The Dr. John Delony Show - Postpartum Depression, Family Boundaries, & Fear of Public Speaking

Episode Date: March 26, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU!   Show Notes for this Episode   I'm about to have my second child and wondering how can I better handle the postpartum depression and sleep deprivation this time around?  My 19-year-old daughter is pregnant with her second child. We have custody of her first child. How much do we support her this time around? Book recommendations for hard conversations Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What Matters Most - Douglas Stone Crucial Conversations Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High - Kerry Patterson I’ve been offered a leadership program at work that will require public speaking. I am terrified. What can I do? Lyrics of the Day: "Kingdom Come" - Coldplay   tags: depression, parenting, sleep, family, boundaries, disagreement/conflict, fear, anxiety, workplace/career   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we talk teen pregnancy, we talk postpartum depression, and we talk to a woman who just got an awesome job promotion, but she's terrified of the public speaking that comes with it. Stay tuned. Hey, what's up, good folks? I'm John, and this is the Dr. John Deloney Show. Pull up a seat at the bar and grab something to eat. Everybody's welcome.

In a world gone mad where we define ourselves by who we hate, this show is for those who are sick of fighting and yelling and hating and proving who just want to show up and do the next right thing. Who just want to start hanging out with the next right thing, who just want to start hanging out with people again and not yelling at everybody again. So this show is about your mental health, about your relationships, about everything, right? Family, parenting, relational IQ questions, schooling, anything you can come up with,

addiction. We cover it all here. Give me a call at 1-844-693-3291. That's 1-844-693-3291. Or go to johndeloney.com slash show. Fill out the form. It could go to Kelly. She's probably not going to read it, but she might. Just kidding. She reads them all. And man, her psychosis, her mental health is just, it's on a free fall tom petty wrote about it many many moons ago hey and while we have the uh the the background camera up you can see james is now texting me saying hey bro let's wear the same clothes he said today was a blue plaid checker

day and i said yes sir and i didn't even wear a hat today you didn't give me crap about it last week you said hey um curl your hair like mine, and I tried. I couldn't make it work. I got stuck in the flat iron, but whatever. All right, so let's go straight to the phones today. Let's go to Brianna in Lakeland, Florida. Brianna, what's going on? How can I help?

Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call. Thank you for calling. Yeah, so I guess the gist of it, I am where my husband and I are expecting our second kid in April. So if I sound a little winded, it's because I'm very pregnant. Or I just went running. Good. Yeah.

So April, that's just a minute. That's coming. By the time this show comes out, your little one may be here, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So we're very excited. My husband works a job that requires him to deploy two months at a time, and then he's home for two months. And during our first son, because of the COVID lockdowns, he actually ended up being gone for five months when our young, our first son was about three months old. So, uh, all that to say, I really struggled during that time with, um, postpartum depression and, uh, just the sleep deprivation. And I know you really talk about how important sleep is, but I was just kind of wondering, how do we handle communicating from a distance and working through that lack of sleep?

Because, you know, you can only get so much with the newborn. For real, yeah. I don't know if you had any advice with dealing with the emotions that just come from that. So walk us through what it was like. For those people who experience postpartum depression, right, they have a feeling, a sense. I've walked into some homes and sat with folks, and it is like very few things I've ever seen. But for those who think they know what it is, that it's just they're – people are just a little bit bummed or a little bit more weepy. Walk the average listener who just, you know, mowing their yard right now or driving to work who really doesn't have insight, walk them through what that was like. Um, yeah. So, so for me, especially not having my husband around, I'm just kind of being, being the baby and we had

my parents and some other help, but it was... Which sometimes is good, and sometimes that makes it... Right? You're performing, too, and you haven't showered or slept in four weeks, and you're still trying to do the song and dance for mom and dad. Go ahead. Oh, yeah. But for me, it was just a lot of pressure, and it got to the point where I felt like,

not only did I feel like I wasn't doing a good job, but it felt like I just didn't even like my child sometimes, which I'm sure, you know, we all go through those phases. But it just, you know, even to my husband, I'd say like, wow, why did we do this? Were we ready for this? It just was like drowning, even to my husband, I'd say like, wow, why did we do this? Were we ready for this? It just was like drowning. It was overwhelming.

And it was especially bad. Like, I'm just, I like my sleep as most people do. So getting up every two hours or, you know, being up till one because you just won't fall asleep for any reason. Just got to the point where I was like I I don't even I don't even like you and then you feel guilty then you get the guilt loop and then your head starts spinning I'm the worst mom ever and then that turns into I just want to hug him and then he won't stop screaming and then now we're back on that that loop right when did you know I need to go reach out to somebody. Um, I got, so like I said, it was all kind of during the COVID lockdown. My husband got stuck deployed for five months when it was only supposed to be two.

Um, and that was a lot tougher. I, uh, and it, it got to the point where one day I was driving back from the grocery store. Um, and the baby was just unbelievably upset and wouldn't stop crying. And I just instantaneously like thought flashed through my head of, I could just drive this car right off the road. And it would just in and out like that. I didn't dwell on it. And you know, you say a lot about like, we can control our thoughts. But just even the fact that that crossed my mind, I was like, oh, that's not good. That's not a good one.

I'm going to file that one into the probably not. Right. Yes. Yeah. Good for you. Hey, listen, that's so brave because that's a scary thought that pops in a lot of folks' heads. Right. And then most people will bury that one.

So good for you. You knew, ah, that one probably crossed even my own lines, right? Yeah. Ah, I'm so proud of you. Okay. So when was this your youngest or your only to this point? When were they born? When was he born?

He was born in June of 2019. Okay. they born when was he born uh he was born in june of 2019 okay and so was about how long about a a year or i guess six seven months when your husband took off that sounded awful like your husband took off when your husband was deployed right for the longest stretch of deployment he he's done a couple trips now since then but um for the the and the hardest, he was probably in that six to 12 month range. And do you have anybody, like, so let's take family aside. Some family is real, real helpful.

Some family is real, real not helpful. And so let's take your family out. Do you have a group, one or two or three women in your life who've already had kids that you can text and say, is this normal? Or were you on your own? I have some friends, but they're mostly like we had moved to Florida to be near my parents. And most of our friends with kids were on California. And with lockdowns, not being able to go to a church or meet any new women. Um, I, I had some, I would say I probably could have reached out to,

but I think a lot of it was just me being too afraid to, to, I guess, trust that with anyone other than my husband. Yes. And that was a lot of pressure on him because he couldn't do anything. He was out of the country and he felt helpless. Which then you feel like I need to protect him from this. And so then it just gets quieter and quieter and quieter, right? Yeah. And so as you've spoken it out, I hope you've heard the arc here, right? So, postpartum is such a unique experience, and there are people who are, this is all they do, is work with postpartum depression. And there are some extraordinary OBGYNs who have really dug into not only women's health, but also postpartum psychiatric help. And I've got several friends, several folks I've worked with who have talked to me about how awful it is if someone doesn't know what they're doing or how incredible it is when someone sits down and just listens to

you, right? And so I want to say upfront, I'm not a postpartum expert. And more importantly, I've never experienced this. And so me trying to tell you who's experienced it what you should do just sounds kind of ridiculous, right? But I'm going to give it a shot, okay? So I want everyone listening to know I know the last thing on earth is some dude giving somebody else postpartum advice, right? But as I listen to you tell this narrative, here's a couple of things I picked out. Number one, your bedrock got stuck somewhere else. This guy that you lean on, right, was stuck somewhere else at a time when they just closed the board. It was scary for everybody, right? And there's no, there's no chance he's

coming home. Cause my guess is he was gone for two months. And then he said, Hey baby, I'm probably gonna be gone for a couple of weeks, which turned into a month, which is like, Hey, I think they're going to let us go. Hold on. No, it's going to be right. So that thing kept moving and moving. Right. And that gets scarier and scarier, especially as baby gets louder and louder and you get more isolated, more more alone and then you had just moved and man the thing i beyond sleep is this this this disease that we've got and the disease is loneliness right and you found yourself with nobody you couldn't reach out to anybody and you're too good of a friend to wake people up on California time. And it got more lonely.

And your internal alarms ring louder and louder and louder. And then you talked about that loop. And the most common phrase I hear from women who struggle from postpartum is, I can't believe my kid got stuck with me as their mom, right? In that devastating feeling that somehow you're going to ruin this kid. You don't like them. You don't want them. And of course you love them, but in those at 2 a.m., I don't like anybody at 2 a.m., right? And so it all starts to loop on itself. So here's my number one thing I would tell you is to partner with your doctor in this journey and let them know, hopefully you've already done that. Have you already done that?

Let them know, hey, last time this was tough. I haven't brought it up. Okay. I want you – so shame and this depression, it eats one thing for a meal, and that is secrets, okay? And I want you to know I don't care what thoughts went in your head, and I've heard some really aggressive, I've heard some violent thoughts, I've heard some really tough stuff. You're not nuts, okay? I want you to be open with your doctor especially.

They're not going to take your kid away. I want you to be open with obviously your husband, but I want you to rally a team. Okay. So that can look like your parents, his parents, that can look like any new friends that can look like friends from California, but I want you to have a team and you are the CEO. You're the quarterback. You are the military commander. And I want you to be really vocal and direct about what you need okay here's what that's going to look like i'm gonna i want to tap you two or you three you

three friends from california that you were really close to i want you to let them know i need you guys during the season i'm gonna text you at crazy hours i'm gonna text you crazy things i'm gonna call you weeping like mad and i'm trusting you to help me get from here to there. Okay? So I want you to, and I want, they're going to feel so honored that you are bringing them into this and tell them they are your A team, right? And then if there is a college kid, if there is a church friend, even if it's your parents or your in-laws, let them know I'm going to call at two o'clock in the morning and I want y'all to show up. If it's a college game, I'm going to pay you, right? Or maybe there's some

nights of the week you bring them over to spend the night with you and let them know if the baby wakes up, there's where the bottles are. I'm going to pay you 50 bucks for being here overnight or whatever that is. But I got to get some sleep and I want you to protect that. But more importantly, I want you to practice leaning on other people. I also think that this go around is going to be different because you know, some of the body things, some of the thought things, and you will have some sort of understanding of, Oh, we're headed in a rough direction. Right. And then, you know, these things right about healthy food and sleep and outside walking, exercising those things.

And that's why I want you to be upfront about calling people. And so when your mother-in-law comes over, she's going to know. We're not talking or hanging out. We are not friends. I am going for a walk, and then I'm taking a three-hour nap, right? But if you are upfront, that upfrontness, if you will, it's not even a word, can be a real gift to people around you who want to help, but they don't know what to do. So they come over and they feel like they have to entertain you. And then they talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Right. And then here's the last final thing. Do not become hyper aware or manic about looking for all of any of these low moments or any

thoughts or anything like that. Does that make sense? Because what you're going to do when you have this baby, you're going to be like, okay, when's the next bad thought coming? When's it coming? When's it coming? And you can almost will it to existence, right? Or tonight's going to be the night I don't sleep, and then, man, for sure you're not going to sleep now. So deal with it when they come, but don't put it out into the universe.

Just be ready to love this knucklehead. Is it a boy or girl? It's a boy. Okay. So you're going to have two boys? Yep. Oh, that's so fun. All right.

So just be ready to love this knucklehead with all of your heart. Know that your other baby is going to be bananas too. It's all going to be a mayhem and a mess. Yeah. And you've got to have a team next to you. And I started this with make sure your doctor knows I'm going to end this with, don't hide things from your doctor. Okay. Let them know, hey, I had this thought. I had that thought. I had these dark feelings. I thought about just taking a quick, sharp left turn into

oncoming traffic. I'm so tired. I just want this to stop. And they will look at you and they will say, I hear you, you're okay. And then they will give you some help moving forward, right? They're not going to steal your baby from you. They're not going to take from, they hear this stuff with some regularity because postpartum is a hard, hard demon. Okay. So if somebody else reaches out to you and they say, Hey, I'm about to have a baby. Will you be on my A-team? I want you to say yes. Yes. What a gift that can be to other folks. My wife had that. It was a lifeline, an absolute lifeline, especially when one of them said at one point, one of the pregnancies, Hey, you probably should go talk to somebody, right? This is getting heavy.

And it was somebody that my wife trusted and it was good. So, Hey, listen, Brianna, you probably should go talk to somebody. This is getting heavy, and it was somebody that my wife trusted, and it was good. So, hey, listen, Brianna. You are awesome. You're a great, great mom. You are not bananas. I don't say you're normal, but you're normal. You love your kid. You're going to love the second one, and it's going to be messy and hard.

So what can you do right now? You can move all these hard decisions up front before they get bananas. Get an A team. Get a backup team. Get a slate of babysitters if you can. If you can. You're a pregnant mom. You can do whatever you want, right?

Or your husband's going to be wandering around the house wondering what he can do to help. Put him on babysitter duty. And it may just be having somebody come over and spend the night so you can sleep the entire night, right? Protect that sleep, protect your health, protect your getting outside, right? Protect your knowledge and don't be afraid to reach out. Thank you so, so much for that call, Brianna. If somebody's listening to this or watching this on the internet and you've got some tips for folks who experienced postpartum. You've experienced it, and you were able to come up with some good strategies. You were a coach to it.

Leave those comments in the comment section here. Don't leave anything stupid and mean. Leave positive things that are going to help people when they're struggling with postpartum. People are going to Google, I'm struggling with postpartum. How do I help? They're going to come to this video, so leave some great things down below. Don't leave any nonsense or idiocracy.

And Brianna, after your baby's born, write in, let us know. Everything's healthy, everybody's doing great, and we'll be rooting for you. All right, let's go to Frank in Ottawa, Canada. What's up, my Frank? How are we doing? Hi there, Dr. John. I'm well. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. So what's going on, man?

Well, thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate your advice and wisdom. So I'm hoping you can shed some light for me and my wife on this situation. So what's happening is our 19-year-old daughter is pregnant with her second child. My wife and I have legal custody or guardianship of her first child, who's now three. This pregnancy was also unplanned, and so we are struggling to find ways to support her and to guide her because she's, you know, not really been taking advice and so on. So that's where we're at. So when you talk about, number one, I'm glad you're there for that little baby.

That's awesome. I know that wasn't how y'all drew that up. And y'all had a whole different plan for this season of life. And it's awesome that y'all stepped up to take care of that grandbaby. When you say help and support, what do you mean? What are you thinking of when you, wait, what picture do you have on how I can support my daughter when she won't listen to us?

Right. So good question. So the, so with the first baby, she was living at home at the time. And when the baby was about, I don't know, six, eight months old, um, she, she confided in us that she was having a really hard time, um, you know, being a mom, which is totally understandable. It's hard being a mom for anyone as per your first caller, you know, your previous caller and, um, let alone, you know, a 16 yearold single mom at the time. So anyway, with the guidance of our family therapist at the time, we came up with a family plan whereby we would take care of the baby

and our daughter would have a chance to go back to school and get back on her feet and all that stuff. So that was the support we provided at that time. Now, since then... Yeah, how did you end up with custody? That means the plan didn't work like y'all thought it was going to, huh? Right. So, exactly.

So what happened was she ended up moving out of the house, got into drugs and so on. And so we actually went to court. She moved out of the house without the baby, I should say. She left the baby at home with us. So we went to court and got a court order for custody to be granted to us. So now she is still not at home. Is there any contingency on that or that baby's yours? It's a temporary order for the next, I want to say three or four years.

Okay. Does she have to work any sort of services to regain custody, or does it expire? What the court order says is that they will revisit the decision at the expiry of this first order. So she's got a chance to get her crap together, and if she doesn't, then they'll revisit it, and then they'll stamp it for you. Okay, gotcha all right thanks so now there's another one on the way correct with uh with a different young man who is um i would say equally as poor performing as the first one poor you're the most you're the most uh articulate father i would have said the dude sucks but but good for you. You're a better person than me.

I've said all the words off air. You don't want your grand kid to hear about his dad. You're a good man. And I know that. I don't want to trash the biological father of our granddaughter in front of her. I know better than to do that, but

this young man is not much better, to be honest. this this young man is is is not much better to be honest so does she want to keep this baby yeah so she's she's definitely uh keeping the baby she's due in august um i think the due date is august 8th or something like that but she's not living at home and what makes this situation kind of funny or not funny, but messy, messy. Yeah. Is that she was living with him at his parents' house. But he had some sort of a nervous breakdown a couple of weeks ago. He was hospitalized for a few days and then prescribed antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds, at which time his mother kicked our

daughter out of the house. So she's now living in a shelter and refuses to, you know, take any of the help that us as family are trying to offer her. Why would she rather be pregnant and live in a shelter than come back and live at home? Yeah, that's a great question. And, you know, we think she's never been diagnosed, but we think she has oppositional defiance disorder. Yeah, but hold on. I don't care about any disorders.

Why won't she? Why won't she? Why won't she love you? We don't allow her enough freedom because she wants the freedom to come and go as she chooses and pleases to do. Like I said, she was involved in doing drugs and drinking and stuff and all that stuff. And every time we try to impose a punishment or something, it was as though we were cramping her style and so on. Well, you were rightfully so. So, is she using drugs now? No, she's clean now.

She's, you know, when she was telling my wife, her mom, that she was pregnant, you know, she was telling her that she quit smoking and she quit smoking weed and all the other stuff she was doing. that she's quit smoking and she'd quit smoking weed and, and all the other stuff she was doing. So,

so she is living in a shelter right now. When's the baby? Correct. August, uh, August 8th, I believe. Okay.

So what do you, what do you want to do? Well, you know, she's 19 now, you know, so there's very little we can do. Now, what do you want to do? If you could snap your fingers, what would you have happen? I would have her move back in either with us that we're lending her, at least until this baby comes and until she can find a job and get some money in the bank and develop some sort of a foundation to live on her own.

I don't have much faith that her boyfriend is going to be able to take care of them. He probably won't, but when's the last time you and her just got together and went and had lunch somewhere or went and ate too much pancakes? Yeah, it's been a while. Would she do that? If you called her up tomorrow and said, hey, let's go to breakfast tomorrow, I'm paying, would you come? I think so. She might, yeah. So do me this favor.

Don't do me a favor. My life won't change. Do yourself this favor. Okay. Spend a couple of days really focusing on what you are willing to offer and what your boundaries look like and what you would love to see happen and what is within your power to make happen. And then write it down. Show it to your wife. Y'all two do this together. Make sure everybody's on the same page. And then I want you in a low-key way, no drama, no fanfare, no this is my last stand. I want you to invite your daughter to breakfast.

And I want you just to check in on her, see how she's doing, how's her pregnancy going. And if your wife's the right person for this, that's great too. She can have that conversation. How's your body feeling? I remember this and that. I remember when my wife experienced X, Y, and Z, like a human interaction. And then let her know, I want you to know we'd love to have you come home. And we've had our challenges in the past. You're 19.

You're a grown-up now. We care about you and your health and this baby's health this is now going to be the brother or sister of the other child and we want you to know that you're welcome home that won't be the conversation for fights it won't be the conversation

for and if in my house you're not going to be that's not that this isn't that conversation this conversation is you being the dad, you being the grown-up, saying, I miss my baby. And I want you to be safe and okay over the next six months. And if boyfriend gets well, gets his crap together, gets on the right road and a good trajectory, awesome. But I want you to know that we came after you because you're our daughter. You're still my baby girl. I know you're 19 and you're about to be a mother of two,

but I want you to know you can come home. The time for there's no drugs in my house, the time for you have a curfew, all those conversations, those boundary conversations, they have to happen. They don't have to happen now. And what you want to do is reestablish trust and connection with your baby girl. Okay? Will that work?

Am I a Pollyanna? Probably. But here's what I want. There's going to – either she's going to say – she's going to drop her shoulders and say, thank you so much, or I'll think about it. Regardless of what happens, she's either going to come home or she's going to wait three or four or five more months. She's going to be real stubborn about it. Regardless of what happens, she's either going to come home or she's going to wait three or four or five more months. She's going to be real stubborn about this. She's going to find somebody else to move in with. She's going to find some situation. And here's what I want her to have. I want her to have experiences, letters, first person breakfast accounts, whatever,

that my dad kept coming for me. He kept coming for me, and he kept coming for me. Because there's going to come a moment when she's going to hit rock bottom. There's going to come a moment when she needs a warm bed, and she's going to remember that guy loved me. Or she's going to have this baby, and six months in, she's going to be so exhausted, so tired, so fill in the blank, and she's going to remember, okay, that guy loved me. Because you're dealing with a child, right? She's a kid. She's 19, right? And so give her a legacy of that. And if she says,

no, say, cool, let's go to breakfast again. Let's do breakfast every Saturday. Or me and mom are going to alternate every Saturday until this baby's born. Just because we like you. You're our daughter. And all you're trying to do is not win, not establish boundaries, not make sure, fill in the blank. You're just trying to reestablish trust with your daughter. She says no, she says no. Say, great, I'm going to try again next week. And this is going to be real hard for you and your wife because there's probably going to be rejection.

There's probably going to be frustration. You're going to see she's going to gain too much weight. She's going to lose a bunch of weight. She's not going to be healthy. She's not going to look like she showered. It's going to gain too much weight. She's going to lose a bunch of weight. She's not going to be healthy. She's not going to look like she showered. It's going to be really hard. And y'all have to be the super adults here and keep going back and going back

and leaning in and leaning in. Or the alternative is you can cut her off. Say, best of luck to you. I wish you well. Oh, we don't want to do that. That's right. And I was going to tell you, brother, I couldn't do that to my daughter, right?

Right. Now I'm going to have my boundaries and I don't want to do that. That's right. And I was going to tell you, brother, I couldn't do that to my daughter, right? Right. Now, I'm going to have my boundaries, and I don't want you to hear me say, man, she just gets a rough shot over you guys. No. This is a prodigal son moment. This is like, man, come home. Come home, right? And I also know that when a teenager gets something in their head that is not accurate, but that it gives them an opportunity to pit themselves against their family, man, I'm going to cut through all that nonsense, right?

I'm going to cut through all that crap. I'm not going to be a part of that. This is the moment you get to come home, right? When I say that, how does that sound, Frank? Yeah, I think it sounds fine. We've definitely expressed that the porch light's on and the door's open, but not in such an intentional manner like what you just described. So I think we can try to continue expressing that in the way that you just described. Do you all laugh together? When's the last that you just described. Do you guys, do y'all laugh together? When's the last time y'all laughed together? Well, she was over when she actually told us, like three weeks ago, she was over to

visit with her daughter and visit with the family. And, you know, we had a movie night and popcorn and had a good time then. And that's actually when she felt comfortable enough to tell us what was going on. So, yeah. So she's a 19 year old mother of two. She's an adult in the eyes of the law and she's a kid. Right. And if this, this may not work in every family. I've got a family with a derangeance of humor, but if this is me, you know what my first line would be? Well, we gave you a bunch of curfews and rules. That didn't work, so come on. There's an entryway to this to be funny.

There's an entryway to this to be really loving. Here's another beautiful thing. If you write her a letter so she can read it when she leaves, a great thing 18-, 19-, and 20-year-olds are good at doing is feeling really good in the moment. They get uncomfortable later on in the day, in the week with those feelings. Like, wait a minute, I'm supposed to hate my parents because they're ruining my life. And I felt a sense of love for my dad.

I got to come up with some fill in the blank, right? If you write her a letter, she can go back to it and go back to it and go back to it. So when she leaves, the letter will have nothing about rules. Those will come. The letter will have nothing about, you know, you should have known better. None of that. The letter will just simply be, you are my baby girl. And I would love it if you came home. I want you to always know that we love you. Your mom and I love you. We drive you crazy and you drive us crazy. Tag, we're both hit, right? But you and this new little grandbaby are going to have a place to go.

Be hyper-intentional. Be with, not at. This is a mother of two, man, right? This is a mother of two. Be with, not at. And I hope, man, I'm so hopeful that you can come in humbly. If there's things you need to apologize for, if you raise your voice, yell, acted like an idiot, this is that moment for you to go first, be humble, and just say, hey, because the goal here is reconnection. The goal here isn't to lecture, right? The goal here is safe baby and grandbaby.

The goal here is not to win an argument and to establish those boundaries. Those will come. This is the moment for connection. Dude, I love your heart, Frank. Let us know how that conversation goes. Let me know. Dude, I'm going to be thinking about this one. Let me know how that conversation goes with you and your daughter, how that breakfast goes. And man, if she comes back, moves back in with you guys, we'll cheer you on. And if she doesn't, we'll cheer you on anyway, man. Thank you so

much for that call. All right. So I want to go to an email real quick. This is an email that we get a bunch of. And so Kelly pulled just a representative one. Here we go. It says, what do you do? What do you book you recommend to educate on how to have hard conversations? I've heard you and Dave Ramsey mention it often. I know I struggle with this, but I can't seem to force myself to fix it.

And not only for myself, but my spouse and children. When I manage to bring up the hard topic, it is hard for the other person too. And the conversation ends up going nowhere. I've been there. All right, so here's two classic books. I'm gonna pull them up here. And James will link to these in the show notes.

The book one is Crucial Conversations, Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High by Patterson, Greeney, and et cetera. And the other one is Difficult Conversations by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Sheila Heen. These are good books, right? Here's a couple of thoughts. I've never, these are good.

I've always got good at practicing hard conversations by being really intentional, right? So here's a couple of thoughts on hard conversations. Number one, hard conversations are stories. They aren't battles. They aren't blamed. They're about relational movement and problem solving, right? It's why I hate some modern media and even some approaches to our legal system we are obsessed with blame whose fault who did this what happens when this is your approach you never get around

to solving the problem because everyone's obsessed with blaming others and then when I get blamed I gotta defend myself right so generally people are in two camps they want to win engagements right they want to win a hard conversation or they get crushed in a hard conversation. They're doormats, right? So here's what I want you to do. I want you to write down a list of the hard conversations you need to have, right? Write them down, right? And who you need to have them with.

And they're going to rank, they're going to have order to them, right? They're going to have like, I've got to tell my wife about leaving the towels on the floor. I can't, I cannot step over wet towels anymore. It's making me insane. All the way down to, I need to have a really hard conversation with my dad about how he treated so-and-so on the holidays. I just made that up. My old man was great, but you know what I'm talking about. I want you to ride them all the way down, right? So if you are someone who must win at all costs, I want you to get with your spouse or your friend, someone you trust. I want you to practice presenting the challenge and letting them pretend to return. And you are not allowed to return fire. You can only say, thank you. Thank you for sharing for sharing that right so if you're somebody that you know that let's say your wife comes in and says hey you were late last night and you are

so quick you have a your your mind is fast why are you late last night you're always late and your response was oh yeah well and you fill in the blank rule you can rapid fire you can slice and dice somebody up right then i want you to to look at your list of conversations I need to have. And I want you to practice one with your buddies. And all you can respond with is thank you. And over the course of the next few days, I want you to process your feelings. Because if you're somebody that's got to win, it's going to grate on you, it's going to stick in your soul, and it's going to just go over and over. Are you pissed off you can't come back? Are you sad that they hurt you? What role are you playing in this issue, right? On the other side, if you're a doormat, I want you to write out your answers,

your thoughts, and read them. And I want you to practice responding in a dignified and respectable way. So let's say your wife was yelling at you and screaming at you, smashed a wine glass, and you left. The next morning you walk in and she says, oh, now you're coming home. I want you to say, hey, let's set up a time this afternoon for us to have a conversation. Let's set up a time. And at that point, you'll have written and practiced these things in a non-charged environment. That's when you're going'll have written and practiced these things in a non-charged environment. That's when you're going to have this engagement, not with somebody who's ready to fight, not with a husband or a friend or a coworker or a boss who's ready to fight, right?

I want you to practice responding in a dignified and respectable way. And when you write it down, you don't have to worry about your thoughts getting all jumbled up on you, and you can engage in the conversation. I'm actually both of these, depending on the topic. If it's something I get real heated about, I got to win the engagement, right? And if it's something that I know I've played a role in a little bit, I can become a doormat. And there has been seasons when I've had hard conversations and I actually said, I need to read this because my thoughts are going to get all jumbled up. And I've read it and I've been able to walk through it very succinctly. Even yesterday, yesterday, I got in a disagreement with someone I care about

and I actually just stepped away. I actually just stepped away and came back later and said, hey, I had to step away there. Here's what's going on in my heart and my head right now. And let's have this hard conversation, right? So these books are great. I think it's important to practice these things with people that you trust. Is this ridiculous? It can be. If your buddies came over for a couple of drinks and just play games, you're

like, hey, by the way, while we're here, I'm going to practice having a hard conversation with you. That's going to sound, they're going to look at you like, how about, I'm just going to leave because you're an idiot, right? It's super, super important to practice. And here's a big global thing. It's important that when you're having hard conversations, you've got to realize that if you win and they lose, or if you lose and they win, you both lose. If you both win, then you both win. Always know where you want to get when you're having a hard conversation. Always know what the goal of the outcome is, right? Where am I going with this? Do I just want to hit somebody? Just want to make sure they know how much I hurt? Or do they need

to know that I'm going to be transitioning out of this job because of X, Y, and Z? Do they need to know this behavior is not okay with me? Talking to me or my kids or my wife isn't okay with me, and this will not happen again, or fill in the blank here, right? Remember to approach folks with curiosity. Hey, why did you say that? Hey, every time I come home, you always greet me at the door with this. Why? Right? Approach folks with curiosity, not judgment, and go from there. Check these books out. But that's my thoughts on crucial conversations, on hard conversations, how to lean into them. At the end of the day, you got to just do it. You got to do it. Last thing, man, this drives me bananas. How often I've waited years. I've put up with just nonsense because I didn't want to have a

hard conversation. And what I ended up doing was feeling a little bit awful for a long, long, long time instead of having one hard, hard season. Have the hard conversations. Write them down. Have them. All right. I'll quit talking about that.

Let's go to Alicia in New York City. Alicia, what's up? How are you, Dr. Jones? So good. How about you? I'm good. I'm good. I wanted to talk to you because I pretty much have a unique situation. Bring it on. Let's do it.

So I'm lucky enough that at work I got picked for a fast track program. Very cool. So that's the upside. What's the fast track program? Like a leadership track or something? Yes. Dude, way to go, Alicia. Thank upside. What's the fast track program? Like a leadership track or something? Yes. Dude, way to go, Alicia. Thank you, thank you.

I'm so excited. I'm so excited. And in this leadership program, they shoot us. Like, you sound really sad. No, the thing is, believe me, I'm excited. You know, we're going to get to travel, and there's a lot of good things coming for us, a huge opportunity. However, I cannot wrap my head around the public speaking aspect oh no are you glossophobic you don't like speaking in public oh it's it's happened late like in the last few years

i was never i don't think i was ever this nervous but it has gotten terrible are you nervous now because? Because you're telling, like, you are talking to, well, there's only like 38 listeners. We doubled in the last week. Does this make you nervous being on the show? Or is that cool? A little bit. Okay, a little bit? A little bit. Alright, so walk me through. You're on a stage. Is it big crowds or little crowds or any crowds? Oh my god, on a stage I think I'd pass out. I think it's just, I think it's, especially when it's work, I think it's because I put so much pressure on myself that I have to be on point at all times. Okay. So, you know,

where does that come from? Where does that come from, Alicia? Probably because I was a young mom. Okay. So I've had to basically do everything. Have you been able to do everything? Sorry. Oh, you're good. Luckily, yes.

Have you been able? No, no, no, no, no, no. Uh-uh. I'm not letting you get away with luck. That's one of those things that single moms do to not be able to look in the mirror and say, hey, you know what's up? I'm so dope. I'm Alicia from NYC and I run this town. No, I. It's not luck. You've worked your butt off, haven't you? Yes.

And you're real smart, haven't you? Yes. And you're real smart, aren't you? Yes. And you grew and raised a human and still managed to be on the leadership track, right? Yes. And I bet your baby loves you too, huh? Yes. I'm very blessed. No!

I mean, you are, but you're also a good mom too right yeah i do anything for that so cool all right so you put a lot into this and you're the higher ups wherever you work have said man you are the future of this place and we're going to invest in you and there's a part of you that's like, yeah, that's what's up. And there's another part of you that's like, oh, no. They're going to find out. Is that fair? You know, yes. That is pretty accurate.

And you can, how many kids do you have? I have two. You can raise two humans and just I'm going to do this you know if the thought of raising two kids by myself that makes me want to not be alive

and you just handle that with grace and dignity and power and strength getting on a stage is simple man that's just acting. You can be a clown up there, right? So when you think of getting on a stage, have you ever just gotten up to give a speech and just blown it? Just completely wet the bed on it?

Not that awful, no. I think I've stumbled and, you know, said a couple things. Of course, I would have done differently, but no, not not have you ever got off stage and your co-workers are like that's the last time you're ever going to do that no I have I have and I do this for a living right are you still there yes I lost you for a second. Okay. Was that last question? I thought you said, I'm out of here. I said. No, no, no. No, I'm saying, I was asking, have you ever screwed up so bad that your co-worker said,

hey, you can never speak here again? No. Okay. I have. And I do speaking for a living. That's my job. Okay. All right.

So tell me, what are you terrified of? Like, what do you think is going to happen? I think it's just a failure the not living up to okay especially now right now i'm in this now it's like oh my god now you have to just maintain and keep going and and i i'm an over preparer okay i will i will you know prepare and and read over and look at everything and try to prepare for all the questions and I think my biggest fear is that there's a question that I don't have the answer to. I'm going to teach you a magic, magic phrase. You ready? While you're talking about being an over-prepare, I'm watching James and Kelly. They're just rolling their eyes back there. They're like, wow, that must be nice to work with someone who actually prepares. Here's a magic phrase, okay?

I'm going to save you a million dollars. Ready? Repeat after me. I don't know. I'm going to find that out. I don't know. I'm going to find that out. Yep.

See, look at that. Dude, we were solving problems on this show. All right. So here's the thing about glossophobia. That's just the nerd term for fear of speaking in public, right? I've never read the direct study, but anecdotally, it's repeated often enough that I'm going to consider it a fact for the time being, that it is the most common phobia. People are more scared of speaking in public than they are of actually being dead. Okay. And for somebody who

speaks in public for a living, I can't wrap my head around that, but I do, I can hear it enough to know here are folks like you that are like, I would never ever get on that stage and do that. So does preparing wear you out or is it exciting? Is it fun? I like getting, you know, when I start feeling comfortable, like, okay, I got this. I'm here. I got that. I got that. But yes, I do get worn out sometimes. Okay. So a couple of things I want you to know. Number one, I was working here and you know the name Dave Ramsey. Does that name ring a bell? Yes. Okay.

It was like 3 o'clock or 4 o'clock in the afternoon. I just finished filming some stuff, and I was about to leave, and there was a small event. This is right before COVID kicked off. There was a small event that was going to take place on a Saturday up here at the building that they were filming for a video shoot. And wouldn't you know it that on stage at three or four in the afternoon was not only Dave Ramsey, but also my buddy Chris Hogan,

who both of them have spoke, like done live events in front of millions of people. And there was a small stage, they were both on it, they were both facing opposite directions, and they were practicing a talk they were going to give to a couple hundred people. And that's when I realized, oh, that's what the greats do. They practice. They prepare. And I had just been a guy that would write down a speech on the back of an envelope as I'm walking up on stage. And it's gotten me by.

But I realized, whoa, this is a whole other level of preparation. And so you've already got that, right? You've already got the part where I need to make sure I know what I'm going to say. The people in the audience, I want to be a steward of the most precious resource on earth they have, and that's their time. But 30 minutes, an hour that you're giving that talk, they can never have that time back. I'm going to be a steward. I'm going to practice. I'm going to know what I'm going to say. And so then from there, I'm going to give you a couple things that can help you on stage, okay?

And then a couple things off of it, all right? So. I'm ready. Think of public speaking not as a lecture, but as a conversation. When I switched from thinking I had to give info to I was just having a conversation with folks. My heart rate changed, my shoulders changed, all my physiology changed

because what I was doing in my body was different. I wasn't talking at people. I wasn't teaching at people. I was just talking to folks. And it just shifted. And suddenly I've given the same talk to 10 people around a table that I've given a same talk to 10 people around a table that I've given to a thousand people in auditorium. It becomes the same thing

because I'm having a conversation. I can adjust it by people and size, but it changes my whole heart, right? And the speakers I've met that I love the most on stage are very similar to who they are off stage. So instead of thinking it as a performance, as a make or break, as now I'm, you know, I'm a backstreet boy or I'm Jay-Z, like I got to go up and like the lights are on. I mean, I was having a conversation backstage. I was having a conversation with three people. I'm going to go have a conversation with 300 people on stage. It just shifts the entire, your entire physiology, right? And then as things get more magnified and bigger, your heart rate will stay the same.

You know what you're going to talk about. You're prepared, right? You're way ahead of me, Alicia. And then it just becomes about, and I bet, are you real funny? My guess is you are real funny, like dry, witty. Someone's going to say something

and you will just do mic drop after mic drop with your friend group. Is that fair? Yes, I can be very quick. If it's something that is completely non-work related, it's totally different that I'm like, I'm game, let's do this. But when it's work related, it's like, oh my God. Okay, so here's where that anxiety gap is. Is the gap between you, who's the person that your company hired, you who is hilarious and your friends love,

and you're trying to put a space between them. And I want you to close that space, and I want you to be you everywhere. Because the world needs to hear about single moms who are awesome and get put on leadership tracks, right? Right. You've got some wisdom to share that me and my community need to hear, that your work community needs to hear, that the world needs to hear, right? Is that fair? Yeah.

Your company is paying to make you better. They are fast-tracking you. How can we get her in front of more people quicker? That's how much they invest, how much they think you're good, right? So I want you to close that gap and I want you to be witty and funny in conversation with your buddies at the bar, the same way, you got two kids, you're not at the bar, the same way, like at whatever, at daycare, whatever, I don't know where you happen to be going from place to place. And I want you to be that same

person on a stage and they are going to eat you up. And that just has to do with, I'm going to have conversation, I'm not performing, right? Here's the second thing. The nerd word is exposure therapy. That's just a fancy way for saying, you got to put yourself in situations where you got to do it. And that can look like signing up for different kinds of speeches, all different kinds of places. If there's a mom's group, a education group on Saturdays, if it's a church group, whatever that looks like, wherever you can get in front of folks to practice this skill of just being who you are offstage, walk up onstage, heart rate never changes. I'm just going to have a conversation. Man, you're going to get better and better and better at it.

Because when you talk to 10, you can talk to 1,000. Because when you talk to 10, you can talk to a thousand. If you can talk to a thousand or you can talk to a hundred, you can talk to 5,000. It's easier that way because man, they are more distant and further along. Right. And then here's the final thing. Find your humor and everyday moments and take it on stage with you. Give me a funny joke right now. You can do it. Do it. Make me laugh, Alicia. Oh my God. What's the funniest thing your kid has done recently? Oh, my kids in his twenties. So they just constantly,

you know, my kids are in their twenties. So they make fun of me all constantly. So, Oh, they're in their twenties. Come on, man.

You are at the bar. All right. So what's one thing that make you laugh? What's one thing they do that makes me laugh? Yes. Oh, when they just do imitations of how I raised them. Okay. So here's what you're going to do. You're going to take those imitations of how they raise you and you're going to imitate them imitating you. And that's going to be an awesome lead into your, to any sort of talk you're going to give. And everyone in the audience is

going to either have had parents that they imitate and mock, or they're going to have kids that they're tired of imitating them, right? It's the whole, man, you're going to build rapport with that audience. Find places to practice. Be who you're going to be offstage, onstage. Just have a conversation with folks. And more importantly, know this. Your company would not be investing in you if they didn't think you were the right person. Here, I want you to hang on the

line, Alicia. I'm going to give you a copy of this book, Redefining Anxiety. Any sort of phobia tends to manifest itself in this anxiety, especially this situational anxiety. I want you to check this book out, read it. Everybody else out there, this book's $10. It's easy read. If you can't read, this book's for you. If you're really smart, fancy pants, this is for sure for you because you're not that, I'm just kidding.

But yeah, check it out. It's $10. You can get it on johndeloney.com. But Alicia, hang on the line and we're going to mail you a free copy here. All right, so as we wrap up today's show, I realize to all my metal buddies I'm committing a party foul

and I don't care. I don't care. In 2005, I listened all the way through the record and I was about to, like, cool, that was a good record, man, they did a good job. Then the last song, the last song, I think it's track 15, 2005,

off the record entitled XY. And I know you shouldn't do Coldplay songs, but I'm doing it anyway. I'm doing it anyway. Here's how the song goes, right? Steal my heart and hold my tongue I feel my time, my time has come let me in, unlock the door I've never felt this way before

and the wheels just keep on turning the drummer begins to drum I don't know which way I'm going I don't know which way I've come hold my head inside your hands I need someone who understands I need someone, someone who hears For you I've waited all these years

For you I'd wait Till kingdom come Oh man, I'm getting romantic now How do you not love Coldplay? Until my day, my day's done And say you'll come and set me free Just say you'll wait You'll wait for me

The name of that song is Till Kingdom Come I didn't want to give it away Because you suckers have bad attitudes about Coldplay, especially you, Kelly. This has been the Dr. John Deloney Show.