not a free pass on the example your boys are getting. Right. And you're going to have to really reckon with this marriage was going to be the thing that fixed you. Your body is going to feel this, what's happening right now. If you choose to leave this marriage, your body's going to feel that as a major trauma because it's going to be a trauma on top of one. Is that fair? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think that's why I'm avoiding that.

Exactly. I almost, I would almost be willing to guarantee it and I've just met you like three minutes ago, but yes, I would almost guarantee it. There's layers to this to this hurt for you. The question that you have to ask yourself is what are you going to do? And if you've made peace, my husband just sleeps with everybody.

Ex-girlfriends, neighbors, sex workers, whomever. That's who he is. If you can make peace with it, then make peace with it and stop going to war if you're not then you

have to own reality you have to acknowledge the truth here which is he has chosen to not get well for eight years he's chosen to not abstain from the thing that is killing him that is killing his wife then now it's going to not abstain from the thing that is killing him, that is killing his wife.

Then now it's going to hurt his kids. And the question is, what are you going to do? Right? Yeah. And listen, please know you're not by yourself in this. I am heartbroken with you. It's my opinion that sex addiction is one of the hardest addictions to clear because it's so deeply woven into a need right a human connection it's so prevalent in society

too if you know the internet has made things i think a lot worse for absolutely it's a mess alcohol you can remove it from a household because you can't take the internet away from the world. You can't take pretty women off the streets. You can't, you know, it's everywhere. It's like being addicted to water, right? Or it's like having disordered eating challenges. Like you've got to make peace with food because you can't just stop eating forever.

You can stop cocaine forever. You can't stop eating, right? So very, very similar here. And you can't be married and just avoid sex the rest of your life too because intimacy is a cornerstone of marriage, right? So all I have to say is, it's a mess. There is healing.

I've seen it. I've met those people. There's healing. His decision to go sleep with other people is not a reflection of you. Your inability to quote unquote fix him does not mean you're failing. Okay.

Yeah. I think on a cerebral level, I understand that intellectually and then emotionally, you know, processing it and really accepting that is a little harder. It is. I want you to, this is gonna be hard and maybe spend some time

with your counselor writing this stuff down, but you haven't been on a 10-year failed journey to fix some dude. And his choice to not be intimate with you

and to not truly try to get to the bottom of his addiction is not because you weren't pretty enough or because you weren't sexy enough or because you didn't do the right things or say the right things or walk the right way. He's got stuff in his heart and his head and his experiences that are heavy and hard, no question about it. But that's not a context for abuse. That's not a context for hurting you.

It's a context, not an excuse for abuse. It's not an excuse to hurt you. And it's not an excuse to drag two little boys through. This is what manhood looks like. And this is what fathering and husbanding looks like. I'm so sorry. I was one of those calls. I wish there was like some great magic dust I could sprinkle on this one. This one's a mess. This one's going to be hard. This is going to be tough to unwind. You're going to have to get a professional to walk with you.

Please do that because you are worth more. We'll be right back. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving and life change and job change, and you've got a tornado of anxiety fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make. This is not a good idea. So if you're a new home buyer right now, my advice to you is to focus on what you can control, like the people you choose to help you in the home buying process. You need folks like my friends at Churchill Mortgage.

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So go ahead, take a deep breath because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillemortgage.com slash Deloney and get the home buyer edge today. All right, we are back. Let's go to Emma in Las Vegas. What's up, Emma? Hi, can you hear me? I can. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. Hi, John. How are you hear me? Yay. Yeah, I can hear you. Hi, John. How are you? Excellent. You?

Yeah, good, man. Cool. So what's up? Well, thanks for taking my call. So hopefully this is an easy question. What I'm kind of wanting some help with is asking for what I need in my marriage. Kind of regarding like my, I don't know, like asking for money because I'm a stay-at-home mom with like a little baby. And just also asking for a bit of help

around the house or help with the baby when my husband is home. Why are you asking for money? Because I don't have the income and, oh, well I should also elaborate. Um, unfortunately my husband hasn't wanted to combine our finances. Um, and so he kind of just, he has the bank account. I don't really have any input with the finances at this point, which is a real bummer. Um, and so, yeah, I just kind of like when I need groceries and things for the baby, I have to kind of tell them like, oh, I need 100, I need 50, I need this or that, you know, and just kind of little bit by little bit ask for the things that I need.

Emma, do you hear that that's madness? Yeah, I know that's really far from ideal. it's it's past that it's past that um yeah again I don't want to throw this word around flippantly but that is really manipulative and borderline abusive if not fully Because you're basically an employee. Kind of, yeah. No, no, no, not kind of. You are a live-in nanny. Yeah.

Yes. That is not a marriage. That's not a partnership. No, that makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah. Well, I guess what I want is like, I guess I want to try and figure out if there's a way that, you know, by me being a little bit more assertive. Listen, listen, listen.

One of the most common responses. Oh, man. One of the most common no no no I'm starting to feel my blood pressure's going up man one of the most common responses to abuse

is I shouldn't have warned that or I was mouthing off and I deserved to be hit yeah or I'm late sometimes so I deserve to be hit. Yeah. Or I'm late sometimes, so I deserve to be fake fired every Friday or whatever. Yeah. I deserve to be yelled at at work

because I'm not as fast as so-and-so. Yeah. So the reason... You are not... Your needs aren't not being met because you're not, um, your needs aren't not being met cause you're not assertive. Right. Yeah.

Now you could probably improve your being assertive and you're like, I could be better at that. That's a skill that we can practice and work on. What we're just going for in your marriage is just basic. I can end it. Equality. Partnership. Yeah. What we're just going for in your marriage is just basic equality. Partnership. Yeah, I think that's what I, that's kind of a lot of the reason why I feel so yucky aside from the, you know, aside from the insecurity of like not having access to money for gas and groceries and things. But yeah, it's kind of like, oh, I just don't feel like he's treating me like a partner, like a wife. Like, I kind of feel like it's almost like a daddy-daughter thing.

It's 1,000% a daddy-daughter thing, except worse. It's a mean, let me put it this way. Every time I've been a boss of a large team, they all had money that they spent without, like, I don't, I can't, I can't process all of your questions. Here's your budget. Spend it on whatever you need to run your operation. I trust you. I wouldn't have hired you. So it's not even an employee-employer relationship. It's a really poor, abusive employer-employee relationship.

Yeah, well, it's just very, like— This is the mother of his kid. Yeah. I know. Yeah, well, I mean— Do you laugh? Listen, you laugh. Are you laughing because if you don't, you may start crying and you won't stop?

Oh, yeah. I mean— Okay. Yeah, for sure. I'm just, yeah, trying to keep it light, you won't stop. Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, for sure. I'm just trying to keep it light. Okay, okay. Because you live in the darkness. It's a little bit scary, I guess.

Hold on, hold on, hold on. This is terrifying. Okay? It's not a little bit scary. It's not a little bit scary. This is terrifying. No, it is. You're right. You don't know if you're going to have groceries or diaper money or gas money. Yeah.

Are you safe? Oh, yeah. I mean, physically, absolutely. It's weird because it feels like this is quite a specific area because he's never know it's weird because it's like it feels like this is quite a specific area because like he's never

really raised his voice he's obviously never gotten his physical he never puts things down he you know like in many regards

like if you took the money issue out of it like I'd say you know on the face of things it's quite a good relationship I know

there's a lot of like, man, if he just didn't hit me, it would be great. Right. If he just didn't sleep with my friends, it'd be an awesome marriage. I mean,

I wouldn't be putting up with any sort of physical or like major emotional stuff. I mean, I am, but you know, have you ever sat down? Have you ever sat down and said, um,

not in a fight, not in a, out of rage, but this is what I need. I need you to start treating me like a partner here. How did that conversation go? I think there was, he got very, very uncomfortable. I think, well, I basically said like, look, I would feel a lot more comfortable if we could combine our finances, work on a budget together, and just talk more openly about money and give me access to money so that I don't have to keep asking you. Yes. What was his response? He just said, on the combining finances issue, it was a hard no.

He said like, well, you know, I've been married before and she kept stealing money. And like, I've got it under control. Just trust me. You don't need to be involved. Don't worry about it. You're just really lucky you don't have to go to work and I'm taking care of it. That was basically how that went down. And so you hear like that of you're the crazy one here, hon. Yeah, that sounds bad. That sounds bad when I say it back.

Like you're nuts. That's gaslighting 101. Oh, you feel exposed because you have to ask me for grocery money and for diaper money for our kid and gas money. You're nuts. You realize how lucky you are to have me to ask? You realize, like, oh my gosh. Okay, so listen, I'm going to tell you something that I have no data to back up, okay? I got a buddy who's been doing this a long time

and working with people in their finances. Yes. A vast majority of the time in a situation like this where somebody won't combine finances, but on top of that, won't discuss it, won't look at it. You have to ask for money. There is some sort of addiction or some sort of other infidelity. Oh, that's interesting.

There's something else going on that says this is a brick wall that you cannot cross. Oh, no, I know what it is. I think. What is it? Maybe you should have led with that. What is it? Well,

it's just kind of now that you say it. Because I have been wondering lately, like the past year, I've been seeing some quite concerning behaviors around alcohol. And it's not everyday drinking. Okay. But once in a while, say every three to four weeks, on like a Friday or Saturday, because we actually live

like on the outskirts of Las Vegas. Okay. So he'll go into Las Vegas to like, you know, take care of some business or work a Saturday

and then he's just going to come home because he's drinking. Hold on, or because he's with somebody else. Or that. Because he's got

major gambling issues or any number of other things. Oh, yeah. Here's what I would say. He told me he used to have a gambling problem, so maybe that was it. Ta-da. Yeah, I don't know.

Here's the deal, Emma. Ultimately this. We won't know that. So any energy we spend wondering if it's another girlfriend or if he's got a gambling issue there in Vegas or any of that energy is a waste of our time. Okay? Yeah, yeah. That's kind of irrelevant to me. Here's what we can focus on.

I call it the or what statement. And everybody in your situation, anybody who's got a spouse, who's doing things that they, that hurt them, that scare them, that make them uncomfortable all the way up to just annoying. They have to have an or what statement. And here's the or what statement.

You have to fix your behavior, spouse, or what. And so the question you have to ask yourself is, if this goes on for another three months, another six months, another six years, are you going to leave? Are you going to stay? Now, don't answer that. I just want you, that's, if you're not going to leave? Are you going to stay? Now don't answer that. I just want you,

that's, that's, if you're not going to leave, if this is as good as you think your life's going to get, and you think he's being on the up and up, and man, it's annoying, but I just,

I'm going to have to ask if I need to go get lunch, meat and grocery money. And then when little Timmy needs clothes, I'll just ask and hopefully he'll give me some. Are you going to live that life? Or at some point, are you going to say enough's enough? I'm out.

Because when you have the... Go ahead. Go ahead. I was just going to say, I've given this over the previous months. Yeah, I don't think... I don't feel like that's a particularly good example to set to our little one. So, I mean, for now, he's not aware.

What example? It kind of gives me a window. You don't think you leaving is a good example or the way you're being treated is a good example? No, the way I'm being treated. I don't want my son to watch that. Correct. Right, right. But hey, listen to this.

How old is your little one? Four months. Please absorb what I'm about to tell you, okay? Every time your husband comes home and you don't feel safe or you start performing

to try to get favor so you can get grocery money or you try to nuzzle up so you can get gas money or whatever your mechanisms are for connecting. Your heart rate goes up a little bit. Your skin gets a little bit clammy. Your chest gets tight. Your stomach gets that warmth when you hear the garage door open. Your four-year-old is absorbing every bit of it. Yeah.

Okay? So you think that four-year-old can't hear and can't process and can't see, or four-month-old, you think that four-month-old can't hear the words, that four-month-old, you think that four-month-old can't hear the words, that four-month-old's picking up on everything.

Yeah, I know. I think about that too. Everything. Now, I don't say that to shame you. I say that to say, at some point you're going to have to make a call. And I see it happen. People punt the call down the road and down the road.

Well, now we're in middle school. Let's just get through middle school. Now that ninth grade, we got to graduate the high school we started. Right. It never is good. So ultimately, you have to get with a couple of people in your life, some women that you trust,

a counselor of some sort, a church pastor, whoever, wherever you get wisdom and community from. Yeah. And you have to sit down and be very concrete about your or what statement. Okay. Or what.

Yeah. And then you have to be very clear about, here's what I need. Here's what I'm worth in a relationship. And we're going to start at equal. Yeah. Yes. Great.

You're at work. Wonderful. You get hammered and you don't come home for a couple of nights it down in vegas cool yeah um i'm raising the kid and i'm making sure the kid's fed and at the doctor's appointment when i have gas money that you've so graciously passed along to me i make sure that we're all the house is fed when I'm so blessed that you give me grocery money. Oh, it's so great and generous. Right. Right, you hear what I'm saying? I do.

I hear it back and I just feel like- It's madness. It's madness. Yeah, it's nuts. It's nuts that I've put up with it for any amount of time. I mean, I guess here we are, so I just want to try and, yeah,

try and strategize about what is the best way forward. It's not like the best way out of this necessarily, but the best way forward. And I'm not,

I'm not against leaving. I have plenty of family and friends and, you know, options. So let me tell you this. I could absolutely do it,

but it's just, it's scary, you know? It's very rare. It's very rare It's Man I feel like I'm Debbie Downer today It's very rare that somebody who Treats people like this out As a way of being

Is able to Have somebody lay their relational needs out And they go, oh my gosh I was way off My bad. That's pretty rare. I wish I could give you data to the, I mean, otherwise. Man, what a mess.

I think for the first, hear me say this, you're not crazy. That angst you feel, that fear you feel, you're not crazy. You're not. What's being done to you is wrong. It's not right. It's not how wives,

or husbands should treat their wives. It's not how husbands should treat their kids. It's not right. should treat their kids. It's not right. And I'm sorry. Man. My hope is you sit down and say, hey, here's what I need, or I'm out. I need this from you.

And I need you to learn how, because you may not know how to tell me that you love me. You may not know how to show. You may not know how to trust. And you trusted once and you got burned. And so you shut that part up. Great. But you chose to get married again. And by choosing to get married again, you chose to become partners again. And if you don't know how to do that, it's like this. You're playing football and you blew your knee out. Said, I'm never doing that again. Cool. But then you got back out on the field.

And when you get back on the field, you got to do football stuff. And if you're going to do football stuff, that means you're going to have to go to rehab and learn how to run again. You're going to learn how to move laterally again and how to jump again and how to tackle again. So he chose to get married again.

Great. That means he's going to have to deal with what happened and learn some new things. Most of the time they don't. He could. He could. That's my hope, man. That's my hope. That's my hope. That's my hope. I'm optimistic this one has a happy ending, but this one's going to be tough. Get with some people today. And for the first time, let your needs be heard. Speak them out loud.

Here's what I need. Not with laughing. That's how you cover it up. Don't laugh. Just say, this is what I need. This is what hurts. Then really get clear about your or what statement. Oh man, this one's hard.

We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work.

We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live

an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney.

All right, let's go to Austin, Texas. What's up, Jeremy? What's up, John? What's up, John? How you doing, man? Hey, we're partying. And you guys, it's a thousand degrees there, man. What are you doing to the weather?

We kind of skipped all of spring and just jumped right into late August. It's kind of, you know, we're staying inside. I was there a few weeks ago.

It was something else, man. Like, I grew up in Texas and I was like a few weeks ago. It was something else, man. Like I grew up in Texas. I was like, this is not Texas hot. This is hell hot. This is hot, hot. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of ridiculous.

It's, you know, everyone, yeah. Everyone that's older than me, like keeps saying, oh, it just reminds me of 1980. I'm like, I wasn't alive then, but I agree. It's hot enough to remember that specific date. Cool. Thanks, man. Cool. Cool. That's great. All right. So what's up, man? What's up? Yeah. So I'm trying to figure out how to plan my eight-month-old first birthday, first year birthday party, which sounds relatively simple. But my wife and I keep getting stuck on the question

of what to do with our parents, so our son's grandparents, which both of our, my parents are divorced, my wife's parents are divorced, and didn't think about having divorced grandparents. Oh, you got a bunch of grandparents, don't you? Yeah, six, six, and potentially in the future, maybe eight. Wow. Who knows? Why not, man? Why not?

Yeah. So, like, we dealt with that as kids. That story is, you know, unfortunately pretty common. But I hadn't ever thought, and my wife the same way, we hadn't thought about what that looks like for grandkids or even how to deal with those situations. And we really, really want to avoid those kinds of pains and everything that goes along with the divorce for children. We do not want our son to even get a hint of that. So part of it is like, what do we do with these events? So starting very practically with his... Some of these grandparents like these sort of events, and they're really big on it.

So initially we were like, let's just invite them all, and tell them to suck it up. And then I would think, wouldn't that be awful if they all showed up? Okay, so let me give you a couple of quick things you can do to frame this whole thing. Okay. Okay, yeah, please. Number one, a birthday is the way you tell somebody you love them. Yeah.

It is not an event to show the world how rich you are, how cool and creative you are, or it's not an event for honoring grandparents. They get their birthday. And so start the planning of this thing by taking them completely out of the picture. Okay. How can we best honor this little one-year-old kid? And that might be a couple of friends that might be going to the zoo. how can we best honor this little one-year-old kid? And that might be a couple of friends. That might be going to the zoo.

That might be, and this is going to sound crazy, that might be getting a hose and letting it run in the backyard for 20 minutes and making a big mud hole and y'all just sitting in it with them and then getting some cupcakes. You know what I mean? Your one-year-old will think that's the greatest party ever. And then when they're looking at pictures and they're 10, and they're like, what is that?

And they're like, that's when we had a mud hole birthday. And the 10-year-old will go, that's amazing. And then the 18-year-old will be like, did we really have a mud hole birthday? And you'll be like, yes. Number one, we have 111 grandparents, and we didn't want to deal with it. Number two, you love mud holes.

You see what I'm saying? Yeah. And I guess the rest of my question would be, I guess all of it, the rest of it is boundaries. There you go. You're going to be like, hey, we want to have a party at our house, and we want to have a party at our house, and then our house. So here's the beautiful thing.

We're not going to any of those. Okay. I want you to repeat after me. It's going to be amazing. Okay? All right. Take a big, deep breath and hold it. Hold it.

One Mississippi, two Mississippi, three Mississippi. Okay, let it out. Are you ready? Repeat after me. No, thank you. No, thank you. Or even better, we're not going to be able to make that this year,

but we will consider it next year. Yeah, that's it. That's a good one. Okay. We need that one a lot, actually. Yes, you should. So both of your parents have made choices in their life for various reasons. Right.

And those choices have consequences that extend beyond time. My dad used to tell me to picture all of my choices like throwing a rock in the middle of a lake and those ripples just keep rippling out and they end up on different parts of the shore of that pond minutes and sometimes hours later, right? So they made choices and they continue to make choices. Your child, your eight-month-old, is not in service to the choices they have made. Absolutely, yeah. Okay? And neither is your young marriage

and neither is your parenting. And so here's, in all honesty, here's how I would handle this. Okay. I would get with my wife and say, what do we want to do this year that will best honor our one-year-old? Hmm.

I think having family involved honors a one-year-old, right? It's generational. It's all those things. What is the best way we can do that? Are the adults in our life mature? Do they act like morons? Are they going to act? Because if they are going to show up and pick fights and so-and-so is going to be

drinking and uncle so-and-so is going to be smoking Marlboro Reds in the living room, whatever the thing is, that's not honoring that one-year-old. Right. Right. So it may be that you send an email out to everyone and say, we are not going to split up and do 50 different birthday parties. We're going to do one. If you can be adults and everybody show up at the same time, then you're all welcome at our house at this time. And we're going to have hot dogs and cake and it's over at three. That's it. It's over.

If you can't, then great. No worries. And I would leave it at that. Yeah. Or the adults about it. That's right. Or we are choosing to have a friend's only birthday this year for the one-year-old birthday. We'd like to celebrate birthday with you. So at Christmas, when we come visit or when y'all come visit, we're happy to celebrate birthday with you. So at Christmas, when we come visit or when y'all come visit, we're happy to celebrate the birthday then. And that would be it. That would be the half birthday. The reverse half birthday, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's establishing those boundaries and then do not budge. And this is your, is this kid number one? It is kid number one. Okay. So it's kid number one and birthday number one.

So when you put these boundaries up Expect there to be grenades And missiles And bulldozers Slamming up against your boundaries to see if they hold For sure There will be adult temper tantrums There will be all the things

This is about honoring that kid And one other quick piece of advice for you Yeah absolutely You cannot hide the fact That there's divorce in your family from your child This is about honoring that kid. And one other quick piece of advice for you. Yeah, absolutely. You cannot hide the fact that there's divorce in your family from your child. Right. Yeah, yeah. We're not trying to hide the fact necessarily.

Just be the, I guess it's just a fear of like him having to go through the things that we did. And that's just a matter of my wife and I not getting divorced, really. Exactly. Y'all have worked really hard on your great marriage. And by the way, setting boundaries like this together is one of those tactile ways to solidify your marriage, right? Yeah, for sure.

It's a coin in the bank, right? That's where that team bond really develops. Yes. And so play the scenario out with your wife y'all can make a fun game of this um or it could be a teary mess of a game because all of us have that picture of that first birthday and all the adults are around and they all got just the right gift and everybody's blowing out candles everybody's acting mature and then there's reality.

And it may be— I'm in favor of the mud hole, man, honestly. Like, I think I grew up—I'm not a fan of birthdays. My wife is into birthdays, and her side of the family is and everything. So, like, a lot of that pressure is just, you know, birthdays are important. I'm like, eh, it's just another spin around the sun. But I think what you're saying about it being a marker of honoring our son is a really, really good way of thinking of it. I think birthdays and funerals are moments to pause and let somebody know, I love you. That's why you never miss a funeral. Because like a birthday, everybody gathers in a room to say, I love you. That's why you never miss a funeral because like a birthday,

everybody gathers in a room to say, we love this person. And birthdays are similar. And if people cannot act, I don't care who they are, if they can't act with maturity and they can't act not for their own sense of self, but on behalf of this little one. And this little one's gonna turn out to be a 17-year-old,

right? And people buy crazy gifts, but they buy gifts because they've turned it into a competition. I've talked to folks whose in-laws compete to buying presents. One in-law is super wealthy, one's not. There's a million different versions of this.

All those dynamics exist in this situation. Of course they do. We don't want to deal with any of that stuff. different versions of this. Yeah. All those dynamics exist in this situation. Of course they do. It's kind of like, we don't want to, we don't want to deal with any of that stuff. So we're just going to opt out. And it might be this, it might be that you say,

we're going to alternate year after year. And so just like in my family, we do Thanksgiving one and we do Christmas the other, me and my wife do with our separate families. And then this year, this year, I think we're going to blow it off. This year, I think we're going to blow it off. This year,

I think we're going to blow it off and we're going to go do Christmas like just me and my wife and our two little kids. We're going to go on a trip. We've never done that. That's not how we do it, right? That's our life.

We can do whatever we want to with it, right? Exactly, exactly. And so it may be that, hey, this year we celebrate it with this side of the family. And next year, this side of the family gets invited to the birthday party. But all I have to say is let's start with that one window and then work backwards. Is that fair?

Right. And I imagine at some point, you know, our son is, we're going to give him agency into some of these decisions about what he wants to do for his birthday. But, you know, for this first one, that's our first kid, and we're just trying to be as intentional as possible with exposing to as much love as possible, but also balance it between the crazy. These are all his grandparents.

Love him, love him, love him. No doubt in my mind about that. It's just all this history that they've... what you're talking about with the ripples in the pond has come down to the third generation. So we're trying to figure that out. And it may be,

man, it may be one of those shapeshifter moments for your family. But a joint email from you and your wife to everybody that was just called it out. I don't know if I recommend this. I'm just going to think out loud real quick, but just call out. We're all adults here. We all, me and wife or wife and husband grew up as children of divorced parents. It was hard.

There was lots of back and forth. There was lots of chaos. There was lots of fights. There was lots of new marriages. There's lots of new girlfriends and boyfriends, whatever y'all's story is. The key there is chaos. The key there is angst. And we have committed to not putting our kids through what we experienced. Now, you saying that out loud is going to put your parents on the defensive. Yes, that happened. They have to own that. Yep, we got divorced for whatever. Well, it's because Billy slapped with Susan. I don't care why it happened. It happened. And we're committed to not doing that. So if y'all can show up to a birthday party and be adults, no presents allowed, none,

no presents. We do not want your gifts here. We're fine. If you want to have a gift, put an endowment in a college fund. I've opened a 528. You're free to put money into that. That's going to be his gifts forever. If y'all can show up and everybody's here and everybody's smiling and everybody's fun and there's no tension, great. If you can't, you can't. Cool. We're just not going to have you. And we'll see you at Christmas or we'll see you at Thanksgiving.

And if you're going to act super immature or be abusive or decide I'll never see you. There's something powerful about that. It will cause problems. Make no mistake about it. It will cause problems. But there's something that's just like, I don't know, man. I kind of like it.

This is just where we are. This is where we are. But all I have to say is, get with your wife and y'all get really specific. How can we honor this little one? How can we show this little one? Your wife's right, by the way.

Celebrate birthdays, man. They're important. We love you. We love you. And then set those boundaries with the family. And then hold firm because they're coming. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up?

Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life.

Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back and I'm an idiot. Listen, it's a 529 plan. I know this. I know this. They're probably going to put some graphic making fun of me. 529. 529. That would have been one of those cool things you could have told me real time, but whatever. Jeez. One number off. I let the team down. But as we wrap up today's show, I want to thank this massive studio audience of three. And it's always so weird to talk about sex to callers in front of parents and their kids. It just always makes me have the heebie-jeebies, but good luck to y'all. Hope your lunchtime discussions are fun. The song is by

a great band, the Civil Wars. Please, good folks, come back. Come back to us, Civil Wars. The song's called Oh Henry, and it goes like this. Oh, the grass is green everywhere but under me, or so it seems. I got a wedding band in the name of a wandering man. I love the best I can.

Oh Henry, have you got something to tell me? Because everybody's been saying you've been running around. Oh, Henry, I know you wouldn't hurt me. Don't you know that we don't need one more grave in this town? If you're smart, you'll know only, you'll know you'll only have my heart till death do us part. That's a good song.

We'll see you soon. Coming up on the next episode, the last Dr. John Deloney show ever. You want to know why? Because we're going skydiving. Huge. I want you all to know it's been fun. It's been super, super fun.

On my job site, I spoke during safety week about my experience with mental health and anxiety. And I've gotten a lot of really good responses out of it. Dude, you had a mental health conversation with construction workers? Yep, yep. There are a few people I assign the word hero to, and what you do is heroic.

My mom saw something on TV, and she's like, could you buy me this? I was like, yeah, I'll buy it for you. So I went to go buy it, and come to find out her debit card. She let him hang on to her debit card. And they've been spending all of her money for the last two years on their rent, on their car payment, on everything in their world. I just don't know what I can do to tell my mom because my mom keeps trying to call him. He's not answering. Here's the full stop truth.

Okay. Your brother's a thief, and he's not a person of honor.