The Dr. John Delony Show - My Stepson’s Behavior Freaks Me Out

Episode Date: August 10, 2022

Today, we’re talking with a woman who’s just learned her stepkids have threesomes with one another, a man struggling to move on from his codependent marriage, and a mom wondering how to talk to her son about the fire that destroyed his school. Lyrics of the Day: "Jumper" - Third Eye Blind Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I caught her seeing another guy. I put her as the center of my world. My happiness relied on her. She wasn't happy. I wasn't happy. And I know I put a lot of stress on her because of that. I could have been better.

Okay. You could have been better, and she could have made different choices too. Dude, last night me and my friends had a 90s sing-along here in Nashville. We got some free tickets to go see Third Eye Blind and Taking Back Sunday like it's 1998. Two things. One, go to shows with your friends. It's so fun, man. Even if they're not your jam, just go anyway. It's a blast. And number two, we've got to, as a society, as a culture, we've got to take a stand. And this has to be a bipartisan, everybody comes together on this.

We all have to agree there needs to be an age limit for who can purchase clothes for themselves at Hot Topic. I think just globally speaking, if you're over 19, you can't go into Hot Topic and think, this looks cool, I'm going to buy this for me. Now, I've done that. I've actually, I've bought Hot Topic things in the mall as a grownup. So I'm speaking to myself here. But as I looked around and on stage, I thought, you're too old for that. You're too old. And it was a good reminder to me that as I age, I should have less baby pins on my clothes and less zippers in the middle of my back and things like that. Don't have much of a utilitarian function, but sure look cool to the 16-year-old.

So I think as a country, if someone would propose that legislation, I'll vote for you. I don't care what much of your other positions are. But if you will make the great hot topic bill of 2022, I would be full support. Hey, and this is the Dr. John Deloney show. I'm so glad you're here. I've got sing-along in my head. It's the greatest mental health podcast ever. Said not very many people. And I'm glad you're with us. If you want to be on the show, go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K, and fill out the form. Or you can call 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291.

All right, let's go to Bridget in Baltimore. What's up, Bridget? Hi, how are you? I'm good, how are you? Pretty good. Good, what's up? So I have an interesting question. So my stepson, who's 20, moved back to the Baltimore area not too long ago.

And we were getting our nails done one day with my husband and him. And he casually said, oh, by the way, I had a threesome with my brother and his wife. And so my husband and I don't know how to handle that. Really? Okay, so the whole picture here is fantastic. And by fantastic, I mean highly disturbing. So you, how old are you? I'm 26.

This is even more fantastic. How old is your husband? 43. Okay. And, all right, so he has remarried somebody basically the same age as his kids. Yes. And y'all, all three of you were out getting manicures together.

Yes. Incredible. And then, I say incredible, I guess that's not a bad thing to eat your own. My dad's never taken me for a manicure. I may hit him up for one over the holidays. So, the three of y'all are out, and while y'all are getting your manicure, your stepson, who's the same age as you,

it sounds like a country song, your stepson is the same age as you, tells you and your husband, hey, BT Dubs, I had a threesome with my brother and his wife. Yes. Was it just like a casual, like, hey, by the way, Starbucks, the pumpkin spice lattes are coming out early this year. Oh, and, I mean, was it like that? Or was it like a big- Yeah, pretty much. He didn't, I mean, he didn't really think anything of it.

He thinks it's totally fine. All right, so there's no way. I don't, I've met with some folks who have some very outside-the-bell-curve sexual preferences, proclivities. Nobody would think, this is super normal or super cool. What was the follow-up conversation like? There was nothing. So that's what I found upsetting is my husband didn't really say anything about it because he has PTSD from being in the Army, and he says nothing really shocks him. So he didn't really say anything about it because he has PTSD from being in the army.

And he says nothing really shocks him. So he didn't really find it that. All right. So not responding to that has nothing to do with PTSD. Okay. It doesn't. It's not like nothing can shock you. Fine.

PTSD is a diagnostic. That's a whole other. That's a trauma response. I don't, that was just simply he either froze or he doesn't care. But that's not, those are, I would not conflate those two things. So let's say that like, how long have y'all been married? Five and a half years. Okay.

So you, how old, you were a half years. Okay. Um, so you, how old were you? You were 21? Yes. And you met this strapping 39 year old. How'd that, how'd y'all meet? Uh, Facebook. I love the internets. Of course you did. That's fantastic. Wow. Okay. So what's your question? How about that? Let's start there. So my question is, is I told my mom this, like, cause I was so shocked and I didn't get a reaction to him. And I was kind of like, how do I process this?

So I called my mom. Why did you call your mom? You're a, you're like a grown, married, like, why'd you call your mom? Is she just like a confidant for you? Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay.

And so she said that, so the plot twist of this is that he came back to the area. There's a plot twist. I thought this was most of the movie. Let's plot twist. Go for it It's that he is working for my husband and I So that's why he came back to the area

So I was telling my mom About the situation And she's like Well you should keep it just professional Because we were taking him out to eat And trying to help him out I was going above and beyond Doing all kinds of other stuff for him

To help him out And so my mom's like You should stop doing that pretty much and trying to help him out. I was going above and beyond doing all kinds of other stuff for him to help him out. And so my mom's like, you should stop doing that pretty much and take a step back and just do business with him now. But my husband's like, why should you treat him any differently? Because this was in the past. And the reason why he stopped doing this with his brother and his wife was because he said he wasn't attracted to his wife. so he would have kept doing it had he found her attractive but that means y'all had more than one conversation about this

or was that after that like this is like a few weeks ago so i brought it up to him because i was like i'm a little disturbed that you're not saying anything about this. And I think you need to tell him that it's not right. Okay. And what was the response there? He's like, I told him, but what do you want me to do? Cut him off just because he did something like this. And I was like, I don't know. Okay.

You're the only person on the phone with me. And so I am, can only talk to you is that cool all right so um i am a i don't say outside the box nothing like your husband nothing surprised me nothing shocks me anymore okay um and i am almost universally very sympathetic to situations people find themselves in, whether it's addiction, whether it's sexual, like whatever, wherever they find themselves. I always want to sit down and offer some offer a drink and some nachos. Let's figure this out. Okay. But nobody else is on the phone but you and me.

So I will say I will boldly state I'm going to go way out on a line, on a thin line here and say, having sex with your brother and your brother's spouse is pretty screwed up. By any metric, it's pretty distorted, disturbing behavior. But that goes way over here because that's not the real issue. Here's the real issue. You are an adult, five years into a marriage, and you are responding to those around you like a child. You call your mommy for advice. You're talking to your husband as though he's your dad. And you are bouncing your values and your safety and your business off of... you're not making decisions from a value-based core, okay?

So the issue here is, yes, that is outside the bell curve. That's way out there, okay? Anybody listening to this, very, very few people will experience their son having sex with his brother and his wife, right? Very few people. All of us will experience, I don't want to be around X, Y, and Z. I don't want to be around certain behaviors. I don't want to work with certain behaviors. I'm not going to have employees

that work for me that act certain ways. And you have to decide what your values are, what you will and will not tolerate. And then you've got to make those decisions based on your values. Does that make sense? Yes. And so let me ask you, do you want to do business with this person? Because A, you're disgusted by it, but B, I can hear in your voice,

you don't trust this person, their wisdom, their decision-making, like I can hear it in you. Do you want to do business with this person? I mean, if it's just business, then he's okay. But personal life, they're just a bunch of crazy stuff that happens with him that I don't want involved in. And that was my next step is this is one isolated, this is not one isolated incident. Let me say it like that. There's going to be other behavioral issues. Is that fair? Way more. Okay. So, um,

have you sat down and told your husband, I do not want to have meals with this person. I don't want this person in my home. Uh, yes. And he gets kind of like defensive. Okay. So there is a challenge that you found yourself where you're going to end up pitting you and your values versus your husband and his kids. This is different when they're at home, right? And this is a, I'll tell folks the opposite of what I'm going would tell you. When there are young children at home, you can, as a stepmom, if you will, you can never pit your spouse against their kids. This, in my mind, is different because this is y'all's home, right? These are grown kids, lived somewhere else, and now they're circling back. And this is, I think you've got every right to say, this is what I need in this

home. Or let me ask you another question. If he lets this kid move in, he's like, hey, he's falling on hard times. He's moving in. Are you going to stay? We've already done that once. Okay. And I mean, so the question, I mean, he has an apartment, so that's not going to happen. Oh, sweet Bridget. It can happen anytime. It can happen anytime. Anytime. So let's just call it. What are your boundaries going to be?

Is there ever a moment when you're going to leave? I don't know. You do know. Because I have so many people in my head telling me like oh it's not wrong it is wrong I know it's wrong but I don't know how to handle it like where do I draw the line

nobody thinks that's okay nobody nobody you've had friends and family tell you dude it's all good. It's cool. Not exactly cool, but everyone's like,

oh, well, I did a Facebook poll on it just out of curiosity. Some people are like, it's not your business, so stay out of it because they're adults. Hey, you know what? That's different. That's actually accurate.

It's their business. But when it becomes your business is when that sort of character, that sort of behavior, that sort of lack of judgment and wisdom comes into your home, comes into your business. So you can't make adults stop doing behaviors. You can't. The only person you can control is you. So A, never put family business in a Facebook poll. Good God, Bridget. Don't ever do that ever. Two, the advice you got is actually correct. The question you have to ask yourself is what are you going to do? Not what are they going to do? Your husband can't stop them, his two sons from having sex together. He can't.

And having threesomes, but he can't stop that. What he can stop is, I'm not going to participate in that world. Does that mean he should just do business? No! I don't do business with people that I wouldn't share a meal with. Okay. I don't because business, you can't bifurcate the business.

There's a fantastic study. And I remember driving home with my eyes bugging out of my head that this was a study and that I was like, didn't we all know this? But clearly we didn't. Do you remember back in the day? you may be a bit young, there was, I think it was Holly Madison Kelly? The website, yeah, it was Ashley Madison. Okay, it was Bridget,

it was a site called Ashley Madison and it was a, do you remember that? No. Okay, so it was a quote unquote anonymous site for married people to have affairs with other married people who are interested in it. And it was kind of like Tinder or whatever. It was like way upstream of those. It was earlier on, but you could put in your email address and put in your

credit card number and then meet up with other married people in your area. Somebody leaked all of the email addresses. And there was a big take like famous people and fancy pants, religious, like people got busted. Okay. But a couple of social scientists did a study. They took the addresses and went and thumbed through companies and businesses in the US. And I'm gonna butch the details a little bit, but the findings are, I remember them. They went through the companies and found that people who were on this site, who were willing to cheat on their spouse, had more ethics violations, had more business issues, had less profits,

et cetera. Why this was huge was it had always been known, you just need to get the best baseball player. Drug addict, cheats on his wife all the time. It's fine because he shows up and performs on that field. Or get the best CEO. Doesn't matter their ethics they can have a drug problems crazy stuff have private jets that fly to islands whatever they're going to show up and they're going to produce they're going to do great and what this study showed was that if somebody's willing to cheat on their spouse they're going to cheat in their business if somebody's going to cut corners in their personal life they're going to cut corners in their business because that's who they are. That's the way they operate in the world. And so I tell you that to tell you, if there's decision-making happening in somebody's personal life, it's like, what are you

doing? I wouldn't trust you with my child, then I'm not going to trust you with my business. The other side of that is this, at the company I work for, they give us all debit cards. Debit cards, not credit cards, they give us debit cards. And one of my favorite things about my boss, his business buddies are like, I can't believe you would trust your employees with debit cards to the company account. And his response is, I can't believe you would hire people to run your business that have your family's name attached to it, that you don't trust enough with your money.

If you're going to trust them with your name, you see what I'm seeing? See where I'm going here. There is no difference between business and personal when it comes to, I trust you here, but not here. I just feel bad because he quit his job to come out here and work for us. That's why I feel guilty too.

And so now this becomes about you trying to squash how you feel, squash your values, squash what's important to you because somebody else is going to feel bad. The non-technical term is you're a people pleaser. You're a peacemaker. And peacemakers often go to other people to ask for how they should feel about things. Yeah. Like their parents, even though they've been married for five years.

Like their spouse, even though they're disgusted and they feel not right and not level. Okay? See what I'm saying? Yeah. And I want to make real clear. Give me a couple of examples of other behaviors that make you just say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want this person in my house. So he used to call the cops on my husband and make up that he was beating him to try to get his dad in trouble because he wouldn't let him go out with his friends and stuff like that. Okay.

So you've got integrity issues and you've got wisdom issues, right? Yeah. Yeah. Is there substance abuse issues as well? No. No. Is there substance abuse issues as well? No. I would challenge that. Stone sober? As far as I know.

I said earlier, I don't get shocked by much. I would be shocked by that. Here's the deal. So you've got this outside of the bell curve situation, right? Yeah, you've got somebody in your life that's doing life differently than your set of values. The first thing you got to do is you got to sit down and identify what your values are.

What's the life you want to live? What's the life you want to live? What's the life you want to lead? You cannot change other people's behavior. So your internet poll was right. Like, people are going to do what they're going to do, right? And I'm all about letting people do what they want to do. The only person I can control is me. And the only person you can control, Bridget, is you.

And so at some point you got to say, here's what I'm going to tolerate in my life and here's what I'm not. Here's what I'm going to share meals with and here's what I'm not. And the people that I've had at my house stay at my home across the spectrum would shock people. I love having people at my house. I like my kids meeting a wild array of wonderful different people. I love having people at my house. I like my kids meeting a wild array of

wonderful different people. My life is enriched by that. But one common thread through all the people that stay at my home, all the people I consider friends, all the people I consider people that I love has very little to do with political spectrum, has very little to do with political spectrum. Has very little to do with whether I agree with all their behaviors or not. Has way more to do with, do I trust them? Are they wise? Are they loving people who care about me and my family and others? And that's not the situation you find yourself in. It sounds like you find yourself in a situation where you feel scared and exposed

and your eyes just bug out of your head and you're looking around saying, is everyone else seeing this? And everyone's kind of just putting their head down and saying, let's just keep going, let's just keep going. And at some point you got to look in the mirror and say, I'm cool with this, I'm good. This is going to be what this is going to be.

I married this guy, I'm in. And so if he's cool, I'm cool. Or you're going to look in the mirror and say, I'm going to draw a line and say no. And I'd rather choose guilt over resentment. I'd rather feel guilty that I tell this young man, hey, either you got to make some major life changes so we can trust you and your wisdom and your character, or you're going to have to go. You're going to have to go. And you can feel guilty about it. You can feel bad about it, but it doesn't mean it's the wrong thing.

Either that or you're gonna just live with this behavior over and over and over and over and over again. And by the way, the behavior I'm talking about is not about him having sex with his brother and his brother's wife. That's disturbing in its own little world. I'm saying behavior, things that violate your moral compass and violate your values.

You're gonna have to at some point say, this is the line I draw. And you You're gonna have to at some point say, this is the line I draw. And you might not be able to get rid of them, but you might say, I'm gonna choose to walk. Thank you very much. It's a choice you gotta make. And I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep.

And I would stop calling my mom and I would get one or two close friends of mine who around my age, maybe a little bit older, with some wisdom and sit down and say, okay, I got some hard decisions to make. Here's what comes next. We'll be right back. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving and life change and job change, and you've got a tornado of anxiety fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make.

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mortgages for decades and their home buyer edge program will help you skip a bunch of the stress. Here's how it works. Apply to become a Churchill certified home buyer and cap your interest rate for 90 days. Then you'll get a $5,000 seller guarantee to help your offer stand out. So go ahead, take a deep breath because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillmortgage.com slash D'Loni and get the home buyer edge today. All right, we are back. Let's go out to Alex in Dallas, Texas. What's up, Alex? Hey, Dr. John. How are you doing today? I'm good, my brother. How are you? Oh, I'm beyond blessed. I am beyond

blessed. How's the fine state of Texas there? I hear it's like the surface of the sun these days. It's hot, it's dry, and I lose cell phone signal about every hour, so we're still working on those 5G towers. Y'all should secede.

Y'all should just call it, get rid of the federal government. Do it on your own. Oh, man. No comment on that. Remember the Alamo. All right, so what's up, man? So I wrote all this down

so that way I can stay on my script and not ramble. So I'll give you a short background and then my main question. Okay, cool. My ex-wife and I divorced back in December after being together for 10 years, five of those years being married. We have no children. Here's my main question. How can I best continue to move forward with my life owning and being proud of my marriage and my divorce, which I do not regret one second of, but also not let it define who I am as a person in my professional, social, and spiritual

life. Oh, number one, you're still grieving the loss of this marriage, huh? Yes, I am. Yeah. How or why did it end? There were, she had, you know, her faults, I had my faults. I'm not going to lie and say that I was the perfect husband by any means. She fell out of love with me.

Okay. She, I caught her seeing another guy. Okay. Um, the issues that I have to realize for myself was I put her as the center of my world. Uh, my happiness relied on her. Uh,

she wasn't happy. I wasn't happy. And I know I put, I know I put a lot of stress on her because of that. Okay. And, um, you know, it's, it's very similar to your book. Um stress on her because of that. Okay. And, um, you know,

it's, it's very similar to your book. Um, I have to own that. Yeah. And, um, I have to move forward with that understanding that I could have been better.

Okay. Um, you could have been better and, um, she could have made different choices too. Yes. Is that fair? Yeah.

Okay. Um, so the fair? Yeah. Okay. So the technical word is love addiction, where we put another person at the center of our world, right? As this anchor that they're going to complete us. All right. The old Tom Cruise thing. I wrote about that a little bit in that book. And the super technical is codependent, right?

You've heard that phrase, I'm sure. Here's a couple of things just to think through. One is most of us have a picture in our heads, even though it's common, of a divorced person. And then we look in the mirror and those two pictures don't align, right? It's hard to see yourself as somebody who's been divorced. And in our culture, we turn everything into an identity. So the words are, you're a divorcee, right? Or is that the right way to say it? Like,

you're divorced. That's your new label. That's your new label. That's your new identity. Yeah. Instead of somebody who was married to somebody, wasn't perfect, and that person cheated on me, violated our marriage covenant. And now I'm, I had gone all in on somebody. And for a love addict, for someone who's codependent, you went all in, all in, all in. You not only put all the cards the dealer gave you, you had some other cards underneath in your back pocket that you played too, right?

You played every card. Every, every, I had to steal cards if that's what it does. That's right. You put every card on the table and including other people's cards, that's a great way to put it. And you still lost a hand.

And there's a deflating, right? Where it's just, ugh. i think you at some point you i had this thought the other day um somebody was on an airplane and they had a little kid a really small kid like a three two or three year old the cutest little girl and she was being silly and goofy and also a little bit grumpy. The flight was long. And this person started swearing, started cursing to the level that I haven't felt like this in probably a decade to where I've got just mechanisms that are, I'm going to end up in a fistfight. And I could feel my body heading in a direction that I was like, oh man, this is old John.

I don't know this guy. And I had a thought in that airplane that the newspaper would read, you know, 40 year old male. And I thought, I don't see myself as that, as that black and white label, but that's what I, you know, that's the truth. That's reality. I got to own it, like you said.

And then the next statement is, so then what? So then what am I going to do? So I chose obviously not to get into fistfight on an airplane, but you've got to just say, okay, this is the way this is, and then my question's going to be, what am I going to do next, right? Can I ask you a hard question?

Yeah, of course. You haven't let her go yet. Have you? I think I'm still holding on to what we used to have, but I understand and my heart doesn't want what we had. If that makes sense. Like I'm, I'm holding on to what we had, if that makes sense. It's like I'm holding on to what we had early, but we just drifted over the last several years. Our goals changed. Things we wanted changed. We still cared about each other. I still care about her, but not anywhere what I used to.

Have you ever met with someone who really struggles with heroin or cocaine or even meth? Do you have any friends? Okay. One of the terms they use is chasing the ghost.

The first time you use folks who become long-term addicts, almost universally I've heard say, oh, I knew. I knew that first time. Whoa, this is gonna be a part of my life. And you try to get high again and again and again,

chasing that first or second experience and you can never catch it. So they call it chasing ghosts, right? And you end up doing things that you know are killing you in service of chasing that thing. And if you are a true love addict, you can tell me intellectually, I know that wasn't good for me.

I've never met somebody who struggles with meth, who's like, no, this is helping me out. I've never met somebody who struggles with meth who's like, no, this is helping me out. I've never heard that. I've never met somebody, spent time with someone who's doing heroin who says, no, this is actually pretty good for me. So you can intellectually know this isn't good for me. I don't want this. I'm moving on. But your body can still be very much addicted to that person who looked

at you at the wedding ceremony and said, I'm all in on you too. There's something really intoxicating about that, right? Yeah. And so at some point you're going to have to, I wish I had different language here. You're going to have to detox from that person. How often do y'all communicate um once every month and it's a text message or two about some stuff we're still working on settling dividing um but really it's not that often in fact we we don't even live in the same part of the country. She lives completely across the country. So physically seeing her obviously is not even a thought. But no, it's really not that often. It kind of is a thought, isn't it?

It hasn't been in a while. And I feel like I'm being honest when I say that. That's cool. It hasn't been in a while. And I feel like I'm being honest when I say that because there was a lot. The last time I saw her would have been in January, and it was very hard. But actually, it felt like it was a good way to close the door. Cool. Okay. So it was the closure that I needed to move on. Obviously, that doesn't make the situation any easier.

Right. When you're with somebody for a decade, but... Hey, brother, she was the air you breathe. She was the thoughts. She was, in the terms that I put it in, was she wasn't the sun to my universe, but she was one of my planets. Ah. Okay.

If that makes sense there, there was, there was a lot of important things in my life and you know, she was one of the top important things in my life. And maybe at times she did become the sun and that's where I have to look at myself and say, I, I definitely could have done that better. So give me one or two things that you'll do differently next time. Put my needs first. What does that mean? Speak up if there's,

speak up if I'm not okay, instead of consistently trying to give parts of myself to a point to where I'm not in an okay place. And then I can't be everything that I am in a relationship or friendship for that matter, because I'm too worried about how's the other person feeling? Is the other person happy? Am I giving my all so that way that they will love me? Which I see now that that's completely not true. I want to challenge you, okay? The things you just laid out are all about performance.

Someone who loves you is going to need you to do some things when it comes to meeting their needs, right? But love starts with you looking in the mirror and saying, I'm worth being loved, man. And you don't believe that. We're going to need a whole other call for that. That's right. I know. I know.

But listen, anytime somebody answers the way you just did, my heart breaks for you. Because somebody should have told you a long, long time ago that you've got value. Because the question underneath the question I just asked you is, what does that mean? And you said, well, then I'm going to let my needs be heard when I'm not okay. And I would say, well, you've got to define what not okay means, which means you've got to define what okay means, which means you've got to define,

what do I want with this one crazy little life I got? And what am I worth? What is my time worth? And here's what I'll tell you. Just to fast forward, because I know that's probably a whole other call. You're worth being loved recklessly. You're worth somebody rolling over in the middle of the night and waking you up just to kiss you want to know because you have to and you are worth a job that doesn't take your soul from you but that also isn't an addiction either because you're

probably a workaholic too if i if we want to go to another phone call is that fair yeah yeah i actually i i have a pretty decent work-life balance i will say that but I'm a busy person. I have to stay busy. There you go. All it says is this. When you can look in the mirror and say, I love that guy. Or let me say it this way. You probably talk to yourself in a way that you would never let somebody talk to a stranger in your presence. So I've been doing, John, I've been doing therapy for about two years now. Okay.

Are you working on self-talk? Yeah. Okay. I consistently, I want to go back to the person that I was when I was 10, and I just want to hold him, and I just want to hug him. Have you done that? Because I have to do it a lot. Okay. And I just... What happened to 10-year-old Alex?

10-year-old Alex was very, very publicly embarrassed because of his weight. Okay. embarrassed because of his weight by two strangers. And it started a whole, whole, um, 15, 20 years worth of very, very bad body dysmorphia, eating disorders, um, overtraining, under eating, overeating. Um, because I looked in the mirror every day and said, I hate the person that I was. There you go, man. And I'm not, and I'm very proud to say that I love myself. And that's, and that's, you know, one of the reasons why I, why I made this call is because I do want to own right. Everything that I had, I want to own that. I went through that. I want, but I don't want it to define me.

So listen, let it go. Set it down. You can't control your way through what happens next. Yeah, that's hard. It's real hard because here's why. Your solution to those mean people who embarrassed you publicly was this will never happen again. Right? And this will never happen again comes from some really firm resolve. And that resolve is really good.

And our culture celebrates that resolve it's good for you to make some major behavioral changes and to make some health changes all it's good and then it becomes pathological because the same behaviors that kept us alive when we were kids kill us when we're adults right and so uh and it melts our So, the next path through is letting it go. Have you written that 10-year-old Alex a letter? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I have.

Was that good? A good experience? Good is the wrong word. It led into a lot more than just the letter. It led into a book, per se. Oh, good. Good, good, good. I got it saved on a Word file. It's into a book per se. I got it saved on a Word file. It's about

150 pages. Good for you. Good for you. I read that a lot. Now, let's so you've been through seasons of some pretty intense exercise? Mm-hmm. Okay. So let's

take the next few steps, and this is for everybody. Listen, let's take the next few steps as though it's an exercise plan. Okay. And what we're going to, what I mean by that is you can't go just run a marathon tomorrow. And so you're gonna have to, you're gonna have to start practicing and you've seen the couch to 5K and the couch to marathon, the couch to 10K. We're going to do couch to well, okay? You've got two years of therapy. You know you've been able to identify the epicenter. And I would even tell you that in many ways, you've talked about it enough.

So here's a couple of things I'm going to give you as the path out, okay? Number one, you probably have a daily gratitude practice of some sort, but I want you to get in the habit of that. Okay. The second thing is, is I want you to implement a weekly service into your life and not a Venmoing somebody money, but find a place where you can volunteer an hour. Here's what we're doing. We're getting outside of our head and we're taking that camera that has been scanning the inside of you for a long time and we're going to point it outward. We're going to stop looking at the rear view mirror. We start looking at the windshield.

Okay? Okay. This is a practice. And so just getting out and seeing other people and helping people meet needs is an invaluable practice. Okay. There's some data that suggests it's a path out of depression. It's a path out of some of these behaviors. Are you a part of any sort of men's group?

I actually just moved to Dallas about three months ago. So I'm looking for one in person, but I am a part of a couple like virtual based. Okay. I want you to get off the computer and get with people in real life. Okay. Okay. Get with some human beings in your immediate area, and there's going to be some sort of Loveaholics Anonymous or Essay Group or whatever.

Like there's going to be some groups there that you can circle up with and just have another group of men in your life. Okay. I show up once a quarter to a group here in Nashville. All right. So to check in and to help out, but also, man, I need to show up too. The title of the book escapes me here,

but it's by Pia Melody, P-I-A-M-E-L-O-D-Y. And I think the title might be Love Addiction. I want you to pick that book up. She's the guru. Just a really powerful, powerful read. But here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna start practicing not performing. We're going to practice, I need to, whenever you hear the words, I need to, or I should,

I want you to stop and be curious about that. What do I need to do right now? What I have to do right now versus I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. Right. It's hard, man. It's hard.

So what I just, one, one last quick question. What would you, what would your advice be to me if I'm meeting somebody and build, whether that be at work or a social based event and they're asking me about myself and it's, uh,

you know, Oh, hi, my name is so-and-so and it's, you know, oh, hi, my name is so-and-so, and I'm, they ask, are you married, you got any kids? No, divorced. Or, you know, whatever the answer is. And then that's that automatic label that's all your divorce. Brother, that is your baggage.

If you meet somebody and you feel the need to explain your marital status, that's you bringing that to that conversation. If they ask you, are you married? And you go, no, not married, divorced. And they choose to create a story about you and what that word means about you. You don't want to spend time with that person. Right, exactly. Okay? So don't take that extra baggage with you.

And this is going to be something you practice. Okay? You have made the word divorce a scarlet letter. So when I went through my divorce, I was a part of some in- person, I did some virtual as well, but a lot of support groups and I ended up leaving them in about two weeks because these people were just, they were so angry. I mean, they were rightfully so. I mean, I was,

I was disappointed. I was angry, but Yeah. I mean, I was disappointed. I was angry. But, like, I still don't regret it. So, you left those groups thinking that something's wrong with you. Or you left those groups with some sort of introspection that I'm not angry like this. I don't want to be around this. But am I not doing this right? Am I not? Yeah, exactly. I felt like, well, what is wrong with me? Because they keep telling me you should be so mad. You should be so this.

No, no, no. Listen, that is love addiction. You are outsourcing your feelings to other people in the hopes that they will do it better than you can do it. And that's a person who innately does not trust themselves. And underneath that is a person who innately does not love themselves. See what I'm saying? Who cares what a group of strangers on the internet think about you? Who cares? They don't get a vote.

They don't get a vote. It's cool for them to help out And say hey here's a common experience we're having But if your body says Dude there's a bunch of angry people And yeah I'm heartbroken it was hard but it was right Right And that's the thing I'm still here

I'm still proud of myself And everything that I've done And that's where I'm like I don't'm still proud of myself. Yes. And everything that I've done. And that's where I'm like, I don't need this. Then don't. Yeah, then walk away. You're there. You just got to take that last step.

Hold your head up high. You're Alex from freaking Dallas, Texas. Hold your head up high. Lone Star State. Hey, hold your head up high Okay You went through something hard You had to make some hard decisions You had to look in the mirror

You've done two years of hard therapy You have some early traumas That you've been wrestling with You've done a ton of heavy, heavy lifting And it's kind of like this You know when you You probably experienced this, right? When you were really focused on weight loss and I'm going to be thin,

you'd run into people that hadn't seen you in a while. And they were like, whoa, you look great. And you didn't see it like that because you'd just seen it little bits and pieces every day over the course of one year, two years, 10 years, however long. That's you right now. So in a weightlifting metaphor, you have been lifting in a dim lit Rocky IV style gym for the last couple of years. Heavy lifting, hard.

And then you just came out in the light and you don't realize how big you've gotten, how muscular you've gotten, how strong you've gotten, how good you look. And you're going to go back to the same people who have the same labels as you and they haven't put the work in you've put in. Or they're at the very beginning of their journey.

They're just heading into that gym. That's great. That's good. That's just not where you are right now. And so those are people we're going to love. We're going to walk alongside them if they invite us as mentors and friends. But we're not going to work out with them.

They can't lift our weight. They can't even spot us. We're going to surround ourselves with real people in the world that are going to do life with us. And dude, you have to decide to put that label down. It is. It just is. So I'm going to hold my head up high when I meet people. Yeah, I'm divorced. If you wanna dig into it more, my wife cheated on me and I'm a person of character and standards and I believe that my covenant stands for something. And my wife violated covenant, I love her, love her, good friend, good human, but violated our covenant.

And so I'm not gonna remain there. They wanna get into it,. And so I'm not going to remain there. They want to get into it, right? But they're not going to. That's you bringing your baggage to that label. Set it down, man. I'm really, really proud of the work you've done, Alex. It's come a long, long way. Now it's time to enact it. Now it's time to start taking those little baby steps towards a new marathon, a whole new way of being alive. And I start to look in the mirror and say, I'm Alex and I've got value. I'm worth being loved. Starting with you, my brother. I'm proud of you. We'll be right back. All right, we are back. Let's go to Lauren in Redding, California. What's up, Lauren? Hey, how are you doing?

We are rocking on to the break of dawn. What are you doing? I was hoping you'd say that. I wanted to make a joke about it, but you beat me to it. Okay. Hey, hold on. I got to say, my sister is actually the one who invented that. And I guess she was on the internet or something. And she texted me the other day out of the blue and was like,

hey, you need to cite me when you say that. So this is me citing her. So there we go, Lauren. All right, so what's up? Okay, so I'm a little nervous, but I try to- I'm real nervous, really nervous. Yeah, I know. You always tell people that.

That's why I'm calming down here. Okay, go. So I'm a teacher. I'm a mom. I'm actually an adjunct professor. And so children are kind of like my expertise and I'm sitting here as a parent and my son is five and I don't know how to navigate this loss related to fire that we've been having. Um, so his, his childcare burned down two weeks ago. I also have a two year old.

Yeah. And so I'm really curious, um take on navigating that discussion would be with both of them in an age-appropriate way. That's a great question. I was in—in fact, Kelly and I were in San Jose yesterday, two days ago. And it was both so beautiful. And the fire threats everywhere. It was just— it was astounding. It was wild, right? I'm so sorry y'all are going through that.

Man, what a mess that is. Here's the best I've found working with this sort of loss and ultimately trauma with a five-year-old, okay? Very different than with a two-year-old. A couple of rules of thumb that I follow, and this is stuff that I do in my own home, by the way. Okay. So it's not just like bullet points out of a textbook. One is it's really important for your kids to see you be sad too. And we often think that we have to be strong for them and an oak for them. And that is true. We do have to get up and go to work.

We do have to provide food. We do have to do those adult things. But when we don't show our kids that we're sad too, that we're scared too, that we're heartbroken too, it makes them feel nuts. Like mommy's really strong right now and she doesn't seem to be upset about this. I must be crazy or I must be weak or I must be weak or I must be dysfunctional. I need to figure out how I can not be sad about hard things so I can be like her or like daddy. And so it's say, no, mom's really, really sad. One thing I would do with a five-year-old is I would get some paper out and some matte pencils and I'd go get some nice ones because we're doing this not therapeutically, but we're doing this for a reason. I'd get some paper out and some map pencils. And I'd go get some nice ones because we're doing this not therapeutically,

but we're doing this for a reason. I'd get some nice markers or some nice pencils and we would draw a picture. Let's draw a picture of a scary fire. Like let's draw it and talk about it. And not talking about it doesn't make it go away. Talking about it shines light on it. And here's an important second part of that.

I would also have your five-year-old. Is five-year-old little girl, little boy? He's a boy. And the caveat here, I guess, where I struggle a little bit is that he's language delayed as well. Okay. And so his understanding of really complex topics is, it's a little harder for him to understand. Right. That's where art is so important.

Art in relationship. Okay. And you see how drawing a picture together is important. And if mommy draws it too, then we're doing this together and we can talk about it. He may not be able to verbalize it, but he'll be able to feel you. And here's the important part. When you draw this, you'll have emotions also. Most of the time when somebody calls me and says, how do I tell my five-year-old something? They're also wondering how they tell themselves something. Yeah, that's what I've been discussing with. Like I reached out to some people here in

my area just because I waited a long time to tell him because the thought of it, you know, left me in tears. And I, I, there's like multiple layers there. I mean, this is the place where there's a lot to grieve. This is the place where he learned how to talk. And this is like a legendary childcare. It's an example for all of the providers out there. And then the people that own it are just fabulous, loving, wonderful people. Like it's my kid's second home. Or it was. I'm seeing even that I have to acknowledge that it's, yeah.

So no, what you're saying makes a lot of sense. And that was the thing I think I was most afraid of was falling apart in front of my kids. I have, I think it's healthy for them. Falling apart is different. Like you can't fall apart and then go stay in bed for two weeks and say, y'all just fit in for yourselves, right? But letting them see you cry is important. But there's a really important second half to this.

So we're going to acknowledge the fears and we're going to talk about them. I would really love it if you and this five-year-old could do something like bake cookies together. And you could also show him fire on the stove. And this fire is going to help make these cookies that we're going to take to Mr. and Mrs. Smith who lost their business. And so here's what we're getting there. We are teaching at a very young age that there's a lot of scary, awful things in the world. It just is. And the way through fear and the way through anxiety, they have counter reinforcement measures. So the more we run from it, the tighter they spin and the faster they go. The louder those alarms get, the further away we try to get from them. And so I'm going to lean into that fear.

So fire took something away. Fire also gives us something really cool. And then underneath all of that is one of the paths out is service. Where do I take that energy that's just balled up in me? I can Netflix it away. I can numb it away. I can have all sorts of addictive ways to wallpaper over it, or I can go serve.

And so you can knock out a few things in one fell swoop there. We can have some time talking about fire. And even if he drew a picture that he's gonna get put in a card, right? Now I'm not suggesting he draw a building with a fire flames on it, something like that. Don't crystallize that image of his building. But y'all can draw fire and talk about that scary. And then you can go show him, look at this, look how cool this fire is when it's under control and it gives us something so good.

And so we're going to lean into it, right? Here's another thing. There's a lot of fires in the news and things like that, which is important to keep up with. We all have to be having these conversations. My home state of Texas has been on fire all summer. There comes a point though that a five-year-old and even you bathing in the data on a daily basis is counterproductive. It's not good for you. Yeah. With the first fire that we

had the car fire up here and it was like, you know, within a mile of my house. And so we had to evacuate and he was only a year old. And then daddy was a first responder and had to leave. So we were separated from daddy. And I mean, then the second one was right by his school. So I'm a teacher there. I had to evacuate my class. Yeah. So, so.

I had to go home. So there's been a lot. He's definitely showing some anxiety around fires. Here's, here's the main, the main avenue of that. Ugh. I'm, I'm. I'm taking, like, close your eyes real quick and picture me and you

just sitting down like at a table, okay? With me with a smile on my face. Okay, got it? I'm saying this and I absolutely 100% know I'm wading into waters that as a mom is not smart, okay? But I want to be honest with you, okay?

Okay. Most of the fire-related fear that a five-year-old is going to have is going to be absorbed from their caregivers. For sure, yeah. And so that doesn't mean you have to try to hide your anxiety and your stress and your fear and your frustration with fires. That means that you've got to make sure you've got people you're talking to. Obviously, your five-year-old can't be your therapist. You've got to have people that you talk to and you communicate with and you grieve with and you get this stuff out. But your kids are going to pick up that tension from

you. Okay. Um, and so letting them know, like, no, I've got a process for it too. Yeah. I was really scared and sad. Mom's very, very sad that the school went away. Very, very sad. Um, let's draw a picture of fire. Fire can be scary, right? Um, fire can also be really good. You want to do something neat with fire? Yeah. And now we're going to do something cool and we're going to make cookies for people. And that's just one little thing. You're a teacher. You're way more creative than I am would be on something like that. The two-year-old is not going to have a clue of even what day it is.

You know what I mean? But your two-year-old is going to absorb you. Yeah. Two-year-old is going to absorb dad. Sorry, I interrupt a lot. No, that's okay. That's okay. No, my two-year-olds gonna absorb dad sorry i interrupt a lot no that's okay no my two-year-old um we actually i only told my five-year-old i wasn't quite ready but i i told him after the fact because i was taking my two-year-old to visit a new facility because i have to go back to work soon and we got really lucky and found a place near our home. And so we went over there,

but I told her this was going to be her new school and she stomped us, but still big old fit. Well, and so that fit is, this is going to sound bananas. Let her have that fit. I did. Yeah, I did. Yeah. She's just sad. She said, and maybe she writes a letter to the building.

Let's write it like how much we're going to miss you or whatever. But yeah, she's just sad she said and maybe she writes a letter to the building let's write like how much we're gonna miss you whatever but yeah like she's gonna be overwhelmed because that place was safe and for you that's where she learned to talk but for her that's where her body felt safe that she could do some of these things that the other kids could do you know i'm saying like this is an anchor point this is a like a environment that was safe. That's going to be hard. I'm sorry y'all going through this. Thank you. But I'll tell you this, I'm really glad that

she's got a conscientious mom and dad like y'all or he does to walk through them with this. Yeah. And I'm hoping this call will give other, I mean, because there's multiple parents. People had their kids there that day when it happened and they barely got out in time. So I hope it'll help more parents out there.

The big thing with walking kids through scary situations is not ignoring it. And our tendency is to let's not talk about it. I don't want to bring it up. I don't want to cause any more problems. And that buries it. I don't want to bring it up. I don't want to cause any more problems and that buries it. Yeah. And art and relationship have just an unbelievable way of healing

and bringing people together. And it's a way I can sit by you, but I don't have to make eye contact with you. And sometimes I'll draw something that brings a tear to my eye that my kid can see or we'll watch a movie together. And then we're going to go

do something constructive with that. But yes, thank you. Your call is going to help folks who are sitting there, whether it's a kid who's experiencing divorce for the first time or daddy passed away or school burned down or whatever's going on in our lives. Engaging our kids, engaging our kids, whether it's picking up some toys and playing,

taking them to a counselor or sitting down and coloring pictures and then teaching them how to serve is such a gift to them. And it's a gift to you. Make sure you're grieving this too. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up?

Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, I want to thank Lauren for that last call.

I'm really grateful for that. People working through hard stuff with their kids. That's important. In honor of, I have a friend named Preston who works here with me. Brilliant guy. One of the craziest third eye blind fans you'll ever meet. I'm pretty sure he has a third eye blind tattoo like up and down his arm. He wears suits a lot.

He wears shirts and ties and so you don't see it all the time, but one of the biggest fans. And so this is just my way of honoring Preston with his favorite third eye blind song. By the way, can't stand him. Invited him to the show last night, got some tickets, and his quote was, I'd rather eat a urinal cake. So great. So in honor of Preston, his favorite song, Jumper, and it goes like this. I wish you would step back from the ledge, my friend. You could cut ties with all the lies that you've been living in.

And if you don't want to see me again, I understand. The angry boy, a bit too insane, icing over a secret pain. You know you don't belong and you're the first to fight and you're way too loud. You got the flash of light on a burial shroud. I know something's wrong.

And everyone I know has got a reason to say, put the past away. But I wish you would step back from the ledge, my friend. I wish you would step back. Preston, I'm glad we're best friends. See you soon.