The Dr. John Delony Show - My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

On today’s episode, we hear about: ·      A husband wondering how to address his wife’s hurtful behavior ·      A woman seeking advice on how to create boundaries with a friend · ��    A mom struggling with thoughts that keep her up at night Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test  📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future  ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭 John's Free Guided Meditation  🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch   Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at BON CHARGE. 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth.  🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi.  💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne.  🏋️ Go to trainwell to get started!   Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights   🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I've recently stumbled across some messages where my wife has been talking to some co-workers of hers and how she had lots of love in college, you know, kind of glorifying the glory days, so to speak, and they don't need to be talking about that stuff. Okay, that's it right there. That's the issue What in the world is going on this is John with the dr. John Delaney show I'm so so grateful that you're with us Wherever you happen to be. I hope you're doing well. Hope life's going. Okay, and I hope you are making good choices I'm looking at a couple of folks behind the glass that don't make good choices

And that's how we ended up on this show. I know somewhere your careers took a tragic turn, but for everybody listening I'm glad y'all are here It's good to talk to you all and good to be with you if you want to be on the show real people going through Real challenges mental and emotional health your relationships whatever you got going on Dealing with grief dealing with I hope things I wish were going to be a certain way, they're not anymore. Whatever you got going on, I'll sit with you. 1-844-693-3291. You can leave a message and we'll holler back or I'll let you, or you can go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K.

All right, let's go out to Auburn, Alabama and talk to Jesse. Hey Jesse, what's up? Hey Dr. John. What's up, man? Hey, man I'm just calling to see if you can help me Work through something I've been married for about 20 years and Had what I thought was a great relationship and hopefully still do

what happened recent I Recently stumbled across some messages what I thought was a great relationship and hopefully still do. What happened? I recently stumbled across some messages where my wife has been talking to some co-workers of hers, they're close friends, co-workers. They do go on work retreats together and spend a little time together. And I have found about some, stumbled across some threads where she had been referencing some conversations she had with them about some previous partners she had had back in college and sort of talk about them kind of braggingly. So, um, you know, kind of glorifying the glory days, so to speak. And, and it really, uh, really hit me pretty hard. Um, and I am just trying to figure out how to, how to handle this information.

So I hear the hurt in your voice, okay, let me ask you a few questions Mm-hmm So you say the glory days did your wife have multiple sexual partners back in college That's another big difference between the two of us. Hold on, let me just answer that question. Did she have multiple partners back in college? She did. Okay, she did. Yeah. And so y'all have been married 20 years and you found some text messages that she was texting some co-workers, male or female co-workers. It's actually a group account, social media that she has where there's a little clique of four of them.

Okay. Two women and a man. Okay. So when she was talking about the quote unquote glory days. Give me some examples. She would say things like, you know, in the context she'd be talking about, you know, former relationships and how she had lots of love in college. That was a quote in how the ages 19 to 23 were like heaven, or she hopes that's what heaven's like. And she would reference a few of the men and about the story that accompanied that and when they

talked about it at the last trip they were on. Nat. The story about, so she went into detail about having sex with one of these dudes or a couple of these dudes and what she liked about it, didn't like about it and all that? Fortunately not. Not a lot of detail, but I'm just seeing the tip of the iceberg. I'm just seeing the reference on when this story was associated with this person or that person. How do you know it's the tip of the iceberg. Well, the, the, what I stumbled upon was her text threads where she referenced those stories

where when they were together, you know, she talked about this guy and that's when, you know, we were at this resort when I was telling y'all about this guy and that's, those are the threads that I'm seeing. So I'm now sort of discovering that she's talked about these former sexcapades, that she's, you know, when they're together and then while they're chatting on the text thread, the social media text threads, you know, when they're talking, you know, referencing more about it and making more jokes or just whatever she's just talked about. I just can't believe she said these things. So is her past a surprise to you?

No. Okay. That's kind of my twofold question is obviously finding out that she is, you know, when I married her 20 years ago, you know, I put her past behind me and it took me some time to get over that, but I did and I don't want to shame her about her past. You know, we, you know, we're moving forward and I thought we were moving forward and now she's got this new group of work friends she's been with the last six or eight years, people she didn't know in college and they don't need to be talking about that stuff.

Okay, that's it right there. That's the issue. Yeah, she's brought her past into our marriage and into our current life. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You and her brought her past into your marriage. You signed up for it. Yeah. Right? And I think in your mind, putting it behind us means

we're gonna pretend this never happened. Yeah. And that's, that is like, it's, that's not a reality. Like it did happen. All of it happened. And now that she's had 20 years with somebody who's safe and stable and predictable, she can look back on some of the stuff that happened

and be like, yeah, that was actually a good time. It was stupid and we're young and dumb and whatever. But I'm just thinking of, I don't know, every time I get with old friends, we tell old stories. But again, to your point, they were there, right? Did y'all have an agreement that we're not talking about this? This is, I guess. No, no, we didn't have an agreement.

When we did get together and I did find out her past, it was hard for me to accept. But bro, that was 20 years ago. It's like you're finding out today. Where is that coming from? It's been something that's been hard for me to deal with ever since. Why? I mean, I actually saved myself for marriage and she didn't.

Okay. Okay, let's pause right there. You had a value and you held on to that value. She did not have that value She didn't hang on to that value Then y'all found each other and you decided to have new values together and then create a life together which you have for two decades That's right so Regardless of her past you going back and trying to retroactively suggest that you're

somehow better than she was, like, it's an unfair standard because y'all didn't agree on something that then you both went and one of you did, you kept with the agreement, one of you violated the agreement. I guess my question is for you like these things happened Y'all met you found love you decided to build a life together We'll get to the appropriate sharing or inappropriate sharing we'll get there But I Agree with everything you're saying and I knew about these relationships going into it and I've tried my best not to shame her and I don't think I have.

And I have put all this in my past, excuse me, but what's just bothering me so much now is that she's brought it up to these friends and not so much as in a, you know, these types of things happened and that, you know, this is, you know, my life, but just in such a, in such a glorified way that she's just bragging about, you know, these things that she's done and sharing it with these individuals that weren't there. And it's just, it's just rocked me. And I don't know how to handle it. I don't know if I'm just completely insecure and that's something I've got to deal with

on my own or should I talk to her more about it or should I just move on? I don't even know what to do next. It sounds like there's multiple things going on here. I think that you stop me at any time and tell me that I'm wrong. I'm out to lunch. But you say you quote unquote put these in your past. You absolutely have not. They haunt you. You're right. Even calling them sexcapades. Like you've got a picture and a story in your head of what happened. Do you know what happened back in college or is it all just rumor

and conjecture and story? Um, she told me what I believe to be a semi watered down version of a handful of people, I don't know a number and I don't know names and I can't look these people up on social media, things that I don't want to do and haven't tried. Um, and in the text thread that I found from her recently, I found out more information that about these, about her past that I didn't know to that detail or level of interest.

Have you ever asked? to that detail or level of interest. Have you ever asked? No. Okay. So number one, you want to pretend this never happened and you've pretended that for 20 years. Yes. And you can say, I don't want to know a number.

I don't want to know names. I don't know. I don't want to know dates. I don't want to know. And I know people like that cool But that's a choice you're making to not be invested and when you find out a piece of that information To then say well, I didn't even know that happened well you never asked Right

And yes, I totally get, like, there are parts of her story that you want to remain private. But it sounds like, and again, tell me if I'm wrong, brother, it sounds like you're embarrassed that other people might find out that the woman you married had consensual sex with multiple people back in college. Yes, that is completely right. you married had consensual sex with multiple people back in college? Yes that is completely right. Okay. That's a tough pill to swallow man.

Yeah I don't know how to handle it. So until you can move past this idea that you're better than her, and you can move past this idea that somehow she is tainted and something's gross and wrong about her, you're always going to have shadows in your marriage, my brother. Yeah. You haven't made peace with this. And I'll say make peace like wish it never happened, right? I don't know anybody who wishes their partner had had a whole bunch of previous people before them, right? I get that But you're choosing to pick and choose parts of her that you deem acceptable

choosing to pick and choose parts of her that you deem acceptable, which tells her, hey, part of you is not welcome in this house, part of your story is not welcome here, I don't want to hear it, I don't want to see about it, we're going to pretend it never happened and we're going to go on and pretend with a charade that we have this family. Do you hear what I'm saying? I hear you. I've never had anybody say it to me before. And again, I've never really talked to anybody about this before. That's fair and I appreciate it.

That's why I say I can hear it on you how bad the hurt is, but I don't know that it's hurt as much as you're embarrassed that somebody's gonna find out that somebody else slept with your wife back in college. 20 years ago. What am I supposed to do? Mike, I would sit down with my wife and say, for 20 years I've walked around with a story

that I'm somehow better than you and I'm not, and I'm so sorry that I put that on you. I didn't even think that I thought that until you're saying those words out loud. I know. That's okay. And then the next level is it makes me super uncomfortable for you to be out talking about these things from your past as though they were wonderful and exciting and great. Makes me feel less than makes me feel small. That the last 20 years weren't as fun or exciting or whatever.

Makes me feel less than. I don't know how much I don't know how much of what you think she was telling them how great it was and all these fun sexcapades. Or if she was just telling a story, like one person says, oh yeah, one time in college, I did this. And she's like, oh God, one time in college, I did this. And it may not be as sensational or wild

as you are in your head or telling yourself that it was. Maybe it actually was, maybe it actually was. But then all of this starts with I statements I married you knowing this about you and I loved you I still love you and man I've been walking around thinking I somehow was better than you because at 18, 19 and 20, I made different choices in you. And I'm uncomfortable when you roll out the laundry list to some people that I don't even know that are somewhat strangers to me because it makes me, I feel less than. Somehow I haven't been fun.

I haven't been fun. I haven't been exciting that your life you have now wasn't as great as the wild adventurous life you had when you were 20 21 22. And she might look at you and say, you're right, dude, it's just been downhill for 20 years. And she might look at you and say, you're right dude, it's just been downhill for 20 years. I doubt it though. She's probably gonna say, this is the life I dreamed of and I love having doing life with you and you knew this about me.

And yes, I got caught up with some friends telling stories, blowing things out of proportion, exaggerating, you know, like, oh, you know what I mean? Right. And hopefully she would say, I realized that me talking about that impacts us and I won't do that That would be my hope that sounds like the kind of woman she is my wrong She's a wonderful woman I've always been insecure about this.

There it is right there. I mean, I really thought I had put it behind me though. I know. I think my guts, A, mate, I get it. Your wife told some stuff that you thought we weren't talking about. Yeah. And I always caution people to be careful when they tell somebody else you they can't tell their story right, okay, but I think that I don't know how to move forward is

You are finding out you're someone that you don't recognize Because you thought you were in a different place and That's where anytime I find myself, oh, I thought I was super in self control, like I had great self control here and something happens and I snap or I get mad or I get angry, whatever. I need to go say, dude, I'm so sorry. I thought I was in a different place. I'm not. And that's what I say. Like I think this is one of those moments where you go and say, I'm so sorry for 20 years, I didn't realize this, I thought I was better than you. I've been pretending that a chunk of you didn't exist.

And then you get to decide, I want to hear some of these stories. Tell me about them. We've been together 20 years, we've made humans together, I can hear the stories. Or you can say, I don't want to hear the details. I don't need that in my head. I don't want to picture you with other, I don't want that. I don't want that. But it sounds to me like the, like again, I don't want to reiterate myself over and

over, but it sounds like the problem, the challenge, the stuck you feel is that, oh my gosh, I didn't think it, I didn't think it was gonna, I thought I was past it. You, my friend, are not. You're still right back where you were. So as much as you feel comfortable, it's put on the table. And every conversation starts with an I statement.

I think your marriage is gonna be good, man. I think it's gonna be good. But I think you got some work to do. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. All right, good folks, listen. The modern world exposes us to things that were unheard of until just a few decades ago. And I don't mean the endless streams of lame videos or the rise of AI influencers.

I'm talking about screens in our homes and offices, fluorescent lights, EMFs. These things can affect our mood, our sleep, our anxiety and more. And that's why I'm so excited to partner with Bond Charge, a world leader in red light therapy and EMF blocking gear. I use Bond Charge products all the time, literally every single day, and I love them. And here's why I think you're going to love them too. Studies show red light therapy can help boost your mood, reduce stress, and help with sleep. Red light therapy can help your recovery from aches and pains, transform your skin, and

even help with cellulite and stretch marks. My red light therapy panels, my infrared sauna blanket, the EMF mat, and more have become a cornerstone of my health and wellness routine. Like I said, I use them every day. And you can check out BondCharge's other amazing products like blue light glasses, EMF protection products, infrared sauna blankets, and 100% blackout sleep masks. Go to BondCharge.com slash Dolony and use coupon code Dolony to save 15%. D'Loni and use coupon code D'Loni to save 15%. That's B-O-N-C-H-A-R-G-E bondcharge.com slash D'Loni. Use coupon code D'Loni to save 15% off your entire order.

All right, let's be honest. There's no such thing as mental health separate from physical health, separate from emotional health, separate from, listen, it's all just health. It all works together and everything's connected. It's impossible to be whole in one area and struggling in another. So if you're ready to make positive physical changes

that can help restore some balance to your whole self, check out Trainwell. Trainwell offers tailored workouts with step-by-step guidance from real people, meaning it's not just an app and it's not just a personal trainer, it's the best of both. To get started, you just answer a few questions about your fitness journey, where you happen to be, hop on a chat with an expert trainer to discuss your goals

and make a personalized plan, and then it's time for you to get to work. As you complete workouts, your trainer will keep tweaking them to help you get stronger and better. I love the workouts, my wife loves them, and we both love how they adapt to my crazy travel schedule too. TrainWell takes away our excuses and makes working out easy,

and they can do it for you. If you're ready to start taking control of your health, take the quiz to find your perfect trainer at trainwell.net slash deloney today. They still have a special offer just for my audience. $69 a month when you lock in your plan. That's almost 50% off their regular monthly rate plus 14 days of free training. Go to trainwell.net slash deloney.

That's T-R-A-I-N-W-E-L-L, trainwell.net slash deloney. Check it out. Let's go out to Los Angeles, California and talk to Nikki, not Nikki Six, but just regular Nikki. What's up, Nikki? Hi, John. How's it going? It's going good, just happy to be here.

Excellent, I'm glad you're here. What's up? Okay, so here's my question. How do I support my alcoholic best friend while maintaining healthy boundaries? I don't know. Tell me more. Tell me more. Okay. So this is one of my very best friends of about 25 years. We've been friends since we were about 13 and she's like sister to me. She was a big part of my life growing up and into adulthood. Um, except she lives on the other side of the country.

Um, I live close to where we grew up, but we've always been really good at, uh, staying connected and she does visit California often. Cause her family is here too. Um, she is single. She doesn't have any kids. She owns a house, um, by herself. She's really dedicated to her work, that's why she lives there.

But essentially she's there alone. And so 25 years of friendship, there's obviously a lot of history there and there were many incidents over the years kind of leading up to where we're at today. But the point of this call is that about nine months ago, she confessed to me that she is an alcoholic and that she's been lying to everyone around her for years.

And so in this confession, I learned that the extent of that addiction is really bad. And so I did anything I could from afar to be as best of a friend of as I could, and just encouraged her to take steps in the right direction. Also worth noting that I believe I am kind of her main source of emotional support and the only person she has talked to about this. And on top of that, she literally asked me to just kind of keep this a secret from everyone

who basically is on the other side of this double life that she's been living. Who would be on the other side? She's not married, she doesn't have kids. Her family, her job, our friends, even my family, like my husband, she just doesn't want me talking about it to anybody and kind of also expects me to go out of my way

to cover it up with any mutual contacts we have, which I'm pretty close with her family. We have a lot of the same best friends, all of that kind of stuff. Do you see this escalating in a certain trend direction? Is it getting worse? So since all of that, it's been just a mess. It kind of turned into this draining cycle that was becoming a lot for me to handle and just be a part of on my own.

So I did make the decision a few months ago to kind of distance myself from all of it and created some boundaries for myself. Which in a nutshell was basically that she will only have access to me in the way that she's used to, if she can commit to pursuing long-term sobriety. And at the time she didn't want that. She wasn't ready for it.

So I took a step back. I still don't know if it was the right thing to do or not. But fast forward to today to kind of catch you up to speed. She now tells me that she hasn't had a drink in about two months. She says now she's going to AA on a weekly basis and that her mindset in general is just kind of shifting and she is starting to understand now that she does need

long-term sobriety from alcohol. So basically telling me all the things that we wanna hear and I hope that's all true. My main issue, I suppose, is whether I should even be believing her and letting my walls down again. And even if she is telling the truth and she is making that progress, I'm so happy, but there are still just some views for me

that haven't really changed and has just led me to still feel kind of conflicted and resentful. What does that mean? Some views that haven't changed? Yeah, so I think it is, you know, the fact that she still isn't being fully honest with the people around her and wants me to kind of cover this up for her when she, when we are together,

and she's still refusing to tell anyone else or admit to anyone else about her alcoholism and wants me to keep it a secret and uses me as kind of like excuses around things. Give me an example of that. Yeah. So say when she is in town, visiting family in California, and she's going to an AA meeting,

she tells them that she's, you know, she's going to, to see me or make plans with me. Or if she's bringing in non-alcoholic products, she says they're mine. So it's not even the fact that she, how bad her alcoholism is, it's even that she's in recovery. She doesn't want anybody to know about.

Is her family behind closed doors, people who could metabolize the fact that she's in recovery? people who could metabolize the fact that she's in recovery? I'm, I, so her, she has a interesting kind of relationship with her family. She only recently is rebuilding a relationship with them after being kind of estranged for the last couple years as a result of her alcohol use. So, it wouldn't be a surprise, but I think it would strain things with them. Okay.

So tell me if I'm out to lunch here, here's what I'm picking up. Number one, you've been super close, totally vulnerable, 100% open to a person for a quarter century, and you found out that they kept a huge secret from you for a long time and you're really hurt by that. A hundred percent true. Okay.

I wrestle with the disease. That's a whole other conversation. But I'll just use this language. Your friend's been sick for a long, long, long time. And a function of the sickness is secrecy as a matter of survival. Yeah. And so you can, you can choose to say you lied to me for 25 years or 23 years. Or you can say after 23 years, I'm so deep in my bones, grateful that you found me the only safe person you could tell. Because as well as you know her I can almost guarantee you you don't know the ins and outs of what she grew up with in her

house. Yeah I mean I know some of it which is bad enough. Okay so the second part of that is anytime somebody's in recovery, recovery 101 is you got to be honest with people. But you got to be honest with people who can accept your honesty. And if her family cannot accept her honesty, then it makes sense that she doesn't just come home and say, Hey everybody, here you go. Because there's a chicken and an egg to addiction, right? Yeah.

Like, you don't just become somebody who struggles with alcohol in a vacuum. Usually those seeds are planted along the way. And we drink, people who struggle with alcoholism, they drink because it works. Yeah. It's a powerful, powerful numbing tool to make that whatever pain is in there, whether that's from mom, whether it's from dad, whether that's from abuse, whether that's from assault, and who knows why, but it works. Yeah.

And I think that, you know, while I am surprised at the extent of how bad it was today, like how much she was using on a regular basis and affecting her day to day, there's still, you know, the fact that she abuses alcohol is not a surprise to me. As I had mentioned, just so many things that have happened throughout the years that I knew that there was, you know, it was a coping mechanism for her for sure. I just didn't know the extent of how bad it was now So I what I can't tell is are you burdened by I I are you burdened by

Um, I guess I'm just trying to put myself in your shoes if I had a friend who's been a friend for 25 years And i've gotten several friends who've been friends that long. If one of them said, Hey dude, I've been a long term alcoholic. I've been struggling for a long, long time and I'm coming to visit my family and I'm going to need to go to a couple of meetings and I'm not telling them. And so I'm going to tell them at your place. I mean, if that, I would gladly take that. I wouldn't lie for you. You can tell people whatever you want to tell them. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. I can't tell if the burden is the problem or, if I can really honest, Nikki, and this is me with you at the table, okay? It sounds like when she disclosed this, you went, like you rose above her in who's righteous and who's not.

Oh, yeah. I mean, I hope that's not the case. I don't think that that's the case at all. I actually, you know, I felt that in my immediate response when she first came clean to me was like, I will do anything I can to support you. Let me know what you need. You know, did a lot of work with her and just tried to get her in the right direction

and was absolutely open to being her kind of point of contact for support. Okay, awesome. I think it was in the period between then and now, there was a lot of the, it just turned into kind of this exhausting cycle of celebrating each day together without drinking to then a relapse would come and I would find out by getting a drunken call out of nowhere, being completely belligerent and then lying and gaslighting

me, and then the next day full of shame and regret and asking me forgiveness and support again and then that just kind of repeating itself over and over again, that became really hard for me. This is, this, you're right. Yes. Any of us who have ever have friends or loved ones who have struggled with addiction know exactly what you just experienced. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's exhausting and it's frustrating. And so let me tell you this, you have permission to set strong boundaries. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I think that what I struggle with now is I still wanna be that person for her. I really do.

I just don't, during that phase and seeing that cycle and how real that addiction was for her, I don't know what I can believe now. I feel like I don't, when she does tell me that she hasn't had a drink in two months, and do I just say like, okay, great. Like, you know, if it's continued. What's the other option?

You get to pick in that moment when she says, hey, I've not had a drink for two months and was calling you to celebrate. You get to pick one of two things, a story that she's lying to you yet again, or a story that, oh my gosh, she is on the path. Yeah. Either one of those stories have no impact on her.

The only person the impact is you. And so you can pick, yeah, right, you lied to me for 25 years, you're still lying to me. Or, yeah, dude, anytime, anytime, outside of a TV show that somebody says, it's time, there's always fits and stops and starts. And falling off the wagon, getting back up, falling off the wagon. You hear me say on the show, I took it from the recovery community, the day one language, day one. And lots of people who go to recovery have lots of day ones.

Because you're learning how to feel that hurt that alcohol has been working so well to take away for so long. Right. And it's exhausting. Both are true. Yeah. And what you want right now is both and. You want to be her person, but you don't want the weight of being her person.

Yeah, I think it's just I'm up for being the person. It's just, it's hard being the only person. That's fair. And I think that's where you can come in and say, I can't be your only anymore. And by the way, I'm not going to do things that violate my core value, which is like keep secrets from my husband. Not going to do that. Yeah. If you want help from me, of course I'm going to bring him along. How dare you? You broke my trust. Okay. Then, then you're asking me to violate one of my core core

values. I'm not going to lie to your family. You can tell them you're over at my house. Fine. I'm not going to go out of my way to lie for you. Yeah. I'll go with you to meetings or I need to know why they're suddenly so unsafe that you have to lie to them. That you're bringing me into this. But what you're not establishing, I think, that's important is like wipe the table clean

and just have you just spend a minute with you. It's probably good to journal about this a little bit. Write it down. What are my values? Or in another way to say it more directly, who am I? I'm a woman who never keeps secrets from her husband, period. Yeah. I will say that one of the things,

and I feel like I have tried to do a lot of that type of reflection around this situation. One of the things that does bother me that might be a me issue is kind of like when she does come into town and we are with our friends and she is kind of pitching her life as something I know that it's absolutely not. And so it becomes uncomfortable for,

I think that's the problem I have with her not being honest with other people is because it's like uncomfortable for me to just sit by and listen to what I know is lies when in front of people I know could help her and support her. You need to tell her that directly. Yeah.

When you come here, I can't just sit by and have you lied to all of our friends because that violates one of my core values, which is I don't lie to my friends. Okay. And so if y'all want to get together and we all hang out, that's fine, but you can't go on these tirades

about how wonderful everything is when you're drowning and I'm the only one who knows it. It's not, but you can't go on these tirades about how wonderful everything is when you're drowning and I'm the only one who knows it It's not fair to me Especially because all these other women love you as much as I do But you see how it comes back to not something she's doing but it's one of your values it's being violated I'm not gonna lie to my friends And when you come here and do that, I feel like I'm put in a position to either support you or lie to them And I'm not gonna lie to my friends. And when you come here and do that, I feel like I'm put in a position to either support you or lie to them and I'm not gonna lie to my friends.

Yeah. That's helpful. Cause I think that that is the part I was struggling with if I should be putting my own values over, you know, pushing or forcing my friend to do something she wasn't ready to do. I guess it's not doing that. She brought you into it.

Yeah. Right. And so one of my things I've done multiple times is tell people, hey, you got 48 hours and then I'm going to get some other people involved in this. So you can control the story for 48 hours. You go make the phone calls you need to make, you send the text message, whatever you need to do. I am going to bring other people into this in 48 hours, 72 hours. Because I can't carry the weight of this anymore. If you tell anybody you're told, me right now so that ten years from now we

are able to laugh and I'm not at your funeral. Yeah, I've had to kind of reiterate that a couple times to her that she gets really angry with me. I just am like, I love you, but your safety and health are more important to me than our friendship right now. So it's okay if you're mad at me. All day, every day. That's probably one of the most common things

I've said over my career is, I much rather you hate me right now and be alive to hate me 10 years from now than the other way around. You to like me now and not be here in 10 years. So yeah. I do think it really is at the point of being afraid for, you know, that she'll stay alive with us.

So I think if possible, is there an opportunity for you all to see each other in person soon? In the next month or so, yes. Okay, I would tell her we need to have a hard conversation in next month Give her some time Okay, and I think it's worth you writing down your bullet points of that conversation so that it doesn't get because she'll People who struggle with addiction are amazing at shifting the conversation

part of the illness is Honesty and ability to see reality as it is right all? All that's part, it's baked into it. And so the best you can do to not take it all personal, right, as her dishonesty is a personal attack on you versus her dishonesty is a way her body's telling her, this is what we have to do to stay alive. That's why making amends is so important, circling back and saying,

I lied to you for this many years and I'm sorry. But that comes after, that's not step one, right? Right. And so you backing up and saying, hey, here's how this is going to go from here on out. You came to me and told me this, I'm taking the reins on my life now. Here's how this is going to go. Okay. I'm bringing in these four people in 48 hours. You can get everybody together and we

can have a conversation and we'll rally around you. We'll pray for you. We'll get you whatever. We'll pool our money if you need to go to rehab, go to 30-day, whatever. But I can't carry this by myself anymore. Screw you. I can't believe I trusted you. Yeah, I'm sorry. I can't believe I trusted you. Yeah, I'm sorry But she deserves to hear that from you directly I think Yeah. Yeah, I'm comfortable saying that to her. Okay, expect that to not go well Don't be surprised if it doesn't go well and again, this is so easy for me to do but to say it from over here But do your best to not take it personally easy for me to do, but to say it from over here, but do your best to not take it personally. Even though it will hit you right in the middle of the chest.

She'll probably say some things about it like, I know you struggled with this and you did that. I didn't. You're right. You're right. Cool. Great. Grand.

In 48 hours, I'm telling our four friends. In 48 hours, I'm calling your sister. In 48 hours, I'm calling your big brother Unless you can tell me why that person is not safe, but I can't carry this anymore. I'm worried you're gonna die Let's get pretty direct with it and Generally those conversations it's great to have a phone number or two for somebody to call I've even done research right here Here's an area a place in your area We'll get you in We'll get you in We'll get you in

But yeah, your boundaries are right. I think y'all have strung this thing along now that so far now that You're still holding on to this trust violation. Let that go You have a friend who's just deeply deeply hurting let that stuff go for right now. Y'all can circle back on that later. What we're worried about now is, I'm worried about her not being here anymore. And that means as a friend, I gotta risk being hated, being not liked, being called names. Cause I'm over my head and I need some help.

And we're not keeping this secret anymore. Thanks for the call, Nikki. Go do the next right thing. Holler back at us and let us know how that conversation goes. And if your friend wants to call in the show, I'd love to talk to her. It's awesome. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You've probably heard people talk about different kinds of flags and friendships and romantic relationships. You got red flags and green flags and beige flags. Listen, yes, it can be helpful to look for relationship patterns

or unsafe behaviors. But if you ask me, all these flag labels can distract from what's really important when you're trying to find a lasting relationship. What's really important are your values and your potential romantic partner's values and whether both of you are willing to wake up every day and choose to honor each other's values. But when you grow up in challenging environments or given how we are all bombarded with everyone else's values all day, every day, it can be tough to even know what are my values?

What is important to me in a relationship and how will I show up to honor myself and love my partner? Forget all the different flags on someone else. Instead, ask yourself, how can I learn what I value? Therapy can help you figure out your values, help you learn for what you're looking for in relationships and then help you decide your boundaries in non-negotiables. If you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp.

BetterHelp is 100% online therapy that works with your schedule. To get started, you just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. So whether you're dating, you're married, or you're building a friendship, or you're just working on yourself, give it a shot with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's a better help

Help dot com slash deloni All right, let's go back out to California and talk to dear Marie. What's up, Marie? Hi, how's it going? Just remarkable. What's up in your world? Not sitting in my car and can't believe I'm doing this. Well, I'm glad you're here What's up? Okay, so it's kind of changed since I originally wrote my question awesome a little bit I don't even know what your really your original question is all the way. So go for it. Excellent. All right, okay, so Starting in like mid-december, it was like a week and

a half before Christmas, I suddenly just stopped sleeping. Basically, I would go to bed, fall asleep totally normally, and then pop up at like three hours later and just not be able to go back to sleep at all. Did you have big life changes? I did not. It felt like it was so out of nowhere. Okay. And I have a one, a three and a four year old. Hold on. Those are big life changes, Marie. Good God. I've been around for a year.

Good God. Yeah, well, I mean, I've been around for a year. A little more. No, nothing's changed. I just have three humans I created in the last four years. Yeah, you know, pretty quickly. And yeah, it felt like it was pretty out of nowhere. Okay, I want to do a thing with you. Is that cool?

I'm starting to work with you. I'm going to do a thing with you. No, totally. Okay, close your eyes. Okay. And then on the count of three, on the count of three, I want you to snap them open. Okay. Like, over-exaggerate. You're in your car, nobody's watching. And if they are, they're gonna think you're weird already. So, three, two, one, snap them open.

Okay, you're wide-eyed right now. Yes. Got it? Pretend it's 3 a.m. Okay, you're wide-eyed right now. Got it? Pretend it's 3 a.m. Okay. What is your body desperately trying to get your attention for? Well, the thought spiral that would happen was usually like, first I would start to panic knowing that I was probably not going to fall

back asleep. Okay. And then I would immediately start thinking about everything that I had to get done the next day that was about to be ruined. Right. And everything because it's the holidays that is about to get ruined. And I'm gonna make myself sound like a crazy person, but then the thought spiral continues. And then it goes into, oh my gosh,

if I am this level of sleep deprived, then I have a hard time not being impatient with my three very small children. And then I'm going to be a terrible mom that day and my kids are getting a subpar childhood and it just goes and goes and goes. And I would find, I just find myself spending so much energy trying to actively stop my thoughts snowball. There you go.

That's it. That's it. That's it. Yeah. That's it. Are you still married? I am, yes. In some of these thoughts spin outs, do you look over and see your husband just peacefully dead asleep next to you and you just want to punch him? Actually, yes. Yes and no. I know. Yes, because I wish I was sleeping. No, because he's been like a rock star Okay, all of it. I'm gonna rattle some things off to you, okay?

Okay Number one. I like to start with the idea that my body's not broken Okay, I want to start with the idea that it's my body's doing the best it can Okay, that's not always the case, but most of the time it is. Yeah. So, if you have three young kids, I do.

And you, and I'm gonna rattle off four or five things, okay, see if any of these hit home. If you don't have active, engaged relationships with other women on or about your age or some help with those kids, your body would be failing you if it let you sleep all night. If you and your husband owe a bunch of money and your amygdala knows, I've got three kids and if one thing happens during this Christmas Season and we don't make this sale or we don't get this thing or his raise doesn't come through They're gonna take our house and our cars and our food

If any of that is true, even if it's bananas, that's the way down the road Your body would be failing you if you let you sleep all night If you can't think of the last time If you can't think of the last time you wrote things down or you felt like you were doing anything. You ever been skiing before water skiing? I failed, but yes, I tried. Okay, but when, okay, so you know what I'm about to say. Whenever you're water skiing and you're behind the boat and you wave like, all right, go

for the first 30 yards, you're just getting blasted in the face with water until you can get up on top of the water. When you have a one-year-old, God help you, much less a four-year-old and a three-year-old on top of it, most of your day feels like I'm getting dragged behind the boat and I can't get on top of the water. Yes, that's accurate. And if your body knows any one thing that doesn't get done the whole day falls over, it would be failing you if it let you sleep. So what happens is you go and you go and you go and you go and you go and you tell yourself

a story. I don't have time to sit down and journal. I don't have time to go have a cup of coffee with somebody. I don't have time to go talk to a counselor. My somebody. I don't have time to go talk to a counselor. My husband, I don't have time or any money to get somebody to come watch the kids for half a day so we can reimagine our marriage because our marriage is completely different than it was four years ago. Then your body's going to crash for three hours, take the minimum amount of sleep it

can get by on and it's going to spring you back awake because it is under threat. Loneliness, clutter, debt, existential angst. And what I mean by that is lots of scrolling, lots of news watching, lots of people making predictions about the future and they're trying to get you to buy stuff because by terrifying you and you got three little kids, your body is not wired to absorb all of that. So it may be that you're not broken as much as there's just some things you got to do differently during the day. Does that make sense?

Yes, definitely the not having it in my head that there's zero time to sit down. And that if one thing goes off the rails, then everything is toast. Okay. And that if one thing goes off the rails, then everything is toast. I just don't know how to get out of that thought pattern. It's so hard. I don't know how to make my brain stop doing that. So in counseling, one of the terms we use is leakage. It's just a gross word, I know, but it is what it is. Those fears and those

thoughts and those to-do's, they will find their way out of your body. You can take the time throughout the day and write them down or they will wake you up in the middle of the night to get out, but they will come out. And I understand that understand that what I'm asking a mother of three are you working? Are you staying at home? I Am staying at home right now. Okay. Can you honestly look me in the face even though we're on the phone and tell me you aren't dreadfully lonely I Actually am NOT I have like the best friends ever. I'm so blessed.

I feel like I have an army of people. Do you see them in person? Do you all hang out? Yes. Okay. Do you all talk about not as much as I'd like, but yeah, we talk about real stuff. Yeah, we do. Okay.

Excellent. Will you all commit to writing things down? Yeah, I will. And commit to saying, okay, I need somebody to come over twice a week so I can go for a walk by myself. Yeah. I need a nap during the day. Or for you right now, I need to stay up during the day and I'm going to use that time to

write even though all I want to do is lay down and go to sleep because I'm so tired I can't even see straight. Yeah. How's your marriage? Great. My husband's wonderful. He can be wonderful and you can be wonderful. Yeah, but y'all can both be great, but you both may be operating on old software.

Oh, no. He's we honestly, we've we actually we've been both been listening to your show for like a year and we've Put into practice a lot of things that we've heard you talk about and we did a little year-end meeting Yeah, dude, you're like this is I just feel like the best we've been a married 11 years And I was like your 11 was just the best year for us even though I stopped sleeping. Awesome. So a couple of just tricks of the trade.

If you bust wide awake at three o'clock in the morning, after 10 minutes get up. After 10 minutes get up. And I want you to smile and it's gonna be so hard to do cause you're gonna be pissed off. Okay. After 10 minutes, get up. And I want you to smile. And it's going to be so hard to do because you're going to be pissed off. Yes. I want you to smile and say, well, I guess it's time to get up.

And then I want you to go into another room and get out a notebook, a journal of some sort and write down, all right, you woke me up. What do we got to do? And here's all I want you to do. I want you to write on a list all the stuff that's in your head. Just get it out of your head and onto a piece of paper. Okay. Okay.

And then I want you to take that list and really quickly at 3 a.m. divide it up. What are these? Can I do tomorrow? What are this is existential and I can't do anything about it. I am divided up. What are these can I do tomorrow? What are this is existential and I can't do anything about it.

You can't do anything personally about the fires in California. You can't personally do anything about the state of the world economy and the rise of AI. You can't do anything about that. Yeah. You can say, I've got five amazing friends. Once a week, everybody's coming over for dinner.

Husband, I love you. You're out. I can say, Hey husband, you and I need to get on a budget because we're going to stop being in debt because I'm tired of my body waking me up at 3am because we're under existential threat because we owe all this money. Yeah. Do you get what I'm tired of my body waking me up at 3 a.m. because we're under existential threat because we owe all this money Yeah Do you I'm saying Yeah, I do I hear you okay If a couple of weeks of that

Doesn't stop. Oh, by the way after that go get a book and a light a low like a low glow light a book in a light a low like a low glow light a non blue light and just read some fiction in the living room until your eyes start to really droop and then go back and get in bed but here's what we need to do we need to retrain our bodies that are they don't go to war in that bed so if we go to war we get up because I don't want my body to begin to tense up and anticipate going to bed and then sleep, sleep, sleep. And then it crashes and it wakes up like, oh, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep. And then it just, you're training your body that that's where we fight.

All right. Yeah, I can definitely, I can definitely relate to that. After a few weeks, if this is not getting any better, I want you to call your OBGYN and say, I'm really struggling. Okay. Yeah. And I won't give brand names. I'm very weary of sleep meds, especially I won't give brand names but Sleep hypnotics they don't put you to sleep. They make you unconscious

Yeah, but they also in the very short term can help Retrain yourself like this is a place where we go to sleep Yeah So carefully and thoughtfully I would sit down with the doctor. Okay. But hear me say commit today. I'm going to stop going to war with my body.

If it's waking me up at three, it probably is trying to get my attention about something. I just need to figure out what that is. And for some people just shifting the posture of go to sleep with instead of, I'm glad you woke me up. What's up? Sometimes that's enough just to drop your whole body posture. Sometimes creating time at 9 a.m. in the morning to write down, all right, here's what I need to get done today. Here's what must get done. Here's what I'd love to get done. And here's end of time if I don't write all that.

And I'm going to get those things out maybe at two o'clock in the afternoon, which again, I'm making stuff up. I'm talking to a mom of three kids under four. That's lots of booties to wipe and lots of baths to get. I get it. I get it. I get it. I get it. I get it. If you got 10 minutes, 5 minutes where you can just exhale and say I'm really grateful for

my husband. I'm really grateful for these three crazy kids. I'm really grateful for this house. I'm just gonna take a minute to see how I feel. I'm gonna check in with myself. And if I'm not doing okay I'm gonna have that text thread of those four or five women that I just love because I'm so blessed by them. I'm gonna send out a note. Not doing okay. Everybody think about me tonight. If y'all want to come have a cup of hot tea on the back porch, come over to my house.

But everyone has to leave at 845 because I'm going to bed at nine. But let's begin to try to let some of that stuff out during the day and try to get some actual solution plans. The body is amazing at dealing with stressful things when it knows you're driving. It will wake you up every three hours if it thinks there's no driver and the car is just careening off the edge of a cliff. You can be in the driver's seat driving off the cliff and you won't be anxious. You'll be nervous, you'll be frustrated, You'll be nervous, you'll be frustrated, you'll be exhausted, you'll be annoyed, but you're not anxious.

Your body's waking you up because it doesn't think anybody's driving. So we're gonna find teeny tiny pockets of digging in and finding out, okay, why do you keep waking me up? I need to let you know I'm driving, I know, I know. I know I wanna get all these bottles washed and I know it's not the end of time if I don't.

I know I wanna get these diapers purchased. It will be fine. It'll be annoying tomorrow, but it'll be fine. Let's get all that on paper before nine o'clock before we go to bed. And again, a couple of weeks of some really intentional, I'm not going to fight you. I'm going to get up, go to the other room, call your doctor. Say, I'm really, really struggling with sleep. Can we talk about it? You aren't broken, Marie. You're not broken. You're doing good. Those little three little kids, they're lucky, lucky, lucky to have you as their mama.

Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. All right, let's talk about Delete Me, my go-to provider for online safety, security, and peace of mind. Listen, we all know that we live on the internet these days. EliteMe, my go-to provider for online safety, security, and peace of mind. Listen, we all know that we live on the internets these days. I wish this was not the case, but it doesn't matter if I don't like it. Everything in my life and in your life takes place over the internets now.

Our work, our personal messages and communications, we buy most of our things, everything's on the internet now. So much of our lives exist there. Because so much of our lives take place on the internet, it's become normal to give away our email addresses to random companies who then turn around and sell them to other companies. And this is why I'm happy to use and recommend DeleteMe. I looked at my reports that my friends at DeleteMe sent me.

They've reviewed over 35,000 different data brokers with my personal information, and they've removed my personal info from hundreds of scammy data broker sites. Delete Me has saved me countless hours, days even, and they've sent me detailed reports throughout the year showing me exactly what they've removed and from where. I want you to have this kind of peace too. So listen, we can't really avoid the internet,

but we can make our personal data personal again with DeleteMe. Get protected with DeleteMe today and get 20% off all of the DeleteMe plans. That comes out to less than $9 a month. Go to joindeleteeme.com slash deloney right now to sign up. That's J-O-I-N joindeleteeme.com slash deloney. All right, we are back. Oh, by the way, during the break, I gave that last caller building an onyxious life.

I think that'd be a good roadmap for them, her and her husband to walk through. Dude, there, Kelly, there's nothing worse. I just have PTSD, not diagnosed, but just imaginary PTSD from those years when I couldn't sleep. Oh my gosh. Getting woken up 3 a.m., 3 a.m., 3 a.m., 3 a.m. All right, so something cool happened. Go for it. All right. And I've never not, I've never had a problem with sleep, but I'm married

to someone who struggles big time with sleep. So I have a lot of compassion for her because I see what it does to him. He struggled with sleep for 20 years. So it's a lot. All right. This is from... I almost made the best joke about rolling over and seeing you, but I didn't. Wow. I didn't make it. I didn't make the joke. But if you say the joke you didn't make... It doesn't count.

Anywho. You can't triple stamp or double stamp. All right. This is from Dawn and she says, over the holidays, I got behind on a few episodes and I started listening to two episodes in one day for like a week. That's a lot. John mentioned a few different times about stating what you want in your relationships. I gathered my courage and because we were both at work, I had to send him a text, but I texted my husband about some things I want in the bedroom.

Hey-o. Not need, because he responds to my needs very well. This was a want, which is very scary for me to state. He texted back almost immediately saying that he understands and he's happy to go along with it and he's really glad that I told him. Thank you for encouraging me to handle this quickly. We've only been married for two months and instead of letting it go unsaid and feeling the certain type of way for years

Yes, thanks for the show. What is the name for a deloni groupie? Whoa a do be workshop that one a doopey I Don't know we need like a collective noun. You know how like you have a like a murder of crows or a, you know that one. Come on. I know murder of crows. I'm just thinking like a murder of. But we need a, we need a collective noun.

A gang. For the gang. Yeah. I'm in on that. If somebody wants to write in to johndelaney.com slash ask and put and put name of gang in the byline. If we pick your name, we'll send you a bunch of Delaney gear. That would be awesome. You could do felonies.

The felonies. That's how it always auto corrects is to felony. To that or baloney. Yeah, or to baloney. Hey, high five. Who was that? Dawn, D-A-W-N? Her name was Dawn. She has to go by Dawn.

Excellent. I am so proud of you. I don't love that you texted it, but hey, you know what? I'm super happy that it happened. And in case you're wondering, there's outliers everywhere. Most husbands I know would love to get a text message from their wife saying things that she wants to do in the bedroom. Hashtag just saying.

Probably awesome if you said it, but man, the text, good place to start. Doesn't surprise me that he immediately responded with awesome, cool, great. I'm in. Right? Yes. Not a surprise. Awesome, everybody. Thank you all for joining us on the show. I think like a theme of the show today,

Kelly was like, if your friends or loved ones do something and it sets something off inside of you, you gotta look in the mirror first. Let's be with each other. Love you guys, bye.