The Dr. John Delony Show - My Wife Left the Church (and Wants Me to Leave Too)

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

On today’s episode, we hear about: ·       A husband struggling to navigate his wife’s decision to leave their church ·       A man wondering what boundaries to set in place with his mom ·       A woman frustrated by her adult brother who refuses to clean up after himself Next Steps:📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test  📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future  ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭 John's Free Guided Meditation  🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at Bon Charge. 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth.  🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi.  💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne. 🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights   🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My wife let me know that she no longer wanted to attend the church that we've been going to. I just feel like she might share those same feelings towards me, right, that she has in this former church of ours that is a negative experience for her. The words coming out of my mouth are going to be harsh. I want you to know I'm sitting right here with you, okay? What's up, what's up, what's up, this is John with the Dr. John Delaney show coming to you live with a world on fire Trying to be a voice of compassion and reason

in a world obsessed with just screaming at everybody. And it feels like all the grownups are sitting in the sandbox throwing sand at each other and saying, I'm gonna take my ball and go home. And the rest of us are trying to figure out how to pay for eggs and try to keep our kids safe and trying to figure out what AI means. Like we're just trying to figure out how to do life,

how to be married anymore. And so cutting through all the noise, getting in under the smoke and sitting with you here, just pull up a chair, trying to figure out what's the next right move for your marriage, your mental and emotional health for 20 plus years, more than two decades now. I've been sitting with hurting people, regardless of what's going on. I've literally sat in people's front yard and held them while we watched their house burned down. Sometimes I feel like that's what we're doing.

That's what I'm gonna do on the show. I'm gonna sit with you and help you figure out what's the next right move for you, for your family, for your kids, for your friends, wherever you find yourself. If you want to be on the show, I'd love to have you. JohnDoloney.com slash ask. We used to have a toll free number and then the youths were like, what's toll free mean? And what's a phone? We talk into it.

So anyway, just go to the website, johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K, and you can fill out the form. It goes right to her highness, Kelly, and she puts together the show. And if she picks you, she'll holla back girl at you, even though she ain't a holla back girl. Let's go to Atlanta, talk to Steven with a pH, the way it's supposed to be. What's up, Steven. Hey John, thanks for taking my call. Yeah. So, um, uh, had a real tough year this past

year. Um, my wife and I are struggling through a transition and we're trying to understand, uh, what can I do next? Um, so about a year a year ago, my wife let me know that she no longer wanted to attend the church that we've been going to for the entirety of our marriage. How long is that? 12 years. What have been going to this? Go ahead. Oh yeah.

So we've been going to this church heavily involved. It's been a bedrock of our lives and our marriage and our kids. And then she said, you know, that's no longer something she wanted to do. And it took a minute for me to kind of accept that. And really now where I'm struggling is trying to, I'm wrestling with the fact

that she has such a negative viewpoint of a former church of ours, and is still very much involved in seeking out others who kind of share in that negative viewpoint. And I can't help think that she might some way look down on me because I haven't seen the same viewpoint that she has or, you know, it isn't a,

I just feel like she might share those same feelings towards me, right? That she has of this former church of ours that is a negative experience for her. How is she articulated, or what is she articulating specifically about why she left that church, why she wants to disassociate herself from it? I think a lot of it came from what she viewed as how people were treated. I didn't see the same things that she saw, but there was a very conservative viewpoint. So were these women, were these gay and lesbian folks, were these children, were these like...

Yeah. I think she's had a really hard time with what she perceived how women were treated. And I can sympathize with that, but I didn't see the same thing. I'm obviously not a woman, so I didn't see those things. I didn't experience those things, but I didn't see her point of view. Um, and now I, I struggle with the fact that, uh, because I didn't come with her or see the same things that she saw, uh, you know, she might look down on me for that. So I'm going to change the language here. So um, sure.

The words coming out of my mouth are going to be harsh. I want you to know I'm sitting right here with you. I'm using your experience to speak to a broader audience listening. Is that cool? Yeah. Do it. Okay. So I want you to stop referring to your wife's lived experience as her quote unquote point of view.

A point of view is an opinion on what I would call a benign topic or a, it could be a malignant topic. That's probably the wrong word there, but I have a point of view on whether my old beat up Tundra is a good truck. And somebody else may have a point of view that that truck is not good. Right? Your wife has a lived experience. And what I have learned over the years is my opinion over what another person is experiencing inside their body and in their chest doesn't matter.

What matters is that when somebody says, here's how I experience this thing, that I pull up a seat and say, tell me more. Well, I'm sorry that it hurts like this. And as you said, you said it well I I don't have your same experience a Good example is I don't think I'm a loud tall tattooed up Six foot two male that trained with professional fight team for several years. Mm-hmm. It doesn't I don't think twice about walking through a

a parking garage. My wife can't breathe. Right? And so if when she tells me, when she gets in the car and exhales, I'm like, what are you doing? Well, she wouldn't do it with me. But if she gets in a car and says, hey, I just wanted to tell you, I just got in the car after I would be like, what are you talking about? You know, there's got in the car after, I would be like, what are you talking about? You know there's no crimes in this. Like I would start going at her as though it was her viewpoint, as though I'm arguing about the shocks on my truck. It's a good truck.

It's got 200,000 miles, but it's a good engine. And that I would be approaching it there instead of listening and saying, hey, that walk from here to there, I am a 115 pound, five foot four female. Anybody, a middle schooler can take me down, right? Like there's just a different lived experience. And so it's pulling up a seat and saying, I don't have that lived experience, I would love to hear more.

That's number one, okay? Now, for those people who are banging on the dashboard of their car or getting mad at me about to skip this call, I wanna call out. You can have a lived experience and choose to pull yourself out of that lived experience. But when you choose to seek out other people and based in it, just sit in it like it's a hot tub

and gossip about it and write about it and scream about it, just sit in it like it's a hot tub and gossip about it and write about it and scream about it. Not as though we're trying to change the lived experience, but as though our identity is now in not solving a problem, not helping the women who are there, but just then that's unhelpful too. Right? And so I think it's right to say, hey, honey, I blew this.

You came to me a year ago and said, this is what you were feeling inside your own chest. And I tried to come at you with a graph and a spreadsheet. I'm sorry. That's not what you were saying. You were saying you were going to a church that for a decade and a half, you didn't feel heard, you didn't feel seen, you felt used, whatever words she's used,

right? And those are just words I've heard of women in certain churches. I didn't hear you. I'd love to hear your experience. That's number one, okay? And you will never be able to feel her lived experience because many churches were made for you and me. They weren't made for our wives, right? In fact, the opposite. So we have that conversation, right? The second one is then her choosing to go back and drink poison, hoping somebody else dies is of no value to your home. And so that's a thing that she can opt out of, right?

Yeah. Unless she wants to start a, like a recovery, like if she wants to put some action into the world to make the world a better place, great. If she wants to be a part of protests in front of the church, great. But just sitting around gossiping and complaining about it is in and of itself its own problem.

You get what I'm saying? Yeah. Tell me about the story you've created that now she thinks you are one of those guys. Is that true? Or is that just a story you're telling yourself? I'm you know, it's it's very likely a story. I'm just telling myself. Have you asked her?

Yes. What'd she say? That no, she doesn't think that. I, but yeah, I guess it's a story I'm telling myself. that no, she doesn't think that. But yeah, I guess it's a story I'm telling myself. I can't rational, and this is maybe a problem of my own, but I can't rationalize the thought process of having all of this negativity towards something, this church that I'm a part of necessarily.

And how could she not share that with towards me? But as you said, she has said she doesn't, but I just, I can't get over that story that I'm telling myself that it's, she's linking that with me as well. Gotcha. So here's how I'd approach this in my house. And by the way, my wife went to church

for years without me. I didn't believe in the whole thing. I blew the whole thing off. Yeah. And then when we had kids, when Hank came along, my son came along, I wasn't fully there yet. I wasn't all the way back. And I went because I didn't wanna be that dad

who stayed at home while his wife and their kid went to church. So I just went. And that ended up being my path back, which was good. There's been seasons when I went to a different church because sometimes I don't want to be... I'm on a Sunday morning and I don't have the stomach for someone just to get up there and yell at me or lecture me. stomach for someone just to get up there and yell at me or lecture me. And I have found amazing peace walking into an ornate Catholic church and just listening to the singing and the chanting and the exhale and the ritual of it. And I'm not Catholic, right? And there's been other times when, fill in the blank, fill in the blank, I need a group of guys

and we all go sit in the woods and we sit around camp like so whatever the thing is, all I have to say is this, a really important exercise when it comes to faith and theology and spirituality and all those things, whatever words you want to use there is for married couples to sit down and have the values and beliefs conversation. You ever heard me talk about this? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay, so sitting down and saying, okay, as for us in our household, we believe in a higher power. We believe in God, we believe in Jesus,

we believe in boot, like whatever you wanna say as for us, this is where we are putting an anchor in. And then when it comes to how that is lived out, I want my wife to have different beliefs than me. It makes things more, it makes things less convenient, but I'm not, I don't wanna have a life at the end of, I don't wanna die and be like, man, my life was really convenient.

I wanna have a life where I felt like I was sharpened as sharp as I could be. And that comes from sitting with people who have different thoughts and ideas and whatever. And somebody's always gonna have to exhale when they walk into a church. I don't like the band, I don't like the singer, I don't like the preacher, I don't like the Sunday school.

That's just life, right? Yeah. And you go and you make that part of your life. So having that conversation could be really instructive. Yeah, no, and I'll say, I've been wanting to have that conversation. Quite honestly, I've been scared to up until now, just because every conversation around those sorts of topics

has been a struggle for us. Tell me about the struggle. I think I have just viewed the conversations as, you know, because I see her in this, seeking the poison, as you were alluding to, every conversation has been a negative conversation of and and maybe that's the problem maybe that's what I need to do is really approach it as where do we have common ground and that's

one thing I haven't we haven't done yet or choose this frame, okay? So if you, is there any chance you're all gonna get divorced? No, I mean, we really don't want to. We've been saying that from the beginning that no, that's not an avenue we wanna try. Okay, so let's- We wanna make this work. Let's assume that we're making this thing work. There's no exit ramp, there's no off ramp, okay?

Yes. So, if you were to take her out and say, I wanna take you out to a long breakfast tomorrow morning. And she said, okay. And you sat down and you said, I blew it. What are you talking about? I blew it.

What? And I don't know how often you say, I'm sorry, or I was wrong. Some men say it a lot, some men never say it. So you may I don't know how often you say, I'm sorry, or I was wrong. Some men say it a lot, some men never say it. So you may blow her mind just saying that, or that may be something she hears regularly. But if you say, you came to me 10 years ago, you came to me five years ago, you came to me two years ago,

and you were telling me about a lived experience as a woman, and I came at you with a Bible verse and a chart and a graph. I didn't listen to you and I blew it. I'm sorry. A, once she picks her jaw off the floor, if you then followed up with, I came at you with judgment on your ideas, on your thoughts, et cetera. And I just want to be curious,

would you honor me by just letting me sit here and listen to your lived experience? And you may have heard all this before, but her spirit might be one of not trying to convince you, but it might be one of talking with you, not at, but with. And then when you have this conversation, it might be 10 minutes, it might be two hours,

if you ask yourself curious questions, ask her curious questions, why also tell me about that? Like, how does that feel? Like when this happened, like what was going through your mind? You must have felt so lonely with me sitting there just going, yeah. Have that conversation. This is the old, do your best to walk a mile in her shoes.

At the end of the conversation, say, I've got something that's weighing on me is it okay? Is this a good time for me to bring it up? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I recognize that I didn't hear you and your lived experience and yet I feel like this bad experience you've left it, but you took pictures of it, not pictures

like photographs, but you took pictures of it like water and you put it in a fridge and you just drink it every morning. Is there, could we come to an agreement that this season of our life is over and I'm going to do a better job of listening to your lived experiences and I want us both to agree to stop drinking poison hoping somebody else changes their behavior. Yeah. And you get the whole tenor that thing shifts. And that's not mean you may not agree with the way she's interpreting scriptures. You may not agree when she says here's my experience, you may be like, I don't get that at all. It's bro, it's a parking garage.

Only in horror movies, is there somebody with a hat? It doesn't matter. Because I'm not five four, right? I'll never know that experience. But what I can say is as for us, do we still both believe in God? Yes. Do we still both believe in the practice

of getting up most of the time and going to a third place, to church, to say hi to other hurting people and say us too, right? Do we still believe in that? Cool. Then let's figure out what box we wanna walk into. And let's do that one together. And then you brother, you're gonna have to grieve, man.

You had a decade and a half with the church. And you may find that it was really formative for you, it was not formative for her. Sure. And that's just the whole thing is just humbling, right? Yeah, absolutely. Well, hope for you all is that y'all spend some time in tears together and that you are honest about I'm going to start trying to hear for your lived experience. I'm going to trust you because I'm not in your skin. I'm not in your body. I trust your lived experience and that if you need my help or you want my opinion on something you'll ask me and that you know that I'm never going to give up on you.

I'm never going to give up on this marriage. So I'm here, I'm here. I'd love to hear what happens, man. Let us know. Thanks for the call, my brother. All right, when we come back, we talk to a woman who is in shock over her mother-in-law's decisions.

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when you lock in your plan, plus 14 days of free training. Go to trainwell.net slash Duloney right now. That's T-R-A-I-N, trainwell.net slash Duloney. Orlando, Florida. Let's talk to Amber. What's up Amber? Hi, how are you doing? I am trying to figure out what day it is.

I hope you're doing well. Hang on here. I'm gonna bring in your husband, Daniel. Let's see, Daniel in the lions den. What's up Daniel? Hey, how are you doing John? I'm doing fantastic. All right, so which one of you, Amber or Daniel,

which one of you sent in your question? I did, but then my husband wanted to join the call. Oh, fantastic. So he's the one that's actually gonna ask the question first. All right, I love it. Let it rip. Okay, so some little backstory here.

My stepfather, he passed away very unexpectedly back in January 24. I'm sorry, dude. Yeah, thank you. What was his name? JC. JC. Good guy?

Yeah. He was good. He was strong. That's awesome. I'm sorry about your loss, man. I'm glad you had to spend part of your life with him. Sounds like JC was loss, man. I'm glad you had to spend part of your life with him. Sounds like, it sounds like JC was a good man.

Thank you. Thank you. You know, so my mom started going on like dates with different men like about three months after he had passed. Oh wow. dates with different men like about three months after he had passed. Oh, wow. You know, one of those men, what she is now dating was my stepfather's old friend back like in high school.

So but the real shocker is, is that he's married and it's kind of been, been tough going with that. So how do we set boundaries with that? Golly. Okay. So tell me, JC passed away when? Back in January of last year. Okay. So it's been about a year, but three months after he passes, your mom's hitting the market already. Yeah. How old is she?

She's 58. That feels fast, man. Yeah. What were their conversations like? I mean, I don't want to judge anybody's grief. Everybody does grief different, but just if somebody were to call me I would say take six months before you hop in anything. What were the conversations like when you found out she was already dating again? Oh boy. So, it was kind of... Excuse me.

So, I would kind of hear it from my sister. And my older sister knows my mom the most. And now I'm starting to see my mom in a different light because she has, um, has done this habitual, has done this habitually, um, in her past with actually my dad. And that's how I got my stepfather. Oh, she cheered on your bio, your bio dad. Yeah. Ah, okay.

And, um, when did they divorce? When did they divorce? So when I was maybe like, I don't know, maybe like six, maybe closer to 10 around that range. Who were you most angry at during the divorce? Did you know about your mom back then or did you blame dad? I did not. I did not. And again, I see like my mom in a different light because she keeps stuff hidden from me the most instead of my sisters.

My sisters, I guess, have seen when they were growing up and in their teenage years that they, they see my mom doing all this stuff and they know and you know the kind of woman she is but with me It was like I saw her so differently and that Honestly, I was kind of like a spoiled spoiled child but See my mom in a different light. How old are you? I'm 26 So for 20 years, you didn't know that it was actually your mom that blew up your household as a little kid.

And then not only did she blow it up, she wallpapered over it with just showering you with gifts and love and affection. Are you the youngest? Yeah. Okay. Gifts and love and affection. Are you the youngest? Yeah, okay, so you were just the baby boy and Two decades later You're finding out. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. So here's what I would suggest. I would suggest if you're not there yet It may go it usually goes from disbelief like to what?

to a rage that you don't know you're gonna be able to control. Do you have any relationship with your bio dad? Yeah, yeah, we're, our relationship's good. Have you talked to him about this? For my whole life, yeah, he knows. Yeah, he knows very well. And have you all talked to him about the affair? What blew up the marriage when you

were a kid? It was, I think it was really the cheating. That's what I mean. But have you talked to your your bio dad about that? About the past is what you're saying? Yeah, about the affair and all that that caused the divorce. I guess I never have. Okay. It may be worth it. It may not be, but it may be worth it to sit down with him one day and say, Dad, this is

going to be hard for you. Will you tell me the story of what happened when I was four, five and six? I'm finding stuff out about mom and my sisters are telling me stuff. I just like, what happened? And he may say, you know what, bygones are bygones. I don't wanna go back through all that stuff. You don't need to hear that. I'm not gonna talk bad about your mom, yada yada.

He may do all that and would be honorable and cool. Or he may say, hey, yeah, I'll tell you. So Amber, hearing this, what's going through your mind? Why did you initially reach out? Just because we are trying to figure out what kind of boundaries to set with her. And I see it's really making my husband struggle. He doesn't really know what to do.

He's trying to lead us in the best way, but doesn't really know what that relationship looks like now with her. What do y'all want it to look like? Nothing, we're not sure. I mean, so I've got friends that make decisions in their lives values-wise and beliefs-wise very different than me. They're still my friends, right?

I still love them, I still love their kids, I still love their husbands and their wives. Like, I care about them, but very, very different lives. And there's people who just make decisions that I'm like, hey, I'm distancing myself from that. And all of that's more complicated because this is Daniel's mother, right? This is your mother-in-law, it makes it hard.

But can y'all go with a straight face while she's dating a married man? Or is that one where you guys are drawing a line? If my dad died, I'm just trying to put myself in your position, if my dad died and in three months from now my mom was dating one of his friends who was still married, yeah, I'd have a real problem with that. I just think character still means something. I think integrity still means something.

Yeah, I agree. You know, there's been times where I've gone with my older sister and we've talked to her about how we feel and it's like she kind of brushes it off and there's been some hurt that she's actually expressed her you know her true feelings like and I'm just gonna sum it up like you know I don't care what you guys think and I'm just gonna do what I want to do okay so and it's all on don't don't blow over that in many ways that's all you need to know In many ways, that's all you need to know. Hey, mom, you're making decisions that are going to have ramifications for you, for our family and I know you're lonely and you're heartbroken.

All these things. Me and my sister, you raised us better than this. She looks at you and says, I don't give a crap what you say. I'm gonna do whatever I want. What she's telling you is I don't want your opinions. I don't want your judgments. I don't want anything. And so what she is also saying is if a value or a boundary you and Amber have is that I'm a person of good moral character

and I don't sleep with your, my ex-husband's married friend, then I'm opting out of hanging out with you guys. I don't want to be with you then. Yeah, that's exactly where I am. Yeah. Then I'm opting out of hanging out with you guys. I don't want to be with you then. That's exactly where I am. Yeah. You brother have to deal with the heartbreak that your mom is choosing that over her son, over her daughters, over her grandkids.

Yeah. Yeah. And then you got to realize, oh, she did this when I was six years old. And that's just heartbreaking, man. And Amber, there's few things harder than a wife sitting by a heartbroken husband and just being present with him. Yeah, for sure. That's heartbreaking. I mean, there's no easy path through that other than doing a really hard thing. I know a lot of women are like, man, I wish my husband was more vulnerable. And then when moments like this come, it's really hard to sit in that glow, right?

In that vulnerable glow. It's scary. And you choose to be uncomfortable and lean into that and sit close to him. And it just stinks for a while. It just sucks. And then Daniel, you and Amber decide, y'all get to decide together what does moving forward mean? Does this mean as long as she is continuing to have a sexual relationship with a married

man, we're not going to go to Christmas at her house. Wow, that's crazy that you say that, dude. Ha ha ha. Why is that? That's exactly how I feel. Well, put it down on paper. Sit down and say it out loud to your wife. And I think, here's the thing.

I think the conversation, I think your feelings towards, I don't wanna be around my mom, I don't wanna go to Christmas, it's easy to double click on her particular action in this moment. And if she was to call my show, this is gonna sound crazy, I would be super compassionate to her.

If she just lost a 20 year marriage to a great guy, JC, and her mind just goes a little bit, and she just hits the dating market, tries to find connection, and one of the quickest ways to find connection is through quick sex. And then she finds some connection and some guy tells her, some 60 year old man

tells her some bill of goods about how he's, not really divorced, but they've been separated for a long time. And my wife didn't understand me like you understand me. And it just feels good to be in somebody's arms three months after, like I get that. I would tell her, hey, you're about to blow up everything, but I wouldn't be mad at her.

I would be heartbroken with her, right? But I want you to hear what I think you're really heartbroken about, is your mom looked at you and said, I don't care about you. And I think that's why you don't want to go spend Christmas with her. Or I do care about you, but I care about you on my terms but this one's a this one's a tough one this one's an odd mix of a grieving widow compassion and Grief doesn't give us license just to blow up other people's lives and blow up our lives and to make really awful decisions

It's a tough season. At the end of the day, Ember and Daniel, what y'all can control is y'all and the house y'all want to create. So sit down and spend some time grieving that together. The picture you had of life with JC, life with your mother, life with them being great grandparents,

because that picture's gone now. And let's be about seeing and imagining a new picture. Thanks for the call, guys. All right, when we come back, we talk to a woman who is wrestling with her roommate's disgusting habits. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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easily for no extra cost. Listen, we're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney. All right, Albany, New York. Let's talk to Nicole. Hey, Nicole, what's up? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm doing great. Thanks for hopping on last minute this morning. How are you? Yeah, of course I'm doing great. Good deal. So

what's up? How can I help? Um, so I live with my brother. Um, and yeah, So I live with my brother. Awesome. Yep. I'm 24. He's 21. Gross. So how do I manage that he has a higher tolerance to filth than I do? And how can I avoid holding resentment towards my mom for raising us differently?

No, no, no, no leave your mom out of this. I mean if you're mad at your mom, okay 21 year olds are disgusting Yeah, they're just gross Now there's a whole group of 21 of 30 year old men listening this being like, uh-uh I was clean when I was, okay, good, great. Most of us were disgusting. My wife, every time she sees my roommate when I was 21, I was a coach and a high school teacher, and he's still a great friend,

one of my closest friends, his name's Tucker. He was a salesman there in Houston. We lived together. My wife still credits him with raising me because he was actually clean and I was disgusting. Like I was, dude, I was feral. My mom raised a good kid. She did her best.

I was just gross. And I've been around enough 21 year old, like 21, they're just gross. Just is. Yeah. So let's deal with that problem. So when you, and by the way, how did he phrase it so delicately? How did you phrase it? He has a higher tolerance for film.

Higher tolerance to film. Yeah. Well, I just think he knows that like, if he doesn't take care of it for long enough that I eventually will get sick of it. You're giving him way too much credit. Yeah. It doesn't even enter his mind. Yeah.

In college, when I was 21, my roommates and I, we just go to Goodwill and buy new dishes. Oh goodness, really? Yeah, cause it was $ dollars for like a stack of plates And that was instead of cleaning them. Yep But didn't you have to clean them after you got the don't even know if we set them outside like like you like And when I think back to that that's absurd that's insane that's wasteful it's gross it's all those things

Yeah, the alternative never occurred. I'm not claiming that. Let's just go get some. Four bucks. And by the way, we had no money. We're like splitting nickels in quarters. It just seemed like a better use of our time. Yeah.

Yeah. You're giving him way too much credit. It was like four or five years into me being married before my wife was like, oh, you don't see that pile of clothes. And I was like, oh, you don't see that pile of clothes. And I was like, what? In the same way, I would be like, hey, you don't see that sketchy guy that just came in with your back turned to the rest. Like, I see him.

Yeah. And so it's just like, I guarantee you, he doesn't see it. I can't guarantee it. Let me say this way. I mean, either he's a terrible human being and he's just doing this to stress out a sister, which is a whole other issue, or I can take the high road here and just assume he's like most other 21 year olds and he just go bebopping through life and he didn't even notice it. Well, I think it's true that he doesn't notice it, but that's just frustrating for me because

I feel like I'll ask him to do something and then he outright refused and he'll say, because I didn't say please, but I'll say to him like, how many times have I done it without being asked and I don't get a thank you. Oh gosh, because he's trying to say, Hey, you're just my bratty older sister and you're trying to say, no, no, no, in this environment, I'm your mother. And those, that tension is not going to work. So at some point you have to sit down and say, hey, I've been trying to be your mom.

I'm not going to be your mom anymore. I'm not going to be our mom anymore. I'm your sister. And for this to work out for both of us, I need your help cleaning stuff up. And sometimes I'll say, please just know I'm always grateful, but we've got to do this together. And I'm sorry for acting like your mom Yeah, and he'll probably go, okay And that's sometimes 21 year old male way of saying I'm sorry too

Or you can say you have to say the words. I'm sorry also Right or whatever, but he's being a little brother Just imagine y'all are six and 10. That same dynamic never changes. You know what I mean? Yeah. It just is. And so just call it out and put on the table.

Yeah. I mean, it's just, you know, he still calls my mom up and she'll say that I'm being mean to him. And she has always said that your whole life. Why would you expect it to change now? Well, because we don't live with her and I don't see why he has to call her, but I guess, you know, if she's taken aside.

A little mama's boy. Yeah. Okay, so let me ask you the bigger question. Why are you living with him? Well, okay, so he was, it's a long question. Why are you living with him? Well, okay. So he was, it's a long story. My stepdad and him kind of butted heads and not because he was like trying to do anything wrong, but because he's a bit more of a controlling guy, my stepdad. And I was always fine with him. He wasn't, he didn't have a problem with me because I kind of, I kind of read the room and understood my place

in the household and just cleaned up after myself, stayed in my room, kind of did my own thing until I was able to move out. Okay. So let me change the language a little bit. Your body went to flight and your brothers with a non-biological male, two bulls in a China shop, one old bull and one young bull, he went to fight. Both of you experienced the trauma of having another man tell y'all how to live your life.

You chose safety through making sure everybody was at peace and you knew how to play the system and get out of the way. Yeah. And he did not. One isn't the better. They're both trauma responses. One's going to get somebody broken bones and black eyes, but that doesn't make it any better or worse. Yeah. Well, that's why we had to move out because he essentially told us both at the same time that we had to go because he really essentially told us both at the same time that we had

to go because he really wanted my brother out. So my brother couldn't afford the rent on his own, which is why I kind of stepped in and said- I disagree. Yeah? Yeah. Okay. Your brother's had somebody bail him out of his whole life.

Yeah. And that's not a bad thing. Little kids need to be bailed out. Little kids need to be bailed out. Young boys need to be bailed out. They're still kids. He's 21. In reality, you just hit him upside the head. It's a harsh reality for 21 year old boys, but it did.

And you took on a maternal role. Yeah. Which is, kudos to you. That's an awesome big sister, but he needs to know his place in this world. I took you in, you have to play a role in this house. And that means keeping things clean, taking care of business. And by the way, you got eight months, you got six months, and then you got to get your own place.

And those are just hard conversations, but the greatest gift you can give him is confidence that he can stand up on his own two feet. Because what we don't want is him to be like the millions of unmarried men in this country who are 26 years old and have no skills, no anything. They don't shower, they don't go to work, they don't do anything. Yeah, I do worry about that a lot. Okay, so instead of being his mother You can be his loving sister

Mm-hmm, and you've got three years in quote-unquote real world ahead of them Yeah, you can say this house gonna go And then by the way He may make some poor choices trying to figure out His big pinballing through life because he sounds like he doesn't have a good male role model No And so he's gonna go searching for where does he fit and where does he belong and who's in his tribe and for many? 21 year old men their tribe is given to them in the form of here's who we're all gonna hate together

Yeah, and so letting him know he's got an older sister. who's not his mother, but who will always be by his side. My older sister got me through some dark times because I knew she'd always be there. My sister will storm the gates of hell on my behalf. I'm all choked up. My sister, like, heaven help the person who gets between, who hurts her younger brother. And she's not my mom. Yeah. Right? And by the way, I just want to applaud you. Thanks for picking him up. You've probably been picking him up most of his life, haven't you? Yeah. You're a good big sister. I would sit down and say, hey, we got to talk.

We're going to go chit chat. And I would tell them, hey, this is a growing up conversation for both of us. I'm no longer mom. I'm not wearing that hat anymore. I am your big sister. And I'm going to tell you some hard truth. And I will be your best advocate in this crazy world

if you want to walk with me. Yeah. I'll tell you what girls want when you're trying to date them. I'll tell you what's dumb. I'll tell you if you look good in these clothes. I'll tell you if this is a good idea for going to college. I'll walk with you. Mm-hmm.

But I'm not going to keep going into the weight room and taking the weight off the bar thinking I'm helping you get stronger. Yeah. And if you're going to live in my house, then you're going to pay rent, you're going to help clean up, we're going to have chore charts like we did when we were kids, like we're going to do things that over time make us civilized. He doesn't have a Tucker who ended up being one of the greatest gifts that I ever received

in my life. One, he was just a still great friend. He's still one of my closest friends in the world. But he just had the courage to tell me, hey, you're gross. Clean this up. Stop. Disgusting.

Why do you do that? And I was like, oh, yeah, you're right. It's repulsive. And that helped me become more maryable. And I'm grateful to him for that for every day. I assure you, my wife is too. So that's where I would start, Nicole. And man, you can go down the rabbit hole of blaming your mom for why she... I'd stay out of that for now.

You've been mad at your mom for a long long long time and I wouldn't lump that in with your challenges with your brother right now. That's between you and a therapist. Thanks for the call my sister we'll be right back. Okay it's time for a quick word about Delete Me. Does anyone else feel like our digital footprints are starting to feel more like digital trails leading people right back to us? And now scammers are using phishing attacks with a PH where they try to trick you into giving them something by pretending to know you and be your friend and be all trying to

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All right, so we got this from Jenny in New Carlyle, Ohio, and she writes, I was listening to the show, as I I always do when you were talking about if they will tell this story at my funeral. I laughed and smiled and thought, man, that is such a dad thing to say. As the mom of a four and seven year old with a husband who is always thinking of fun, I find myself being the stealer of joy. So later that week we had a ton of rain and on the way home, my husband was finding puddles to drive through as the kids were loving the splash that occurred. As we were approaching the puddle, the kids rolled down their windows, by the way, it's Kelly speaking,

that's giving me anxiety. Oh, that is making me so happy. Everything inside of me hated it, but I laughed, smiled and found joy in theirs as they stuck their heads out and were drenched by the splash. Water was all over our car, inside and out, and they asked us to do it again. We turned around multiple times during the same thing as they laughed continuously. I hope to replay that line in my head often to let go and to bring them joy, even if it is messy.

Oh, that's so good. Last night, Kelly, my daughter challenged me. This is what she called it. Dad, let's go outside yard fight. And I was like, what yard fight? She wanted to just go fight me in the front yard and I thought we're gonna get the cops called so and by the way she when she punches they are like atomic windmills they come from her soul so it's not just like patty caking it would look bad if you were driving

by and she is on top of me just raining down blows and so I got a lacrosse ball and I was like, okay, we're gonna play a game where I'm gonna throw it across the yard and then we have to sprint across the yard to get it. I haven't laughed that hard. And it was like people were driving real slow, like the neighbor's dog in the front yard was just on DEFCON high alert, just staring at us

like what's happening? I haven't laughed that hard. And we came in covered in grass. She had grass in her ears, her nose, her hair. And my wife was like, I would do anything to be challenged to a yard fight and actually wanna go out there and do that. And I'm glad that only one of us is yard fighting.

If two parents are out there, it probably wouldn't be great. But I do appreciate coming from a house where somebody, it's not their inclination, I appreciate that mother gritting her teeth and just being like, let's go again. And her thinking, I have to wash these clothes now, I gotta get new shoes, I'm gonna have to get the car cleaned. I get that, but just taking that moment.

You can't do that every day, but man, the occasional yard fight, the occasional rolling the windows down in the car wash, so good. So good. Ask yourself, will they tell this at our funeral? And if the answer is yes, it may probably ought to do it. Unless it's going to be all of y'all's funeral. The next few minutes then maybe we need an adult on scene.

Love you guys, bye.