The Dr. John Delony Show - Setting Boundaries, Coping With Cancer, & a Hidden Pregnancy

Episode Date: September 30, 2020

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that gives you real talk on life, relationships and mental health challenges. Through humor, grace and grit, John gives you the tools you need to cut through the chaos of anxiety, depression and disconnection. You can own your present and change your future—and it starts now. So, send us your questions, leave a voicemail at 844-693-3291, or email [e-mail]. We want to talk to YOU! Show Notes for this Episode 1:37: I'm exhausted after cancer treatments; how do I move past this? 11:49: I had a baby and gave it up for adoption last year; how do I tell my parents? 22:32: Teaching segment: Grief Finding Meaning: The Sixth Stage of Grief - David Kessler On Death and Dying: What the Dying Have to Teach Doctors, Nurses, Clergy and Their Own Families - Elisabeth Kübler-Ross On Grief and Grieving: Finding the Meaning of Grief Through the Five Stages of Loss - Elisabeth Kübler-Ross & David Kessler 28:03: How can I help my parents set boundaries for my brother who has just moved back in with them? 36:01: Lyrics of the day: "Murdered in the City" - The Avett Brothers   tags: cancer, exhaustion, secrets, adoption, honesty, grief, boundaries, Avett Brothers, David Kessler, Elisabeth Kübler-Ross These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.  

Coming up on today's show, we're going to be talking about life after cancer treatment, how to have hard conversations with your parents, how to step in when your brother or sister is hurting your parents, and we're going to am John and this is the Dr. John Deloney Show. The show for you, about you, and with you. We're talking about relationships, relational IQ, your mental health, teaching kids at home school. That's turned into a walking disaster. We're going to be talking about being a good friend. People at the grocery store who seem shocked when they get up to the front of the line that,

oh, they've got to pay, and then they start digging into the back of their pants or in their purse. Listen, when you go to the grocery store, there's this awesome exchange that happens. You take their stuff, and you pay them. You give them stuff. So let's get to the front of the line and be prepared. All right, so whatever's going on in your heart, in your mind, in your soul, we're talking about it here. If you're looking for honesty in a world where truth doesn't seem to exist anymore, you've come to the right place. If you want a first or second opinion, I'm here to walk with you.

Give me a call at 1-844-693-3291. That's 1-844-693-3291. That's 1-844-693-3291. You can also email me at askjohn at ramsaysolutions.com. That's askjohn at ramsaysolutions.com. All right, let's go straight to the phones today. We've got a lineup full of good calls. Let's see here. Let's go to Joe in British Columbia.

Brother Joe, how are we doing this morning? I'm doing well, thanks. Outstanding. How can I help, man? So I'm 19 years old, and earlier this year I had to have some chemotherapy treatments for a cancer that was recurrent. Thankfully, as of right now, I don't need any more treatment. But I find that I'm feeling somewhat worn out and tired, and I have a tendency to suppress how I feel a bit. So I'm

just wondering if you have any advice for me. Yeah, so let's back up a little bit. I've got some thoughts here, but I want to hear more about your story, man. That sounds like a tragic, frustrating, out of nowhere turn here. So how did you find out you needed chemotherapy, that you had cancer? Yeah, so it started about a year earlier, so in 2019. I was just finishing up high school, and then I found out that I had sort of a, I had testicular cancer, so I had to have surgery for that. And then after they monitored me for a few months, they realized that it had spread to my lungs, so I had to have chemotherapy treatments earlier this year, around February and March.

Joe, can I just stop? Without any, I just want to have a human moment here. I just want to let you know that sucks, man. Eighteen-year-olds are supposed to be thinking about who they're going to marry and their next steps and going to college and getting a job, and they should not be worrying about who they're going to marry and their next steps and going to college and getting a job and they should not be worrying about testicular cancer and they should not be worrying about their mortality at 19 brother that sucks and i hate that for you man walk me through this the first time you realized oh man i've this doesn't feel right something's growing on me that's

not supposed to be there i don't feel good and then you go to the doctor and they give you this diagnosis. Walk me through that. Yeah. It all happened pretty quick. Like I went to see my family doctor and then like a week later they did some testing and then it was like just like bombarded with different phone calls that I needed to do this and that and that. And then like basically I think it was just a

few days after I found out that they had, that they did surgery. It was all like really quick. It happened in like maybe a two week span from when I first went to my family doctor to when I had surgery. So it all, it all was kind of just a bit of a blur almost. So now that it's settled, do they, have they announced that you are currently not showing any signs of cancer? Yeah, that's correct. So the recent tests that I've done have come back clear. So now they're just kind of monitoring me.

So does that give you some peace in your heart? Yeah, it does. But there's always the chance that it comes back. They don't really say you're cancer-free until five years later. Right, right. But no, for the most part, I do feel at peace about that. So you're frustrated, you're exhausted. Talk me through that.

How are you feeling these days? Physically, I'm feeling fine, and I guess that's maybe the weird part is that I feel like almost the mental part of it kind of hit me later. Like, as I was going through chemotherapy treatments, I was feeling obviously terribly, terrible physically, but maybe I didn't really realize the mental toll of it. And now I almost feel like I'm feeling that part of it once I've come through that, if that makes sense. Absolutely. So you got a gift, and it's not a gift that anybody wants, and it's not a gift that anybody asks for, but you got to lean your head over the other side. Most 18 and 19-year-olds don't get to understand this idea that they are mortal and that tomorrow is not guaranteed for any of us. And when I say gift, man, I hesitate to even use that word because I know what you went through was traumatic and awful. But this sense of anxiety, this low-level hum, this low-level burn of, whoa, man, my body might be attacking itself and I might be

dying, right? You got to experience that, man. And most people don't get to see that, especially your age. Let me ask you this. What are you doing now? Are you going to school? Are you working? Are you living at home in your mom's basement, just playing video games and eating Cheetos? Like, what are you doing? So I've been going to school the whole time during this. I've been going to university the whole time. Okay. And now I'm, it's all online right now, but so I am in my mother's basement, but I'm still doing it.

That's fantastic. So Joe, what do you want to do? Who do you want to become? What do you want to do professionally? What do you want to do? Who do you want to become? What do you want to do professionally? What do you want this cancer to have represented 10 years from now, 15 years from now, 20 years from now? Well, I'm going to school to become a teacher, so that's my goal right now. Love it. As far as what this looks like 10 years from now, I don't know. I guess maybe that me going through something difficult helps me understand other people's difficulties and helps them maybe walk through similar things or trials of their own.

So you're experiencing this thing called grief. And grief is heavy and it's not fun and it sucks. It's just not fun. But it's something that we all go through and that we all experience. And we live in a culture, Brother Joe, that doesn't honor grief, that just tries to wallpaper over it and says, look, man, you're healed. Now go play baseball. And we just try to pass through this natural process. And so in a robust, otherwise healthy 18 to 19 year old body and a guy with

a character like you who wants to go be a teacher, wants to help other people. Dude, when you got this diagnosis and you mentioned this flurry, you were in it. Your body went to fight or flight and dude, it went to war. It battled, and it held up for you, and it held up with the chemo treatments. And my guess is most of the folks who I know who got cancer end up making sure everyone around them is okay most of the time, right? Did you get a lot of calls and texts and oh my goshes, and you ended up having to make sure your mom and dad

or your friends are doing fine. Did that happen to you? Yeah, that's actually kind of a, yeah, a lot of people would like come up to me and be like, how are you doing? And I'm like, I'm doing all right. Yeah, you ended up having to take care of them, right? That's a common thing, yeah. Yeah, it was kind of reassuring them.

Yeah, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the last person you got to really sit down and look in the mirror with and experience this near-death car wreck, which was cancer, was you. And that's what your body's doing right now, man. It is exh level. I hate to use the word because it's so over-dramatized and over-diagnosed. But this low-level depression, this low-level literally depression, things have just gotten mushed down. Because for a year, for two years, you had to push your feelings down. You had to push your fears down. And you had to just go fight cancer. And you had to do what the next doctor said or the next doctor said.

And you had to recover from surgery. You had to recover from chemo. You had to make sure your mom was okay and all your buddies are doing good. And then you start having these little bitty like, what's tomorrow going to be like? When am I going to be quote unquote cancer free? All that stuff, right? And now the smoke is cleared. The surgery's over. You've been given a clean bill. They're going to be watching you every couple of months for the next four or five years. And now your body is starting to settle into this grieving moment. This idea of, whoa, that was close. I had the big C. I had the cancer. I'm 19. It's not supposed to happen like that. And you're right. It's not. Unfortunately, it happens more and more and more. And it happens to anybody at any time. Cancer doesn't play favorites with

anybody. It sucks. It's a demon. It's ugly. But you're on the other side of it. So here's what I want you to do with this idea of grief. And I want you to write yourself a letter congratulating yourself for getting through this moment. I want you to write a letter, Dear Joe, dude, we made it. And I want you to talk about your fears. I want you to talk about your frustrations with this. And I want you to read this letter to one or two of your buddies. I want you to read this letter to some people that you trust. It might even have to be a counselor if you don't have close buddies.

I'm assuming that you do, man. But I want you to read the letter to them just so that you are able to express this and share this with somebody else. And then as you make your way through this grieving process, you're going to find yourself frustrated. You're going to find yourself angry. You're going to find yourself having all these emotions that probably you've never experienced before.

Make sure you've got other people to walk alongside you during this process. You can be vulnerable with. You're going to have great, great days where you really celebrate being well and healed. And you're going to have days when you wake up and you just remember the car wreck. You just remember that diagnosis day, coming out of surgery, looking at your mom and hoping everything's going to be okay.

And then comes the magic part that David Kessler talks about, finding meaning. And over the next two, three, four years, you're going to start wrapping your head around this and figuring out ways that you can support and care and love other people. If it's as a teacher, what a gift, man. You're going to have this idea of empathy for your students moving forward that most teachers don't have. Because most of us don't get to look over the edge and see, oh, man, none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.

We're just not. Most of us don't get to do that until we're older. And you got to look on the other side. So, Joe, I am honored to talk to you. Congratulations on getting through this nightmare scenario. And our thoughts and prayers are with you as you continue to heal and get better. And then, brother, go find meaning, man. After you've grieved this, go find meaning,

go make meaning. It's going to be awesome. All right, let's go to Courtney in Daytona Beach. Courtney, what is up? Hi, how are you? I'm so good. Courtney, how are you? Good. I'm so excited to have this opportunity to speak with you. And me with you. Go for it. What's up? Okay, so I need advice on how to tell my parents that I had a baby that I placed for adoption. And the backstory to that is in December of 2018, I was only 19 years old. I was very unexpected. I found out as I was having him. And so we decided that the best route would be adoption. And that has worked out absolutely beautifully.

I can't complain about that at all. But now I'm kind of stuck in a place where I think I really need to tell them in order to keep moving forward. But my boyfriend isn't as open with it. And so I don't want to really be too disrespectful against like his wishes on the topic. So I'm really like stuck. Wow. There's a lot there. Okay. So number one, thank you for calling. Let's unpack this a little bit. So a couple of years ago, you had a baby, you placed it for adoption and you carry the baby full term, placed it to adoption and baby's doing well. Are you still in contact with the adoptive parents, or is your baby—

Yes, I have a great relationship. I talk to her probably once a week, maybe two weeks, but we have a very good relationship. Wow, how remarkable. And they're good folks, good parents, and you feel wonderful about your baby being there? Yes, I have—my view on it is this was meant to happen. That's just how everything's worked out very well on my side of it. That's, that's incredible. Okay. So is this boyfriend you have the, is that the father of this child or is it somebody new? Okay. So y'all are still together. Yes. How long has, have y'all been together been together? Three years in December.

Three years. Okay, and so why aren't you married yet? Why haven't you just said, dude, this is the guy, let's just call it? I don't know. We've honestly talked about it, but... I don't know. I don't know. I think it really has to do with me because I'm like, I'm teeny young, this and that.

But I have a bunch of, I guess, qualifications of what I think I need to be before I could be married is what it is. Name some of them for me. I honestly want my debt paid off, which I know is like, you can do it together. But I also, I'm not even, I'm only 20 now. He's a little bit older. I feel like you need a house for him to be in the position to buy a house together. Just little stuff like that, which I know isn't true, but that's what I think hinders it. So those things are all real, but you've kind of knocked everything out of order because you have those three things and then you have a kid, right? And so y'all went out of order there.

So as a couple, y'all have experienced a lot of things that most couples experience after they've committed to one another for the rest of their lives. How did he feel about this adoption? Um, he kind of, you know, he was very supportive and he was there for me and he still has been, but I think over time it's been a harder for him than it has been for me. Like I've coped with it very well and he, I don't think has like, it's, we don't really talk about it. It's been harder for him than it has been for me. Like I've coped with it very well. And he, I don't think has like, it's, we don't really talk about it. It's kind of uncomfortable to talk about with him, which it's like, kind of makes me sad because I find it to be such a happy thing. Like if, you know, if it had to happen, take the time, the joy in it and kind of go with

it. And I feel like for him, it's a little bit harder. How is he struggling? What does harder mean? I just, he doesn't talk about it. I'll get pictures printed out or I got in preparation of telling my parents, I ordered a photo book and I was like, here you go, that's one step closer and he still hasn't looked at it. And I think it's just hard because he's about, he's in his late 20s. So I think for him, it's more like I should have been ready. I should have been at the age type of thing.

So he is probably experiencing quite a bit of shame. I had a child in my mid to late 20s and I wasn't quote unquote man enough to take care of that kid. Yeah, I think that's exactly what it is because he also doesn't reach, like he's, we're all friendly with the parents, but he doesn't go out of his way to like reach out to them. His thing is, you know, if they want to talk to me, they can send me a message. It's not like in a bad way, but I think it is. He just doesn't like to.

It sounds pretty immature. I mean, yeah, it sounds pretty immature for somebody who created a human, right? And again, that goes, that's the responsibility of hooking up is the result is you could have a human life, right? And then you've got to be able to deal with that, right? So yeah, it sounds like he's going through a lot. Here's my thought here. So he's, how long did you say he's 28? Yeah. Okay. So I want to back out. A 26-year-old hooked up with an 18-year-old, and y'all had a kid. And I don't want to minimize the magic lovemaking experience that a 26-year-old and an 18-year-old are going through, but y'all hooked up, and you had a kid. And you did a noble and remarkable thing, and you blessed a family with that beautiful baby.

And they're doing great, and you are able to see that for the blessing that it is. Good for you. When it comes to telling your parents, you're not married to this dude, you'll have been dating for a while. You're not married to this guy. And so I'm going to tell you, he didn't get a vote. And if this secret between you and your family is hanging there like a giant weight around your neck, which I'm confident that it is. It's my opinion that secrets kill people. They drown people. And I would recommend talking to your folks. There's not going to be a cute way to do this or a, you know, like making a book or this isn't going to be a fun, beautiful conversation. This is going to be one of those conversations that you let your parents

know ahead of time, we need to have a hard talk and that we're going to have a hard conversation and I'm going to need you and mom and dad and y'all to be direct and paying attention to me and then we're going to go have breakfast somewhere. Just let them know. I want you to know

they're going to be devastated. They're going to be heartbroken. Not that there is a grandkid that they don't know about. That will be a thing. Here's what they're going to be devastated about. That their baby girl went through something so hard and they weren't there for them. They were there for you. Does that make sense? Yeah. No, I've spoken to some of my older siblings about it and they said the same thing. They're like, they're not going to be mad at you. Cause I was like, are they going to be mad? And they're like, no, they're going to be, you know, probably disappointed or upset that they didn't find out sooner. Yeah, they're going to be disappointed that they didn't walk with you through this journey, right?

It's a magical transformation, and then the babies, all the stuff, right? And they're going to probably say things like, well, we would have helped, and now they're going to deal with somebody else raising, in their mind, their grandkid, right? And that their teenage daughter had to make this heavy, heavy decision all on their own. But here's the thing. It is what it is. So I want you to not go into this conversation with any sort of fantasy, any sort of mythological, there's going to be confetti come down, everybody's going to hug and they're going to, it's just going to be a hard conversation.

Gear yourself up for it. But the hard conversation is still the right conversation. And it sounds like you're tired of the secret. And I'm telling you right now is no matter how hard this conversation goes, you're going to feel a burden lifted off your heart and your soul. It's definitely hard. I feel like I'm living like two lives because I get pictures, I get updates and it's like, no matter how hard this conversation goes, you're going to feel a burden lifted off your heart and your soul. It's definitely hard. I feel like I'm living like two lives because I get pictures,

I get updates, and it's like I can't share that with them, and I find so much joy in it. That's exactly right. I feel like it's in a way, too, to know that I did make the right choice because I have such an involvement still, and it's not like I made this decision and then I never heard about it again. That's right. Would your adoptive parents, are they open to your parents visiting? We've kind of discussed it and she left it, the mom left it too. If he ever asked about them, he would be the one to do it. She wouldn't want to push it on him. Okay. I think that's really wise and good for her.

Yeah, it looks like you picked a wonderful family. So the challenge for your parents is they're going to want to see the baby, and they're going to want to see their likeness represented in their grandkids. There's just going to be a piece of their heart out running around in the universe that they can't see and hug and touch, right? And so just know that's going to be hard, but also know that it's, again, it's the right conversation to have. And so here's the steps in order. Number one, I would

let them know ahead of time, don't just show up at their house one afternoon and drop a bomb on them. Let them know, hey, we need to have a hard conversation and I'm going to come to your house and we're going to do this, or we're going to go get pancakes together and we're going to have this hard conversation. You know what they're going to think? They're going to think that you're pregnant now. And they're going to think that you need to have a quick shotgun wedding with this older guy that they may or may not like. They're not going to be expecting that you already had a baby and the baby is one and a half or two years old and doing well with an adoptive family. So you're going to surprise them, understand they're going to be heartbroken. They're going

to, they're going to cry. And that doesn't mean what you did is, is not the right thing. And then be willing to be willing to heal that relationship with your parents. They're going to feel like they let you down. They're going to feel like you let them know. It's just going to be messy. It's just going to be messy and messy and hard. Doesn't mean it's the wrong thing. You're going to have to grieve this with your parents. Here's the deal. Your parents had a picture in their head of what the grandkid was going to be like, the first grandkid, and they've imagined it. They're going to imagine themselves as buying all this shenanigans for this baby, right? And coming over and they're going to have to reframe their picture. They're going to have to grieve it. They're going to have to grieve this new world that they're in, that you're going to just drop on them at a Denny's at nine o'clock on some Saturday morning. You're going to have to grieve a new relationship with your parents. You're also going to have to grieve a transitioning relationship with this guy. You're 20, he's 28, he's almost got

a decade on you. At some point, you're going to have to decide this is the guy for me or not. He's going to have to deal with the grief of his child. He's going to have to deal with the grief of I should have been there. I should have raised my own kid, and I didn't. And that doesn't mean that was the wrong thing, but he's going to have his own thoughts. And the more he hides from that stuff, the deeper that wound is going to get, the more that infection is going to fester. And it's just going to end up spraying all the people he loves too. So he's going to have to do his own work. And so I keep talking about the first two calls here. I've talked about grief and I've talked

about grief and I've talked about grief really quickly. Let's talk about grief for a second. Kubler-Ross came up with this model years and years ago, back in the late 60s, early 70s. She wrote this book on death and dying, and it was really a discussion. This book was a discussion of the five stages of grief she came up with, and they are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. So when somebody dies in your life, you deny it. Then you get angry, You get pissed off. And then you start bargaining with God.

You start bargaining with the people around you. I'll be nicer if – and then you go through this depression. You just get in that black hole of grief that if anyone is – if you've lost somebody, you know what I'm talking about. And then you get to the acceptance stage where you start to re-bloom. You start to regrow. You just realize this is what this is. And we often think about, you know, death. That's the thing that we grieve, right?

Kubler-Ross, these stages were initially designed for people who weren't grieving the losses of loved ones or broken relationships. It was designed for people who were grieving their own impending death. She was with people who were dying. And then in 2019, David Kessler, who studied with her, I think he was one of her research assistants, he wrote one of my top five most important books of my life. He wrote, it's called Finding Meaning, the Sixth Stages of Grief.

And we'll put that in the show notes here. We'll put both these books in the show notes. But if you have to pick up one book over the next few months, pick up Finding Meaning by David Kessler. Especially in these times, it's a remarkable book on grief is so much bigger than somebody's dying or you died. Grief is about any sort of what you thought was going to happen is not going to happen, right? You thought you were going to be an astronaut. It didn't work out that way. You thought you were going to meet some romantic prince and he turned out to be an abusive jerk.

You thought that my picture of my first grandkid is going to be this, we're going to hold this baby and it's going to be an easy birth. And my daughter's going to be healthy. And she's going to, the father of his child is going to be this wonderful guy and he's going to be there. And then all of a sudden you find out that your first grandkid was adopted underneath you. You didn't know. And it's somewhere else. All of those things are grief. It's just that the picture you thought was going to be your tomorrow has changed. And the longer we go through life, not acknowledging that the more it festers within us, there becomes a gap. And we fill that gap with all kinds of addictive behaviors, busyness, numbing behaviors, drinking, all kinds of crazy things we run around,

right? And so what Kessler brings to the table here is after acceptance, right? After you just make peace with it, that's not enough. There's this next step, this sixth step, and that is, what are you going to do as a result of, right? Are you going to become an advocate for adoptive families? Are you going to be an advocate for parents having great relationships with their teenage kids so that they feel safe to come home and talk to you? Are you going to become somebody who is really involved in AA because you lost a loved one to alcoholism or drug abuse? Whatever the thing is, how are you going to make meaning? How are you going to transform your heart and the hearts of those around you because you went through this, right? And an important thing about these stages is

they're not linear, right? Sometimes people die and you get angry and then you deny it and then you go into the black hole or somebody passes away and you go into the black hole or you just randomly get dumped and whoosh, you feel like you have just been stuck underwater. Eventually, you begin to breathe again if you've got people walking alongside you. Eventually, you get to exhale again. If you've got people walking alongside you, eventually you get to exhale again. The sun comes up. The buds that were broken off begin to bloom. The world turns green again. And here's the thing. Here's a great quote from this Kessler book. Here it is. When we are grieving, we want to stay in the harbor. It's a good place to be for a while. It's where we refuel, rebuild, repair. But in the same way ships are meant to sail, we are meant to eventually leave our safe harbor to take the risk of loving again, to find new adventures, to live a life

after loss, and maybe even to help another, right? This is what finding meaning is about. This is what stopping. We thought 2020 was going to be this thing and this thing and this thing and this thing. It's not. I thought I was going to get to have this awesome new job promotion and I'm not.

I'm homeschooling my kid. I've got a bandana on that I take off just for this Zoom meeting and then I put it back on. I've just got to grieve what I thought was going to be so that I can come to the present and deal with what's now. And then over time, I'm going to accept where I'm at.

I'm going to sometimes bite down on my mouthpiece and just go in swinging. Other times, I'm going to let the things go that I can't control. And over time, we're going to make meaning. We're going to make meaning and we're going to continue to live the story the best way that we can.

So thank you so, so much for that call, Courtney. I'll be thinking about you. I would love, love, love, Courtney, call me back after that conversation with your folks. If all three of you want to call me back, I'd love to talk to your parents too. I want to hear how that conversation goes. I want to hear how y'all work together

to make a plan for tomorrow. Thank you so, so much for the call. Let's take one more call. Let's go to Jessica in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Jessica, how are you? Hi, John. I'm good. How are you?

Outstanding, outstanding. How can I help? Hi. So I am calling because I have a sibling, a brother, that basically came home from college with a mental breakdown. It's now been five and a half years. He's been living with my parents and basically is making their life hell. Oh, man.

The rest of the siblings and I have talked about possibly doing like an intervention because my parents don't know how to set boundaries with them and just telling them how we feel about the situation because we also feel like we're losing them. So I just thought I'd give you a call and see if you had any advice, if that's even something we should do, if we should just sit back and watch this unfold for the next who knows how long, or if we should tell them how we feel and maybe help them with some resources. Yeah. So tell me when you say mental breakdown five and a half years ago, was it just a anxiety fit? I don't like taking tests. Is he schizophrenic? Like paint me a picture of that. Uh, well, he basically, he was working and doing school a lot

and didn't sleep. And so mentally couldn't take all of the pressure, um, misbehaved a little bit, not terrible, but the school basically released him to, you can go home. We don't need you to finish your semester. And then found out through various different things that he does have some mental health disorders. He has a personality disorder, like borderline. And he does have anxiety and depression on top of that. That's been medicated, but this summer he went to chase this girl who didn't like him on his medication. And so now we've seen a decline in his mental health, as well as there's a lot of guilt on my parents' part. He went through some medical trauma earlier in his life. And so I think they feel like they have to provide him whatever he wants. Yeah. So here's the thing. You're right on. You and your brothers and sisters are right on.

There comes a point when our loved ones, our brother, our sister, sometimes it's our dad or our mom. There comes a moment when our loved one becomes a grown man who's making my mom cry. Right? And yes, he's my brother. Yes, I love him. Yes, he's got some challenges. Yes, he went through some nonsense, some crap as a kid. But right now, he's a 25-year-old or 26-year-old who's breaking up my parents' marriage, who is keeping my dad from sleeping a full night of sleep, who is playing my mom like an accordion

and making my mom's hair turn gray and making her cry. And there is a moment as a parent. Do you have kids of your own? Yes. Okay, so I'm just talking to you parent to parent here. And there is a moment as a parent. Do you have kids of your own? Yes. Okay. So, you know, I'm just talking to you parent to parent here. There's moments when we get so far down our own rabbit hole trying to care for our kids that we lose the forest from the trees, right? And what a – I like your word.

What an intervention can do for your parents is let them know that they're not alone. You and your brothers and sisters can pull them out of whatever river they're drowning in, help dry them off, and then offer them some resources. But probably the most important resource you're going to offer them is that you've got their back, right? That you love them. You support them. You're going to teach them how to draw boundaries. You're going to support whatever boundaries they draw. And that might have ugly consequences for your brother for a season, right? And people with borderline personality disorder, they are brilliant and lovely and hilarious and hellacious to work with.

Because you are the greatest person who has ever lived until you are the worst person who has ever lived, right? Exactly. Mom and dad are the most wonderful people until they have ruined my life and you guys suck and I hate you. And I'm just going to quit digging my meds and go off because she loves me more. And this girl is going to be the greatest girl who ever lived until she's not, right? downs of folks who are on borderline personality disorder and don't work really, really hard to come to terms with these rollercoaster fireball emotions that rage through their bodies. And so, yes, at the end of the day, you need to get your parents out of a burning house and they need to hear love and support from you and from your siblings. My recommendation for that would be to let them know, hey, we're going to set up a time

that we all want to meet, whether that's in person or because of the current medical climate, we're going to do a Zoom meeting. And somebody that they trust, there's always that one sibling that kind of takes the lead. It might be you that they said, hey, call the knucklehead on the radio and see what he has to say. But whoever the brother or sister is that has their trust the most can call in and say, listen, we love you. And you've got to start drawing some boundaries because we're worried about you and mom. We're worried about you and dad.

And we love you. And we don't want to see our brother hurting y'all anymore. So how does that hit you? It's just validation, I think, because we've been watching this unfold for the last five years, so we feel like we've lost something, too, with our parents, that they're so focused on him and unable to see how it's hurting everyone else. Well, and here's the thing. Beware of this. After five and a half years, caring for their hurting son has become an identity for your parents.

They have found meaning in their hurt, and they have found meaning in their pain. For parents who, like you said, he had medical trauma as a kid. He's probably experienced some hard things as a kid. Sometimes this lashing that parents subject themselves to, especially with their adult kids, when they won't draw boundaries, there's some weird, ugly, tiny demon in the back of their hearts and minds that say you deserve this. This is because of. And so expect some resistance. Expect some, yeah, but somebody needs – like, expect that, and just know going in, all four of you, is there four, there's four of you, right, that y'all go in as a united front that says, mom and dad, this is enough. This is enough, and we're going to help you draw boundaries.

So, whatever resources y'all can come up with, either locally for him, really the boundaries for a 25-year-old are going to be, you've got three months and then you're out. And then some, y'all need to rotate going to visit mom and dad or calling mom and dad and letting them know that when they get this torrent of borderline response, which is going to be, you're going to make me homeless. You're the worst. You're throwing me out of my ear.

You don't care about me. You don't love me. All that stuff, partridge in a pear tree, that your parents are constantly being filled up. You're holding their arms up in the desert as they're desperate for water, and you're helping them out and get through this season. And then they've got to kick them out. They've got to change their locks on the house if it gets to that. Probably he'll throw a temper tantrum and take off, and then they're going to have to hold boundaries. And the boundaries might be when you get a job, we'll help you out. If you need support buying your medication, if you can show us that

you're on your medication, we'll help you out, whatever that's going to look like. But I trust you and your brothers and sisters do that. But yeah, 100%, you've got my blessing. Y'all need to step in, help your mom and dad out of the river. They're drowning. They've made an identity out of treading water and it's time for folks who love them to step in and help. What a great call. Thank you so much. Jessica, you're a saint, and you and your brothers and sisters are awesome. I'd love to know how that conversation goes, so please call me back.

Let me know how the intervention goes, how your parents take it, if they take it well. If they don't take it well, I'd love to hear how they are doing. So as we wrap up today's show, here's the thing. I talk a lot about the greatest band this, the greatest band that, and now I'm starting to get the direct messages and the Instagrams and the YouTube comments saying like, oh, I do get the joke. So I haven't been totally honest. Sometimes I have, sometimes I haven't. This is for real. This is for real. I think these are a few of the greatest songwriters working today, and I mean this, and if you know who they are, hope you can hear the sincerity in my voice. I'll be back to being a clown on the next in a way that only they can.

This is one of the greatest songs literally ever written. And every time I hear it, I have to stop and catch myself because I'll get choked up a little bit. This is from the Gleam 2 record. It's written by the Avett Brothers and it's called Murder in the City. And the words go like this. If I get murdered in the city, don't go revenging in my name. One person dead from such is plenty. No need to go get locked away.

When I leave your arms, the things that I think of, no need to get over alarmed. I'm coming home. If I get murdered in the city, go read the letter in my desk. I'm getting goosebumps now. Don't bother with all my belongings. Pay attention to the list. Make sure my sister knows I loved her. God almighty, I get choked up every time.

Make sure my sister knows I loved her. Make sure my mother knows the same. Always remember there was nothing worth sharing like the love that let us share our name. Always remember there was nothing worth sharing like the love that let us share our name. Always remember there was nothing worth sharing like the love that let us share our name. This is the Dr. John Deloney Show. Thank you.