The Dr. John Delony Show - My Stepdad Had an Inappropriate Photo of Me on His Phone

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

On today’s episode, we hear about: ·       A woman feeling violated by a recent discovery ·       A father who is angry about time lost with his kids since the divorce ·     �� A mother struggling to explain to her son why he can’t go to sleepovers Next Steps:  📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test  📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future  ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭 John's Free Guided Meditation  🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch    Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at Bon Charge. 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth.  🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi.  💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne.  🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights   🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I found a picture of myself on my stepdad's phone. He had put a picture that I had posted on Facebook through an app that made me look completely naked. I'm just absolutely gutted. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. God.

Yo, yo, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show, taking your calls from real people all over planet Earth about whatever's going on in your lives, your mental and emotional health, your relationships, whatever you got going on. I'd love to have you on the show. Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndoloney.com slash ask, A-S-K.

All right, Raleigh, North Carolina. Let's talk to Renee. What's up, Renee? Hi, nothing much. How are you? I am running a scam called being a YouTuber. What are you doing? Yeah, nothing much. How are you? I am running a scam called being a YouTuber. What are you doing? Yeah, nothing much.

Just enjoying the sunshine out here in Raleigh. Amazing. It's a beautiful part of the world, man. That's fantastic. So what's up? Um, yeah, I, um, I had an unfortunate situation where I found a picture of myself on my stepdad's phone and he had put a picture that I had posted on Facebook through an app that made me and the friend that was in the picture as well look like we were

completely naked. It's my world kind of shattered in that because I don't have a great relationship with my dad. And my stepdad has been in my life for, you know, 10 plus years and he's really been an answer to prayer for me in so many ways. So I'm just absolutely gutted and shattered. And I, I don't know. I don't know what a relationship with him would look like moving forward. I don't know if I want

that. I don't know. I just I feel very heartbroken, very betrayed, very trapped and very very stuck. So I'd love any advice that you have. So I'd love any advice that you have. How old are you? I'm 30. How old was this picture that you posted? It was about a year old, so I was very much an adult. Okay, so this wasn't like this wasn't kids like... No.

adult. Okay, so this wasn't like this wasn't kids like no. We're cheese. Um, I, uh, gosh, how'd you find this? So, um, I, he was picking me up from the airport. Um, I'm originally from California and my flight got in very, very late. It was delayed and so he picked me up from the airport and I heard a notification go off on his phone and I asked him, I'm like, why, who's messaging you at like one in the morning? What's going on? And so he told me he's got friends that he used to work with that are contracting over

in the Middle East and they send him motorcycle videos. Okay, no big deal. So we sat down for breakfast, dinner, whatever meal that was at one in the morning. And, um, I took his phone and his password is my birthday. And so I looked at the message and it was in fact just a motorcycle video, but he had another message that was kind of suspicious and I asked him about it and he was like, he just had some excuse for, oh yeah, that's a girl that I knew from high school or whatever. And then I, I don't know why I did this, but I looked at his text messages

and one of the first messages that he had was a picture that he had sent himself. And so I opened that and that's where I found the picture. I did have a chance to talk to him about it the next day because right then I was absolutely shocked. I didn't say anything about it. He saw you open the picture? No. He saw me open the messages, but he didn't see me open the text message that read the picture. I just exited out of everything, put the phone down, flip it back over to him,

and we ate breakfast in almost silence. So how'd your conversation with him go? To start with, hey, stepdad, what the, like, how did it start? So I tried to not be overly emotional about it. Why? I don't- I don't know. You know what?

I retract that. Why is a terrible question asked you and I just put you on the defensive and you don't need that right now. I'm sorry about that. That was a bad- that was a bad move on my part. Okay, so you're challenging him. Yeah. And so I sat down with him and I said, hey, I found something inappropriate on your phone that's concerning.

And he was like, yeah, what did you see? And so I told him, well, I saw the picture that you sent to yourself. And he said, oh, yeah, well, yeah, yeah, you know, it was, it's an app and I don't know, just playing around, I don't know, and just, you know, kind of wishy washy waffling back and forth of, you know, there's not an excuse for that. And so I asked him, I said, do you see me as a stepdaughter?

Because that's not, that's not what a step, like that's not a fatherly, you know, that's not something that a father figure would do. And he said, yeah, I know you're absolutely right. That's not something that a father figure would do. I do see you as a stepdad, but he couldn't look at me. So I don't believe him.

Like this does shatter my image of who he is in my life. But I just told him, hey, just delete the picture, delete the app. I don't want, I'm not gonna make a massive deal about this. I'm not gonna tell my mom. I don't, I just, at that moment, I just really did wanna forget about it, but I can't forget about it.

Yeah. But like I can't forget about it. Yeah Man So there's so many layers to this um Do you mind if I think about them out loud? Yeah, okay, so I'm gonna go real big picture and then get pretty granular with your situation. So big picture, we're in a new era. Normally to get a picture of a stepdaughter, and unfortunately I've seen this and been periphery to this and had some of these hard conversations, you'd have to physically sneak a photo of somebody, open up their blinds, somehow get your phone in the bathroom while

they're showering. You'd have to do a thing like that that is a crime. Now with these AI apps, you can take a benign picture and without committing a crime, have this as real as a real photo right there, right? Yep. It's a disturbing new world we've entered into. So that's big picture. Second picture is maybe not in the legal sense, but I want you to feel, I want to connect that feeling you have in your guts

and that feeling you have in your chest with that confusion in your mind, okay? It may not be a legal case, but this I consider this assault. I consider this a sex crime. Okay. At the very least, it's so disgusting that every bit of unmooring you feel, especially for somebody that came in as a rescuer,

because here's what you're, just for the people listening, here's what I know to be true. And feel free to tell me, actually, you missed this one. Now you are wondering what other pictures he has of you, for how long has he been looking at photos of you and your friends? Did he take pictures of you before these apps were out? Does he fantasize about, I mean, it unmoors everything, right? Yep.

And you and I both know this doesn't happen to a single time that someone happens to see a photo. You know that, I know that. And then I want to know what friends in the Middle East is he texting? And what is he sending? And honestly, that stuff does does matter but not right now right now you're just devastated And so I have all sorts of opinions on what you should do next and I also know it doesn't matter

My question to you is what do you want to do next? My question to you is what do you want to do next? Not what you think you should do. What is your gut telling you is the next right move? I'm so conflicted because he, part of me, like, I don't want to disqualify all the good that he's done in my life, but also, like, when I look back at our entire relationship, I was holding back, like, I think I knew something was off for a while, I didn't want to hug him, I didn't want to, like, tell him I love you.

He, again, he's been, like, a really good influence, didn't want to like tell him I love you. Again, he's been like a really good influence, but now I just feel dirty. Like I just, yeah, all those things are right. Like what, this feels like the tip of the iceberg, you know? Yeah. Hold on, don't, you're holding back, don't do that. Well, I don't want to tell you, I don't want to tell you what to do and what to feel right now, but if you'll honor yourself, don't hold those tears back. Because right now, if I'm, if I, I've sat with enough people in the

situation, there's a sense that if you start crying, you're never going to be able to stop. Is that fair? Yeah. Yeah, I just feel like if I actually show emotion, it'll be like completely the end of a relationship with him at all. Okay, but listen, he ended it and you have always known. You ever heard of the turkey problem? It's an economics thing

but it works here. A turkey is born the day after Thanksgiving and is moved into the family yard. And every day the farmer goes out and pets that turkey and feeds that turkey the best of the best of the best. And over time that turkey knows and would tell everybody, this is the greatest guy who ever lived. He feeds me every day, he pets me. He brings inmates for me until Thanksgiving morning.

And so maybe you have been caged with a predator for a long time and your instinct, your genetic line and your just grit and determination. Because let's say before him, your life was rough too, right? Yeah. Yeah. You're very tough and pretty gritty too, correct? Like you get stuff done, you figure it out, right?

Yeah. Okay. So it may be that caged with a predator, you have always, you've been able to extrapolate the good. And so I don't want you giving him credit for your survival and your hard work. Okay. I want you to know he destroyed this relationship, not you. Yeah, that's true. And I know that you want to hang on to it. Okay, you're getting hard on me.

Tell me what's happening inside your chest. I can feel you walling up. Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely correct. And I'm just really frustrated myself for not seeing what you're saying sooner of like, you're right, I have been chained to a predator and have made the most of the situation. But why did I not know? Like I knew, you know, as you said, like my God told me, I just didn't, I don't know if I didn't care or didn't want, like I'm just, I'm angry with myself. I'm frustrated.

How long have you known him? Since you were 20? He's been in my life as a stepdad since 20, but he's been in my life since I was like six or seven. Okay. Do you have any memories of him doing something shady? There was one time I remember I, um, I was rooming with, he was living with my mom and I was staying with his step, his daughter, my stepsister at his house. Um, but he was not living there.

And there was one night that he did come get into bed with me. Nothing happened, but he just slept there. Yeah. I'm sorry. You've been through enough and you didn't deserve to have another man blow your life up and I'm sorry. Me too.

So can I draw a map for you about what I think might happen down the road here? Just so you're not, I'm using it part as teaching for the people listening, but also just for you. If you're not there already, you're going to become overwhelmed with rage for your mom. And you're going to be overcome with rage for him And you're going to begin to ask yourself was your whole childhood a lie, what do you not remember and Then there's going to be little GPS pins popping up all over the place Okay, and then you're going to think about another sleepover when you had a friend over that you're going to think about all that it's just going to come back and pieces and

pieces and pieces until it's like a leak coming from a hot water heater until the whole thing just burst. Okay. And so I want you to hear me say you cannot go through this next stage by yourself. It'll kill you. Okay? Yeah, I'm just, I'm really scared about telling my mom because, you know, ever since I would, ever since they got together, um, she's been telling me like, you don't deserve a man as good as him in your life. And she's always felt like she has to compete with me for him. And, but you know, now she was crazy. Yeah.

Yeah. But now I'm seeing that like, wow, she, she saw, I mean, yeah, she saw, but the dot, dot, dot is that she know Yeah, I don't know if she knew or not. I pray to God she had no idea but I'm also not that naive That's right. That's right. And so the domino here is you may have lost your mom too. Yeah And if she knew she dragged her little daughter into a cage with a predator, shame on her. Shame on her. And you can find out with a simple email or a simple phone call. And if she chooses your side immediately, you know, oh my God, she didn't know.

And if she says, how dare you talk about this man that was so good, then you know, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think I already know. I just, I'm really not wanting to confirm that. It feels like you're holding a dam up with two hands. I want you just to look to your left and your right and see that dam has already blown out. That water is rushing. What was is now over. And so that strength

and energy you're using to hold up what was or the shreds of what was, it's just wasted energy. I want you to use that energy on you. And that means you're going to have to find people to do holidays with. That means you're going to have to find people to do holidays with. That means you're going to have to find people to celebrate with. That means you're going to have to go see a therapist for real. Probably a trauma informed therapist in the Raleigh area. I mean, you're going to have to do some of those things that are very hard and very uncomfortable because Renee, you deserve peace and your body does not know what that feels like. Renee, call anytime.

Everybody listening and everybody listening is probably feeling the same bit of disgust, the shock. Let's burn it down, call everybody. And that's what I want to say too. I want to tell Renee, you need to get on the phone, you need to call everybody, you need to burn it all down, you need to find out who is in the Sunday School class, all those things. And I get that. And also I want everybody to know I've sat've sat with so many rene's in my career and it I'm just so sick to

my stomach and heartbroken But there's a fog that and there's a depth of this hurt that is so almost it's a paralytic it's so hard and So the lot again the last thing she needs is some other man saying, here's what you got to do. That's not going to help. What she needs is somebody to sit by her and say, I'm not a predator and I'll sit with you and I'll listen. And I want to encourage you to do the next right thing. I have a feeling that when the fog begins to clear and Renee goes from numb to feeling that that rage will emerge and she'll enact justice across the board.

And those will be her calls to make. But Renee, I'm really honored that you sat with me and let me sit with you. All right, when we come back, I talk to a dad who is newly divorced and is really struggling with only seeing his kids half the time. We'll be right back. Alright, it's time for a quick word about Delete Me.

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Go to organifi.com slash deloni and use code deloni to save 20% off everything site-wide. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I, organifi.com slash deloni. Go check them out. Orlando, Florida, let's talk to Jay. What's up, Jay? Hey, John, how you doing? I'm doing great, brother.

What's up with you? Not too much, just living life, I guess. What's going on, brother? Yes, so I went through a divorce. That was final last July. My ex-wife, she originally left the marriage, coming upon two years now. Uh, we have two daughters.

Um, right now they're both, uh, there'll be four and eight this year. Um, the thing I'm still struggling a lot with is the fact that we have 50 50 custody and I'm having a hard time with the fact still of just being separated from my daughters. I still hold a lot of anger towards that part of it. I mean, their mom, she stepped out, she had an affair and all that. And that, okay, I got over it. It is what it is that happened.

But it's just the fact of being separated from my daughters knowing that they're still so young and the rest of their childhood, I can only be a part of the lives to deep center of the time. Yeah. So I don't want to live with this kind of feeling that pit in my stomach the rest of my life. I want to get to a place where I can be okay.

But it's been a couple of years now and I still hold that anger and just that feeling a pit in my stomach that I just can't seem to get over. Man, I got two things off top of my head here, but I'm going to go backwards. The first thing is I'll just sit with you for a second, man. I don't know how you do it. I don't know how anybody who splits custody does it. Because my life's just not complete when my kids are around. You know what I mean? Yeah. And they drive me crazy and we get on each other's nerves and it's loud and messy and but but dude my life's not complete. So I do it I'm

I'm sitting here with you just as a fellow dad. I can't imagine that kind of pain. I can't imagine that pain Right, and then you throw in is she dating again probably Yeah, she she's with the guy that she had an affair with um Yeah, basically as soon as she left she moved right in with him. Okay, my girls didn't know this guy And and I guess to kind of throw another layer onto that is, you know, how do I even get okay with another guy being kind of another father figure in their lives? Yeah.

I struggle with that too. Um, well, let's get on me. No, it's shit. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I just, yeah, I was just going to say, no, go over the last few years. People say it's just good Yeah, I'm just gonna say no going over the last two years people say it's just a new normal you get used to it but It is nothing no more about it. So it's like how do you get used to something like that? All right. Here's the first thing that it's just sitting on my chest and if I want to say it and tell me if I'm wrong

Okay Okay to say it and tell me if I'm wrong, okay? The pain that you feel for missing your daughters, dude, that's visceral. And just as a, like I said, as a dad, I can't even, I can't wrap my head around how painful that that would be. But I don't think that's where your anger comes from. The way you've mentioned this a few times, I think your anger is in a laser beam on your ex-wife. I still think you can't figure out what you did wrong

that she left you. I still think you're back there two years ago going, you're cheating on me, like what? And so you're living with the reality that you don't get to see your daughters half the time. Can't imagine that. But I think I think the source the epicenter of your hurt is that you still haven't metabolized the fact that your marriage is over. Like you're still living in that marriage and she still controls your thoughts.

She still controls, is one of the first people you think of during the day when you wake up. Like you're so angry and you're stuck in the grief that she blew up y'all's life. Yeah. Until you grieve, brother, that your marriage period at the end of it is over, it's just going to, you're going to constantly be having nuclear reactor in the middle of your chest. And you can then go around and cast stories on other situations in your life, other pain points, not getting to see your daughters, this scumbag who like hooked up with a married woman and then now she's with him, right? You can cast other people in your life as the villains.

And there's truth to that. But I think the real hurt here, man, is you haven't gone through the full grief cycle of you lost your marriage. You never considered yourself to be a single dad. You never considered you would have to say, hi, I'm Jay, I'm divorced. Does that ring true? Tell me if I'm out to lunch, man.

No, I think you're hitting it on the head pretty well there. I mean, I know, I guess I can kind of agree with that because even just dealing with their mom, I still get anxious. That's it. It tends to, I hate having to have any kind of communication with her. Tell me about that. Is it because you're enraged with her or the layer beneath that is you're still wondering what's so bad about you? I think it comes from so during the time, the first year of us being separated, she

was back and forth with this guy quite a bit and when she wasn't with him we were able to be cordial and you know talk through things. When she was with him I was the enemy. They did a lot to just disrespect me as our girl's father, belittle me as her father's more him. Give me an example. Um, so, uh, there was one instance where one of my daughters had pneumonia. She had to stay overnight at the hospital. Um, and so I let the staff there, no, Hey, the mom's coming with this guy just so you know, he and I, we don't get along. Um, it's best keep us separate or whatever and so

Let me stop right there. Why would you feel the need to preface that? Because he always has to make comments towards me like Like for instance like when this happened and then when I spoke with him like for instance like when this happened and then when I spoke with him, he could still see me and he was like, thanks for that, not allowing me to come in the room right now. I was like, you're not their dad. Of course. He goes, I am their dad, is what his response was. Wow. Okay. So things like that, just to try to dig at it even further. So let me ask you, this is a hard question, but like it or not, he's a man that your daughter

spent 50% of their life with. Right. Tell me about the power play on display at a hospital when you have a little girl there and laying there in the hospital with pneumonia that you wouldn't be able to just suck your pride and bury it for a second and let all three of y'all in the room to be with this little girl. I guess of the anxiety that I get when I was around the drum that time, okay Um, there was other stuff that's happened up until then

So it like before all this happened I was I was never anxious for nothing. I was carefree No, but your life blew up your body now is a GPS pin and pain that you did not ever you couldn't imagine and here it is Right, right, right Yeah, and so your body's right your anxiousness is right that you did not ever, you couldn't imagine and here it is. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And so your body's right. Your anxiousness is right. Now you know somebody who says I do, might stab you right in the face.

Now you know a love that you didn't know you were capable of with two beautiful little girls and then you only get to see them half the time. You didn't know that kind of pain. And so your anxiousness is right. two beautiful little girls and then you only get to see them half the time. You didn't know that kind of pain. And so your anxiousness is right. But I think it's because your body is still trying to solve for what was instead of owning reality choosing what is.

Right. And it's solving that anxiety. Yeah. And that's where I'm stuck. Okay. I don't know how to. I got you there. I'm stuck. Okay. I don't know how to... I got you there. I'm going to send you Building a Non-Anxious Life, my book for free.

Okay? It's going to be my gift to you. Okay. Okay? Thank you. I'm going to hook you up with that. I'm also going to hook you up with three months free from my friends at BetterHelp, licensed therapists.

You can check them out online at your computer at your house. Okay? Okay. I'll hook you up with that. And you can call them and just begin to walk through some of this stuff. But here's the big thing I want you to do. Do you have a couple of boys that live there with you in Florida, some men that you trust?

I do, yeah. This is gonna sound ridiculous. And you can say this idiot podcaster told me to do this and so I'm gonna give it a shot. I want you to have them over to your house and I want you to have a miniature funeral for your marriage. Okay? This is you pronouncing it in front of a couple

of other people. This is over. And if you wanna take a step further, this old Terry Real move which I love, get a picture of your ex-wife and get a picture of her new boyfriend and frame them and put them at your kitchen table. And every time you're mad look over and say, I'm gonna choose to have less of a relationship with my daughter to honor you two. I'm gonna let y'all continue to ruin my evenings, keep me out of the dating game, get frustrated all the time.

I'm gonna honor you two. And then really quickly, you're gonna see how ridiculous that is. Right? Or keep a picture of your ex-wife up just at the dinner table in a small little frame. And when you start to spin out, literally lean over and put the picture face down

and say, you don't get a vote anymore. Cause you're gonna have to teach your body cause it's still trying to protect you. It still thinks it can hold on to this marriage. It's over and now You have to and hopefully she does too. Hopefully this other guy does too. You're gonna have to enter into adulthood

Which means I'm gonna put the needs of our kids ahead of my ego of my anxiousness of my whatever Right, and you let me tell you something crazy now. I don't know all the ins and outs so you can decide for yourself If this is dumb But if you were to call this guy and say hey you mind grabbing a cup of coffee with me and saying at the hospital I was wrong I say, Hey, you mind grabbing a cup of coffee with me? And saying at the hospital, I was wrong. I know you see her 50% of the time. I'm their dad. It makes me uncomfortable when you say that.

I don't like it. I'm their dad. But also I know you care about my daughters too. And that won't happen again. If they go to the hospital we're all gonna be there because we're the three adults in their life like it or not that's the way this is. Right. And that olive branch he may take that olive branch from you and stab you

with it maybe. Or he may take that olive branch from you and just exhale. And if you say I want to do what's best for these girls Right and so I want to trust you I gotta know your name You got to be able to text me and say hey eight year old just started her period when she was 12 and mom's struggling with it Just know yeah, we got to be able to text each other or some boys around here You know trying to talk to her just FYI, y'all gotta be able to do that for her. Right. And he may tell you to go to hell, dude, but at least you know I did the right adult thing

for my kids. Yeah, yeah, I've actually had thoughts about just saying, I'm here, let's go to the hatchet, what happened happened. And kind of move on from there. But if you've been an anxious mess fighting the whole way, and by the way, he only only has an earful of how evil you are and how dumb you are from her. And she has shown the world what kind of character and integrity she has, none, right? And so you've dated people in the past who was like,

my ex-boyfriend was this and this and this. Maybe you got one side of that story. And so calling him and saying, hey, let's bury the hatchet, that's a step, a better path towards connecting, because this guy's going to be in your kid's life a lot, is starting with, hey, I was wrong. I messed this up. And if you get to a point in that conversation, you can say, bro, you slept with my wife.

Like, of course with my wife. Like, of course this is hard, right? I mean, it's just putting it on the table. He knows it, you know it. Not saying it doesn't make it go away. And then maybe putting it out there, only seeing my girls 50% of the time is like guts me. But you're not able to move to sad yet because you're still so mad and you're still so mad because I think you're still hanging on this marriage in a

weird way. Right. Yeah. I mean, I do feel like, like if she was trying to come back, I wouldn't. You think about it. Like if she was trying to come back I wouldn't um you think about it Yeah, I only say that because she didn't within the first nine months of her being back for this guy I took it back twice. Yeah, I had about six or seven times and Don't ever to take off again. Yeah, and So no, I told myself, you know, I would never do that. And just seeing how heartbroken my older daughter was when she did it again, I was like, I never put them. That's right.

That's right. And I mean, I don't, I can't tell you whether to take her back or not. My gut says, I don't know why you would, but a lot of that even that circular thinking, that circular conversation is because you haven't fully ended it yet. And to you, she's still like a prodigal wife.

You still are waiting for her to come home every night. And even though you're like, I'm not gonna take her back, but you kind of wish you would, right? So it's just metabolizing this thing happened and that marriage is over. Even if y'all got back together someday, y'all are building a totally new thing. A new thing that she may leave, she may sleep with one of your friends,

she may like, who knows, right? And you may turn into an anxious wreck and let your ego speak for you. So all this to say is get a couple of friends over and let's exhale on this marriage. And let's make a conscious decision and it's gonna take some practice, let's make a conscious decision and it's gonna take some practice 60, 90, 120 days, two, three, four months.

She doesn't get a vote. I'm not waking up thinking about her every minute of every day. I'm just not. I'm going to call this other man who's 50% of my daughter's waking moments are with him and I'm going to bury my ego in the backyard and we're going to do its best. I'm going to start by saying that was a bad call on my part, dude. That was me just uncomfortable and I shouldn't have done that in the hospital. That won't happen again. And please understand I'm trying my best to navigate this with you. You slept with my wife

for crying out loud. It's hard for me, but I'm doing the best thing for these girls. And we got to be able to text back and forth for their sake because they need one continuous stream. And is this pie in the sky? Of course it is. If most people could be this emotionally mature, they wouldn't get divorced in the first place. But here we are. And all we can do is the next right thing.

And for you, I think the next right thing is grieving this marriage and then Taking that next step forward Thanks for the call my brother. I'm really grateful. Holler at me If y'all have that call that would be rad and by the way, you know, I've never had on the show I've never had um a Bio dad and a stepdad call together and say how do we best honor these kids? I'll take that call every single day So if y'all want to do that, that would be amazing. Reach out to Kelly and we would make that one

happen my brother. That'd be cool. Also, no, that's probably not gonna happen, but man I would love for it to. When we come back, we talk to a woman who's trying to figure out with her teenage son with her teenage son about sleepovers. Pfft, pfft, pfft. Stay tuned. All right, let's talk about Cozy Earth. Y'all have all heard me say, I love sleeping in a cold, cold room, and my wife would prefer to sleep

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fully understand the difference. Plus, Cozy Earth goes to great lengths to verify their materials are responsibly sourced so you can feel good about how you sleep and how your sheets are made. And remember, Cozy Earth's Spring into Comfort Sales happening right now with exclusive savings for you watching or listening to this show. 40% off all products. That's 40% off. Visit CozyEarth.com slash Deloney and use code Deloney for 40% off. That's C-O-Z-Y, CozyEarth.com slash Deloney. All right, let's go out to Boise, Idaho and talk to Annie. What's up, Annie? Oh, not much.

How are you? I'm doing great. What's going on in your world? Good. Good. Well, not much. Advice from you. You got it.

What's up? All right. So how can we manage our son's frustration while standing firm on our no sleepover rule? No sleepover rule. Okay. How old is your son? He is 12. Okay.

Almost 13. So I want to applaud your stance on no sleepovers. There's literature that exists about the increased sexual predator, like just madness. There's also anecdotally, I just can't tell you the number of people who had incidents at sleepovers. Like our team was talking before this call just about sleepovers and everybody's got stories, all of us, right? So I'm a hundred percent behind you. I think no sleepover rule is fantastic. And we'll get into a little bit of the downstream stuff,

but I want to answer your big question upfront. You cannot manage the frustration of a 12 year old. You can't. And to try to do that is futile. What you can say every single day of his life is my job is to keep you safe and my job is to love you. Yeah. And that comes with some of these hard decisions. And I always give my kids permission to tell their friends that their dad's a moron, outdated idiot. I don't need him. I always felt

the need and my dad never said this explicitly, but I always felt the need to protect my parents when they gave me these, what I thought at the time were crazy boundaries with my 13 or 14 year old brain. I don't want my kids to ever feel like they have to protect me. So tell your friends that your dad's the worst, that your dad's lame.

That's no skin off my nose. And then occasionally maybe your house becomes the sleepover house But that's a conversation for after 12 Yeah, yeah, we've had those conversations where we are we are totally open to the sleepovers at our house But that kind of makes me feel a little hypocritical. Nope, nope. With the parents. Because it's not, the concept isn't sleepover. The concept is environment.

Right, it's our values. That's right. Yeah. And so I can tell you, like when we used to let my kids go over to, like, we'll come pick you up at midnight, we'll pick you up at 1 a.m. Yep. Like, make no mistake, awkward or not, my wife was calling and only because I was at

work, my wife would call and say, hey, my kid can go over there, but there can't be any phones, no kids can have phones. Can I tell you something crazy? This is just this limited friend group, 100% of them took up all the phones when the kids came over. They just did it. And if they were like, well, then your kid can't come over, then great. I don't want my kid over there anyway.

Yeah. But they did that. And Hey, my kid isn't watching these kinds of movies. Awesome. Done. Next. Right. And so it was all, it was super good.

And I'm going to tell you maybe 13. I don't remember exactly when But I've allowed it I've allowed it twice And it was with the family that I trust implicitly it was with a family that Has the same electronics rule and here's the bigger one. It was a family where most people get mistaken on on where things happen at sleepovers is often it's not the parents and it's not the kid. And it's not the kid they're sleeping over with. It's that kid's older brother or sister

who has a friend over, right? That's what we get. Yeah, I'm laughing because that's exactly, we know the dangers, we know it's, yeah, it's the friend that comes over that we don't know who has a smartphone. We, you know, it's when the parents go to sleep at night, like does the smartphone get taken out? What's my kid being exposed to?

Or worse, hey, let's play a game. Yeah. And that friend's 17 and your kid's 12. Yep. let's play a game. Yeah. And that friend's 17 and your kid's 12. Yep. Let's play a game. And now we're in a big mess. Right? So, I don't feel any sort of hypocrisy.

Number one, again, this is easy for me to say, right? If other parents don't like me, I'm okay with that. I have my friends, or if they don't understand me, if they don't like me, I'm okay with that. I have my friends, or if they don't understand me, if they want to ask me, I'll be happy to explain it. But I have no problem saying, yeah, as for me and my house, we don't do X, Y, and Z. And by the way, most of my friends give their kids smartphones, and they know my stance on smartphones. Every friend I have has a credit card card and they know that I don't, I opted out of the credit system, right?

Every friend I have is a Ford family and I drive Toyota, right? So like I was just saying in another episode, one of my best friends on the planet is a banker. And other than this show, I co-host a show about getting people out of debt every day I go to work trying to get people to not use my best friend's business and Every day he goes to work and tries to convince people that I'm a goofball And we still love each other, right? So I don't feel like I need to explain my values I will if somebody asks about them, but if you don't like my values,

and you're so dumb and that's super great, I'm not gonna lose sleep over you. You don't get a vote in my life. And so one of my values for my kids is, I want them in not risky situations. We do have sleepovers at our house. Dude, they're out in the woods. I don't know where they are. I know they're not in a city playing playing

Playing chicken in the middle of the highway like I used to But I know they're in the woods and they're probably playing some form of chicken because that's what they do But it's probably I bet you won't jump in that huge hole in that Creek or whatever. I'm okay with a broken leg I'm not okay with a kid getting blasted across the highway, right? You know what I'm saying? So like, I'm not about not taking risks. I'll see them climbing trees or sword fighting each other with crazy.

Like I'm not about that. I'm all about that. This is gonna sound crazy. I think kids need more broken hands and fingers and arms. Like they're not risking anything. It's that I will control the safety environment. And that's for me. And so as for me in my house,

I know that when people are at my house, they don't have access to the wifi and they won't have access to smartphones. And I know that there's not gonna be somebody's friends, other brothers, sisters, cousins show up that suddenly says, hey, y'all wanna play a game. I control that. And over time, if there's one or two families

or three families that you begin to trust there, I'm all cool with that. Yeah, yeah, we do have an exception where, we don't have family close by. And so we have a family at church that we share the same values and we have let both of our boys go over and stay at their house. And that's always, that's mostly for us.

Like if there's ever an emergency where they need to stay somewhere, they feel comfortable there. Sure. So we have that exception. It can be fun too. It can be fun too, right? It can be fun too. But it's kind of like when your kid turns like 13,. I don't know I don't want to become the movie police

But I let my 14 year old and I we watched um Tombstone the other night Mm-hmm two of the greatest movies ever and That doesn't mean that he gets to watch every rated-R movie that ever went out there Yeah, I get to curate movie that ever went out there. Yeah. I get to curate it. I'm his dad.

Yeah. Right? And so all that to say is, you don't owe an apology to anybody. Your 12 year old is supposed to put, if it, let me say this as boldly as I can. If you're a 12 year old likes you all the time, you're probably not parenting well. Yeah, true. Right? The research says, firm parenting with love. I will hold very firm boundaries, very high expectations, and you will always know that

I love you to the end of time. Overly permissive parents destroy their kids. Overly critical, overly strict parents with no connection or love destroy their kids. It's the one in the middle. Yeah. But I can't give you any piece on your 12 year old getting mad and going to bed.

Yeah. Especially when he says this, tell me he says this. any piece on your 12 year old getting mad and going to bed. Yeah. Especially when he says this, tell me he says this. I'm not going to have any friends. Nobody calls me anymore because I can't do anything. You guys are keeping me from having any sort of friends and I'm lonely, all that. Yeah.

Yeah. We've compromised where we will let him go when it's a weekend and his buddies are together and we'll go and pick him up at, like you said, 11 o'clock at night. And he just gets frustrated that we're taking him from... And yeah, we're just, we're so firm and really wanting to stick to our guns on protecting him. So yeah, I don't know if protecting, I guess that I guess that's the right word. For some reason, when you said that it rubs me in the wrong way, I don't know that it's protecting them as much as it's my job to make sure they remain as much as possible

in environments where they can make successful choices. My goal isn't to make all the choices for my kids. My goal is, especially when they're younger, and of course this increasingly opens up as they get older, I want to make sure that I'm curating environments where if they make a wrong choice, it ends in a broken arm not a pregnancy it ends in Somebody I don't know falling out of a tree and

breaking their foot or their ankle and not Them having to go see a sexual abuse counselor 15 years later Mm-hmm or seeing things in their mind that they can never unsee. Right? So I'm not gonna pick the movie for them, but I'm gonna make sure that I, it's like, it's like Vordeyer and for jury selection. I'm not gonna pick the movie I'll watch,

but I'm gonna get rid of these because you're not watching those. Right? So I just want to give them environments where they can make successful choices. And after 11 o'clock, I mean, really, the only thing to do is to watch a movie you're not supposed to watch

or stay up so late that you're useless the next day. Yep. You're 12. You know what I mean? Yeah. When you're in college, make those choices, knock your lights out. Yeah, for sure.

So I think you're on the right path. You've got my stamp of approval. You're a good mom, good dad, knock your lights out. Yeah, for sure. So I think you're on the right path. You've got my stamp of approval. You're a good mom, good dad, stick to your guns. Awesome, thank you. And when your kid doesn't like you, I think it's fair to say, I know this is the worst. I know it, it's the worst. Yeah.

And you are right to be frustrated with us and you are right to feel like we're taking away everything. I totally get that. Feel free to tell your friends that we're the worst, but my job is to keep you safe and put you in positions where you can make the best choices. Yep. I like that. You don't love me.

You're, you're okay. Right. Okay. Yeah. And I'll leave you with this. I won't say which kid, because I think some of my kids, both my kids are getting old enough now with their friends like, is your dad on it? Right.

But my wife and I took a long walk the other night. And it was a bummer because we have to hold, we were doing something pretty cool and we've got to hold one of our kids accountable, which means we have a really cool thing planned and they're not going to be able to do it. And it actually bums us out because doing it with them would have been the best. And my wife was Dr. Deloney long before me. She's a maestro with K-12 kids and I do this for a living.

And we still had to walk around the neighborhood for a couple of miles, just both talking out loud, but we were really circling grief. I don't want to hold them accountable. I don't want to hold her accountable. I just want to blow it off. And that would be dishonoring and not loving my son and my daughter, right?

Right. So just know it's never gonna feel good, but often doing the right thing doesn't feel good, but we do it because it's right. So high five to you, Annie. And parents, if you're like, oh, who cares? Just sleep over. Times have changed.

Times have changed. We'll be right back. Hey, here's a quick word about the best mattresses in the world. Helix. Spring is here and that means the darkness and the cold are finally lifting and we can get back into the swing of life. Spring break, summer plans, I feel like I'm coming back alive. So, let's all reset. Most of us have already blown our resolutions,

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All right. We are back for a money and marriage question. These are questions that were people submitted for the money marriage retreat. We just got back from a cruise, a big chunk of us went, me and my, my network colleagues went out and Rachel Cruz and I did a version of Money Marriage on a cruise ship. It was awesome, man. But here is a Money Marriage question. This is a real question that somebody submitted.

Is there such thing as having too much sex? No. Such thing is having too much sex. No. Ta-da! Feel like I nailed that one. Feel like I just crushed it. You are brilliant. If you're having sex that you don't want to be having, that's a problem.

If you're having sex in a marriage and you're being coerced or your partner says you have to or the Bible says you have to or I get what I that's a problem. But if you two are like again today, yep. Want to go for three? Yep. Rock on to the break of dawn. Does that sound right, Kelly? Yeah, that sounds great. As long as you're not being coerced or trying to... Everything I say sounds inappropriate here, but you're trying to substitute that

for something else that there's a problem. You're using sex as a Xanax. Yeah. Or is it a way to keep somebody at bay or to keep somebody from bothering you? Right. Or solving a problem, band-aiding over a problem. But otherwise, bring it. Yeah.

There's a lot of talk in the sex and relationships literature about the orgasm gap. That I think it's 40% for women and 90% or the orgasm gap. That I think it's 40% for women and 90% or something higher for men. I haven't looked at it in a minute, but whenever I teach this, I always go back to if you ate at a restaurant and it was only good 40% of the time, you would not look forward to going six out of 10 times

the restaurant wasn't good. You wouldn't go. If the restaurant was great 90% of the time and it was fine that other time, you would go all the time. And so sometimes when it comes to, if we're having too much sex, it's people have figured out that orgasm gap and people have figured out like, Oh, if we work together on this deal, this could be amazing. So no, and by the way, um, outside of a sexless marriage where, where there is a gap between um, desire where people are having, not having the conversations and one person's weaponizing

sex. I would go as far as to say, um, if you are intimate, meaning you're connected, you have skin on skin time, if y'all are proximal, you sit by each other, you nuzzle up to each other on the couch, I would also say there doesn't have to be a floor on a bare minimum of sex you need to be having. If you both are saying, no, no, no,

this is the world that we want and this is the one that we are co-creating. Where it gets to be a problem is when there's mixed match desire. But on its face, is there such thing as having too much sex? Nope. If y'all are both in, both consenting

and both ready to rock on till the break of dawn, rock on till the break of dawn. That's it. Money marriage, come see us in November. If you're wondering, yes, we talk about this and so, so, so much more. Come see us in November. If you're wondering, yes, we talk about this and so, so, so much more.

Have a conversation with your partner about sex. What do you like? What do you not like? Do we have enough? Are we having it too much? What's one thing you wanna try? What's one thing that makes you nervous? How can I love you more?

I feel like you're coercing me. I feel like I have to. I feel like this is a duty. Those are some good conversation starters. Love you guys. Bye.