The Dr. John Delony Show - Our Open Marriage Experiment Did Not Go Well

Episode Date: May 9, 2022

This episode is a doozy. First, we talk with a wife hoping to rebuild her relationship after she and her husband tried an open marriage, a woman desperate to help her adult daughter who’s addicted to exercise, and a widow trying to blend families after losing two husbands. And if you like creepy, stick around for the end—Delony breaks down the children’s book that left its unique mark on us all, Love You Forever. Lyrics of the Day: "Ophelia" - The Lumineers Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. So I am calling to see how to reconnect with my husband after I broke up with my boyfriend. This will be good. Go ahead. Had marriage problems and we thought the way to fix it was to go to polyamory. Sweet. That obviously ended in a great big ball of burning fire. What up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

And I've been around the world and I, I, I, I can't find my baby. Hey, listen, we have some people in the lobby and she straight up rolled up here in a dog mom shirt, just saying, way to go. That was clutch. That was awesome. And you're wearing a fishing shirt, dude, and that's pretty cool, too. So we have one rational person at the couches.

Well done. That made me happy. Hey, I hope everybody had a good weekend. Hey, Kelly, everybody, we got back from the first, I know this is out of order here. So the show's coming out a month after these things are actually happening, but we got back from book tour, dude, and it was bananas.

And we went to Phoenix and then we'll be heading to Texas this week. But dude, in Phoenix, the number of people who came up and hung out with us and, man, listen to this show made me so this show. Made me so happy. It made me so happy. We often just hang out in here by ourselves and we just all go home. And the fact that y'all are listening to this is just fun.

Watching on the tubes is really cool. So thank you so much. We'll see you in Texas this week. But by the time this comes out, we'll already have been there and hopefully we all made it. We all lived to tell the story. Otherwise this would be a cool, like,

I don't know, backstage podcast. Is that how that works? All right, let's go to Ophelia in Asheville, North Carolina. What's up, Ophelia? Hi. How we doing? Oh, you know, hanging in there. Oh, you know.

Oh, man. So what's going on? So I am calling to see how to reconnect with my husband after I broke up with my boyfriend. This will be good. Go ahead. Fill me in. Yeah. So I don't know, blame COVID or deployment or that my ACE score of six. I don't know.

We had marriage problems and we thought the way to fix it was to go to polyamory and try to fill it in with other people who were more emotionally connected. And that obviously ended in a great big ball of burning fire. Yeah. So first tell me about how y'all came to that conclusion. Who came to who? So I came to him. I was presented with the offer from a mutual friend of ours and because I was talking to him about our problems and He was like, I'll sleep with you.

Basically, yeah, I'll sleep with you. I'll be your emotional connection. I, you know, that will be great for all of us. I'll take one for the team, Ophelia. Exactly. What a great guy. Fantastic. There's a lot of people in the world that would have just not done that.

But, man, wow. And so you sit down with your husband and you're like, so I've got an offer for you. How'd that go? At first he was like, I don't understand why. And then he was like, well, I can have have someone as well so we might as well just try it and then it was about six months of like lust puppy love happiness of yeah I can have attention when my husband's not giving me any and then it ended up being that the person treated me like terribly and then I broke it off and now we're trying to just kind of stand here in the ashes like well now what do we do did your husband date anybody yeah he did and how does that sit with you at the time i didn't

care i was just happy that we could all be doing this like amicable adults like quotation marks around that and then now i don't like it as much now that I'm realizing I still want to be with my husband and want to fix all the things that are broken in our relationship. So what is broken in your relationship? It's more of the lack of emotional connections. We got married at 18 and didn't know who we were or what was happening. And I had a bunch of childhood trauma that I've been in therapy now for two years, finally working through. And trauma that I've been in therapy now for two years finally working through. And now that I'm getting healthier, I want to actually

turn around and like fix the issues in my relationship rather than just being in survival mode. And how's your husband doing? Um, you know, he's just there. He's, he started therapy finally. He's more than just there Ophelia like how's he doing here's the thing he watched his wife come

and say listen you're not meeting this need for me I think I found like this really giving kind guy said he would be happy to step in and have none of the emotional support and all of the sexual intimacy support. Again, great guy, world-class.

And then he watched you go off and basically fall in love with somebody. Yeah. And he hung around at home. How's he doing now? He hasn't actually talked about it really. I mean, he said that he was okay with it when it was happening. And I was very honest about all of the feelings and emotions. And anytime he wanted details about like weekends we spent together, something I would tell him and he hasn't said anything. I can't honestly say I've asked though. Yeah. Yeah, I was giving my question, does he have permission to speak into that?

Or two, I'm just trying to roll through that in my mind and like sitting down with my wife and having that conversation. And I imagine everything would be so compressed. I think my body would take over at that point and just numb me out. You know what I mean? Like that'd be the only way to get through the day.

Um, so here's my belief is that, uh, Hmm. Give me, give me a, let me, before I give you my beliefs,

um, give me a, describe to me what you felt With this new person in month one Um Like I was happy That I was getting attention And that somebody was Underneath that

Like um I mean there was shame honestly underneath it Underneath that I'm not looking for negative things Okay Like what did you feel? I mean, I didn't eat for two weeks, if that's what you're asking.

No. No. The most common word that we hear in this world, when somebody cheats on somebody, when somebody even has, like, agreed non-monogamy for a season, the word most common heard is the word alive. I felt alive again.

And it feels so, it's just like cocaine, it's fireworks, it's cotton candy. It's the greatest feeling after feeling quote unquote not alive for so long. I don't think this had anything to do with this other guy at all. I think it had everything to do with you. And for some reason in the relationship you are currently in, your marriage, you've chosen death. And then for some reason you chose life with somebody who's abusive and took advantage of you. And, um, and I'm not saying all people take advantage of all people, but this guy clearly saw an opportunity and, um, he, am I right? He didn't treat you well, right?

Right. Yeah. I mean, at first it felt like it and then no. Yeah. So, um, but that even, even your willingness to take that sort of this, some of this is really great and some of this is terrible, but it all felt alive, right? And so my question to you is, why are you choosing to not be alive in your marriage? Because life's so short, man. We get one shot.

I think we just got complacent. We, I mean, we've known each other basically our entire lives and we stopped trying and I didn't think that we could go back to trying. So this other avenue looked really good. And so now you're back to wanting to try again. Tell me what you've tried. When's the last time you slept with somebody else? Over a year ago. Okay. So y'all called it off, right? You said, no, that was a terrible idea. Yeah, and then we tried to stay friends for a bit,

and that obviously didn't work either. So then it's been about four months, and all communication stopped. Okay. So now you and your husband, have y'all called this off? Yes. Okay. And so now you're staring at each other being like, so what now? Yes. What have you tried? Um, we went to a marriage retreat together

and didn't really get anything out of that. Um, we have a vacation planned to Iceland later, like in the fall time. Um, that's, yeah, that's pretty much it. So you just gave me two more firework shows. Uh-huh. And you need to hear me say that's not how desire is built. Okay.

Those are fun. I mean, don't get me wrong. Those are fun and a blast and it's cool to shake the snow globe up and it's cool to change environments. That's all great. This is a daily choice that I want to be alive. I want to be alive in my skin. This is a daily choice that me and this guy are

going to sit across the table and say, we got one shot at this. We did something stupid. It didn't help us at all. And now we're living in the ash of this. So what we're gonna have to do is we're gonna have to start this thing over, which is awesome. And we're living in the ash of this so what we're gonna have to do is we're gonna have to start this thing over which is awesome and we're gonna build something totally new and the cool thing about it is you get to build something totally new but you got to stop with the well because we just quit trying and we've known each other half our life all that crap none of it matters i could care less about any of it everything is about what are we going to do tomorrow and what are we going to do today? You know what I mean? Because you come bearing all these excuses. And honestly, I don't care about your ACEs score. I do because I love

you. And you know, I love talking about trauma and stuff. We could have that conversation. All these things you're working through, which is fantastic. At some point, you have to decide I'm worth living alive in my own skin, which means I'm worth living alive in my relationships, which means I'm worth when things are running a little bit low, that's okay because it's cold outside. And I'm going to have some communication and some practices with my husband that we know how to turn the heat back up when it's time. And until you can make, and that's hard. That's adult stuff. It's tough, man.

It's boring. It's day after day after day. And holy crap, it's worth it. It's worth every step of the way. If he'll play along, will he play? Yeah, he will. He's so into keeping the relationship going. Okay.

That was part of it too, is that he wanted to keep me happy. And so he agreed to it. So you're going to have to process that shame and say that out loud. Have you told him that? Cause here's the thing. Now you're going to start beating yourself up over it. Yeah.

Right. Yep. Completely. And he doesn't need yet another, you don't need this. You know what I mean? Yeah. So can you forgive you? Can you forgive y'all and put a period at the end of it and then go excavate this thing and build something new?

I'm going to have to. I can't build anything on shame. You're right you're right. But millions and millions and millions and millions of people do. Okay. I guess just what's the practical steps then? I don't know if I've ever been taught how to live in the everyday. Yeah.

So here's some practical stuff. The first thing is before you go on like another marriage retreat or something spectacular, here's the thing. Those things come with a lot of pressure. And if they're still smoldering ash, that pressure can, it can just lead to something combustible. Okay. And so when I'm going to enter into, like if my wife and I are going to go to a retreat of some sort, we've got a plan as to what we're going in to get out of this thing. If we're going on vacation, like we talk about in our house, do we need this just to be a reckless wheels off weekend together? Do we need just, do you need to sleep?

And I'm going to go for hikes or whatever. Like we are real intentional about what the plan is. Otherwise, we both go in with different plans. And then we both go in different plans. We have different fantasies about what's going to be on the back end of this thing. We're all going to be all love again. No, we're not. That guy just slept the whole weekend or we're going to have crazy sex all weekend. We're going to reconnect and find it. Not really. I just want to go to a movie. I'm tired. Right. And my knee hurts. Like whatever the thing is. And so you have to be super intentional way in advance. And so here's what it looks like. Number one, it looks like you being honest

with the shame and honest with the secrets. And either there's a couple of things you haven't told him yet, and I'm not talking about gory details about whatever weekend

getaway or whatever. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about this is a terrible idea and you knew it while you were in it and you need to say that out loud. Or you don't think it is a terrible idea and you knew it while you were in it and you need to say that out loud or it, what you don't think it was a terrible idea and you gave it a shot and then you realized halfway through it was a terrible, you just need to be honest.

Shame eats secrets for breakfast. So there's gotta be a season of honesty and you have to give him a safe space to be honest to. Okay. And he will probably say things that are hard to hear. Is that fair? Totally fair Okay Have you been totally honest with him 100%?

Yeah I have Okay Then this will be about creating a space for him to talk And then here's the goal What are your needs? So I'm going to ask you that What do you need? What makes you feel alive?

What made you feel alive? Feeling seen by the person, seeing that I was having a rough day without actually saying it, or that my family went off on one of their drunken tangents again, and I could actually express my emotion to the person and have them be supportive. Like, I need to feel seen and supported. Okay.

Here's what a great gift is, and this is not in any Hollywood movie, okay? Okay. You being really clear with him about what being seen looks like. Okay. Here's what a great gift is. And this is not in any Hollywood movie. Okay. Okay. You being really clear with him about what being seen looks like. Okay. And in the moment when you are not feeling seen, you say it. Not angry and not out of rage, but out of you're a teacher and it's a gift. This is a moment when I need you just to come hug me and say, I'm so sorry your day was hard.

And say nothing else. Okay? Okay. The same as you gave this other knucklehead that benefit of the doubt. Like, I like this in bed or I like that. You taught him those things. Teach your husband the important stuff. Okay?

Okay. Fair? Fair. And he gets to tell you what he needs And by the way, being seen is just one Because being seen is part one of I need you to see all of me And please still love me And for a kid with a six on the ACES score

A lot of people have had their way with you Both emotionally and otherwise And you have a Spinning Like a fusion center In your heart that tells you what you're worth. And it is 1% of what the truth is. Okay? Okay.

Am I right? Yes. Yeah, you are. Okay. So you're going to have to let him tell you what his needs are, and you can't fly off the handle. And you can't shut down, right? Run away. That's my, there we go. You go hide. There you go. You can't shut down. You got to

stay present with them and say, I need you to teach me. Will you walk alongside me in this? And then you're going to have to, in the same conversation, preferably over a meal. I like him over a meal. That's just me. Cause I like eating when I'm sad. And that's not a sad thing. I just eat my feelings. And so there we go. So you don't have to. You can do it on a hike or whatever. And then you have to say, in one year, I want this to feel and look like this.

In two years, in five years, I want this thing to look like this. This thing being our marriage. And if our marriage is not alive, it's just a reflection of what I'm putting into it and a reflection of what he's putting into it. Okay. Okay? So hear me say this.

I know of no quality data that suggests an open marriage solves anything. I haven't seen the data. It makes no sense. I've seen some crappy, crappy studies, and I know it's super cool to talk about with like, yeah, bro, we're adults. We can just be adults. That's just stupid. You know what I mean? I also told myself when I turned, like, was an adult that I could eat Taco Bell every day, and that was a terrible choice too. I'm an adult, bro. I can just do whatever I want. Not great. Right? And so, here's the deal.

You have to decide what we want this thing to look like and then you're going to reverse engineer it. You're going to be curious with each other and you're going to be patient. I do think if you're both invested in this thing, you can have an extraordinary marriage moving forward. I really believe that. Okay. But you have to decide

he's worth it and you have to decide that you are worth it. He can't materialize into your soulmate. He's going to become your soulmate after 25 years of grinding things out. And if y'all rebuild something beautiful and powerful and strong, man, then you look back and say, look what we did together. And he's going to be like, remember that time you, and you're going to be like, shut up, stop. What am I talking about? Right? Fair?

Yes. Yes, totally fair. Okay. Okay. All of this starts with you getting with your counselor that you're still seeing and say, I'm tired of carrying these bricks of shame around. We're going to start working on setting them down. Some of that will be about writing.

Some of that will be about, you know, they'll have a process with you with your therapist every therapist works with shame and if they don't, God help you, go get another therapist but this is going to be about building something together with him and hearing me say you are worth a marriage that is alive practice desire

it is a practice what do you need what are the ons and offs? So here's two things. I'm going to send you a copy of Own Your Past, Change Your Future, my new book. So stay on the line here. And I also want you to get a copy of Emily Nagoski's book, Come As You Are. It's a book about sex and intimacy for women, but it's incredible for, I've just found it a really invaluable resource. There's probably a lot of stuff in there that you don't need to hear, but there's some incredible sections on offs and ons and gas pedals and brakes and this idea about sexuality and intimacy and how to have conversations together inside of a marriage.

And there's gonna be stuff in there you don't like, move on past it. It's like all books are gonna be that way. You're gonna find stuff in my book that you don't like too. My book's gonna walk you through, okay,'t like, blow, like move on past it. It's like all books are gonna be that way. You're gonna find stuff in my book that you don't like too. My book's gonna walk you through, okay, you've got a mess, you gotta own it. And then now what are you gonna do moving forward? And it'll give you a blueprint for moving forward there.

And her book will give you some conversations to have with your husband and he needs to read it too, right? Thank you for being honest and set the bricks down, man. Let's excavate this whole thing and let's start anew and let's build something beautiful.

We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever.

Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, Seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks,

I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp.

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Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. Let's go to Anne in Grand Rapids. What's up, Anne? Hi, thank you for taking my call, Dr. John. Thank you for calling. What's happening? Well, I'm hoping you can help me.

I listened to your podcast probably from the inception and also bought the first book and gave it to my daughter. We're going to talk about today. Oh, you're awesome. Okay. So she has struggled in the past. She's 36. Now it's two beautiful girls and a great marriage and all of that. But she has struggled with eating disorder slash exercising disorder.

Now, once when she was 16 and high school cheerleader, all of that, and went to see a doctor, we got through it. The doctor always said her best quality was her worst quality being determined and all of that. Then fast forward the beginning of the marriage, they went through, she went through it again right before she got married and we thought it was nerves or whatever. But now it's taken, it's reared its ugly head again. And we know, I listen to you a lot. I move your body every day, exercise every day. And she did that, but to an extreme. So A, I don't know how to walk

beside her and support her. B, I don't even know what an addiction is. I don't understand it. And how, like, do I keep my walking? That's what I do for exercise, but never to an extreme because I can find anything to decide not to do it. How do I support her by going through this? I will say she's in counseling now who referred her to a psychiatrist to help with meds, which she made that appointment and went to that. She has to see her medical doctor actually on Wednesday. Good. So she is, she's doing what she needs to do, but I seem to always be saying the wrong thing. Like, did you exercise today?

Did you eat today? Did you, you know, that sort of thing so i need some help i love it can i say like i love your heart like thank you i'm glad they're yes that's awesome um yes let me circle back to that i want to make sure i don't forget that too um i'm writing myself a note here um all right so um i there's been some data out recently that during the pandemic, eating disorders, particularly in women, have skyrocketed off the chart. It's been wild. And there's multiple reasons why people think, and everyone's really just kind of throwing stuff at a wall. And I think it's probably a little bit of all of it, right? All this extra stress, control what you can control.

All the media messages about, you know, the people, especially in the pandemic, set off like, I'm learning seven languages and I'm going to learn to do this. And I'm going to re-roof my house. All this stuff that people said they were doing. And then most of us just sat at home eating Cheetos. And then we're like, I guess, you know what I mean? So there's all kinds of stuff. One quick question. How old are her daughters?

Four and seven. Okay. And she's very, doesn't want them to see this, very protective of this. And if I can interject, and I apologize. No, you're good. Someone said that about the pandemic. She and the had COVID. And when they backdated to when the psychiatrist had asked her how far back can she go to, she realized when she had COVID that it seemed like to trigger something in her brain.

Because even if we look at photos up until that point, she always worked out. But she just amped it up. And she is eating, but she isn't eating enough to burn the calories because she'll do a HIIT workout 80 minutes every morning, get her girls off to school, and then go on a four-mile walk. And I walk for exercise, just exercise. I forget the HIIT part. And, you know, so, I mean. I forget the head part. And, um, you know, so I, I mean, I'm,

that's, it's a whole thing. Well, and this is, this is hard, right? Cause our culture gives you a gold star for gym time. Yeah. And it's when you combine that with disordered eating or just an addiction of itself, I tend to see it as an extension of disordered eating. It's a way to, when I've hung out with folks who are working through this, spent time with young people who are working through eating disorders, there's almost a mania about every movement can burn a calorie here and a calorie there, right? It becomes this like a, well, I'll just stand up and I'll just walk. I'm going to walk around while we're talking, Or can we just go for a walk? It's just sitting in your office.

It's this constant, hey, I've got three minutes. I could probably burn another calorie here. And man, then you go to the gym all the time and she's got people in her life. I guarantee you that high five her for her discipline and her diligence and all that kind of stuff. Yep. And I get so mad at them.

I know, but listen, listen. They're just trying to love her and they don't know. Right? I know. And it's a mad at them. I know, but listen, listen. They're just trying to love her, and they don't know. Right? I know. And it's a darn fitness watch. But she finally gave that fitness watch up to her husband last week. Good. And I'll tell you this.

I gave mine up. I put mine away. Did you really? I did. I was waking up, and the second I opened my eyes, I was checking it. And there's some emerging data. These things are all new, that it can lead people to be obsessive. And most importantly, it disconnects you from how you feel. It should be a tool that teaches you, oh, this is what

it feels like when I haven't slept well. Or this is what I feel like when I had two glasses of wine and a burger last night and I woke up this morning feeling like I got hit by a dump truck. You're supposed to look at this watch and it'll tell you, right? Well, now the watches have become, we've become slaves to the watches, right?

And so good for her. Here's what she needs. And you and I could talk for a while. Here's what she really needs from you. She needs her mom. Okay.

Not a, she doesn't need a checklist. She doesn't need accountability. She's got a doctor, a psychiatrist, and a counselor. But she needs someone who will just love her. I can do that.

I know you can. Quick note, hurting yourself or putting yourself in a precarious position does not support her. So you, I would say you have to keep walking. You need that. Okay. Okay? Yeah, yeah. And people eating, people exercising,

she's not doing it because she's like, I don't know what I'm going to do today. Oh, there's somebody exercising. I think I'm going to go do that. That's not how that works, right? So you keep taking care of yourself in the way that you need to take care of yourself. What I think would be a wonderful gift for her is to sit down and say, okay, we're here again. And you've mentioned a

couple of times. So I hope, tell me if I'm putting words in your mouth, you've said things over the years that you regret, or you may have said the wrong thing here, or I wish I'd done it like this. Or when I think back to when she was 16, if I had just, right, you've had those thoughts, right? A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Have you ever taken her out and just told her that? Well, we go out. I try to, but I always say the wrong thing. So I guess, no, I didn't say that.

Like I'll say, oh, good, you're eating. Yeah, never, never say that. Yeah, I know. Never say that. Now, because it wasn't like it was before, but it's the exercise part. And then so I'll say, well, did you walk? Never. Yeah, I know. Never say that. Now, because it wasn't like it was before, but it's the exercise part. And then so I'll say, well, did you walk today? Did you? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I did make these mistakes. Yeah. Yeah. So here's what I'm saying. Here's what it would look like. It would look like you inviting her out for a meal, if that's not a triggering event for

her right now. No, no. She loves it. Or y'all just go get coffee with her. You come together and you tell her, honey, I've never really opened up with you and I'm going to today, okay? And if you said,

here's some things that I feel like I haven't done well. I ask you every time. I realize that every time we get together, it's like I'm creating a shame cycle because I'm picking you apart as though all you are is a series of behaviors that I'm sorry. What you need is your mom. And I'm going to love you and I'm going to care about you. And I'm not going to let you kill yourself in front of me. Right? But I love you. And you're getting the help that you need. And I need to

know, and this is where you're going to give her the greatest gift. Number one, you've given her vulnerability and said, I made some mistakes. Okay. And if you haven't done that in the past, man, no, I need to do that. That's a gift for your children. Okay. She'll, she'll say, the counselor says, you're setting me back by asking me these questions. And I'm thinking, I don't want you to, because I always remember you saying that the bells and the whistles and, you know, these things. And I listened to the bulimic one. It's nothing like that. This is, the exercise is out of control.

That's right. That's right. That's right. But here's the thing. By asking her if she walked is not going to keep her from walking. True. This is not. And so you've used the same tactics for 20 years, and I would suggest try something else.

Yeah. Because those tactics haven't worked. So we're going to start with vulnerability. Hey, I'm your mom, and I've never really told you. I wish I could do some stuff over. I screwed this up,, I'm your mom and I've never really told you. I wish I could do some stuff over. I screwed this up and I'm sorry. And you might have to feel that for the first time. Yeah. And if you do, let her see you feel it. Okay. Because right now you're an app to her. You're a robot who's going to ask her about charts and graphs every time y'all get together.

And she just wants her mom. She's got professionals to deal with the charts and graphs. That's true. And so she wants her mom. And it may be before you even have a conversation, say, you know what I've not done in a long, long time? I haven't just hugged you till your guts hurt. Can I hug you? And I want you to take your bare hand and put it on the back of her bare neck. And I want you to hug her for, count to 30. And when she starts to pull away, go, can I just keep doing this for a minute?

Okay? Yeah, I will, for sure. And if you don't say it regularly, I want you to tell her, I love you. Oh yeah, I do all the time. Okay, good. Okay, good. And I want you to give her permission

to teach you how you can best speak to her. Okay. And don't say things like, well, I guess I've just said the wrong things. Don't do that. Because that puts it on her. Own it.

I have said things every time you come, I'm always asking you about what's on the scale. If you were exercising, what are you doing? And I'm stopping that effective immediately. I'm done. What I want to be is your mom. And I need you to teach me what are some things I could say to you that would make you feel loved.

Okay. Yes. Invite her into that. And then hear me say this. There will come a moment when you gotta hold boundaries Okay? There's a moment when you're not just gonna sit there and let your daughter die Right, right Right?

And there's a moment that might come And I'm speaking into, only because I've lived this Not lived it, but I've seen it That you are part of an intervention team that takes her daughters away Because she's in the hospital or whatever Let's hope it doesn't get there, but that day may come. You've got to hold space for it. Right.

Let's cross that bridge when we get there. Okay? Okay. Because right now you project into the future, and you're trying to control things that you can't control, and it's best to open your hands and say, can I hug my baby girl? I will do that because you hit every nail on the head. I have said, oh, you know, I'm happy to take the girls, whatever you need,

you know what I mean? And whatever you need. And I'm looking so far because, you know, I don't want anything bad to happen, you know, and that's what I'm afraid of, you know, and she had opened up to my husband and I as well, that she was concerned about that. And we just said, we'll walk with you.

But I do, I have said exactly what you've said and I haven't done exactly what. Hey, we're all figuring this out. Hey, here's another thing. Feel free to tell her once a month, I'm going to call you and ask you how you're doing. Okay.

Tell her I'm going to call you on this particular day Because I love you How do you want me to have that call with you? Because I am gonna check on my daughter Okay And she might say I would prefer you not for a season And say cool I'll give it two months rest

And we'll revisit this Okay This isn't you just cashing out as mom This is you reframing mom As not being a 10 year old She She's not 10 anymore. This morning when my son was going to school, he's 12. I said, you brush your teeth, put on deodorant, combed your hair. Yes. Yes. You got the chickens. You fed the dog. Like I went through the whole thing. She's 36. She's 36. Right. Right. No, you're right. You're, you're a hundred percent right. I just

don't. And I don't understand how like exercise, something so good for you can become an addiction. She's a daughter to love. Right. Yes. Most of the time, almost all of the time. Well, I'll get in trouble for saying that. I don't care. I think addiction is some sort of derivative of a connection issue. Okay. It's a body trying to, um, wallpaper over the alarms ringing that say I'm out of, I'm out of sync with relationships in my life. Now eating disorders is its own special demon. It kills more people. It's a mess, right? So at the derivative, I'm addicted to exercise. I don't even, don't even know if I'd characterize it as, as, as that at this point, I think it's probably an offshoot of disordered eating, but now I'm playing psychiatric gymnastics and A, I'm not a psychiatrist

and B, it doesn't help a mom and a daughter, right? The important thing is put the addiction stuff in your back pocket. Just put it in your back pocket. You know what I mean?

Okay. And even say this, you want to be a gangster? Tell her, hey, I think I might go see a counselor and if you ever want to come with me or you want me to go

to yours with you, I'd be happy to do that. I've told her that. Great. I have told her that I will go any time with her. I just needed to handle myself with the things that you were saying that I was saying.

I love it. Did you exercise? Yeah, no more of that. And you tell her, you got pros for that. That's not even my job anymore. It's awesome. I would, if I were you, like I'm thinking of myself,

I'm sitting down to have a conversation with one of my kids. I would write this all out. I'd write it out because I'd get flustered. And then she would challenge me on one thing. And then I'd get all distracted. I would write this out and say, I'm going to read this to you. This is after the big hug moment. I'm going to read this to you.

And wait till we're all the way finished, please. And hear me say this, to have a mother who's still not giving up on her daughter is the greatest gift any kid could ask for. So on behalf of the 30 and 40 year olds out there listening to this, thank you for being a mom that won't let your daughter go. And most importantly, thank you for being a mom who says, okay, what I've been doing isn't working. I'm going to try something else. That's awesome. She's lucky to have you. We'll be right back. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving and life change and job change,

and you've got a tornado of anxiety fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make. This is not a good idea. So if you're a new homebuyer right now, my advice to you is to focus on what you can control, like the people you choose to help you in the homebuying process. You need folks like my friends at Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is a Ramsey trusted provider that's been helping people with their home mortgages for decades. And their Home Buyer Edge program

will help you skip a bunch of the stress. Here's how it works. Apply to become a Churchill certified home buyer and cap your interest rate for 90 days. Then you'll get a $5,000 seller guarantee to help your offer stand out. So go ahead, take a deep breath because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillemortgage.com slash Diloni and get the homebuyer edge today. All right, let's take Unamas. Let's go to Nova. We'll go to Supernova in Austin, Texas.

What's up, Nova? Hey, how's it going? Partying. What are you up to? Just working. It's a Monday. I know. I'm at work too. I'm not partying at all. I just lie to myself. It feels, it's raining outside. It's just one of those days. So we're having a party. So what's up, Nova? So I am in, I'm a bit of a unicorn, so I've been told. I'm in kind of a situation where I don't really know how to navigate the relationships going forward in my life. So I am 39. I have been married a few times. The first time I got married, it was know, not a good situation. And so that marriage was short-lived. I, you know, divorced at about, I think I was like 25 by the time I divorced, um, remarried and, and it was my happily ever after. Um, or so I thought, um, we were married about nine years and he passed away, um, drunk driving. Oh man. He was drunk driving or somebody hit him?

He was. Oh man. I'm so sorry. from my previous marriage. And so, you know, um, I was after I lost him, you know, single mom in it through grief. And, um, you know, that was a struggle, um, for a couple of years. And I, at about the one, one and a half year mark, I started feeling like my normal self again changed, but, you know, the new normal. And I opened myself back up to love and went out there and, you know, I felt good again. And so I started dating. We united with an old friend from high school. We hit it off.

Things were going great. We got married. And we were married a little over a year. And COVID happened. And he died from COVID. Shut the front door. Are you serious? Mm-hmm.

When? We're going on a year now. God almighty, I'm so sorry. Yeah. Just got sick and passed away. How long was it between when he got sick till when he passed away? Three weeks. God, wow.

Yeah. when he passed away? Three weeks. Oh, wow. We was, you know, 40, no pre-existing conditions, no nothing that was alarming. And he got COVID and we thought he was just sleeping it off, you know, like the first couple of days, he was just very tired. And on day three,

when I went in to check on him, I noticed his lips were turning blue. And I was like, oh my goodness, we're going to the hospital. And we live three miles from the hospital. So I rushed him there and within a day he was intubated. Never came home, huh? Yeah. So across these three marriages, do you have kids involved in this too? Right. So that's where it gets tricky. So, you know, he has two daughters.

I have my son. Okay. And his daughters came to live with us the January. So they've been with us a little over a year now, year and a half. Okay. How old are they? 20 and almost 16.

Okay. So one's still a minor, one's an adult. Right. Okay. And they came to live with you. How old's your son? He's 18. Okay.

And who's his dad? His dad is Jesse. He was my first husband. Okay. All right. Cool. Yeah. So he still gets visitation with his dad and, um, he's 18 now, so he's kind of free to the world now, right? Okay. So, all right. So now thank you for laying that. I'm, you've been through a lot and I'm so sorry. That is a of trauma Good grief Yeah, in a short amount of time Yes, yes, yes Okay, so a year's passed So are you back out? So I'm back out

You know, I'm doing well Considering everything The thing is It's, you know, kind of the way That I explain it to people Unfortunately, it's almost like muscle memory Like I that i explain it to people unfortunately it's it's almost like muscle memory like i've already i know how to walk the walk yeah and so i'm good i'm working full time i'm holding down the fort at home i still have my social life and you know, I'm good. You've grieved this?

I have. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I trust you. I'm not in mourning. Yep. I do still grieve sometimes.

Of course. Absolutely. But it's not that deep, deep. Yeah. That black hole. That's right. That's right. Okay. So you're back out there.

So I'm dating. What's his name? His name is David. Don't tell me his name. Okay, David. Okay, yeah, it's fine. He's great. He's very understanding of the situation.

He knows, you know. Yeah. He knows what he's getting into. Hey, listen, he has no idea what he's getting into. Not even close. But I like that he believes that he does. That's cool. Good for him.

Yeah. Yeah. The hard part for me is, you know, first and foremost, I'm thinking about the kids, you know. And they, we talk a lot. And, you know, I don't put them in situations where I feel like they're not ready. You know, we are all kind of walking through this and sometimes it feels like we're walking through mud, but we're, you know, we make it through and we're, we're doing okay. And they, you know, they've met him, they like him. We're all adjusting well. Okay. they've met him, they like him, we're all adjusting well. Where it gets tricky is

because they are my late husband's kids and they live with me, I'm getting custody. They, you know, still have a relationship with his family and they still want a relationship with his family. And I do too, to some extent, but things are a little bit different now. Right. And, you know, take for example, this past Easter, there was a big family Easter barbecue and they were like, oh, we're going right. Like the whole family, they want to go. And, you know, I feel like I want to be there. I want to be part of the family that they so desperately want because their family has slowly started, you know, with their dad passing and then grandpa passed, you know, a couple months later, like they want that family. But it is different.

So distill this down into a question for me. How do I blend my new relationship going forward because we're at the point where we don't we're at the point where we're blending lives. We're wanting to do things together as a family. Okay. So here's my, here's like, let me just I'll hop in. Here's my thoughts on it.

If you're adopting these two, if you are taking guardianship of them, especially the minor, you are taking guardianship, you are opting into their entire family, the same as you did when you married him. Okay. I think they're right. Especially when they're a minor, I think you go to the family events and if you're they need that level of security you've been through this

before they have not you're an adult and it's brutal and you know the black hole they are kids and that black hole will be in they will be in that black hole for years. And so having strings and connections to, let me say it this way.

You can't adopt these two kids and then just have them cut off their families and say, we're starting something new. That can't work. Oh, right. That can't work. Yeah, for sure. So I think it's right and fair

to let your new boyfriend who might become your fiance, who might become your new husband someday, say, this is part of what we do is we go visit. And I've got people in my life that are friends who married somebody whose spouse passed away and they go visit and it's kind of weird. And that's just part of what happens

when you sign up for a blended family. It's just different. It's a challenge. Every blended family situation is different. The cornerstone is, A, we got to take care of these kids first. They got to feel safe and connected both to their lineage and their legacy and to what we're doing that's new. That's number one. And number two is we're kind of all making this up as we go. So we have to over, over, over communicate. When your new boyfriend says, hey, I feel weird there,

he needs to have permission and space to say it and you don't fly off the handle at him. And when you say, I don't really feel like going, you get to be able to say that to him and him be able to say, yeah, but it's probably the right thing. And it's that weird balance of that 16-year-old and that, especially the 20-year-old,

but that 16-year-old doesn't get to hurt your feelings and at the same time, she's hurting so bad. God almighty, so bad, so bad, right? And so let's go see grandmother and granddad. Let's just make that a part of what we're going to do every year. Does that make sense? Yeah. I think the tendency to want to clear the deck

and move on from this hurt is going to be a really attractive pull to that for you. Is that fair? For me, not the kids. Like I never want them to, like, I'm completely great with them going to see their family. Like I don't want to pull them from that, but I do find myself, you know, kind of stepping back because they, his family knows I'm dating and I don't want anybody to feel disrespected. I don't want them to feel like, oh, I don't think, I don't think they will. And if they do call them, say, Hey, I'm dating somebody new and we're all coming. Would it be okay if I brought him? I think you, for the next four years, next two or three years, I think you, I think you go to these type of family events or whatever.

And at graduation, I think you invite her grandparents and her aunts and uncles and cousins and you have them over to your house, even if you're married by then. Right. Everybody, nobody is under the illusion that, you know what I mean? It's the secrets that are going to start to cause

fissures and cracks in the family. And so we're just not going to keep secrets. And if somebody says, hey, we really would prefer you not to bring your new boyfriend over to the house. It's just too soon for us. Say, great, cool. I'm just going to be respectful because this isn't about them. It's not about getting in a fight. Well, this is me.

No, it's about those kids. And then when they turn 18 and the other one's 22, now we're having a whole different conversation. You don't have to go to all those things anymore because they're adults and they can go to where they want to, right? I think it's not overthinking it and also not, I mean, you're doing a noble thing by taking these kids, a truly noble thing. But by doing that, you're entrenching yourself in this family for a season or really forever, but especially for a season. Right. Right. Right. Um, and I think that's good. And I think it's really hard. I think both of those can be the true at the same time.

Does that, does that make your heart hurt to think about that? It, it makes me nervous. Why? I, I just, um, I don't know, like death brings out the ugly in people. And I'm, I'm nervous that because I'm, I would be with somebody new, like if, you know if he came with us to the function, that they would be not receptive to that. And so what you're doing right now is you're projecting into the future something that hasn't happened yet. And you are choosing to be anxious and possibly make life-altering family decisions and choices over something that hasn't happened yet. And yet you don't really have a clear answer on it. And the only way you can get clear answers in this, there's two ways. One,

you can just show up and spring on them and see what happens, which is a terrible idea. Or you can call ahead. You can send an email out to the family. You can let everybody know, hey, I'm adopting these kids. I'm going to be all in on this family and I am dating again. And if I bring somebody, know that it's not disrespect. It's me wanting y'all to know what's going on in my life and me to know what's going on in y'all's life. If anyone has any concerns, please reach out and let me know. And what we're doing here is we're not trying to win. This is about hospitality. This is about kindness and it's about those kids. But I'm not going to give any real estate in my heart and mind for imagining things that might or might go sideways or someone might get mad. They may think I'm moving on too quick. That sounds like you

might be wondering if you're moving on too quick. Not them, but they might be. And they may say, he's not welcome here. You're not welcome here. Okay. They're hurting. And if it brings out the ugly in them, that's fine. I'm not going to let them bring out the ugly in me. I'm just not. I'm not going to give them that power over my life. I'm just not. And you've been through a lot. And so as you walk through this, Nova, give yourself some grace. Okay. Give yourself some grace. Be open with those kids. Be open with your new boyfriend. Make sure he's nice. Make sure he's nice. And, man, communicate, communicate, communicate. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here.

Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. We are back and it's story time here on the Dr. John Aloni Show.

I tried to say that in my least creepy voice. Did I get it? No? It's kind of creepy, yeah. It's good. It's good. All right, so today we're going to discuss a classic, and I know this is going to get me in trouble with the moms across the world. It's called Love You Forever by Robert Munch. Munch, is that how you say it? Munch, ka-ch.

Illustrated by Sheila McGraw. And normally you would think I love this book. It's got a child playing in the toilet. I think that's hilarious. But I'm going to read it. Here we go. Not all of it, mind you. It's 1,000 pages.

Oh, here's my pipe. I don't even know whose pipe this is is that yours sorry about that man i'm fairly certain i'm covid free all right a mother held her new baby and very slowly rocked him back and forth back and forth back and forth and while she held him, she sang, I'll love you forever. I'll like you for always. As long as I'm living, my baby you'll be. The baby grew, and he grew, and he grew, and he grew.

He grew. All right, we get it. He grew. Until he was two years old, and he ran all around the house. He pulled all the books off the shelves. He pulled all the food out of the refrigerator, and he took his mother's watch and flushed it down the house. He pulled all the books off the shelves. He pulled all the food out of the refrigerator and he took his mother's watch and flushed it down the toilet.

Sometimes his mother would say, this kid is driving me crazy. Well, that's rude. But at night when the two-year-old was quiet, she opened the door to his room, kind of creepily stalked, a little bit like a murderer, crawled across the floor, looked up over the side of his bed as if he was really asleep. And if he was really asleep, she picked him up and rocked him back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. While she rocked him, she's saying, I'll love you forever. I'll like you for always. As long as I'm living my baby, you'll be. And if you've ever read a book to a kid at night when you've got stuff to do you this is the part when you realize oh my gosh this is

gonna take like 30 minutes because this book goes on forever so i'm just gonna fast forward the kid uh is in middle school she's still picking him up hugging him back and forth back and forth back and forth um he's still trashing the place, only now he's got booze and microphones and pizza and kids. But back and forth, back and forth. She still crawls around on the floor, sneaking up on his bed. My mom never crawled. And then this is when the book, in my opinion, gets off the rails.

That teenager grew and he grew and he grew until he became a grown-up man. He left home and got a house across town. But sometimes on dark nights, the mother got into her car and she drove across town. Has anyone ever seen The Shining? And if all the lights out in the son's house, if all the lights in her son's house were out, she opened his bedroom window, crawled across the floor, and looked up over the side of his bed.

This is when you call 911, folks. If there's a woman crawling into your window, call 911. And if you think, I think that's my elderly mother especially call 9-1-1 for you because you're probably see oh god okay so then she crawls she gets a ladder on top of her car by the way so she's now breaking entering into her grown man son's house through the window and this cat's still sleeping in a single bed. That's a whole other conversation. Yeah, we need to... Okay, so...

If all the lights in her son's house were out, she opened his bedroom window, crawled across the floor, and looked up over the side of his bed. If that great big man was really asleep, which suggests that there was times that she crawled across the floor and he was awake and she was like,

sorry, son, see you later. And she just crawled back out the window. But alas, if he was truly asleep, maybe he'd had four or five Ambien, if that great big man was really asleep and she rocked him back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. And while she rocked, she sang,

I'll love you forever. Like a stalker or murderer perhaps i'll love you for always as long as i'm living my baby you'll be oh boy then he comes around and hugs his mom it's a beautiful ending so i think it's just important to call out the serial killer part in the middle of this beautiful story. She loved a little boy and then he hugged his mom. It's awesome. It's beautiful. When the son came home that night,

he stood for a long time at the top of the stairs. Oh, no. This is how generational trauma gets transmitted, kids. Now he picks up his daughter and starts the whole creepy thing over again. Oh, no. I'm gonna re-

I'm gonna reimagine the ending. Then he picked up his daughter out of her crib and looked at her and said, I love you, baby, and I always will. But I'm not just gonna sneak in and break into your house

and you're an adult woman and climb through your bedroom window and crawl across your floor and wait till you're passed out of sleep and then hug you a lot. It's not going to do that. I'm going to raise you to be able to verbalize your needs and to let you know that I love you at all times. That's I Love You Forever by Bob Munch. Way to go, Bob. Well, that's the end of that show as I slowly take off the sweater. And if you're listening to this podcast, yes, indeed, you should probably watch this on YouTube. And don't forget to give us five-star reviews anywhere you consume

this podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about the incredible groundbreaking work we're doing here on the Dr. John Deloney Show, the greatest mental health

podcast ever. Oh, as we wrap up today's show, a song by the Lumineers is called Ophelia. It's a little bit on the nose, but it goes like this. Oh, when I was younger,

I should have known better. I can't feel no remorse and you don't feel nothing back. Got a new girlfriend. He feels like he's on top and I don't feel no remorse and you can't see past my blinders. Ophelia, you've been on my mind, girl, since the flood. Ophelia, heaven help a fool who falls in love. Honey, I love you. And that's all she wrote.

Ophelia, that's all she wrote. We're staying off the rails. We'll see you soon. Coming up on the next episode. We're both struggling with a little bit of gender disappointment. We both were really hoping for a little girl. And while we are excited,

we are having another little boy. And there's going to be pee everywhere. There is. Everywhere. Fantastic. That's right. So we found out a few weeks ago that a extended relative has been sexually molestedesting our six-year-old daughter.

And then we involved the authorities at that point. There has been some negative feedback from other family members on that. Yeah, well, screw them. They don't get a vote.