The Dr. John Delony Show - Overcoming Past Trauma With Lewis Howes

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

On today’s show, we sit down with Lewis Howes, a world-record-holding athlete and host of The School of Greatness podcast, to talk about his impactful story and what he’s come to believe greatness is all about. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting ohndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. And so I went on a journey after many breakdowns in my life, and friendships, intimate relationship, business relationships, kind of all started breaking down around the same time about 10 years ago. And I realized, oh, I'm the jerk. That's the common denominator of all these things. Good morning, good evening, good night. I don't know what time it is that you're listening to this show,

but this is the Dr. John Deloney Show, and I'm John, and I'm glad that you're with us. I hope you're doing well, and I hope your family's well, and I hope, despite the chaos in the world, you're finding little pockets of peace. Today, we have a very special show. I'm super hyped for you to be a part of it. I was honored and blessed to have the great Lewis Howes, the host of one of the largest podcasts on planet Earth.

And he's got a new book out. And he came into the studios to hang out. And we talked for way too long. and we went all over the place. And most importantly, um, we get to talk about his new book, the greatness mindset, unlock was in the airport checking in on his flight. He was coming from Austin to Nashville. And he saw my book in Own Your Past, Change Your Future in the airport. He bought it with his own money. I would have given him as many as he wanted, but he bought it. And on the plane ride over, he read it. And you'll hear in the interview, he keeps directing the attention away from his book to mine. Not because my book is better. You can read his book and you will find out that is not the case, but that's the kind of

guy he is. He's discovered through on his show. He interviews high performers of all types. And when you talk to him, he's like, yeah, I was talking to Kobe Bryant once. And I was talking to such and such poet laureate once. And I was talking to the great Gabor Mate a couple of times. He has had the opportunity to sit kneecap to kneecap with some of the most brilliant minds in the world. What he's found that his superpower is, Lewis's superpower is, is shining the light on others, is letting others be seen. And that's just who he is. And so this was an important conversation because he, man, I told him off air, let's get weird.

And he goes, hold my beard, dude. If you want to get weird, I'll call. And we talk about everything, everything you can imagine. And here's what's really important. He discusses so much of it in this book. And in this, I just can't tell you, I can't recommend this book enough. Please go pick it up and check it out. He takes the wisdom that he has learned from some of the most important minds of our time and some of the most important minds of ancient history and some of the most

important thinkers about things that are going to happen in the future. And he puts it all right here and says, hey, here's some things you can be doing right now to live a better life and how to heal from the past. And we have a lot of overlap. If you're into this show, you're into Own Your Past, Change Your Future, this book is an incredible next step for you. So sit back and enjoy my conversation with the great and powerful Lewis Howes.

See you, man. Thanks for having me, brother. I appreciate you, dude. Congrats on everything. You're making a big difference in the world man I appreciate that you make a humongous difference

in the world I was just telling off air this is like a high school kid getting to play catch with Peyton Manning like the best interviewer on the planet

and I'm like an old academic nerd that's just like suddenly not in a I like the academic nerds not in the dark office anymore

they have the science the research the case studies that you can actually start applying. And the egos. Yeah, and the need to be right at all times. Always. It's my way. We'll defend it to the death. Tell me about the journey to get this book out, man.

Well, for me, it was more about a journey of discovering myself. And I just felt like I needed to get this out there because it's been 10 years I've been doing my show, School of Greatness. And it started with a need, a need of I've accomplished success in sports and in business, but I still don't feel happy and fulfilled and enough. So how do I figure out this enoughness thing, this worthiness thing, this deservingness thing of what I'm accomplishing and also how to navigate intimacy and relationships along the way and how to feel worthy of the worth. And so I went on a journey after many breakdowns in my life in friendships, intimate relationship, business relationships, kind of all started breaking down around the same time about 10 years ago. And I realized, oh,

I'm the jerk. That's the common denominator of all these things. How'd you get there? Man, I got in a fight in a basketball court. Okay. Like a little fist fight. And it was one of my lower moments where I remember after this fight thinking, the guy was fine, I was fine and everything,

but it was like a no stakes basketball game. Like, do you play basketball at all? Oh, yeah, yeah. Like pick a basketball. I'm incredible at this. I'm not that great. But like just pick a basketball with play basketball at all? Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, pick a basketball. I'm incredible at this. I'm not that great. But like, just, pick a basketball

with a bunch of friends. Just having fun, yeah. And, I would get so emotionally triggered when someone would do something that felt like, that was a little unfair. Little elbow,

little smash talk that was like, not clean. It was like, kind of a little below the belt. You're describing exactly how I play. There was like, there was like a button in my heart that would be like, bing, trigger. I want to defend and react

and guard myself against anyone trying to attack me in life. So I looked at the world as like, it's me and then everyone else is out there trying to get me. That was how I reacted in my environments. And after this fight, everything else was breaking down and that was kind of the final straw. It was like, okay, I actually physically got into a fight. Something is off with me. Like why? And I didn't need to defend myself. Right.

You know, I was just playing fun on the mean streets of Beverly Hills. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah, yeah. It's like playing a pickup basketball game in Franklin in Nashville, right? It's like there's nothing that could go wrong. So if I pull that thread all the way, where did that story begin that you defend yourself at all costs or this thing falls apart? Five years old.

One of my first memories, my third memory is being sexually abused by a man that I didn't know in the bathroom. Okay. And that was just the start, right? So that, my brother being in prison for four and a half years when in the bathroom. Okay. And that was just the start, right? So that, my brother being in prison for four and a half years when I was eight. Okay. And visiting the prison almost every weekend for four and a half years. And just the shame and insecurity and the pain that that caused the family and the uncertainty that that caused.

Parents really never learning how to model love with each other. They loved us kids, but didn't feel emotionally safe at home. And then just never feeling good enough in school, always in the bottom four of my class and the insecurity of being in the special needs classes and just struggling. So I used that anger that energy that wound energy and drove it towards athletics gotcha

found like I read in your book which is a fascinating book thanks you were similar to me this gangly kid in school which you wrote about I was like the tall

I was 6'4 when I was like 11 yeah right so but I was like 105 pounds I've been this big since 7th grade yeah you're just kind of like big ears

big teeth and you're just like this odd kid. Yeah. And- But if you're fit, but if you can play- Eventually, I could play. Eventually, I started- If you can play.

And so I started to get some validation there, and I was like, well, let me go all in on this thing, because I have no other skill, no other gifts, no other talents in school. Okay. But in sports, I'm like getting somewhere. And I drove it to say, I'm going to be the best athlete I can be, where I'm going to be undeniably needed on every sports team. Be a star in every sports team. And that energy drove me to be a great athlete, where I was all sport and two sports, all state. Then I was two sportsport all-American in college,

football toathlon. Then played arena football, professional football. Then played with Team USA handball with the Olympic team. Then transferred that into business after that was done. And just kept growing and growing and growing. But every milestone I accomplished,

I still didn't feel loved. So as you were saying that my time spent with people behind closed doors, you're a high achievers, you do yours, you're introduced in front of closed doors. Mine's been with stuff in ash, right? When you just said growing and growing, the words going through my head was running and running, right? Chasing and chasing. There you go.

Chasing greatness as opposed to letting greatness chase me. As opposed to letting it come to me, drawing it to me by being intentional and in alignment with harmony and peace. So I had never addressed the wounds until 10 years ago. And then it's been a 10-year journey of healing and unwinding. It's not a destination that is, oh, I'm healed now. It's an ongoing journey. But 10 years ago was the moment after this fistfight, I went home in the mirror and kind of washed the blood off my knuckles

and was like shaking, looking at myself in the mirror. And I just didn't recognize who I was. And I was like literally staring. One of these literal moments, I was like, who are you? Yeah, who is that dude? Who are you? Staring in the mirror at myself. And I just didn't recognize myself.

I realized there was so much anger inside of me, resentment, fear, insecurity. I was really in a scared little boy in an adult body. And that's a dangerous person. Dangerous, man. And I was like, man, I have a lot to lose here. Like what if actually something happened like really bad in this fight? What if, I don't know, I hurt myself. I hurt him.

Someone came out and stabbed me. Who knows? I go to jail. Whatever happens. And that was a wake-up call. And even bigger, which was one of the greatest blessings my friend gave me, a friend of mine that I was playing with that day, he said, Lewis, I don't like your behavior

and I don't want to play basketball with you anymore. If you're going to keep acting like this, he was kind of saying, I don't want to be your friend anymore if you can't figure out what's going on within you. I love you and accept you, but I don't want to get hurt because of your actions and behaviors. And that was a big wake-up call. That's when I was finally say, okay, the world isn't out to get me. It's not everyone else's problem. It's my responsibility to look within and see why am I so triggered and reactive in life? Now I had love, joy, fun. I was like a fun guy, but man, you poke me, poke a little bit. I was like, you know, it's like there was this guard,

this sort of protection, these masks that I would wear to fit in, to belong, to be accepted, to be seen. But it's so hard to belong and fit into others if you don't belong to yourself. That's right. If you don't own who you are and accept your past. This is why when I read this book, I was like, own your past. I was running away from my past. I was like, let alone run away.

I was just trying to like- That's a cultural narrative. If I can get this car and this money and this whatever, this, this, this, this, then- The girl, everything, right? It all works. The accolades, all this stuff. If I can mask with car and this money and this whatever, this, this, this, this, then. The girl, everything, right? It all works. The accolades, all this stuff. If I can mask with a false sense of confidence, then I'll be okay. But I was never okay.

And it's funny. Have you, you know, Dr. Wayne Dyer? Have you ever heard of Wayne Dyer? He passed away a number of years ago, but he was a big speaker and personal development coach. And he used to have this analogy that said, when you have an orange and you squeeze an orange, what comes out of an orange is orange juice. It's juice. It's orange juice because that's what's inside of an orange. When you squeeze a human being, when you apply pressure to a human, what comes out of a human is what's inside.

And if we have pain, unresolved trauma, as you know, and talk about this constantly, when that is squeezed and there's pressure applied to it, anger, resentment, defensiveness comes out because that's what's inside of us. But when we learn the strategies that you teach in your book and what I studied in my book, you start to mend and heal and create new meaning from those past memories. Then what's inside of you is something that's more peaceful and in harmony to your highest self, not your hurt self. That's right. When your body understands we weren't okay then, but we're okay now. That the adult in you has got the younger you. So you talked about let's go with something more

weird. You said, I like to go weird places. Two years ago, I started on the journey of healing to the next level, different wounds. 10 years ago, it was the sexual abuse and kind of healing that psychological, emotional memory and wound. Because for 25 years, I didn't tell a soul this happened to me. And the things we conceal has power over us. There's actually in the, I just pulled it out, but there was a chapter and it's something new I'm working on

called the biology of secrets. And I don't believe our bodies are designed. Like up until just a few years ago, we all lived in one room house like this, right? And everybody knew everything. Everyone knew secrets, yeah. And this idea that I can go in a room and shut the door and put podcast, like, and just have this internal world,

that's new to our species, right? And so, yeah, like, was it, is it, it's Dr. Brown, Brene Brown says, shame eats secrets for breakfast, right? That whole, when you hold on to it. When we conceal those past pains, those things have power over us.

So for 25 years, I was powerless to this shame, this insecurity, this fear, this doubt, this thing that I was afraid that if anyone knew this about me, no one would accept me and love me. That's right. Because I didn't accept me and love me. That's right. And so for me, it became a process of going back two years ago to every memory that caused any pain.

And the emotional coach that I was working with had me put a photo of my five-year-old self from that time on my screensaver. I don't have it anymore, but I had it for about six months. Every time, 50, 100 times a day, I'm looking at my five-year-old self. Now, let's talk about weird

because I know this is where you like to go. This is the nerdy stuff that you like to dive into. I did this and I didn't just have a photo of myself and say, okay, it's nice to look at myself. I practiced every week with a coach, a guide to navigate all the different areas of those emotional memories that caused me pain. And I started to create a healing energy with my current self, the adult self in the room now, with that child. So what I did, I did some weird stuff, weird exercises. And I'm all about the physical exercises needed to release trauma and to mend and create meaning.

That's right. So one of the things I did, she said, I want you to go home and I want you to pray and meditate for a period of time and get yourself in a calm, meditative state. And then I want you to imagine and call forth the five-year-old version of yourself. Close your eyes and see him coming up to you and just notice him. Notice his energy, notice his awkwardness, notice his insecurities, his fears, his doubts. Notice how he's clenching himself. Notice all the things about him that you're seeing that you felt 35 years ago. And I want you to have a conversation with him from the person you are today of what he needed to hear back then.

And so I was imagining this. Again, I'm going there. I don't know if this is what your audience is into, but I was going there and having this conversation with my five-year-old self. And I was like, I'm so proud of you. You're so courageous. What you're experiencing is not what people are supposed to experience, but it's all going to be okay. And I've got you now. I've got us now. And I did this conversation, this kind of process with

myself while literally visualizing my little self right in front of me. And then again, I'm going a little weird here. After I had this full conversation, I said, how do you feel? What's going on? What do you need? And I just kept saying, is there anything else? Kind of like a therapist would say, is there anything else? Like, what else do you need? Just tell me everything.

And I said, I'm so proud of you because you're able to take us to where we are now. You overcame it. You endured it. But holding onto that doesn't serve us anymore. So I brought my little self spiritually, metaphorically into my heart and just gave him a big hug and embraced him. And then I just kept practicing kind of this, this new story and belief and meaning around looking at this little boy that was me and is me and just said, man, I'm proud of you. And I created a new relationship with those years

of uncertainty and fear. And I started doing that from a five-year-old self to 12-year-old self to 17-year-old self until I brought it all the way to now. So all the different painful things from our past, again, own your past. You can't own a part of your past and look over other parts. All of your past, if you want freedom, if you want peace, you know this better than anyone.

And all the research that I've done from all these great neuroscientists, therapists, spiritual leaders, mental health experts, they all talk about healing all parts of your past if you want freedom. Yes. And I had healed certain parts 10 years ago,

but not every part. So I got some freedom, but I was still having chest pains. What was that like? Because I've seen grown men. So yes, we have a great gang that follows me all down those rabbit holes. I love. So it's not too weird. No, no, no, no, we have a great gang that follows me all down those rabbit holes. I love.

So it's not too weird. No, no, no, no, no. Let me ask it this way. I've seen grown men get catatonic during those moments or weep in a way that the most common phrase I hear is, if I start crying, I'm never going to stop. Yeah, man. It's scary sometimes. Or maybe it was a peaceful moment.

Not everybody. Let me take you back to the moment where I actually told someone for the first time. Okay. It was terrifying to realize that. To say the words out loud.

It was terrifying. I thought I was going to die. Okay. Emotionally. Obviously, physically, it feels like you're physically like, because you think, or let me speak for myself, I thought if anyone knows this about me, they will never accept me and love me again, and I'll be alone forever and die alone.

That's kind of like how far it goes. And so after this fight happened, I was like, okay, let me take a look in the mirror and see what can I learn? Now, as a cocky 30-year-old who thought he knew everything already in life, because I was successful in sports, because I got results in business, I was like, what can you guys teach me? I've gotten results. You haven't got results. Don't tell me what I need to change. It was this very defensive ego attitude that doesn't serve me.

I started to say, okay, I'm going to start asking questions to people. I'm going to start looking for a coach, therapist. I'm going to start finding spiritual leaders. I'm going to go workshops. Whatever people recommend me, I'm going to ask for feedback. I'm going to go do it. And I went to this one emotional intelligence leadership workshop. And it was like two weekends back to back, like four days each weekend.

And in the second week I did it, it got pretty intense. It was pretty intense of like going into your past, doing exercises with like individual small groups, like playing games, exercises to reenact situations in life, and then reflect and journal on what these things taught you and how you reacted in the kind of the workshop safe setting. That's a hot room, dude. Hot room, right? That's a hot room, man. So after like the halfway mark of the second weekend, we had did a lot of intense stuff, like talk about mom and dad and past pains and wounds and all these different things, like just going there, screaming, catharsis, all this stuff, journaling, reflecting, people are crying, sharing. And the trainer says, okay, we have addressed the past and we are creating a vision of the future that we want to create.

And so we're going to start working towards our future. And we're not going to think about the past. We're going to focus on a vision and a mission and how you want to show up in the world as your authentic self and creating an identity that is healthy and all these things. But in order to do that, we must make sure we've gone through everything in the past. We must essentially own our past. So if anyone has anything left to say that you haven't said yet, it's kind of like now is your moment or forever hold your peace. And I'm going through my head. We're all sitting there in kind of like a half circle with like an open space at the front.

And I'm sitting there. I'm kind of like, it's silent for like a minute. I'm like, okay, I talked about my parents getting divorced and struggling there. I talked about being picked on and being bullied and being picked last in sports teams in elementary school, which drove me. I talked about like breakups from girlfriends that hurt me and like the sadness I felt, all that stuff. And I was like, why have I never told anyone this one thing that comes up in my mind almost every day? And I just thought to myself, I was in a state of like vulnerability. People were opening up in a safe environment after a couple of weekends where I was like, okay, it just came to me. I was like, if I don't share this now,

I may keep this to my grave. Yeah. I may never say this. Like, it's either now or never. And whatever reason, I just like got up out of my chair.

I walked to the front of the room and I remember I put my face down and it was like a carpet and everyone was in like a half semicircle around sitting. And I remember

I couldn't look up in anyone's eyes. I had so much shame. So much shame. And I remember I couldn't look up in anyone's eyes. I had so much shame, so much shame. So I looked down the whole time and I just took a deep breath and I walked through the entire story of being five and being sexually abused by the babysitter's son for the first time, this like adult son. And I told the whole story and I was able to get through it like pretty calm, I think because I didn't look up at anyone. And then I like walk back to my seat.

I sit down. I like sit up and look up. There's a woman, two women sitting on either side of me in the chairs. They're weeping. They both clinched me and hugged me. And for whatever reason, I was one of those guys that just started like releasing 25 years of pain, sadness, anger, resentment, and just started bawling, bawling, weeping. And the weeping and the crying made me feel shameful. And I felt shameful thinking like, oh my gosh, this is, my life is over. I literally, after a few moments, run out of the room. We're in the middle of a

workshop. I run out of the room. It's in like a conference ballroom in a few moments, run out of the room. We're in the middle of a workshop. I run out of the room. It's in like a conference ballroom in a hotel. I run outside of the hotel into like the back alley. There's a wall. I put my head on my hand and just kind of lean against the wall. And I'm just weeping, crying. I'm just like, I can't breathe. A few minutes go by and I'm just thinking, I'm not going back in there.

I'm done. This is like, my life's over It feels like you're dying this grieving process I feel a tap on my shoulder a few minutes later This guy turns me around he looks me dead in my eyes, he's probably like 55 60 years old he looks at me he goes You're my hero You're my hero I was 11 when this happened to me. I've got a wife and

three kids. They don't know. I've been suffering for however many years married with this. I didn't think I'd ever tell anyone. You gave me permission to tell my, I get chills thinking about this because, and then a bunch of other men came out and a couple, it was only a couple of the guys that experienced some type of sexual abuse, but it was like so many men had something else that they were holding onto. They weren't sexually abused, but it's like, I feel shame around this. I feel shame around this. And I've never told anyone. And I was just like, what? I thought, first off,

I was the only one in the world who had been sexually abused. And so I thought I was something wrong with what's wrong with me. And the more I started to study and research it, one in six men had been sexually abused. And so I thought I was something wrong with what's wrong with me. And the more I started to study and research it, one in six men have been sexually abused, right? It's one in four with women. I still don't believe that one in six number. I think it's more. It might be. That's me. Yeah. That's like men that are willing to talk about it. Right. And, um, but this was in, this was 10 years ago when I opened up about it. I had never seen whether I wasn't willing to acknowledge it when I saw it. I don't remember seeing anyone talk about it on TV, like men.

I don't remember athletes opening up or singers or role models being like, oh, this is what happened to me. Business leaders. No one talked about these things back then. And we're starting to see men now open up more. Athletes are starting to open up. People are talking about these things. But I just thought my life was over. But that was the moment my life began. That's right. That was the moment where it unlocked the ability to start feeling freedom. I didn't feel free yet, but it opened the door for peace to come in.

And that was the start of what has what has been now a 10 year learning, trying, mistakes, growing, falling back two steps, moving forward, getting in alignment, you know, healing, trying lots of different modalities from again, workshops to I'm talking deep meditation retreats in India to neuroscience meditation retreats with Dr. Joe Dispenza to, um, you know, extreme breathing and cold therapy with Wim Hof in Iceland, climbing mountains half naked in the snow, being pelted by, uh, by snow and doing breathe breath work and meditation and mindfulness and cold therapy, like from emotional coaches to spiritual coaches and trying everything.

And I don't think there's one thing that is the end all be all. I think it's like, do whatever you can do to create and be peace and free inside of you. So it's been a journey, man. But that was kind of when it started to open up. That's awesome. Thanks for your bravery on sharing that.

Of course. As you mentioned, the number of people who are listening to this, the men who will hear it and say, maybe I can say it out loud. And maybe the women listening to this can say it out loud or they can turn and look to the person they're dating or married to and say, is there any stories you've known? You know what I mean? It just needs somebody to go first. And I'm not saying you need to say it publicly And I'm not saying you need to say it publicly, and I'm not saying you need to say it

to your partner right away. Right. Then create an environment where you can say it to a trusted advisor. That's right. A counselor, a therapist, a priest, a spiritual leader, someone you truly trust first to allow you to start processing it.

Do not process it alone. I just think that's the hardest thing to do and near impossible. It's impossible. The great David Kessler says, grief demands a witness. And I love that line. Just like the, it only works if I'm with.

That's why every great religion over time has confession built into it. You got to sit with somebody else and say, this happened, right? And we've kind of taken that out, right? And I just think when we conceal past shame and pains, it makes us more happened, right? And we've kind of taken that out, right? And I just think when we conceal past shame and pains, it makes us more powerless, as opposed to stepping into a greatness mindset.

And that's just one of the elements. So it's first like recognizing where are the areas of my life that I am allowing powerlessness to rule me as opposed to peace and greatness to inspire me. So how do you do that when the cultural winds are so opposite that? Man, we always go- They're blowing the wrong way there.

Yeah, man. I mean, I don't know about you, but I grew up in the 80s in Ohio and playing sports, you couldn't show any emotion. No. On the field, off the field, there was no room. An ounce of emotion was like, okay, we're going to name call you. We're going to pick on you. We're going to like call you a little wussy or whatever.

We're going to like haze you for months. And so it was always a mask. It was always rub the dirt on it. Like don't show your emotional. Don't show you cried. Don't show anything. So it was an unlearning of a model that I experienced that served me to get certain results, but didn't create freedom inside of me. And so it was.

But it's both end, right? Like you got to feel it. And experience it. And then go do it. Go do the next right thing. You got to do the next right. That's the integration. Right.

That's hard. That's asking someone to live the paradox, right? As a doctor and a mental health coach, you know, that integration is how you really heal. It's the awareness of, okay, I'm awakening to this idea that, wow, I've struggled this whole time and this, or I've been afraid to do this thing. A lot of times we're unconscious of it. It's just happening. But okay, now I'm conscious of this. I'm aware. Now I've got to process this thing. I've got to allow myself to release it in some way. That can be physical, emotional, spiritually,

like connecting with someone, however you want to release it. And then allowing yourself to integrate the nervous system healing when the response happens again. I don't know if you've ever been triggered in life where someone like poked something on you and you're like, you're reactive, right?

Where you felt like, oh, that didn't feel good. I don't think the goal is to never like not feel a range of emotions, but when our emotions are running our decisions and we're reactive based on a wound, it just means it's pulling our energy away from service. It's pulling our energy away from love and connection and generosity. I call it the gap.

If I can just lengthen that gap between, I just felt this and whatever I'm about to do next, say it, feel it, whatever. If I can just stretch that gap a little bit. That's it, man. Yeah. So my intention is how do I keep learning and integrating how to make sure my nervous system is safe with me no matter what happens around me. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the

costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks

with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Diloni to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Diloni. At what point does, okay, so you're somebody I've watched from afar, and I've actually had this thought over and over. Does that guy go home every day and be like, well, I got to do this one now? Like, because you, on your show, you're talking to high achiever after high achiever

after high achiever after high achiever. And as soon as I meet a high achiever, I'm always like, well, I'm going to try that too. I want to try that too. And I have thought without ever knowing you, that's got to be exhausting. Like every ride home has to be like, well, I guess I need to move everything to crypto. And the next week, like, well, I guess I need to move everything back into cash. And I need to try this workout, this workout, workout this workout here's the question I'm beginning to ask myself very similar I haven't been to to

India Iceland but have followed very similar yes you just go to the university and study like a

like a research exactly I sit in my cold tub which is a like a like a a trough in your science room

a trough I bought at a tractor supply for a hundred bucks. At what point are we running still? We've just found a new thing to chase. I don't think it's running. I think it's- Or pursuit of. Yeah, I think it's trying things on and seeing what works for us. Okay.

It's, I'm always- Because I struggle with that because I'm always going with this idea of I got to get somewhere to the next level or the next layer, whatever words you want to use. And I'm starting to step back and look at some of the great thinkers that I still read now. And they almost had a de-evolution process, right? It almost went the other way. Well, I don't think there's fulfillment without growth. Okay.

I think we've got to be growing in some way. That could be learning. That could be reading. That could be trying new skills. It could be playing games and doing stuff. We've got to be growing in some way, I think, in order to feel fulfillment and feel like, okay, I'm not being complacent. I'm not saying you have to always be striving for the next thing, but I think growth and contribution are a huge part of fulfillment. When I'm learning, when I'm growing and developing as a human, and I'm also contributing to someone else's life, there's a lot more fulfillment in that process, as opposed to I've stopped growing. I'm not growing at all. I'm just going to stay where

I'm at and not learn anything new, not try anything new, and I'm just going to do exact same things. That's the thing that haunts me is there a moment when growth becomes cancer, right? Where it won't stop multiplying. When it's obsessive growth. Yeah. When it's obsessive growth. But if it's tied to, what is it? Tied to contribution.

So it's, I mean, it's contribution service. For me, it's all about service. But, and so when I'm doing interviews and I'm learning new things, a lot of it's just confirming that I'm doing the right things. Okay. That I'm on the path that like, okay, you're just saying something in a different way

that I'm already doing. Good. I think for someone like me and others, we need constant reminders to stay on track of doing the right things. No. You know, it's like a lot of us-

I got it, man. Right? A lot of us know what to eat that's going to make you healthy. They know how to work out. They know they need to move their body and eat well and sleep eight hours a night and get good rest. But for whatever reason, we don't follow through on it consistently as a society based on results. So it's just about having the consistent lessons, the inspiration, the wisdom

heard in a different way to keep me on track of like, okay, I'm doing the path. I'm being consistent. I'm being disciplined on the path that I'm taking. And it's like, oh, let me try this different style of breathing technique. Maybe that can help me in a stressful moment. Okay, I'm going to try this box breathing technique. That's a 60 second thing and try it on. Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. People can say a lot of different things to try these things and maybe there's like, okay, I haven't tried this thing yet or I just forgot that I'm not, I haven't done this in a while

and I need to get back to this thing. You know what I mean? But that almost makes it equal, as important as the info, the relationship. 100%. Like the interaction. 100%, man. And that's what you talked about in your book, the story of relationships. I think it was that chapter, which was for connection,

which is about like you have friends, you have like people you text, but they're not your close friends anymore. You have people that were like friends in middle school and high school. And then an in-person interaction became a phone call, became a text between,

became a, hey, I'll get back to you later. And it's about the interactions we have with the people in our lives and how we're making an impact and being in service to those people, to them being empowered and winning as well. And that's the difference between success and greatness. Success is selfish. It's all about me.

Let me accomplish this. Let me achieve this goal. Let me win. Let me look good. Let me be a bestseller. There's nothing wrong or bad with the success, but success by itself without the impact and service to others in that pursuit will leave us feeling unfulfilled. Yeah.

So greatness is more about going after your dreams with your unique gifts and talents in the season of life you're in, but empowering those around you. And the great Kobe Bryant said this when I interviewed him, he was like, greatness is about essentially being an inspiration to the people around you and inspire them to be great. And then when they are great, they're going to inspire others to be great. And it's about that ripple, that impact of service through your talent, through your gift, through your creativity and whatever that is. And I realized that most of my life was being successful for me to feel good, but I was leaving out others. It's a duct tape over, the wallpaper over that, yeah.

It was a win-lose mentality. Yep. And nobody wins unless everyone wins. Right, right. And I didn't understand that concept until 30, until I had breakdown after breakdown after breakdown. And I learned for the first time the concept of win-win at 30. As an athlete growing up, there was only one winner and everyone else was a loser.

And that meant when I lost, it didn't feel good. Yeah. And I did everything to win. Things that, like, I just drove myself crazy to win. And then I still didn't feel enough. And that's when I started shifting. 10 years ago, I created a show called The School of Greatness that wasn't about me. It was about others. And I said, I'm going to go on a journey and humble myself. And I'm going to interview all the

experts and shine the light on others and just ask questions and humble myself. And it's been a decade of consistently doing that. And the picture there that you're painting is, is beautiful when it comes to greatness, because I'm hearing in this one conversation, very few people can say, when I was talking to Kobe that one time, but there's greatness on the basketball court and there's greatness that his legendary greatness in the gym, right? Like behind closed doors where nobody's watching. And then there's greatness of a young man rocking back and forth and putting his head down and walking up to the front of a small group and saying this happened to me yeah right and it's that it's everywhere in between right and the the men who went home and talked to their

families for the first time or talk called the counselor for the first time right greatness the spectrum is so powerful yeah right that ripple effect it doesn't matter the the the magnitude of what you want to do in life it's not greatness is not about curing cancer or winning a world championship it's about pursuing your unique gifts and talents and in that pursuit making a difference on the people around you in a positive way. It's not about even accomplishing the pursuit. Although, yes, we want to accomplish our goals and things like that. But just because the dreams don't come true sometimes doesn't mean your life and the experience

wasn't a dream come true. Doesn't mean what you learned in the process wasn't a dream come true. It's amazing, man. So we got to learn to interpret it and have a different perspective around what it looks like and also know that we are all in different seasons of life. And you might be in one season for three months or two years

that you don't want to be in, but you're trying to get out of, and then it's going to expand to something bigger and greater for the next season. But you needed that challenging season to get to the next stage. And the challenge is to hang on. Hang on. Because the next stage is coming, right? All right. So I'm going to get to your book here.

Phenomenal. Thank you. Phenomenal. And we were talking off air. It makes me feel happy because I'm super insecure. And the fact that you've got to meet all these great people that I just revere through their work, man. And you did such a great job. This is just a masterpiece.

It's awesome. Thank you. So I'm going to tell you some things that as I went through this. Yeah. You have a story where you broke your wrist when you were on the verge of, you're playing arena football league and you're with dreams of aspirations of going to NFL and you broke your wrist, ended up being a more serious break. And while you're at home,

like any athlete who's been laid up, there's that little bit of doubt and a little bit of, I'll be back. And then that little bit of like people like, Hey, are you still playing? And you're like, no, I'm hurt but i'm like there's all that right and if you're an athlete you get that well then your dad gets in yeah a life-altering car wreck yep yeah big brain injury yeah here's where my head went so i've spent most of my career showing up to that

situation either to tell lewis hey this just happened or with the family right yeah so when i'm reading this part in your book here's here's the hook into my heart tell me about being a son a strong powerful pro football player yeah right right which puts you in the top one percent of the top one percent and there's this moment we all have when our dads are suddenly powerless yeah take me back there as this you can't go overseas so he was on a vacation he was in new zealand and i had just broken three ribs the next day in a football game. So I couldn't travel for a few weeks. Can't travel. Yeah. And then he comes back and there's that shape-shifting moment where I can do all things. I can lift. I can do the 225 bench workout. I can do all that.

I can't fix that. Nah, man. It was devastating. Take me back there. It was sad, man. I remember him coming off the plane. We were at the airport waiting for him to come back. And he's kind of like being helped to walk.

He can't fully really walk by himself, but he's kind of hobbling off of like the airport coming towards the exit. And I give him a hug. And it was the moment I was like, oh man, he's a completely different person. Like mentally, emotionally, psychologically, personality wise, he's different. And I was like, okay, well, he's going to come back. You know, he's going to get better. And I remember just year after year, it was a struggle, man.

He didn't, he got a little bit better, but his personality almost completely changed. Not because he wanted it to, but the brain trauma was so intense that it just messed up the chemicals in his brain. So it was very challenging. Every time I'd go and see him, he'd say, what's your name? Oh, that's right, Lewis. Yeah. You used to play sports, right? What sport did you play again? Where did you go to school? And here's a man who went to almost every one of my games. He was on the field taking photos, was like championing me, like celebrating me all the time in athletics. He was there. He showed up. For him to not even know that I used to play sports and have to constantly, for 17 years, he used to be like, where'd you go to school again? So I have

to show him photos and remind him. He goes, oh yeah, okay, yeah. You play football, right? And oh yeah. But it was just, man, it's just hard when you're used to seeing something with someone you know, your father, and he's not that anymore. It's like he almost, it's like he died. That's right.

Emotionally. But he- But physically he was there. I've had someone describe, maybe one of the most heart-wrenching, heartbreaking conversations I've ever had was someone explaining what it's like when a parent has Alzheimer's. Yeah, man.

It's so hard. And to have your mom look at you and not know your name. It's really hard, man. She said it's disorienting. It's really, yeah. It's traumatizing. Yeah. It affected all of us.

I have three siblings, and I'm the youngest of four. So it impacted all of us in different ways. And we all experience us in different ways. And we all experienced pain in certain ways. And at the same time, it helped define me into wanting to make an impact and serve people in a bigger way. So I wish it didn't happen, but at the same time, I eventually, after about four or five years, accepted it because it was going to drive me mad because I kept trying to change it and force it. Like, what can I do to make this? What doctor can I call?

Who can I get him on a program? And we just need to teach him more. We need, you know, trying to force something and realizing like he's got a different purpose. He can't work. He can't cook. He can't drive. He can't do anything. He sits there and he doesn't want to have a drive anymore.

He was a big, loving, happy, driven, smart man. And the brain just so affected that. It's different now. It's different. And accepting him where he's at was one of the hardest things. Accepting your father, not recognize you, accepting him and just loving him with his new purpose for this season and i never was able to really grieve though because he was still alive yeah he passed a

year ago okay i'm sorry to hear that thank you yeah thank you and it was it was like the first time i could grieve after 17 years of his first death his emotional and mental death. But last year he physically passed. And I finally allowed myself to kind of, I like accepted it before, but it was almost like I could finally have a different relationship with him now where I couldn't have them for 17 years. Now I feel like I have a true spiritual relationship with him.

And it's been part of the healing grieving process, you know, as I don't feel like I fully grieved while he was alive, even though he was here. So that was, uh, he was traumatic, man. But, um, you know, we all have different traumas, big T, little T, as you know, and we all have something to face. And that was just the thing that I needed to face. And you talked about how, you know, a lot of people run away from their, I think I can't remember if it's the story of death or story of something, but it was like. We have a culture. Running away from it, hiding it, not talking about it. We outsource it all. I love that chapter about that because, you know,

some of the happiest people in the world think about their death multiple times a day. That's right. I think it's the country of Bhutan that practices five times a day thinking about their death. That's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they focus. I don't think they're obsessing about it.

Of the various stages of them in the grave. But they're just like, okay. And there's an app that a friend told me about called We Croak. And it's an app that five times a day, it tells you you're going to die. And the whole point of it, and then it has like an inspiring quote. So make sure you like appreciate what you have right now. So be in gratitude. So kiss the person you love.

It's a reminder of like life is now. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make

to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. And I think when I asked Kobe about his relationship with his father, I said, what do you think made you great? He said, my parents told me they were going to love me whether I scored every point or no points. And he said one summer in basketball, like when he was 12 or 13,

he was in a summer league practicing, playing in a tournament for months. He said he did not score one point. And his dad and his mom were just like, we still love you we love you no matter what we just want you to have fun and he said it gave him permission to go out and be great yeah and that kind of love anchors you into bedrock so you can repel off right and you can do crazy wild stuff and this goes back to uh after i opened up about the sexual abuse

in this workshop i remember thinking to myself okay these people in this workshop. I remember thinking to myself, okay, these people in this group accepted me because we were all kind of opening up about different stuff. So they, you know, they're strangers. Okay. You know, who cares what happens, but they're safe. But I was like, I don't think I can tell my family or my friends. I don't think they're going to accept me. I talked to a therapist friend of mine and I was like, hey, this thing just happened. I just talked about this and I'm actually really scared because I don't know if anyone else will accept me. How can I even bring this to family and friends? And she gave me a great piece of advice. She said, set a time to call them each individually and ask them a question first and see their reaction and then see how you

feel about it. But ask them, is there anything I could ever say or do that would make you not love me? And based on the response, if you feel comfortable, then you can share if they receive that. And if they say, yeah, absolutely not. And I did that with each one of my family members. I said, is there anything you could ever say, I could ever say or do to make you not love me?

And they're all like, absolutely not. It doesn't matter what you've done. I'm still going to love you. And it. And they were all like, absolutely not. It doesn't matter what you've done, I'm still going to love you. And it gave me permission to reveal myself. It gave me permission to open up and be honest about my shames and insecurities. And then I thought to myself, okay, well, these are my family.

They have to accept me. But my friends, I don't know if they will. But it was a practice of going down and because I still felt powerless, if other people knew this about me, they wouldn't accept or love me. And I think that's where it all comes back to. But what you did was really important. And I hope the listeners hear this. We have a, again, we live in such polarized world,

but we either have people who sit on secrets forever or we've got pathological oversharers. Yes. Right. You're like, hey hey dude, you need to grab a burger. He's like, yeah, and then one time, and you're like, dude. And so,

it's context setting, it's time and place. But you did something magic, which is, you knocked, said, can I come in? Yes. And they said,

come on in. If they're not ready for it, if they're making a joke, or like, eh, what are you going to say? You're crazy? Then maybe don't tell them.

Yeah, exactly. And maybe they're not ready for it. Maybe not ready for it. Yeah. Don't spew it on everyone. There you go, yeah. And I'm not saying you need to say? You're crazy? Then maybe don't tell them. Yeah, exactly. And maybe they're not ready for it. Maybe not ready for it. Don't spew it on everyone. There you go. Yeah. And I'm not saying you need to share with everyone in your life these things.

But I think it's important. Yeah. You got to share with someone. Right. Yes. And if not, it means you're unwilling to let people see inside of you. Okay. Why?

Why? Is this harsh to say it this way um if you're unwilling to let somebody to have that conversation in my head and man tell me i'm wrong you can hit me even there comes a moment when you're choosing to stay here then to stay stuck or stay in that that past yes and it and it pains me to to look at somebody who's experienced abuse, experienced trauma, experienced marginalization and say, from this point forward, you're choosing to stay here for a season. And that's okay. You're free to do that. It's just more powerlessness.

You're powerless. That thing has power over you still. Yeah. If you're unwilling to reveal something or share something or talk about something because you're so afraid, then you're letting fear run your life as opposed to healing and peace and acceptance of who you are or what you've been through. And here's the thing. I am a big believer. I'm assuming you'll agree with this, that the secret to a happy life is relationships. And the secret to happy relationships is vulnerability. That's it.

And dude, I wish there could be any other way. Any other way. Yeah. I wish you could just fake it and just make everything a joke and like, you know, rub off the past and not talk about it. Just have a long text thread of funny memes. Yeah. And that was it.

Which has been your life, it sounds like. It's everyone's life. There's not. There's not. There's not. And when I had these conversations with my family members and I opened up, what do you think happened? They all started to be like, they all shared something about themselves that I didn't know. And it created a bond, a connection of like, wow, I respect, I trust you. I appreciate you more like this connection more. I think you can even flip

that we also have a pathological inability to say the good stuff that's going on and we downgrade it right oh dude but like let's say you cross a billion downloads or whatever the threshold is yeah do you have four or five people you can just pick up the phone and call and they would go dude that's all right you know you can tell the good stuff too also. You haven't interviewed a lot of people on your show, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just take calls. I've interviewed a lot of some of the most famous people, successful people, billionaires, world champion athletes, whatever.

And there's something interesting that happens almost, I don't know, 90, 95% of the time at the end of every episode. From the beginning, I always acknowledge people at the end from what I see in them. After I interview them for an hour or two, I sit there and I'm like, I want to acknowledge you for this gift that I see in you. Number one, most people can't receive acknowledgement. They don't receive praise and celebration or acknowledgement that well. You want to know what most people say at the end when the camera's done and the lights are off

and the mic's shut off? They'll come to me and say, was that good? Was that good enough? Was that okay? And I'm like, you're a freaking this person. You're this person. I'm like, give me some of your talent. I'm like, what? this person you're this person I'm like give me some of your talent

right I'm like what was it good it was incredible but it's like we still feel like we need this did I say everything

the right way should I set it this way it's like this need to be still accepted and like am I enough am I enough okay

before we leave yes you wrote this and I give it to me. This last question said, here's the thing about greatness. Greatness is not about being complete at the start.

It's about being enough, even while you're still growing, developing and changing. And as I read that, here's where the tension comes in. You already are enough when you're in this moment and you're always becoming more. I don't think our culture has a psychological understanding

of the word enough. No, because most people are never satisfied. So how do you balance growing and enough? This is the thing with high achievers too.

It's like, because they've never been satisfied, that's what's driven them to get the results they're at. And so they're like, well, I don't want to be satisfied because I'm not going to have this chip on my shoulder. I'm not going to have this drive or this hunger to go for more. And then what? Then I might lose it all.

My edge. My edge, right? And here's the thing. The enemy of greatness is lacking a meaningful mission. And a meaningful mission is not just about your success for your benefit. It's about your success in the service of others as well. And when we define clearly, this is the difference between a greatness mindset and a powerless mindset. When you define a meaningful mission, which includes others, you have a renewable energy and you

don't want to stop and you don't feel like you're burning out. Like I'm on this. When it's in service to somebody else. It's in service to others. You might have moments of like, okay, I'm tired. Like I'm in a season of like, you know, foreign interviews today and traveling on no sleep, but I'm doing it in the service of others, not for me to look good.

And now I'm going to need to go back and rest and recover and all these things, but I don't feel burnt out. I feel excited every day about what I'm doing because the mission is meaningful to me and it's not about me. It's about including service to other people in the process. And so when I measure my worth

based on service to others and my generosity of my energy, my attitude, my effort, not on the success or the results, I feel a lot better about me because it doesn't determine how many books I sell or how many downloads I have or how many followers I have.

It determines did I show up today in service to my mission. And if I did that, I am satisfied with my effort today. I am enough today. Did I accomplish the mission? No. So let me get back up and keep growing and keep serving. But I'm at peace with who I am and the efforts I have in this moment. Dude, this has been one of the most important conversations in my life.

And I could show you here on my garment that my heart rate's lower, but there's some hard conversations I need to have. And I want to thank you because you were willing to have those hard conversations and come here and help me be a little more peaceful. That's going to help me be a better dad to my little girl, to my son and to my wife. Definitely not her dad. She's more of my mom, but I can be a little more peaceful. That's going to help me be a better dad to my little girl, to my son and to my wife.

Definitely not her dad. She's more of my mom, but I can be a good husband. So I want to thank you for your time. Of course, man. You don't get this hour back of your life and you shared it with me and I'm grateful for you. Appreciate you, brother. Appreciate you, man.

Appreciate you, bro.