The Dr. John Delony Show - Navigating a Convoluted Infertility Journey & Oversharing About OCD

Episode Date: December 7, 2020

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that gives you real talk on life, relationships and mental health challenges. Through humor, grace and grit, John gives you the tools you need to cut through the chaos of anxiety, depression and disconnection. You can own your present and change your future—and it starts now. So send us your questions at johndelony.com/show or leave a voicemail at 844-693-3291. We want to talk to YOU! Show Notes for this Episode 4:19: How do I cope with my family's reaction to my husband's OCD? 17:07: How do we deal with different styles of conflict resolution in our relationships? 25:47: My daughter was conceived via egg donor from my sister; how do we handle this as she gets older? 43:49: The company I work for started on Biblical principles but is straying away from that 53:03: Lyrics of the Day: "My Prerogative" - Bobby Brown tags: OCD, family, boundaries, disagreement/conflict, culture/current events, marriage, parenting, adoption, counseling/therapy, workplace/career, faith, anger/resentment/bitterness These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we're going to talk to a young woman whose friends are scared of her fiancé. We're going to talk to a wonderful young man who's trying to bridge cultural differences in his marriage. And we're going to talk to a mom whose sister donated an egg for their new baby. And yes, it's as complicated as it sounds. Stay tuned. Hey good folks, I'm John and this is the Dr. John Deloney Show. It's a live show where we show up, walk alongside hurting people, struggling people, people frustrated with what's going on. We talk about anything, everything, all of it. Whatever's going on in your heart and your mind,

you are not by yourself, you are not alone. And I'm here to walk with you. And there are countless people mowing their yards, walking their dog, doing the dishes and just trying to ignore their family, listening to this podcast, nodding, tears streaming down their face because they

identify with what's going on in your heart and mind. So give me a call, give me a shout. We are going to talk about family issues, we're going to be talking about relationship challenges, we're going to be talking about loss, infidelity, all of it. And we may talk about this, I want to just be vulnerable here and tell you about something that happened in my house last night. And since my wife and especially my son don't listen to this, even if they did, it wouldn't be a big deal. I think being authentic is important. Last night we put our kids to bed and my wife went to go read and write something that she does in the evenings. And I heard my son's door open. And so I got my dad eye rolls ready.

Just, what do you want? And he came in. I tell you what, man, he just started crying. He just started crying hard. And we hugged for a long time and didn't say much. And then he just said, Dad, when is this going to stop? His school closed down, so they're at home through the Christmas break or for however long. And he's just coming off a two week quarantine. So we went back to school for one day and now he's home and

hadn't been able to go to church. Hadn't been able to see his friends, his pet turtles. Several of them died right in a row. And just listening to the tears of a young kid, just saying, Dad, when does this stop? And me as his dad having to tell him, I don't know, man. I know that I love you. I believe in my heart that God loves you. I know your mom loves you more than life itself. I know your sister loves you.

But as to when all this hurt stops, man, I don't know. And then I asked him to put his clothes on and he got his clothes and a jacket on and we just went for a walk outside under the moonlight. And we live out in the woods and so there was billions of stars. And it was just a neat moment.

We spent mostly in silence, just walking. Until finally he said, man, I'm really tired. I'd like to go to sleep. And I hugged him again and we prayed and he went to bed. But just one of those holy moments between a dad and a son. I don't have any comforting words other than to say, I'm here and I love you. And I promise this will pass someday. So if you're sitting there with your loved ones and you're just wondering, they're wondering, when does this stop?

I don't know, but I know this. We're in this together, and people only spin off and act bananas, act like jerks when they decide to. And so when we're all in this together, we're all walking step by step with one another. As somebody trips and falls, we're all there to pick each other up. It's like being in an old mosh pit, right? Somebody falls down, everybody stops and picks the other person up before you go back to singing and dancing. And I hope you'll be there to pick me up when I inevitably fall too. But be there for one another. So whatever's going on in your heart, in your home, in your head, I'm here to stand with

you. Give me a call at 1-844-693-3291. That's 1-844-693-3291. Or the best way to get in touch with us is to go to johndeloney.com slash show and fill out the form. Tell me what's going on in your heart, in your mind, what's going on in your home, and we will get you here on the show. All right, let's go straight to the calls. We've got a whole long list of calls today. I'm excited. Let's go to Megan in Asheville, North Carolina. Good morning, Megan. How are we doing? Morning, John. Doing well. How are you? Outstanding. So how can I help this morning? So recently, at the beginning of this year, before everything went down, my fiance was diagnosed with OCD and decided to make a post about it, like a blog post on social media. And it basically backfired with a part of my family.

So the OCD that backfired, I'm guessing then it had to do more with intrusive thoughts or looping thoughts, or does he have some OCD behaviors that made people uncomfortable? Um, it's the, it's the intrusive thoughts. Ah, okay. So I've worked closely with some folks over the years with this. So does he, did he write some stuff that scared people? Yeah, he like what give us an example what did he write um so he talked about like having thoughts of like doing violent things to other people and obviously like he would never do those things sure but just being so horrified of that and just like these huge like vivid images of doing things that are terrible to other people. So why did he feel the need to write that down and, and to put it out to the world there?

Um, we basically, um, been working on like the two, two of us together working on like being truthful to who we are. And so he would, that was his way of being like, I'm just gonna let everyone know like what I've been dealing with.

Um, I mean, maybe you've done, maybe you did it in a little bit too public of a way. It's easier to see that now, I'm just going to let everyone know what I've been dealing with. Maybe he did it in a little bit too public of a way. It's easier to see that now, but in the moment, I was so proud of him. Gotcha. Okay, so he posts this stuff, and then what? So I got a call from one of my cousins, and she was like, hey, like, are you okay? Like, and I was like, yeah, I'm totally fine.

And she was like, hey, like, if you need anything, just call me and tell me that, like, you want to talk about my daughter's wedding. And I was like, no, like, and she thought it was, like, that I was in an abusive relationship. Oh, she's setting up code words for you. Yeah. Okay. And I was like, no, like, I'm totally fine. He's she's setting up code words for you. Yeah. Okay. No, like I'm totally fine. He's great. He wouldn't hurt a fly.

Anyway, that conversation ended and her daughter ended up having like things that she didn't talk to me about. And then I went to her and asked her if I could bring him to the wedding. And she was like, no, I feel really uncomfortable with him. Okay. And so that's hard to hear. It's her wedding.

And so what'd you decide to do? So, I mean, we talked and we were like, you're going to stay here and I'm going to go and, you know, I'll go be there for her and then I'll come back and we'll deal with things. And I called her even like, and I told her like how I was feeling about all of it. And I just let her know we weren't going to try to like make anybody feel uncomfortable. It's really hard. Yeah, that's hard. It is. Okay. So bring me to now, how can I help with you today? So now we're trying to get married and I'm dealing with trying to figure out

who my bridesmaids are. And she was always going to be like my first choice, you know? And now I'm like, I don't know if she wants, like, I want to feel like I have people that are there to support us. Yeah. And I don't, yeah. And you feel like because she expressed fear and concerns and drew some boundaries early on that she doesn't support him, doesn't support, which means she doesn't support you, and you don't want her up there representing this marriage. Yeah.

So just the thought of this is bringing you to tears. How come? Well, I mean, we've just always been so close, and she's always been like the sister that I never had. Yeah. And, like, I think that I've decided that I want to have her in the had. Yeah. And I think that I've decided that I want to have her in the wedding. Okay. Or I at least want to give her that

option, you know? Yeah. So, with your permission, I want to reframe this for you. Is that cool? Yeah. Okay. So, OCD and intrusive thoughts for the person who's having them is terrifying, right? Yeah.

You've probably watched him, this guy that you love, and you're about to marry. You're about to spend the rest of your life. You've probably watched him be curled up in a ball by some of this stuff, right? Yeah. And you know him, and you love him, and you've. And you know him and you love him and you've got context with him and you see him every day. You interact with him every day.

You know his voice inflections. You not only know him intellectually, but you know him really spiritually, right? Yeah. So much so you're going to spend time with him. And my guess is you probably know this other woman in a similar fashion. You've known her for years. She's guess is you probably know this other woman in a similar fashion. You've known her for years. She's somebody that you trust with everything, right?

Is that fair? Yeah. Okay. So I want you to put yourself in her shoes and somebody who she loves almost more than life itself, which is you, is in love with a guy who posts online his uncontrolled fantasies, uncontrolled dreams about violent fantasies, about murdering people, about killing loved ones, about seeing blood, whatever violent imagery he put out there. And she, from that point forward, because she loves you and because she cares about you, has one goal in mind and that is to make sure you're safe.

And she probably did that with all the only tools she had, which is to call you directly, good friend for her, and then she's giving you code words, she's trying to help out here, and you have to walk her back. And once you walk her back, once her default setting, which is I want to make sure Megan's okay. Once you convinced her of that, then she has a responsibility to everybody else in her wedding party.

She's got a responsibility to herself. And she did a brave, bold thing. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's nuanced in understanding of people with OCD who would never commit these acts, but still they're plagued by these haunting, recurring, vivid, imaginative dreams. Hey, John. Yeah.

Can I stop you? Sorry. Of course. That was actually her mother who did that. Oh, her mom did? Okay. She didn't actually talk to me at all about it. Oh, okay. Okay. So her mom got involved. Okay. All right. So she's not as brave and cool as I thought.

But all that to say is this. Give people the benefit of the doubt. Yeah. If you were to objectively go back and reread what he wrote, I bet it's scary, isn't it? It's hard for me to say because I have gone back and read it, and I don't think it's scary. Give me an example. Well, I mean, he put it in the post, like, these are going to be scary, sort of vivid images. And he didn't really say—

Yeah, but give me an example. Give me an example. Of something that he said? Yep. He just said something general, like I have thoughts of violently hurting other people. That is enough right there for me to say, probably not. I want you on my kids, right? Yeah, that's fair.

And every time somebody does something public, right, there's a mass shooting or a mass, they go back and they look at their writings, at their posts, and they all go, whoa, we should have seen that coming. Right? Yeah. Now, what those incidents don't, don't tell the, they don't tell the full story because there's a bunch of other people who write things like that, that write harsh poetry or they write very vivid, violent things, and they're never going to hurt anybody. But the meta-narrative is, if you look back and see some of that stuff, man, you could see the video post and the blog post and the need to tell everybody. They were planting seeds here, right? And so all that to say is this, whether it's your friend, whether it's your friend's mom,

whoever it is, give them the benefit of the doubt for what happened in the past. And now you're bringing yourself to here. If you don't want her in your wedding, then don't have her in your wedding. Let that fantasy go. If you do want her in the wedding, invite her to be in your wedding, right? Yeah. I think overthinking it and over-traumatizing yourself over this decision is going to cause you way more pain than just making a call and moving on. Yeah. What does he think about it? Can you think of it?

Surely he understands that people are going to react adversely to this. He actually didn't at first. I was trying to tell him what you were telling me um and he actually had a bigger problem with it because it was like he was he felt rejected which is fair like he said he's gonna he's dreaming about hurting people and yes people then went to cover their children yes that's? Now, with some understanding of somebody with his mental health challenges, yeah, man, that's a whole different conversation, but the average person's never going to know that, which is why going all the way back to our original,

like my first question, why did he post this? There is something incredibly perverse that's come upon all of us in the last decade, which is this idea of radical integrity and radical honesty, which is important and critical. And then going over the edge, which is I'm just going to put every thought, every everything, right? So we'll talk to young couples who are like, I just want to be me, bro, and I just want to make sure my wife knows everything. And then you see somebody attractive at the mall and they're like, hey, babe, she's super, super hot and I'm kind of having to – shut up, dude. What are you doing, right? There's a difference between being radical honesty and being an idiot, right? completely 100% open and spewing every thought or every challenge out into the world with no context, no relationship, no understanding, right? And so again, if he was on the phone, I would really want to dig in what compelled you to not be honest with you, to not be just

honest with a therapist, but to post something to the world. What was to be gained by that? But that's a whole other conversation. That's not why you called me. I think you just need to make a decision and be totally at peace because here's one important thing with a period at the end of it, okay? This is your wedding and you can have whoever you want there or not have whoever you want there and nobody gets a vote but you.

Yeah. That's it. And that might mean that you've got to reimagine this fantasy that you had about your wedding. It's 2020. All of us are reimagining every weird thing we had planned anyway, right? Or you can forgive your friend for loving you and trying to care about you in the only way she knew how and for reading things that are disturbing.

They just are. That was stripped of context in any sort of relationship. And you can bring her into the fold, and she may not want to. And that still doesn't mean that she doesn't love you and shouldn't be at your wedding. Yeah. But, yeah, I think you're beating yourself up unnecessarily. I think letting this one ride making a call and then just going on with it i think it's going to be a

relief for your soul just do it just do it megan and again be graceful with people who get confronted with violence get confronted with imagery get confronted with the other side of mental health challenges. You won't find a bigger advocate than me. I spend my life doing that. But there's another side to it, which is also I fully 100% understand when people are caught off guard by it, when their first instinct is to recoil. That's natural and that's fair. And radical honesty has its place, but it doesn't have its place all over unsuspecting people who didn't ask for it,

who didn't invite themselves into that conversation. But I do appreciate you loving him, and I do appreciate you being a person of character, trying to think through what's the right thing to do here, but don't overthink it. You've got it. Your wedding, your choice, your decision. Roll with it. You've got this. All right, let's go to Jack in Los Angeles. My brother, Jack, how are we doing this morning? Pretty good. So I'm calling you because I'm having an issue with, I guess, conflict resolution with my in-laws and they come from

a very different cultural background and have different behavior norms than the family I grew up with. So I'd like to get your perspective on it. Very cool, man. Well, thanks for the trust there. So what two cultures are we bringing together here? So I'm a white Midwestern guy, moved to Los Angeles. But, you know, we're raised very kind of straight ahead, you know, be direct, tell it like it is. And my wonderful wife and her family are from Korea. They've lived here for 20 years, you know, so they're integrated into American culture, but they also carry,

you know, these norms where they don't directly approach conflict the same way that I do. And they have found that the way that I do it can be pretty abrasive. There you go. I love it. Pretty harsh. Yeah. Hey, so first off, I want to just high five you brother from Nashville to Los Angeles. Thank you for being a guy who loves his wife enough to try to go down the hospitality route instead of just being an egotistical, brash, idiotic husband. I applaud you, brother. And it's going to take more work and it's going to take some compromise on your part and some re-imagination, learning some new language. But dude, good for you, man. If more people were like you, we would have less of the nonsense we've got these days. So good for

you. All right. So give me a scenario where you want to learn how you can better address the situation. Okay, sure. So the most recent one was that they come over to our house a lot. They sometimes stay pretty late, and it's past the kids' bedtime. We've got small kids. And I'd like to tell them that it's time to go. But if I say things like that, then they get offended and they don't want to come back and visit. And then my wife says, don't be that direct with them. Just let me tell them instead. But to me, I feel like I need to

step in when it's like, you know, 9, 9.30 at night and it's pretty late for the kids. So will she not step in? Is she asking you to do something that you've seen her repeatedly not do, or does she have a way that she can do it more gracefully that, that, um, lets her parents retain their dignity and their cultural respect and still gets the, the meets everybody's needs, which is we got to get those kids to bed. Right. Uh, well she can do it with Grace, but it has to kind of be a pre-planned thing. It can't be something in the moment where, you know, gosh, we look at the clock and we realize, oh my gosh, it's nine o'clock. It has to be something

where I talked with her ahead of time and say, okay, you know, they're coming over. Great. Let's just tell them it's time to, you know, go around eight o'clock. And so why don't we just do that? My wife has actually brought that to my life over the last few years, and it has been incredible. Now when we've got people coming over to the house, we just tell them, hey, we're wrapping up tonight at 7, 7.30. We got to get the kids to bed. And everybody drops their shoulders. They're like, okay, cool. It's just a gift, right? Now, of course, there's the occasion when everybody runs past it and we're having some great conversation, everyone's laughing, carrying on, and suddenly it's 9.30 or 10.

That happens, right? But it's rare. Especially it doesn't happen with in-laws. So do you not like pre-planning, or do you really at the root, you don't like not being able to say what you want to say in your own house? Well, the latter is definitely part of it. Um, and that's, there's probably an ego thing there. And, um, I, I think I like to be a planner, but I think it just takes me by surprise when, you know, like when they come and they don't just realize that it's time to leave, you know, when it's like nine o'clock, I guess. What happens if you just start getting the kids ready for bed?

I kind of feel like that even would cause a conflict too. Like, oh, what are you doing with the kids? We're hanging out. I think that would even be considered as like I'm not playing nice with the family. Gotcha. So here's the easy, this may be the easiest call I've ever taken on this show. That's not true.

There was one a few weeks ago that was super easy. It's just this simple. You can choose to default to hospitality and harmony in your home, which means being submissive to your in-laws culture, to the way they communicate with one another, the way that they can retain dignity and respect in their home and in their marriage. Or you can say, this is my freaking house. I can do whatever I want. That's your two choices. If it's me,

I'm going to do everything I can to be more respectful, which means in your situation, we're probably going to have to plan. We're probably going to have to be pretty dogmatic about saying, hey, we're done at 7 o'clock. We've got to get those kids in bed, and then we're going to roll from there. I would also recommend having a regular, regular tea time or coffee time or meal time with your father-in-law? Do y'all just go hang out, you two?

Okay. Have y'all ever done that, Jack? Do we? Yeah. Yeah, actually, yes. And we get along really great. Yeah, so that would be super fun for both of us. So have you ever asked him to teach you about his culture? Have you ever asked

him to say, Hey, I'm so intrigued. I love your daughter. I want to learn more about this. How do I say this? Or how does somebody express this and give him an opportunity just to be the teacher? How does that go? It goes really well. Yeah. Yeah. We get along really well, and I think he and I connect better than I connect with the women in his family outside of my wife. Sure. I think just as guys, we have sort of similar personalities. So, yeah, I think the door's always open there to connect with him more. Very cool. I think that would go a long way.

And one final question before I let you go. When you say, if you come in and say, hey, it's 9 o'clock, guys. I'm so sorry. I've got to get these kids to bed. And you grab the kids. You tell them to do the hugs and kisses, make the rounds, and then we're going to take them off to bed. And somebody, sounds like your mother-in-law, says, that's so offensive. We're never coming back here again. Like this is embarrassing

for us. We've overstayed our welcome. Now we feel ashamed. And, um, we committed a hospitality violation and I'm embarrassed. I'm not coming back. Do they actually come back? It takes a few weeks. Um, but they do. And, and yeah, but that conversation doesn't happen in the moment. It happens like, you know, on group chat afterwards that I'm not on. So I hear about it from my wife, but yeah. So I kind of have to show, you know, show that I'm sorry that I hurt their feelings a little bit, invite them over more. And then, you know, usually in a few weeks it usually gets better. Gotcha. And so, yeah, I think letting your wife be the powerhouse grown woman that she is, and if she says, I can contribute to this communication and help honor my parents, that's awesome. And if you offline can begin to deepen your relationship with your father-in-law,

if you could do it with your mother-in-law, if you just had regular coffee with your mother-in-law once a month, once every few weeks, and slowly all continue to learn and grow and love each other. And then, yeah, you put your ego in a drawer when you're dealing with your in-laws, you be respectful and hospitable and you just plan. Again, man, those seem like really small things to honor somebody. Those seem like really small things to continue to create family peace, right? And then you are free to raise your kids in combination with your wife as best you all see fit. As best as you all see fit. But honoring your in-laws is such a gift.

And I know it's, that's not me, bro. I know, man. I know people are listening to this being like, I wouldn't do that. I would tell them, well, then you're an idiot. And Jack, you're a good human being, man. Good for you for trying to be hospitable. Man, you've made my whole day better, brother. And it started off not too great today, but you have turned it around for me, man. So I'm man you've made my whole day better brother and it started off not too great today but you have turned it around for me man so I'm grateful for you all right let's go to Marie in Chicago Illinois Marie good morning how are we doing doing all right thank you for talking to me no thank you for calling how can I help okay so um I'm looking for some guidance on how to explain better to my husband why myself and my sister, who happens to be our daughter's egg donor, that we feel it's important that we share the information about how she was conceived with our children. We have a son that's a little bit older.

And the loved ones now before it becomes like a thing so we can kind of control it. Oh, honey. You can't see my face right now, but whoa. So your sister is your egg donor? She was, yes. Does she live by you guys? She's about an hour away. We're pretty close.

Wow. Okay. There's a lot, and you've probably, how old's your daughter? She's going to be three in January, so she's not really our issue right now. Well, she super is, and I'll walk you through it. So, oh man, there's a lot here. And I know it feels like there's just one thing or two things, but I promise you there's a lot here. Wowzers. Okay, so what was the original agreement here?

And I want to talk in adoption terms. So was this a, quote closed adoption? Did your sister give you an egg legally that she terminated rights to that is completely yours and y'all came up with some sort of agreement, I guess? You and her and your husband, is that what happened? Yes, there is like legal paperwork and everything. Okay. So she has terminated any and all claim to this egg. Yes. And what was the agreement?

Did you all shake hands and say we're just going to keep this quiet forever? Yeah, pretty much. Going into it, obviously not knowing what was really going on, I guess. Everything's going to explode on us. Yes. Okay. And I know you didn't think you're gonna get this response from me this is a this is a messy one so one year goes by two years go by and now you're at three years and so then who brings up what conversation tell me where we're at um okay so my sister is um more like she's been kind of keeping her thoughts to herself

and so we've been working through stuff me and her and it finally this all just kind of came out about a year ago and then i want to know exactly how that came out um she finally said to me, I just feel like a donor. I don't feel like you thought about me or you think about me. And she doesn't want any rights or anything like that. These are just conversations like her and I have had. But she was feeling hurt. But going into it, she did say, I never want to speak about this again. And she's five years younger than me. But going into it, she did say, I never want to speak about this again.

And she's five years younger than me. Yeah. So. So here's, you have a 10 year old biological child? I have a biological son, but she doesn't have any children. Okay. Wow. Okay.

So. Oh man. So here's, I'm just going to be as honest as I can. Is that cool? Yes. It's probably more than you're asking for. So the first thing that you're going to have to put down, put aside is any sort of fantasy that this is going to be a smooth sail for the next rest of your life. Okay?

Yeah. Cause here's what's going to happen. Here's what's already happening is your sister, your aunt is watching a mini me version of herself grow up. And slow initially it's, I'm going to do this cause it's an awesome gift I can give to my sister. What a blessing. I don't have any kids of my own. I got an egg to spare. Here you go. I'm going to sign all the paperwork. I don't want to talk about this again. And then she sees somebody that looks just like her. And then she sees somebody that responds or curls her lip or moves her eyebrow just like her. And then suddenly, I don't want anything to do with this, but I feel like you're leaving then suddenly, I don't want anything to do with this, but I feel like you're leaving me out. I don't want to do anything, but I'm just the donor here.

And suddenly, this regret, this harshness, this, and then it's, well, of course, we're going to have to tell this baby, right? And I know we all agreed. Did y'all sign some papers of some sort about not saying anything? Or did y'all just all high-five each other on the way out in the parking lot and say, all right. No, they make you legally sign papers. That's right, man. And so now you've got somebody in your house that probably looks like your husband and acts like you and your husband and looks a lot like your little sister.

And I'm just guessing here. And now you're recognizing secrets destroy families. So you have to tell her, of course you have to tell her, of course. Well, right. It's not a matter of if it's when now. That's right. DNA and everything. But you've got a husband now who agreed to this whole thing under another set of circumstances, however screwed up those circumstances were. And now he feels like his world's getting turned upside down because the people who agreed to this thing – He does not like change. Yes. Well, it's not that.

It's change. But he's not a matter of change. It's a matter of – hey, I may not have – Well, he doesn't like change of plans. Yeah, but this is bigger than just a change of – Like a plan with set. This is bigger than a matter of hey i may not have like change of plan yeah but this is bigger than just a change of this is bigger than a change of plans this is a complete uprooting of everything he thought was going to be happening moving forward now i'll be the first to tell you what he thought was going to happen was way wrong but this is not just like hey i thought we were going to go eat at

red lobster and now we're going to burger king. This is not that, right? Right. Yes, Russ. Yes. Because here, if he's wise, here's what he's looking at down the road. He's looking at a series of conversations over the next 20 years explaining this, which isn't bad. Kids are resilient. Kids get things. Over time, he'll get this.

Or over time, your daughter will pick this stuff up and she'll this will be the only world she knows right and this is great right that's why we want to kind of make it normal now right but it was something we planned to do which we did but yeah of course you planned it you didn't think it through though because now your husband is going to watch this young woman grow up in your home that looks a lot like your sister. And at the first sign of trouble, 10 to 13, in that range, when she knows, she's going to say something like, well, you're not even my mom. And you are going to melt. And your sister, my guess is will be there to just to help

out right possibly she's gonna have to be an ironclad woman she's gonna have to be stronger than me because i tell you what man if i saw somebody that shared my dna running around i'm always gonna have one eye looking over there to make sure they're doing okay. And if they fall down, I'm going to be there too. It would be a very extraordinary person who could be that close to a situation and that differentiated from it. Right? Yes.

And so is your sister going to try to co-parent? Does she begin to slowly start leaning in here? No, no. Not like in the relationship end of it because she feels like, I mean, she's talking to somebody about this too, but she feels like she has the same relationship with her that she does with my son. Because she doesn't even really technically want children right now i know but doesn't know if she wants them right and so what she's getting to do is to presumably have the best of both worlds right well yeah they just send them home that's right she got to contribute to the making of a child you are are her mom, make no mistake, right? You are her mom

through and through and through. But your sister got to contribute, see what it looks like, see somebody who looks like her grow up and not have to deal with it, right? So she's getting, she's trying to play both sides here. But I also understand, man, what a gift, a sister to a sister, right? And I don't want to think she was an evil person at all. Yeah, it's a beautiful gift. Well, and I think with him, it's just, it's like, I don't want this to blow up and be like, it's this big secret that she finds out later.

Right. And I think he's more worried about like what people, we've talked very little about it because it blows up very quickly yeah um but it's like he's he's i think he's worried that somebody he always worries about what people think like they're gonna be like well her real mom so i think it's more about like he hasn't thought in the future part yet but his initial like he comes from a very traditional family and they know very little about our ivf even story yeah so so like we didn't share that because it was just easier not to because he would get questioned and it was we didn't know

answers then so yeah so so worried i think about what people are going to think. He's drowning in secrets right now. Yeah. I mean, our closest family, like I have all my cousins and aunts and uncles are all right here in our same town. So, like, it's going to be, there's only probably a handful of people that actually do know. Yeah. So, be really graceful with him. Okay? This is a big deal And if he doesn't have the tools he clearly doesn't and this isn't a knock on him

This is just a like I I don't know how to lay tile in a kitchen He does not have the tools to walk through his relationship challenges to walk through his Heartbreak over fertility stuff. He doesn't have any of those tools. And so what he's done is he's just kept everything zipped up. And yeah, he is losing. I think there's some resentment because at first we weren't going to do IVF.

Then we weren't going to do, we were going to do IUI. Then we did IVF. Then we were going to only do one round. Then if it didn't work, it didn't work. Right. And then suddenly you find yourself pushing it. Yeah. You find yourself $50,000 in the hole and what's 60,000 and what's 70,000, right? And now you're... Right. It was just that one more step. I just wanted my son to have a sibling, a person. Right. That was my goal. And she stepped up. She did. She did.

And I'm not here to judge that process. Right. What I am here to judge is y'all didn't think it through all the way. And you have to have. No, there's no book on that. There's not. There's not, right? No.

And so when you find yourself in a situation with two people that you love, here's what I'm worried about happening to you. You're going to lose your husband over this deal and you're going to lose your sister over this deal. Because you're not talking with one another. You're not all in the same room with one another. And you guys have to have hard conversations, all three of you together. And my guess is you're going to have to start with your husband and you're going to start with a marriage counselor tomorrow. Because I can't imagine what he's trying to navigate in his head with the limited tools he's got. Right.

Okay. And I can't imagine him feeling like his whole world is unwinding. And he may not know that the right thing to do is to tell his little girl. And he may not know that the right thing to do is to not keep secrets from your 10-year-old son. Obviously, tell people age-appropriate things. One of my great friends, it's a husband and wife team of therapists. They're incredible. But they said when you're having hard conversations with kids, do building blocks of truth. So the next truth sits on top of that

previous truth. So they don't have to unlearn and relearn something new. Your three-year-old, your 10-year-old probably is not going to fully understand sperm and egg and implementation or implants. They're not going to get all that, right? No. They do understand a little baby takes apart from a boy and apart from a girl. And we had to go see a special doctor to help out. They get that truth. Which he knows that we went to special doctors because he was there with me a lot. But yes, obviously that was three years ago. He didn't comprehend.

That's right. That's right. But your husband may not know that truth is the best way here. And so I'm just telling you, be graceful with him. And as y'all figure this out, again, don't use language. Please don't use language like, he just doesn't like change. This is not just like change. Right?

This is what I'm calling a systemic overhaul. And then you're going to have to be graceful with your sister because she's going to watch a spitting mirror image of herself walking around. And she signed a piece of paper that she didn't fully understand what she was signing. Agreed. And you're going to have to be extra graceful with your daughter when she says things like, you're not my mommy because you know you are, right? And you're going to have to be extra graceful with your sister when she says well that kid's 50 mine and you can gently say she's not she's got 50 she's got 25 dna from her dad and 25 nurture and she's got 25 of your her dna and you're giving her the other 25 so she's actually 75 y'all 25 her You can use that kind of math, right? Other than 50-50. But math answers never solve the hole in her heart

that she's going to have watching her little girl walk around. And so you're going to end up with a much tighter relationship with your sister, if y'all will be honest with one another, or an absolute disaster, right? Which I think we're working towards that. I think we've come, it was pretty bad for a year or two. And I think we're really coming together, but I don't want it to be like me and her against him. Yeah, it can't be. It's gotta be the, you've got to start with him. Yeah. Start with him and root yourself in. Right. So here's my meta secrets, destroy families. You're going to have to create a plan to systematically tell your kids, right? Very gently over a long period of time, over and over

and normalize it. This is their world, right? Right. That's what we want to do. Normalize it. That's what you want to do, not what he wants to do. Right? Correct. And so when he feels like he's being ganged up on by somebody who just donated an egg, suddenly it feels like he's got two wives and he's got two mothers and he's got two people co-parenting. Do you see what I'm saying? She doesn't get a vote at this point. She's out. Right.

He gets a vote. Gotcha. And so you want to tell your kids. You want to improve your relationship with him. And quite honestly, I'm just speaking for you here, but my guess is you love that man and you want him to be able to finally drop his shoulders and just be who he truly is and be a vulnerable guy that was a part of a relationship that struggled with fertility challenges, that he went to bed heartbroken and lonely sometimes. And then he was able to have an incredible opportunity to, somebody reached up and donated an egg, and now he's got a beautiful daughter that he loves. And if people are going to say what they're going to say, they're going to say what they're going to say, right? But he needs to learn the tools to be able to put that

kind of nonsense down. But at the end of the day, wow, you got to start from square one with him and you got to be graceful with him because you are changing the rules. Y'all should have thought this through. It's over. You're here now. And now you've got a very messy situation moving forward that can only be cured, only be helped with grace and over communication and honesty with one another moving forward. He's going to have to get to a place where he knows secrets destroy families. It destroys children. It destroys marriages.

That's not an option. But also, you ganging up on him with your sister isn't an option either. So start with him. Start with yourself. And we'll slowly work and get there. Your daughter's three, so you've got some time on this deal. And letting your son know whenever y'all do sit down and start to have these conversations, hey, we didn't have a playbook on this one. And so we're learning, and we probably made some mistakes.

We probably did some things wonderful. At the end of the day, you have a beautiful sister that we love who lives in our house and I'm the mom and he's the dad. And we're figuring out as we go. And we love both of you so, so much and start from there. But all of this starts on a new foundation of, I love my husband and we're in this together. We're in this together. Sister will come along later, but right now we're in this together. We're in this together. Sister will come along later. But right now we're in this together. Marie, let me know how those conversations go. If your husband wants to give me a call, I'd love to talk to him too. I'd love to get his perspective on this.

This is such a unique case, but it's such a messy situation too. Have him give me a call. Otherwise, keep me updated on how things are going. And I look forward to hearing from you soon. We'll be thinking about you. But start with him and start with a good marriage counselor ASAP. All right, let's run out to Aaron in Battle Creek, Michigan. My brother Aaron, how are we doing? I'm good, Dr. John. How are you this morning? I am blessed and doing all right. How can I help you, man? Wonderful. Well, I work for a company that started back in the 80s on biblical principles. And here in recent days, the founder of the company and his sons have sold their stock.

They've retired, and an executive board has kind of taken over. And they're headed in a direction that really doesn't line up with some of those biblical principles. And I've spoken to our location manager about that. He was a pastor as well as I was at one time, too, and those concerns that I had just kind of got blown off, and the direction that I see the company going just doesn't set well with me, and there's some injustices and other little things that have come in. I kind of want to know, how do I handle this? How do I deal with this? Because I like my job. I like what I do, but I want to know how to walk through this with grace and be able to do my job and do it well.

Man, that's a lot there. So very quickly, give me one or two things. Define quote unquote biblical values. What does that mean? You know, for one, treating your customers the way that you would want to be treated yourself, you know, in the biblical sense of treating people and being a servant leader, just much like Jesus was, you know, a servant leader and not seeing, I'm not seeing some of those things. I'm seeing, you know, our customers kind of being blown off now that we're getting bigger. And I've seen some processes in place. There's some favoritism and things that's going on. And I'm not the only one that sees it, but I just,

I want to know that, you know, now that I've shared my perspective and the biblical principles, how do I deal with this? You know, I mean without getting angry, without getting sideways with the powers that be, so to speak. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you've got a couple of options. Number one, you did the noble and integrous thing, and you had a concern, and you took it to your supervisor. You took it to your boss. You took it to the person you've got a problem with. Sure. Right.

And they blew you off. Right. And I'll say this with all due respect, but they're the boss. And however poor leadership that is, they're the boss. Right. Okay. And it is what it is. And so now you've got a decision to make.

You love your job, but your job is beginning to violate your values. And you can ask yourself, are those values things that you can control? Meaning, can you continue to treat customers the way they deserve to be treated? Not because they're customers, but just because there's a basic decency and human respect that you have for other people, right? Right. Can you control that? Can you control the fact that we're going to have good books? We're not going to cook the books.

We're not going to fudge numbers here. Are those things things you can control? Or is the values of the organization at such that you've got to leave? Okay. And if a lot of times I hear these kind of conversations about injustices and things aren't fair, are people getting paid differently? Let me ask you that question. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's usually the chief injustice, right?

And a lot of it is people who have a lot less experience. There we go. Less time. And that one actually does affect me directly. Sure. So here's the thing. Here's my philosophy on this, and people can send me all kinds of mean hate mail, but here's my philosophy. Whenever I agreed to come work here for Dave Ramsey, literally Dave and I sat in a meeting with a couple other people and we shook hands on a salary. It was fair. It was more than fair. It worked for me and my family and we shook hands. If I then walked downstairs and saw Rachel Cruz and Chris Hogan and said, hey, what do you guys

make? And it was triple what I had just said. That would not be any injustice at all. And here's why. Because we shook hands on it. I agreed to it. And nobody tricked me. The injustice would be if Dave and I shook hands and then he paid me half. Then I would have a claim for injustice. But if suddenly he decides I want to move the company in this direction with people who have this level of expertise, this level of degree, we've been doing things like this for a long time. And over time, I'm going to phase out the way we're doing it. We're going to start doing it this way. And these folks have a new type of expertise and I'm going to pay them this much because that's what the market demands for this particular credential and this master's degree or whatever, then that's

not an injustice to me. It might piss me off. I might think, well, that's a box of farts. I want to be making that much money, but it's not an injustice. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think so a little bit. And, you know, and there's, there's also different departments, you know, involved company-wide, you know, it's not just one big department, you know, there are people in other departments, you know, as far as that goes. And so I work in one department and some of these guys, you know, work in other departments. And as I looked at things, I thought, well, dude, you haven't even been here as long as I have, and I've got more experience than you do. And, you know, so those were the things that came to my mind as I was walking through some of these things. And like I said, that's just one piece of the puzzle.

That's right. But it is a piece of the puzzle that really bugs me. That's right. So, hey, here's the deal, Aaron. I'll make it real simple. You can put those bricks down and choose to have a great life, or you can carry that stuff around, and it's just going to weigh you down because it's not going to change leadership.

Right. It's not going to suddenly add dollars to your paycheck. Right. It's not going to suddenly – someone's not going to weigh you down because it's not going to change leadership. It's not going to suddenly add dollars to your paycheck. It's not going to suddenly – someone's not going to be like, you know what we haven't done? We haven't recognized Aaron's X number of years of expertise in this particular thing. They're just not going to do that. And so any action you take outside of that is you consciously choosing to have less joy in your life. Sure. That's it.

And I hate that it's that simple. Or, dude, quit. Go work somewhere else. That's going to value your expertise, right? And that's putting the ball in your court. The one thing, the one injustice here that can be done is if you choose to go to work every day and poison the environment. Right.

If you choose to have offline conversations with other dudes who've been there a long time, other men and women who've been working their butts off and they're not making as much as these young kids in that department, that's injustice. That's unfair. Right? Because at the end of the day, you shook hands on a deal. And if you can go get a better deal down the street, go get it, man. Go get it. Or if you can choose to put down these bricks of, well, what about them? What about them? And just accept, we shook hands. He says he's going to pay me 70,000 bucks a year. That was a great deal for me and my family Until I found out he was paying her 150 grand Maybe she negotiated better

Maybe she's got a graduate degree Maybe he's got plans or she's got plans To take this company in a totally different direction At the end of the day Getting inside people's heads and trying to figure that stuff out Is just going to weigh you down Values in a company is a big deal to me If I feel like Values, we are dishonoring people.

We are not telling the truth. I will walk out the door. And I live my life in a way where I don't owe people money, where my wife and I live pretty frugally. I drive an 06 truck. Somebody door dinged me the other day and they were just like their face lost all the color and i just started laughing and i was like dude that's why i drive an 06 truck that's just one less thing for me to worry about right um i live my life in a way so that i can always be attached to my values and that's just a way we've chosen to live and And that's why I work at a values-based company that loves people, whose core philosophy is if we help enough people, the money part takes care of itself. But we're going to help people and help people and help people.

And that's where we're going to default to. So, Aaron, I get the pain here, and I don't want to be dismissive of you, brother, and I appreciate the call. I understand what it feels like to be in a room and not feel like you're being valued. I've been there. I understand what it feels like to be in a room and not feel like you're being valued. I've been there. I understand what it's like to be making a certain dollar amount and they hire a new kid and they're making more than you. I've been there. But I also understand the futility of trying to grasp and hold on to things that you can't control. Just look at the things you can control, which are your attitude, which is how hard you're going

to work and your set of values. And anything that falls outside of those three things, set them down. And if you can't reconcile those three things, go get another job, man. You're a good guy. You work hard. You put the time in. Go find someone that will value you. I really appreciate your call, brother.

Thanks to everybody who called. I'm going to leave us today with a classic. The song of the day is a classic from 1988. The self-titled record B Squared, they called him. Mr. Bobby Brown

writing the classic. My prerogative. Bobby writes, everybody's talking all this stuff about me. Why don't they just let me live? Tell me why. I don't need permission to make my own decisions. Oh, that's my prerogative.

It's my prerogative. It's the way that I want to live. I can do just what I feel. No one can tell me what to do because what I'm doing, I'm doing for you. It's my prerogative. Bobby, you should call my friend Aaron and let him know. It's your prerogative too. This has been the Dr. John Deloney Show. you