The Dr. John Delony Show - Rachel Cruze on Knowing Yourself & Your Money

Episode Date: February 19, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU! Show Notes for this Episode Get Rachel Cruze's new book Know Yourself, Know Your Money Lyrics of the Day: "Dear John" - Taylor Swift / "Party in the USA" - Miley Cyrus These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Hey, what's up, what's up? John Deloney here with the Dr. John Deloney Show where we talk about your life, your challenges, the stuff going on in the world around you, the stuff going on in your heart, the stuff going on in your mirror. We talk about everything on this show, right? We take your live calls.

We take your emails, your Instagram. Follow me, at John Deloney. I've never said that before on my own show. It just feels weird. But we're in the world of the internets, kids. And so it's time. Follow me, at John Deloney. So today is a special interview episode of the Dr., kids, and so it's time. Follow me at John Deloney. So today is a special

interview episode of the Dr. John Deloney Show. One of my best buddies here at Ramsey Solutions is my good friend, Rachel Cruz. She is super fancy, super famous. She's Dave Ramsey's daughter, and she recently wrote a book. And so this was on my list, my 2020 list. It's called Know my list, my 2020 list. It's called Know Yourself, Know Your Money. Most of these interviews, when you see somebody who just wrote a new book, is they have these points and they just go down the points. And then the interviewer's like, oh, wow, no way.

And the interviewer's never read the book. And the interviewee acts surprised at the questions coming like, oh, I didn't think you were going to ask that, and then they just make it up, right? This interview is super not that. This is me chatting with my friend. We talk about this book, but we talk about the stories behind the stories in this book because I want to know what's it like growing up, thinking about wrestling with money, and your dad is the public voice about money in America, right?

What's it like getting married under a microscope? What's it like having these tendencies, having these things that you just default to? They're kind of embarrassing, right? So we get into it. This episode is just going to pick up right in the middle of a conversation between two good friends. Our families are friends. She's awesome. I'm mediumly got a book out and you go through like the points and the, like, here's the things you want to make sure everybody gets from this. Okay. Sure.

So big tell for this show is just like 11 listeners max, right? And a couple of them, my mom has different radios on at the same time. It's awesome. Yeah. There's only a few people on this show. So for those of you who don't know, I am really picky about what goes into my head and I read a lot.

And so this book is on my 2020 list as books that are real good and books that I went through and thought, that's not something I'd put together in that way. And I'm pretty snobby about the books I read. And I remember texting Rachel and said, this one's actually really good. You read like a super early copy before it even like went out. No, it's real good.

Because I wanted your input too. It's on my like, hey, this is a really good book list. Thank you. And so I just thought, man, instead of talking about this book and like snapping a picture on Instagram and be like, dude, bro, read this. Like, why not have you here? This is so great that you're here. And I appreciate me and the 14 listeners are so happy to have you here. So happy to partake.

So part of this thing is we get on this list of things. And I told you before, I'm not, I came up with my own questions. I love it. Because we're going to get behind the scenes. So that's what you're saying, though, is like you get these talking points. And so it's this, I've had the same interview close to probably 300 times. That's right. So I'm so dialed in.

And now we're at 301. Off script. I'm prepared. Okay. You get 30 seconds to do your on script pitch. Tell us about this book. And then we're getting way off into the woods. Oh, like I can really talk about it? Yep. Okay. So for 10 years now, almost a decade, over a decade now, I have been talking about the how-to of money, right? So how to budget, how to get out of debt, how to invest, how to refinance,

how to save, how to give, how, how, how. But if personal finance is 80% behavior and only 20% head knowledge, the how-to is kind of a small part of it. You actually have to do it and change your behaviors with money. And so all of this was in my head also because I was kind of on this journey myself probably four years ago. I remember taking the Enneagram. I read the book, The Birth Order Book because I'm a middle child. Witchcraft, voodoo, continue. Yes.

You really think so? Oh my gosh. All of that. Come on. Oh, I'm into all of it and counseling, all of it. But I was having all these like self-awareness moments. But you just went to witchcraft, voodoo, and science. All in all in the same science is almost voodoo sometimes right you think i'm just kidding birth no no all of this stuff so anyways for myself and my journey i was realizing a lot

about myself and i remember thinking okay not that i've arrived by any means but i do feel like i was a better wife and mom and frank's i was just way more in touch with understanding how I function and why I do the things I do. So then I thought, well, how does this apply to our money? Because I don't talk about that. I talk about how to budget and how to get out of debt. And it like sent me in this black hole, John. So out came the book where I was like, this is it. But understanding why you handle money the way you do is so key because I think a lot of life problems masquerade themselves as money problems. It's not really budgeting problems. It's not really a problem that you and your spouse can't do a budget together or you overspend or you're deeply in debt. There's a lot of other

stuff going on. And so getting to those root issues was really important. So it's everything from your childhood, your fears, your personality, your tendencies, your dreams, all of it. And that's what makes up the book, Why We do the things we do with money. Pete Walk me through, I love that analogy, walk me through your, got a black hole here. And I'm thinking of this as an author, because the cheater part of an author is I'm going to write something for somebody else. And this book came the other way, right? This is like, whoa, I'm looking in the mirror and this is scary. So, you're standing on the precipice of this black hole and you have something unique is you've got like a public figure

family that is all about money and then you got your own money stuff and then you find yourself five ten years married in which so you're bringing somebody else's money stuff all in the same place and you're standing over this precipice and you you're like, we're going to go down a rabbit hole. Walk me through that. Like, as I'm entering it, what I'm seeing, what I'm discovering? Well, I think money is so much more emotional than I ever gave it credit for. Okay. Like, again, the principles and everything we teach are vital.

Like, you have to have those. They are what they are, right? Yeah, you have to have those. Yeah, you have to have those. But I was starting to ask myself questions like, okay, Rachel, if nobody sees this purchase, do you still want it? Why am I even buying this? Or Rachel, are you buying this to feel good? Are you stressed?

Are you bored? I mean, it was that, it was those kinds of questions. I'd never really asked myself because I'm like, because in my head, if it's in the budget, I'm just going to get it, right? I can get it get it and it's fine Winston I agreed on it and all that okay

but now I'm sorry so then it's like this whole new realm and we were even talking a meeting the other day two weeks ago I came home from work because I have this like loft box is what it's called so it's a subscription to Ann Taylor loft you're welcome and you get new shirts like every week that you send back you just wear once and send back so the show that i do because it's on video yeah because it's like a subscription so the fact that i'm on video so much i'm like i don't need all these new clothes but i do have new looks and all that so long story short they sell the items really inexpensively if you choose to keep them so some of the items i do keep so i brought home like four items last week and I'm walking through the kitchen with clothes and I see Winston and I pass him in the kitchen

and I just made up the story in my head automatically that he's judging me. He's way more low maintenance than I am. And I have a closet full of clothes and here I am buying more clothes. And even though it's in the budget, he's thinking, Rachel, why do you keep spending money on clothes? You don't need new clothes. And I walked right out. I was like, babe, I bought four more shirts. They were all less than $10, but I bought them. I just need you to know.

And he literally was like, okay, babe, that's great. The last thing in his head. Oh, he's like, that's great. And I was like, okay, I kind of feel like you were judging me. And he was like, what? And I was like, I'm sorry. But I'm aware of that now. Before, I would justify it in my head and not even go there emotionally. But now, I'm allowing myself to ask those questions.

Does that make sense? Yes. So it was through that whole journey, through all of that, and then seeing how you were raised, going back and talking to mom and dad. It all was coming out. That was the black hole I was in. That's a lot. It came out as a book. Yeah, it did.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Most of us come out of those black holes with like jail time or like liver problems and you come out with a book. So way to go. Okay, so I want to talk about a couple of the things that you talk about in this book. And obviously, you know the show. For those of you who don't know, Rachel and I, our offices, I mean, our desks are right next to each other. In this show, we go down the rabbit hole on a daily basis, right? Getting into the messiness of people's lives. So, we're, one of the chief neon red signs over the last year has been this pulsing fear, fear, fear, right? And there's been, it started with, we're all going to die.

You know, 13 to 20 million of us are going to be dead in the next few months, right? Yeah. You and I were on a plane in Manhattan when Broadway shut down. We weren't in a plane. We were in a hotel, John, thinking we're going to be shut out of this island and stuck here. Yes. Do you remember that? One of the moments that, one of like the stamp moments of my life was when the pilot turned around and said, they closed the airspace. We can't leave. Oh, that's right. And I remember thinking, oh, this is when the movie starts, right? Like, yeah, yeah. But me and Ken were walking down, down Broadway when they came out of the theater

and said, Broadway's closed until further notice. And I remember us looking at each other like, whoa. Okay. so we were there. Like that night in the hotel, I remember thinking, I've got to get out of here because if they shut the, they were talking about shutting the bridges and tunnels, which obviously they didn't do.

But that time we had no clues, mid-March and man, we didn't know. It was mid-March 2020, right? And so. And the epicenter of it all. Right. So people are like hoarding toilet paper.

You couldn't buy a deep freezer for seven or eight or nine months, right? Now bullets are essentially currency, right? People are exhausted and scared and running. In this book, you talk about, I wrote them down. Here's some fears you run against. You talk about money, but they're way bigger than that, right? Lack of security, not realizing your dreams, the unknown, external forces, past mistakes, ending up like your parents um what do you how do you walk people through this idea of dealing with their fears and you talk to them about money but they're way bigger than that yes well and i would love your take on this john because you're a doctor and have some yeah whatever but you got a book some yeah i don't

have the letters after my name well dr chip dodd is someone that I really talked to for a while on the phone when I was talking about this subject because I love his take on emotions in general. But I loved what he said. He said that fear can be seen as a gift, that fear is your body's literal response that you are in need of something. Okay. So, when you can identify that fear and name it, put truth around it, put safeguards in place, that's what you want. Now, when it goes to paralyzing, you can't make decisions. It goes into anxiety, all of that. Like, that's the unhealthy side we don't want.

But the good fear of what you could see as a gift is if you are one of the Americans that, you know, live paycheck to paycheck, 78% of them, 40% of Americans couldn't cover a $400 emergency in cash. And so if that was your reality in 2020 and you were furloughed or laid off, that fear of financial security or insecurity rises in you. And so what you can do is take that fear and say, okay, what is that fear? Because yeah, that's a legitimate fear. If you don't have money in the bank and you lose your job, of course you're going to be freaked out and fearful or if you think like i need to have meat because they're going to close i mean they're going to close the grocery stores right right right like whatever that fear is so so in that money specific situation i want that to be able to be your your red light that says okay the way i've been handling my money isn't working it's not

going to work if there's a pandemic it's not going to work if i'm laid off it's not going to work if there's a pandemic. It's not going to work if I'm laid off. It's not going to work if a health crisis comes. Okay, what would work? Having money saved, being out of debt, not owing anyone anything, like putting these principles in place, the how-to of money that we talk about so much. So, letting that fear be somewhat of a, not your only motivator, because I know fear is not a terrible motivator, I've heard that, but at least let it be your signal. I mean, it's literally your body's response that you are in need of something. So, what is that need and what can you do around it? mean, it's literally your body's response that you are in need of something. So what is that need? And what can you do around it? So that's kind of what I walk through with these money fears.

So help me with mine. So I actually have a few of these. So I have a particular background, like I have a particular family story. And I've been an idiot. I've always had a scheme with how the money is going to work. Dude, I would have been all over this GameStop thing had I been 10 years ago. It's so sad. All my schemes would have paid off. And external forces, right? They're all just going to come and we're going to be trading coffee and bullets and whatever, hides or whatever the thing is. Help me with mine. How would you walk somebody through? How would you take me from these fears? Like, dude, they're coming for us. We're not going to have enough. I'm such an idiot from the things I've done in the past. How would you take me from these fears like dude, they're coming for us. We're not gonna have enough

I'm, such an idiot from the things i've done in the past. How would you walk me back from that? Well, I mean I would in the book I talk about each one specifically so the external force is one Focusing on the things you can control because we can wring our hands Well, what if the meat runs out or what if this person gets elected into office? What if what if? But those are things that we can't control, right? But there are things we can control in our life. We can control our income when it comes in, what we choose to do with it. We can control our work ethic. We can control the people we hang out with. Like, there are elements of our life that we can control. And so, that's a big one for that external forces. Because I do, people just watch

the news, wring their hands, and think we're all going to die. And I'm scared to do anything. And that fear becomes paralyzing. Okay, well, stop there and say, okay, well, what are the things that we can put in place that we can control? And focusing on that. So that would be one. The parents thing.

Yeah, I don't want to end up like my parents. I mean, it's a big one. I mean, walking through that, my counselor said this, and I loved it. He said, we're not here to bash your parents, but we're not here to defend them. We're here to tell the truth. Ah, okay. So what's the truth? Like, what is that?

And so for you to be able to go back, whoever that is, I mean, I heard stories, people said, you know, I grew up basically what felt like a dirt floor and had to buy the two-day-old expired bread at the grocery store because we couldn't afford anything. And I never want to be like that. I never want money to be like that for me. I want more of it, right? Or I talked to one girl, and her parents, everything looked great on the outside.

It was like the typical family, right? Great house, great cars, dressed great, all of it. And she was like, but we were a mess as a family. She was like, we were all miserable. Gotcha. And so she said to me, she was like, I just want to drive a Honda Civic for the rest of my life because they had all these luxury cars and everything. And I laughed. I was like, we're all miserable. Gotcha. So she said to me, she was like, I just want to drive a Honda Civic for the rest of my life

because they had all these luxury cars and everything and I laughed and I was like, that's so funny but no, that's not the reality for her.

She doesn't need to drive a Honda Civic not to end up like her parents but to say, okay, what were the things? How was money talked about? How was it placed,

the value system of it? Did it have control over me? Because money's powerful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do they say? Money, sex, and power are like the three deadliest sins. Okay.

I've heard people say that and I love that because it's true, but money is one of those. It takes you to a level if you're not careful. And so, I think being able to identify your family of origin

and how money was viewed, how it was handled. Okay. Tell the truth about the situation and then what things are you going to put in place for that not to happen and being intentional about that. So, I'm in and then what things are you going to put in place for that not to happen and being intentional about that.

So I'm in control of what my tomorrow is going to look like, right? Say again. I'm in control of what my tomorrow will look like, right? To an extent,

but not fully, right? I don't know. You're the psychologist. Well, I'm saying like it's when I don't stop and acknowledge that story or of... Yes. I thought you were saying that was a trick question. No, no, no, no, no.

I was trying to pitch you an underhanded ball. I'm so sorry. I took it as if you were trying to pin me. For those of you who don't do interviews for a living, I just threw an underhand pitch with a giant red bouncy ball, and she just completely swung and missed. She was just like, well, we're playing ball, and she missed. I don't know, John.

You take this one. I don't know. I'm scared. So speaking of fears um but no but but so a lot of folks walk through life and don't realize they're replaying a script right and so when you recognize it the second and you mentioned this a second habit our second tendency we have is to go to war with them right with our old parents who are trying to figure things out in the 70s or 80s or whenever they were.

And that ends up with a lot of bloodshed and not a lot of things are solved by just going to war. Right, right. Or we gloss over it and pretend it didn't happen. And that doesn't help either. But then, yeah, at the end of the day, I get to choose on what tomorrow is going to look like. Yes, that's right. That's right. So I don't know how vulnerable you feel like being today, but this is the show of vulnerability.

So what did. My greatest money fear. Yeah. That's what you're going to ask. Yeah. Not so much. That's cool. But more.

What did what mirror work did you have to do to acknowledge it? I would say my one of my moments, especially during COVID, was I woke up, it was probably May-ish, I would say, in the morning. And I just had this moment of like, oh my gosh, are we going to be okay? Like, it was to the point that working from home was happening and all the meat shortage was happening, all of it. And it was like, I remember thinking, okay, what if our 401k is bottom out never return like what if amazon prime doesn't ship in two days because they're saying it's three weeks now and and like what if what if what if and i had this moment where i realized wow i and i was saying it out loud because i went to bed and i was saying the same thing i was like babe i was telling winston like like what if all this just goes away like what do we do and he laughed the first thing he said

because it's always his answer when i ask that question he's like i will landscape yards yes we're gonna be fine yep it's gonna be fine uh and number two he was like it's fine like we're good like i was so irrational almost okay and i realized that i had placed a lot of value and security and safety and money without even realizing it. So, like, it is wise, everything we talk about, right? Being out of debt, having an emergency fund, funding retirement, setting yourself up well. But that safety, that spectrum can go to an unhealthy place where it becomes so much about that, that the moment that foundation possibly is shook like it made me think who am i

like am i good like if we lost everything like oh my gosh okay so take me to that moment it freaked me out it's okay what does that feel like because i i i've worked so hard for my job my the blessings in my life given via you know my family and my parents and they've worked so hard like all of this and my and my personality can easily it could become everything and so i have done intentional work to leave everything like this okay like i've seen i've even told friends i'm like if like crap hits the fan and everything's done with i don't want you to have to put me me in a padded room at Vanderbilt because I literally don't know who I am. Gotcha. That's my goal in life.

Okay. So, obviously, I don't want crap to hit the fan at Ramsey. We love Ramsey. Why did you go on? Because it's helping a lot of people. But I'm a three on the Enneagram. I know you think it's voodoo. But that can easily become my world.

So, I just have to be very aware. So, it was that moment where it wasn't necessarily my job that was freaking me out at the moment. It was my money. Your identity. And I never thought my money would be that deep of a security. But in that moment, it was. Gotcha. And so it just made me recheck.

It was convicting. Yeah, yeah. Okay, switching gears. Some people... Thanks, Rachel, for spilling your heart out. No, it's awesome. Okay, now we need to change. This is so great.

Yeah, we're done with it. No more of that counseling session. We're done with that. All right. So, it's almost been a split. And I hate to bifurcate things this way. I hate to barbell it, right? It's either or.

But what I've heard a lot is people are, this has been the worst year ever. Compounded and compounded and compounded. And then there's this also quiet whispering, which is, this has been the best year for me and my family ever, right? Like financially, we just went to work and it's been awesome. Someone got laid off and so I went and got another job. It's paying me more money. My marriage is better because we had to figure stuff out. My marriage, like the SEO data here, like people are Googling divorce, divorce, divorce. It's just got like a trend line, right? Some of that falls into this middle ground, which is people have made decisions.

They've made mistakes. They've screwed stuff up. They've done things that violate their core values is the way I would say that. And we just beat the crap out of ourselves when we do that. When we find ourselves violating one of our core values, we say something we didn't mean. And I just wrote some things down, right? When you text somebody you shouldn't have, when you call an old boyfriend and we lie about it, when we promise ourselves that we are not going to eat sugar anymore or drink anymore, or we're going to work out, whatever. These failures are these violations, right? In the book, you talk about money mistakes. I don't know a person this year that has not

made money mistakes. Like we've got this set of rules in our house. We've got a budget in our house. We have nothing in our house. And they look back and go, oh my gosh, like what have I done, right? How have you experienced, and and by the way you said money mistakes I'm calling them failures and violations and you're like money mistakes you're such a positive spin on it you're so kind just a mistake yes um how have you experienced these mistakes this year uh personally you mean it's more fun if you tell us personally but yeah I mean I talk to bajillions of people yeah what was funny though is i so i wrote back to the book john well played yeah i wrote the book before my before my third kid before charles came because i wanted to have

a full maternity leave so the manuscript of the book was not due until March of 2020. Well, I wrote it and ended it October of 19, okay? So, there was like a big chunk of time that that manuscript was set before it was due. So, during COVID, I was editing the book, which was such a different take, right? You're like in this weird world and it was this pre-world before COVID and then I'm sitting here in COVID editing the book. And so, for me, a lot of my mistakes came, the spending chapter, I talk about why we spend the way we spend. And that was huge for me. I even edited some of that to put these stories in because I was like, I literally am sitting here during a pandemic buying off Amazon more than I ever have in my life. And I'm

justifying every purchase because of its price. It's just 15 bucks. It's not a big deal. Oh, it's just that, that, that. Because it feels good, right? And we know this. There's a dopamine hit that happens when you spend. And so for me, oh, I was caught in that so much. And not even because I necessarily was stressed. I was more bored at times. It just felt good.

It was exciting. It was something exciting going on that there was going to be a package showing up at my front door do you know what i'm saying like a friend showing up yeah yeah for me to unpack it and it's and i forgot i forgot i ordered that what a great gift from myself i love it i'm the best yeah i'm so great uh yeah so that it was a lot of that kind of stuff it was like that medicator and because it felt good so i had similar where i would show up i'd go to the hardware store for a quick thing and i'd show up with a like sheila they've got deep freezers and i got another one she's like we have one john and i was like i know but you know just in case because of a scarcity mindset yeah and she would ask like so what do you think's gonna happen

and what are we gonna put in there and my head's like, well, you know, you know, you just start, it's just nonsense, right? So, one of the things I've experienced over the last decade, if you will, is that people often talk to themselves, not often, all the time, talk to themselves in ways they would never let somebody else talk to somebody else, right? It's unbelievable how we abuse ourselves internally. Put us in the mind of someone who's, unlike this show, has a successful show, just gets sad and writes a book about it, right? Just experiences some things and can crank books out. How do you handle negative self-talk? Like you get these purchases and you're like

I teach people this for a living right like me I teach people how to be well and how to have good marriages and then I say something stupid and then I go to bed and I'm like good job marriage guy right and my wife's like how about you sleep in the yard right how do you how do you experience the self-talk and how do you work your way through it? That's a good question. I tend to, sadness, I have learned, is like the emotion I hate the most. Okay. I don't want to be sad. All right.

And I will do things in order not to be sad. Everything's fine. So I probably could sit in those emotions more than I do. But yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, the moment I realized, oh yeah, this Amazon package or this or that, I'm like, oh. Or you just catch that one glance in your husband's eye and he's like. Yes. You know what I mean?

You're judging these purchases. And he's like, what? Yeah, I mean, I would say the, yeah, the negative self-talk of, oh, you did it again. Of course you, of course you were. Of course you did. Of course you did. It's almost that. But then I just go to justify it because I don't want to feel that.

So I say, well, and then I go, are you ready for this? I go to the budget, and I say, well, it's in the budget, and I just can justify it. Because just because you, Matthew McConaughey said this, and I appreciate it. Just because you can, oh, what did he say? It was so good. Just because you can, oh, what did he say? It was so good. Just because you're able, is it necessary?

Okay. Or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is a big question. Like, that's like, oh, my, wow. That's it. That's it for me. So we can, but should we?

Yeah. Do I need it? No, I don't. I don't need another necklace that's $8.99 from probably China. I don't need that um i saw a great instagram thing that was like how does 4.95 plus 8.50 plus 7.17 at target equal 137 dollars like when you get to the end they just yes yes yes so what how do you teach somebody to recover from that shame that mistake that like what an idiot dude um that you're self-worth who you are right this is like very brené brown but it's true like you

are not the mistake like you're you can make mistakes that's not who you are right so it's that level of grace and i feel like when you i find people that have a tough time extending grace usually have a tough time extending it to themselves as well. So it's kind of back to what you're saying, like the way we treat ourselves, we wouldn't always treat other people like that. Yeah. And then give me the other side, the one that is constantly overgracing themselves. The enabler. That's probably what I would call them. Almost when you enable yourself, like the constant justifier, right? The justifier. Yes. Oh yeah. It's in the budget.

It's fine. You can afford that. It's just 15 bucks. So give us one question if you're an over justifier. And again, I love this book because it's about your money, but it's so much more than that. So it is, I shouldn't have texted that person. When in a justification, right? Like my old boyfriend just reached out uh my wife doesn't

need to know about or my husband doesn't need to know about that it's all good right or i wasn't gonna eat sugar but it's just a birthday party it was just a christmas thing i don't want to be rude to kelly she brought us whatever what i just bought this i know it was the budget was fine what's what's a sentence a justifier can ask themselves? There's no right or wrong to this. Yeah, specifically around spending money, I think it would be the question of why, simply. Like, why did you do it? Was it to feel good? Okay.

Was it because you're bored? Yeah. Okay, well, why are you okay not being bored? Because I don't want to sit alone with my thoughts. You know what I'm saying? Like, asking that. Was it you that said it? It's like the four why level.

Who was that that talked about that? Ask why four times and you can get to the root. Oh, okay, okay. So I love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So take the credit. I thought I was going to credit you for it. Was that you?

No, super wasn't me. I'm more sophisticated than that, but yeah, I'll take it. So why don't you like sadness? And that sounds silly, but why i'll take it so so why why don't you like sadness and that sounds silly but why do you avoid it uh it's the one emotion that makes me uncomfortable i don't like it i don't like people being sad um i don't know because my counselor would be like rachel we've paid many sessions for you to work on this and i can't come up with the answer you paid for my

summer vacation that's right your sessions uh i don't know it just it makes me uncomfortable more for the other person too okay i think i can feel i can put on a level of sadness but i also don't want to stay there because there's a level of me that's like pull yourself up by your bootstraps okay and so sadness falls into an un... Necessary emotion. But it doesn't. Thank you, Dr. Chip Dodge. You should write that down and take that to your therapist. It doesn't, though. Sadness allows you to grieve what you really love.

Okay. The healthy part of sadness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But... And so I often find folks who fall into a, what I call the peacekeeping trap, want to make sure everybody else is okay. Right? Yes. And I wouldn't leave them with them. I want to make sure everybody else is okay right yes and I want to make sure

everybody else isn't sad it's that and I'm not funny I'm like you can be mad you can be angry we'll have conflict you can be annoyed you can have all the emotions

but like if you're sad I'm like oh let me fix that please don't be sad like movies this is us the TV show

why people want to watch a sad show on a tuesday night or whenever it comes on i watch like three episodes of it i was like no i'm gonna spend an hour of my life watching like this sad thing on tv absolutely not so there's a hundred percent chance that i'm gonna have rachel back on the show and we're gonna talk about all the stuff she does watch and then we're gonna we're gonna analyze that it's so good i do love i love that show too okay so yes youtube videos oh my gosh that i think we're credible if you were to um if you were to take a lot of acid and then look at rachel's youtube search history your brain would explode and i know they're going to edit that out, but I'm just telling you, whoa, whoa. Rachel's one of the wonderful people that you see every day and they look like they've

got their life together and they're so kind and they believe everything on YouTube. And my brain can't, it can't do the math on it. It doesn't work. All right. Last thing we're talking about. Oh, I was in a deep conspiracy in COVID and and Winston and Christy Wright, two different people. She's still super there, by the way. We're like, why does this one guy that has 69 views on YouTube know this stuff, but no one else does?

And I'm like, because no one else will report it. Exactly. He's the only one. If there's a dude filming a YouTube video from the trunk of his car at a state park, Rachel's like, this guy knows. He super knows. I believe everything you say. Do you have a bug out bag? Do what?

I feel like you would have a bug out bag, though. Do you? I just call it common sense. Oh. That's a different level, then. Here's the way I live my life things are probably going to be okay almost all the time but they might not be like when the grid gets shut down so just be ready for all those things right what do we do and it's so awesome is that i buy deep freezers

and you buy necklaces that's what makes us awesome you would think i would have all this when the grid goes down i I'm going to sparkle. All right. So the last thing here is this, is the tendencies. Okay. So you talk about money tendencies, which are our default settings. And I kept hearing tendencies as identities or stories we tell ourselves or stories we tell ourselves about ourselves.

Okay. So I picked a few. Tell us real quick about the saver spender or the free spirit and the nerd okay so these spectrums just a few of them you've got several tendencies yeah for sure yeah yeah okay so the extremes i'll say are unhealthy and then i want to pick them apart psychologically oh man okay help me with them i got 10 minutes john we got 10 minutes we got it spender saver yeah i mean like if i gave you 100 bucks your knee jerk reaction is to spend it or save it Like that that's an easy one somewhat to to understand and then again the extremes are unhealthy

So if you spend everything you make you're gonna be broke If you save everything you make you're a hoarder and probably not very generous. So like it kind of goes on those extremes Uh free spirit nerd is the that's a classic ramsey ism. So usually around budgeting or managing money Are you more of a free spirit don't like details and that's a classic Ramsey-ism. So, usually around budgeting or managing money. Are you more of a free spirit? Don't like details? Eh, that's okay. It's not wrong. If you go to the extreme of that, it can get bad because you're not being intentional. You're choosing not to budget if that's what you're choosing to do and living off that main emotion. The nerd enjoys the budget. They're good with numbers. They love Excel. They love details. That's naturally their gifting. The extreme side of that is they become legalistic and there's no room for

error or anything because they just live and die by the budget. So, when I think of saver versus spender or free spirit versus nerd, it feels like rational versus emotional or strong versus weak. And you characterize those. Let me put it this way. I have been around relationships. I've walked alongside folks who weaponize either one of those things, right? Yes, yes. Like we would be so much better if he wouldn't fill in the

blank or if she would just fill in the blank right so the free spirit sounds so romantic and loving life and the nerd feels like you know fun ruiner.com and the how in the financial world which is funny is the nerds more praised the free spirit i feel like is the one that gets like the yeah exactly yeah yeah funny though but like i love that example that you just said because i'm like yes and it could be the opposite people like oh yeah like i'm really good at a budget like in my world people praise those people you're the free spirit like you're irresponsible yeah you've got you just ruin everybody's yeah yeah so how do you there's often a fine line between identities and excuses right this is who i am right this is just i'm this way versus that gives me a pass to sorry honey i'm just the free spirit like i know

but that's a you spent five hundred dollars on supplements that conversation has never happened in my life like um i'm just a free spirit hun and you're the nerd so how do you help folks walk back the difference between identity versus that's just an excuse i mean i think there's a level of responsibility you have when you're an adult so like you don't get to you just went straight to like um that's ridiculous you grow up seriously like you but no you're right yes like for the free spirit like you have a responsibility you don't get to just go do whatever you want because you're part of a marriage jaco for a therapist by the way just do it right good job but like you have a level of responsibility as a free spirit and you also have the level of responsibility as a nerd not to push everyone

away in your life and to love people well and give grace. So there's responsibilities on both ends that we have. So to move to that middle, it's a level of awareness that I can tend to be one or the other, which, right, neither one is bad, right or wrong. It's not true. So you can be okay and be a free spirit or a nerd. But that healthy medium is that healthy medium

because I can be a free spirit, but choose to budget because when I budget, we know where our money is going. We get to go do fun things. We get to go on vacation because we're setting money aside. And that's the balance then, right? For the free spirit for me, yes, absolutely. And then pushing the nerd. I don't know nerds. I'm a free spirit.

So the nerds out there, their balance is just to enjoy. Yes. So, I love this. The language you put in the book is helpful for me. I immediately go to how do people hurt each other with these labels, right? And as I went through it, I kept thinking it was fun because I'm looking at myself like I'm the free spirit. And I instantly want to be like, yeah, I'm not a nerd. And as you mentioned, nerds do things like pay their bills.

And nerds like buy cars with cash and stupid things like that. Invest and make money. Blah, blah. Yeah, exactly. And free spirits enjoy their life, right? Unlike us. So, no, like us, like us. Yes, we are fun.

But you both need each other. We are fun. We are not sad. We are fun. And nerds aren't funny. I love, there's a whole other conversation. All right, so the last question and we got a few minutes left.

You mentioned a few times about counseling. What is something you've learned about yourself? One of my missions with this show is to norm, like going spelunking into your heart and into your past and then finding ways that you can change your relationships and change your life in a positive way. Sometimes it's little bitty things, sometimes it's big things. Two things.

I'm very selfish. Okay. My needs and wants, like I like, yes. They're the same. They are? Or you're asking? No, I'm saying for a selfish person, needs and wants are the exact same thing. Yes, yes.

And in the same talk, back to the sadness thing, I can avoid pain. I will avoid pain. I can avoid tough conversations. If something sad, something that should make someone sad happens, parenting, marriage, whatever, you fill in the blank. I tend to check out and say, it's going to be fine. It's going to be okay. And by doing that creates that that level of unauthenticity okay not vulnerability because i don't allow myself to go there

in a relationship sometimes so when you have over over the years in counseling you've probably had to practice that yes what give some language to what it feels like when you do um when you practice sitting with someone who's just sad do I practice sitting with someone just sad? no engaging my feelings would be to be able to verbalize and communicate exactly what I'm thinking and feeling without filtering

and I even say that out loud I'm like okay I don't want to do this because I don't want pain for you I don't want pain for me but I'm choosing to have this conversation because i love you and i want a better relationship and so here are the places you've hurt me here's the you know the sadness the fear the anger that i was feeling like just being able to lay it out okay and be okay with that because here's the deal too this took many hundreds of dollars in counseling you can't control what the other person does with that.

That's right. And so being able to go into those conversations knowing I can't control you, I can't change you. But for me to be able to tell the truth with what I experienced, that's a huge cleansing step. And when you do that though, you know this, but like you're opening yourself up to be known and that person can choose to reject it. Yeah. So that's scary. know this but like you're opening yourself up to be known and that person can choose to reject it yeah it's that scary but you do it for the for the relationships that are worth fighting for because those are exhausting conversations so like the people in my life that are worth fighting for my family which should just be a few people my marriage yes like a few of my great close friends

yeah me and i'll probably put the energy i'm just kidding you and she rachel never has these conversations with me. She's like, oh, oh, hmm. And then she moves on. It's fine, everybody. It's fine. Yeah, but there's like the people that you're like, no, I will fight for that relationship.

So I will go there in places like I don't like to go, but I will in order to be known. So paint me a picture of your physiology while it's happening. What does that feel like? It's weird. I mean, it's been years, so I've practiced it. I'm calm now.

Okay. And I've learned, though, my voice, I get bigger. When people get insecure, they either turn or they go big. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I go big. My voice will get loud. Even my body posture. I mean, I get big.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah like yeah yeah yeah so so you ramp up for it no no no I watch myself because when that starts to happen I can feel it go

so then I have to take a few I like okay calm back down my language yes my tone my speed yeah

all of it so that so for whatever it's worth are your shows always like this is it like one big counseling session? Your therapist is awesome and here's why. As soon as somebody can make a connection between their physical response and their emotion, that is the key, right? Because then I know, oh, wait a minute, they're not making me feel this way.

This politician isn't making me feel this way. This is my body responding to the fact I'm scared or that I'm nervous or that I'm sad. And so, what you just did for folks listening, all 14 of them, is give them like, oh, I start octaving up my voice and then I want it, right? And I start, and that may just be a signal that I'm scared or I'm uncomfortable or that being sad in my family was a no-go and so I don't want to go there. And when I start feeling like we're entering into sad space, then my body's like, whoa,

rally the troops, right? And whatever that looks like. Or I'm the opposite. I turtle up and say, bye. Yeah. And- Shut off. Withdraw.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. I will- That's deep enough for today, Rachel. John, thank you. Can I Venmo your account for the $150, whatever your fee is?

She just sent a message into my ear. She's like, the spaghetti, John, the spaghetti. So this, we got to wrap this mom's spaghetti. She's also a rapper. All right, so we end every song with your favorite lyrics. And I actually have a song. Y'all, again, Rachel works over in the office with us and she sings this song all the time always going um but she said hey i want to do two so you do yours

and then all i have the one i printed off that you're always just singing in the office okay i'm not a music person so when john's like you gotta bring lyrics i was like what so then i googled taylor swift of course this is one of my favorite songs and i've never actually read the lyrics i not a music person. So when John was like, you gotta bring lyrics. I was like, what? So then I Googled Taylor Swift. Of course you did. This is one of my favorite songs. And I've never actually read the lyrics, I don't think. It's such a favorite.

I don't even know the words. Please. I hope they're so revealing and offensive. Here's the one part of the story that I do love. And if I'm in my car, I can just, yes,

is this it? What's the name of the song? Oh, here we go. Dear John. Well played. It's about John mayer or john deloney a little bit of my us weekly vibes okay because i love us weekly and the fact she wrote a song entitled dear john makes it amazing or it could be about me but whatever you're an expert at sorry and keeping the lines blurry never impressed by me acing your tests he had tests that she didn't ace you catch that john it's brilliant

all the girls that you've run dry have tired lifeless eyes because you burn them out here's best part but i took your matches before fire could catch me so don't look now i'm shining like fireworks over your sad and empty town i mean mean, what? Was the fireworks back in... Brilliant. Katy Perry reference? Oh, yeah, and then... I think it was before Katy's time, though. Oh, damn.

I'm trying, guys. Dear John, I see it all now that you're gone. Don't you think I was too young to be messed with? The girl in the dress cried the whole way home. Z Taylor, you sad look. I gravitated towards a sad lyric. Did you hear that?

You went right to the sadness. Your therapy's working. Oh, but the best was the matches. And you said, light me on fire. I'm now exploding as a firework. So, and as we wrap up today's show, the other song that she sings

all the time in the office, there's a perfect song for Rachel Cruz. By the way, as we wrap up, get this book. It's awesome. I'm not even going to give you the title. Will I know it? Well, you sing it every single day, dude.

Oh, so you claim so I can't? Okay, go. Yeah. I'm not even going to give you the author of the song, the writer or the performer or the name of the song. I'm just going to read these lyrics as she reads them, as she just, I mean, just lets it go all the time. It goes like this. I hopped off the plane at LAX with a dream in my cardigan. Welcome to the land of fame and excess.

Whoa. Am I going to fit in? Jumped in the cab. Here I am for the first time. Looked to my right, and I see the Hollywood sign. This is all so crazy. Everybody seems so famous. My tummy's turning, and I'm feeling kind of homesick. Too much pressure right and I see the Hollywood sign. This is all so crazy. Everybody seems so famous. My tummy's turning and I'm feeling kind of homesick. Too much pressure and I'm nervous.

That's when the taxi man turned on the radio and a Jay-Z song was on. So I put my hands up. They're playing my song. Her hands are going up right now. The butterflies fly away. I'm nodding my head like yeah. I'm moving my hips like yeah. I got my hands up and they're playing my song and I know I'm nodding my head like, yeah. I'm moving my hips like, yeah. I got my hands up and they're playing my song and I know I'm going to be okay because it's a party in the USA. It's a party in the USA. Can I add an asterisk to this? Absolutely. Have you seen the clip of the taxi driver

re-saying the lyrics and it's like, it's a girl named Miley. She took my aux cord and plugged into like the whole thing. It's so good. Ladies and gentlemen, I have no idea what she's talking about. This has been the Dr. John Deloney show.