The Dr. John Delony Show - My Son’s Girlfriend Is 2 Years Younger Than Me

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

On today’s episode, we hear about: ·       A mom concerned about her son dating a much older woman ·       A wife wondering how to communicate with her husband in a healthy way ·       A man struggling after donating an organ and not hearing any response Next Steps:📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test  📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future  ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭 John's Free Guided Meditation  🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at Bon Charge. 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth.  🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi.  💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne. 🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights   🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Big news! New dates for money and marriage getaway just dropped for Valentine's Day weekend 2026. Get tickets at ramsysolutions.com events to get away with your spouse in Nashville, Tennessee. My 20 year old son, he has started a relationship with a 37 year old woman and I want to know if I'm irrational for trying to steer him away from her. How old are you? I'm 39.

No way. What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Delaney Show. Coming to you live in reverse from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls on your mental and emotional health and your relationships and whatever you got going on in your life. I'd love to hear from you.

Shoot me an email. For you older folks, that's an electronic letter that you just hit send on. You don't even have to put a stamp on it. For you younger folks, it's a long form DM. You don't slide into an email as much as you just like walk down the hall. But, however you get it to me, johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K, fill out the form, F-O-R-O-M, and hit ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask,

ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, ask, It's already been a tough show and it just started. This is our fifth show recording this week. It's been a tough show. And that's not in addition to all the other media. Yeah. Everybody else, everybody's a little fried around the edges today. Being honest.

Not me. I am full go, full tilt. Let's just get started. I'm 100 percent. Or as the great Doc Holliday said, I'm in my prime. Yes. We actually watched Tombstone last night. That makes you a good family. It's a great movie.

It's one of my top five of all time. Every single time, 100% of the time, those guys over by the river ask, why are you doing this doc? And doc says, oh dude, it's happening again because I'm tired and we get choked up. He said, cause Wyatt's my friend. And he said, I got lots of friends and he goes, I don't. I cry every time because I have friends like that, that on their deathbed would be like, if we're going to dance and we're going to hide a body,

I'll be there. Give me a minute. And oh my gosh, because Wyatt's my friend. What a great line. Tucson, Arizona. Let's talk to Denise. What's up Denise? Hi, Dr. John. What's going on? Thanks for taking my call. Doing good. Thank you. Awesome.

What's going on? How can I help? Dr. John, my question is about parenting an adult child. Okay, good. Cause my nine year old is not having me right now. And so I need to pass on nine year old parenting questions, but I'm happy to lecture you on adult child questions. What's up?

Please do. So my 20-year-old son, he's my oldest. He has started a relationship with a 37-year-old woman. And I want to know if I'm irrational for trying to steer him away from her. How old are you? I'm 39. No way. Have you tried to fight her like at a pool hall?

No, I haven't met her. So no. Good gosh. How'd you find out he's dated a 37 year old? He just came home and volunteered that? No, of course not. No. Um, so my son got a job with my husband with through his work okay and so he met her through work. So she this woman works with your husband? Oh well yeah she's one of my husband's employees. Dang Gina. Usually most of the information I gather

is either through word of mouth, through coworkers from my husband, or actually me through social media. Dude. Your son is dating a woman who's your age. Yeah, exactly. So what do you propose to do? Well, I've tried having conversations with him in regards to what he wants for his future. And so far, all I've

gotten is like one word answers. And I don't see any resolution of this ever stopping anytime soon. He seems adamant that he's going to be dating her. You had your son when you were 19? Yes, correct. Put yourself back in 18 year old you's shoes. Some adult wants to come talk to you about love and sex and connection. How would that go? I think I would have been stubborn.

I'm going to do it my way. How old's your husband? My husband is 41. 41. He's been married for 21 years. So imagine a 39-year-old woman talking to your 21-year-old husband about sex and love and what's the next right move? I haven't thought about that, Dr. John.

What would he have said? I mean, you knew him at 21. What would he have said? What would he have said if he came to you at 21? He's like, hey, we're going to stop having sex. Somebody sat down and told me our future is more important and we might get pregnant at 19 and we need to do X, Y and Z first. I'm gonna go like, what would you, can you, is that, is that like, that's all you started

laughing. That's like comical, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not saying what your 20 year old is doing is right. I mean, clearly he's in over his head. Okay. doing is right. I mean, clearly he's in over his head, okay? But the process of trying to lecture and talk him through X, Y, and Z is really relatively futile. He's a 20-year-old

man. Now, here's where you can tighten the screws up, and here's where I would tighten the screws up. And it's not just about him dating a 37 year old, it's any number of things, is looking at where I am contributing to his life. Meaning, if you wanna be an adult and make adult decisions and you still live in my house, I'm still paying your car insurance, you're still on my cell phone plan, I'm still paying for your college, I'm putting groceries in your fridge,

I'm not gonna contribute to college. I'm putting groceries in your fridge. I'm not gonna contribute to that. I love you. I'll sit with you when this goes well or this goes sideways. But I'm not gonna financially contribute to a life that I see you're fast approaching a brick wall and you're in a car with a foot, with a gas pedal all the way down the floor. So does he still live with you?

Yeah, he does. Um, well he went off to college, so he, well, initially he went off to college for two semesters. He didn't do so well. He was out of state. Okay. And then when it didn't work out well through his bad decisions, we brought him to live with us in Arizona. And since then, he's been working at my husband's work. And um, what's the deal with this woman? Your husband knows her. Yeah. I mean, he doesn't know her, know her, but he knows every, like he sees around the

facility, but she doesn't work for him, she just works with him? Well, my husband's in a leadership role. So he talks to the employees, but he's not working side by side. Has he fired her? No, he has not. He's actually trying to be very careful about not doing anything wrong because everybody at work knows about this. So even make jokes like, oh, there's your future daughter-in-law. For sure.

And by the way, I would be 100 hundred percent making those jokes by the way. And it is kind of funny, but it's not. No, it's not funny at all. But that's kind of one of my, one of my character flaws. I usually know I'm not going to be friends with somebody if they say the words too soon. I'm like, Hey, we're probably gonna be good friends. I mean, we've recently started having him pay us rent because he was living here rent free.

So I mean, is that reasonable? Here's the deal. Anything you want to do is reasonable. Here's what your son needs to know. Like what you want is to have your son do what you want him to do, but you don't want the parental pressure of having to tighten the screws down and make him choose between the comfort his mama's given him and the painful realities of being an adult. And you can't have both.

No. And a lot of, especially young mothers, they're who, or even with adult kids, their kid is their entire identity. And I don't like to tell them, no, I don't like to tell them you have to move out. I don't like to tell them you can't, we can't afford this college. I don't like to tell them you got to drive this old beat up car. Because if he feels bad, then I feel bad because he is my entire identity.

I'm a, I don't want to cast that on you, but I hear that a lot. Well, he's not my only child. I also have a 14 year old son. Yeah, we don't care about him. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. So here's the thing. You can sit down with him and say,

look, I don't approve of this relationship. I think it's dangerous for you. I think you're being preyed upon by somebody twice your age. You can do that. And you can say, so as somebody who is the main funder of your life, I'm cutting off that spigot. You have a choice to make.

You can say, you can not live here. You can pay your own bills. You can do everything you wanna do like that. But I can in good conscience continue to fund your life while you do things that I know are gonna hurt you down the road. And even if this particular relationship doesn't hurt you, the follow-up relationships might be distorted and different

because of this experience as a young 20 year old. You don't even 20, you don't even old enough to drink yet. You can do that. Or you can just say, dude, I'm never gonna have him move out ever. I'm not gonna do that ever, ever, ever. I'm not ever gonna make him pay his own cell phone bill. You have to look yourself in the mirror with that.

And that means you have zero leverage to tell him how to live his life and in that case you're sitting across the table from him in a diner saying I would never have traded you for the world and having a baby at 19 was real real hard it was tough real hard. It was tough. Let me tell you about women my age. Or you want to shock his system, look at him and say, hey honey, sex is awesome.

It's really great. And it can be used for really abusive situations here. You're having sex with somebody as old as your mom. I have said that to him. Be frank with him. And what you're doing is you're not using the power of your purse, you're using the power of connection and persuasion.

I have my own opinions on what I would do, but it doesn't matter what I would do. It's a matter of what you're gonna do and what you can live with. What's your husband say about all this? He doesn't agree with it either. I know, but flip it around. Let's say you had a 20 year old daughter

and his 37 year old coworker was sleeping with her.. Oh god I think it would be totally different. Why? Why? Because that would be his little girl. Okay well that's just his little boy. Yeah. That 20 year old needs the same level of protection and I know he's an adult and blah blah blah blah blah he's over his head man. blah, blah, blah. He's over his head, man. And quote unquote, be real careful. If I have a business and my son or daughter is getting preyed upon by somebody who's twice their age, they're not working for me.

They're just not. Because if I can't trust you to have the dignity and respect not to sleep with my kid half your age, I can't trust you on simple matters, like make sure the sales numbers are right, make sure the engine is cleaned right. I can't trust you in the little stuff. If you would disrespect me in such a spectacular way,

what's this woman's end game? That's where I don't really know. I don't know what, I don't know if she thinks that she's gonna get money or if she wants to have, she had, oh, I didn't mention, she had a pregnancy scare about a month ago. That was great in her household. Turns out she's not.

How in the world would that be a surprise? Yeah, no. You know they're having sex. Yeah, well they weren't using condoms, but now they are apparently. Denise. I'm, yeah. They're not. You know they're not.

They are. My other son found a condom in the backseat of my oldest car. So they are. They're not. But it is. I would tell myself that every night too. So I'm with you on that. I'm with you.

So here's the thing. You can't do anything about it legally. You just can't. No. The only thing you can do is make some hard calls as a parent. Would it be out of, would it be crazy if I called her and spoke with her or had a meet up with her? I don't, I don't think that'll go well.

She's let me say it this way in a weird way, she is, but in your world, she's not the problem. Your son is. Okay. Yeah. And she may have found herself a hot little 20 year old young thing and she's living her life within the bounds of the law. And maybe her dad was 72 and her mom was 52. This is just how she grew up. I don't know. But you can say, dude, it's weird for my son to be sleeping with somebody the same age as me.

You can say, son, you're over your head and I know this is all exciting and fun and all that, but you're on a pretty dangerous path. And you can choose whether to continue to fund his life or not. If my kids find themselves in situations that I'm just watching can only end negatively. I am going to sit down with them and have some direct loving connected conversations. I might even say I'll go to your wedding. You're not going to live here. You're going to be an adult. If you're going to make adult decisions, you're going to make adult, you're going to have

an adult life. I'll go to your wedding now. I'll be kind and cordial if you bring her over. Or maybe that's the move. You know what? Now that I'm talking out loud, that might be the move. Invite her over for dinner. No, I don't want her here.

Invite her over. I don't want her in my house. I don't mind meeting up with her somewhere in public. Oh, she's been in your house today. She's been in your house. Invite her over. I don't want her in my house. I don't mind meeting up with her somewhere in public. She's been in your house today. She's been in your house. Invite her over. I don't want her in my house.

Yeah, make dinner. Make a delicious dinner. Be like, so, you're dating my 20 year old son. Tell me about yourself. That's gonna go really well in the conversation. Okay, but how is it going well now? It's not. Okay, you want to keep doing the same things

but have different outcomes. I'm just throwing things up against the wall. Yeah, I appreciate it. And if you're doing things differently with a daughter than you were with a son, I think you'll need to challenge yourself. All right, yeah. You bring up a good point.

I didn't think of that way. And you have to hold this open-handedly. There's nothing you can do about it. And that's heartbreaking for parenting adult children. I hear that over and over and over. I thought parenting was hard when they were four. It's impossible when they're older because they're walking right into the same mistakes and challenges and hard experiences that I went through and I can't do anything

about it. That's how I feel. It is. Your feelings are right and it's worth spending a moment in time grieving. Not being sad that your little boy is now a very young man. And that's when the relationship in many ways shifts from I'm gonna tell you what to do to, Hey, will you go have coffee with me? I need to tell you some stories about my life that you don't really know. And this is what I'm seeing. I love you.

I can't, I can't control what you do after this meal. But I just want you to know I love you. And I also want you to know that if things go sideways, you can always come home. You can always come home. Your move, Denise. I would love it if you sent us a picture of an amazing home cooked meal

with this wide-eyed 37 year old girlfriend of your son sitting at the kitchen table wondering what just happened. That would be incredible, Denise. You'd be a legend. We come back, we talk to a woman who is nervous to talk about a sensitive topic with her husband because he might get mad. We'll be right back. There's no finish line when it comes to your mental and emotional and spiritual health. You don't wake up one day and just say, all right, I've arrived. Your mental and emotional and your spiritual health,

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Bondcharge.com slash deloney, use coupon code delI to save 15%. I just got to Pittsburgh and talked to dear Marie. What's up, Marie? Hi. What up? Dr. Joanne. Just sitting here in the rainy Western Pennsylvania.

Kind of nervous today. Oh, that's very... Are you nervous about talking to me or nervous about the rain? Talking to you. Oh, okay. Because I... So... Oh, very cool. I'm glad you called. Are you nervous about talking to me or nervous about the rain? Talking to you. Oh, okay. Because I... So...

Very cool. I'm glad you called. What's up? Okay. So this is my initial question. So how can I have a conversation with my husband about the nature of our relationship without it turning into an argument every single time? So...

I don't know. Why are you arguing with him well he does we Honestly, I we argue about everything We don't really communicate that well Try going to therapy like I was I'm in therapy I've been in for about three years I try to get him to go and he doesn't like say anything and I don't know how to get him to Open up and communicate with me and I'm like I'm at a point where I'm one foot in and one foot out the door

Yeah, of course, but why would he communicate with you if you'll fight every time? I? Don't know. I mean it's like so You don't even know what I'm saying like I Don't know like if you'll fight over everything and you disagree over everything. Why in the world would he talk? I Don't yeah, I mean I I get it. Let me ask you this What is what does disagreeing and fighting get you not y'all but you? Nowhere.

But it gives you something because you keep doing it over and over and over and over again. What does it bring you? I don't know. I mean, feeling of like, I just wish you would, I don't know. I just wish you would listen and... But he never does ever ever ever ever. Not when y'all are arguing. So why do you keep doing it? What is it bringing you? Well, and I think that's where I realized

that it's not bringing me anything. So I'm shutting down from it. And I'm just not talking to him like at all. Okay, so- And then he takes that as everything's hunky dory fine. He doesn't. I don't think that's true. Cause I think he knows. I think he takes that as

He's gonna accept the piece of cord. It's on the table. Even though it's a bad deal for everybody Yeah My guess is this a lot of people argue all the time Thinking they're trying to solve a problem. That's not what they're trying to do. What they're trying to do is get an emotional release trying to do is get an emotional release. And over time, when two people are trying to get an emotional release with and from each other, what ends up happening is it becomes a parasitic relationship. I'm using you to vomit on so that I can get an exhale.

And I hate the way this feels. And so I'm gonna blame you that we didn't get anywhere from this vomiting I just did and vice versa Yeah, and eventually one person quits Yeah, I think we both have quit okay point all right so the question you have to ask is this because you don't Argue with your boss every time you go in you don't argue with your mom or your dad every second You see them right or your grandmother, right? No, okay, so that tells me you have the You don't argue with your mom or your dad every second you see them, right? Or your grandmother, right? No. Okay, so that tells me you have the mental and emotional

and psychological and physical capabilities of not arguing. Right, true. And so you have to sit down and say, I'm gonna be an adult and I'm gonna choose to not fight. And I'm gonna choose that we need to solve some major problems. You and me and our quote unquote communication stuff, that's not the issue here. What's at stake here is these big rocks.

And so I'm going to commit to when I feel triggered, when I feel set off, I'm going to exhale. I may have to take a walk around the living room, but I'm going to come back to the table. And y'all just establish ground rules. And if y'all, if one of you says, I'm not doing that, then that's what you need to know. Yeah. I just, he like, he just like changes the topic though. Like every time we're arguing about something,

like I'll try to tell him, you know, I've got one foot out the door I'm like I can't keep going around in these circles and then he'll bring up like an argument we had about something stupid like I don't even know just like random stuff like stupid things like why didn't I wash his laundry or, you know, like- Hold on, hold on. How in the world do you have the right to judge what is stupid and what's not stupid? If he's putting it on the table, this is a pain point for me.

And you're like, that's stupid. I got one foot out the door. I'd quit talking to you too. Yeah. If you sat down and said, hey, you're not happy in this house. I'm not happy in this house and I want to be happy with you in this house. I'm willing to sit here for 45 minutes and just let you go.

What's in your heart, man? And he's probably going to start with tic tac stuff. Well, you said you were going to do the laundry and you didn't do last week. And the dog was barking and you always take care of the dog and you didn't go get it. You'll start there. And if you can just swallow your ego for a second, for five, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and then it will get to, I'm exhausted.

We don't have any money. I feel like I'm on a treadmill. I feel like you spend money like crazy. I feel like I don't like how I feel. clothes don't feel like you'll get to the real stuff Yeah, and then vice versa But if every time you sit down to say I've got a grenade I want to throw and Then he throws one back and you're like yours is stupid. Well, of course, I'm not gonna talk And by the way, if your grenade is your grenade is bigger your grenades a threat

I'm already halfway out the door. I'm leaving you Yeah, so here's my big question are you done with this marriage Sometimes I think I am not Not what I asked you. Are you done with this marriage? I don't know. If you're not done with this marriage, you have to have the vulnerability and the astounding bravery and courage to sit down and say, I will go all in if you will. I think that's what I'm afraid of doing. Okay.

As opening up to him, because I don't know how he's going to receive that. So what you're trying to do is, is threaten him into coming to rescue you. And what you're doing is you're making it very hard to come rescue you. And in the process, you're not just going to step off the edge, you're doing is you're making it very hard to come rescue you. And in the process, you're not just going to step off the edge, you're going to fall. You get what I'm saying?

Like you're dangling over the edge and you're like, you better come get me, you better come get me, you better come get me. And you're going to slip. Yeah. So, so let me ask you, what is so scary? Are you scared of physical violence? No. Okay.

Not at all. Are you scared of emotional berating? You suck. I'm gonna swearing at you, screaming at you, pounding the table at you. No. Okay. It sounds like there's one underlying fear here and I want you to just say, no you're wrong or crap that's it. You're afraid if you go all in he may say I'm out. I don't even know if that's it because in our, in his and I's relationship, I've spent

all of our almost 20 years together, basically taking care of him and I've gotten pushed to the wayside and now I don't know how to say what I need and hope that he will come back at me. What? Okay, I'm here for you. Because that's what I'm afraid he's not going to. And what about if I talked to him, would he say, dude, for the last 20 years, I've been told what we're going to eat, what I'm going to wear, where we're going to live, where the kids are going to go to school?

No. No? Not really? No. No? Not really, no. He's... Have you been his mother for the last 20 years? Pretty much. Okay. That's where you start. That's where you start, Marie. Yeah, I felt like his mom. That's where you gotta start. I've been your mom for the last 20 years and I've got to be done with that. I want to be your wife. Yeah. Yeah. I've kind of felt like, I mean, his mom that he lost years ago and I like I have a fourth child in my house in a way.

So there's a both end to that conversation. He has acted like a fourth child and you have treated him like one. Yeah. Both of you have participated in this dance. Yep. And so part of this is you're grieving 20 years where instead of having a lover you've had a fourth kid. Basically. It's partially on you and that's partially on him. Fair? Yep. Okay. So don't vomit your grief on him as much as take your grief and set it on the table. I've been your mother for 20 years and I'm done with that.

Yeah. I want to be your wife. Or I want to be your girlfriend again because we have to rebuild this marriage and I want to find out if we, if you and I still want to be married to each other. And I think that's where I'm at. I do, I do want to, you know, I do want to try to figure out, hey, is this worth rebuilding or are we just giving up? I don't want to completely give up on it yet. Can I be honest with you?

I don't hear that you do. And I think that may scare you to death. It does. Definitely does. Okay. Definitely does. So the harshest reality of where you are is the only way it works is if you close the door and take one foot out of the door and put both feet back in that house. Okay.

And he may walk right out the back door. Tactically, like, here's how this goes A, B, C, and D. Number one, I want you to spend a few minutes or a few hours alone writing down what it is you want. I want X, Y, or Z. I want A, B, and C. That's number one. Number two, set up a time and let them know we're having a grown-up conversation. No yelling, no fighting, no, we're not here to disagree on minute things.

We got some big stuff we got to talk about. And I love you and I want us to agree that we're going to have this hard conversation. Oh, what's that about? Are you serious? You're going to be doing that? No, no, no, we're not doing that. I'm not doing that This one's for real and you know that you have a voice when you can be whiny and naggy and you have a voice that when

You can be angry and then you also have a voice when he knows you're being serious, right? Yep. Okay that's the one I'm talking about and I want y'all if you can leave the house great if not find a place where there's no screens or anything We all can look directly at each other and no kids. And then here's the fourth big one. Every one of these things that you bring up at the very beginning have to start with I statements, not you statements.

For the last 20 years, I have acted in the role as your mom and I've wanted you to have this kind of life. I wanted you to be at peace. I've wanted you to feel good. And I have acted like your mom. And I've wanted you to have this kind of life. I wanted you to be at peace. I've wanted you to feel good. And I have acted like your mother. Yeah. And I am tired and I am no longer going to do that. And I still love you to the moon and back.

And I want to us to start dating again and find a spark that we had. Or find a new spark yeah I feel like I want someone to take care of me instead of me taking care of someone say those exact words I want to be your wife and I want you to spoil me and I want you to take care of me I want you to take care of me. And be honest, I don't know how to do that. Because I think you like the idea of being taken care of. And I think you would fight somebody trying

to take care of you, especially at the beginning. Yeah. Is that fair? Okay, so be honest. I want you to take care of me and I don't know how to let you do that. And you can laugh and say, I don't even know if you know how to do that

Yeah, and the big question is are we willing to learn how to do that together And then you'll get to if he's and then let's pretend he's all in yes, thank God this is amazing. I love it I'm all in Before you leave you leave with a small action plan. From this point forward, no more yelling. From this point forward, if I say the words, I have a vulnerable thing to say, all the screens go down, face down, and the promise is no rebuttals. I'm just going to say it out loud. I'm not doing laundry anymore or you're gonna be responsible for your laundry for 30 days or 60 days or 90 days We're gonna try it out

Whatever those whatever those little knickknackies are y'all co-create a 30 or 60 day plan with what comes next And listen he may say I am all in and I'll scare you to death and he may say I'm out And that'll break your heart Yeah, I don't know he'll be out I have a hard time telling him what's on my mind and what I'm thinking. If you go in and sit down and say, I've not done a good job of telling you what I'm feeling over the years, and I've blamed you for it, I'm sorry. You see, man, you're talking about a revolutionary change. And let's say this, if he walks out the back door, it will be heartbreaking, all that kind

of stuff, but you will be able to exhale knowing I could, I tried to control what I could control and I left everything on the table in the spirit of reconnecting and re-imagining our marriage. And sometime that's the best we can do. Frustratingly, that's the only way it works if you want to rebuild something and both of you go all in. Thanks for the call. We come back, we talk to a man who is wrestling with the aftermath of donating an organ. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. More and more people are becoming aware of the

need to take care of themselves, whether it's finally taking action with their physical health, finally getting some friends to do life with, or finally getting the courage to seek professional mental health support. But when it comes to seeing a therapist, over a quarter of the people surveyed say they avoid getting therapy due to a fear of judgment. And I understand this. I have felt that same judgment before when I finally tried to get up the courage to get help. When people won't get help, it doesn't just affect them.

It impacts their families, it impacts workplaces, it impacts their entire communities. The world is better when people are healthy and whole. And if I can be selfish on your behalf for a minute, the world is better when you are healthy and whole. So if you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy

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your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash deloni. Out to Seattle. Let's talk to team Edward. What's up, Edward? Hey, good afternoon, Dr. John. Good afternoon to you, brother. What's up, man? So I am trying. It's been one year since I did a benevolent donation of my left kidney. No way, dude. What was that like? It was a pretty amazing process. It's look back of all the decisions I've made in life. It was an amazing decision. And it's just a decision I was so very much at peace with.

A lot of thought and consideration. The process to donate your kidney takes so much time from the medical, the psychological and everything. So was this for a family member or a total stranger? No, it was a total stranger. So benevolent donation and that's, that's what's prompting my call today is trying to get closure on that because we've now hit the one year mark and I've never heard from

the recipient, which has kind of created to me, it feels like that book and you get to the last chapter and you find the pages are missing. So I'm having a tough time kind of reconciling that I've never heard from that person. Do you know who it is? I don't. So the way the process works is when you go through the process, it took almost a year to kind of go through and be selected as a benevolent donor.

I went in March of last year. The recipient was just an operating room away, so they took my left kidney from me and then went over to my recipient there. And I anticipated that sometime within the first year, probably one of three outcomes would happen. One is, and all of these communication is handled through the hospital,

that they would reach out and there'd be kind of some connection. You get to know the person, be able to kind of see the benefit of the vanishing and really make that connection. Or I figured there would just be kind of an anonymous note, which I get if somebody received a kidney, they may just want to keep that degree of separation, but

at least just something that helps for me bring closure. What was the benefit of receiving it? You know, oftentimes I'll hear, I have colleagues who've donated kidneys and the dialysis that their spouse didn't have to go to, for example, and just how a living kidney donation really benefited their lives. The outcome that I wasn't expecting, although they prepare you for, is that you just hear nothing. And that's the piece I'm struggling with. Is I just anticipated some closure, maybe a card that just sits in a drawer that just sort of memorializes this, but it's never happened. And I'm trying to figure out

how going forward I live with it. My story just feels just a little bit incomplete. There you go. So I appreciate you being honest, man. This is something that I think would haunt me too, but I would not have the courage to say it out loud. I would just eat it, right? So good on you for saying it out loud. I'm fascinated to know this question. And this is a little bit perverse.

This is just me wanting to know, but it may have a relevance later on. What story have you made up about the recipient as to why they haven't contacted you? That I don't know. And honestly, that's the reason I'm reaching out to you because I'm hoping someone can put me in the place of what might be going through the recipients. I know, but you've concocted some story, right? in the place of what might be going through the recipients. I know, but you've concocted some story, right? Yeah, but the story of concocted, I hope is not accurate. I hope it's not. Let it rip, let it rip.

Cause there's some value in speaking it out. Yeah, I don't want to believe that they just took it for granted. That they just treated it like, you know, we go to the blood bank and we give blood and we get our free cookies and that's just more transactional. I would hope that they just don't like, you know, we go to the blood bank and we give blood and we get our free cookies and that's just more transactional. I would hope that they just don't take it for granted.

And I have heard through kind of post follow-up, there's obviously kind of rigid follow-up once you give a donation. I would hope that they're not taking it for granted, but that is my concern that they just feel as if they've kind of received this gift and that they've given no thought to what it's like to be on the other side of that ledger

of being the person who donated. And that's my concern is, gosh, did I give my kidney to someone who is just indifferent to the gift? And I wanna be clear, I'm not looking for the keys to the city credit or anything. An anonymous note would more than satisfy it, but it just feels like I have seven eighths of a story

and that's gonna be the story that sticks with me. So when people ask, what was it like to donate? I've had a chance to speak of it about what it's like to be a living benevolent donor, but I just feel like that story is just not totally complete and that may be something I have to hang on with for the rest of my life. Well, I think the challenge for you is you are expecting

external validation for an internal narrative. And I think this is instructive for the way most of us live our lives. We do the dishes so our spouse will pat us on the back. We get straight A's so our dad will give us that one little wink, maybe. And what I found is, and in my own life and in the lives of countless other people I've sat with is the people who win are the ones that complete that narrative internally. Because what you've done is you've created a story. are the ones that complete that narrative internally.

Because what you've done is you've created a story. Essentially, there was some sort of altruistic 401k at play here. I want to do this and the ROI on this investment will at least be a card I can put in the drawer. And I'd love for you. Yes, dude, I want that for you. I would expect that. Like if I mow my neighbor's yard, at least wanted to say, thank you. At least wave, put a little smiley face card under like a little note under my, under my windshield wiper. You know what I'm saying? But I've got to do on the front end.

It's going to be up to me to say this act of service is in and of itself a complete circle. Yes. And I think to your point, mowing the lawn or something, and again, it's one of the reasons to do benevolent and I, the hospital has a program where you can initiate contact afterwards. So if I wanted to initiate, I could. Why haven't you? I don't feel right about that.

Why? I guess there's a feeling that I'm not looking for credit. But you are. I'm looking, I think, for closure. I know, that's just a sophisticated matter of semantics. You want someone to give you a hug and high five you and you're not wrong for that. And you want somebody to say, hey, you gave me life.

You gave me an organ from your body. That's not wrong for you to want that. Why do you think, why are you avoidant of that sort of recognition? Well, I wouldn't say it's the recognition per se. What I wanna see is what good came from the donation. Let me tell you, here's the good that came from that donation. Yeah.

Edward got to look in the mirror and say, I'm going to put myself at risk for the greater good. Period. The story is over. Because if this person is in jail, I still think you did an amazing thing. If this person has passed away, they got this kidney, they lived another four months, they went to cardiac arrest,

they never came out of the hospital. What you did was an amazing thing. If you're looking, I mean, this is, we can, I mean, you've probably heard the old trolleyology if you haven't, it's a fun, you can go down a Google rabbit hole with trolleyology at a philosophy classes, but are we doing stuff because there's good in and of itself? Are we doing things only if, is the value of the thing we did only in the end result? Yeah. And I would say it's the end result, even if for me it's anonymized. So my day-to-day work, I'm a police officer.

And so I share that because as cops, we tend to be very evidence-based, right? We look at whatever the circumstance, we distill it down to those facts that we can articulate and very outcome-based, right? We look at whatever the circumstance, we sort of distill it down to those facts that we can articulate and very outcome-based. And so I think it's for me not being able to see the kind of the manifestation of this kidney that I donated and how it improved the circumstance.

Again, even if it's anonymized, it just feels incomplete. And to your point, which is so valuable, is how do I work through that knowing that this may be as complete a story as I'll get? How do you work through the fact that I may never read the last pages of the book of my kidney donation? The problem is as an author, you've given somebody else the pen that they didn't ask for. You're still waiting for somebody to tell you, you're a good man, that you did good.

And I'm telling you on behalf of my little kids, you wake up every day and you may not come home. And I know that, because my dad has a special little box in the back of his closet, because he may not come home every single day from work. You're a good man. You did an extraordinary thing and it's ridiculous that you haven't got a note or a call or a

letter. I'm with you. It's absurd. But I would rather you be frustrated and just like, then you having handed somebody a pen and hoping they'll close like write the final chapter of your story. You're the only author of your story, man. And I can't think of a more powerful speaker at a benevolent donor conference to say, I had to look in the mirror, y'all.

So if y'all are doing this for, because you think there's going to be a great Instagram reel and a fun story that's going to end up on CBS News when it's over, my person has never called me. And I wouldn't change a thing. Yeah. And that's absolutely true. And my ideal outcome would be just sort of seeing the manifestation of the gift, not even credit. That's not at all what I'm looking for.

Just looking to, as I look at colleagues who have not done the benevolent donation, and they can speak to, hey, here's how this changed our family, allowed us to travel, us to do these things. And knowing that their gift had some purpose. And I think that's my concern is the potential compromise of my future health, obviously from two kidneys to one. I look at these things and say, gosh, was it at the end of the day, a decision I would absolutely remake absolutely a piece with it, but not knowing, I guess, how it changed or what benefit it

brought someone is the piece I'm struggling with. And I appreciate that this may be. You'll never get it. You'll never get it. I'll never get it. And so it's how do I, how do I work to reconcile that? And maybe it's just that reality of it just, just one of those things that won't get reconciled. It's the account that won't balance.

I want you by yourself go into your office at your house. I don't want you to write this person an imaginary letter. I can write them a real letter, but you're not going to send it. And I want in your mind, I want you to decide whether it's a 19 year old male a 48 year old grandmother a 79 year like you get to pick the picture and write him or her a letter And say I here's what I hope for your life And then You put that letter in your drawer you could put that letter in the garbage you can shred it you can put that letter in your drawer, you can put that letter in the garbage, you

can shred it, you can put it in a fire pit. But I want you to stop carrying around this open loop. It's driving you into the ground. You did an amazing thing. This person may be deceased. This person may have some intellectual challenges. This person may be deployed. this person may have some intellectual challenges, this person may be deployed, we don't know. And so any story we make up about this person is a burden to us, not them.

And you are, oh, you are right and good and great to be frustrated and angry and sad. Those feelings don't make you a good person, they make, I mean, a bad person, they make you human. Yeah, and I think I feel a measure of guilt for sort of having those feelings because we do the benevolent donation and I feel as if you do this and I would absolutely do it again

And so there is that measure of guilt? Wanting that just just a sentence of let me let you free from my guilt Yeah, and I think that that's the thing is feeling badly that they even be free for they even want this this closure I want it for you, and I don't feel guilty at all. People should say thank you. One of my, it makes my wife die laughing. One of like I'm the, I'm over emotional and just kind of goofbally but I'm, when things get bananas, I get really still. One of the things that makes me comically enraged is when I'm driving in an urban area and somebody walks across the crosswalk and they don't wave. I get so irrationally mad when someone won't just nod and wave and say

thank you for not running me over. I don't know why that makes me so mad. It just feels like the most the lowest level of common human decency is to look somebody in the eye and wave to them. So dude when it comes you gave somebody an organ I am in I am indignant on your behalf. The challenge is what am I going to do next that what is that indignation bringing me nothing but misery. What does not processing my feelings bringing me? Nothing but a low level hum of this thymia of depression. Just I'm slowly just I'm becoming trapped in my own. Why not? Where is it? Who is it? What is it? Why didn't they do it? I bet it's because they don't even care. What if they're even doing drugs? What if they're so... And then I'm just making up stories that impact me, not them.

I did a good thing. You did a good thing. And you did the right thing. And if we're only doing the right things in the world because we want some ROI on them, we're gonna have an exhausted life. If we only do good things in the world and we only judge the value of the things of our actions by not that we'd made the best call with the information we had, we did it because it was just the right thing, but what was the end result? Man, that's an exhausting life. And dude, that's a philosophical debate as old as time.

Yeah, you did a good thing, brother. You did a good thing. Write that letter tonight to that imaginary person. And if you really wanna know, reach out. Just say, I wanna check in, how are you? But at this point, you're choosing not to have contact. That's a choice you're making. And you're choosing not to close have contact. That's a choice you're making. And you're choosing not to close the loop.

That's a choice you're making. The move from here is yours. I'm grateful that men like you are in my community. Appreciate you, brother. All right. Let's talk about Cozy Earth. Y'all have heard me say I love sleeping in a cold, cold room. And my wife would love to sleep

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That's 40% off. Visit Cozyearth.com slash Deloney and use code Deloney right now. That's C-O-Z-Y, Cozyearth.com slash Deloney. All right, Kelly, that first call, dude, you have a 19 year old son. Now I know it's a little bit different. It'd be like him dating a 78 year old, but imagine your son is dating an old, old lady that's your age. I can't wrap my head around it. No, I'm not that old, first of all. I am older than this woman, but-

A lot. Anyway, but the thought even of, regardless that she's close to my age or not, but if my 19 year old bringing home a 37 year old woman, I spent most of the call just like trying to crawl back in my own skin because I can't. Okay. My son's 15. So there's a legality thing there, but I'm trying to imagine him. What is that? That's 33?

Yeah, because four years difference. Yeah, I can't even- I can't r- No. No. Wow. I would be in jail. Let's just say that.

I would probably be in jail. Again. Again. You've been in jail a few times before and you're like, I'm going back to jail. Teardrop tattoo. You do have teardrops tattoo. I do. I do.

I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. I would probably be in jail. Again, again. You've been in jail a few times before and you're like, I'm going back to jail. Teardrop tattoo. I would. Yeah. I can't even fathom how I would handle that.

But again. And here's like, just for a second for everybody listening, because here's the stuff going through my head. This is dicey. Because if you don't want them two together, I can get the narrative, I need to keep him as close as possible to me. And if I say, hey, you can't live here

and be in this relationship, he's gonna go to her house. I might facilitate them their closeness, right? And so I get being nervous all around I don't know the whole thing's just a messy situation Oh, I don't like it My heart goes out to her because I can't Even fathom how I would deal with that Not well, probably I was about to say like it wouldn't be it wouldn't be super good. No

No, not at all. You would just see Kelly's supernova from space just... All right, should we do it and by the problem? We should. All right, this is from Molly and she writes, we are very involved at our church and I lead one of the ministries. So, we regularly use our church's childcare for events throughout the week. Our 15 month old son recently moved from the nursery to the toddler room, which has a TV screen that is used to play music videos and Bible stories for up to two and a half

hours at a time. My husband and I have decided to adopt a screen-free approach in our home given his young age, which is in line with the American Academy of Pediatric Guidelines. I approached the church staff with the concerns regarding the use of TV for such young children and I was told that the volunteers use it to help pacify the children who are experiencing separation anxiety and to keep them under control. I offered several alternatives and compromises to reduce screen use, all of which were dismissed. And I was encouraged to let it go because screens are a normal part of our society. Am I the problem for being upset?

This is gonna be a controversial one, I think she's the problem Because she's going into someone else's house and demanding they live. It's like it's like if you're gluten-free Or you have a like a well peanut allergy you'll die so I get that one but if you're if you're a vegetarian and you go to somebody's barbecue and You throw a fit and start lecturing them on how why what they're eating is wrong and they shouldn't be you're the problem Same as if I show up at my friend's house I've got some friends that are just staunch vegetarians and I throw a fit like where's the meat like this? That's me I'm a jerk there. I'm the problem.

I don't think this woman's a jerk. I think she's A, right. I think there should be more adult contact with kids in these settings and not just one person per 30 kids dropped in front of screens. Totally agree with her. I agree with the American Pediatric Association and I don't think I've ever said that sentence

on this particular thing. I'm all in and what she's wanting is to go in and dictate how these other people with different values are going to do life and she's allowed to have her feelings hurt. She's allowed to be frustrated. She's allowed to say, hey, we may have to find a new church. We may have to find new childcare. Yeah, that stinks. That stinks. But yeah, she, I don't know. I mean, yeah, the onus of what comes next is on her. And she's allowed to have her feelings hurt and she's got to go find a different childcare if that's a priority for her. That sound right?

Exactly. She can make the choice whether or not her child goes to that childcare and if she doesn't like the way they do it, she can go. Yeah. Ta-da. It's up to her. Yeah. Near, near. Near, near. Look at you coming coming around look at you coming around. Yeah, I

Wish kids well, I don't say that I say that too much Nope, I'll say it again. I saw a stat this morning 40% for zero 40% of two-year-olds have an iPad 40% of two year olds have an iPad. Why is the world falling apart? Oh no. Oh jeez. Love you guys. Bye.

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