The Dr. John Delony Show - Our Marriage is a Vicious Cycle of Verbal & Emotional Abuse

Episode Date: January 10, 2022

In today’s episode, we’re talking with a couple who needs to heal from their traumatic pasts, a husband who wants to stop hulking out when he gets upset, and a rock-star boss who wants to learn how he can support his struggling employee. Husband & I need to cut ties with our parents after traumatic childhoods Our marriage has become a vicious cycle of anger & verbal abuse How do I support an employee who suffers from Bipolar disorder? Lyrics of the Day: "Hands Down" - Dashboard Confessional Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we talk about dealing with big T trauma and family history. We talked to a guy who's starting to act like a child in response to his wife's emotional abuse, and he wants to know what to do. We talked to a guy who's a great boss, and he wants to be a little bit better. Stay tuned. What's up? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. We talk about mental health, relationships, relational IQ, changing your life, owning what happened in the past, making changes for tomorrow, for today, for today. We're a few weeks into the new year. Man, I hope your new resolutions are crushing.

I hope you are leaning into things. You're stepping into things. You're swinging into things, whatever it looks like for you, and you're making it happen. Hope your marriages are good. Your kids are doing all right. If they're not, stop the presses and get that stuff under control now. It's a new year.

It's a new year. It's a new year. And good to see you, Kelly. Thank you. Good to be here. Benjamin. Good to be here. Seeing your face and not James is so good. I miss him.

I agree. Thank you. James is just stunningly handsome. You're not so much, but I like seeing you. I'm just kidding. You look great. That's fair. You look great.

You look just fantastic. And Kelly, I will just say you are brilliant and very kind. Thank you very much. People on the internet don't like me telling you that you look beautiful today. I don't mind. They don't like it. I don't like it. That's on them.

Oh, and there's the director of HR walking out here. I see how this thing goes. Just started here and down it went. Let's go to Ray in Raleigh, North Carolina started here and down it went. Let's go to Ray in Raleigh, North Carolina. Beautiful part of the country. What's up, Ray? Hey, how you doing?

We're getting it. How about you? I'm doing pretty good. How about yourself? Yeah. We're all right. We're all right. If I told you that today

was just the greatest, I would be dishonest. But you know what? We're doing well. The heater and air conditioning works, and my paycheck deposited. So I'm going to count it good, and we're going to go from there. Okay, sounds good. So what's up?

Well, me and my husband have suffered some pretty big tree trauma growing up and are still going through some stuff now. Yeah, and need to know how to deal with it. Oh, hon. You said big T trauma, right? Yeah. So it's still sitting on you pretty tight because it's hard to even say it out loud.

Tell me what's going on. Okay, hon. Take a breath, take your time. Okay. Okay. So my mom was killed when I was little. Oh, man. And I was messed with when I was growing up. And my parents, my stepmom and my dad were pretty emotionally abusive.

And they became alcoholics whenever I turned 18. I think they may have suffered that whenever I was growing up, but I never noticed it until I turned 18. I was just kind of secluded and left to myself for the most part. Did they know about the sexual abuse? No, I've never told anyone except my husband and my best friend. Gotcha, okay. And my husband,

he was raped when he was 10 by a close family friend, and his mom was pretty sexually abusive towards him. And, I mean, pretty much our whole family were pretty emotionally abusive to us, but we have, like, no one. And the one person we thought we had this year to help us out was, um, our grandma on his side. And it turned out that she was just using us, uh, so that she can regain her relationship with her son, which is my husband's dad. And, um, everything that we were telling her and trying to confide in her, She was just relaying back to that, to the people that have abused us.

And I've got three awesome, beautiful girls and an awesome husband. And, you know, we've been through a lot and it's like every pregnancy I've had, it's like they've reared their ugly heads and showed up. And we sent them letters, both sets of parents. With my parents, I just told them, you know, I've already called them and asked them, hey, don't drink around the kids. You know, I know you've got an alcohol problem and I don't judge you for drinking. We don't care about that at all. I just don't want you doing drinking. We don't care about that at all. I just don't want you doing it when the kids are there.

And my stepmom has ended up calling my husband's, or not calling, she Facebooked my husband's mom and was like playing that Nana and a Boo Boo. I get to see the grandkids, and you don't card to her. So all that was screenshot by his dad and sent to him. Hey, do me a favor. Yes. Are you on your Do me a favor. Yes. Are you on your cell phone? Yes. Okay.

Take your phone and I'll just wait here for a second. And I want you to pull up your parents and I want you to delete their numbers from your phone. Okay. Or block them. I don't know the right way to do that. I just know they need to be out where they can't contact. You're done. Okay.

Well, I've already blocked them on Facebook. You're just done. Okay. And then I want you to take your in-laws and done. They're blocked. They can't contact you. They can't get in touch with you. They're not welcome around you.

They're not welcome around your family. Yeah. So that's... Hold on, hold on, hold on. Okay. They're done. Done. Yes. Okay. No more. They're done. Done. Yes. Okay.

No more. No more discussions. No more trying to make this thing work. No more being responsible for their brutality and their evil and their manipulation and their abuse and their silence. No more. Yeah.

You got three little girls that are worth more than that. You and your husband have found yourself on the other side of hell, but you're still chained to it. And you're going to find out those chains aren't clasped. You're holding on to those chains. I want you to let them go. Okay. And that's hard. But we're done.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, see, that's the problem I'm having. Me and my husband are a little out of disconnect with that. Okay. That's fine. That's fine. Here's the things you just laid out to me.

I bet your ACEs score is a seven or eight, if not more. I want you to get online today in ACEs, A-C-E-S. It's the Adverse Childhood Experiences scale. I want you to just take it. It's online. It's 10 questions. And if you score over a four, which you have, you're more likely to get cancer, strokes, heart attacks, all, your body is at war.

Yes. Right? Yeah. Yep. And the goal of healing from big T trauma is this. Trauma simply means your body is responding in the present to things that happened in the past as though it's happening again right now. Yeah. And if you were sexually abused as a child, as you have daughters that get within shouting distance of that age,

your body remembers that story. Yes. And it starts sounding every alarm because it's danger, danger, danger. Yep. And it's not a matter of you don't trust them. It's that your body doesn't trust the world. And more importantly, your body doesn't trust relationships. And that's a weird thing is you gotta have relationships

or we die, literally. Exactly, yeah. I finally was able to make one awesome friend. I worked with her and we got one person in our life that we can trust. Awesome, Awesome. So the goal is, is to work through the big T trauma so that you can think about what happened. You can remember those conversations, A, on your own terms and B, your body doesn't take off on you because it knows it's safe now. That's the goal, right?

Can't undo that stuff. We got to own it. It happened. And then the question is, now what, right? Yes. First, the first thing, the first order of business is cutting ties with the people who abuse you. Yes. And your language, in this case, matters.

How did your mom, how was she killed? An ex-boyfriend shot her at a gas station. Okay. So killed is, the word is your mom passed away. She died. But the way you told that to me could have been a car wreck, could have been a medical issue. Your mom was murdered. Yes.

And you have to own that language. You were not messed with as a kid. You were sexually abused. Yeah. And when you come up with, and I do it, we all do it. When we use language to take the sting off of what happened to us in our present, in our past, and sometimes people say like,

well, my husband just was, he cheated on you, right? You gotta say it out loud. Your body feels the weight of it, but your mind has new words. And you know what happens when you lay old, new flooring over old flooring and there's water, their mold grows underneath. It just rots out everything. Yeah. And so we got to use the words of what actually happened. And then we have to respond to that stuff. Okay. Yeah. Your parents were abusive. They were

alcoholic. They were absent. Trauma can also be, so you told me some big T traumas. You probably know this. Big T trauma can also be what didn't happen. Yeah. Moms and dads are supposed to be present with their kids and let them know that they're safe and that they are loved. And children of alcoholics don't get that. Correct. Yeah. So the goal here is to experience those, to think about those things in your body and take off on you. You're able to just be present with your husband, with your daughters.

Sounds like your husband still wants to stay connected to them. Yeah. Okay. He, well, he wants, he wants to separate us from it, but he thinks that he can be this big wall that separates. But I don't want him to be the wall because it's just like letting the stupid bear in the living room maul my husband so that he doesn't get to us. I think there needs to be a separation from all of it. Absolutely, yes.

So your husband is trying to be a good kid. And as somebody who grew up like he did, he was probably responsible for the emotional and psychological and relational well-being of the adults in his life. Well, can I tell you what happened this weekend? Absolutely, yeah. We told them in a letter that we were not talking to his mother, period.

And we were having no contact with her. And we were just completely and totally done with her. And we needed to go seek counsel on how to handle his dad because that's where we weren't agreeing on how to handle it. I just wanted to cut him off just like his mom. And he doesn't see it that way yet because he was closer to his dad in his eyes than anyone else. Well, anyway, his dad called him the other day

or messaged him and said that he wanted to meet with him man-to-man like degrading my husband. Are we going to fight? Well, I don't know. That's what it sounded like to me, but anyway, he met with him at a park and he brought his favorite freaking cookies that his mom

gave him as like, I guess, a peace offering or whatever, and tried to talk things, or he wanted to talk things out, but my husband wasn't giving him any information or anything, just that we weren't going to be talking to moms, pretty much. And his dad told him, he asked him, you know, if the stuff that your mom did bothered you, why didn't you say anything about it? And it made me sick. And I couldn't believe he said that to him. Don't, that crap.

Because now, oh, it's your husband's fault now? Yeah, exactly. Stupid. You know whose fault it is? I don't want to get on that road. Here's the deal. Dad knew that crap was going on. Yes.

Absolutely. And it's not just the dad. The grandma has, she called the hospital when I was giving birth to my third daughter in September. She showed up to our house the week after I had my baby. Not invited, unannounced. My oldest daughter was crying because she couldn't understand why she couldn't go to grandma. And I had to explain to her, honey, we're not talking to grandma right now. I don't know how to explain this to you right now, but when I know, I will tell you one day, just not right now.

And then my husband got her to leave, and then she told him that she was going to call his dad and then showed up the next day uninvited. Luckily, this time I saw them, so I was able to get the kids in the back room so that my husband could go handle them outside. But they showed up with his mom, his dad, and his grandma. They all came back. And I just want to call the cops and just have them deal with them.

Absolutely. This is manipulative, narcissistic nonsense. Exactly. And his grandma showed up at his place of work last night. And yeah. So grandma needs to be notified that there's going to be a restraining order against her if she shows up again. Okay. Should we even have a talk with her?

Because I don't think we should at this point. At some point, surely your husband has said you're not welcome here. I'd like you to go. Well, he did whenever she showed up at our house, but now we agreed that we would have a conversation with her, but I don't even think there needs to be a conversation anymore. I would not have one in person. I would make a phone call. I would. Okay. And I would say, you are not welcome in my house. You are no longer a part of our life. I would recommend, and Ray, and I know this is

hard. I'd recommend y'all think about what the next 18 months, 12 months, 24 months looks like for y'all to move and go somewhere. These roads haunt you. Yes. I've been wanting to move so bad. It's time. It's time. And here's the thing. It's time for you to sit down and tell your husband what's actually happening. And here's what I, you can tell me I'm wrong, but children who grew up in systems of abuse, which is how you grew up, and your husband did too, they get really good at two things. Making sure everybody around them is okay.

And keeping secrets. And y'all have an ecosystem in your home where both of you are trying to make sure the other one's okay. You're trying to keep up a fantasy where these kids that you have, these beautiful daughters that you have, are still going to have grandparents. And y'all keep secrets from each other. Well, not really. We tell each other everything, even when it hurts. Does he know that you're about done? Because you are.

Absolutely. Okay. He gets it. Yes. Yes. All right, so here's the— He supported me calling today. I think he just needs to hear it from somebody else

Good He's about to lose you Yeah I'm getting pretty resentful Yes there you go And he may not lose you in spirit I mean in body but he's going to lose you in spirit Yeah

And then you know what happens This whole cycle starts over again because the only way to get over the gap of being married to someone who you love but you chose abusers over them the only way to get through that

is disconnecting whether it's alcohol or whether it's working too much or whether it's somebody here it goes again. And your daughters grow up in a house with two people who are absent and they're there in body, but they're not there in spirit. And the whole thing happens again. Yep.

Right? You and your husband are doing brave things. Like Terry Real says, you're staring down this forest fire and saying the generational trauma stops with us. But what I'm telling you is you got to go all the way. You can't stare this forest fire down and one of you has got a hose and the other person is just being like, hey, don't spray so hard. Don't spray that water too fast. Then you're going to both – everybody's going to burn. How, like, I just made a friend

and I'm afraid I'll lose her if I move. Listen, right now, you're, let's worry about things in order, okay? Okay.

Let's worry about things in order. You might have a different relationship. You might have to go make new friends. Here's what you've proven to yourself, that you're worth being loved and you're worth hanging out with. Yeah.

And you're worth having joy. And there are good people, a whole, whole bunch of them that are trustworthy that you can tell crazy things to and then will laugh and say, hey, I'll buy beers. You found that person. It exists.

Yeah. And so I want you to know that there's a bunch of hers out there. Now, I'm not telling you you got to break up with your friend and all that kind of stuff. What I'm telling you is, first, you got to get safe

and you're not safe. Yes. First, second, you got to get on the same page with your husband. You all got to get on the same page with a game plan. And at some point,

it comes to you saying We are moving You can be a part of this conversation But I can't be around this evil anymore Okay The fantasy that you're going to hold this family together That grandparents are going to come around It's over

Right And you've If you've ever listened We've done over 200 something shows of this show I've never I think I've watched all of them You're the only one I've never told somebody

To get their phone out And disconnect from their parents forever And I'm telling you that Right Because they've got their foot on your head And you're underwater And you can't breathe. And it's time.

It's time. Okay. Let that go. Yeah, that feels really good to hear. You and your husband, I want you to go meet with somebody together if you can. Okay. If you can't afford it, sell something. I'd rather you sit on folding lawn chairs in your living room than have a couch, but

make sure that you and your husband have gotten six sessions of trauma counseling together because y'all got a lot of healing and you don't want to pass this on. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Here's what, I don't know if y'all have done this. Maybe you have, maybe you haven't. I want you guys

You've heard me say this a thousand times And you're getting it too Have y'all ever gone to somewhere And just said what could it be like Usually People in your position You're always putting out the next fire The next fire

You never get to sit down and dream What would it look like if there was just no fires? Well, actually we, we started this whole healing process like five years ago when we started like watching the Dave Ramsey stuff and we just got out of debt and took off our house at the beginning of this year. Wow.

Congrats. Thank you. I appreciate that. Everybody. That's when we started noticing the, or I guess figuring out that our family were not going to be able to be a part of their lives. Yes. Once they saw that we were doing better. Dude, it brings the leeches out.

Yes, yes. Yes, it does. The vampires come out. So you may have to sell that paid for house and go pay for another house with cash in another city. Yeah, yeah. I know it's hard. I know it's hard, but you live around vampires and at some point they're going to, one of them is going to get their teeth in your kids. Exactly. Yeah. That's the scary part. Or one of their kids, cousins, sisters, roommates, brothers going to be, it's just going to go on and on and on. Let's do this in order though. Moving is not a conversation for today.

Conversation for today is we start by getting evil out of my house. I will not allow people to abuse me or my family or manipulate us anymore. Start to the phone call to all the parents, to grandma. This is the last phone call. We are disconnecting from you. If you come to our house unannounced, we will call the police. If you show up to my kid's school, we will call the police. We are done. And that will be hard.

And you'll have to grieve that with your husband. That'll be hard. And then you begin making plans for what is next. But you're worth a life where you're not abused anymore. You're worth a life where your daughters are safe. You're worth a life of laughter

and joy and really hard work in the gym, at your career, at whatever your hobbies are. You're with more, and I'm sorry that these are the cards you were dealt, Ray. You've played them incredibly. You have played them incredibly.

And now it's time to get up from that table and go to another table. You've got to grow on that table. You're an absolute brave rock star. Keep us in the loop over the next few months and we'll walk alongside you. It's grateful. I'm grateful to have gotten to talk to you today. You're a brave, brave soul. We'll be right back on the Dr. John Delaney Show. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving and life change and job change,

and you've got a tornado of anxiety fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make. This is not a good idea. So if you're a new homebuyer right now, my advice to you is to focus on what you can control, like the people you choose to help you in the home buying process. You need folks like my friends at Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is a Ramsey trusted provider that's been helping people with their home mortgages for decades. And their home buyer edge program will help you skip a bunch of the stress. Here's how it works. Apply to become a Churchill certified home buyer and cap your interest rate for 90 days.

Then you'll get a $5,000 seller guarantee to help your offer stand out. So go ahead, take a deep breath because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillmortgage.com slash D'Loni and get the home buyer edge today. All right, we're back. Let's go to my hometown, H-Town and talk to Fred. What's up, Fred? How we doing? Hey, doing good. Thanks for talking to me. It's real exciting. You got it, brother. It's

exciting for me too. What's up? Well, I'll try to be coherent here. You're on the wrong show if you want to be coherent. I know, right? Yeah, wrong show. Anyway, my relationship with my spouse has kind of devolved into basically what I feel is abuse, emotional and mental abuse. And I started reacting by lashing out physically and not at her, but, you know, at our house and I'll punch holes and things and throw objects. And why do you do that? It seems like a strange choice. Why do you choose? Right. I don't know. It's a, I guess it's a, it's a poor way of, of,

I feel like if I don't hit something else, I'm going to hit someone, I guess. And that's a false choice. I suppose so. Yeah, it is absolutely false from this point. Who taught you that? Did your old man do that? Did your mom do that? Who taught you that?

No, my, my dad was the calmest person on the planet. My mom was very, very, you know, she was physically and verbally abusive, but she never, she never punched holes in anything. But, um, so here's the deal. I don't know. Never again. Got it. Yes. Uh-huh. Say it. Never again. Will I lash out physically at anyone or anything? Done. We're good. Yeah. I hope so. Every time you're about to hit a wall, here's what I want you to think. Hey, mom, I got your anger and your rage, and I am going to show you how tough I am, even though it's going to cost me my marriage.

I want you just to think that before you hit something. Okay. Okay? Yeah. Cool. All right, so that's not even why you called but or

here's a simpler way right before you hit something ask yourself why am I choosing to hit this because if you can choose to hit it then you can choose not to yeah that's absolutely right right

like why am I choosing I do that all the time dude like why am I choosing to tail this guy who just cut me off what a dumb why am I choosing to eat this I know it's not going to make me feel good like what am I choosing? I do that all the time, dude. Like, why am I choosing to tail this guy who just cut me off? What a dumb thing. Why am I choosing to eat this? I know it's not going to make me feel good. Like, what am I doing?

You know what I mean? So I'm there with you. But when I start, when I take ownership of what's happening and I use ownership language in my relationships, things change. My behaviors change. All right. So your marriage is devolving. You've got an emotionally abusive wife. You're choosing to act like a five-year-old, and then what?

Well, I guess I feel like we're both kind of at that point where it feels like the marriage and the family is slipping out of our hands. Are you done? No, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, a two-year-old and a nine-month-old. And then she's got a stepson, or I've got a stepson that's from her previous marriage who is six. They're awesome. Hey. We'll get to why you called eventually. I don't even know why you called yet.

I keep interrupting you. That stuff I said earlier about not ever hitting anything ever again? Mm-hmm. You got little kids in the house, brother. No, I know. Never again. Got it? Oh, absolutely.

Do not pass this on to them. Don't teach them that this is the way grownups handle their frustration. They deserve better than that. Fair? Yeah, absolutely. Cool. And I better than that. Fair. Yeah, absolutely. Cool. And I would tell the same thing to your wife.

Don't emotionally abuse her husband. Don't yell and scream and say mean things to people ever. You're not worth that. She's worth more than that. But also don't demonstrate to kids. This is what adult relationships look like. Cause then they take that crap to school with them. And then so goes our country, right?

Okay, so why did you call, man? I keep interrupting you. Well, honestly, I don't know if I know why. I'm so lost. I don't know what to do. Does your wife want a divorce? No, I don't think so. She brings up, well, let's just divorce then all the time.

You know, when there's a fight. Well, it sounds like she might want to get divorced. Well, she says a lot of stuff. And I don't know. I mean, I could. So is she a liar? Is she not trustworthy? Well, I mean.

Sounds like she's being really clear with you. Let's just get a divorce then. Maybe a hint that she wants to get a divorce. Is it that you don't want to see that come to fruition? Oh, man, I definitely don't. And maybe that's maybe I just have blinders on. I just I feel like in my heart she doesn't because once we once we finally screw our heads on tight and actually talk to each other like adults, we're able to say, wow, I was so stupid and I'm so sorry. And let's not do this again.

But then it happens again. And I don't know how to break out of this cycle. And I certainly hope she doesn't want a divorce. Maybe she does. But I definitely don't want to lose her. I don't want to lose that time with my kids. It's so precious to me. Here's what I,

there's very real moments involving yelling, involving emotional abuse, involving physical abuse. When I would recommend a 30-day separation, everybody's got to, someone's got to go, get an apartment, get a hotel, and we got to let everything calm down. Because the volatility in your marriage, the volatility with your kids,

it creates a cyclone that is almost impossible to get out of until there's some sort of physical break. Yeah. And I don't want, I'm not telling you to get divorced. I'm saying somebody's got to step out and say, I'm going to let this thing breathe for a second. Because this dynamic, this dance has to stop. Right. Okay.

Somebody's got to turn the lights on and say, what are we doing? And you can't keep dancing like this and then apologizing and then dancing again because the apologies don't mean anything anymore. Yeah. And you've got an abusive household and you've got three kids in it. Not going to do that. Have you all gone to see a marriage counselor? Yeah, we've,

we're actually seeing one right now and she is absolutely amazing. Um, we're actually, we're seeing her tomorrow. I was like, you know, maybe, maybe it's the type of thing where things get,

we get worse before they get better. I don't know, but it's just, uh, you know, um, so what is she recommending? Well, she's not really recommending anything.

We've been like to three sessions or something. She's just recommending we identify what is the core emotion, I guess. It's EFT. I don't know if you're familiar. Yes, I am. So back up all of that. Before you start digging into core emotions and past, but say, I will never talk to you that way ever again. I will never punch a hole through a wall ever again. You have to stop abusive behaviors before you start getting into core issues and feelings and all that crap. Yeah, okay. You have to stop the abuse.

Right. Because here's why. You can't get into core issues if you haven't dealt with the abusive behavior because the core issue is what sets off the abusive behavior. So reverse engineer it. Yeah. Stop setting fires and then figure out why do I always want to set fires?

And so the whole thing starts with a contract. And I've got several colleagues across the country that do this all the time, relational contracts. I agree to never cuss at you again, to raise my voice at you again. And if I feel like it's about to happen, instead of choosing to raise my voice at you again, and if I feel like it's about to happen, instead of choosing to raise my voice at you, I will choose to go for a walk, and you will let me go. And then when I come back, I will choose to engage in a

conversation with you. And the choice language is important, because we feel like, oh, I just couldn't help it. Bull crap. We can. We can. And if we can't help it in the moment, we can help it five minutes before. And if we can't help it five minutes before, we can help it ten minutes before, an hour before, two hours before. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. It's like people who drink coffee at 8 p.m. at dinner, and then they have to take some kind of crazy medicine to go to sleep at night. Right. The inability to sleep started with choices made a long time ago. So you have a contract that y'all signed that say, I will not hit another thing. Because right now your wife doesn't feel safe, and you don't feel safe,

right? Right. Oh, yeah. And we've said as much to each other. There's a lot of, I don't feel safe, and yeah, we're struggling so much to get to that safe point. We've had points where we still felt safe. I just don't know how to get back there. Here's how. You say, what does safe look like? Safe is you don't yell at me.

Because when you yell at me, it reminds me of my mom. My five-year-old little boy comes out to protect me. And then I act like a five-year-old by throwing things and hitting things and saying things that I wish I hadn't said. And she says, whenever you don't do whatever or you're not whatever, I lash out because I learned that. I saw that behavior modeled through some system I was a part of. And I turn into a seven-year-old and act like a seven-year-old doing a temper tantrum. I won't do that anymore. And when I feel it coming coming I will call it out it's going to sound so cheesy bro

you got to practice you got to practice have you ever been like whenever I was doing MMA we do kickboxing, sparring there's always one idiot when everybody's sparring everybody's going 70% there's always one idiot when everybody's sparring. Everybody's going 70%.

There's always one idiot going 110. And it always causes problems and it turns into a whole thing. There's always one moron in the gym doing that. And we have to say we are going to practice. I'm not going to go 110 when I feel myself leaning into these things that we're going to agree what safety is in our house. We're going to agree what safety looks like and then we're going to practice it.

And then when everybody feels safe, then you can do sophisticated things like dealing with core issues and dealing with feelings and dealing with past trauma. Then you can own your story. But until you are safe, then you can't own nothing

because your body's just trying to survive. Is that right? Oh, yeah, man. Yeah. That is resonating with me big time. So here's the, here's your steps. Okay. I want you to take your wife out and say, we're going to have a good conversation together.

No fights, no nothing. Like, let's have a good conversation together. No fights, no nothing. Like, let's have a good talk. And then I want you to take a piece of paper or a fancy notebook, whatever you want, and say, I want us to talk about what does it feel like to be safe? What does safe look like for us? Paint a picture of it, man.

Crystal clear. Safe doesn't look, and it's not going to be like, when you do this, I don't feel safe. Nope. That's how it goes, right? No, no, no. What a safe looks like you and me sitting on the couch just watching TV. Safe looks

like you and me going to the gym together. Safe looks like you and me going out to dinner and we got babysitter for the three kids. And then let's make that happen. Well, then how do we feel good sitting on the couch together? Well, the house is picked up and you always drop your crap everywhere or that you help with, you help with bed, bedtime with the kids. And then I can relax. That's how you reverse engineer these things. You start with a picture and then you work

backwards. Okay. All right. And then I want you to take this agreement to your counselor and say, hey, we did some work on our own and we agreed. We're going to stop these behaviors that make the other person feel unsafe. We're going to practice them. And then the counselor is going to be like,

oh my gosh, I'm a great counselor. And you can be like, nope, I called some idiot on the radio for free. Thanks. And then y'all can do the hard trauma work. And I'm not dismissing feeling work. It's important. I'm not dismissing core issue work.

That stuff's all good. But you can't address those things in the middle of a fire. Yeah. It's like trying to decide like why it's so hot and you're standing in the middle of an inferno. Get out of the fire first, and then we can have the cool philosophical physics discussions or whatever, you know? Okay.

Hey, can I tell you something, brother? Yeah. You're worth not being angry all the time. Life is super cool when you're not angry all the time. It's just peaceful, man. You just laugh. Or when you're sad, you just get to be sad But you don't be sad and get raged

And kids You got what 6, a 4, a 2 year old? Yeah Or sorry 6, a 2 and a That's right So I don't know how to say this in a nice way But the season you're in right now

Sucks It's hard That's right. So I don't know how to say this in a nice way, but the season you're in right now sucks. It's hard. Yeah. It's super fun, man. I love hugging babies. And I got a five-year-old. I love it, love it, love it. And there's a lot of diapers and a lot of crying and a lot of can I have a snack, can I have a snack

and not very much sex and connection and intimacy. A lot of exhaustion. Am I ringing a bell? Oh my gosh, yeah. So you're also in the middle of winter and you found yourself out in the front yard with no jacket. It's just cold. It sucks right now. Spring's coming.

Go get a jacket on man Go be safe in this season Okay Okay Can you do that Yeah I think so No Can you do that

I absolutely can Yes you can you can do whatever you want to You're from Houston, man. Callie, you can bang on trash cans for all I care. That was an Astros joke. Hope that was good. Dude, you can do whatever you want, man. You can.

You can. You can. You got to own your past. You've done this crap. And now you got to say, okay, now what? Now what's next? What's it going to look like? What's the future going to look like?

We get to decide. We're going to start with being safe. Then we're going to go from there. Same team? We're good? Yeah, 100%. Okay. So here's the thing.

I want you to holler at me after you take your wife out. And I want you to go to a nice place. Go to somewhere nice. Take your wife out somewhere nice. Have this safety conversation. And if it gets hot, if she starts it,

say, no, no, no. No fights. No fights. And if it gets hot, if she starts it, say, no, no, no, no fights, no fights. And if she wants to fight, say, okay, cool. We're going to do this another time. Let's just enjoy our dinner. And we talk about what's a picture of safety look like and let's reverse engineer it. And if she points out things about you

that you're falling short, just take it. Own it. Don't fight it. Own it. And then bring that stuff to your counselor. Keep working. Own it. Don't fight it. Own it. And then bring that stuff to your counselor. Keep working. Keep working. You're on the right path. Keep working. And don't forget you're in a crappy season. It's a lot of little kids, man. It does get better. Be brave, my brother. We'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

All right, October is the season for wearing costumes and masks. And if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going as Brad Pitt in Fight Club era because, I mean, we pretty much have the same upper body, but whatever. All right, look, it's costume season.

And let's be honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind costumes and masks more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social setting. We do this around our families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life

and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can learn to be honest with yourself, and you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic, direct life.

Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, and you can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey, and you get matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp.

Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. All right, let's take one more. Let's go out to California and talk to Steven in Orange, California. What's up, brother Steven? How we doing? Hey, good morning, Dr. Arndt. Doing good. How are you? Outstanding, my man. What's up? Cool. So I had a question about someone on my team. I run a small marketing company, and we have a really supportive culture. Cool.

Amazing, super young guys. And I have one team member who's starting some new medication for her increasingly manic and depressive episodes. So I'm curious, how do I as a leader and we as a team be there for her while still providing accountability for her, for her performance? So that way she can grow into a respected leader as opposed to just a special case. Yeah, dude, man, what a stuff. Jeez. Every time I think the world's going sideways, I talk to somebody like you who totally restores my faith In humanity

People who want to do right and love right And honor right and make a living And make good money Good for you man Like for real What a stud So you say you've got a supportive culture What does that mean?

So you know I got this group of kids And I don't mean that to be derogatory Like I'm 27 and almost 28. So obviously I'm not super old, but like all of my guys are barely out of high school, college all hang out together. They all check in and on each other. We, we primarily focus on, on, uh, face-to-face sales. So if somebody had a rough day, didn't close, someone will get like seven text messages. Hey, how was your day? What happened? Um, we all know about each other's family. We all know, like we spend Christmas parties together, like, like close. Um, so as of right now, it's not super public information,

um, of what she's going through, but it will come out and it's noticeable behavior wise. They will want to be there for her. Gotcha. So here's a common thing that happens in situations like yours. Young guy, you're still a young guy, has a business, and I'm assuming it's working. Is that fair?

Yeah. Like you're doing good. You start hiring some employees, and dude, you love employees. They're coming to put food on your table. You're putting food on their table. You hire people, especially when the company's small, that are super cool. Like you like you like them they're kind of like you and y'all get along or you value diversity and you hire people that are way different than you but the fact that you hire people way different from you makes them kind of like you right it's just a cool gang and everything

is magic until somebody has to get fired and then it put it feels like it pokes a hole in the balloon. Because then it's like, I thought we were bros. And it's like, we are, but I'm the boss and I run a business and the business goes away if we don't make money. And to make money, we have to have a set of agreed upon values and operating rules and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Right. Have you had those? Have you ever had to fire anybody yet? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. No, I've been open for about three years now. Steve's like, oh, fire them all. It's awesome. Okay. So you've been there. Yeah. And we're real clear about standards and performance metrics and expectations.

Oh, fantastic. Okay. So here's the thing. Businesses have, over the last 15, 25 years, have gotten into, appropriately so, caring. And caring has really been lasered on, you know, healthcare in some places, spiritual care in some places,

and obviously, recently, it's been in mental health care because our country's falling apart. People are anxious and depressed and spinning out and OCD and ADHD and every other whatever, whatever diagnostic you can throw at people. And the best care you can give somebody in this situation is to point them to a professional resource and have strong behavior standard a strong performance standards for their job remember this phrase it's a context not an excuse okay here's what that here's what that means they have to get their job done the goal goalpost is where the goalpost is. That's how far that kick is going to be.

What support looks like is sometimes people can get things done in three days when they're on a manic episode that takes other people four weeks. That's the magic of somebody with bipolar. They really are that good when they're up. Oh, yeah. And they disappear for weeks at a time too. Or they show up in spirit, but it is not a pretty sight. You experience that?

Oh, yeah. And to her credit, like when she's up, she is the top performer in the office. Yeah, dude. Dude, I've got several friends with bipolar. They're the best. The best. Until they're not. Until, yeah, until they're several friends with bipolar. They're the best. The best. Until they're not. Until, yeah, until they're in a tough cycle.

And I love my friends. I want to honor my friends. I walk alongside them. I mean, I love them, love them, love them. If they were going to work for me, you still got to be at work. Or you still have to get your work done. Or you still have to get this stuff in on time. You cannot steal. So those standards have to hold. And what often happens is we want to have a whole bunch of conversations and you get into HIPAA stuff and you get into

ADA stuff. You get into discrimination because, well, hey, we're going to give her a little bit more time because of this. We're going to take away, we're going to loosen the standards here, but not over here. And you just create a mess for yourself. And so if you're in a business where if you can get your work done at home, great. Or if you want to come in, great. Or you got to put

one day of work in the office, great. Or it's a five-day, you got to be here every day. Whatever your environment or culture is, that adapts to the job, but it's about the job performance, not about, well, you know, she's got, right? Because this is bipolar. This one's tough.

This one's for real. This is legit and good. Then it goes to the next one. Then it goes to a little bit less one. And then it goes to, well, I've got ADHD, so I don't come in on Tuesdays. And then it goes to another one. And it goes to, well, I've got OCD, so I can't work on this type of computer. Then where does it go?

You hear what I'm saying? Ultimately, you're a good, good man. Like, I'm glad to know people like you are doing business. I think you love her by saying your'm glad to know people like you are doing business. I think you love her by saying your responsibility is to get the care you need. We will let you off for counseling. I'll help you pay for it. I don't know what your employee benefit structure is, but I'll help you pay for it. I will contribute money too.

I will help you with medication. I'm not going to be the guy who counsels you we're not going to do a bunch of seven hour conversations every two weeks about how things are going and I need you to step up we're not going to do that because for a person with bipolar that ends up becoming worse that becomes some form of torture in a way

does that freak you out? scare you? sounds like you don't like that no it's not that it freaks me out on that part i'm personally speaking i'm i'm actually pretty familiar with kind of these cycles now that works i'm thinking from the perspective of uh you know some of the other guys on the team that have never seen this before yeah where the station is to have those sevenhour regular conversations because it's an attempt to comfort as opposed to actually solving something. Yes, and bipolar is not something you solve. It's a healing process.

Yeah. And so the way I handle that across the board with my employees is to ask permission of this person. Are you okay with, what level are you okay with us sharing? Do you want us to share nothing? You know we've got a very tight-knit culture. Everybody talks. Everybody wants to love each other

and support each other. How comfortable are you with, how do you want this narrative to go? Make sure she understands she's in control of any story that goes out. That can't be yours. And most of the time, the best thing to say is not a lot. Like, I'm just struggling with some medical stuff.

And I'm working on it. And I'm a boss. You know, Stephen's being awesome. And he's hooking me up with counseling and taking care of us. And you can let your team know, hey, if you're struggling with medical stuff, family stuff, I'm not going to be able to solve that for you. That's what professionals are for. That's what doctors are for and therapists are for. But I want to work with you because I love you. And I know life happens not just in this office. Life happens all over the place. And I want you to feel supported. And if you need a

couple of days, come let me know. And if you need us to work an alternative schedule for you and that works in your business, let me know. But I'm going to keep things confidential and I'm also going to hold the standard. I'm going to hold you accountable. Right. And man, I think that's the level of care. And then when it gets into the nitty gritty and what happened and where were you and what about your brain chemistry and why are you taking that med? You should be taking this med. No way, Jose, dude, that is not anybody's responsibility except for a doctor right and employers get themselves

in a lot of trouble doing that and employees I mean some of them got to learn the hard way you know what I mean like hey those 14 hour conversations

you just show up to work tired like it's not a good idea what's a great idea is just loving her and go to dinner

then everybody go home but dude like I say I'll say it a third time. I'm glad to know you're out there in the world. Will she give you permission to tell the staff? Meaning like other people on the team? Yeah.

Well, she is kind of her leadership, so to speak. Because she's kind of third or fourth down for me, so to speak. And so kind of the whole chain already knows. So she approached kind of the necessary people. She already made contingency plans of like,

hey, if I'm having something happen, maybe I swap this day for this day. So to her credit, she's been really proactive. Awesome. Hey, that's a person you double, I mean, that's a person who's invested in her own healing. That's remarkable. That's awesome. Yeah.

That's really great. I was going to say, if she's open to telling people at that level, then one of the great things you can do is co-create an accountability plan with her. How can I best hold you accountable to these deadlines? And then she gets to speak it. Well, it really helps if I text you at eight o'clock and say, I can't make it tomorrow. I'm not playing. I'm not screwing around.

I can't make it tomorrow, but I will make, you know what I mean? I will make it up here and I will figure this out there. Then y'all co-create that. And then there's a plan you can hold her accountable to that she got to speak into. And now you're in magic,

your magic territory because there's, there's, there's, there's dual ownership. It's not just you taking ownership of her life, but she's got some stake in it too. And it sounds like she's the, she's that type of person.

The fair. That's awesome. Yeah. Brother, I'd co-create that together. I think that's fantastic. And then, and she may be the first person to say,

I like these seven hour meetings. I like the attention. I like the connection. They're not helpful. And then you can, as the boss, tell everybody, hey, we're not going to do that. We're not going to run around. Here's how to talk to somebody

who's having medical challenges. Let them bring it up. You don't dig it, right? So you can have some of these humanitarian socialized, socialization conversations with your staff. But man, if she's that open, which is just, she's a gift too. She's a rockstar also.

Then she can be a part of, here's what I need in this season. Here's what I definitely don't need in this season. That's great. Thank you so much for that call, brother Steven. It's awesome, man. Kelly. Man, Kelly, I Steven. It's awesome, man. Kelly. Man, Kelly, I wish you were a boss like that.

Just kidding. You're a boss like that. Is that fair? Do you care about us like that? I feel like you care about James. I care about you all very much. Huh? I care about you all.

You do. Do you care about Ben, though? Yeah, Kelly. Hey, back off. You're like the most caring person back here. You know who the most caring person is? James Childs. And he's not here today, obviously, so we can talk bad about him,

even though he's probably going to edit this and he'll hear it all. Oh, I edit this, so I'll keep it in. Oh, my gosh, yes. The fact that there's this, over the last year and a half, the narrative cast across the country that James is some sort of tyrant. He's like the sweetest, kindest guy in this building.

I know, and everybody thinks he's so quiet and he's so to himself, and he is one of the kindest people. It's awesome. It's just you. I'm just kidding. You're kind, too. You're kind and lovely, too. Who's not the kind person here? Listen, I...

Yeah, this is all a charade. I'm the mean... Ben, am I mean? I like my job, so I don't want to say... All right, let's go to the song of the day. It is from Chris Carraba, otherwise known as Dashboard Confessional. And you can say, oh, are you serious?

Yes, this is a great song. This was a great song. I remember getting all goosebumps and whatnot back in the earlys. Off the So Impossible EP, this is the acoustic version, the OG version. Song's called Hands Down, and it goes like this. Breathe in for luck.

Breathe in so deep. The air is blessed, you share with me. The night is wild, so calm and dull. These hearts, they race from self-control. Your legs are smooth as they graze mine. We're doing fine. We're doing nothing at all. Oh, man.

My hopes are so high your kiss might kill me. So won't you kill me? So I die happy. That's a good line, Chris. My heart is yours to fill or burst, to break or bury, or wear as jewelry, whichever you prefer. My gosh, that song is so good. Hands down, this is the best date I can ever remember.

What a great song. Hey, it's been fun. We'll see you soon on the Dr. John Deloney Show.