The Dr. John Delony Show - Should He Be Taking Female Clients to Dinner?

Episode Date: June 21, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A woman struggling with her boyfriend’s relationships with female clients - A man hoping to soften his cynical outlook on life - A woman desperate to solve the combustive communication issues in her marriage Lyrics of the Day: "The Light" - Disturbed  Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I survived a suicide attempt about seven years ago. I feel like it connects to me being more cynical about the world, and I want to change that. But you haven't touched the core issue. Why is there a ticker tape on the story of your life that runs underneath everything that goes on in your world. What is going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Show about your relationships and your mental health and your marriage and whatever else you got going on. Your kids, summer vacation, whatever it is. I'm here to walk alongside you. This show is about real people going through real things in real time. And I promise that I'm going to sit with you.

I'm going to tell the truth and we're going to figure out what we're going to do next. So you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. Don't forget, best supplements on the planet, in my opinion, and only in my opinion. Go to Thorne, T-H-O-R-N-E, thorne.com slash U, the letter U, slash Deloney for 25% off. All right, let's go out to Detroit and talk to Bea. What is up, Bea? Hi, John. How's it going?

I'm doing incredible. How are you? Oh, good. Just wonderful. Just wonderful. Good. Great. Grand. Good. I'm glad you're doing wonderful. What's up? How can I help? Okay. So I just started dating this awesome guy. Um, we've almost been dating for like five months. Um, he's super into his career and getting it going. He's 28. Um, and recently he was away on a business trip for about two weeks.

And he told me that he might, um, in the future on the future business trip, have to take girls out to dinner to secure business deals. And I was like, I don't like that. So, so I guess my question is, is it, is it normal for this kind of thing to happen in the business world? If you're in sales to like take, I mean, I know men like take other men out to dinner to like secure sales and stuff and like buy them dinner. But I didn't know that like guys took girls out too.

So yeah, it's, it's, there's a whole host of things here. I'm interested. What was his response when you said, Hey, that makes me uncomfortable. Um, I have my email pulled up because okay so i he said it was strictly about business um and he didn't understand that i was upset um he said that he felt like it was a trust thing and i needed to trust him um and he said he thought that i was being overly dramatic and like bringing insecurity baggage into our relationship. Um, so yeah. All right.

Lots of things here. Give me one or two direct questions. Cause there's a lot going on here. Um, well, what we're trying to figure out is he, he doesn't understand why I'm upset for him taking like a girl from his like customer, like one of the places he's at, one of the customers that's a girl taking her out, like if she's a client, to dinner and like buying her dinner and that she's them two one-on-one. Yeah. So to answer your question, yes, it is common. Happens all the time.

Colleagues go out. And, you're not crazy. Not even a tiny little bit. Okay. So, I did, I did,

I did this all the time in my former life when I was in academics, but it was with academic colleagues. And 100% of the time, I texted my wife and let her know. And I texted my wife when it was over.

Not ever going to cheat on my wife. But man, it was important for, I didn't ever want someone to come up to her and be like, hey, I saw John with so-and-so. I saw him with this woman at lunch today. That's what I'm worried about. Well, hold on. So number one, there was always that level of communication.

There was never any, and that was me trying to honor my wife. Okay. And there was a reality to the business I was in. And it made for problems. I ended up really, really liking spending time with people that were not my wife. I craved their laughing at my jokes. I crave them wanting to hang out. Right. So it was not smart on my part. And so I think it's wise. And also, let me just say this.

We live in a world, unfortunately, where there's been a shift in guilty until proven innocent. So if somebody walks away from some of these exchanges and just says, hey, this person offered me this, said this, it can create some mess. And so now I just always have somebody with me. That's just a personal thing on my end. And I know I can get grief like that I'm not being equitable and that I'm treating people differently. I'm trying to be wise for me, for my wife, for my family, for my business wisdom globally. And I've never ever had a, what I would call a sales experience or a client interaction that wasn't bolstered by having somebody else in the room. I've just never had that. So that's number one.

And number two, it does cause problems. Here's the bigger issue for me. I know I have friends of mine, dear friends, close, great friends that are women that wouldn't care one, like two days from Sunday, if their husband was out doing sales calls, women wouldn't even, wouldn't even think about it. Yeah. What do you enter their mind. And I've got friends who are like you. Makes them very uncomfortable. That my husband's gone for two weeks or my boyfriend's gone for two weeks in four states over. And every night of the week, he's with the same or one or two women. Like, they feel uncomfortable by that.

Here's my concern for your relationship right now. That after receiving how you feel about something, the guy that you started this call by saying he's an awesome guy, he's so great and so wonderful, immediately made you stupid for having a feeling. And I don't like that at all. You're allowed to have your feelings. And if it makes you uncomfortable, then as somebody who honors you and wants to be with you for a long time

and treat you with dignity and respect, he is going to look at his environment and see if there are ways that he can honor the person he's saying he loves. See what I'm saying? Yeah, that makes sense. And so I don't, like, whether it's right or wrong, I have the way I choose to do it now.

That's just me. I also am not going to beat anybody else up. You're going to make your own decisions. I think I've put myself in situations that weren't wise, and it's just, I have some pretty clear boundaries now. So be it. What I'm more concerned with your relationship is you said, hey, I'm uncomfortable with this.

Hey, I don't like this. And he said, you're stupid. And B, you're not. Yeah. Can I ask you a harder question? Okay. You have other trust issues in this relationship, no? Yeah, I guess. Yeah yeah yeah exactly what are they where does it where does it come from um i don't think i have to be worried about it but

it just makes me feel uncomfy but her one of his good friends um they were friends with benefits like a couple months before we started dating and she keeps asking him to hang out and she asked him to like move in for the week in July and he didn't like immediately say no to her. He was in the, I didn't know if he was like going to really tell me about it. I just kind of saw the text come up on his iPad while we were watching a show together. Um, I don't think he would ever do anything. He's never given me a reason not to

trust him, but it's just her being, he just goes out with other women on, on, on work trips. This isn't like a work trip friend. That's like one of his friends. No, no. You just said he never gives me reasons to not trust him except the whole reason you called me is because you're having trust, trust concerns. Yeah. So I, I, I, you called and so, um, I am not inserting myself into this conversation. I, I'm, I, I just want to be super clear. I think there's other things going on in this relationship. Uh. And I, I have no, only thing I have to base that on is a couple of data points.

And maybe I talked to him and he was just like a lug head. Who's just like, oh, what? Y'all are five, you're five months in and it feels like he's got one foot in and he has still got another foot out of the boat. That's how I've been feeling.

Okay. A little bit. Yeah. Not a little bit. You've been feeling it a lot. And for some reason, you minimize your feelings. Has that been happening to your whole life

that people, you say, I feel this way and people say you're stupid? Not that I'm stupid, but that I'm overly sensitive. I'm overreacting. Do you overreact? I don't think I do. I usually have to ask people if I'm overreacting because I'm not really sure.

Okay. So I want you to get two or three women in your life that you trust deeply. Yeah. And if you feel your heart beating faster or you feel that burn inside your chest, I want you to reach out to one of them. And you know why?

Because I do this because I'm overreactive things. I get extra mad or extra my feelings hurt. So I want you to have a couple of people in your pocket that you can ask as you are learning your own body. But let me tell you this. Somebody told you a long time ago to stop listening to B. And I want you to never do that again. I want you to listen to what your body's trying to tell you. And if you've been dating a guy for five months

and he's the best guy in the whole world, but he's also still keeping up with an old girlfriend that he used to hook up with regularly or old friend that he used to hook up with regularly just a few months before y'all were together. And he's taking women out and not that he's doing business and trying to do sales, but that he makes you feel stupid.

He tries to turn the whole thing back on you. I don't know why you don't trust me. What's the deal? He turns it all back on you without saying, yeah, I can see that. I think you should trust your gut. Something does not feel right. And if he wants to call me, I'd be happy to talk to him. Not like in a, yeah, bro, not that kind of way, but something doesn't feel right. Something doesn't feel right and at some point soon i think you need to have a very come to be conversation and put is there infidelity in this relationship on the table is there um gaslighting going on in this relationship here is what i feel be very very very clear about what i feel and more importantly, what I need.

And if he can't provide that for you, cool. He may not be the guy for you. In fact, he won't be the guy for you. This isn't a call about sales calls between men and women. That's not the call. The call is you have a guy that you love who has said he loves you and he's 100% dismissive of how

you're experiencing your relationship with him. That's the red flag. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes, and if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings.

We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves.

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Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. Let's go to Ann Arbor, Michigan and talk to Colin. What's up, Colin? I'm doing pretty okay. I'm just finished up walking with my daughter. I got my second cup of coffee. I got my notebook and I'm just really honored to be here talking to you. Dude, that sounds like almost the perfect morning, man. Fantastic. So what's up, dude? So I'll start with my question. I'm coming in pretty hot. I survived a suicide attempt about seven years ago. I feel like it connects to me being more cynical about the world. And I want to change that.

Well, thanks for calling, man. How many little ones do you have? I just got one. I got a baby girl who's nine months old and it's, it's the best. That's cool. Um, are you able to talk about what happened seven years ago? Yeah. Tell me about it.

So at the time I was in my, well, to give you a quick, I'll quickly tell you where I'm at now. I'm 29, been married for 4 years I adore my wife I have this 9 month old beautiful baby girl and as we enter our 30s as we purchase our first home I just don't

I'm mostly calling about this event and my cynicism to hopefully change my outlook and not have it rub off on this sweet baby girl and my wife. So I, seven years ago, I would say, honestly, I've had on paper, for the most part, a pretty normal, successful time as a 20-something. So got my bachelor's degree, got my master's degree. But the kind of blip, which I would say more so is an explosion on that timeline,

is this suicide attempt. So it was Easter morning, actually, and I,, at the time was in a pretty toxic relationship, um, was wrestling some with my faith. Uh, I would say I'm a strong Christian believer now, but certainly had my time of deconstructing and reconstructing and all that. So that was pretty hairy. And, um, just really wrestling with identity, feeling enough. Um, and that, that morning, that relationship ended, uh, I was actually on my way to, to church and decided instead to take a left in my car, go the other way, found a parking lot, just felt this immense emptiness. And kind of something you probably don't hear every day when it comes to suicide attempts, but I'm a type 1 diabetic. And I just decided to load up on insulin and try to overdose that way and end things.

Sent out a conventional, you could say, message to family and friends. Hey, I just did this. And then kind of went on a drive around town while my phone blew up and I was eventually found, uh, in a grocery parking lot, still completely conscious and fine and rushed to the ER. And thankfully before all of this happened, or I guess before things got bad, uh, I should say they were able to balance out my blood sugar. You can stop me at any time. Well, I'm just trying to get a picture of trying to listen for how you're telling the story.

Did you have a history of this before? I didn't. That's the thing. Like it was kind of a snap decision. I don't want to hurt anymore. I'm sick of the world. And you have a, you have an opportunity right there with you.

Yeah. And did you ever go into a coma? I didn't hear what you said. No, I didn't. I, the hospital for, I don't know what happened cause it was so overwhelming,

but they, uh, they, they got things fixed and then I was sent away for, the hospital for I don't know what happened because it was so overwhelming but they they got things fixed and then I was sent away for you know a week or so and

have you had any sort of suicidality since then an idea of of heading out again zero

okay so you've done a lot of work over the last few years huh i have uh yeah i would say i would say i'm a very introspective reflective guy um i think that though is kind of what got me into that situation was getting two in my head. Yeah, that's fair. But you haven't touched the core issue. Why is there a ticker tape on the story of your life that runs underneath everything that goes on in your world? It says, I'm a piece of crap.

Where does that come from? Because you've done a lot of work on relationships and you've done a lot of work on faith and you've done a lot of work on relationships, and you've done a lot of work on faith, and you've done a lot of work on doing the right things, and you've probably become pretty disciplined in your life. You have not addressed the core issue, man. You just have this meta-narrative, dude, that you suck. Where is that from by the way this has nothing to do with a suicide attempt

go back and listen to the call like when you get done like this is about how you talk about your wife you talk about your daughter you think you're a burden to them where does that come from why do you think they are worse off because you're a burden to them. Mm-hmm. Where does that come from? Why do you think they are worse off because you're in their life?

Because it's not true. Where does that come from? I would say it's a great question and I'm trying to think through. Hold on. You are, have created a force field around your life

with your intellect and your ability to construct and deconstruct ideas and situations and people and religions and all that stuff. And it provides you a force field from having to do one scary thing and that is actually feel something. So I don't want you thinking about it and going down what's the right words and what's the right thing where did you get this story you know the answer

um i i would say did you grow up in a super religious household? I did not, quite the opposite. I mean, my, I'm the only believer in my family. Uh, it was never something, I mean, I never heard about any of it until, like, I didn't hear about faith or, um, Christianity until high school. So I didn't find out until after the fact that my parents disagreed with that and didn't buy into that. I'm also a middle child for what that's worth.

I am too. We're all kind of a little bit messed up. A little bit messed up. Here's the thing. here's the thing here's the thing cynicism is a bulletproof vest that you put on to head into your day so that you don't have to feel and it protects you from shame protects you from looking at that nine-year-old little girl and being scared about the economy or whether china is going to invade or whatever the news is telling you the next tragedy du jour is and there's a helpless feeling when you hold your

first baby there's a helpless feeling that nobody talks about because it's either Andrew Tate flexing or it's this passive nonsense. And in the middle is the rest of us who's newly married three or four years in. And this woman hugs us on a couch with a sense they lean a couch with a sense, they lean on you with a weight that says,

I put my hands in your life. And that has nothing to do with who's making the most money in the house, how you're splitting up chores. It's just a responsibility that every man I know feels at some shape, form or fashion. And it's really, really heavy. And our dads didn't tell us that. Yeah. And it's, I would say it's, it's pretty exhausting. Like, cause I don't want to be cynical. Like I don't,

I don't want that for my, the, these women in my home. No, no, no, bro. I don't want that for these women in my home. No, no, no, bro. I don't want it for you. That too. I don't want it for you. And if you do things for them like that all the time, at some point you run out of gas, which is why it's so counterintuitive when I tell you the path out of this is you have to say as an identity, a new identity for Colin, I reject cynicism. I'm not going there. It's a waste of my time and it destroys me and my family. If you were to ask me of what I think is the most profound psychological finding of the last hundred years, I could talk to you about Amos Tversky.

You talked about Kahneman, all the greats, but it would come back to one thing that has impacted me personally the most. And that's from Martin Seligman who does a lot of work on positive psychology. And basically the, the study of psychology has always been what's the pathology, what's wrong with somebody. And Martin came in and goes, why don't we look at what's right?

Because there's a whole bunch of things that are right with people, but there's just one or two things that people are struggling with. What if we spend our energy working on what's right? And through some of his experiments, what he came to uncover that has greatly impacted me is this. We all thought, psychologically speaking, for 100 or 200 or maybe thousands of years, I haven't dug into it that far, but that certain people were Eeyores. They're just born that way. And certain people were just like, ah, hey, they were just joyful people. And the rest

of us fell on some sort of spectrum. What Seligman comes back and suggests is that optimism is a learned behavior. Pessimism and cynicism is a learned behavior. And when anyone says the words learned behavior to me, I exchange learned behavior with choice. I choose to look at the most cosmic negative way I can look at something. Or we all know people who someone goes, hey, man, the economy is about to go down. And they're like, oh, my gosh, it's because of the Republicans and the Democrats. We've got to get a freezer and we've got to plant a garden. It's all coming down.

And there's those friends that we have that are like, there's going to be a recession. And they smile real big and they're like, dude, we're going to make millions. That's not an operating system. It's a learned behavior. It's a choice. And so by you saying, I reject cynicism, I'm going to choose optimism. I'm going to choose joy. And by the way, optimism, I mean, cynicism and pessimism, that's our culture's wisdom these days. You and me could probably go round and round over drinks and have a blast. And you would probably run circles around me deconstructing faith because you've been there.

And cynicism and pessimism and, oh, yeah, what about this? What about this? That is what our culture calls wisdom these days and i wholeheartedly reject that it's nonsense it's nonsense and so the only path forward is number one you gotta write 22 year old colin a letter and forgive him for scaring you to death you gotta you to let that dude off the hook, man. He made a rash decision. He freaked out.

He has heartbroken on Easter morning. He was exhausted and didn't want to hurt anymore. And he reached over and grabbed the one thing he had, which is insulin pump and tried to walk out on it. Right? Yeah. And then you got to look at 29 year old, 28 year old Colin and say, dude, we're going to practice optimism and we're going to reject cynicism. And that means you can be optimistic and heartbroken. You can be optimistic and scared to death.

You can be optimistic and really frustrated. But that's different than feeling like my wife when you hold your baby or you hold your wife and you think, I'm so sorry y'all are stuck with me. Tell me if I'm right or if I'm wrong. You're dead on. Um, I, I mean, relate to so much of what you just said. And there's like two types of people I can relate to. I have, I have great, that's the thing. That's what's so frustrating up to this point. Like, like you said, how you described me as disciplined, um, doing a lot of work is absolutely true.

Uh, I have great community, like awesome men in my life. I know, but you're the guy, you're the guy in those men

that is the architect of the conversations because that's how you, that's how you defend yourself. I'm only laughing because, I mean, you're just putting language to, you're absolutely right. Yes, that's, I'm only laughing because you're dead on.

So for the next three weeks, next three months, when you hang out with those dudes, you can't say anything. What you can do is when somebody says they're struggling with something, they're heartbroken about something. That you look at them, and if you want to be really intentional and weird, put your hand on their shoulder and say, hey, man, thank you for sharing that. Period. No other words. And what you're going to find is the identity you had as the guy with the answers and the guy with all of the, oh yeah, whatever.

Because here's the deal. Guys like you and me who build these webs of intelligence to protect ourselves, we don't have any thoughts of our own. We don't have any values of our own because our only value is making sure you can't ever sit still on your value because I've got a way to pull it apart. And I'm a few years ahead of you. I'm telling you, you hit a brick wall because when you're anchorless and you have no value anchored in other than I'm the smartest guy in the room, or I can pull this guy's argument apart or I can pull this guy's argument apart. Then a nine-month-old little girl looks at you and says, daddy, what's right? Your wife looks at you and says,

hey, can we create a set of values for this home? And your inside knows my only value is, well, they're dumb and that's not something you can build a home on. And so practicing optimism, practicing what, and that sounds all Kumbaya. Here's what I mean.

Hey, quit watching the news. Just turn it off. Just stop. Number two, read fiction for a while. You need to detox from, dun, dun, dun, turn podcasts off for a while. Even mine. And mine's incredible, by the way. Just kidding. But you got to detox from info because what you do is you listen to an hour podcast like this, you take two of the lines and then you use that to spread amongst right is that fair yeah okay

instead start practicing feeling valuable just because your presence just because you're there and what you're going to be surprised is that people value colin because colin showed up not because value colin listens to obscure podcasts that nobody's heard of yeah and can wrap circles around penal substitutionary atonement and all the you can just do all that right

you know all those things and they don't man Colin has value the only path forward man is you gotta learn to feel and this is the pot talking to the kettle here I'm practicing this as we speak it's hard

do you have can i i've been on antidepressants since that a suicide attempt and there's days where i i'll forget to take them, and I just, like, bawl. Like, it's like this whole world has opened up of feeling, and I'm also afraid to go off of them, though. Yeah. It's been seven years. Yeah.

I took sleep medications for seven years six seven years and I was terrified to get off terrified and I spent months being unable to sleep scary totally get it totally get it

what I would tell you is at some point you sit down with your doctor and with your counselor or psychiatrist and you say I'm ready to enter into a new phase of my life where I need to come up with some scaffolding,

some structure. And we're going to do this real, real, real slow. But I want to learn to feel. And I want to learn some strategies for feeling. And that means they're going to have

some really clear suicide plan in case that feeling or that urge comes up again. And you're going to have to commit before me and your doctors and practitioners and your friends and family

and God that you will call and you will not take your life? Mm-hmm. Do you commit that? Absolutely. I mean, I have too much to live for. You're 100%. Exactly.

So they're going to come up with some strategies and plans and then it's just a stair-stepped process. Cool. We'll reduce it by this much for this period of time. We're going to practice it. We're going to practice it. We're going to feel it.

And yes, you're going to have periods of time when you just weep openly. That stuff's stored in your body. It doesn't go anywhere. There's going to be periods where you were super disciplined

and now you can't get out of bed. All that's going to be part of the thing, part of your healing process if that's what you choose to do. But you're going to have to, this is the cornerstone, you're going to have to have people in your corner. You're going to be part of the thing part of your healing process if that's what you choose to do but you're going to have to this is the cornerstone you're going to have to have people in your corner you're going to have to start trying to over intellectual intellectualize everything you're going to just going to have to be honest about what you feel yeah is that fair? it's fair I have one

scary stupid question that I want to ask you out loud ask it out loud I feel like it's obvious it's

you don't think it's too late for me to change my outlook I went to a trauma counselor for the first time about four months ago and everything in my life is different because there's stuff I've never talked about ever.

And I'm in my forties and I have a seven-year-old little girl and a 13-year-old little boy and a woman I've been married to for 21 years. No. And I've sat with 70-year year olds who decided to change their life and start lifting weights and start eating a little different and call their kids and they say, I'm sorry. With the time we got left, can we control alt delete and do something new? I do not believe in the phrase, it's too late. But I want you to hear the order of this. Start with your wife, take her out to a

dinner, take her out to breakfast and say, I'm getting ready to enter into healing part two. We've been on maintenance for seven years. We feel good. We feel safe. We feel secure. We've got a beautiful kid. We've got a great marriage. We're heading into part two and part two is going to be rough. It's going to be bumpy. I'd be willing to bet you money if we had another hour to talk you had some stuff going on in your childhood. That is gnarly You're gonna have to deal with that or it will deal with you It's part of the journey and the next conversation after your wife is you're going to sit down with your doctor Or your counselor or both in a perfect world. And you're going to let everybody know, I need some coaches and I need some physicians, I need some ringside support

because I'm heading into the middle of the ring here. And we're going to stair step off this stuff. I'm going to practice feeling. I'm going to practice learning. I'm going to practice crying and holding that. I'm going to practice feeling joy for the first time in a long time. I'm going to practice learning. I'm going to practice crying and holding that. I'm going to practice feeling joy for the first time in a long time. I'm going to practice feeling embarrassment and shame. I'm going to practice all those things over the next one, two. Dude, this is a multi-year journey you're on. It's all good. Just like lifting weights, man. Some days you have good workouts, some days you don't. But over the long haul, you get healthier, you feel better, and you can do so much more. I cannot put into words how proud of you I am, Colin. This is what bravery and courage

and just straight gangster looks like. A dad, his little baby girl, and his wife. Dad looking in the mirror saying, I'm worth being well so that I can show up for these two Was all I got I'll walk with you brother every step of the way here holler at me anytime. I'm proud of you. We'll be right back All right, we're back let's go out to charlotte and talk to taylor what's up charlotte what's up charlotte What's up taylor in charlotte? Hi, how are you? Good. I'm talking to Charlotte in Taylor, North Carolina. What's up? What's up, Taylor? I've just got a question about communication problems that I'm having with my husband. I'm sorry. I'm really, really nervous.

Oh, that's okay. You should be because I don't know any married people that have communication problems. I know. Yeah. I'm the absolute first person that's ever been through this. Who's ever called. What's up? It's kind of scary. So what's up? The main gist of it is that I feel constantly ignored about my feelings and my requests, especially in matters of like, you know, safety and everything for our daughter. Yeah. Tell me about that. So basically there are, there are a couple of like, you know,

big events that I know, like after binge listening to your show that I know that there's like a logical thing that my brain is trying to do and that my body is not feeling safe in certain things. But just basic things that I can't seem to communicate with him that are real safety things. For instance, I know it sounds small, but for me, it feels like such a big thing, like shutting the gate at the top of the stairs. Things like that where I'm like, please shut the gate at the top of the stairs. This is very important. Our daughter is extraordinarily hyperactive. She beelines it for the stairs. I really need like please shut the gate at the top of the stairs like this is very important our daughter is extraordinarily hyperactive she beelines it for the stairs I really need you to shut the gate to the point where he doesn't listen he doesn't actually follow through and I've had to put signs up like please do this like as a reminder and it still doesn't happen where else

where else does he not show up um he just, his communication, he knows that he's bad at communication. He recognizes that. And I'm very blunt and I'll point it out, but like you're not communicating with me well. And then we'll have like a good stretch of like a couple weeks where he tries. And then he just completely wafers off. So just the way that he speaks to me, the way that he speaks to other people, where he doesn't realize that it comes off as cold. Taylor, how long have you been with him? Eight years.

We've been married for five. Okay. You have been covering for him and protecting him a long time. And you curated the staircase thing, which by the way is a big deal. If you've ever been to a house where a toddler has gone tumbling down the stairs, it is not funny. It is a big deal. But you picked that story in lieu of other ones because you've defended this guy for a long time. Give me an example of where he's not safe.

And be honest. Oh God. Um, I'm right. Right. I want to, I want to press this. No,

no, no, no, no, no, no defending him on this call. He's a grown man. Okay.

Um, he has a bad habit of like, whenever I do point those things out to him that are unsafe or that he's getting too angry or trying to argue with me in front of our daughter, I try to remove her from the situation. And there was a situation, it feels so stupid because it was months ago, but I was upstairs getting ready to go to work and I heard my daughter crying and it wasn't like a normal cry. Like a mom knows when a cry isn't normal. And I know that she can be very difficult during, you know, like dinner time and things like that. This is like right before she turned two. And I came down the stairs

and he didn't see that I was right there. And he was so angry at her for not wanting to eat her food that he grabbed her leg and shook it and like cried out in anger. And the first thing I did, I ran over. I wasn't yelling or shouting because I was just trying to get my hysterical, scared daughter out of there. And I picked her up and I swooped her up and I was like, we are leaving. We are going upstairs. I'm separating. This is not happening. And I grabbed her and she was clinging to me and I took her upstairs and he followed us upstairs. He's like, no, don't take her away. I'm so, so sorry. I'm so, so sorry. I was like, no, we need space. We need space. She needs space. And he followed me up the stairs and he like, would not leave us alone. Like he wouldn't stop. And I tried to go into our bedroom

and he was trying to get into the room and I had her on my hip and I was trying to close the door and lock it. So that way we could just get the space for her to calm down. And he repeatedly hit me with the door while I was holding her. And I was like, you're hurting me. You're going to hurt her. And he was like, then you need to let me in. You have to let me in. Let me apologize to her. I'm sorry. You have to let me apologize to her. And I was like, you're hurting me. You're going to hurt her. And he was like, then you need to let me in. You have to let me in. Let me apologize to her. I'm sorry. You have to let me apologize to her. And I was like, please, like you're scaring us. Like you're scaring her. She's crying. And he repeatedly slammed the door. And then I finally got enough leverage against the bed to shut it and lock it. And he just like wept out in the hallway. And then after like an hour, I finally felt okay for him to see her again and he

like wept over her he felt awful he's never done anything like before he's never hit me he's never hit her or anything but he felt awful and he was like I'm so sorry that will never happen again but I feel like I let it I let it go too easy and and now everything's bubbling up where I'm just seeing things like a gate being left open, and I just lose my mind. Hold on. You should, Taylor, because you're not safe. And you've listened to the show, you said, for a while. You know I am as forgiving as they come when people do something stupid. It happens to all of us, right? And we live in a world now where a teacher can be perfect, just do great work for

20 years. And then she pops off and says one thing and then she's fired. Like that's the world we're in. I don't want to participate in that world. But when someone is violent with a child, followed up by violence with his wife, and here's the concern, there is a rage that is scary, but there is a self-centeredness. I will hurt you so that I can make myself feel better by saying sorry. And here's the big deal to me.

Somebody snaps, they scream at their kid, they whatever. I used to tell my students all the time, doing something stupid in a moment does not mean you have bad character. Where I'm going to look for character is what happens immediately afterwards. And there's been no change no i need to go see somebody no will you forgive me no contriteness no hey how do i love you better today how do i love you

better today there's been a hey man it's cool it wild night, wasn't it? And now we're back to old Taylor. I mean, we're back to old household. And if you go back and listen to this call, you've apologized for your daughter being loud. She's two years old, for God's sakes. You've apologized for you. You've apologized for... You have all of the,

the vocal mannerisms of someone who's in a very abusive, unsafe situation. I believe you. I believe you when you say he's never done this before or after. I believe you. But your body is running on razor's edge, right? Yeah. Cause like, I know that he loves me.

I don't know where it came from. He's such a good guy. And he tries. He goes through these big stages of really, really trying. Taylor, Taylor, Taylor. Really, really trying is not enough here. It's not enough. You change.

If you were trying to fix your car and all you have in your toolkit is a hammer and you smash the engine to pieces, you immediately resolve to A, go get new tools because you don't have the right tools to fix this thing. And B, get somebody to teach you how to do it. And infinitely more important than a stupid car engine is a daughter and a wife. Yeah.

And I'm telling you right now Taylor I'm going to honor your silence here I'm going to honor your silence and what I say about that is I've been prying a little bit and you don't want to talk about some of them that's fine I know you're not safe

in whatever that looks like. I will say this. Ever since that moment, he's never even so much as raised his voice at our daughter. I know. You know what he did? He unplugged. Instead of solving the problem, he detached from it. So instead of being a rageful, angry guy, now he's numb.

And he won't even lock the gate. He won't even do small, basic things to keep your daughter safe, to make you feel loved, to make you feel safe inside your own home. Because he's so untrustful of himself that he can't plug back in. And listen, I applaud him for unplugging for a second, but at some point he's got to be a dad and be a husband. Right.

Yeah. No, I've asked him. Cause like I said, that was, it was just so crazy. Cause like I said, that was, it was just so crazy. Cause like he had never even said he's never, ever raised a hand at me.

He's never violently like shouted at me or anything like that before. And I asked him, I was like, is there like something going on? Okay. Let's do this. Let's do this. He did what he did.

Right. Yeah. And. You and I both know that maybe not in that type of wild evening, there have been other things that make you feel unsafe. Here's what's important. You can't control his actions or his thoughts. You can't.

There's not some magic thing you haven't said. There's not some like, oh man, if I had just done this, then maybe he would. He's making choices. He's an adult. At the end of the day, you are going to have to decide what your boundaries and what safety looks like for you. You're going to have to communicate them in a very direct and clear way. Here's what I mean. I mean, you take him out to lunch or take him out to breakfast

and you start the conversation with, this is going to be a very hard conversation. And if you lose your temper or you get angry, I am going to leave If you tell me that what my feelings are my feelings are stupid i'm gonna leave I need you to listen directly to me without responding. Can you do that? And if he's a grown-up, he'll say yes Then you tell him I have not been able to come back from what happened a few months ago a few weeks ago

I still haven't taken a full breath I have not been able to come back from what happened a few months ago, a few weeks ago. I still haven't taken a full breath. I still can't, but I haven't done anything. I know, I know, this is me. I can't breathe. And so the only path forward I see for us right now is that you and I go see a marriage counselor asap And i've already got us an appointment If you don't go

I hear you telling me you are not interested in being married to me If you do go I hear you saying you're very sorry about what happened and you're willing to Learn new tools so that we can create a great family together do you hear what I'm saying Taylor? that's how direct but if you go in and you're like well I'm so sorry that she didn't want to eat that night no she's two

of course two year olds don't eat every night they're two they're just bundles of nerves yeah I feel like like you're right They're just bundles of nerves. Yeah, I feel like you're right. And he always says, like, you know, we even talked about, I asked him, like, after the incident happened, I came downstairs and I was surprisingly very calm after I put my daughter to bed and I threatened him. And I was like, if this ever happens again, I will leave you. I will take my daughter and we will leave. I'll say, it doesn't matter how much I'm in love with you, but we will go. And I feel like that scared him into not doing anything. And like I said, he adores her. He really does. And that's

why I feel like it just came out of the blue and I don't know what happened. But it isn't the first time that I feel like his feelings, you know, of what he's feeling in that moment of my safety is disregarded. And, you know, like in the question that I wrote, obviously your body is telling you something and it leaks into the attraction of your marriage because your body you like can look at your husband like wow he is you know excuse me like he's so hot but like my body is like no i don't i don't feel as comfortable as i should the other here's the thing i think you know as well as i do that this marriage has way more problems than you have ever wanted to say publicly out loud. I think it's going to be really important for you to take a yellow pad and start writing stories down.

One after the other. And I know there are good stories too. You'll talk about that with your counselor. But I want you to take stories. I want you to write them down one after another, after another, after another. Because I think if you look at them out of your body on a piece of paper, you're going to find one of two things. There's been two or three big blowups over the course of your marriage that need to be addressed. They have to be addressed. Or you're going to find 30 or 40. You're going to realize, oh my gosh, my body's been trying to get my attention for eight

years because we're not safe. I'm not safe. Now I brought a baby girl into this and she's not safe. You're going to have to write down what you need. You have to write down what you want. You have to write down what your boundaries are. You're going to have to communicate them directly. And remember this, behavior is a language. If he loves you and he loves that little girl and he's all in on creating something extraordinary, a life together, he'll be all in. If he walks away, he's telling you everything you need to hear. Thank you so much for the call, Taylor. I'm so, so sorry. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond

to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, this... Kelly just got this tattoo under the front of her neck. It's by her favorite band, The Disturbed. And the tattoo is incredible.

Song's called The Light, and it goes like this. Like an unsung melody, the truth is waiting there for you to find it. It's not a blight, but a remedy, a clear reminder of how it began deep inside your memory. You turned away as you struggled to find it. You heard it call as you walked away. When you think all is forsaken, listen to me now. Hope's not forsaken. You need never feel broken again. Sometimes darkness can show you the light. Thank you guys. I love y'all. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. Bye.