The Dr. John Delony Show - My Wife Left Me Because I am a Man Child

Episode Date: November 24, 2025

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All right, let's talk about your marriage. Right now, we have February and October weekends on sale for the money in marriage getaway. It's the best marriage retreat on the planet. Tickets start at $749 a couple. Get yours at ramsysolutions.com slash getaway. I have been trying to take some steps to, you know, use nicer words, whatever. thoughts were I'm killing myself mentally and physically to put food on the table. And my kids

took it out, I'm killing myself. And they went to their mom about it and said, hey, dad's going to kill himself. And she said, well, we're out. All right, but that, that means that happened in a context. What's going on? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee. I'm a real person. I'm a real boy. Talking with real people. So if you're already caught up in the madness that is AI influencers, come pull up a real seat and I guess you can have some AI nachos with us.

And we're going to figure out real challenges. Because no matter how much you get on the rabbit holes on the internets, our real lives keep happening. And we need help and support with our mental and emotional health, our marriages, our relationships, our kids, everything. If you want to be on the show, I'd love to have you go to John Deloney, dot com slash ask a sk and for the jillions of you who reach out on social media no i don't take um marriage and mental health questions on instagram or facebook but i will take your calls live i like to talk

to real people all right let's go out to ashville north carolina and talk to a j what's up brother how we doing good dr john so glad to talk to you guys today thank you for taking my call you bet man What's up? So my question is my wife and I recently separated. She took the kids and I'm just wondering how I can kind of rebuild that relationship after I have

emotionally hurt them. Tell me about it, man. All right. So they left about a month ago. Real quick, real quick, before you tell me a story. Okay. I want to, I need to frame this for myself. Okay.

When you say after I emotionally hurt them, I caught just a hint of, you don't think you did that, but she took the kids and left because she thinks you did. Wow. Or are you owning? No, no, no. I've hurt my family. Well, you're good.

So I guess it's a little bit of both. So I don't know where to start. So it's a little bit of both. So I don't know where to start with that. So long story, I had seen the writing on the wall for about six months. And I had been trying to take some steps to change some things, you know, use nicer words, whatever. And it just, it came to head one day. I made kind of a crash comments around the kids about how hard I'm working.

My exact thoughts were I'm killing myself mentally and physically to put food on this table. And my kids took it as I'm killing myself. And they went to their mom about it and said, hey, dad says he's going to kill himself, which is not what I said. And she said, well, we're out. all right but that that means that happened in a context yeah you know what i'm like so if if i said the exact same thing in my house a i have a history of always taking care of my family and like my family knows i love them and b i have a history of making stupid comments that i wish i could take back and i could go on and on but yeah my wife's first thought wouldn't be oh gosh this is

imminent her first thought would be don't say that you moron right so give me a context for seasons or for things you've said over the years that led to because that that's somebody that's a camel looking for a straw to break us back yeah so i mean i agree it wasn't the one comment at the end of the day um i am a turtle like i hide from conflict and so instead of dealing with my mess her mess and marriage i just retreated to video games that's my I'm not an alcoholic. I don't do drugs. I'm a great guy.

It's just instead of dealing with stuff, I retreat to a world I can't control when I can't control mine. Okay. How many kids you have? Three. How old are they? 12, 11, 8.

So if I was talking to your wife, put your wife hat on, if she called in my show and said, I just left my husband, took the kids and moved out. Are you even allowed to see them? Are you having contact with them? Yes.

First time I've seen him in a month was just at a sporting event real quick. So, no, I'm not. Okay, so I took my kids away from my husband, and I'm not even letting him see them. A, he hasn't fought me for him. No. Which is information I need. But what would she tell me the reason she walked out the door on you? Because I'm an emotional mess.

What does that mean? You play video games? That just means you're, you numb out. what do you mean emotional mess I don't know give me some specific examples of why she would walk out the door on you because she feels that I've hurt my children with my statements

and we do have a child that has a lot of mental stuff and is on medication and you know I've apparently made some remarks in the past I personally don't remember them I'm not going to say I didn't. And so I come across as a very harsh, passionate person to my children, I guess. Okay, be specific, brother. I can't tell if you're, if you are seriously in shock because your wife is not a good person and just bailed on you?

No, she's a great person. If you are being incredibly evasive. I don't, she's a great person. I honestly, like, she took your children from you. So either she has put herself in a binary. category either she is a hero who rescued her children from a monster or not and the path for you brother is 100% you can't escape this it will it will track you down a hundred percent ownership of reality either your wife is not a good person and you're going to have to go to war for your kids

or you have some reckoning with honesty Well, I would say I have some reckoning with honesty Okay, what are some things you have said That she has stood there with her mouth wide open Saying, I can't believe you just said that to our kids Well, that's the thing There's not really I mean, I've called my kids retarded sometimes

And yeah, that's harsh And, you know, sometimes I try to make them Okay, stop, stop, stop Okay. You have a little. list of things you do have a list of things you don't ever call your kids that but you're not even letting yourself feel the fact that that's what you called your kids on multiple occasions okay I want you to be honest with me dude give me some of the things that you've said that in

a better light you would not have said in front of your kids or even worse at your kids Well, I wouldn't have made that one statement about, you know, killing myself mentally physically to put food on the table. I wouldn't have made that statement. I wouldn't have called them retarded an occasion or two. But honestly, that's it. Like, sometimes I do feel like I've either mastered the art of self-deception or maybe I'm being gas-lit. I'm not sure which one it is. It's hard for me to wrap my head around, dude.

Well, that's why I called you. It's hard for me to wrap my head around. I've had a ton of time, I've had a month now, to self-reflect. And, you know, there's been a rollercoaster of emotions with that. And, you know, I realize that I'm basically a spineless domesticated man-child. And in my wife's defense, she's raised four kids the last 15 years and not just three. And so six months ago or six weeks ago, you said you saw the writing on the wall. What does that mean?

I realize that, you know, our marriage is not okay. We weren't communicating things. We're not, like, we're just not good communicators. And instead of dealing with the conflict, I would just, like I said, when I know I can't control this world, I'll pick of a controller and control that one. That's my therapy. That's how I cope. And I guess she had enough of being alone in a marriage, and she took the kids and left. Okay. Now you're starting to own it. but you're owning it at arm's length like you're almost talking about yourself in the third person

like the the thought of actually feeling this is like a tidal way for you you're going to feel like you're going to be drowning yeah so is she done is she following for divorce? No, no, no. And that's, we're working together. Like, we've had a couple marriage lessons. I've actually got one this afternoon. Like, we are both working together

and we're trying to be wise. That's one reason why I didn't, like, fight for my kids, because I'm like, they're in the safest place they can be. They're with their mom. Like, uh, and anyway, so like, you keep saying that though, but then you say, I don't even know I might be being gaslit, but thank God they're with her. And I've been like an absentee father, immature child. I don't know why she left. It's very conflicting. It doesn't feel conflicting.

It feels like you're trying to avoid one reality or the other. I mean, your wife had to have sat there in front of a marriage therapist the last few weeks and rattled off what's been going on. What has she told the therapist? Exactly that, that I am very harsh

with our children and with her, and that I don't take milk out. So one of my kids is allergic to milk, and I just, I don't believe it to an extent. And apparently I put him in some situations where we're not safe, you know, that type of stuff. Why don't you believe it? Because I don't, well, yeah, that I wish I knew. I mean, I do believe it to a certain degree. Like, I'm not going to feed him milk.

But am I going to wash my hands after eating? eating pizza, you know, I think that's an extreme thing. Does his physician think that's extreme? I've never talked to his physician. Why? Because I'm a man-child. My wife handles everything. In my defense, she has raised four kids last 15 years.

I do nothing except work. You have no defense here. None. I know. None. Here's the deal. Beyond your wife, beyond your kids, you have a choice to make. Am I going to be an adult male, an honor and love my kids and my wife? Or am I going

to leave? Because what you're doing right with me, if I couldn't be married to you for more than two seconds. Because you just spin circles around everything. Well, thank you for saying that. Nobody else will tell me that. Like, are you out of this thing? No, no, no, no. I'm agreeing with you 100% I'm finally somebody's telling me something that I can do before you do anything

brother you have to honestly ask yourself do you want to be married yes okay you've heard me say this a thousand times I'll say it again

behavior is a language if I'm you if I'm your best friend you know I'm telling you take the video game controller and throw it away the whole box sell it today.

Okay. That's you taking all of the alcohol out of your house, except for you. It's video games. And I'm going to start being present at home. And when I feel myself getting angry, when I feel myself wanting to run, I'm going to exhale, take a real deep breath, hold it, exhale, and then I'm going to stay present because I'm not a child. I'm a grown man.

And then I'm every single morning of my life, I'm going to ask my wife, how can I love you today? Before I think about work, before I think about any of that other nonsense. I'm going to own reality. I'm going to write down every single person on the planet that I owe money to. I'm going to put it in order of least to most. I'm going to start paying people what I owe them because I'm an adult. Because I made a commitment when I slept with my wife, at least on three occasions, and had three kids. I'm going to get under this whole family and hold them up.

Yes, sir. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. And anytime you catch yourself saying, well, maybe, or I may have, stop yourself and say, I'm sorry, I did. and if you find yourself unable to say that because it's factually incorrect then you have to turn and face your wife and take that on because if that's the case you have a woman who is trying to steal your three kids I don't think that's the case though I don't either I'm just telling you right now brother you are worth more than the life you're spending on 55 different plates You have to be exhausted, huh? I mean, yeah, emotionally.

Not physically exhausted. You don't do anything at home. No, I don't. I mean, yeah, I mean, I do what I can. I work a lot. I do. I have a full-time job. Probably work 60 hours a week, you know, whatever.

We all do, man. Yeah. We all do. Yeah. and that doesn't give us a pass to come home and not participate in this amazing life we have because here's the question why what's all the work for to provide for my family and live life live a good life okay if living a good life is coming home while a tornado of activity happens around you and you're living with a partner that

that you've been with for a decade and a half who you know is more tense when you're at home and your idea of a good life is pulling out a video game controller. I'm going to challenge you on your definition of a good life. A good life starts with somebody who is rooted and connected

and people's shoulders drop when they walk into a room, not tints up. And for you, brother, I want home to be a place you can't wait to get home too. Instead of it becoming a failure factory. If I'm you and y'all go into marriage therapy and you really think, if you believe what you're telling me that my wife's been raising a fourth kid for 15 years, and yada, yada, yada, y'all. Today, walk in to marriage counseling

and drop your shoulders and hold your wife's hands and say, hold on a therapist before anybody says anything. I got something I got to say. Today's day one when I start taking full responsibility for my actions. And today is day one. I stop blaming.

I stop spinning. I stop whining about how hard I'm working. Everybody's working hard. everybody's worried about finances everybody but I have three kids and I've got a wife who you say is amazing today I become a rock that this family can anchor into and I'm going to have to practice learn how to do that because I've never ever done it will you be patient with me and will you teach me

and when you walk alongside me while I learn that's the place you got to start man call anytime brother i'll tell you the truth but man you got a lot not a oh i've got so good to change my personality no you have some soul searching to do and you have some actions to change thanks for the call brother we come back a woman asks how to feel safe at church again this show is sponsored by better help this time of year can be tough for all of us so be sure you check in on your friends and if you can reconnect with loved ones. I recently reconnected with some

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Phoebe. Hey, Phoebe, what's up? Hey, John, this is pretty wild. I've been listening to your show for a while, so it's kind of crazy to hear you, like, you know, not on my headphones. Well, I appreciate your calling. That's fantastic. I'm really grateful. What's up? Okay, so my question is, how do I go back to church without worrying about scary or violent things happening to my family? That's a pretty specific question, so I'm going to give you the the saga here um i love about an hour away from the church that was attacked in a grand blink michigan and um man i thought i was too tired to cry but no too late again no that's a scary it's a scary thing for everybody yeah um man it was scary because um and you know no religious

violence isn't scary but um i'm a member of the church of jesus christ of water day saints and that isn't my building, but that's my church. And I had been, you know, in my church with my family that morning. And I just keep picturing like what would I have done with my children if that had happened to us. And I just realized I don't know how to protect them from that. You know, and I tell my three-year-old every day, you know, my job is to keep you safe. and that's what I want to do, and I just, I don't know how to do that. And I, and I want to go back to church. I don't want to be afraid. I don't want to let this stop me from living, but I also don't

want to just, you know, pretend it didn't happen or just, you know, like nothing bad will ever happen to me because it, it did happen to my, my friends' friends and my friends' family, you know, And I just, I'm trying to figure out how to, how to go back to church and not put my head on a swivel. Yeah. I guess the first thing I'm going to tell you is I'm sorry. Thank you. It shouldn't happen like that. And you're not crazy.

Thanks. I had a very similar, a different but similar, when I dropped my daughter off at her small little Christian school here in town, the day that that killer went and shot up the window while the kids were in mass during their school. Yeah. I send my son to a Catholic school here in town. Like I had that same, I had that very same like, oh gosh, like that's off limits, right? That's the feeling I had. Like that all those violence can be somewhere else out there, but not a little kid's school. nobody can drive into a church right right yeah and i i feel like it's hard too because um in our

in my word in my congregation we have um just a lot of little kids that have all we've all kind of moved in recently and there are still a lot of kids who you know go to school and they get training there you know they have to have these drills about an active shooter but i just have these little babies. I have just a three-year-old and a six-month-old. And, you know, they don't, you know, the day we found out and everything happens by, you know, I'm over here having a panic attack and my three-year-old's like, can I have a fruit snack? You know, like, he has no idea what's going on and I want to protect him from that. And I just don't know how. Three-year-olds you should protect because they won't understand. Yeah. And that makes it almost scarier, right? I can tell my 15-year-old,

if something happens, here's what I want you to do. I could tell my nine-year-old that. Three-year-old, you just see that in a sense, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I'll tell you a few things. We're not going to solve it all here on this call, but I want to give you some direction, okay? Yeah, that'd be great.

First and foremost, you are not crazy. Anybody who rolls into church this upcoming Sunday should have that little tinge of fear in their chest. Yeah. Okay? And everyone should feel that. The second thing is, is you have to decide, am I going to go or not? I mean, I want to go. I mean, our leaders here and our local congregations have been so gracious.

And, you know, they said if you don't want to come, we're going to have virtual. You know, we'll have it on Zoom. Like, there's no pressure. Everyone is welcome. but if you stay home, they're so compassionate and so understanding. Sure. So, but I, if I can, I want to go. For me, personally, it's been very important that I get up and leave my house.

Yeah. Because that's how my body is going to be reminded that that's not the way of the world. It's, I mean, violence is a way of the world. Let me say it like that, but that every church is, that's not happening to. Right. Statistically speaking, that's not going to happen to you. Right? Yeah.

Yeah. And so that leads me to the next thing. Rumination feels like productive thinking. Going over and over, what would you do if that happened and I would do this and then that would happen? It feels like you're almost pre-planning and you're not. What you're doing is you're setting your body on fire from the inside out. It doesn't know the difference between a. real event and a mother imagining grabbing her three kids and not being able to find the youngest

one yeah so it just dumps the same response chemicals into your bloodstream and says it's time to go and so it's you when that thought pops in your head it's you literally catching it and saying out loud or yelling if you're by yourself no and then having a next picture that you can immediately backfill it with, which is one of everybody greeting you walking into church or walking out of church or holding all three of your babies, having a photo in your mind that you can immediately go to. And over time, that plot, a choice to not ruin it. You can't help it when that lightning bolt strikes, when that image of, oh my gosh, there's a car coming through the wall, right? Or there's a shooter walking in the back. You can't control that. It will hit you. Yeah. And it is

important to have like some some idea of a plan right right my dad used to do nuclear weapon drills when he was a kid he grew up in houston and they had nukes in cuba pointed right at the u.s and so they would make them do drills so this isn't a new thing i hate the fact that my daughter has to have active shooter or active lockdown or what they call bad guy drills i hate that with all my guts and also that's kind of been what's happening for a long time right and if i step out of it i've been doing tornado drills and hurricane drills and fired like it's it's this idea that we're kind of sold a bill of goods that we can all be protected we can't there might be a windstorm that comes from the sky and knocks a building over yeah right yeah a bad guy can walk in the front door

and so some of it is exhaling and saying i have some idea of a plan and also knowing that nobody no pre-plan they call the the the known knowns and the unknown unknowns and then the unknown unknowns like i don't you don't know right yeah yeah and then i'm going to do the next right thing the day after charlie kirk died i went and found an event to go to with people that i normally wouldn't like that I wouldn't have gone to otherwise and it ended up being a magical magical evening because I realized oh we're all on the same page that's awesome I drove my daughter to school right after that shooting because I wanted my body to experience this is a safe place for my kids yeah right yeah and I also love them and no I can't protect them all the time even though that's my one job and it keeps me up at night sometimes and that's okay to yeah that sounds about right i mean yeah so i think you're yeah you're you've got this the illusion of safety is gone and now i get to decide whether i'm going to meditate on it and scroll through it and read everything about the whatever they're reporting which by the way i've been enough

investigations um behind closed doors not criminal investigations but enough like digging into stuff that whatever they put on the table is often not real so I can do that and have all these conspiracy theories I can do that or I know that happened I know it's a tragedy I can go be a part of loving people well in that community or in my community yeah and then I can make a choice am I going to go

yeah and then as safely as I can go I'm going to walk in the front door with my head held high hold of my kids and by the way living in fear doesn't mean that you're not scared. Living in fear doesn't mean some days you just wake up and say, we're not going to go today. Yeah.

Like so I'm around people of faith a lot and they're like literally recovering from trauma and they're like, well, I don't want to live in fear. That's not living in fear. That's healing. That's grief, right? You need to go see a counselor. That's not living in fear, waking up one day and being like, hey, it's too much today. I'm not going to go.

It's patterns over time. And when you're like, hey, I'm letting this outside thing, this event, or these events dictate every step I make, and I'm not going to give them that kind of power. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do, is just not let it. You can't. I don't want it. You can't. Oh, well, okay, then. Don't try to not let it.

Okay. Because what you're doing is you're still giving it the power. Don't fight it. Walk right through it. you get what I mean? Yeah, I think so. It's just hard to, yeah, it's hard to do. Just because, you know, I've been going to church every Sunday for my whole life forever.

And so, like, it's never, like, even during, you know, the pandemic when we couldn't go, like, that was really hard. But it was kind of like, oh, like the whole world has been going. Like, nobody's going. So it was a little easier to say, like, you know what, I just don't feel up to it. I'm going to stay back. But with this, like, and like I said, I don't think anybody would think poorly of me if I decided not to go. But it's like, man, I just, it's just such a knee-jerk response that I'm scared that I would think poorly of myself if I chose not to go. Okay.

Well, don't you take a week off? that would be, I mean, we kind of did. This last Sunday, this last weekend, our whole worldwide church has a, every six months we do just a big broadcast. So no, it's kind of the same thing. Nobody goes to church. We all just watch broadcast from home. Yeah, but that's not, that's cheating. Oh, okay.

What if you play in like this Sunday morning? I'm going to take my kids out for breakfast. We're going to go, we're going to go have a gratitude breakfast. and we're all going to talk about the things we're grateful for. Your three-year-old will babble. Your two-year-old will just stare up into space and your one-world will just pee everywhere. But, like, it's, or maybe it's just doing your husband.

We're just going to have a gratitude breakfast. I got my bell rung in a boxing match, and I just need to go to the corner for a minute. Okay. Because you're putting a ton of pressure on yourself to be okay in a moment when you're not okay. Yeah. And the way to give yourself, the way to prove to yourself that you're worthy of being trusted is listening to yourself.

And right now your body's telling you, I need a minute. It's okay. That's not a statement of your faith. That's not a statement of your weakness. That's not a statement of your fear. That's a statement of you honoring being a good steward of the mind and body that God gave you. Okay. Yeah.

I don't know why, but it always feels better when someone tells me I'm being a steward. I just feel like it is less, like, I don't know. It gives me responsibility, but it's not... Agency. It gives you agency. I love agency. I know, I know. And it may be worth going back and looking how much agency have you given away over the years to your parents, to your church, to all these other things.

Yeah. That have been telling you, you should, you should, you have to, you should, you have to, you should. and then put in your own fist in your chest and saying today the right thing for me is looking at your husband and saying hey today the right thing for us is now if you do this forever when you know in your guts I want to go in that building but now I'm scared to then you begin to transition over living in fear

I'm going to not do a thing that I know is good for me that I want to be a part of that I want my feeling to be a part of because it makes me feel uncomfortable right right and so but right now it's like it's like a runner stepped off the curb wrong and blew their knee out it makes sense you got to take a break you got to heal and then if you're scared to ever jog again even though it made you feel good it kept your body healthy it cleared your mind but i'm afraid i'm going to step make a wrong step then that's living in fear that's not where you're at right now and for everybody listening there has been from the woman on the train to the shooting with jarley to the person driving through church through the international conflicts and i'm missing some here so people are going to send me mean things you didn't say you're right i like the political violence the the politician in minnesota like it just keeps going on and on and on

and i guess the big picture thing here is one one is a couple of things one violence like this has been going on forever we just didn't have every second of every angle and every commenter making every comment in our minds in our faces in our ears 24 7 365 it is up to us to get the information and turn it off this forces us to do is ask ourselves, what kind of world do we want? And for us in the U.S., we get a vote. We get to make a vote locally, statewide, and nationally. We get to decide, do we want to live in this world? And how do we want this thing to look? Other countries don't get that privilege. We do. We get that choice on 50 million different issues. And the final thing is we have to ask

herself what is right and good for us and even when it's scary or hard are we going to go anyway i cannot tell you as a public figure a guy who's out on stages all over the world i mean world all over the country how scary this has been and i can't tell you how healing it was to roll into a comedy club to see a comic that normally i wouldn't go see in a room full of hundreds of strangers, everybody united. And I was like, oh, this is where I live. Most people are good. I need to spend more time here with real people.

People leaning over to let people buy, people paying for each other's drinks, people opening the door for each other, people saying, excuse me, I'm so sorry for bumping you, humans interacting. with humans and that's at a comedy club that's at a local church that's on a hike with your friend that is real life i think with all my guts that's the path forward for all of us is to be around real people in the world remembering we're all on the same team here thank you for the call phoebe i'm really grateful that you reached out take a weekend off regroup with your husband feel the fear next time you're rolling into church feel uncomfortable

and if it's right for you all go in anyway and remember rumination is a waste of time it feels like helpful thinking it's not it's protective thinking thank you so much for the call we come back a woman asks is it worth it to have a second child just for my daughter i want to invite you to something really cool that's happening this month. Hallow, which is the prayer app that I use almost every single day, is teaming up with the Bible app and other Christian organizations all over the world for Global Bible Month. Heading into the holidays, there's no better time to slow down, reconnect with your spiritual life, and bring prayer back into your daily routine. During Global Bible Month, Hallow will offer a 30-day Bible story challenge. These are some of the

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at hallow.com slash deloni. That's Hallow, H-A-L-O-W.com slash Deloni. All right, let's go out to Philadelphia where she was born and raised and talked to Jessica. What's up, Jessica? Hello, you will tell by my accent that I was not born in me.

I know, I was just playing. That's the old Fresh Prince of Bel Air song. So, yeah, good to talk to you. What's up? Good talking to you, too. Yeah, so I'm going to read my question and then you can go from there. So my question is, is it a good idea to have a second baby just to give my daughter a sibling,

even though I really don't want to? How old is your daughter? She's only six months old, so I know this is a little bit, like, early. But I'm not young. You're like in the middle of a tornado asking, is this the right hairspray I should be using? for my hair. Right? Like, this isn't the moment to make any existential questions.

How old are you? I'm 35. Oh, gosh, you're not old. They're going to tell you it to your geriatric and you're a thousand years old, you grandma lit, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not. But. Yeah. Get me to the root of the question.

I guess the root of the question is I, we, it wasn't easy. to get to have my daughter. It's been a couple of years of just like, I guess, traumatic pregnancies and birth events. Have you lost pregnancies? Yeah. How many? One.

One. Did you name him or her? Yeah. What was the name? Gabriel. Gabriel. Sorry. No, that's okay.

I want to take a minute for Gabriel. I have the names of all the babies that my wife and I have lost in pregnancy through miscarriage. I have them tattooed on my body. It means something. Okay? Yeah. It means something. I'm sorry that Gabriel left early.

Thank you. Yeah, and with my daughter now, like, she was also born, not breathing, and she wasn't in the queue for 10 days. And, and it's, you know, I feel like it was, you know, a whole marathon to even have one healthy baby. and I kind of I guess I kind of want to answer this question because I kind of want to put I want to put like the pregnancy kids thing kind of like I'm done I'm tired okay listen to me listen to me okay if you're done be done yeah be done there is some there's some i would call it um trying to think of a non-nerdy way to say it there's some literature out some science on there about how having a sibling can help in the short term with language development and some social development and things like that reading things like that literacy um i often care way less about that but there's also some

literature about conflict right that it can be tough on kids if they've got so it's kind of mixed i care way more about when your daughter is 30 and she's taking care of old mom jessica right right she has some siblings to lean on in that time i i and i don't have that literature off top of my head I just know that I've got friends who have one kid and dealing with aging parents is really hard all by yourself. That said, hold on, that said, you've been through hell.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's okay to not want to go back through hell again. Personally, I would make no decisions right now. I would put a star on the calendar for a year from now. When you'll be Grandma 36 for crying out of that. So do. And.

And by the way, yes, risks go up, blah, blah, blah. You're not old. You're 36. And are you married? Yes. Okay. Then I would say, already plan a week into way with your husband. and you'll have an honest assessment about where you are.

Yeah. Yeah, that's another issue. Because he's pretty, like, he really wants another baby. Okay. And he keeps joking about her little brother and stuff like that. And I just, I don't know how to like, I don't know how to have this conversation. with him in a sense of like just

make him like understand how because to him like you know we had one you know we had bad experiences but then you know he sees her and like

he's you know over the moon with her and he you know just always wants you know how you know men want a boy or whatever and then so that's kind of like where he is He's just, like, so happy with everything and where we're at. And I'm still trying to understand what the heck happened.

Yeah, there you go. The last couple of years. There you go. Okay, so give yourself a second. Yeah. Give yourself a second. Can I give you a couple of things to do? Mm-hmm.

Some homework assignments? Mm-hmm. Because here's the thing. Both you and your husband are right. and that makes it tough because you're both being loving and you're both being honoring and you both want safety and grief and love are very closely connected okay I want you to do a couple of things okay yes I want you to first and foremost by yourself write Gabriel a letter. You're going to get frozen in that grief and you're not going to be able to move through it

until you move through it. And if he'll be brave, I want your husband to write a letter to Gabriel. And I want you all to read them to each other. Often in miscarriages, there's a, in any loss, but especially in miscarriages, there is a mix match, mismatch, if you will, of grief. One person's ready to move on.

One person gets, wants to sit in it. One person, it doesn't, it didn't have the same effect, as it did on the other person in terms of weight or whatever. And people fly past each other. Yeah. Okay? And it's okay. tell Gabriel that you were so happy that you got to be his mom for the period of time you did

that you're really sad that you never have to meet him all those things whatever whatever happened but it's you processing this and then you got to share it with somebody if y'all didn't do a small service i want you to do that it's not too late yeah okay yeah we were really wrapped up in the medical stuff i know i know it's chaotic and it goes so fast and all of a sudden it happens and then you're on your way home you don't realize what just happened right yeah yeah and then he's got to get up and go to work maybe you do too and all of a sudden it feels like the world is spinning right past you it's just everybody's blown and going and then you start to feel crazy yeah how much later after you lost gabriel were you did you find yourself

pregnant? Four months. Four months. Yeah. Right? So you don't even know what day it is and all of a sudden everyone's telling you to be excited for this new one and you can't breathe until you see that baby, right? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And then when you do see that baby, they take her away and put her in NICU for 10 days. Yeah. You can't hold your own baby, right? Yeah. You've been through hell. Yeah. Yeah, I guess.

Yeah, putting it all together. It's a lot. Because it... And if you're not able to tell your husband, this is the moment to do that and to say, I've been holding this in. I've been through hell. And to replay what I just told you, tell them what your experience is from the time you found out you were pregnant with Gabriel and you were so excited and it was going to be amazing all the way up until the birth of, your baby. And if you're in the middle of the road

after a head-on collision that you barely survived, that's not the time to be looking on CarMax for the kind of car you're going to buy, right? Yeah. You got to go home and you got to exhale. You've got to laugh. Thank God and you got to cry. Yeah, it feels like this sometimes.

It feels like. Yeah. And I'm going to say something that's going to sound mean, but I want you to hear me saying it. I'm saying it with you, not at you, okay? Okay. If you don't process, if you don't share with somebody or a couple of people, what's been inside your chest for all this time, and forget all the hormones and the up and down and you're, you know, I mean, all that chaos. If you don't share that, it forms like a film between you and your baby. Okay.

Between you and your husband, between you and the outside world. And most of the time when I say that, people know exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah. I guess part of like why I don't talk about it a lot is I feel like a little bit of, I don't, I don't know if it's like, shamed. shame or that like there's something wrong with me that I cannot keep babies healthy or

I get that I can't experience that with you but I remember holding somebody one time who said I feel like my body is killing babies and that's when it's when it hit me how heavy the grief was. No, don't be sorry. I'll just sit here with you.

I need you to know that factually, that's not true, but right now that doesn't matter. But what I will tell you is holding it in and not wanting to say it out loud because of the fear that it might be true, man, that's going to bury you on the inside. Okay? Yeah.

There's a million different variables and factors as to pregnancy loss and NICU and all sorts of stuff. Yeah. And I understand, like, the medical, you know, aspect of it. No, no, no, that doesn't matter. I'm talking about the spiritual side, the emotional side, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's okay that you're having those feelings, is what I'll tell you. I'll tell you they're not right, but it doesn't matter. Yeah. But one of the greatest things about being married to somebody, if you trust, and he's a good man. Is that so?

Yes. Okay. Yeah, he's a great man. Okay. Then let him do what he said he would do when y'all got married, which is carry this with you. Don't rob him of a chance to love you well and carry some of these cinder blocks that you got inside of you right now. Okay. Yeah.

I mean, like, sometimes I feel like he kind of knows something is going on. He does. And yet, he doesn't know what it is, and so he blames himself. And so if he's safe, invite him in. And tell him I can't carry this. Yeah, he always tells me I don't talk to him or I don't tell him stuff. Well, you don't. He's right.

I don't even know where to start. Start with... I keep going back to that ride home from the hospital when we lost Gabriel. I never fully processed that, and I want you to do something with me. Do you love me, and will you do this with me? And he'll say, of course, anything. And then say, I want you to write a letter to Gabriel about how you didn't get to be his dad, and it makes you sad. and I'm going to write a letter to Gabriel

and we're going to read it to each other. And we're going to have, even if it's a short moment, we're going to have a moment together where we honor the loss in our house. Yeah. And then I want to tell you about how scary it was having my baby taken from me

and immediately run out of the room and put on a bunch of machines and I didn't even get to hold my kid. Yeah. and you can ask him tell me about what that was like for you and these are deeply painful deeply intimate conversations that if you'll handle with care and you're curious with each other and what i mean by curious is if someone says oh my gosh i didn't know you were carrying that tell me more about that versus that ain't true forget that let's go watch a game right

if people are curious and they don't judge each other yeah this can be one of the most unifying things you'll ever experience. But I promise you secrets will kill you. And I don't, you know what, you're tough. I don't think they're going to kill you. I think they're just going to put a glass film between you and everyone who loves you. Your daughter, your husband, your family,

and it will feel lonely inside that glass prison because you'll see everybody and they'll smile and they'll try to reach in there and hold you and they can't get through. and you're going to want somebody just to smash that glass. The problem is it's locked on the inside. And you have to open it. And opening it means you're going to feel all this stuff again,

but this time we're going to feel it with the purpose of letting it move through us. And then tell your husband, I know with all your guts you want a second kid, you probably want a third and a fourth kid. No chance, buddy. But I know you want a second kid. Right now this is all so heavy on me. I'm going to put this little star on the calendar

you pick the weekend place that we're going to go or even the morning like the half day I want you to take off of work and we'll go talk about on this day but I just need a few months to heal and grief before I can clear my mind because right now I bet your your five-month-old daughter feels really

burdensome and heavy and exhausting in a year man some of that stuff really can start to change it's been a big time honor that you were honest and brave with me I know you haven't said a lot of this stuff out loud and I'm grateful that you spent some time with us today

you call anytime if your husband wants to call I'd love to talk to him and I'll dedicate this segment to little Gabriel and for the time he got to spend with you and all that time got to cut short. Thanks for a call, sister.

All right, we are way into the fall season now headed right towards Christmas and winter. This season is chaotic. We got stuff going on with family, school, work, holidays, everyone I know is rattling around the edges. And in this season that already trends towards anxiety and exhaustion, sleep is more critical than ever. And that's why I'm always telling you about Helix,

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right here on this show. With Helix, Better Sleep starts right now. All right, something cool that happened. What is it, Kelly? All right. This is from Autumn and she writes. My husband and I are huge fans of your podcast. We listen to your podcast during the day while I'm home with the kids and he's at work. We then come together and discuss it. It always brings up the best conversations and has really helped us grow in our communication skills with one another. Really encouraged us to talk to our oldest son who is not biologically mine. My husband had him with his high school girlfriend at 19. We have full custody, but he still goes on visits with his bio mom twice. a month. I've always wanted to talk with him openly about how his life started, but we never knew how to approach it. We sat down with him first to explain sex and openly talked with him about that. He's 11, by the way. We talked about the science behind conception. He was very thankful that we explained it to him, and now we have open conversations about it often. He knows he can ask us a question about it. It's not awkward. It's been a huge blessing. After we laid that foundation,

we explained to him the start of his life. We could not emphasize enough how loved he is and how he was chosen. I explained to him that he will always be my first when we had our daughter, which was technically my husband and I's first, when the doctor handed her to me, I thought, I hope I can love her as much as I love him. His response was everything to us. It has blown us away. He got very emotional and started crying. He explained that he was so overwhelmed with how much we love him. He expressed how thankful he was that we kept him safe and gave him such a good, loving, caring home and foundation. His biological mom has a lot of mental issues,

and when he was a baby, she was put in a mental institution. That's why we have full custody. We told him everything about what happened, so there's no missing puzzle pieces for him. You could see the weight lifted off of his shoulders. Kids do not come with instruction manuals, and when you go through hard things such as a 19-year-old, which my husband did,

you never know how to approach things to make your kid better and not bitter. I just wanted to express our gratitude. You do make a difference in people's lives. Your job is not easy, even though you carry it well. I know it can be very heavy. Thank you to Dr. John and team. We are thankful.

I'm not even going to say anything after that. I'm just going to accept that and be really grateful. That's awesome. That's one of those ones that gives me light at the end of the tunnel when things are smoky and dark outside. Awesome. What was her name? Autumn. Thank you for writing in, Autumn.

you just made my whole my whole week. Blessing to see you. See you guys.