The Dr. John Delony Show - My Wife Was Caught Embezzling Thousands

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

On today’s episode, we hear about: A husband unsure how to support his wife after she was found guilty A mom struggling to parent six young kids A dad coping with the aftermath of losing a pet Next Steps:  📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message.  📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life  📝 Anxiety Test  📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future   ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭 John's Free Guided Meditation  🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch    Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth.   Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe.  Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers!  Explore Poncho Outdoors! Get 25% off your order at Thorne.    Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Looking to find ways to support my wife through her legal trouble. Uh-oh, what happened? She worked for a group home and was found that she had stolen $15,000, and they eventually caught her. Ooh, man. Dude, I'm sorry, brother. I'm sorry to have to talk bad about somebody's wife. That's one of my core values to don't ever do that. And here we are.

What up? What up? This is John. This is John with the Dr. John Deloney's show. So glad you're here talking about your mental health and your emotional health and your relationships. Man, there's lots of places where you can go learn about things. And this show is about doing those things. Putting them into practice, real people going through real challenges. I'm going to sit with you and we're going to figure out what's the next right move. If you want to be on the show, go to John Deloney.com slash ask ASK. It's got to Toronto. Canada and talk to Chris. What up, Chris? Hey, how's it going, John? I'm good, my man. What's up? Not much. I might as well get right into things here. My question is

looking to find ways to support my wife both emotionally and to continue financially through her legal trouble. Uh-oh, what happened? You know, to cut a long story and make it short, she worked for a group home and was found and that she had stolen some money of excess of 15,000 and they eventually caught her and, yeah. Ooh, man. So what's the, like, let's go down the rabbit hole

and then we'll work back. Like, what's the ramification? What's happening? Like, they're charging her with theft over 5,000 and all that. So in Canada, she can have to do jail. time uh so doesn't seem like she's going to have to do any jail time her her lawyer's been able to to cut a deal and it seems like we're just going to have to pay uh a restitution and she may have to do some sort of community service as she's a first time offender and we have a 15 month old

and she's also eight months pregnant so i think the last thing they want to do is put her in jail yeah man so what's it like been in your home since all this came out So it's been about six months now. The first three months were a little rocky. I was having a really tough time with it emotionally because, you know, the situation, you know, not to get into it too deep there, but the situation hit really close to home. It was something that her and I were, we both believed in a lot. And, you know, I was feeling really resentful towards her for that.

And, I mean, the financial strain, you know, she unfortunately lost her job. and, you know, she had to take something minimum wage versus making good money. So our financial position definitely went down and I had to work extra hours, pick up another job while she kind of worked through it. But the last three months or so has been a little bit better, but I'm starting to feel low again. But she's not sure why because, you know, things look like they're coming up and, you know, things should be good versus not being good. so man so let me just say out of the gate um you are right you're using very kind language and so stop me if i'm putting words in your mouth okay um or not even words in your mouth

you seem like such a kind man and so i'll put these words right in the middle of your chest you're right to be furious and you're right to be embarrassed and you're right to be feel taking advantage of and like you had a you had a picture that you co-painted with somebody and without you knowing it she set fire to that picture you're allowed to be upset and heartbroken and trying to figure out what what am i going to do next okay you're not nuts and you're not a bad husband and you're not a jerk okay how much um uh let me say this way rarely this type of behavior this type of brazen stuff happens in a vacuum and here's the question is where have you seen this stuff pop up in your home over the years that you've known this person a little deception here a little

it's no big deal like where is that popped up i mean it's it's popped up in a lot of aspects of our life and i kind of you know i i definitely you know brushed it off to the side thing you know like you said no no big deal um and there's the you know the honesty was always a big thing And I always wanted to see change. And the shining light or the, you know, the light at the end of the tunnel is that, you know, this situation has brought it to, you know, she's been working on that sort of honesty, which is really good to see. But there was definitely a lot of signs beforehand that I, and I went, ah, it's okay, not a big deal, push them off to the side. Man, dude, I'm sorry, brother. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry to have to talk bad about somebody's wife. That's one of my core values. She doesn't ever do that, and here we are. And hopefully you hear me not talk about her as much as calling up behavior that's had really gnarly ramifications for you, your kids, and for her and everybody. So, man, how can I help you? What can I do for you? I'm like, I'm just trying to figure out how to navigate.

As you said, like, when the smoke clears, like, you know, there is a clear plan. It's just, you know, how do I, how do I deal with these emotions? How do I, you know, obviously, you know, day to day is great, but, you know, when I've worked, you know, five weekends in a row and, you know, I'm sitting there and I'm exhausted, I'm like, okay, like, how do I keep going? Like, I understand, like, I tell myself, it's always for the kids, it's always for my daughter and, and our next one who's on the way and all this and that, but, you know, I want to be able to, you know, strengthen my marriage with my wife, you know, given the fact that, you know, she's now seeking therapy. and all that. She's in like a 6 to 8 week program now and all that. And I just, I need to figure out how to get myself from the, you know, I don't know how to explain it. No, I got you. I got you. I want to see how far you would go. You never set it. Okay. So here's the path for you. And it's going to sound counter to what I tell most people. But this is directly for you, my brother, Chris, okay? for a season I want you to stop asking

what everybody else needs first I want you for the first time to say my name is Chris and I do have some major responsibilities in the form of two kids and in the form of a marriage that I want to rebuild from the ground up but in order to do that

your kids need to be able to anchor into concrete and you are quicksand you've had to be quicksand your whole life. Yeah. Your marriage, you took on the role of wallpaper in a house that she built. And every time you're like, hey, I don't think this goes on this wall, you just kind of looked away. And so for the first time in your life, I want you to, you have to begin to write down, get out of your head and out of your body, put it on paper for the first time. What do I want? And when you say on the fifth weekend in a row this is just for the kids this is just for the kids here's and it sounds nutty but you're

going to start to resent them they can't carry that kind of weight you have to get up on that sixth weekend and that seventh weekend and say i'm the kind of man who shows up for my family even when the house is on fire because that's who i am and the beneficiaries of that sort of rootedness will be your kids will be your new marriage you're going to rebuild but if you're always scanning the environment to see who can I go pat on the head, who can I make okay so that I have a bed to sleep in. I promise you, brother, you're going to end up right back in the same situation, except this time it's going to be with, she's going to find another guy. Yeah.

If she hasn't, if y'all haven't experienced that before. So let me ask you this. Definitely not, no. What do you want? Just from your gut, let it rip. Stability. okay how will you the boring sorry go ahead how will you my friend chris establish stability with first with chris let me ask a different honestly a problem how how will you become a man that you respect

and more importantly a man that you trust I that's yeah I I feel like it starts with you know like you said building myself from the ground up and I feel like conversations like this and being honest with myself and somebody else is where I'm going to start amen but also you're going to have to start taking action that you've never taken before and it sounds silly but this is where I'm going to go to bed at the same time and get up at the same time regardless of how i feel and i'm going to make a plan for myself and i'm i'm going to make a in concrete um commitment to myself that i'm going to do x y and z for the next 60 days for me i'm going to exercise i am going to write down on a day day-to-day basis. I am a man who, who will work seven, eight, nine, ten weekends in a row to pay off my wife's criminal behavior so that my kids have food, because that's the kind of man I am. It might be going to a gym. It might be hanging out with your friends. It might be getting some male

friends for the first time. It might be you going to see a counselor and saying, man, I need to, I need some skills to begin to practice. this asking myself what do I want and again all of this is in service to your family yeah but otherwise it becomes codependency when you need everybody to be okay and you need everybody to be not mad and you need everybody to not challenge you you end up drowning and they have nothing to anchor into oh you're too good at that wow that was that was exactly Exactly. It's really what I need to hear that, you know, stop trying to put out fires and make myself into concrete here. So the people around me have something to anchor into.

And you're going to have to come up with a series of probably three or four or what statements. Okay? Here's what I mean by that. Yeah. Yeah. If you, if we agree on a budget and you spend money out of that account, here's what the, here's what I am going to do. I'm going to leave because I don't trust you. And I'm not telling you, I'm going egregious here, so it doesn't have to be that big. But if you steal a thing again, if you lie in this home again, I am going to X, Y, or Z. If for the next six months for you to reestablish trust in your home need your own checking account, then I'm going to suggest you do that.

And I tell every couple on the planet, you've got to combine finances. But this is a moment when you have to reestablish safety and trust in your house, especially starting with you. yeah thankfully once once the the the light came out we had in the conversation and an agreement of you know we're going to have one singular checking account but she doesn't have access to it and when she needs stuff i i send it to her while we work on things so thankfully that that doesn't end up as an issue right now but i'd like to build to a point where we can get back to one shared bank account yeah you'll have to get there otherwise you become her dad yeah and you don't want to you don't want a third child

no and she doesn't she doesn't deserve that from her husband but y'all are going to have to right now it's about establishing safety and reestablishing rebuilding from the floor up trust which means you're going to have to tell her a whole bunch of things over time that you've kept quiet or shoved down for the sake of being nice for the sake of not being making things uncomfortable yeah and then you're going to have to get with a counselor of some sort of sort of men's group, a jiu-jitsu class, you're going to have to get with a group of men

and be vulnerable enough to say, I have to learn, for the first time in my life, how to stand tall and walk forward with purpose so that I can be a husband and a father and a man that other people can anchor into and that I can trust. I absolutely believe y'all can do that, but it's going to take some work. And that work for you, my brother, starts in the mirror. We come back, a mom is struggling with the guilt of not feeling grateful for yet another pregnancy. If you're looking around at the culture and you're having a hard time knowing who to look up to, I get it. There's so much noise coming from so many different directions these days and it can be hard to know who to trust.

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Michael Iskander from Amazon's hit series House of David talking about King David and many more. The Saints aren't just stories from the past. They're real life examples for living with purpose, humility, and genuine faith. So join the Saints in Seven Days Prayer Challenge on Hallow today. Right now you get three months of Hallow for free at Hallow, H-A-L-O-W, Hallow.com slash Deloni. That's three months for free at hallow.com slash Deloni. All right, let's stay right here at Nashville, Tennessee and talk to Sarah with an H. What's up, Sarah?

How are you, Dr. John? I can't believe I'm getting to talk to you. This is crazy. I can't believe I'm talking to you. It's bananas. I know. What's up? Home team.

Well, so my husband and I, we struggled with infertility for four years, and we finally had our first son, and it just was the absolute best. We ended up having another son. 18 months later, very easily, no issues there. And then we got a surprise set of twins after that. So we had all four kids within three and a half years. Holy smokes on a stick. Yeah, it was wild. But they're like the cool, full crew.

Yeah, that's good. Hey, it is, I can't even imagine the chaos in your home. I can't even imagine it. But that's going to be, they're going to be a gang, which is going to be awesome. As they get older, that's cool. Yeah, they are really cool. So life has slowed down a little bit. The twins are two and a half.

Life feels manageable. Like, my husband and I are really enjoying each other. We've got friends. We're doing house projects, all the things. And we just found out we're pregnant again with another set of twins. Another set of twins? Yep. Oh, man.

Ayo! Yeah So I am excited And I am very grateful But sometimes I feel so terrified And so overwhelmed That I don't feel grateful So how do I manage

Stay right there, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop Just stay right there Listen to me super carefully, okay? You're a good mom thank you you're a great mom thank you and you're a gangster great wife too

thanks I got a pretty gangster husband I know he's probably awesome about my talking to him I'm talking to you thank you you're a good mom and all of the emotions are right and okay

because you're also pretty good at just talking about how great things are you have four kids three boys under what six yep dude you have an like four open blenders going at every minute of the day they're pretty wild yes and having twins wrecked you physically too didn't it Yes, I remember what the end of that pregnancy was like, and we didn't even make it full term. It's a human explosion, yes. Yeah.

And the thought of going through that again is your right to, every feeling you have is right. Just know that there are so many people that want to be in our shoes. I know. I've been through the years of, I've been to the years of infertility, too. You're having twins for the second time, even though you don't have to say this, I'll say it, that wasn't planned.

And quote unquote, we didn't want this, but we got it. That's okay too. And you're the kind of people that are going to raise two more amazing twins. You're going to be that couple

that everyone, you're going to have to get a special van. You're all going to be van people now, right? Yeah. You're going to have everybody being like, oh you know how that happens you're like yep i do i asked that one time as a joke and a guy like he responded in such a graphic way i've never asked that question again i was trying to be funny and i was like oh gosh i was like bro how that happened and whoa whoa but like that's just

it's going to be it you know it's coming right yeah well we tell people we yeah and we like it clearly well we're good at it ta-da but listen you're you're you're you're Your upcoming joy is not at the expense of your friends, my friends, all of our listeners' friends who are struggling with infertility. It's not like there's a finite number of babies to be born and somehow you got them and somebody else didn't. Yeah. And so I know that feeling is real and you have, you remember,

just like I do, I remember walking down the hallway of my house and looking to a room that was supposed to be a freaking nursery and it wasn't. Yeah. And I remember watching, it felt like every 17-year-old being like, oh my gosh, I don't know how this happened. And I'm like, I do know how it happened. And it felt like everybody was pregnant, and it wasn't happening for us. Yeah.

I remember that emptiness and that I get it. And those feelings were right too then. And it's right to go back to them and remember that pain. But also, man, they're coming, right? And you and your husband have stepped up to the play. will again and you'll have just more people in your gang right yeah it's just a lot it's a lot of kids listen we love them you stop stop no more qualifying you feel like you have to like put that tag on like but we like them and i'm gonna be a good mom and my husband's great you don't have to

add that everyone can see you and know that you get to say all that you get to say all say it for you you get to go this sucks i finally got my body back me and my husband are finally figuring out like how to squeeze in nine minute like you want to right now because that's all the time you have with four kids under six you're finally figuring it out and now the whole thing's going to explode again right it's okay to grieve what it was at the same time celebrating what is yeah all of it's okay yeah i just you know it's also you know it's also scary because i want to be everything you know not everything i want to meet all their needs and they only have one mom and i only have one dad what needs do you think you're not going to be able to meet

i don't know like one of our sons he just he it seems like he just needs our time and he just lights up when he gets even just a few minutes of one-on-one time. And so I'm scared I'm not going to be able to meet that. You know, we even, like I was telling Alex, he asked if we had financial concerns. And we do, but it's more, like, I have to be patient because we're not going to take out any debt. We drank the Ramsey Kool-Aid a long time ago. So we're going to build onto our house, but it's going to take time. So it's just a lot of things just feel up in the air.

and I like things to be on paper so I can check them off and with six kids I don't think that I don't think there's going to be a lot of things running smoothly for a little bit let me just clarify it there will be zero things running smoothly none none none and often the needs we project on our kids

are the needs that we thought we needed or that we did need when we were kids and so let your kids have their childhood it's theirs it's not a replay of yours and so if you constantly think or still thinking or still wishing all he wanted was to be seen in my own house growing up i just wanted my mom or my dad to cuddle up and watch a bluey episode with me and they were too busy doing x y or z or i don't know your childhood at all And I'm making some big leaps here But most of the time when we the fears we have with our kids

Are the same fears we experienced And so your kids aren't ever going to know those They're going to have different ones And I'll just say you from the from the clenched fist right now You're going to mess stuff up And a house with 500 people in it like yours Your kids are going to wonder What would it be like just for us to just be two of us

And I'll tell you I have two kids and my son regularly asks, Dad, why didn't we have seven? Right? So every kid is going to wonder what the other life was like and that doesn't mean their needs aren't being met.

You and your husband are going to give them a picture of two people who love each other. You and your husband are going to give them a picture of two parents with firm values, whether that's,

we're going to have a great marriage, we're not going to borrow money, we're going to go to church, we're not going to go to church. I don't know what y'all's values are, but you're going to give your kids that picture. you're going to give your kids food and water and a place to sleep even if three of them have to share a room

right and so your needs are going to their needs are going to be met what might not be met is the fantasy you had or the picture you painted in your mind because you're already projecting 30 years down the road about those maybe we can have a twin wedding that'd be so it's not going to happen like that but like you've already thought through all those things and the real thing to grieve here is the picture of what you thought your life was going to look like because otherwise you're going to try to shove these two new kids in that old picture and they're not going to fit and so if you can you can imagine just taking your arm to a table with like a big monopoly board that you've mapped out here's how this is going to go and just swiping it clean and looking at this awesome husband of yours and be like well we got to make new plans

by the way the plans are going to be a disaster they're not going to work but it'd be the like you don't you don't use like cocaine or you don't drink too much you make plans that's your drug and that's great make make plans right just hold them really loosely yeah and never forget you're a great mom thank you and great moms are allowed to be like oh my gosh why do we do this right why couldn't have i had a headache that night why couldn't you right i mean like it's okay to think those things yeah what else you still seem heavy oh that's not a thing to say to a mother pregnant with twins. I didn't mean like that.

You're good. I didn't mean like that. You're good. No, you're good. I thought their table analogy was cool because my husband and I, we were sitting at dinner with our kids. And I said, this table's too small. And he said, so we'll build a bigger table. Oh, dude.

You married well, man. What a great guy. You did. You would love him. He also hunts and fishes. And he's just steady, Eddie. He's such a, he's the best. It's awesome.

Awesome. And so you will, can I tell you something? And I mean this. the internet people are going to i don't care you're allowed to go a little crazy have full permission and listen you should be you're a mom of 800 kids it's okay allow yourself to go a little crazy allow yourself to be heartbroken allow yourself to be concerned that your body's going to have to go through this again And lean on steady eddy right now.

Yeah. That's why we do this together. Yes. We, um, all four of our kids required NICU time for various reasons. And with twins, it'll be just kind of par for the course. But I read your book, Building an Anxious Life, which everybody should read, by the way. And, um, just free plug. Good commercial.

Appreciate you. Yeah. But our twins came early, 10 weeks early, and they were in the NICU on ventilators, all that stuff. And I feel that fire alarm already going off. And yes, we're going to do some things to try to keep them in longer now that we know that this is a very real possibility. But it's like, it's coming. Like I know it's coming. And so I just, like I feel it in my chest.

And I know we'll get excellent care. I know all those things, but I know what it's like to spend all day with one child to have to go to the NICU and then you leave your children behind. You're always leaving kids behind. Yeah. And it's just, I know it's coming. So I just feel that like impending. It feels like doom. Yeah.

Can I, can I, it is doom. It's not, it's not, I'll say it's not natural. That's the wrong way I say it, but a mom shouldn't give birth and then go home without her babies. Right. and thank God we live in a little sliver of history where we can do that and there's trained professionals who can care for our babies in ways we can't you know what I mean so it's it's I would love for you to shift your language from we left them behind to we left them in a different we left them in care yeah the best way we could love them today was this and then go home and cry your eyes out that you're not holding your babies that's right and good what i don't want you to do here's go to war with your body because your body's right you would be weird if you were like all right two months a night niku and i couldn't move because the c-section was wild and because of this and because of this all right let's just

saddle up like your body there would be something wrong with your alarm system if it wasn't going off again right so what i would tell you is don't fight it as much as put your fist in your chest and exhale when you're by yourself, journaling in the morning and say, thank you for trying to take care of me. We've done this four times and we're going to do it again. And make all your crazy list, over list, over plan, and just hold them really loosely. And then if you want to, go ahead, go All right. I said, we'll do that. And I, I read your, I read your book, and so I should know that I should be writing these things down. Don't say should. There's no should. You have a thousand kids. You're just surviving, right? Like, I should, I should. Right. It's more about like, hey, you, here's some tools. And what I would really love for you and your husband to do is to get away and say, and we're going to start doing marriage in three-month chunks.

We're not going to build a new marriage right now. We're going to plan. for three months at a time. How can I love you in the next three months when I walk in and you're just sobbing? Husband, here's a roadmap for how you can best love me. When he comes home and he didn't make a sale this month

or the check is a little bit lower or the insurance premiums go up and he's just sitting there scrolling the night away or he's just trying to spreadsheet after spreadsheet like go ahead and talk about it now how you can best love him in that moment. Right.

and then in three months we're going to do it again and then hopefully two or three months maybe you'll get three or four more weeks in the oven with these kids and that'd be awesome and if you don't you've already been down that road before and it sucked and it worked out okay so we're going to lean on that our previous experience the word that keeps coming into my mind here that I think is the thing you have to lay down you have to submit to is control Is that word right? Does that sound right? Yeah, I'm the oldest of five.

Yeah, I get that. Okay, and so let's be honest. There were some things in your house that you missed out on because you had five kids, right? Or there was five of you. Yeah. Yeah, and our middle brother passed away when we were kids. So, you know, watching our parents deal with that grace

while going through our own grace was a wild thing as a little kid. So that alarm is going off too. you watching your parents dissolve after and become shells of themselves after losing a kid that alarm's going off watching their marriage change after pain and hurt and all these kids that alarm's going off when you look at this amazing husband you've married all those alarms are going off and they're all right right what i want you to do is begin to identify him and that just comes from from from writing them down and say speaking them out loud and over time if your husband isn't the it's not that he's unsafe or he's not a good guy and that He just might not be the best person to share that with. Make sure you've got some women in your life that you can share those fears with. Or just say, hey, I don't need anybody to fix anything. I just need to say this out loud.

This happened and this happened. And my body is running that script back to try to protect me right now in the present. And I can't make my heart rate just suddenly go down and I can't make my fear suddenly go away. But I want to put them on the table so that they're not in secrecy. They're not killing me from the inside out.

But, man. I'm happy to know you're my neighbors, Sarah, and I'm happy to know that you and your awesome husband are going to be raising 500 little kids and that it's going to be awesome. And I want you to never forget these words. You're a good mom. And good moms are allowed to be upset.

Good moms are allowed to have bad days. Good moms are allowed to snap. Good moms are allowed to be a little bit crazy. Good wives are allowed to just unplug for a night because I can't and that's what a good husband is for. All that stuff is right and good. the only thing is going to hold you underwater a little bit too long is trying to hold on to a plan,

try to control every variable in this pretty chaotic season of your life. But I absolutely wish you the best, Sarah. And when these babies are born, I hope you'll send us a card so we can celebrate them with you. And you're right down the street here one day. I'd like to see one of your buses pull up, your family vans pull up, and everybody pile out and you can come visit us.

We'll celebrate you right here in the studio. It was an honor talking to you today, Sarah. The world's a better place because you and your husband are raising an amazing family in it. When we come back, a man is grappling with guilt after a tragic accident that killed their family. I love, love, love my poncho shirts. And now as the mornings are starting to get cooler,

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What's up, Daniel? Hi, John. I'm a big fan of the show. Thank you for everything you do and for taking my call today. I appreciate you. I'm a big fan of yours, man. What's up? I'm just going to get right into it.

I want to know how to cope and navigate my own guilt of accidentally running over our family dog staying strong for the kids but explaining life and death in a way where my children are ready for it developmentally oh man i'm so sorry dude thank you oh man what happened so we were away my my wife was away and um i had my three kids and uh we were out for the day and uh we live on a rural property and uh we were coming up the driveway and uh we were coming up the driveway and we have a cleaning lady and she let the dogs out and we were just coming up slowly like normal and my one guy was on the other end of the property

and just ran after the car and he was in a blind spot we never saw him so yeah I drove over him did the best way could sheltered the kids from it at first we just thought it was his leg and then I got them inside real quick and was able to, you know, shelter them from seeing him before he went downhill there. I rushed to the hospital with him and did everything I could, but he didn't make it. We lost him on the way.

Yeah. Man, I'm sorry, Daniel. Super tough. Yeah, that's the worst, man. All of it, the whole picture of it. Man. good dog too oh he was awesome

yeah all three of our dogs are rescue dogs and uh yeah so i'm i'm struggling you know we only we only had him for a couple years he's about five perfect family fit my kids are uh eight six and then we got a one year old too

and he was just yeah perfect perfect fit for the family so I'm sorry man so what's the What's the, what's weighing on you the heaviest? The guilt of this thing happened, this sweet dog that came into your life that was great with your kids, your kids. The guilt is, yeah, sorry. Go ahead, go ahead, brother.

Like, what's the heaviest on your shoulders right now? The guilt, the guilt is tough because I'm obviously responsible. I don't, you know, I don't, it's tough to fully blame myself. There was nothing I could do differently. I'm feeling guilty that I didn't put the steps in place maybe to, like, making sure that an incident like that couldn't happen. The trauma of having to deal with it because I, you know, I love that dog lots, you know.

He's a member of the family. And then, you know, I think a lot of it have buried just trying to be there for the kids, you know, and being strong for them and trying to shelter them from some of that, you know. So let's peel this back. Is that cool? Yeah. Let's walk it back.

I am honored um by your ownership okay that's a responsible thing to do there is a difference between responsibility and blame and our culture has no psychology for an accident we just don't we live in such an insanely litigious insanely everything's videoed insanely um armchair quarterback culture. Yeah. You live on a rural, I live on a rural property too. My dogs are all over the place.

I totally dude, I totally get it. And so were you the one with your foot on the gas pedal and your hands on the wheel? Yes. Are you to blame for this dog's death? Absolutely not. And I don't blame a dog for wanting to come see his

family. And so I love the idea of you taking ownership I was driving I'm the dad I'm responsible and there's no fault here a bad thing happened period okay so you trying to come up with that's how we end up in crazy societies when everyone tries to manage risk to a point that we're all sitting in a chair in a white sterile room and now we just found out that room's got microplastics in it like we've created a world where we've taken all joy, adventure, laughter out of it

for the off chance that there might be discomfort or pain. And as Bray Brown once said, if you shut off the pain switch, you also shut off the joy switch. And so here's what I say. You could have all the things in place in the world and a well-meaning housekeeper comes over and opens the door and one of them shoots out.

It's just it happens, right? And so I can't just flip a switch and take blame from you, but I want to tell you just hearing your story, there's no blame here, man, it just happened. It happened. Okay. A well-meaning dad was being safe with his kids in a car going slow down a road,

and a well-meaning dog couldn't wait to see his family, and a thing happened. Right? Yeah. The second thing, and this is real, is you've got some images in your head that people shouldn't have in their head, right? Definitely.

Yeah. And so I want to say this, and I want you to metabolize this and let it sit deep inside your chest, okay? Okay. That dog, what was the dog's name? Rhino. Okay.

Rhino is not hurting right now. Rhino is pain free. okay yeah no everyone i've ever talked to who's been in an accident whether it's with a family member with a loved one with a stranger with a pet your body rightfully so loops on that incident and keeps flashing those things in front of you and the noises in front of you and the sight in front of you and all the carnage in front of you because it wants to make sure that never happens again but it's easy when it keeps doing that when it stays on that loop for us to continually go back to that moment of intense fear and pain and so i want to

bring you from that moment to right the second rhino's not hurting anymore rhino's free okay yeah and this is a choice you have to make all people who go through catastrophic loss have a choice now and it's hard the way i've seen people be successful is one of two things get an actual photograph of rhino in a funny family moment and put it in your back pocket and carry it with you for the next three or four months or have one on your phone and the moment one of those lightning bolt moments pops into your head of that moment when you're holding that dog when you're seeing that dog that feeling like oh god right those moments you can't help the lightning bolts but you can help you can help the next second which is am i going to meditate on that moment or am i going to pull that picture out

and replace that image in my mind with something beautiful, something full of laughter and something full of joy. Because there's a difference between grief and terror. And I want to be sad. I want to smile when I see that dog.

And I want to intentionally begin to change my default setting out of that terrible, awful, scary moment. Yep. And it's a practice. You have to choose it, and it's hard to choose it. it's the same thing i tell people when they capture when they see a video or a image or they walk in

on their spouse with somebody else same thing when somebody accidentally hits their kid with a car or accidentally hits you know causes their texting and driving they have a car wreck it's so your body just wants to loop on that image on that moment over and over and over and it's a protective measure and i get it but we have to choose what we meditate on and i'm going to meditate on i'm going to choose, not through thinking, through action, to look at a photo of that dog's smile and hanging out with my young kids. And then I'm going to be sad, and sad is different than terrified. Okay.

I feel like I have both those things going on. It's good. It's either intense sadness, and then I feel bad, kind of being too emotional in front of the kids. Okay, that's the third thing I want to tell you. The single greatest gift you could give to your. kids right now is to be sad in front of them yeah here's why they're sad and they might even be mad at their dad they might even be scared and upset and what if that happens to like kids are kids

but when parents try to shield their kids from scary things and from emotions the kids walk away feeling crazy they feel insane because all of your kids want to be like daddy and right now what they're learning is when you get scared or terrified or horrified or scared or sad you bury that and so the greatest gift you can give your kids is to be really sad yeah i was doing that and then my daughter told my wife that um it makes her more sad seeing me like that's okay that's okay i've buried it a bit more oh that's okay okay because the the response to your daughter is uh now If you're walking around sobbing all day every day and you're laying under a blanket

and you can't get up, then you need to go see a professional, right? They, like, there's, there's catastrophe, right? And kids have a hard time processing watching their father melt in front of them. That's fair. But you circling up all the kids and saying, hey, daddy's really sad.

We're all going to write our favorite memory of rhino and we're going to read it to each other. that sounds nutty and one of your kids might say that makes me extra sad and you can say i know sad is a way that we say i love you when somebody's passed away okay and if y'all didn't have a funeral of some sort i'd recommend that and let the kids participate in constructing that i think the ashes come back today okay then let's have it let's have let's all everybody draw a picture everybody write a story everybody write a poem whatever that thing is

we're all going to participate in this okay and it's okay to say daddy's really sorry daddy's sorry that rhino ran out in front of us daddy's sorry that this happened daddy's sorry that the dog is dead but I want to change your language

you didn't quote and I'm going to be kind of harsh here you didn't kill the dog okay mm-hmm you were behind the wheel when an accident happened. Yeah. If you're texting and driving or you're turning around making jokes, then that's a different story.

It's going to change. It wasn't happened. Yeah. And we can talk about our favorite thing about Rhino is he was always running after us because he loved us so much. And then there was an accident. But when our kids say, hey, seeing daddy cry, makes me feel extra sad

the thing to do isn't to take away that sadness because that sadness is still going to be there with her it's to say I know it hurts so big and I'm not scared of your hurt and you're allowed to be sad with me even extra sad with me not hey dad nip it in the bud right

like that like that's then it just teaches everybody just pipe it Yeah. It also teaches your daughter that she has control over her daddy's emotions, and I don't want her to have that kind of control either. She's just a kid. Dad's allowed to feel sad. And so is she. Okay. And here's my promise. This is going to sound nutty. My dog died. My beloved dog died, and my son and I, when he was four, I think, three or four, a buddy of mine had a ranch. and I'll never forget this.

It's the single holiest picture I have. But my friend took it from about 400 yards away. He's got a real fancy camera. But he took this photo and he sent it to me and he said, I don't capture holy moments on film, but I captured this one, feel free to delete it. And when we pulled up to his ranch, he had put up a little miniature shovel

and a big shovel for me and my son. And together we dug that hole. together we buried that dog we prayed for that dog we talked about what we liked about that dog and then we hugged and we were sad about that dog and let me tell you this a few years later one of my grandparents died

and that dog's life that moment gave me so much context for me to teach my son about what had just happened to granddad and so the legacy of my dog it still rattles through my family in a positive way so even through my dog's death and by the way i don't talk about it a lot on

the show i'm love love love love my dogs um but even in our dogs passing beloved family pets they become teaching moments for our kids that help us frame when loved ones die when their friends pass away when somebody at church gets sick or whatever the thing is you see what i'm saying yeah so letting them be a part of it in an appropriate way thank you so much for sharing that that's awesome i hate it for you brother but but letting your kids see the natural grief cycle and letting them work through it with you is a great gift a parent can give them great gift obviously we're going to do it age appropriate and etc i honestly this is me being honest daniel i don't know how i would i don't know how i would explain ashes to an

eight year old um you probably you probably can to a six and eight year old um that this is what we do this is what they do yeah yeah there's a way to tell that narrative just being kind of careful with how graphic you are with it but um i'm just thinking this through in real time um yeah you can um maybe bury the whole thing um but i think there's something about burying and there's a place and there's a marker, and maybe you and the kids make something together for that grave. Man, it's a powerful, important lesson for kids to learn that every single buddy passes away. And age appropriate, the earlier they can learn that and see that it's okay to be devastated. It's okay to be sad.

It's healing starts with action too, right? We're going to dig a hole. We're going to make a gravestone. We're going to write poetry. We're going to share it with each other. We're going to write a story. we're going to share pictures and we're all going to be sad and we're all going to laugh a little bit through tears and we're going to remember things all of that is right and good and the human experience there's a difference between responsibility and blame daniel and as for me i don't blame you for anything your kids are lucky to have you as a dad and old rhino had a good run with you too we'll be right back all right we are back gosh Kelly 2.0, get us out of that one.

By the way, like and subscribe, the show. Send the episodes to all your friends. Wow. All right, Kelly 2.0. Okay, so we need some good news. Okay, bring it. Okay, this is from a previous caller. She wrote in, she said,

Hey, Kelly's Rest of the Booth and John. I wanted to follow up on a call I had with Deloni back in December, 2024. It was about how do I tell a friend I'm pregnant? after she had a miscarriage. The conversation went better than expected throughout my pregnancy. Our friendship has developed and we've become quite close.

She's a friend. I'm grateful to have in my corner. We had a baby on Sunday, a girl, and we named her Kelly. No, she didn't. No, she did it. But she said, not really. I was going to say,

the world's full up on Kelly's right now. We need more. Disagree. She said, not really. I just wanted to see the look on John's face. Well, you got it. I thought that was for real, gosh. It's actually a baby boy named Isaac.

I wanted to let y'all know the conversation and birth were better than expected, and I was even listening to a recent episode while in labor. My friend is eager to meet my baby, and I'm so thankful for stepping out and having the hard conversation because it turned something... Because it turned into something unexpectedly beautiful. Y'all are changing lives. Keep up the wonderful work.

That's awesome. The only problem I have with that is Isaac, really? I think John would have been an amazing name for your son, but whatever. Hey, dude, that's so awesome. Thanks for having the courage to call in and the courage to go have that hard phone call. That's, and then, I mean, the beauty that came from that, that vulnerability is awesome. So, very cool. Take care of each other out there.

I love you guys. Keep making good choices and choose kindness. Peace.