The Dr. John Delony Show - My Sister Has Anorexia and It Makes Me So Angry

Episode Date: September 28, 2022

On today’s episode, we talk with: - A woman unsure of how to support her twin sister who’s battling extreme anorexia (5:45) - A mom struggling to accept that her son is having a baby with an online “acquaintance” (25:40) - A husband who’s jealous of his wife’s success (41:08) Lyrics of the Day: "Everlong" -Foo Fighters Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. She was first diagnosed with anorexia when we were 14. For several years, she was in and out of hospitals and treatment centers. And she's back now, basically where we were when we were 14. And extremely severe. But the reality is, is I am angry. What up, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, the greatest parenting and marriage and mental health podcast ever created. So glad that you joined us on this beautiful day, this beautiful morning out here. I'm in Nashville, and wherever you happen to be listening to this podcast, I'm glad that you are joining us or watching us on the Internet, on the YouTubes.

If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 and leave a message, and we'll give you a call back. All right, so drumroll. Maybe they'll edit a drum roll in there. Probably not. So for the last few months, I've been getting direct messages and emails, and even a couple of people have sent cards and letters saying, asking,

what happened to James? It used to be John and James and Kelly back in the basement, back on the first floor down in the hole. And then we moved up to the big kids studio and then James and Kelly and I came up here and we made YouTube magic. It sounds gross, icky, but slowly James faded away. Like the old Neil Young song, he was here a few less days and then a few less days. And then I would look up and say, James, James, James.

And he was just gone. And so people have been asking, what happened to James? Did James get fired? We can all hope, but no. He actually quit. He quit my show. Actually, here's the truth. He is like the executive producer of this.

No, I don't know what you do. What is your job now? Producer. He's the producer. A senior producer. What's the senior executive? Listen, he's really fancy. And he, on the side, got this show off and running off the ground.

And turned it, I mean, launched it into what it is. And so there's a 100% chance that none of this show exists. None of it without James. And he was instrumental in being my friend. And we'd go out and have drinks and try to figure out like, hey, you can that on the air because you sound clinically insane and i don't know what you're talking about and i would get mad and throw a temper tantrum because i was acting like a nine-year-old and i didn't know how do you anyway i didn't know any of this stuff and so james has fully transitioned out of this show and he is the senior producer of a bigger, fancier show. I was giving him a hard

time because there's always those stories, right? When you're watching like behind the music, when they're like, I was in this really big band, but I believed in the little band and I joined the little band and the little band has taken over the world. That's James opposite story. He was like, man, I'm working on a really famous thing and I'm helping this idiot out. I'm going to stick with the big famous thing. So well done, James. Well done. But in exciting. So on behalf of America, James, thank you.

And honestly, on behalf of my family, you helped change my whole family's life. So thank you so much. Behind closed doors, I did do something I never thought I would ever do. And for those of you who are waiting for the pause, you know, there's just a very few things that I wouldn't actually do because there's not a lot. I wouldn't just give a shot

just to see what would happen. But I bought James' offender Stratocaster. It's the first and only time I've ever purchased a fender product. No, actually, I bought an amp. Now it's happening now. Now it's like a slippery slope. But anyway, James, actually, I bought an amp. It's happening now. Now it's like a slippery slope. But anyway,

James, thanks, brother. Appreciate you. And, in further exciting news, Kelly is now the, are you a senior producer? You're running the show.

Kelly is driving, kids. So what's your, are you senior producer? I'm producer. Producer. All right. We're going to work really hard and get you to senior That's the goal. I don't know what the goal is. I don't know your world and Jenna is

Can I say you she's the new Kelly you the new associate producer associate producer? Ben is running the the era the board which is dope We got all cut man. We got it's Andrew over there on the computers on the screens But sometimes it's Nate dog. I don't ever know what's going Andrew over there on the computers, on the screens. But sometimes it's Nate Dogg. I don't ever know what's going on over there. But listen to this good news, though. Since Kelly has taken over as producer of the show,

it's gotten millions, literally, more listeners and followers. And so I think when it all comes down to it, Kelly's doing a better job than James, but James got it off the ground. I got to talk bad about you because you left me, you broke up with me and now I have to inflate my own ego. But so that's where James has been.

That's where James is going. And he just stick his head in every once in a while just to make sure we haven't completely gotten off the rails. So brother, thank you so much. I'm grateful for you. Kelly, I'm trusting you with everything. I'm trusting you with everything.

We'll see if that's good or not. It's been my lifelong dream to be a YouTuber, and so don't wreck this train for me. No offense, but I don't know if the train wrecks, if it'll be all my fault. I don't think this train even left the station. All right, let's go to Margaret in Arlington. What's up, Margaret? Hi, how are you?

I'm sorry to hear about James. I know, what a quitter, right? But it's okay. It's okay. We're doing good with Adam. People got a great game. That's right. We got, yes, we got two brilliant women running the show now, so that's awesome. What's up? Yeah, so I will first thank you for taking my call um i was hoping um that you could

give me some advice on how to um basically let go of the anger and resentment that i feel towards my sister so that i can better help her and support her through her eating disorder and recovery. Oh, man, that's tough. How old is she? How old are y'all? Well, we're twins, and we're 33. Oh, good. Lead with that, Margaret. Lead with that. I know.

So 33 twins. This is extra personal. Yeah, we're pretty close. Tell me about your sister. Well, so we're 33. She was first diagnosed with anorexia when we were 14. Have you ever wrestled with disordered eating? No, no, not me personally.

Have you ever wrestled with any sort of anxiety? Yeah. Yeah, I had some bad postpartum anxiety and depression a couple of years ago when I had my daughter. Okay. What about when you were young? I'm sorry? What about when you were young? When I was young? No, no. But it does run in my family. There's depression in my family and my dad is bipolar. Okay. So there is some family history with mental illness there. But 14, 15, 16, like your childhood, your teenage years, you walked alongside your sister while she was really struggling, but you didn't have similar struggles just somewhere else? Correct. Okay.

Wow. Okay. All right. Go ahead. So, okay. So she, she's 14. We were 14 when she was first diagnosed. It was very severe for several years. So, okay, so she's 14. We were 14 when she was first diagnosed.

It was very severe. For several years, she was in and out of hospitals and treatment centers. And then I would say in her 20s, she got to a good place where she was coping with it and managing it, living a full, productive life. We were all kind of like easy for a while. And then a couple of years ago, right around the time that COVID hit, she quit her job to stay at home with her daughter, to be a stay-at-home mom. And then she started dabbling again

in like diets and workout programs. And at first it was just, oh, I want to lose the baby weight. Um, but it was only a couple, like a matter of a couple of months, maybe before she was falling spiraling again. Um, and she's back now basically where we were when, uh, where she was when we were 14 and extremely severe case. Um, she's been in two treatment programs in the last two years, like inpatient treatment programs.

The first one, she checked herself out early, AMA, because she just didn't want to be there anymore. And then the second time, she was actually kicked out early because she wasn't following the rules of the program. And I guess, you know, on top of the stress and the worry and the concern that I have for her, um, I just struggle a lot with anger, um, towards these choices that she's making. And, um, and I feel like this time is different. Um, I, like, I know that she can get better and

move on, um, because I've seen her do it before, but this time feels different. It feels like she's giving up. And she's told me that when she feels like her family is upset with her or angry with her, that she just shuts down and doesn't want to fight it anymore. So, but the reality is, is I am angry. Yeah. And I'm, it's hard not to watch her. Um, you know, I hear you say a lot that behavior is a language or link. Yeah. Behavior is a language and her behavior says that she just doesn't want to be here anymore, that she doesn't want to live and that

she's slowly killing herself and making us all watch it. And it's maddening yeah yeah uh your anger is is justified it's okay um don't beat yourself up and feel guilty about it yeah don't i feel horrible for being mad because i know it's like i get it it's a serious mental illness and it's not like she can just stop or change. Yeah, and normally you've heard me say I'm much more context-specific when it comes to like, my ADHD won't let me, like, nope, that's not an excuse. You got to figure it out, right? But when it comes to this, you know this, but I hear generally that it's the most or the top one or two most lethal mental health issues in the world. And most people don't know that anorexia kills more people than depression, right?

It's a scary thing. And it's especially scary watching somebody you love who also is the mother of your niece. Or does she have one kid, two kids? Yes, she has two. Oh, jeez. Jeez, jeez, jeez um slowly suffocate themselves yeah man i'm so sorry so don't feel guilty about being upset that's okay that's you'd be a weirdo if you weren't mad okay um there's a difference between anger and rage right and there's a here's the way i would explain it if my son i may have explained

this on the show before my if my son gets up in the middle of the night and he's um sick and he comes into my room and says daddy i don't feel good and i'm like well like what do you how can i help and then he barfs all over my bed I can be mad that I'm covered in barf I can't be mad at my little boy for coming to the one place

he knows he feels safe when he doesn't feel good right I can be frustrated and I can tell him don't ever barf on my bed again

do that somewhere else but you see what I'm saying so you're like being mad at this situation that the your sister who let's be honest are be honest, are y'all identical twins?

No, we're not identical. Okay. Fraternal twins then? Yeah, yeah. Okay. You're watching a part of yourself out there walking around, right? Yeah. That's got to be tough.

Mm-hmm. Make peace with the tough, okay? Here's the back end. Like, what do you do now? What do you want to do now? What is your family talking about doing? What are y'all thinking about doing? Oh, we don't really know. She, um, she is resisting going back into an inpatient program. She doesn't want to do it again. So she's kind of fighting that. But everybody, her entire team, her doctors, her therapists, everyone is telling her, if you don't get this help, if you don't change these behaviors, you will die. Right.

Has she ever been involuntarily committed? No. change these behaviors, you will die. Right. And. Has she ever been involuntarily committed? No. No. Not yet anyway. Okay. But we're looking at that. You're getting close.

As a very real possibility. Okay. That's a huge deal. So people listening, why can't you just make her go? It's a huge deal to take away somebody's civil rights. Somebody else comes in and says, you're crazy. That's been abused throughout history. And so that's usually a last, last, last resort when somebody's barely hanging on. Another option is somebody's got to step in and keep those kids safe.

How are those kids? I don't know. I mean, it's my biggest concern. I think, I mean, they're doing well. They have a great, I mean, her dad, their dad is amazing and he's doing everything he can. Um, you know, the, the thing that makes it also difficult is they live on the other side of the country for me. So it's not like I can just pop over and check in on them or

take them or whatever. My, you know, my parents have gone out there and helped out and taken them at certain times to help and we do what we can. But I also am extremely worried about how this is going to affect them. Make no mistake, it'll affect them profoundly. Yeah. Yeah. No, it'll be a huge deal. And yeah, that's going'll be a huge deal. And

yeah, that's going to be a long-term ripple through the family. Yeah. And they're never going to understand. No,

no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, never, never. I can think of a few harder situations than what you're in right now. And I wish I could tell you, just do these three things, and I can't.

You've got somebody that you love and you care about, and it's very close, closer to you than probably your husband, probably her husband, is closer, like y'all are, right? Y'all shared a wound, right? Y'all are in it.

Yeah. Watching her be so sick that she is she's tired and she's slowly checking out yeah and it's i can think a few things harder than that um what i would tell you is in addition to the anorexia, my guess is you've reached your limit on the lying and the secrets and just talking to you like you're stupid. You know what I mean? If you spent time on people with disordered eating, they tell you things that are so blatantly not true

that it feels like they're insulting you that you're stupid, right? And it just gets exhausting to be around. Like, no, no, no. Yesterday, i had like a five piece of pizza and i 100 you didn't right and they're and just the stories get more outlandish and sometimes it's less watching the person be sick and it's more just quit lying or weird secrets or making right just all of it turns into this it's hard to be around yeah so know this she can be very very sick and still make moves

i hate to call it manipulation because i know it's a part of it's a function of the illness but lobbing grenades like when you're mad at me, it makes me just want to die. That's not fair. Don't own that. Okay? That's nonsense. That's just manipulative. I wouldn't play that game. The moment you say, cool, I'm all in. Things are great.

That's you being disingenuous, right? That's not cool. I would be open and honest about how you feel. And don't let her perfectionism and blame and shame be cast on you And at the same time this is going to be probably the hardest thing you ever have to do I would reach out to her and if you can visit in person And let her know i'm not going to try to fix you I can't sit here and watch you die

But I love you I actually do have a trip planned out to go see her. Okay I can't sit here and watch you die, but I love you. I actually do have a trip planned out to go see her. Okay. And so that's also probably why I was calling, because I don't know what to say when I do see her. Yeah. I know my family wants me to, I guess,

kind of convince her to go back into treatment. Yeah. But I know if I do that or try, I know she's just going to shut down. Absolutely. And I've got people close to me that have struggled with disordered eating and you're exactly right. I'm very direct with people I love who are hurting. I'm direct with everybody who's hurting and about what they need to do to get on the path of healing. And this one is hard because the moment you launch into it, they shut down. They shut off. Right. And that's what I would tell you, sitting down with her, she doesn't need to know that she's sick. She knows. What she really needs is you to hold her hand and say, I love you. It's really hard for me to watch you die, but I love you.

And I'll do what I can to take care of your kids, but I love you. And that's the only way I've found personally, I don't have any literature on this. This is just me sitting with people. The only way to get a crack in the door, to get some light in there, is that person's not trying to fix me.

They're not trying to broke. Cause I've got to, cause people with disorder eating have a game plan for that. They don't have a game plan for unconditional love and skin to skin contact. Right. And you have to make space. An analogy just came to my head. And what I'm going to tell you is going to be very hard to hear

Is that okay? Yeah, sure. Okay Yeah, what i'm gonna tell you is real hard to hear okay My dad, um, it was a hostage negotiator for the SWAT team in houston And what that meant was when somebody was going to jump Off of a building and they would they had gone out on the ledge and they were hanging on barely, they would call my dad. They'd call the team in, but my dad would be one of the guys that would go up and sit with that person and talk to him until they came down. And he told me that he would often

go up there and within just a minute or two, he knew if that person was going to jump or not. And almost always they didn't want to jump, But he said his concern would almost invariably move towards he thought they were going to fall. They're going to get tired and slip. They're going to get exhausted and relax their grip a little bit, and they're going to fall off, right? And he said, whenever you walk into those situations, when people are at this stage of illness,

at this stage of hurt, at this stage of pain, he said you had to make sure you had already asked yourself, am I gonna watch when they jump? Or am I gonna listen when they hit? Or am I gonna cover my ears and duck down? And here's what I'm telling you that, that lesson has been very important for me throughout my life working within these moments

because you have to come up with your line, right? Am I going to watch this thing happen in a slow motion train wreck or am I going to call every psychiatric facility and try to do an involuntary, call the police, I'm going to try to do an involuntary, I'm going to burn every bridge I have to keep my sister alive. And also, or am I going to draw a boundary and say, I'll call you every day, I'll write you every day, but I cannot watch the end of this thing happen like that. That's a boundary you have to draw for yourself, okay? I'm somebody who will exhaust, go to the ends of the earth,

but I'm also a realist too. And that's a hard moment for you but i want you and the people in your community to be prepared for if she does take her life if she does choose i am not getting help that a you can sleep knowing i did what was right for us and B, that's not your fault. And having some space there before you enter into these conversations is really important. And it sounds, this is a call that I don't normally have, right? It sounds like I'm kind of a defeatist. I just have been with too many people in your sister's situation and it can be very bleak. Yeah. It can be very bleak. Yeah.

It can be very bleak. I can also say this, never lost one. Not that I've never had somebody pass away, I've had people turn the corner, but only through relationship and treatment, intense treatment. Have you told her, you told her I don't want you to die? Have you said those words? Yeah, I have.

How does she hear that? She just gets really quiet, and she'll say, I don't want to die either. Or at least that's what she used to say. Yeah. And, you know, she says, she said in the past, I want to be here for my kids. I don't want to leave them. But like I said, it's different now. It definitely feels like she's given up and she's saying things like,

well, my eating disorder just wants me dead. So I feel like that's what's going to happen. So I think that she says that. That's fair. Cool. I think you're right. So I think that she says that. That's fair. Yeah. Cool. I think you're right. I think it does want you dead.

She needs to want to be alive. And you've heard the old story about sobriety. Like you can't get clean for your kids. You can't get clean for your spouse. You got to get clean for you. You have to decide, I want a different life. And most people decide they want a different life. They get to a place where

they don't want to hurt anymore, or they get to a place where somebody's holding their hand and they realize they're not alone. And usually it's a combination of the two. Okay. But I think sitting, if I'm in your situation, I would sit down and say, I'm not here to fix you. I'm here to tell you I love you. Okay. You're smart. You know all the treatment plans. You know all the stuff. I love you. I cannot sit here and just watch you die.

And you can let her know. I'm going to call everybody I know. I'm going to do everything I can legally and otherwise to force you into treatment because I don't want to watch you die. But I also want you to know I'm not going to try to fix you. I can't do that. Right? So it's a both end.

Okay. And have that hard conversation with yourself, with your family, with her husband, with whoever you need to have it and create some, go all in and have some space, right? Maybe the better way to say it is

run into the building that's on fire, but be connected to the oxygen hose outside. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And that means you got to keep yourself well during this whole thing, right? You got to make sure you've got someone you're talking to, or a couple of people you're talking to that you're eating, that you're exercising, you're walking around, that you're sleeping when you can, that you're taking care of yourself so that you can repel into this mess. For those of you watching this, as much as anybody, I'm all about discipline. I'm all about just do it. I don't care what you feel. Just go. I don't feel like working out. Work out anyway. That's me. That's who I am. Disordered eating is something else. It's a

nightmare. And there's some compelling evidence out there that it's, it's one of the few that is truly genetic, right? And it's got a history throughout time. It's not just because social media is, that exacerbates it, but it's been with us for a long time. It is, and it is a nightmare. And so just saying, you just got it, it doesn't work with anorexia. Relationship and true desire to change. True, relentless desire to be alive and to be whole. That's what helps people in those moments. And that can only happen with a team of professionals.

So if you are struggling with anorexia, you're worth a better life. You're worth a better life. You're worth laughing and you're worth peace. And if you love somebody who's struggling with anorexia, call everybody. Call everybody. Get the resources you need.

And when you call everybody, also let that person know, I can't fix you, only you can. But I love you, and I'll be here with you. I'll be here with you. We'll be right back. All right, we're back. Let's go to Candice in Boise. What's up, Candice? Hi, Dr. Deloney. What are you doing? It's such a pleasure to speak to you today. I am such a fan. I'm so grateful. It's a pleasure to speak with you. What's up?

So I've got a family situation that isn't all that new to me, but it's a little bit new. I am a grandmother of six kids and I have a situation where one of my sons went through a pretty hard divorce last year. It was a shocker to him when his wife asked him for a divorce and come to find out she was, had other interests in another man and unfortunately has went down just a horrible path. And it's been really hard on my son watching this go on from the sidelines now. But in this process, he thought that he would try online dating and did go out on some dates. And well, I will call it fortunately, but him and one of his acquaintances. Yes. Oh, man. Yes, him and one of his acquaintances got pregnant. One of his acquaintances. Oh, that's the best grandma way to say that.

One of his acquaintances. I know. One of his old schoolmates. Yeah. Okay, so you're going to be a new grandma. Going to be a new grandma. Okay. And he has wanted to be a dad for a long time.

Okay. So that is my very first thought when he told me was, oh my gosh, you get to be a daddy finally. And I am genuinely happy for him. I was then and I am genuinely happy for him. I was then and I am now. The odd situation is that since there wasn't a relationship before the pregnancy, neither one of them are pursuing a stay relationship, a couple relationship afterwards. And they've agreed to, you know, be co-parents. And she actually is a parent. She has two other children. And we've spent enough time with them that she's an amazing mama. She's a very generous mother when it comes to her children's time

spent with their dads. And I feel nothing, nothing bad about her at all because of that. I mean, she's just, she's amazing. So I guess my question comes in, what kind of boundaries, okay, first of all, I'm having a hard time expressing to my son what my thoughts are about his role to take with her. I mean, I'm encouraging. I've spent time with them, with her kids. I just don't feel like he's connecting. Who's he not connecting with, with her or with this baby? Well, he's not connecting with the baby. He's not connecting. He's excited to be a dad. We've been to ultrasounds and that kind of thing, but he's not, he's not interested in what's going on in the pregnancy really. And that is shocking to me because he's such, he's such a loving, loving man. Yeah. I can, I can can tell you I struggled with that and I was married.

I didn't know what to do. I didn't know how or I didn't know anything about what was happening with pregnancy. And I had to go read up. I just didn't know. And so ultimately, I had to have some hard conversations about,

hey, I'm on the outside here right and i we live together and so i got to see the ins and outs i didn't know what was happening so i'm just trying i'm trying to just put my myself in his shoes for a minute to even i know somebody's pregnant i don't fully understand what all that means you know what i mean and i'm just going home to my apartment every night, and I'm not living with this situation. And so I can imagine there's a disconnect there or a distancing. Do they go have coffee every once in a while or whatever, or are they just going about their lives,

and when the baby's born, they'll figure it out? They're both kind of going on about their lives. Okay. And he has expressed to me what you just expressed. Okay. That he doesn't get it. I mean, the most recent pregnancy in our family that he was around was his sister like 10 years ago. Yeah, and she probably is their third one of these.

And so there's some routine for her. This is just what happens when you get pregnant. And so I can imagine like whenever, if you remember back the first time you get pregnant, it's all new for her. This is just what happens when you get pregnant. And so I can imagine, if you remember back the first time you get pregnant, it's all new for everybody. And everybody's talking about it and thinking about it and reading about it and getting opinions from friends. Now this is her third, right? And she's figuring out how am I going to be a single mom of three kids now and manage these two men in my life now and whatever. And she's probably dating too.

So it's a whole bunch going on for her. So I can imagine there's just a distancing there. It sounds like the bigger picture here, and if he was on the phone, I'd be having a whole different conversation. The bigger picture is you had a picture of what it would be like when he had his first baby and this is not it. And you are trying to navigate this wild world where two

adults decided to hook up one night. They had a baby and they're like, great, we'll be great parents. See you later. And you know enough to know it's not going to work like that over time, but also they're both good people. Let me say it this way. We have a picture in our head of when couples do that, that clearly they're idiots or they have mental health issues or they're evil. And you're dealing with two adults who are kind and rational and lovely people independently. And they are willing to work together in the middle of a situation they didn't plan, but it's here. It doesn't fit the narrative, right? And so we start spinning our wheels.

And then when we start spinning our wheels, we start trying to make other people do things so that we can feel less spinny. Does that make sense? Yeah. Oh, exactly. Exactly. And I can relate to that. Although our other children have been married and divorced before, and I'm really close to those parents, and I think this one might just be a little bit different just because I wanted it for him for so long. I think you're right. I think you wanted it for him for a good reason. It sounds like he's a good guy. It sounds like he's going to be a good dad.

You want it for so long, but you wanted it in a context where everybody's going to be safe, and this one's going to be a lot dad. You want it for so long, but you wanted it in a context where everybody's going to be safe. And this one's going to be, this is going to be a lot of tightrope walking without a net, right? Because there's not a safety of a relationship that when things get messy, which they will, we can fall back on that together. We're just going to have to fall back on our good adult decision-making skills, which I don't know about you, but mine aren't always very great, right? Which is why the relationship is so important. Like my wife is such an important role, part of this process. I would focus on, if I'm you, actually, what can I help you with? Like, how can I help? Here, I'm starting to answering questions you're even asking well I think I think you're right on track and

boundaries have been an issue for me before and especially with this son I'm really struggling to not jump in there and say you know how, how can I help you, for example, get the bedroom set up? How can I help you get ready for this baby? I'm really weary about even attempting that. No, listen, I'm just thinking back. I've just been thinking, this baby's going to weigh like nine pounds. They're going to be 24 inches long.

We don't need a room for it. And like I say, I mean, I might as well be like, hey, you just want to move to Mars? It was like my wife was like, oh, gosh, I'm married to a serial killer. I was like, dude, we can just like put it right here. And like next, what are we doing? Right? But here's the thing. I didn't know.

Let's say my son is married, not married. He finds out he's expected. He's going to be a dad. I would, and this is just the way I handle problems, is I would, I don't say problems. I handle challenges. I would say, cool, from here until the first year, through that baby's first year, you have to have breakfast with me once a week. I'll figure that out. And so I would challenge you to do that same thing with him. Okay. I am want to, we're going to have breakfast. I want to hear what you're thinking,

how this is all going. I want to, if you ever have questions for me, great. And if we just sit there and I'm going to send you some questions for humans cards, we can just, I just want to get to know you better. I don't know you very well. I think I know you, but I want you to ask me questions

about my life, but no kid's going to be like, hey ma, so when the baby was crowning, right, no son is going to ask his mom that. But in some of those questions for humans cards, there's like, what was the scariest moment? And you might be able to say, when that baby was leaving my body, right?

And he'll go, oh, gross. I know it's gross. But right, so they'll give you an invitation to a conversation that would be awkward otherwise to get into. Yeah. But I think that's where you can say, okay, let's paint me a picture of what your home's gonna look like. Paint me a picture of what you think this will look like

because those diapers, I had no idea, no idea that a kid went through eight to 10 diapers a day. Right. I thought one, like how many times

you gotta go to the bathroom, kid? Every second Every second I had no idea And so when they were like, where are the diapers going to go? I'm thinking, I don't know Put one by the Kleenex box I didn't have any idea, right?

I didn't realize you had to have like a back trucks up in the living room To store all the diapers And that's just for like a week And so I think, just saying, hey But here's the, not on all of his deficiencies and where he's not thinking, you got to be thinking about this. Not that. I love you. And this is a scary time, even though it's exciting for you. It's scary time. You got, you're going to have at least one person always in your corner and that's your mom. I'll be here in your corner. And you have to have some weird conversations. Normally you have them with your wife. You don't have that luxury. So you get to have them with your mom, right?

And just kind of jump into that a little bit and be really open with him about saying, if you don't want to talk to me, that's okay. And give him permission to walk away. And if he does, that's his choice as an adult. And it's going to be really sad for you. And you're going to have to deal with your grief, but you can't make your son deal with your grief. Right. Is that fair? Yes. Yes.

It's very fair. And, I mean, I think you hit issue at various times in my life, I think that being able to just focus on what is most important to him will help me not focus on what exactly my perception was as to what his life was going to look like. Have you asked him, hey, what do you need right now? Oh yeah. Yeah. Especially since the divorce because there's been, it's been really, it's been really rough on him. And sometimes he just, and he has said, I just need you to sit with me. Oh, that's so good. Yeah with me. That's so good. That's so

good. And when moms sit with their sons, I still like it when my mom will just sit with me. I'm an old man. I still love it. And she can also quietly ask me, hey,

are you going to keep driving that car? Because I think you're going to die in it that's different than you don't love your kids you're not keeping them safe because you're driving this old junky truck that's a totally different conversation so I think in the moments when you're just being with them and you're just sitting with them and you can say

where's a bassinet going to go or just for me because I'm a boundary free mom could I make a list of all the things that I think I remember that you're going to need? And we can start collecting them now, whether that's like a storage unit for all the diapers you're going to need or a bassinet or a car seat. I'll go to a parenting class with you. I'll teach you how to change a diaper on a doll, right? I had somebody help me do that. And that wasn't awkward at all.

Not awkward at all. Helping Deloney learn how to change a diaper. All those things, right? And at the end of the day, the picture's different. And so it's up to you to adjust your picture because this is his life. And also you love him and you know what's coming. He thinks that he's just going to have a baby inserted into his current life. And you know when that baby comes, everything is different. Everything is different. And you know that. And it's hard to catch your breath because you just see what's coming. He's about to get hit in the mouth And you know that. And it's hard to catch your breath

because you just see what's coming. He's about to get hit in the mouth and you know it. And he's telling you, mom, I'm cool. I'm cool. And you know, you're not cool. So I'm just gonna hug you and I'm gonna sit with you. And when I'm sad, I'm gonna talk to my husband. I'm gonna talk to my counselor.

I'm gonna talk to my friends. And my son's not gonna carry my sadness. That's not his job. He's gonna have enough trying to figure out how to be a co-parent. That's not his job. He's going to have enough trying to figure out how to be a co-parent. You're awesome, Candice. He's lucky to have you. Lucky, lucky, lucky to have you.

And to all the parents out there whose kids have made decisions that you don't understand, that don't make sense, that are dumb, that are idiotic, that are lovely, they're just different than the way you did it.

Remember, their job is not to live your life. Their job isn't to do everything the way you did it. Remember, their job is not to live your life. Their job isn't to do everything the way you wanted it done. Their job is to just be your kid, and your job is to love them. Even if that means holding them accountable, having hard conversations, I get all that. But most of us need love and connectivity, and then accountability, not the other way around. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as

Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself,

and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapist at

any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. All right, we got Una Mas. Let's go to Charles in Albany, New York. What's up, Charles? Hey, I'm excited to be on the world's greatest mental health and occasionally architecture podcast. I'm excited to talk about home remodeling. I'm an expert in home remodeling. I'm actually an expert in starting.

No, I'm an expert in watching a bunch of HGTV and getting a great idea and then buying a bunch of junk and starting a project and then never finishing it. That's one of my gifts. Yeah, so. Can I put an idea out in the world for you? Do what? Can I put an idea out in the world for you? I would love that. I think you should do an entire episode where everybody sings the whole time, but nobody ever refers to it.

And you can be like, can I be real with you? Real, real, real with you. Yes, please. Genius.

Chuck, dude, you've just, yes, yes, and yes, yes. Awesome.

I'm looking forward to seeing it and knowing that. I would delete that episode out of my own feed But it would be worth doing it It would be incredible Right after Hamilton Part 2 comes out We'll do it, that would be incredible That would be so good actually And if we could have one guy that just like metalcore sings it

Another guy that raps it Dude, this is legend, way to go man I'm going to think about this all day Alright, so what's up? Yeah, so my question to you is Dude, this is legend. Way to go, man. I'm going to think about this all day. All right. All right. So what's up? Yeah. So my question to you is, how do I stop comparing myself to my wife? And I can provide more context, or you can just riff off of that. No, please provide more context.

Sure. Does she have better hair than you? Is she prettier than you? Like, what does she have? Like, why are you comparing her? What's the deal? Those things are true. But something that you frequently talk about is how a lot of our happiness is based on the picture we have of our life.

In most ways, my life is actually much better than I expected. I have interesting work that pays me more than I thought I'd ever make. My kids are awesomer than I thought. My wife is cooler than I thought. We live in a back, so far, so good. But I can't help but sort of look to my right and see, I'm middle management of a large company. My wife is a C-suite executive at a company. She helped take public last year. Our kids are closer emotionally to my wife. And if I'm being honest with myself, she's just frankly smarter than I am. And that's not because I'm stupid.

It's because she's legitimately brilliant. Right. And you can sort of read about her in the newspaper or in magazines, sort of come to the same conclusion, this person's brilliant. So it's sort of like, being married to Athena, I'm like, well, I'm doing well for a mortal, but I'd like to be able to step on a cloud and fly up to Mount Olympus you know, it's a little hard to let go of that. What is your jealousy getting you? It gives you something.

What is it giving you? And this isn't a trick question. I'm literally asking you. It solves a problem for you in your life. What is it? Yeah. I mean, so there is a bit more to the story in the sense that i had two pictures actually of my life that were mutually incompatible and i very explicitly explicitly had to choose one path to be with Leah.

And maybe it sort of helps me deal with sort of the loss of the other path that, you know, I enjoyed a lot. Were you going to be an actor or something like that in arts and you had to go make a living? No, it was, I was going to be a, you know, international humanitarian worker in war zone. Yep. And I got to do that, but I sort of really pushed the boundaries of safety to the point where, you know, my wife was saying,

look, you know, when I say tilt that do us part, I need that to be a long time, not a short time. Sure. Now. So hold on, hold on, hold on. At that exact moment, at that moment, your wife presented you with a choice. Yes. And you chose her. you with a choice. Yes. And you chose her.

Right? I did. Okay. Any, any energy spent going back and trying to re-edit that decision

is a choice to be miserable in the present. I had to do it too. I've done it several times. And I find myself when I'm tired, when I'm exhausted, or when I'm feeling less than, I fall back into it. Decisions I made 20 years ago before I got married.

My wife and I broke up, what was gonna be the last time, for about a year, a long time, because here was my rationale. If everything works out in my life the way I want it to, all my dreams come true and all of your dreams come true, we will end up on opposite sides of the planet. And so why would we be together knowing we're walking in

and neither of us are gonna get what we think that would fulfill us? And what I found in that journey is something I didn't know existed. But that was my rationale. And actually, logically, that makes good logical sense. And it was the stupidest thing I've ever – stupidest choice I've ever made. But I tell you all that to tell you, you are really good linguistically. You can, I bet people love being around you at a party and you can be fun and you can talk your way in and out of things pretty well. Yeah.

But you underneath all of that are choosing misery why? what is it getting you? your kids aren't hanging out with your wife because she's brilliant they're hanging out with her more because she's safer you have a core of radioactivity about you what is it?

and don't talk eloquent, just be direct what is it? sure, so some of it may be you know i'm an only child don't care don't care you're a grown man what what what is it getting you well whereas i was doing i'm not always comfortable being around surrounded by people i'm actually somewhat introverted despite being exuberant in certain circumstances. There you go. Yeah. Okay.

So I can't always handle the constantness of just being a parent to three kids who I love. Like they're, in some ways, I love being a father more than I thought, but I like parenting maybe less than I thought, which comes with the territory. Here's the deal. You like the idea of liking things. You don't like them. And you're not honest to yourself about it.

You like the idea of being a dad. You like the idea of being married to a really brilliant, powerful woman. You like the idea of working in a cool company. But you don't actually like the work. What do you actually like, dude? I mean, I think I like adventure. No, no, no. What do you actually like?

You're always saying maybe and I think. You know. What do you actually like? You're always saying maybe and I think. You know, what do you actually like? I love adventure and being in crazy circumstances that I've never experienced before. Yes, and parenting is so boring. It is, yeah. It's so boring.

So boring. And then you try to go on adventure and one of your kids is like, I'm tired. Can I get a snack? And you're just like, oh my God, I get it. Yes. And so here's what's happening. You have a thing inside of you. You love adventure.

In a weird way, you and I are very similar. I don't have any interest in going and being on the front lines in third world countries and all that. That's not my thing. But I did for about, for multiple years, after my kids went to bed, I went and ran around with police officers in the middle of crazy death scenes because I needed that, right? Yeah. I went and found it. But right now you're doing it now, you're just not having this thing and it is dragging everything else down. See what I'm saying? And I don't think your relationship

with your wife is worth that. I don't think your relationship with your kids is worth that. I don't think the reverse is true. But you're on a fast track to resentment, brother. And then right after resentment is comes entitlement. And then that's when you start doing stupid things, man. Is that fair? Yeah. I mean, I,

I hope I have the self-awareness to be able to say my emotional reaction is unfair. I mean, my wife isn't putting any of these expectations on me. It's entirely self-generated. But you're trying to solve all of this in your head and you can't, you have to act. Right. Yes. No, I, my whole family tree, we're all in our heads for generations mine too you gotta act you have to do different things and so when someone says hey how do i stop being jealous of my partner i tell them go be more awesome because the focus isn't on them the focus is you are miserable as a middle manager at a regular-sized corporation surrounded by three kids in a big city.

You see what I'm saying? And when that happens, we make it everybody else. It's these stupid kids are just doing X, Y, Z. It's my spouse is all brilliant. I'm not good enough. That's not the issue. That's us trying to throw fishing lines of blame out there and catch something that will make us feel, oh, it's because of my childhood.

It's because I'm an only kid. No, I don't care about any of that stuff. It probably matters down the way. I just don't care about it. Right. What I care about is you making a couple of choices to be alive that don't involve cheating on your wife and that don't involve leaving your kids. Yeah. I mean, occasionally I've, I've found opportunities that have a lot of

interesting international travel that do make me feel alive, but it can create tension because I'm away a lot and I don't actually want to be a bad partner or parent and it kind of can be an addiction. Absolutely it is. What are you running from? In some ways maybe the drudgery of life like when you're on the

front lines it's very interesting. You don't have to do laundry and you don't have to cook your own food. I don't have a good answer. How old are your kids? Nine, seven, and four. Okay.

Let me, let me, two things. Number one, your kids are watching their dad and they're learning a picture of what dad is supposed to be. And if dad is kind of frumped out and let me put it this way,

they will feel whether you ever say it or not that they're the reason you're not happy because happiness is only on the front lines of a thing your wife will always feel that she

didn't fill in the blank and they don't deserve that definitely not what I would your mission right now brother is to come alive and you're in a season Absolutely not. What I would, your mission right now, brother, is to come alive. And you're in a season.

Hang on and don't do something stupid. You're in a season, man. Nine, seven, and four. Dude, you've got three elementary school kids in one place. Do you have a house or apartment? We have a house. Okay. Yeah, man, you're in a house. Okay. Yeah, man, you're in a season.

So the question is sitting down with your wife and saying, hey, what do you need in this season? Here's what I need. I need some adventure. I need to get my heart rate up. That might be in the bedroom. That might be I'm going to join an MMA team.

It might mean I'm just starting to ride along with the police department. That might mean I'm going to get a weekend job cleaning window. I don't know what gets your heart rate up, but let's say, okay, I can't go to the latest. I can't go to Somalia. I can't go to wherever. Where can I find purpose and mission and become alive in my current

environment in this season? Yeah. See what I'm saying? It's like when I find myself in a hotel room. Okay. I don't have a huge gym. What can I do here right now? That's going to get my heart rate up. It's going to keep me healthy. It's not going to be the greatest workout ever. I'm not going to get shredded bro and CrossFit. None of that's going to happen, but I'm going to be able to sleep tonight. I'm going to feel good, and I'll have moved my body, and I'll keep moving myself down the road towards becoming the guy I want to be. Yeah, no, that all makes sense.

I mean, I think I'm somebody who's naturally a little bit dissatisfied. Yes. And I need to find a way to... Why? What are you dissatisfied from? in some ways everything, I mean the state of the world

the state of myself, I'm not quite as awesome as I'd like to be hey, okay so that was Jolly Charles you know, kind of you know I think you don't like you Okay, so that was Jolly Charles. You know, kind of, you know.

I think you don't like you. I don't think you like the way you look. I don't think you don't like your job. I don't think you, I think there's several, you just don't like you. Why don't you like you? I think I could have done more with the opportunities I've been given. There you go. So you feel like you're a failure.

And you feel ashamed. And you feel like, man, I blew it. And now I'm stuck for the next 25 years. Then after that, I'm like 58. Right? And then you fall into the boat that most men fall into, which is the boat taking us on our lives of quiet desperation. This is just the way this is going to be. And you'll either cheat on your wife and everyone will be like,

what? She was brilliant and beautiful. What is he doing? And you will say, because I finally felt alive. Or you will leave your kids and go to some first world country or third world country and to do a thing and you will the whole time, you're like, I'm doing good work. My kids will...

You're chasing something because you can't look in the mirror and be happy with who you see. So what I would tell you is maybe you did. Maybe you had some cool opportunities and you blew it. I don't think so, but maybe it's true. Here's the reality. There's a period at the end of that sentence.

Now what? Because by continuing to focus on the things you've blown in the past, you screwed up in the past, you're screwing up your present. You're not living full. See what I'm saying? Yeah. That's that brick in the backpack I talk about all the time.

You wake up every morning with Jolly Charles and you open up your backpack and you're like, good morning. And you just start picking up the bricks and putting them in there, putting them in there, putting them in there. I'm carrying this around. I guess, though, are we meant to be satisfied? I mean, in some ways, restlessness has created opportunity for me. And I make a lot of strange choices, but also that leads to some really interesting outcomes. So I certainly understand what you're saying. But also there's a part of me that if I was too self-satisfied, I'd be dissatisfied with that. You have bought into an insane lie that if you are at peace and you have joy in your life, that you can't be ambitious,

that you can't go do good things. And that's madness. In in fact i would say the only way you can do something good and healthy and well sustainably over time is to find equilibrium and then anchor off of there and here's the here's the charles curse you're going to overanalyze everything yes and you're going to overanalyze you're going to overanalyze and you're gonna overanalyze and you're gonna overanalyze and that's gonna keep you that's your buffer from ever having to do

anything and so you're gonna have to choose when those like yeah but isn't nope stop I'm not having that conversation I'm going to exercise okay

yeah but nope I refuse to have that. Yes, a wandering spirit is good. I have one all over the place. And I desperately need people that keep me bound in. I love when I get nervous or I go into my head. I just sit there with my data and I read and I need somebody to say, go to the gym.

Right? Right. You don't have, man, you don't have a, you've bound yourself up into, and tied yourself to a mast of a ship heading in just a circle in the bay. Because it's just the way this is. I'm not meant to be at peace. That's stupid, man.

Yes, you are. I'm not meant to be. You are. And you can find adventure and you can come alive in a million different ways right where you're sitting. To feel like you have to have adventure overseas

and to abandon your family and to leave your wife, that's not about adventure and that's not about fulfillment. That's about running. And you're worth peace. Stay on the line. I'm going to send you on your past, change your future. I want you to read it all the way through.

And I want you to call me back. Yours is kind of an extreme example because your wife's super successful, but your situation is very, very common. And I'm willing to walk alongside you if you'll give me a call back in a couple of months and let's continue to walk down this road together. Hang on the line and Jen will get you hooked up. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point.

In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back. Hey, you always hear me talking about our sponsor, BetterHelp, right? If you listen to this show, BetterHelp Online Therapy. You always get the commercials about online therapy and BetterHelp, my relationship with them. Here's the big deal to

me. Whenever I was a student affairs leader at a university, I'd always send out surveys. I wanted the students to have an opportunity to let me know how I was doing, how my team was doing. I'd send notes out to my staff. I wanted to know, how am I doing? How are we doing? So I reached out on social media and asked you guys to send in some video testimonies of how has your BetterHelp online therapy experience been? I wanted to hear from you. I'm pushing this thing. I've got a great relationship with them. The anecdotal feedback I get is extraordinary, right? It's just so good. So I asked for some video testimonials, some audio testimonials, like, let me know how this is going. I want to hear from you. I want to see you. How's this actually going? And it's important to note,

so I got submissions from all over the country. Jenna reached out to them and they distilled them down, got some good testimonials here. These are absolutely 100% not provided by BetterHelp, period. I'm not paying these people. They're not paying me, right? These are not any sort of, we're not trying to play gotcha. I wanted you folks who are struggling with, I can't find a counselor in my area. I can't reach out to somebody. I don't have time for it. I can't afford it. I want you to hear directly from people who have called BetterHelp Online Therapy and gotten support and the care they needed, whether it was long-term or just acute short-term care. I want you to hear directly from them

in a non-paid, non-pressured atmosphere, okay? So stay here, check this out. And these are three people who have experienced BetterHelp personally. Here's what they have to say. The past two years has been a lot for everyone across the globe. And it's been a lot for me personally.

So I decided to use BetterHelp for therapy because I was entering a new season of my life. I have been on BetterHelp for about two weeks now. I've experienced job loss, moving across the country when I was entering a new season of my life. I have been on BetterHelp for about two weeks now. I've experienced job loss, moving across the country when I was nine months pregnant, becoming a first time parent to my beautiful daughter, learning how to make new friends in the midst of the isolation of the pandemic,

and losing my cousin due to mental illness. New relationship, we were talking about our future together, new promotion at work, a bunch of new stress in my life, both good and bad, that I was working through and trying to make sure that I'm using every tool in the toolbox that I possibly could. It was a lot. And so I decided to take up Dr. John Deloney's recommendation to use BetterHelp using his promo code.

And I was matched with counselors who were able to talk me through my feelings and what had recently happened. My therapist and I, we communicate many different ways. We have a chat session that we can go back and forth. If I have a story that is going to be a little too long for texting, I can record myself and send it to her as an audio file. And we also have live sessions. It was a great experience. My therapist that I was matched with,

she helped me identify how different traumas and experiences in my life were affecting the way I react to things now. She helped me with strategies on how to approach situations at work better, how not to take work home with me, how to approach conversations with my partner better. I've had a really good experience with her. We have communicated on all these different topics, such as parenthood, marriage, even just some conversations regarding boundaries with my family that I grew up with. We talked about my marriage, my mental health,

setting healthier boundaries, how I can make new friends, what I should say yes and no to. It was a great experience. As somebody, as somebody who's dealt with anxiety his entire life, it was by far the best counseling experience I've ever had. I can't recommend it enough, and especially as you enter different seasons of your life, I think it's a great opportunity to make sure

you're using all the tools you possibly can. I highly encourage everyone to check it out. I think it's been very enriching for myself and I think it could be for you all too. I would recommend it to all of my family and friends to give it a try and I'd highly recommend it to you. All right, as we wrap up today's show,

we've done this song before, but this was James' favorite song. And since today is James' official last day as a part of the Dr. John Deloney team, Kelly, official last day as a part of the Dr. John Deloney team. Kelly. Let's do this thing. Song is Everlong by the Great Foo Fighters. And it goes like this.

Hello, I've waited here for you ever long. And tonight I throw myself into and out of the red. Out of her head she's saying, come down and waste away with me. Down with me, slow how you want it to be. I'm over my head. Out of her head, she's saying, and I wonder when I sing along with you, if everything could ever feel this real forever,

if anything could ever be this good again, the only thing I'll ever ask of you, you gotta promise not to stop when I say when. We'll see you soon.