The Dr. John Delony Show - Our House Burned Down and It Was My Fault

Episode Date: June 13, 2022

In today’s show, we’re talking with a husband who’s unable to trust his wife emotionally, a young mom dealing with guilt after accidentally burning her family’s home down, and a business owner struggling to hire competent and loyal employees. Lyrics of the Day: "40" - U2 Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Of all the people that have hurt me the most, it's kind of been her. How has she hurt you, Kaysen? She's tried leaving twice. Her whole life is, I'm going to do things the way I want them done, and if I can't get them that way, I'm going to storm off by myself. What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Hope you're doing good. Hope you're doing well. Hope you feel good. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. Or go to johndeloney.com slash ask.

And remember, we're taking your confessions. If you got stuff that you need to get off your chest, you never told anybody. Things you did, things that have been done to you, give us a shout. Go to johndeloney.com slash ask and just put confession in the little box where you type in and put it in there and of course if you hurt kids

or you have abused people I'm going to call the cops on you and I'm going to try to put you in jail other than that we'll keep you anonymous right I'm just getting calls from all over the planet about people thinking they're the only one

struggling with stuff that they've been sitting on something for a long long time I talk a lot about how secrets are the gasoline the jet fuel for shame and you just can't live a life of these secret secret secret secrets and so man we're gonna have a new segment on the show it's called confession so give us a shout.

Go to johndeloney.com slash ask. All right, let's go to Casey in Boise. What's up, Casey? Hey, Dr. John. How are you, man? Oh, not too bad. Hanging in there. Excellent.

What's up, dude? So I just got done reading your new book. Really enjoyed it. There's only like 10 people bought that book man so thank you for being one of them oh that's alright I loved it we're reading it though the section where you talk

about kind of having a box where you have a small number of people you really confide in you know you have a small number of people you really confide in. You have a spiritual advisor and a close friend, one or two, and you also include your wife in there. And I guess my question is, I feel like I can't include my wife in there. And I really want to because she's my spouse and I love her, but I'm just really struggling with how to include her in that. Man.

So let me back out real quick and explain for folks. If you're new to the show, this idea of a box on your counter, if you will, comes from a conversation I had in a counseling class. I was getting my PhD in counseling and we were in a classroom and we were talking about who hurts our feelings and, um, ultimately landed on, I, people can, can fire me and take away my livelihood. Someone could shoot me and kill me. Somebody can, um, break my leg. Right. But ultimately I am responsible. I get to choose who hurts me. And I realized in that class, I give, had, was giving access to everybody. It's people on the internets I didn't know, politicians, friends of a friend, 40 people that I was a, you know, a colleague with.

I was giving permission for everybody. And I was walking around, raged out, hurt feelings, sad. Every time I come up for air, somebody else would say, I just realized I was letting everybody in, inside, in my chest, if you will, to hurt my feelings. And so the exercise was, limit it to five. And so I started saying, okay, who do I let speak into my life? And good grief. So I cut out all of the parents of my students because they would call in and they'd say something like, you failed my kid. And I would be crushed by that. I didn't mean to fail. I didn't want to fail your kid. Finally, I was like, I'm not giving you, you don't get to hurt my feelings.

You know, you can say I am crummy professionally, but I can't hurt my feelings. I was giving access to my in-laws, to my parents. They'd give me parenting advice and I'd be like, I'm the worst. I took them out. And so ultimately in my little box, I ended up with a person,

one or two people who were, that I really valued their wisdom. They were older than me. They were mentors, but they were spiritual. They were people that I trusted. Hey, I'm about to make this big life change. What do you think?

And then I had several close friends that I've been ride or die with for a long time. I think I got mine down to six. I don't remember exactly what it was. And then the first person was my wife. And I actually called them, including my wife, and said, hey, I'm giving you access to me. And I'm a tough Texas male. I know I'm not supposed to talk like this, but you now have permission to hurt me. You have permission to speak into my life. So if you see me doing something stupid, call me out like you always do.

If you think I'm being dumb or the clothes I'm wearing are ridiculous, you have permission to say something. I'm going to listen to you. And my wife was a key person to put in there. So that's the backstory there. So then back to Casey, my obvious question

is, man, why can't you, why can't you put her there? Why, why is that so terrifying? Well, you know, I, I had a really stable childhood growing up and very, you know, normal and secure and loving. And so I didn't have a lot of, you know, as your book talks about, you know, trauma, childhood trauma or anything like that. You know, of all the people that have hurt me the most, it's kind of been her. And so it's just really been a struggle. How has she hurt you, Casey?

Um, you know, well, she's tried leaving twice. She just, uh, puts the kids, you know, over, over me ever since the first kid was born. And, and, uh, you know, she just, uh, just not a priority that way. And when we try to have a deep discussion or really open up, it usually turns argumentative. And, you know, it's just not a very secure place for that kind of thing. I'm sorry, man. It's been pretty tough. Yeah. I'm sorry, man. It's been pretty tough.

Yeah. I mean, I can't wrap my head around that, man. That hurts, dude. How long have y'all been married? 17 years. Oh, man. Yeah, and the trade leaving has been twice in the last probably two years. Okay.

And I'm hearing that all over the country. There's been a lot of chaos the last few years, and so it's been a mess, of course. Have you all ever gone to counseling together? Yeah, we did the first time when it really came to a head about two years ago. Okay. We went through counseling, and that was very good and very encouraging and, you know, but the counselor was kind of pretty hard on her and because the whole time I'm thinking, am I doing everything right, you know, and I write in my thought process and the counselor

kind of, and it's a counselor that she chose, but yet the counselor was kind of affirmed, trying to do everything right in my marriage and my family and in life. She was the one that had a bunch of things to work on, and she didn't really respond very well to that. She said, yeah, it all sounds good, but then nothing changed. Is she seeing somebody else?

No, I don't think so. Okay. Has she before in the marriage? No, not that I'm aware of. And I've never seen any evidence of that. I'm just trying to, I'm not accusing her. I'm just trying to see all the variables here in a short time frame. But here's. She just doesn't think very deeply about things, you know.

Yeah, I get that. But that's different. It sounds like she has no interest in helping meet your needs and that her whole life is I'm going to do things the way I want them done and if I can't get them that way I'm going to storm off by myself I'm going to take my ball and go home

and we could have a whole woo woo conversation about the wounded child and all that but that's a very childish response well I'm just going to leave then you know what I mean, we could have a whole woo-woo conversation about the wounded child and all that, but that's a very childish response. Well, I'm just going to leave then. You know what I mean? And so here's where I'm torn, man. I'm torn in two ways.

Number one, you do not put people in that quote-unquote, in that mythical box here that you don't trust, that you can't be vulnerable with, you can't open up to. And also your marriage is really on life support right now. And I know you know that. It sounds like one of those moments to sit down and have one of those conversations is like, we are now adults choosing to live this life and it's miserable.

Why are we doing this? Can we decide to make this different? And the heartbreaking answer to that question is, unfortunately, I don't want to do that with you. And so what I'll tell you is there's this weird chicken or the egg thing that happens with that box, if you will, where somebody hurts you that you love and forgiveness is hard, grief is hard,

like reconciliation, saying I'm sorry can be hard. All those things are hard, but then you pull that person out of your box. They feel that gap. And it creates just a tiny shim of space. And that space just grows over time. See what I'm saying? And so it just feels like one of those moments,

and you've probably heard me say this on the show, where you just got to turn all the lights on, turn all the music off, the dance got stopped for a minute. We just got to say, dude, what are we doing? Because right now we're adults and we're choosing to live a less than life. And I don't understand,

it seems like a bizarre choice to be making. You're choosing to not meet my needs. I'm still trying to meet yours. And I can't imagine this doesn't affect your sex life. It doesn't affect your work life. It doesn't affect that just going home and having home be a warm, safe place to drop your shoulders and go, ah, but instead you get off work and you go home, and now it's like another job, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, and she doesn't openly acknowledge that there's a problem. She looks around at our friends and our family and the world and goes,

well, we're in marriage. It's fine. There's nothing wrong with it. It's all good. I'm just like, there's this deep, no, things aren't. I don't think they are. So if you came, sat down tonight after dinner and said, hey, I'd like to go back and see a counselor again with the two of us. Because things might be fine, but fine's not good enough for me.

I want things to be incredible. And I'm willing to do some work. Are you willing to do some work? What would she say? I think she would say that things are fine the way they are, and we've already been down this road. Or she would say, you know, I'm the bad one, you're the good one. She'd beat herself up and say, well, I'm the one that has all the problems. Yeah, that's just like nonsensical.

Bring this stuff into the marriage. Yeah, yeah. That's just a throwaway. Oh, it's just all me. You know what I mean? And then you back up and go, no, it's me too. I sometimes leave the toothpaste cap out. That's just a move. You know what I mean? Okay, I sometimes leave the toothpaste cap out. That's just like a, that's just a move.

You know what I mean? Okay. Here's, here's the hard, man, I didn't see this call going in this direction. What is your or what? What I mean by that is I can hear it in you you're getting closer and closer to an or what moment what is your or what moment meaning I need you to do this things around here have to change or what are you going to leave I don't think my or what is, is to leave because I've made a, you know,

biblical covenant with her in marriage. And I've talked to a lot of, to those other people in my box about it. And the consensus kind of is, it's like, well, marriage is the highest thing. So you do whatever it takes to keep it together and keep it going. But I always wonder at what cost. Absolutely. And I really struggle with that. And I want her to be in the box. I want her to be closer.

I do love her deeply, but it's just... She's not safe. She's not trustworthy, right? Yeah. So here's what you can do right now in this season. If I'm you, I would go find a professional to talk to on your own. In this variable, that's the only person you can be about because you need some clarity moving forward.

I haven't expanded. This is completely John Deloney here. Okay. This is just a personal thing. I have an expanded view of infidelity. I think for people who are in biblical covenant marriages, this idea of unfaithfulness is much deeper than did so-and-so hook up with somebody else. It's much, much deeper than that.

Faithfulness and fidelity is I'm all in. Physically, I'm not going to sleep with somebody else. Emotionally, spirit, like I'm not going to sleep with somebody else emotionally. Like I'm in. And when I'm part of the reason why this unity isn't working here, I am going to, from a point of fidelity and a point of faithfulness to this agreement we made, I'm going to make some changes in my life, even when they're ugly and messy and really, really hard. And so faithfulness to me is a much broader picture than somebody slept with somebody else.

Okay? Now, that's not shared by ministers and pastors all over the place. That's fine. What that means is there's millions and millions and millions and millions of couples who haven't stepped out on their marriage, haven't kissed anybody else. And they say, I'm unfaithful. Yet they have absolutely no play. They're not doing anything to help love their partner better, to help make this union stronger, to say I'm sorry and do work on themselves that they need to do so that the whole unit can be well and by the way these kids

are absorbing this stuff they're just absorbing it and they're coming to understand well I guess this is just what marriage is I guess this is how moms roll I guess this is just what dads do and so this whole idea of faithfulness and fidelity is a much

much bigger thing than who put what where. It is, I'm all in, and right now, Casey, dude, I didn't expect this call to get here, man. I don't blame you. It's not safe to put her in there right now, and the long-term viability of your marriage is on really thin ice, and so what I'll tell you is at some point, something here changes, The long-term viability of your marriage is on really thin ice. And so what I'll tell you is at some point, something here changes. And when I know something's going to change, I always want to be on the proactive side. If I have a retaining wall at the back of my farm and I see it starting to bend, I don't want to wait until it collapses. I'm going to call somebody out.

I'm going to save the money up. I'm going to call somebody out. I'm going to save the money up. I'm going to call somebody out and have them come build it and dig it out. Otherwise, I'm going to have a huge mess on my hands. That wall's getting dealt with one way or the other. I want to deal with it as far up the front end as I possibly can. Sorry, brother. We'll be thinking about you. We'll be right back.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. We'll be right back. A lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist.

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Let's go to Jessica in Missouri. What's up, Jessica? Hi. So my question is, how do I deal with basically being a single parent when my husband works at night? And on top of that, we just had a fire like three weeks ago. I have a 15-month-old and a five-month-old, and I also work. So how do I deal with life, basically? Your whole life is on fire.

Yeah. Wow. Okay, so... Hi, Jessica. It's good to meet you. Hi. Wow. Okay, so Hi, Jessica. It's good to meet you. Hi. Hope you're doing well. What's your favorite band? I don't have one.

I listen to a lot of music. So I don't have a favorite. So you're a serial killer. That's good. All right. So 10 months in five months?

What? 15 months in five months? 15 months in five months. They're 10 months and 5 months? Wait, what? 15 months and 5 months? 15 months and 5 months. They're 10 months and 25 days apart. Are they adopted? Are they biological? Biological. We had one in February last year and one in December of last year.

Dude, I'm high-fiving you all the way from Nashville. Wow, okay. So, yeah, y'all are, there's y'all are crazy. No, it's not that it's not crazy. It's I think it's awesome, but y'all are in it. But then there's like, y'all are in it, in it. Okay. So tell me what happened to your house. Total loss. What happened? So we had a mobile home, um, that we owned and we were like six months away from being fully out of debt and then saving to buy a house. And my five month old had thrush and my husband was working at night. So I

was, you know, dealing with both children and had to boil the bottles and all that. I fell asleep while boiling the bottles and our kitchen basically went up in flames. Oh, no. So is it a total loss? A lot of smoke damage. Not full total loss, but it's not worth replacing. So now we're fighting with insurance just to get the money we're supposed to get so that we can then buy a house. We've been with his parents the past month, so it's a lot. Have you already had the fire inspector come out and write you a letter

that this is what happened? Yep. We have a fire report and all that. It's just insurance came back real, real low like they always do and so now we have a back and forth. Sheesh. Alright, so tell me about husband.

Husband is fantastic. He's an amazing dad. He's just an amazing human being. He's like my best friend. And we've been through it since we got married, and this is just another thing. But it's just constant. And he holds fuel. So he works Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday nights.

And then he's also working on trying to get out of a truck. So he's also doing electrical work to get his hours Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Gotcha. And he has to stay up all night Thursday so that he can sleep Friday so that he can work all night Friday night. So he's really only around Tuesday, Wednesday. Maybe half a Tuesday. Yeah, Wednesday. Maybe. Half a Tuesday. And by the way, you know what you should probably do right now is just live with your in-laws.

That sounds like a good... Oh, man. Yeah. So here's the bad news. The bad news is I want you to take as deep a breath as you possibly can

and just hold it will you do that hold it three four then let it go and I want you to drop your shoulders pull them down like as low as they'll go

okay you have to own the grief of the season you're in. Your house is gone and you're going to have some guilt. Please don't roll it into shame. You're going to have some guilt because you put the bottles on the stove, right? And you fell asleep. And guilt is, I can't believe I fell asleep and then the house burned down. Shame is, I'm a terrible mother and I'm a terrible wife and I'm a terrible family partner because I burned the house down. You see the difference? Yeah.

One is, yes, I feel guilty. I did this, like all this mess. We're living here because I did this. And that happens. If you try to run from that, it will chase you down. So you got to own that. And I don't want you to start looking at that as an identity or a character issue, okay? Here's the good news. Everything you're describing to me is seasonal. I'm just looking at six months and 12 months down the road and how different things are going to be.

You're going to have your own home. Your husband's going to be out of a truck working a regular job. Your kids are, you're not going to be just constantly rotating between feeding and changing diapers 24-7, 365 over and over and over again. Your life is going to look incredibly different. And so what we're talking about here is how do we maintain during the hold hard winter? Does that sound fair? Yes. Because it feels like your whole world is on top of you, doesn't it?

Yeah, I essentially got married almost four years ago because he did construction for our entire dating relationship. And like two months after we got married, he got in a truck and was gone for two or three months at a time for two years. And then when we got pregnant he found a job that was gone during the week and then home on the weekend and then when we had our first daughter then he was nighttime. So it was a lot of

things that have happened since we got married. This is going to sound like a crazy question because you're surrounded by people who love you, but are you lonely? At times, yeah. Sounds like it'd be lonely a lot. When my girls are awake, they're fantastic and they help.

Yeah. I'm just dragged from that. They are not. That's not what I mean. I mean, do you have two or three or four women in your life that come over and talk trash

and makes fun of you while you're making fun of them and like do you have those women in your life that bring casseroles over and all that stuff I would if I asked, but I don't ask. Okay. So the key to the next six to 12 months here

while your life is in transition is you make a firm commitment to your kids, to your husband, and bottom line to you that you're worth having friends and make a priority. I'm going to have people in my life on a daily basis, if not a weekly basis, and I'm going to start having friends. Even if they just come over and prop their feet up and

they do their homework because they're going back to school, or they just come over and all they do is hold your baby so you can just go close your eyes for a minute. All they do is come over and y'all watch some dumb Netflix show or whatever. Or it would be really great for you if they came over and y'all went for a walk and you got a double stroller and y'all went and moved your body. Okay. Got out of the house and went and moved. But I want you to make having human connection a high, high, high priority. Here's the second thing I want you to do. I said it a little bit. You got to get into some sort of movement. You got to move your body around.

Okay. Will you commit to that? Yeah. You don't got to go to CrossFit class like a lunatic, but you do got to get a double stroller and go for a walk a couple of times a day. At least once a day. Let me say that. A couple of times would be great.

Or if you can go for a run or your friend can come over and you can run to the gym, whatever. I'm not saying to go get bulk up. I'm saying just move your body. Okay? Here's the third thing. And I'm shooting in the dark here on this, okay? Have you gone back to your house? Yeah.

Yeah. Actually, this week we're taking everything out and sifting through everything. But have you gone back yet? Yep, I was there yesterday. How was it? It sucks every time I go. Tell me about it.

It just makes me feel sad. Yeah. If you can, I would love for you to get one of those girlfriends of yours or just go by yourself. Just go and be sad. Okay. There's something, there's a beacon that was home and it's not anymore. And you spent a lot of, two years alone in that place, pacing.

That's where your babies were born and they came home to. And now it's gone. Okay. Home. And I want you to go there and be real, real sad. Is that cool? Yeah. It's best if you go with somebody.

And this is going to sound like if somebody sees you doing what I'm about to tell you to do, they're going to think they're probably going to call a psych ward on you, okay? I would love for you to take a friend over and just kind of walk through the house and talk about where the memories were. This is the room that we brought five-month-old to. Home to. And this is the room that we brought five month home to. And this is the room. This is where five month old was conceived.

And this is right. And we're going to laugh and we're going to tell stories. And this is where I got mad and threw food against the wall. And this is where husband came home and always dropped his underwear. And it was gross. I want you to go through and feel this place. Okay. Cause it was gross. I want you to go through and feel this place. Okay? Because it's home. And right now,

home has become a epicenter of trauma for you. It's become a nuclear reactor. And I want to change that in your body to where it is a warm place that's got some laughter and some joy in it and some great sadness because we're not going to live there anymore. And by the way, you're about to move

anyway. Right? You're working to live there anymore. And by the way, you're about to move anyway, right? You're working really hard to move. And so this wasn't your forever place. It just got expedited. So we're going to go there. We're going to walk through it. We're going to talk about it and we're going to make peace with it and we're going to kick our shoes the dust off our shoes when we leave.

And then when you go back, it's going to feel different. You're going to feel lighter. And then you go back and you're going to start moving and get all your crap out of there, get your stuff out. And then you're going to leave that to the burned out box that it is. But your home's going to go with you. Does all that make sense? Yeah. Sounds super woo-woo and cheesy.

If you tell your husband, the over-the-road trucker, like, all right, this is what this guy told me to do. He's going to be like, you probably should never listen to that podcast ever again. Oh, no, he listens to y'all and Dave. He probably listens to Dave and you way too much, honestly, at night, because then he festers and just thinks and thinks and thinks and then tells me all the things in the morning.

So it sounds like you got a husband that's working, absolutely working his butt off because he loves his family and he wants to make things different. Is that true? Yeah, 100%. And you got two unbelievable beautiful little kids that are just too much right now, but they're still beautiful.

Yeah. And you got a couple of friends who would, at a moment's notice, come in and come be a part of your life, but you just won't call? Pretty much. And you've got two in-laws that are just, they're in-laws, so they just, what are you going to say? But they also open up their home to you, right?

You see what I'm saying? Yeah. Here's what I'm getting at. You have to feel this grief. You got to own this grief because it's real and don't miss the beauty. Don't miss the light coming through the darkness because there's a lot of light around you

is what I'm hearing, okay? Yeah. We keep saying that we've fought many a battle since we got married and this is the war and God's working all the little miracles around it and it's really hard to see all the little miracles when you're in this shit of what we're going through.

That's right. So here's what I'm going to do. I want to change your language, okay? I want you to no longer, you're not in war anymore. What you've been doing for the last four years is the little farm y'all had, the soil was terrible. It was full of rocks and thorns and weeds and nonsense. And y'all have been working for four years to change the soil, to clean that soil up, to regenerate and to heal that soil.

And now y'all are planting. I'm much rather a planting metaphor or planting seeds of trees that we might not ever even eat the fruit off of them. But now we're planting. Because what that tells me is at the end of a war, there's a bunch of dead bodies to pick up. At the end of a good planting season is the harvest. And that is a radically different psychological proposition for your body. And so let's tell your husband,

we're not fighting war anymore. I declare war over, war's over. We're planting, we're getting ready. We're turning this sucker around. And he has worked, you have worked. You spent countless lonely nights, countless single parenting nights, countless nights getting advice from your mother-in-law. Gosh.

Countless nights just wishing your husband wasn't such a great hard worker and he would just come home and sit on the couch, all stinky mess of him, and just hug you. All of that work y'all have put in. The harvest is going to be big. It's going to be big. I'm super proud of you, Jessica. Go make that call today, okay?

Go make that call. We'll be right back. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving and life change and job change, and you've got a tornado of anxiety

fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make. This is not a good idea. So if you're a new homebuyer right now, my advice to you is to focus on what you can control, like the people you choose to help you in the homebuying process. You need folks like my friends at Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is a Ramsey trusted provider that's been helping people with their home mortgages for decades. And their home buyer

edge program will help you skip a bunch of the stress. Here's how it works. Apply to become a Churchill certified home buyer and cap your interest rate for 90 days. Then you'll get a $5,000 seller guarantee to help your offer stand out. So go ahead, take a deep breath because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillemortgage.com slash D'Loni and get the home buyer edge today. All right, we are back. Let's take one more. Let's go to Mexico City, Mexico

and talk to Dan. What's up, Dan? Dan. You're John, right? That's right, man. Yeah, that's your name, dude. What up? I'm all right.

I'm doing well. So I've got kind of a... I mean, I really like that last call. I've got a little bit of like an entree leadership question for you. Okay. Hey, talk directly into your phone. Okay. Okay. How's that? Perfect. Much, much better. Perfect. Okay. So you got, you got a leadership question for me. Okay, so I'm an ex-minister turned founder owner of a for-profit company here in Central Mexico. Six full-time employees. I've come to see a pattern that I've got in collecting skilled people that are also sometimes kind of broken and complicated.

And I tend to form these really cool, close mentoring relationships with at least some of them. Um, and that's sometimes resulted in like, um, I don't know, cool kind of Holy spirit moments and, and really deep loyalty to the team from these people, commitment and stuff like that. Uh, but they're not always, or at least those mentorship activities and time expenditures are not always advancing like the cause of the company and certainly not the bottom line always, right? I've heard Dave say that management is ministry. And I love that phrase, but I'm not, I don't think I'm real clear about how to manage that tension, you know, people and then getting stuff done.

Yeah, absolutely. Great, great question, man. I'm glad you have, I mean, anybody working for you is going to be fortunate, right, because you have a heart of service and you don't just want to crank out a bunch of paper dollars and a bunch of widgets. You want people to be well,

right? You want people to have good lives. You have people have better lives because they interacted with Dan. And I think that's incredible, right? That's so good. So underneath all of this, I want you to keep this one idea. If the business goes away, you help nobody. You got that? Yeah, that's a fail. That's right. So we're not helping a customer. We're not helping our local community because we're dumping tax dollars back into it. We're not helping with any of our service or giving that our company does, and we're not helping our employees. So if the business goes away, my mission to help other people is over. I got to do something else. Okay. So all of my training and all of my, um,

enlightenment and growth opportunities in the work setting have to be geared toward helping this business to be successful. Whatever that looks like. That doesn't always mean grow. That doesn't always mean shrink. That doesn't always mean shrink. It just, whatever success as you define it. If you do that and you give people a purpose, the growth will happen. And you train people, the growth will happen.

But we're not just training them indiscriminately. We're training them towards getting well. Now, the word ministry, I get kind of a jarred reaction to it. Yeah. It's kind of like a, ugh, right? And I'm always rolled back to what the great Rich Mullins says,

which is be weary of anybody that says they're doing a thing and then they're doing their ministry. As though ministry is something you just duct tape onto the side of something that you want to be doing. And he goes on to say, ministry is flushing the toilet. It's tipping well. It's taking care of the custodian. It's making sure you're the last one to eat. We've professionalized ministry, and we think it's all about trying to get people to be spiritual in the way that we think that they should be spiritual.

Ministry is service, okay? And so I'm going to be about serving these folks, making sure their lives are good. Or as Dave has told me personally, if you're not good at home, you're no good here. So leave my building and go home to your family, right? He's told me that before. So that looks great. But all of that is in service to them growing as people so that this business can survive

so we can all eat. See what I'm saying? It's both and, not one or the other. What it sounds like, and can I challenge you on something? Dude, tell me I'm wrong. I know a lot of ex-ministers. I've worked with a lot of ex-ministers

and current ministers that wish they were ex-ministers who have an addiction to other people's problems. They find their value, their esteem, in making sure other people's problems are solved. Is that you? Okay.

If it's not, cool. That's interesting. You know what? I will certainly chew on and reflect on that, but I am tempted to say that I've got a reasonably healthy relationship to that thing. Yeah, I'm on the same page. It was a big revelation to me to leave the professional Christian job title and actually be serving as under the Lord, uh, and through for profit that, you know, in that, uh, capitalist world out here, I love business. I've since I found Dave Ramsey and, and I, and I love fixing problems in the marketplace. Um, but I, uh, yeah, I don't know about, I don't know about addiction. I will reflect.

That's great. I don't want to put, uh, I don't want to put thoughts in your head that aren't there, right? I just want to make sure you're not hiring people that may have a little bit of a bent. And listen. A little bit of a dropers and yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's kind of part of the question, yeah. And so you wrote, I tend to have employees. I tend to find employees that are broken and complicated.

What I would tell you is that's all of us. That's all of us. Every employee you're going to have is going to be fighting wars that you as a boss don't know about. All of them. Whether they're past wars that keep showing up or they're future wars that haven't happened yet or they're current wars. Every employee, and that's the messiness of working with people. I have had to have a radical conversion of my soul since I started working here. Because I worked in nonprofits for 20 years. I worked in education settings and colleges and universities and K-12 situations.

And I didn't even mean to. I thought I was doing the good stuff and business was just keeping the lights on for the world. And since joining this squad, I have been astounded at how wrong I was. folks in my life who are 100% in the business to make money and to skirt taxes and to lift their own lives up. And you've been around those people too. The opposite, I work for a company whose sole mission, I would say pathologically so, is serving a customer. Because behind closed doors here, well, then give it away. Then just give it to them. Then just give it to them, right?

Then we're going to spend extra money to make sure this person's life is a little bit better. And so every conversation here relentlessly is, well, what about the person on the other end of this call? What about the person on the other end of this call? What about the person on the other end of this book? And so I have had to – my whole insides have changed. Now I don't judge either one of these things. I look at the people in the organization and say, who are you about serving? Right?

So I'll tell you, it's taken me a minute to get there. It was so jarring. And maybe you're just starting to have to reconcile some of the thoughts you had as a minister and be okay with making a profit, making money. And it's okay. In fact, it's right. It's noble. It's good. It's how you make a profit and how you honor people. Is that, are you feeling at peace with your new role? A thousand percent. Like Dave Ramsey, you know, pro-business, pro-Christian ethical capitalism thing was a bombshell for me. And I'm, I'm all in and very excited about, I have more kind of like Holy Spirit goosebump moments in a month maybe than I did in five years as a minister. And I'm just in my calling and I'm in my channel.

But I, yeah, but, you know, and I agree. I'm not, the business is not like at the brink of, you know, catastrophe because we're sitting around in prayer meetings all day when we should be getting stuff done. But I feel like there's maybe a moment of like a decision between like excellence in the marketplace versus mediocrity and, and some, uh, some kind of more touchy feely, uh, types of things that don't always directly connect to,

you know, the, the tactical progress. Yes. Um. I love that. So what I would tell you is... You know, devils in the details, maybe. I don't know. I'm just kind of feeling out that tension, I guess. The tension will always exist. Okay? The marketplace is a beast that can never be fed. It'll never be satisfied. There has to come a moment when you say enough. Our company is as big as we want it to be. We have enough revenue. We don't just need to continually mindlessly

scour the earth for quote unquote more. Or we're going to find a different person with a different challenges to go serve and help, right? We're going to give them, create a widget for them. We're going to create a program for them or whatever your business, we're going to make sure their lawn is done right so that they have more time to go back with their families, right? So whatever that thing is that we're doing, I'm going to make

sure their toilets are super, super, super clean so that nobody gets sick so that they can walk in their house and drop their shoulder, right? So whatever your service is that you're getting paid for, let's do excellence across the board. And let's go back and look at the things that we're doing in the office, the why behind what we're doing with how we're honoring our people. And I think honoring is good. I think having time for reading and reflection,

spiritual growth, those things are good because they ultimately lead to a great, a stronger, healthier, well-rounded human that also can then show up and be really good at work. And that person can be really good at home. And then that person can go to sleep at night and repeat the, right?

You see what I'm saying? So it all works together. And if our business is well, then we all have food and lights and transportation and water, right? So it all works together. It's the segmenting out that makes it a mess. So go back with an eye for intentionality

and start looking at here are the things that we do. Here's the conversations that we have. Here are the quote unquote activities that we do. How is that leading to the end person that we are serving in the marketplace? How does that make the person that works for me, how am I serving them? And let's be hyper-intentional about that linear fashion there. Does that make sense?

Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's a framework. It's going to be a learning curve to kind of figure out what that looks like on a, on a day-to-day thing. But that's, that makes sense. There's also time, um, there's also time to do things out of the office. What I have found as a leader, um, one of the last, I think I may have talked about this on the show. One of the last, um, performance evals I had at the university was,

I got one negative thing on it. And it was, Deloney, you have to stop running into burning buildings. We have people that do that. Your job is to be at the command central and make sure everything's running, right? That was a shift for me. And my boss, who's a great man, he called it out. And he said, hey, that's not your job anymore.

And dude, I miss the burning buildings. I know that sounds crazy. I miss the adrenaline. I miss going to help people right in the middle of the moment. But my job became helping the people that are helping the people. And so I had to shift everything. Yeah, go ahead. And the discipline to say no to opportunities where you could help because they are not, I don't know, that's a sometimes thing.

Like, no, I'm not going to go show up in that opportunity to serve or help because it's out of my scope or it's out of the tracks from this bigger cause. And that's a hard thing. And maybe, honestly, there's maybe some like what you were talking about before, like underlying ego of like it feels good to show up and have a right answer or a game-changing thing. Yes, the best. I'm distrustful of how good that feels. Oh, dude, I love it.

I love it. But what I had to learn as a leader is, yes, I could solve your problem. My job right now is to refer you to a professional and then get you the help and care that you need. And I don't have to be that person for every single person. In fact, I can't be. And if I try to be, then I am using time and energy on something that somebody else can do probably better than me closer to that is going to take away from something else. And so what I'm looking at across the country right now, and I'm going to be speaking to 3,000 business leaders in a few days. They are drowning in their employees' mental health challenges. And they love their employees,

just like you do, right? Just like my company does. Loves the people. And we're going to take care of you. But the way we're going to take care of you is by scaffolding and resources. We cannot be everybody's therapist. If you run an electrician shop, it's unethical. You're not qualified to be their marriage therapist or their counselor or their grief counselor, whatever. What you can do is say, hey, dude, you're welcome to leave an hour early this week. Get out of here. Go to see your counselor.

Everybody, if y'all need to go see somebody, feel free to knock off an hour. I'll even pay you for it. Go see somebody and then get your butt back here and get back to work. Right? Or hey, your mom just passed away. You let me know when you can come back. Go. Go be with your family. We'll figure it out next week. Right? That's the way you can serve and honor somebody. And you've got a list of five counselors in your building to call or two whatevers. And you tell people, hey guys, I can't come to every graduation, every birthday and every crisis. I just, I can't make all of that. I want y'all to tell me who you have in your life that you can, that will go with you and teach them how to cultivate those relationships in their lives. So you're teaching them how to fish, right? Yeah. And that's generational changing because then they're going to learn

how to have friends and close relationships. And they're going to learn how to look in a book and call a fur therapist and go show up for that appointment. And their kids are going to watch that happen. And now you're talking about legacy change and generational change. And you're going to watch people

who were trapped in addiction cycles. And for you, this is a ministry. This is bigger, right? You want them to meet. Are you a Christian? Oh yeah. Yeah. You want them to meet Jesus then. And you're going to model what that looks like so that they learn how to go about and do that. See what I'm saying? It's just shifting your role. As a minister, your job is to show up to everything. As a leader, your job is to show up and teach people how to. See what I'm saying? Yeah. If I'm paraphrasing back to you kind of the takeaway or like a practical step,

like one of those thoughts that's big for me, outsourcing help rather than always being the help for team members making space forward or provisions, but not always kind of being the is, is the, um, saying no to perfectly good places where I could show up and make a difference because it's, because it's outside the scope. And, you know, I guess I need to get a framework for, we're super small. There's, you know, there's only, there's, there's only nine of us total. And so, you know, we know each other well and, uh, and I'm very accessible and I don't know what point that, what, what kinds of boundaries start coming up as, as, as scale, you know, when, when it's time to say that's outside of my scope and I need to let someone else

do that or I need to just, or maybe there is no one else who's going to do that, but I can't, I can't take my off the prize right now to go show up for that. Some of that is I sat down with my team three universities ago because I was on call 24, seven, three 65. So I got every single call and I couldn't do it anymore. And I had 13, I think 15, I don't remember how many it was. It was a chunk. And finally I said, if someone's going to the hospital, somebody's suicidal, call me. Everything else I trust you guys to deal with.

Yeah. And dude, you know what I got for the first time ever? Sleep. And I got to spend uninterrupted time for a season with my family. And that allowed me to show up even more full and better the next day

so that I could love the people that were working for me. I could honor the end customer there and I could start that whole cycle over again. And so play a long game here with your team, not death by BB gun. I'm gonna show up at every single thing, every single thing. No, I'm going to create a entire ecosystem of support and care that sometimes includes me, but usually doesn't. And it's going to include referrals and other people and you guys stepping up and y'all calling each other and y'all getting your own friends.

And y'all getting your own church or whatever that looks like for your company. I'm going to create an ecosystem. Much, much different. It's actually much harder than just showing up and doing it yourself. But that's what leadership is. And dude, Dan, I'm proud of you, man. Those guys working for you are lucky,

lucky, lucky to have you as their team leader. That's incredible. Thank you so much for the call. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out

or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com.

All right, we are back. As we wrap up today's show, the song is from the one and only U2. And the song is 40, and it goes like this. I waited patiently for the Lord. He inclined and heard my cry. He brought me up out of the pit, out of the miry clay. I will sing a new song.

How long to sing this new song? You sit my feet upon a rock and made my made my footsteps firm many will see many will see and hear and i will sing a new song but how long to sing this song i don't know i guess you'll have to come back and listen again we'll see you soon coming up on the next episode. When I'm in a vehicle with somebody else, especially as a passenger, my anxiety is through the roof. Oh, there's nothing, nothing that husbands like more. And their wife is like, you know what? You should be doing it. Yes, and that's exactly me.

I tell him what to do. Turn here. Look here. Look out for that car. Don't do that, Sherry. Don't do that. I am 31, but I have cerebral palsy. I walk independently with no assistant devices or anything like that, but I just struggle in this one area when it comes to dating because I just don't feel like

I'm the one someone's going to choose.