The Dr. John Delony Show - Pat Lencioni on Leading Through Serving

Episode Date: February 4, 2022

Today, we’re hosting leadership and organizational health expert and legend Pat Lencioni. In one of the best conversations on the show to date, we cover topics like why money won’t make you happy, the purpose of pain, and how to lead through serving. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we have an incredible guest, Pat Lencioni, one of the most famous consultants in the United States. He's a bestselling author. We talk about money, marriages, avoiding pain, what's wrong with our culture, what's wrong with everything, and how to fix it. Stay tuned. Heyo, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

Hope you're doing well. Hope you're healthy. Hope you're laughing. Hope you've got joy in your life. And if things are hard for you right now, hope you've got people that are walking alongside you. So glad that you are here. This show, we talk about mental health,

relationships, everything. If you want to be on this show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. And when I say give me a buzz, really, you're just going to leave a message and Kelly gets it. And, man, if Kelly calls you back, do they feel like they win something when you call them? I bet they do. No. No?

I don't think so. If you ever called me, I would feel like I won something. Like hearing your voice is a joy. On the phone. Not in person. Not when I'm in trouble. It's like a good thing. I've called you plenty of times and you didn't really seem like you felt like you won something.

Oh. Well, just know in my heart I did. Kelly will call you if she selects you for the show and it will feel like you won something. I think you will. Or you can go to johndeloney.com slash ask, fill out the form and be on the show. Today, we have an incredible guest. One of the smartest men I've ever met. One of the kindest, the most generous people. You know, you just meet somebody and you just think, gosh, I hope I can be like that person someday. Just because they're so generous and kind and wise and gentle and kind and hilarious and giving and all those things.

Talking about Pat Lencioni. And if you've never heard that name, I don't blame you. He works behind closed doors. He's got one of the most successful consulting firms on the planet. He works with leaders. He works with people behind closed doors, helping them become better leaders, helping them take care of their businesses. And the reason I'm on the show, he's as a couple of reasons. Number one, he's written some of the most important books I've ever read. The five dysfunctions of a team,

ideal team player, incredible, incredible books. And he writes in a way that is accessible for everybody. Um, that to me is the mark of a true genius. Somebody could take really complex ideas and write them. He writes in, um, in story and in story and it's just remarkable. And he's got a new assessment out that was originally designed for leaders, but has proven to really be revolutionizing marriages, friendships, working partnerships, all of it. And so we have them on the show today. We talk about our cultural obsession with money, avoiding pain, trust, and vulnerability, what that looks like in leaders and in people, what's wrong with business and politics. And we talk about code.

We talk about everything on the show. Talk about it all. It's a blast. Put in your earphones or tell the kids to go for a walk and listen to this one with Pat Lencioni. Okay, so hey, you work with leaders all over the country. How'd you get into this? Like, how did this start? That's a great question. I was a kid. I didn't know it at the time, but I was a kid and my dad would come home from work and say, and he'd complain about work. I didn't know what work was. And then he'd talk about his manager.

I didn't know what a manager was, but it wasn't good. And I remember thinking, that's dumb. You know, I like my dad. I love my dad. I don't want him to't good. And I remember thinking, that's dumb. You know, I like my dad. I love my dad. I don't want him to be like that. I didn't like that he felt that way. And I remember as a kid, that was always planted a seed in my head. Then I went to college and we were relatively poor. And so I needed to get a good job. And a management consulting firm said they're high. And I thought management and consulting, that's exactly what this is. And it had nothing to do with that. It was all number crunching. So I struggled for two years, but then I got my first view at business.

And then I said, okay, I'm interested in that human part of this work. And so it wasn't really a field for it. No, it didn't exist. No. And so I started doing things and pursuing that. And the next thing you know, I was thinking, do I go to work? Steve Jobs offered me a job to work at Pixar.

Oh, wow. And then Eric Schmidt offered me a job to work at Novell at the time. And I was like, no, no, no. I love this field. So me and a few colleagues started a company 24 years ago and said, let's help all companies get healthier.

And we didn't have any books or anything like that. We were just going to go out and consult. And by the grace of God and that true north of like, I really want people to enjoy and be dignified in their work. That's how this came about. I don't have a graduate degree in anything. But you've got 100,000 hours sitting knee to knee with people. Right, right. And I almost went to graduate school a few times, but there've got a hundred thousand hours sitting knee to knee with people, right?

Right. Right. And, and I almost went to graduate school a few times, but there was not really a program for that. Exactly. And I was like, I think that I'll just be back here trying to get this job again. So that's kind of how it all worked. Wow.

And so if you look at the arc of business leadership and health over the last 24 years till now, where are we? Well, like so many things, I think it's kind of bifurcated. I think there's some really healthy leaders and companies out there and there's some really unhealthy ones. And I think that a lot of young people have now grown up seeing a lot of these Silicon Valley leaders

who are what I call selfish, self-oriented, they're reward-centered, like what do I get out of this? Gotcha. And so they call selfish, you know, self-oriented, they're reward centered. Like, what do I get out of this? Gotcha. And so they watch the, you know, what's the movie about social, social network. And they're like, yeah, that's the way, that's what a leader is. And they see all these things. So there, I think there's a bifurcation. There's those people in the world that are like, no, I gotta, I gotta be a humble leader. I gotta serve these people I work with, servant leadership, which is the only kind. But then there's others that watch TV

and see the famous ones and go, hey, it's all about being cool and pretty rich. So I think there's a real bifurcation and it's a battle. You know, I want people to realize if you're not a servant leader, you're not a leader at all. So that's all there is.

Why, you've worked with them them i've worked with them for years why it seems like you can tell people all day long that money doesn't make you happy enough of it does let's be honest having money is better than not having money but it doesn't solve the hole in you and it you cannot tell somebody that you literally have to experience it and then say i'll see you when you get back yeah i i don't know that's the one thing i can tell somebody don't do drugs and they eventually are like go have fun with your life cocaine will ruin your life right and eventually i buy that or hey don't do this i but money that conversation is the one that i can't seem,

I've never been able to break through to myself, to anybody around me. It seems to be this carrot that's always moving. Yeah. And I suppose for some people, it depends on how much money they need in order to realize that. Ah, okay.

Like some people need like, oh, I become, I made this much money and I have a nice, and this isn't making me happy. I think this is the wrong path. Like Mike Singletary was the coach of the 49ers years ago. And he was a football player. And he used to wear a cross.

And they'd say, why do you wear the cross? Have you always done that? And he goes, no, no. I started doing this after my team won the Super Bowl. And they said, what do you mean? He goes, because after we won, I wasn't happy. And I realized that's why. So he needed to win the Super Bowl to realize it wasn't about winning and fame

and all that other kind of stuff. And maybe somebody makes their first million dollars. For another person, they might have to make $100 million. Some of these guys have made billions of dollars. I don't know what Jeff Bezos lives for. And they're still chasing it. Yeah. Going to outer space.

To me, it's just a drug. Yeah. He's just still. Every person I've ever worked with behind closed doors, it's a drug. Yeah. And it, he's just still. Every person I've ever worked with behind closed doors is it's, it's a drug. Yeah. And whether it's, it's, and it's a small scale, like whether it's another publication or in my nerd world or this or that, it just keeps moving and moving. Right.

Hey, you know, a great quote, I think it was St. Augustine who said, whether a bird is tied down by a chain or a string, it doesn't matter because it still can't fly. So whether it's pornography and prostitution and cocaine or money and fame and and and and that it to me it doesn't matter being the biggest baddest associate director of the mail room no it doesn't matter no right absolutely you make your kingdom the the wherever you happen to be placed it ends in ash every time every time every time I wish there was a prophylactic, I wish there was a way we could get upstream and tell,

I could tell my son that. And it just seems to, that seems to be the drug, man. Well, and I try to do, tell my sons and other young people, I'm like, listen, so I've done better

than I ever thought I would do in my life. Yeah. But I realized years ago this doesn't matter. Absolutely. And let me tell you, when sometimes people

recognize me, so I'm not like a famous guy, but sometimes I'll be someplace, my kids will see me, people talk to me, and I'll go, just so you know, that doesn't matter. Absolutely. And let me tell you when sometimes people recognize me, so I'm not like a famous guy, but sometimes I'll be someplace. My kids will see me. People talk to me and I'll go just so you know, that doesn't mat feed me. Exactly. You might think that's cool. Yeah. But I used to think it would be. And then I realized you can never get enough of it. Right. That's a, that's a false. It was when I was in the bathroom at a urinal and somebody came in and started talking. A, I was like, that's kind of weird. And I was new to it, so I'm trying to be kind. And then they said, hey man, let me ask you something.

And I realized, oh, we're going to do counseling here. Like, this didn't happen. You know what I mean? That's when I realized this is not, it's different. Now, the opportunity to help people. Yes, it's incredible. That's the gift. And if you weren't on the, but because you're sitting here and there's a camera here Now, the opportunity to help people. Yes, it's incredible. That's the gift.

And if you weren't on the, but because you're sitting here and there's a camera here and people know about that, that doesn't make it different. No, that's right. And I'd rather be living someplace where people didn't know me and I was doing something that God intended me to do

and I was a good person and I knew and I had faith. That person is more successful than a famous person who looks happy when they're on TV and then it goes home and feels empty yeah and I try to scare the hell out of people with that so how how has give me a insight in the last 24 months 36 months you've been business has been on fire right are and somebody asked me the other day in an interview they were asking me about you know you know what's giving all these kids anxiety was it the masks or not and i said i think what's driving childhood anxiety right now is that we've got millions and millions and millions of people

telling them rightly or wrongly that your teachers want to kill you and your churches are failing you and you're and we're terrified it feels like our bedrock institutions have cracks in them and maybe they always have. And we're just not seeing them for the first time. I've been at two different businesses on the, on the front end of this. And it feels like things are doing this. How are business leaders behind closed doors handling this stuff? Or is it smooth sailing? Are they, is it exciting or is it terrifying? And then you

just like, you're a dad, you got two kids, you got kids, you got your husband. I mean, how are you handling that? Just so in case my kids listen to this, which they want, I have four. Oh, four. Two of them will go, hey, what about us? No, no, no. He specifically said he doesn't care about you two guys. You know what I think? I think, first of all, it's not exciting or terrifying. It's sad. I think what's happening is people are wondering if life has meaning. And the blessing in this is this. Your GPA was never your meaning.

The college you went to and getting that sticker on your thing was never meaning. But we were punting that ball down, kicking that can down the street. Now it's awful. It's like, oh yeah, the school doesn't care if we, we're not gonna play a sport this, you know, whatever, or we're closing this down, or the church doesn't think church is that,

or whatever else. And people are like going, well, I was just kind of living for, and it's like, it's making people actually go, what is the meaning? And so I think it's just brought everybody up to the edge of the cliff. And it's a good thing when it brings you to your knees

and you go, oh, okay. I mean, for me, I'm a person of faith of Jesus. And it's like, okay, he's all that matters. That's all I got anyway. That's all I had before. But when I had, you know, my sorority, my fraternity or my college or my lacrosse season or football or this or my job,

those were distractions that made me think life is okay. And now that when those grind to a halt, I think these kids are like, so none of this matters? So this is all, and the thing is they were going to come to that conclusion, whether they did their senior year of college or two years after. Yeah, or 20 years down the road when their spouse drops dead. Yeah, yeah, it happens. And all that stuff I down the road when their spouse drops dead. Yeah. Yeah. It happens. Yeah. And all that stuff I thought I was living for,

it is actually not that real. But, and so it's, this can be a really wonderful thing, but for many where they don't know where to turn, it's the worst thing. Yeah. What about,

I'm talking to you as just as a colleague now, those of my friends that work all over the country behind closed doors with people, whether they're people on the margins or they are the top of the top of the top 1%, the folks who are working with those folks, I'm hearing a level of exhaustion that I've never heard before,

a level of frustration and this close to despair. In the helping professions. Yes. And so I'm talking to you as a colleague there, like as a guy who's just been behind closed doors, man, how are you? Well, the last two and a half years has been the time of the greatest healing in my life.

Okay, that's incredible. By the grace of God, I started seeing somebody a few years ago, a faith-based therapist guy, and came to realize that there were wounds I didn't even know about, and they were actually propelling me to work harder and be more successful, but they weren't satisfying me. That was my prostitute pornography or whatever else.

And so it's been during the same time, this has been a horrible, wonderful, frightening, My prostitute pornography or whatever else. And so it's been during the same time. This has been a horrible, wonderful, frightening, painful, healing, fantastic time. I think that's how it usually goes. And I think that maybe for people who don't understand that there's a purpose to suffering, these last two years have been just all bad. But if it woke us up to appreciating our spouse or our kids or certainly our faith and little things more,

then that can be a great blessing. But if all of our stock was put into our career and our social life and everything else and all that gets taken away and that's all there is, it is absolutely terrifying. And it partly was for me too, but luckily was luckily, I was exploring that at the same time. Yeah. Do you mind digging into that?

No, not at all. What? Cause that's the same drug I am addicted to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me about that. Well, I. Like being with a good trauma therapist, let's say, oh, that's not trauma. And like, no, that is.

And who's able to connect this dot to this dot to this dot. And suddenly you're like, oh, this is the story, man. I'm running a script. I'm the most unoriginal idiot in this. And I think I'm so cutting edge at doing it all. No, man, you know what I mean? Absolutely. You know, this therapist told me two days ago,

because I'm always worried, like, I don't want to be proud. I don't want to be prideful. And he said, you're not, you're wounded and you're shameful. You're afraid you're going to fail and let people down. And that's what's driving you. Not that you think you're important because you don't think you're important at all. And I was like, I'm relieved to know it's not pride. Shame sucks though.

There's a great theologian, Rich Mullins says that often people of faith can be as proud of the things they don't have as those who aren't are the things they do have. Yes. So you can pull up in your 1976 Corolla next to this guy's Lexus and be like, I would never spend money on that. And you're the same person all of a sudden, right? You know, I once heard somebody say. And it's shame, right? Yeah. I heard somebody once say that some saint said humility is being able to look at a cathedral and be proud of it as though you had built it yourself.

As opposed to going, oh, I could have never done that. I'm such a loser. You're right, you're right. So for me, though, it was growing up, thinking that my achievements were going to earn me the love I was looking for. And they just never do. And so you just keep going.

I didn't understand that it was love. I thought I was looking for. Yeah. And they just never do. And so you just keep going. I didn't understand that it was love. I thought I was chasing favor. And it wasn't until I realized, no, beneath favor doesn't, a lot of people tell you they like you and they actually do. They actually do like you. It's something deeper than that.

That's really interesting. Cause I said love and I even hesitate. But you're right. Favor is what you think you want. Yes. But I mean like I got plenty of favor now and it's not filling that hole. That's right. But you're right. Favor is what you think you want. Yes. But I mean, like, I got plenty of favor now and it's not filling that hole. That's right.

And granted, my mom and dad, God bless them, weren't able to fill it. But some of that can't even be filled by your parents. No, that's right. Now, there were things that I didn't get when I was young. They had their own issues, but it was real. Yeah. But ultimately, and again, as a follower of Jesus,

ultimately, I need to know God loves me no matter what I do, no matter what I don't do. And then that's going to let me perform not from a place of fear and shame, but from a place of gratitude and service. Yeah, service. Yeah. What's one thing that you've adopted that's been helpful? Well, something I adopted 13 days ago has been very helpful. Fantastic. I did an anti-New Year's resolution that is, New Year's resolution is about resolve, willfulness, I'm going to do this

and every day I wake up now and I really try to just sit and go whatever you have for me God when we say God's will God's will be done I have a day planned but I don't know what I'm supposed to do whatever you put in front of me if there's a person that needs me or if there's something you call me to do or if something I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Whatever you put in front of me, if there's a person that needs me

or if there's something you call me to do or if something goes wrong at home and I'm supposed to be there for that, let me embrace that. And that has been 13 days, and it's a difference maker. Yeah, that'll change you from the inside out. Right, and I needed that. It's an untethering, right? Oh, my gosh.

This surrender, detachment, submission, all that. And it's like, and I've been saying it, your will be done. It's like, no, that means my will is not. Willfulness is a problem. Right. Even though our society says, be willful, overcome things.

It's like, well, work hard, do your best. But whatever he has for you, you want to seek that and embrace that. I can't say I would do that in my life. I'd be like, yeah, your will be done as long as it involves me. Making this much money and getting this many clients. Yeah. Huh.

That's hard. It's a daily thing. I have a new day resolution every day. I've never heard of that. It might be every half day. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how long we can go before having to remind ourselves of things, but it's certainly not once a year.

And so every day I have to remember, and I'm sure that I get halfway through the day and I'm like, well, crap, here I go. I'm doing my thing again. So it's a constant, constant thing, and it will never be done, and I just hope I never stop doing it. And it gets me through when things get disappointing.

You know, John, you know this better than I do. I think this whole idea of sadness and disappointment being something we're supposed to run from. Oh man. You're going to get me on my soapbox. I was earlier. I don't even know that achievements or I, I think our addictions and we look look at them, like whether they're drugs or money or achievement or whatever, working 90 hours a week. I think that our addiction is to not feeling bad. Yes, absolutely. And we have pathologized any sort of bad feeling. And if you know, folks, and off the top of my head, I just lost it.

There's a disease where you actually lose pain sensory. We were just talking about this the other day. They die early, right? Because they can't get the normal signals that their body's trying to tell them that this is not safe for us. And when we try to go through life avoiding any discomfort, then suddenly you get like we were talking about earlier off air with your kid. Like what you just said makes me uncomfortable. And now I have to ruin your life because that's the only thing I could do to keep my life from being less uncomfortable. Right. I think that's so profound.

We're obsessed with avoiding discomfort. Yep. Absolutely. And, uh, and the whole idea of that suffering has a re a reason and that it's, I like to ask this question to people. I say, would you rather go through life worrying all the time and then never having any things you're worried about happening happen? Or go through life not worrying,

but then have some bad things happen to you? Everybody says the second. Always. And yet we are so, and this is what my problem is. I'm always on high alert for trying to avoid anything that's gonna cause me pain, suffering, disappointment, or sadness. Yeah.

Or worse yet, for my children. Yeah. That's usually childhood-based. It's completely. Henry Cloud is a friend, and he said one day, this is what got me to go to counseling two and a half years ago. He said, Pat, you got some childhood wounds there. Okay, there you go, yeah. And I did, and that's what's been going on for the last two and a half years.

Yeah. Oh, I've been on duty trying to avoid problems and solve problems and avoid feeling. Even before I read the book, I remember seeing the title of Vander Kolk's The Body Keeps the Score, and the title was convicting. Even before I read it, and it's a masterpiece, before I read it, I remember thinking, oh, being on high alert 24-7 for 20 years, 30 years, 40 years. I'm going to die young. My body's going to say, okay, I put my time in.

That's all I got, right? Right, right, right. Man, there's a cost to that. So an addiction to – man, I had a question here I was going to ask you. An addiction to not feeling uncomfortable, not recognizing that discomfort, pain, that's a part of any sort of growth process, period. If you have an abscess, you have to have surgery,

you have to be cut open, literally. Part of healing always involves pain. Part of growing always involves pain. And then I juxtapose that with what's happening in the working world right now you're much more in tune with that than i am um it appears that there is a it may have been bubbling for years and years but a an eruption of employers versus employees this sense of you owe me i deserve it should be like fill in the blank and you can make

that up wherever, whatever, wherever you, industry you happen to be working in, wherever you happen to be living in the country, those things are different. But there's this sense that I should get the job I want and it should be, a track should be laid out for me and all of my care should be taken care of, either by my workplace or my

government. And so I just need to get in the right seat. I did all the right things. And that's not reality. You know what I mean? And then there's this also this pushback, like I don't owe you anything. I don't even have to treat you like a human.

I don't have to serve anybody. I'm the leader. There's this weird collision. It feels like it's all coming undone now. People are just saying, you know what? I'm out. You know, it's interesting, like in a personal relationship,

in marriage, the idea is, oh no, I want to overstep in terms of my grace for you. And that other person oversteps in their grace for them. And then this is beautiful. And today we have this, but in a marriage when it's like, no, I need my 50%. I need my 50. I'm not getting mine. Then it falls apart.

And that's what's going on in society today. It used to be like, no, serve your employer. And the employers are like, no, you got to honor your employees. And I think that because we do have this, and I hate using this word, although, I mean, it's the right word, but I don't know where it comes from. Entitlement. There's a lot of people out there that think that they're owed something. I don't know. I mean, I'm not a historian. I see it on both sides of the ledger. I see my buddies who are leaders are like, they should be doing this. And I think they don't have. I mean, I'm not a historian. I see it on both sides of the ledger. Oh, yeah, sure. I see my buddies who are leaders are like, they should be doing this. And I think, they don't have to, man.

And the other side of it is that saying, my boss should be giving me this and this and this. And I think everybody, it's like a 360-degree entitlement. Well, what's interesting, though, and we're just talking about this now, but that manager is both a manager. So for the CEO and the line employee, okay, that's the purity. But what about the manager of these line employees? They're on both ends. They're serving both sides of the fence. Right. And so what's happened to just the general attitude of why people are feeling like that. And I think it's, that's where I think it gets that institutional trust.

And I do think that there's that, that, uh, gosh, I don't know the answer to this. This is a fascinating conversation. I, I,

I, I, I'm making this up here. I'm spitballing it. The only thing I can think of is the radical movement in the last 25, 30, 50 years, uh, uh, publicly traded companies.

I think Dave does something good here. He consistently puts the customer in front of us and says, here's Susan from Des Moines. We changed her life. Not, look how much money we made, look how much money we made. look how much money we made. And I think when you pull yourself apart from who you're serving and what your product is even doing, and it's just about how much money can I make over time. It goes back to that conversation we had a minute ago about that never fills it up, right?

Service always does. Yeah, you know, it's so interesting. I will tell you throughout my career, I've always really felt bad about companies merging and getting huge. Yes. Because human beings are meant to have relationship with their customers, relationship with their managers and with the leaders of their firms. And so the fact that people feel so distant from their organizations. And so I think that you're right. I think publicly traded companies,

when a company's IPO, I'm always like, my condolences because your life is about to get appreciably worse. Yeah. And frankly, so is the customer. Everybody loses. I don't know. Maybe they don't. And again, I'm so ignorant on business.

They do. Yeah. The only reason a company should go public is because they need the capital because it's in a capital-intensive business. Gotcha. You know what I mean? And there's some – so you have to get capital. But so much of the – if you talk to most people, they're IPOing because they want a short-term payout. Yeah.

I want to make my money now. That's why I can. And I get it. That's the economics of it. But man, is it not a good thing for the working world, for the culture? And what I'm really disappointed in right now, John, is that in this time, in the last two years, the companies that are paying the price for all this government BS are the small and medium-sized ones. The big ones are making out like bandits. Have you seen the split? Yeah.

The wealth generation over the last 24 months has been astounding. Yeah. It's been astounding. And there is a different, you know, we talk about left or right

or all these kind of things. There's an elite culture now. Yeah. And rather than middle class, medium sized, real people, you know, subsidiarity, out know, subsidiarity,

outworking, serving the poor, running a business. That's how a good society works. You have to have that. Right now, we are creating more people that are unemployed, some of which just decide it's just not worth it to work.

That's terrible. And then we have these huge companies that seem immune from the problems in society because they have sweetheart deals with the government. With everything, yeah. And this is a really bad thing. It's happened throughout history, but I can't believe it's happening in my lifetime again. The magic word there is again, like we know this. I feel like it's a guy who responded to that text from somebody at work and got himself in trouble. And

then he healed his marriage, him and his spouse went to counseling. And then 10 years later, somebody texts him and he responds again. And you know where this goes, man. I know. So, you know, there's always hope. We have to be realists. But we have to be realists about what we see is wrong. But the one thing I've learned is that I don't want to either give in or get bitter. Yeah. See, that's the thing. I think that either one of those is such a flex. If you meet somebody who is clear-eyed and says, I'm going to do what I can tomorrow.

Right. But caving to a culture that you know is going the wrong direction and then is creating all this is terrible. But then getting so bitter that it ruins your ability to take a walk with your dog or your wife, your husband. That's bad too. And so to me, I've been driven on my knees to pray. There you go. And it's like, this is the best.

All right. Hey, we'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving and life change and job change, and you've got a tornado of anxiety fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make. This is not a good idea. So if you're a new homebuyer right now, my advice to you is to focus on what you can control, like the people you choose to help you in the home buying process. You need

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because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillemortgage.com slash D'Loney and get the home buyer edge today. All right, let's get into some, I wanna, can we do like a, I wanna do a rapid fire. I don't get to talk to super

great leadership minds a lot. Okay. Well, you're not today either, but I'm gonna do my best. Help me with how a leader can do both or feelings and strength and power and humility. A leader's got to, there's, and here's what I'm getting at. There is a culture of feelings run everything. However I feel runs my day, my work, whatever. And everyone around me needs to be in service to how I feel. And there's also the movement, which is, you know, screw your feelings,

nothing matters, just plow on, you know, drag it, kill it, whatever. And there's a reality in between those two, which is, yeah, your feelings happen and you still got to go about doing what's right or doing what's necessary, et cetera. How does a leader, and that could be a parent, that can be a teacher, that can be a CEO, somebody on their neighborhood watch, I don't care. How do you balance strength and vulnerability, strength and humility and power? How do you balance that stuff? Well, I love this question now and I like how you explained it to me because we are not meant to not be feeling i think about it as parents yeah like if i present myself to my kids that i never have doubt i'm never wrong i'm never

sorry i'm never sad which is a lot of parents can do that that doesn't make sense destroy your children yes and uh at the same time, if I wake up every day and feel like you're responsible for my feelings, my sadness and everything else. And those are the two extremes. Now, most of us think the first one is actually pretty good though.

Like kids, I'm fine. And that's not, I mean, I kind of grew up in an environment like that. My dad was like that. And I didn't understand what vulnerability was. And so I think the thing is we have to say, hey, listen, first and foremost, I'm here to serve you. I'm your leader.

I'm your parent. I'm your whatever, I'm your coach. I am here for you. But I also have legitimate, valid feelings that I will share with you because that's gonna make you a better person to understand that I'm human and to play the role of helping me too sometimes.

That's right. I mean, kids need to know they can support their parents. Employees need to know that they can speak truth to their boss. Athletes on a team need to know that they can help their coach, whether it's in coaching or in life or whatever it is, and to deprive them of that is not a gift. But the question we have to know though is when in doubt, when in doubt, it needs to lean toward the service to others. As a parent,

my feelings have to be just a little less important than those of my kids. But if I try to do that for too long, they're going to pay the price for it. I've done that wrong for years. I thought my job was to prevent them from suffering. And then it wound me up and then it caused suffering for them that I didn't even know was causing them. Which is hard to admit, but so many parents I talked to can relate to that. So I got a call from somebody who I've known for years,

who's long story short, has a child who's getting in trouble with the law and said, hey, I could get a lawyer and do this and do this and do this and maybe get them off, whatever. And I said, are you interested in solving this problem today? Are you going to help this child become a healthy adult? I said, cause if you're going to help me a healthy adult, then you say, I'm like, I can't get you out of this, but I'll hold your hand in the process and I'll go to court with you and I'll hold your hand. And when you get taken away,

I will be the last hug you like that was. And then they'll do their time. And then we'll go to court with you and I'll hold your hand. And when you get taken away, I will be the last to hug you. Like that was, and then they'll do their time, and then we'll go about, you know what I mean? That to me was the, we're playing a long game with our kids, right? Right. So I can say this with fairly high confidence. The difficulty of making the right decision there is because we're caring about ourselves. That's right.

Yeah. Because if I go, so my son has to go to prison or to go to jail or go to juvenile hall or get in trouble, it can be smaller than that too. What does that say about me? That's going to be hard for me.

I'd like to help them get out of this. I'm going to be uncomfortable. Yes. And you don't even completely realize at the time. Yeah. But if you can, the most selfless thing to do for them is to give them what they need,

even if it doesn't give you what you need. Because I want to know that I'm being a good parent. I want to know that they're happy right now. Yeah. Yeah. And they're going to be happier when you get them out of trouble. Thanks, Dad. That was great. And you're like, oh, yay.

They're happy with me. I've just kicked that can down the street. Yeah. And then when they're moving back in with you or they're asking for a loan. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So leaders and vulnerability, how does that work? You know, it's one of the most important things like, so in the five dysfunction of the team, trust is at the bottom of the pyramid. I mean, you have to build trust on team and the leader has to go first and you cannot build trust with another person if you are not vulnerable. And vulnerability is a powerful thing,

but it has to be real. And false vulnerability is more dangerous than not having it. It's gross, man. It is. It's just like, humility is great. False humility is great. Anytime somebody says, hey, watch this, you're going to cry. I'm done with you. You know what I mean? And then it's performative. Yeah, exactly. Oh, so genuine vulnerability, which always is uncomfortable. Yes.

If you're being vulnerable as a leader and you're like, no, I'm very comfortable with this. It's not vulnerable. That's not vulnerable. Because vulnerable gets killed, right? That's the whole thing. It's belly up, yeah.

Exactly. In Latin, it's liable to attack. Gosh, what is that? I can't remember the root of the word vulnerability. But the point is every leader has to be vulnerable. But when they go too far and they're using it as therapy, that can be very dangerous too. And so it's one of those maturity things. It's like parenting though.

No leader is immune to this. There is no leader that never did that. Yeah. And there's no leader that's never probably been falsely vulnerable. We don't have, and I'll say politically, I think that may be the single missing element is a leader saying, I thought this and I was wrong and so here's what I'm going to do.

If somebody would do that, I think it would galvanize people in a way that you couldn't even plot on a chart and a graph. I do not under, maybe it's this, John. Maybe it's the kind of person

that wants that job does not have that skill or that capability because the kind of person that would be willing to do that would never do the things you need to do that wants that job does not have that skill or that capability because the kind of person that would be willing to do that would never do the things you need to do to get that job. But I don't know why people just don't say, because I mean, I've done it. Yeah, I have too. Hey, I whiffed on that.

Most people will say, a coach that comes off the field at the end of the game goes, I made a hugely bad call there and we lost because of me. People are like, that guy's awesome. I follow that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But somehow in politics... It's bizarre. You know what I mean? It's bizarre. I think they're being advised by people that...

I don't know. It's such an adversarial activity. I suppose it's like a lawyer though. I guess if you went to trial, not too many lawyers would go, hey, I said this thing yesterday. I think you should disregard it because I realized that wasn't fair. And I think when you have an adversarial relationship now, but the problem is that's why politics is not leadership. Politics is gamesmanship and true leadership to too few politicians are really leaders. And I've met a few that are, they usually don't get anywhere near the

top. Huh? Cause they're not playing. They usually don't get anywhere near the top. Huh. Because they're not playing. They're not playing. And if you're competing with somebody who's playing by a different set of rules and you tie one hand behind your back because you want to be that way, they're going to go, that's great. I'm just going to cut your arm off. You'll lose every time. Yeah.

So it's an unfortunate thing. I don't know if it's always been that way. I think media makes it worse. Absolutely. But I do wish we had leaders in leadership. Yeah, that'd be so nice. All right, what about leaders and mental health? Well, this is the thing

that's most interesting to me right now is that so many leaders are leading from their wounds and they don't even know that. They actually see their wounds as their strength. I mean, I did this for years. I was achieving at high standards and worked hard. And I thought, well, see, I'm a hardworking guy. And it's like, oh, no, you're terrified of failing.

And that doesn't mean you can't heal those wounds and still be a great leader. In fact, you'll be a much better leader. And so I think mental health of the leader is critical. How do you balance that humility with ambition? Cause it feels like a teeter totter. And what I see people is they'll go, they'll be making their money. They'll be doing a good job. They'll go to their spiritual retreat and they'll be like, Oh, I'm going to quit everything and go work at Whole Foods. And, or you have the other side that's just pounding the pavement over and over. And there's got to be a balance between, no, go work hard and do good things and help a lot of people.

And no, it's not going to – I don't know. What's the balance there? Well, it's so funny. I wrote an article 23 years ago. Yeah. And it was called The Trouble with Humility. And it's this teeter-totter. And it's like here's how I look at it.

And I don't know if this answers the question, but I just have to tell this story. I love it. And it's like, humility is, I think that I'm no more important than the people that I lead. Okay. Right.

That's really important to know. You're not. You're not a more important person. But my actions are more impactful than those of the people I lead. People are watching me. And that's truth. That's just truth.

Truth. That's right. And most people can't hold both of those things in mind at the same time. I worked with a guy who was a really humble leader and I'd say, Mark, you got to get out there and talk. He'd go, why do they care what I think? And then other people that are like,

hey, I got out there and I inspired people. And then it's like, I must be pretty important. I'm more important than them. So you have to break that in the middle and go, my actions actually are that stewardship. You know, that's really, but I'm not that important. That's a tough thing to do both of those. I used to tell my staff at the universities I worked at,

if I didn't come to work for two weeks as the senior student affairs officer, if I didn't come to work for two weeks, a couple of y'all would know if the person cleaning the bathrooms doesn't come for two weeks this place stops spinning period right let's be real clear about who's the most important in this building right now right now you can never lose that but as the leader you know what was really important that you were telling them that oh yeah yeah you know what was really important? That you were telling them that. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? So that was really important. So you have to do both of those things.

That's right, yes. And then you got to live it, right? I got to make sure that we are honoring the folks that are left in the margins at that workplace, right? Oh, my God. And I've got to go first. And whether I'm a parent or a dad, I did an internship with a psychologist and I was asking him a question about,

hey, how do I tell my son to respect women? And he said. Respect women? He's like, yeah, treat your wife right. It was like, you can tell him anything you want. He's just going to watch you. But what would be another way? Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, not that way. Yeah. It was a very simple. I was with my 15-year-old just the other day. We were in a long drive and I said, hey, you know I love mom, right? And he was like, oh yeah. I said, because sometimes we don't say the right, sometimes

I don't treat her the right way and she might be unhappy with me, but you know we're in love with each other and she's wonderful. And because I don't know, I never heard my dad say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I needed it. Yeah. And God bless him and my mom, but we have to model that

and it's I think parents we don't understand that our kids anchor everything into that sentiment are those two people stable and safe and if they are the kids will swing off and rappel off and do wild things

and if they aren't they will swing off and do wild things but they'll let go and you know if people are listening to this and they haven't done they will swing off and do wild things, but they'll let go. You know, they let go. And you know, if people are listening to this and they haven't done that very well in the past, you can just do it right now and trust God that it's going to be fine. Well, it's vulnerability,

which is, you know, I had a guest on a few weeks ago and we're talking about, is vulnerability or is it humility? It almost rests on a bedrock of, as you put in the book, it's just being trustworthy being honest

saying I've been telling you this and I was wrong this is the right way to do this or do you know how I treated mom for a few years there not good that was bad not good

and you're going to watch me do better right yeah because I know when people hear things like this it's easy to go oh I didn't do that well and it's like no start now what's that old adage

it's the best time to plant a tree, 10 years ago. Yeah, exactly. Or today. Second best is today. That's right, yeah. All right. Tell me about a time you've been wrong. Well, there are many.

Just one. Okay, I mean, so there's big ones and little ones. I want a big one for you. What's the most public wrong? If you could go back 10 years, 20 years, you'd go, I'd say this differently. Well, I'll tell you an anecdotal one because I didn't know this. I mean, I wrote a book, and I had the best title for the book.

And we did use that title. It was called The Three Signs of a Miserable Job because it was the right title. People would like that. The five dysfunctions of a team, they liked the fact that it was kind of like dysfunction, what's that about? So I said, there's got to be the three signs of a miserable job.

We published the book with that title. Nobody would take it to work. Oh, no. And talk about a boneheaded move. And so I was like, that was my call. Yeah. It sucked. So we retitled it,

the truth about employee engagement. Yeah. It sucked. Yeah. So we retitled it, Three Signs, I mean, The Truth About Employee Engagement. Oh. But that's an easy one. Yeah. Gosh. Hey, it's an easy one, but that's a big one. I just went through the titling process for my new book, and that was the thing. I wanted to call it something, and the head of publishing here, Preston, he's a saint.

He said, nobody will carry that book. Nobody will walk up to the counter and buy that book with that title on it no one's going to carry that book around with them because it's indicting on that and I was like oh man I didn't think about that that would be a good article yeah but not a good book so that's one gosh I make a lot I wish my wife were here

and my staff she actually wrote in I'm just kidding that was good that was good what's the time you changed your mind um so my wife has been telling me we needed to leave california for a long time and for the longest time it was like adversarial i was like no no no no no and then i finally realized you're right for our future we need to do that so i had to say your instincts on that and your, your, your passion around that is correct.

So we're in the process of doing that. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to be neighbors. I'm excited. Yeah. Oh man. We have a path.

I thought we have an, an aversion to changing our mind. And as a guy who spent the last 20 years in, in working with scientists in the Academy, that's, it's, it struck me and you and I may have, we may have talked about this offline, spent the last 20 years in working with scientists in the academy, it struck me, and you and I may have talked about this offline. Let's say with the COVID stuff, when King's College, I think it was King's College, whoever it was, laid out their first model and said,

we think this many millions and millions and millions of people are going to pass away. Every scientist who was in that world said, fantastic, game on. Because the whole thing is peer review and iron sharpens iron. I think you're wrong and this is why, and I think you're wrong. And then within a few weeks, it had been revised way down. And then in a few weeks, and the whole process has been about how can we be a little bit less wrong today? That's how scientists work. And I had just joined this team here in a media company, and I realized, oh, there's two places where you can't say, I changed my mind. Media and politics.

Well, science is now one of those things. Oh, they're getting there. Well, that's just become politicized. Did you hear what Aaron Rodgers said? If you can't disagree, that's not science. I mean, it's like, that's the science is the pursuit of truth through disagreement. That's it. That's the whole enterprise. They canceled him.

They said, we're deplatforming you on this. Oh, I didn't know that. That's just the definition. That's it. That's it. But the problem is, you're right. They politicized science. Yes. Because right now, we should be going like this. Okay. And I can't believe I'm going to say this out loud. Everybody, the people that developed said,

the vaccines do not prevent people from getting or spreading the disease now. Right. That's okay. That's, we're not. We learned. We learned. Yes. And so therefore, we need to take a different approach.

Yes. But so many people are like, no, no, no. But we already dug in on that. We have to continue. And it's like, no, you're losing credibility by the, by the, by the moment. It's the credibility that, that goes back to, yeah. But that is politics. When you lose credibility. Yeah. And it's, it's that just double down. Right. Right. We could talk about that all day. Truth, truth has to be, society breaks down when there is no longer concern for truth, but

that I get to spin it this way or might doesn't make right. Truth makes right. One of my favorite things, and I know this sounds so counterintuitive, my favorite things to do is to be found wrong. Oh, my gosh. Like, hey, because now I've got a better way to do it. Oh, I think one thing, I think I'm pretty good. When I argue with my staff at work,

the moment Cody or somebody says something that is a lot smarter, I like to go, oh, my gosh, that's so much better. Yeah. Or I'll go to work and they'll say, that's not what you said yesterday. And I'm like, you're probably right. But whatever I said yesterday, I was wrong. I was wrong. Yeah.

I'm right. That's liberating. It's, it's such a free way to walk through the world. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Okay. A favorite book.

Oh gosh, there's many. My favorite fiction book is by, is by Dean Kuntz, who's a great author. People don't know he's a very- He was like, back in the day, he was an alternative to Stephen King back in the day. Yes, and the difference is, King writes about really dark things.

Kuntz is a closet, it's all about hope and truth and faith. And you might not- I didn't know that. Oh yeah, and he has a book called Brother Odd, which is one of my favorite books. It's this Odd Thomas series. I'm going to put that on my list.

You know, you've got to say the Bible, but it's not a book. It's many books. And is there another book? I have this little book by a guy named Father Jacques Philippe. It's this little pink book. It's called The Building and Maintaining of Peace. Oh, wow.

And it's like, the guy is like, where do you get this? But anyway, so that's my favorite little book. Favorite band of all time? That would probably be Queen. Really? But not growing up. Yeah. When I was a girl,

we thought they were odd. Now I listen to their music, I go, who's ever done music? This is incredible. They are phenomenal. Phenomenal. The Eagles would be close. Now I listen to their music. I go, who's ever done music? This is incredible. They are phenomenal. Phenomenal. The Eagles would be close. Dave loves the Eagles, yeah. Okay, so before we wrap up here, let's walk me through this.

So you've got this magical new assessment. Yes. That's incredible. I took it, and dude, this thing, I hate getting nailed to the wall. It makes me uncomfortable. I do like being found out that I'm wrong. I don't like it when I don't realize I'm not a snowflake

and somebody I've never met says, no, this is kind of how you operate. And I'm like, oh man. Okay, so tell me about this genius, working genius assessment. Gosh, and now that it's so interesting because it tells me a lot. It makes sense given what you did before in colleges

and universities and who you are on this show. So the working genius is this. There are six required skills to get anything done in life. Okay. Any kind of project, running a company, running your family, organizing a family vacation, running a church, anything. Any kind of work involves six different skills.

Okay. And every person, two of those are what we call your working genius. They give you joy and energy. It's a gift from God. You're naturally good at it. You enjoy it. You can do it all day long and you're not going to burn out. Awesome. Two of them are on the other end of the scale that doing it for any length of time drains you of your joy and energy. It just, it's like, I was not meant to do this. And then two are kind of in the middle. You're pretty good at it, but it doesn't feed you, but you can get by. Okay. So it's called, you're working genius. You're working frustration. And then in the middle of your working competency. Does this work at home too? Oh, absolutely. Okay. In your marriage, my wife and I had a huge breakthrough

because we realized, but we had similar deficiencies. So both of us were constantly looking at each other going, why don't you do that? Why don't you do that? How come you haven't gotten on that yet? We're like, we both hate that. We didn't have language for it. Gotcha. So this came out about a year ago,

and almost a quarter of a million people have taken this. Yeah, dude, that's what I'm saying. It's all over the place. The stories we're hearing from people. One guy called, he said, I thought my wife hated me. You would love this. And we said, what do you mean? He laughed.

He goes, really, I thought she was pretty down on me because I had the genius of invention. That's one of the six geniuses, which means I love to come up with new ideas. I'm a fountain of new ideas at home and everywhere. She has the genius of discernment, which is evaluating ideas and giving people feedback. Well, that wouldn't work or this would work better.

Maybe you should tweak it like that. He thought she was just against all of his ideas. She was like raining on his parade every day. And they literally did this on their anniversary. And she said, honey, my gift is discernment. I'm loving you when I do that. I don't want you to feel like I'm against you. I'm for you.

And they said it changed their marriage, which is crazy. So she was trying to love him in the way that she knows how, right? And he, and truthfully, he probably wanted her to go, that's a great idea, honey. Let's do it. And she was like, no, no,

here's what's not going to work about that. So anyway, that's just one little example. I love it. I love it. Okay. So who am I? You're so there's, you have the first genius.

Your first genius is the one that's at 50,000 feet, which is the genius of wonder. Okay. Which means you can ponder things and contemplate things and sit with a big ideas, you know, that's comfortable for you. Yeah. And that's like the, the highest 50,000 foot head in the clouds level. You're like, what is this? That's where all this comes from. Now what's interesting is your second genius is enablement. Enablement is the ability to come alongside someone and support them in what they need. Right? That's the old professor in me, huh?

Well, yeah. And you also were working with these teams that you supported these kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you could see their needs and go, I know what you need. Yeah. So you are at the highest level,

a wanderer. This is a relatively rare type. Not completely, but relatively rare. You're the idealistic supporter. Like you have these ideals, and then you're there to support and help people. I told you, Kelly. I'm just kidding.

Okay. Then your working competencies are invention and discernment. These are my strengths. So you're okay with like, if you have to come up with new ideas, you do that. Yeah. And discerning other people's ideas, you're good at that too. But if you didn't get to wonder, and if you didn't actually get to help people and see people benefiting from your stuff, you'd wither. Actually. And it's, it's amazing. This thing pulls this out. Uh, it's amazing this thing pulls this out. When the big ideas come in and James says, okay, we've got to turn this into a segment, and I'm like,

uh, let's just sit around and talk about it. We have to make a show, so how are we going to talk about this? We need talking points, so we need to put it in the prompt, and it's like, uh, how about we don't do that? Exactly. You're like, hey, the fun part is done. Yeah, we're done. Or let's keep doing the fun part. Then your two working frustrations are G and T. Right, exactly. You're like, hey, the fun part is done. Yeah, we're done. Or let's keep doing the fun part.

Yes. Then your two working frustrations are G and T. This is interesting. Making people do things that they don't want to do is not fun. I hate that.

And then, then like the dogged last details of pushing things across the finish line. It's like, most of the good stuff is,

we have to keep going until it's finished and I have to pursue that. That's not your thing either. Patrick, the last month, you finished a bunch of books. stuff, we have to keep going until it's finished, and I have to pursue that. That's not your thing either. Patrick, the last month, you finished a bunch of books. Oh, other people have to push me. You know those weeks when they're like, hey, I need this list done, and when you check this citation, the font, when you look at it.

Dude. Yeah, yeah, it crushes us. And here's the deal. There are people in life, you could flip this upside down. I know a woman who's great at the things you don't. She's like, we're gonna finish and I'm gonna make you do it. And it brings her joy, huh?

Joy and energy. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's Kelly. And then, and there are people. So, and what's great about this is, at the highest level, this is about that we don't judge other people

or feel guilty about ourselves. We had a pastor call in and say he had been feeling guilty about being a pastor. He thought he was bad because he wasn't good at sermons, at coming up with sermons. And he knew so many pastors that could go out and go for a walk and come up with a great sermon. He did this. He said, I was a wonder. I had no wonder or invention in me. Oh, wow. But what he was, was a great like counselor. He loved to talk one-on-one with people. And that's another genius of a pastor.

But he wasn't the big picture idea guy. And he goes, oh, I don't have to feel guilty about this anymore. I'm going to borrow people and they're going to help me with that. Yes. So that was a huge relief. Because we go through life going, how come I'm not good at the stuff I'm not good at? Because you're not, because God didn't give you that gift. So how do you, let's take that pastor for example.

He may decide I might be better in a different role here. And it might mean, cause the head pastor makes more money and the head pastor's on, but it might be for the sake of my sanity and my biology and my marriage and my kids. I didn't take this role. How do you teach somebody to say, I know you've been working to be a president.

You're going to be the greatest number two ever. Like, how do you teach somebody that? That's so interesting. I honestly believe, so this assessment takes 10 minutes to fill out. That's what I'm so enamored by. It's incredible. You get the results back and people do it for themselves. The low-hanging fruit of this, people look at their things and go,

oh, crap, I shouldn't be doing that. It's so convicting. Now, but the good news is this. There's lots of different ways to skin a cat, and there's different ways to run a company. So I'm an ID. I like to come up with new ideas and discern the ideas. I can galvanize, but I don't like to do it very much.

I'm not bad at it. I still run my company. Yeah. But I know how to tap into somebody else's G. So you can actually be all different kinds of CEOs, but you can't do all the activities. So I've had two, the reason I had my career in higher ed

is I had two different bosses, the first one and then the third one. They hired me and said, we are the vice presidents. We run this thing. We don't do public facing things. We are behind the scenes. You will be-

Oh, you were perfect for this. Right? And we will make sure the budgets are good, that the HR stuff is done, all our people are taken care of and loved. But I need somebody out there to, and one boss I had asked me to go through and I would text, there's a group of students here. I need you to walk through. And they would walk out and smile and that just drained them. But they knew it was

part of, does that make sense? Those are such incredible self-aware leaders. Right. Because they were filling the gaps. What a gift. Yeah. And so there's not really jobs where you'd go, oh yeah, I have to leave. Yeah. We had a woman write to us after doing this and she had her own staffing business and she was ready to sell it. She was so burnt out and frustrated. She took this assessment and she goes, oh my gosh, I'm spending all of my time

doing the things I hate. I can actually run this place and do the things I love and enable the people around me to do the things they love. She reorganized, stayed in the business. It's doing better. She's loving what she's doing. So it's just about that awareness and the humility to say, I don't have to be everything.

Here's, can I tell you the magic part of this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've spent the last, this has been especially convicting, the last couple of years just working on the show. I spent so long working with academics, working with people who do wonder for a living, who are always thinking about deep things

and trying to solve deep problems. And then you branch off of that into, I guess the nerd term now is the biohackers. These folks who have resources and they've got this drive and they want to take 98% and push it up to the top 1%. And they spend a jillion dollars to do it

and they'll go get all this other help and support and a coach for this and a coach for this. And coming here has made me realize there's hundreds of millions of people in this country just trying to get through the day. Yeah. And they are absolutely left behind. And then somebody like you comes up with this thing

that takes 10 minutes, it's incredibly inexpensive. And then you gave these, you that takes 10 minutes, it's incredibly inexpensive. And then you gave these, you're such a, man, it's such a great gift. You gave all the listeners here a discount on this thing. It's, this is a kind of thing that can change millions of people's lives. We priced it at $25.

That's what I'm saying. And there's a discount for, to make it 18, which put Ramsey in the code. But it's, we don't want anybody not to know who they are. That's what I mean. Yeah. And if you're like,

there's kids getting out of college like I was. But my job when I got out of college that said was the best job in America, I would have had to be an ET to do that job well.

They're my weaknesses. Yeah. And if I'd known that, I'd have gone, I don't care if people think this is the best job in America, I'm going to suck at it. Yeah. Or imagine somebody taking this before they go to college. Oh. And like, I'd have gone, I don't care if people think this is the best job in America. I'm going to suck at it.

Yeah. Or imagine somebody taking this before they go to college. Oh. And like, I want to major in this. And maybe they decide not to go to college because the things they want to do, they can already do. That's exactly right. Or a couple that is about to throw in the towel or somebody's about to respond to that text. Don't respond to it.

Get online and take this thing and sit down with your spouse. This gives you all something to talk about when you all get together once a month and just say how, checking in with each other, right? When I look at a person, I really help, it's so helpful to know what they love doing. And I have a son who's 15. I know what his working genius is. I'm not going to parent him the way I parented my other kids, but I didn't know that until last year. And I was like, oh my gosh, he's

a wonderer inventor. Why do I think he's going to go and drill on algebra every day? If he gets a B in algebra, that's fine. You know? Man, your kids won the lottery. That's awesome. So hey, go to workinggenius.com, enter promo code DELONY, D-E-L-O-N-Y,

25% off. It's not 18 bucks. 18 bucks to figure out who you are. It's incredible. Patrick, thank you. It's great to be here. I'm so glad you're moving here. Then we can for real be best friends. You don't have to be my best friend, but I'm yours. And dude, you're just a wealth of knowledge. You're so generous. And so I'm grateful for you. It's always, it's always so much fun. It's awesome.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right. October is the season for wearing costumes and masks. And if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going as Brad Pitt in Fight Club era because, I mean, we pretty much have the same upper body, but whatever. All right, look, it's costume season. And let's be honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind costumes and masks more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social setting. We do this around our families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can learn to be honest with yourself, and you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest,

authentic, direct life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, and you can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey and you get matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney.

All right, as we wrap up, we always end this show with your favorite song ever. All right. And you came prepared with some lyrics. I don't even know what they are. Well, they told me Matt Marr is a Christian singer who lives in Nashville now. Okay, I've never heard the name.

Well, you know his songs. Okay. And everybody knows his songs. But he has a song called Hold Us Together and it's a great song it's one of those great songs very cool I'll check it out so as we wrap up the music will fade up

read the lyrics here it don't have a job won't pay your bills it won't buy you a home in Beverly Hills it won't fix your life in five easy steps ain't the law of the land or the government but it's all you need Wow. That's what it is. I'll repeat that.

Love will hold us together. I love it, my man. Hey, Patrick, thank you so much, man. You made my whole year. Thank you so much. Thanks, man. Take care. We'll see you soon on the Dr. John Delaney Show.