The Dr. John Delony Show - Should I Leave My Marriage or Stick It Out for the Kids?

Episode Date: January 17, 2022

In today’s episode, we talk with a dad who’s desperate to help his son who’s getting bullied, a wife who’s only staying in a bad marriage for the kids, and a woman who feels like a failure after divorce. My 12yo son is being bullied at school & I’m pissed Should I leave my marriage or stick it out for the kids? My life post-divorce has sucked and I feel like a failure Lyrics of the Day: "Hard Love" - Needtobreathe Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we talk to a dad whose son is being bullied and he wants to know how he can partner with the school to help his son. We talk to a woman who asked the question, is my marriage over? And we talk to a woman who is struggling with her divorce, forgiving herself, and moving on. And more. Stay tuned. Hold me closer, tiny dancer.

Is that how you sing this song? That's not, I missed the melody, I think. Hold me closer, tiny dancer. You missed something. We'll just leave it at that. This is John Deloney Show. What's up? Hope you're doing well and you are having a good time.

Dude, that scene in Almost Famous makes me cry 100% of the time. Every time. And this weekend, my son and I were on a, jeez Louise, we were bonkers adventure. And the song came on the radio. I started getting a little choked up. He's like, Dad, what are you doing? Hold me closer, tiny dear. I'm happy to be on the show with you today.

On this show, we talk about mental health, relationships, everything. And so if you want to be on the show, give me a shout at johndeloney.com slash ask. If you want singing lessons from me personally, you can email James directly and he will set them up. You can clearly, I'm an incredible singer. I think that the phone's going to ring off the hook for that one. So, or you can call 1-844-693-3291. You can be on the show. Man, we are not, kind of all over the place today.

James, kind of all over the place. Let's go to Zach in SLC, Utah. What's up, Zach? Hey, John. Thanks for having me on the show. You got it, man. What's going on, dude? Hey, so. Thanks for having me on the show. You got it, man. What's going on, dude? Hey, so, my 12-year-old son was physically assaulted at school last week.

Oh. It's brought to light some separate bullying issues, which we've struggled with. It's helping with your background in education and mental health that you've got some tools and wisdom to offer, because mine don't seem to be working. Man, man, man, man. Okay, so what happened at school with the assault? Did you get in a fist fight? What happened? They were just playing basketball.

Some kid got upset about him shooting from the side of the key instead of the back or the front of it. He just got all up in his face, and the teacher came and got him and separated him. As they were walking away, my son had turned around, and the kid bolted from the teacher, came up and cold talked to my son a couple times. Okay. Just out of nowhere.

So what happened to—well, none of that comes out of nowhere. It may have been out of nowhere for that situation. What happened to your son? I mean, to your son, what happened to that young man? Is the young man out of school? So school didn't even call me. A kid in the school called my son's mother, who we're divorced from.

She called me. I went up to the school and kind of stormed into the assistant principal's office and got some answers. But basically they put short suspension and they don't care. I insisted that there, a kid be moved out of that class. Um,

I don't know if I'm overreacting. Uh, yeah. You tell me. Well, there's a couple of things. One, I don't like the fact that your head kid got hit in the face and the school didn't call you. That's absurd. That's obnoxious and absurd. They're always talking, schools everywhere are talking about parent participation in the kid's life. And that's not just when it comes to math homework. That also means in the good stuff and the tough stuff. Clearly, this other young man's got stuff going on.

Is there a possibility? And before I get into it, I'm not ever excusing another kid hitting another kid in the face, okay? It's obnoxious. It's stupid. It doesn't help. We solve problems. But it does happen, okay?

Is there a chance that your son participated in this, meaning was he popping off at the mouth? Was he mouthing off? Is there stuff that you can talk to your kid about? Or is he a, is there a, are these consequences of something that he may have participated in? Whether they're right consequences or not, are they consequences? Or is he victim of a senseless act of teenage bullying here? You know, he's a, I'm not saying he's perfect or anything, but he's not the kind of kid to go popping off or,

or anything like that. Um, but he, he's a lot, I mean, our entire school existence, we've struggled with people, being,

he's just like a magnet to, to being jerked around. Uh, we've, in fact, we, we changed schools, uh, the start of this year

because of that, hoping for kind of a fresh start. Kids have kind of pegged them as some things and we were hoping for a change. And I guess that's the underlying issue. It's just a theme and I don't know how to address it.

Being objective, and I know this is hard because it's your son. And here, let me ask, let me tell you where I'm headed here. And then it's going to sound like I'm coming after you and I'm not. Okay. But when I look at a situation and there's multiple, multiple environments and multiple groups of people, and there's one common denominator, I'm asking you, is there anything objective that you can say your son is, this is why? Does he have special needs? Is he have fill in the blank? Is he contributing? Like what is it there?

I experienced that growing up. My son's experienced that growing up. And there's some things that just aren't fair in the world. And there's some idiots out there that growing up. And there's some things that just aren't fair in the world. And there's some idiots out there in the world. And there's some stuff that we were doing that was contributing to it. So, just looking objectively

at your son from arm's length, is there anything that he's contributing to this? You know, the only thing that comes to mind,

I guess, the one thing I kind of struggled to connect with him on is he's just like super extroverted and different for me in that regard. Um, he's, he's kind of loud and, um, I mean, in like a, not, not an aggressive way, but, uh, he's just a lot, I guess, is the way that I've heard you put up before. I know this kid and he is me.

So, yes. If it makes you feel any better, he's got a bright future. Maybe he too can be a YouTuber someday. And wow, look how it's working out for me. So here's the, there's a couple of big metas here. Okay. Number one, I would circle back when you're not, and it might be now, there is a, I'm storming into the principal's office to find out if my kid is safe.

And it's obnoxious and it's disrespectful that they didn't call you. Both for him, that they're just going to send him home with that level of trauma and without you knowing it, that's just bad pedagogy. That's bad child care. And that they didn't bring you along to say, hey, your kid's been hurt. Here's some things that we want to work on with your family, with their other family, everything. That's number one. So you have that right and responsibility, and you have that moment when you charge in. Now that the smoke is cleared on that incident, I would love for you to circle back with the school counselor, with the school principal, and say, what am I missing here? This is, we've moved schools. There's got to be something here that my son's contributing,

or that is making it to where other people don't like him, that I want to be something here that my son's contributing or that is making it to where other people don't like him, that I want to be able to coach him on, teach him on. Take that posture and you may learn some things. They may say, yeah, your kid actually, you wouldn't ever think it, but he's pretty handsy. He gets real excited about things and he's always bumping into people and putting his hands on people. And for some kids, that's a threat. Or he talks a lot of trash on the basketball court or whatever the thing is.

And it may be none of this, but I'm gonna do my due diligence as a dad. Am I contributing to this in any shape, form or fashion? That's my son. The second thing is, and this is gonna sound backwards and I don't want all of the internet warriors to come after me on this, but your son needs to have

some sort of discipline in his life, preferably through, whether it's taking jujitsu classes, whether it's taking some sort of, does he play any sort of afterschool sports? Well, he did boxing for a few years, but then we got worried about TBI stuff. And so we stopped that. Great. So I would transition him to both of my kids will start jujitsu soon. I'll put it that way. This is something I'm doing in my own house. Here's why. Number one, it teaches them discipline and it teaches them when

to and how to. It also teaches them to identify when a threat is actually a threat and when somebody's being a knucklehead. And it teaches them, oh, this is what could happen. And I was a hot-headed, loud-mouthed idiot until I started taking jujitsu classes, until I started training with a professional MMA team. And dude, it changed my life. And it changed my life and made me infinitely less of a hothead. I don't even consider getting in fights anymore. Not because I can't handle myself because they're stupid and a waste of my time. They're absolute waste of my life, right? And if one comes to me, I'll be okay. You know what I mean? But there's a level of confidence that it sounds counterintuitive. I don't want to teach somebody how to fight to avoid fights. There is something about teaching

a young person, whether my daughter and my son are both going to do this. They learn strength, they learn resilience, they learn toughness, they learn discipline, and they learn how to walk away or how to back out of a situation. How they had to go, all right, cool, man. And they laugh and they know it's not a threat to my ego, to their self-esteem, whatever, because their ego and self-esteem and honor are in other places.

The third thing is, is I would get really clear about forgiving yourself about this because I can hear it on you. Am I wrong? How have you been through some stuff? He's a pretty resilient kid, but his life hasn't been perfect. No, but you're hanging on to some stuff. He's a pretty resilient kid, but his life hasn't been perfect. No, but I'm, you're hanging on to some stuff.

Yeah. I'm not sure exactly where to go with that, but yeah, I'm sure there's some stuff I could figure out. If a kid's getting bullied, it's not your fault, man.

And I know you don't believe me. You don't. I know that. And your kid got hit in the mouth. You asked yourself, what should I have done? What could I have done? I'm telling you, man, your kid, it sounds like your kid ran into a hothead. When you say you experienced bullying in other places, back up.

What other—it brought to light bullying. What other bullying is he experiencing? Yeah, so he pointed out that we were leaving the school, and he pointed out a kid, and he mentioned that that kid had been a jerk to him. Asked for more details, and he said, you know, he'll walk up through the halls and take him or punch him or whatnot. So for example, go ahead, go ahead. So earlier in that same class period, that same kid and in that conversation, this was a few days before he got cold talked by the basketball player. Um, he told me that and I said, well, you, you got to tell someone, you got to do something about it. You can't just deal with it. And so that period, that same kid punched him once.

He said, you need to stop. He punched him in the back again, said you need to stop. He did it again. So he went and told the teacher, teacher pulled him aside and talked to him. It seemed like an insufficient response to me. And it just pisses me off that a kid gets talks, too, for repeatedly punching at him. I just thought, yeah, they're still out of control. Have you talked to the teacher about it?

I talked to the principal. He basically told me that that kid has a history of things like that and that they're working with counselors, and that's it. I mean, there's nothing more going on to to distance him from my son or or do anything like that so what i would suggest is having a gentle kind but passionate conversation in a non-threatening way but let them know i will bring legal action upon this school if my kid gets hit one more time. We have put you on notice that these particular children are hitting my child and making my child unsafe at school. If my child's contributing in any way, let me know.

If he's talking trash, if he's pushing first, if he's bouncing around into other people, whatever. You let me know. But you are on notice now. And if somebody else hits my child, I'm going to hold the school liable because we've told you and you're not doing anything about it. And you say that in a gentle, kind way. And probably what they will say is we can't continue this conversation anymore because you've threatened legal action. And you say, great.

Let me talk to the general counsel of the district okay I mean I guess you're right I guess that's where the guilt comes in yeah and I do identify with your son saying I'm telling the adults in my life the adults in my life, the teachers in my life,

and they're not doing anything about this. That's a scary place for a child to be. And the children deserve to go to school and feel safe. Okay. And so this is a three prong approach here. Actually a four prong approach. How often, I'm gonna ask you a hard question. How often do you hug your kid?

Like daily. Good. Keep doing that. Let him feel, not hear, let him feel that you love him. Okay? Yeah. The second thing is, has he seen any sort of counseling or anything since the divorce? Yeah, a little

bit. How's that? How's that going? I don't think you got a whole lot from it. Okay. Maybe y'all two go together and say we're going to commit to healing. You've been through a lot. I've been through a lot.

We're going to go together. I don't even know what that looks like. But what I'm trying to say is he needs a model for taking care of yourself. He doesn't have that. And that starts with you. The third thing is, is get him in some sort of jujitsu class, physical activity class, gymnastics class, a class where he can use his body, where he can grow and develop self-confidence and discipline and teamwork and learn.

Oh, wow. This is how this ends. And that teaches him a thousand ways, how to walk away, how to back out, how to be confident, how to stand up with a teacher and say, this can't, right? How to take care of himself. And number four, be very direct and intentional

with the school when it comes to your child's safety. Okay. Okay. Give that a shot, man. How do I have that conversation trying to dig in and see what he's doing without saying this is your fault? You have that conversation with the school and with the teacher. Okay. Yeah, you have that with the school and with the teacher. Okay. Yeah, you had that with the school and with the teacher.

And a good skilled counselor, the two of y'all are going together. And you tell him, I want to learn how to be the best dad I can. And so we're going to go talk to this professional. And I want to be the best dad ever. And maybe you didn't have the best dad model for you. Or you have done some things or said something. You want to be better at it and better at it. And so you let them know, hey, I want you to come with me to these things. I'm going to be learning some new things. You're going to be learning some new things. We're going

to do this together. But you model it for them. And a good counselor would say, oh, what if we said this instead of that, right? So they'll help with that. It's not pointing at, what are you doing? What are you contributing to this? But I think a good conversation with the principal and the counselor and his teachers will say, this is how we experience your kid. And that's hard because nobody wants to say, my kid's being bullied and it's on me or my kid's contributing to this because it's never okay to punch a kid in the face. Don't hear me say that at all in any shape, form, or fashion. It's never okay. And that 12-year-old's a child.

The one that hit your kid is a child too. And so there's an interaction going on between children and I want to teach my son, A, how to stand up for himself, how to take care of himself, how to walk away with dignity, and how to not get himself himself, how to walk away with dignity, and how to not get himself in some of these situations.

And if it's happening over and over and over and over again, it could be your kid's got special needs. It could be your kid is just different. He's tall, he's short, fill in the blank, and kids are just ruthless and mean. And that's where they need adults in their life to step in and say, I'm going to help keep you safe. This is how we treat each other. This is how we talk.

And if the school tells me, oh, yeah, that's just one of our violent kids. We're working with them. Not on my kid, you're not. Absolutely, that violent kid isn't going to practice being less violent on my kid. That's the school's responsibility to lean in and keep all of their kids safe, that kid included, and your kid. It's a mess, brother. It's a mess. We'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, October is the season for wearing costumes and

masks. And if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going as Brad Pitt in Fight Club era because, I mean, we pretty much have the same upper body, but whatever. All right, look, it's costume season. And let's be honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind costumes and masks more often than we want to.

We do this at work. We do this in social setting. We do this around our families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist.

Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can learn to be honest with yourself and you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic, direct life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist

anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey and you get matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. And we're going to go to Jessica in San Antonio. Jessica, are you there now?

Yes. Sorry. Can you hear me? Yes, I screwed up the buttons. I was hitting all the wrong buttons. No, you're fine. I'm all fired up after that last call. I can't stand it when schools don't help out kids.

Hey, so what's up? I don't know. My question is, how do I know if my marriage is over or if I keep going? Just a light question among friends? Yes, just very light. You know, I'll wait. I'll let you pour your wine. Dude, I don't know that wine's going to cut it on this one.

So why are you asking that question? I don't really even know where to start, But I guess I'll start about three years ago. I became a stay-at-home mom. I love my kids. Like, that is, I just, I love being a stay-at-home mom. Everything is good. And me and my husband had a great marriage before I worked. He worked.

Everything was good. And then as soon as we moved and I became a stay-at-home mom, it was like everything flipped. And I just don't know if it's even, I don't even know if I can come back from some of the things that have happened the last three years. What have happened? Rattle them off for me. Okay. Well, no explanations, just rattle them off. Okay. He has accused me of being a mooch, and then I'm only after his money, that I need to be a better mother, that I can't handle our kids. And that's why I sent him to school, not because it's a state law, but I sent him to school because I can't handle my children, that I can't clean the house good enough. He will not eat any dinner that I make because I'm not a good enough cook.

We haven't had sex in over four or five months now. He comes home. He won't look at me. He won't talk to me. I can't even have a conversation with him. Everything I do is not enough. I also run two small businesses and I'm studying to get my real estate license and that is not enough for him. I can't do any more. And I just, I don't know. I'm to the point to where he told me to leave a few months ago and I left and I came back after the weekend and I'm wondering why I even did that. Because I just, when is enough enough? And are my feelings even justified because i know there's so many other marriages out there that are far worse than mine you know and he's not mean to me because he doesn't even talk to me you know but he doesn't abuse me he doesn't do anything but at the same time i mean

i want a marriage i want a partner i want someone to raise my kids with he does nothing with our children he comes home drinks his beer passes out the couch, and he's done with life. And I don't want that. I want someone there. I want a conversation. I want someone to be interested in what me and the kids are doing. I want him to go to the holidays with us. I do all of that by myself, and he stays home.

And I want a partner. And I'm tired of trying to figure out if he stays home. I want a partner and I'm just tired of trying to figure out if he's the partner I used to have anymore. I think that was it. That would have been awesome if you'd exhaled real big and then you had like a round two. That would have been incredible. I still have a round two

but these are the major ones. He took the roof off and sold the shingles. He burned my car. Yes. So when did he start cheating on you? That's what I'm wondering.

I'm asking you. You know. when did it start oh gosh I feel like it has been going for a really long time and that's I don't know

I do not know because I don't know if I was blind you know when did it start I feel like it started

when because he moved here before me and my kids did okay and I think it started there I think something happened I don't kids did. And I think it started there. I think something happened. I don't know if he's still doing it, but something's killing him inside. And have you talked to him about it? I've asked him before. And when, when I talked to him

about stuff like this, it's like, I can see his eyes. He shuts down and he'll just tell me, I can't talk about this right now, or I can't deal with this. And so that's kind of how our conversations go. Like, it's not really, it's, there's no back and forth. You know what I mean? Do they happen? Do they happen in the, in the context of another fight? No, maybe. Let me put it this way. Sometimes, and by sometimes I mean almost always, couples get into arguments, and that turns into the, I think you're cheating on me. And that's when somebody goes, I can't have this conversation now.

Shut down. That's different. So the way I, like, that's like me lifting weights. Like I'm doing squats in my gym at my house. And then my wife comes up while I'm in the middle of doing squats. And she's like, hey, by the way, I'm going to throw some kettlebells on your shoulders. And you can do some shoulder presses too. Like I can't do everything. You know what I mean?

So the only way, your marriage is over. Let me say that. Yeah, I know. What you had is over, and you know that. You didn't need some idiot podcaster to confirm that for you. What you have to, let me say this. The marriage that as you once knew it is over. The choice you have now is, do you want to rebuild something new and better and stronger and more awesome? And do you have a partner to do that building with?

Or are you going to accept every single signal he's given you telling you, I don't want to be in relationship with you anymore? I know. The thing that's holding me is the kids. What do you think they're experiencing? You didn't break up anything. Your husband broke it up. I'm thinking. I'm like, they don't even know what a relationship looks like

if they don't have their dad because he's never here. And whenever he is elsewhere, he's somewhere else. And they don't have their mom. Let's be clear. You're gone too. Yeah. You haven't been you for a long time.

And you can say you're not being abused. He's not hitting you. I think neglect is one of the worst evils you can do to somebody because you're there in body, but you're not there in spirit. Yeah. And that starves people. At least when you're gone, you're off with your girlfriend or with your other boyfriend, I know where you are. Yeah. But when you're sitting in front of me or next to me and you're not present, I don't know where you are. It's disorienting.

It's, it's, it's, I think it's evil. And so I think neglect is abuse. But that's just me and I'm just a podcaster. So what do I know? Well, it's both. but that's just me and I'm just a podcaster. So what do I know? And I'll tell you, comparing your marriage to all the other marriages out there and they've got it worse. That doesn't help anybody. Don't do that. If I'm you, I would, wait, wait,

why did he tell you, why did he kick you out? Why did he tell you to leave? He accused me of stealing money from him. Did you? No, I paid the bills. How dare you, Jessica? Gosh, well, that's what I was like. I'm paying the bills. Go look at the bank account.

I'm not stealing money from you to go on this lavish shopping spree. How old is he? 36. Okay. So the compassionate part of me, which isn't... I always want to try to see the other side of the situation. He's done something. He's doing something.

Something's happened to where he is no longer the man he once was. Yeah. And he has chosen to exit your relationship, but still sleep in the same bed. Oh, he don't even sleep in the same bed. We haven't slept in the same bed in almost four years. Then why are you calling me and asking me If your marriage is over? Because I don't know what to do

God almighty, at least bring beer over If you're going to ask me like this What are you doing? I don't know I don't know I love him I don't know. I don't, I love him. I don't want to. Oh gosh, I don't even know how to describe it, you know?

And I don't, sometimes I'll think like. Hold on, you for sure know how to describe it. You're choosing not to. I just, I don't know if his issues come from his parents' marriage. Doesn't matter. I know. Doesn't matter. Who know. Doesn't matter. Who cares where they come from?

They are. How do I even get through to him? Like, is there even, but I feel like I've tried everything that I can and now the only thing that's left for me to do is seriously just pack my crap

and go. Why doesn't he pack his? It's where you and the kids live. Because I feel like I can't tell him to get out of his house. I mean. Why are you using that kind of pronoun language? It's y'all's house. Y'all are married.

Y'all have kids. Y'all pay the bills. You have a job. He's got a job. I know. I know. I know. I just.

I'm just being weak about it. You hear me say this all the time, and it rings differently when I say it directly to somebody. Jessica, you are worth more of a life than the one you are allowing yourself to live. Okay. You are worth more than that. God help me, your kids are worth more than that. Your husband's worth more than that. And he has divorced you inside your own home,

and he's too much of a coward to do anything else. You're right on that. And he's divorced you, and he's trying to make you the bad guy. And he's willing to outweigh you forever. You know why? He's got the magic key, beer. Yes. Ta-da.

Well, I guess I know where to go from here. I will never, ever tell somebody to get divorced, ever. I know you're not, but I just needed someone outside. I'm never going to tell somebody. Can I ask you a hard question? Yes, please. Do you not have girlfriends you've sat down and had this conversation with? Yes, I do. What do they tell you?

They tell me pretty much exactly what you're telling me. So why is it hard? What's so terrifying about the next step? I'm going to have to do it. I mean, there's really no return. There's no second guessing on that. Once I say it, it's done. It's out there.

And I hate doing this to my kids. You didn't. You didn't. You can't say that. You can't think that. It sounds like you have worked really hard to stay married. Are you perfect in this?

Probably 0% chance you're perfect in this. I know you're not. Is that fair? No. Yes. Yes. No, I don't know. Yes.

No one is perfect in a marriage relationship. None of us. I know. And that's what I don't know. Yes. No one is perfect in a marriage relationship. None of us. I know. And that's what I don't know. Am I doing something? Is there something that I should be doing different? Well, clearly, if you would cook better and clean the house more and be a better mom and stop mooching off your husband, well, yeah, all this stuff would fix it.

You see what I'm saying? It's insane. It's nuts. Yes. Well, yeah, all this stuff would fix it. You see what I'm saying? It's insane. It's nuts. So if I'm you, and you're safe physically, here is what I would do. I would ask my, you've heard me say this a thousand times. It's like the meta solution. It solves nothing, but it provides an environment where solutions can happen.

I would tell my husband we need to have a truth-ttelling conversation and we're going to schedule it for this Saturday and you will make childcare arrangements and you need to talk about the future of your relationship, of your marriage and of your time together. And I would tell him, this isn't a fight. These are two old friends. We just need to go talk. And the whole conversation will be a risk. He could not show up. He could say, I'm not going.

I'm not going to have this conversation. I'm not talking to you. And if that's the case, then I think you let him know it's your expectation then that if he wants to divorce you, he needs to go ahead and file. Yeah. And you can say, I've worked with a couple recently privately that one of the spouses said to the other, I will never file. So if you want out, you're going to have to do it. And they did. And I think that was hard for everybody. Yeah. But they'd been backed into a corner where one person was just really trying to get the other person to do it.

Because they didn't want to pull the trigger. And the other person just said, I'm not going to. So then finally, but there was just a truth telling, here's the moment we are in. Yeah. But I would have things written down and say, we haven't had sex in six months. You tell me I disgust you. You don't talk to me. You tell me I don't cook months. You tell me I disgust you. You don't talk to me. You tell me I don't cook well.

You tell me I'm a mooch. You accuse me of stealing when I pay the electric bill. I get these, every one of your signals says that you are done with this marriage. Are you done with this marriage? He told me that he wasn't whenever I left last time. He said that he wanted his family back, but I mean, nothing's changed.

So I think you get back and say, okay, nothing has changed. What does getting your family back mean? And it's going to start with him coming clean. I'd be willing to bet, not a lot of money because I don't have a lot of money, but I'd be willing to bet he's cheated on you at some point if he's not already. This whole thing feels like infidelity.

I just don't know if he'd ever come clean with it. I wish he would because I feel like it would be a huge relief. Tell him. If he would. Tell him. Can I just text him right now? Nope. You cannot text any of this stuff.

I know. You got it? Will you let me know how the meeting goes? I will. I promise you, I will. Let me know how the meeting goes and be prepared for it to go terribly. I know.

It could be a disaster. Or it can impede two adults having a really hard conversation. And this can be the breakfast that changes everything. Okay. And what I will tell you is I've had two or three of these

in my marriage. And they've so far all been great. The conversations weren't great. They were hard. But we just turned the lights on and said, we got to take inventory because this track doesn't work. Okay. Okay.

So I'm not telling you it's over. I'm telling you. No, I know. He's all but left you. He's done. Yes. He's been done for a while now. That's right.

That's right. All right. Cool. He's done. Yes. He's been done for a while now. That's right. That's right. Cool. You're brave. You're brave. You're brave. No more saying I'm doing this to my kids. This has been done to you and to your kids. And now it's time to stand up and say, I'm worth a better life than this. My kids are worth a better life than this. My husband's worth a better life than this. My husband's worth a better life than this. And we get to choose. Are we going to have a good marriage? Are we going to choose to not have a good marriage? Are we going to choose to not have a marriage at all?

Those are all choices. Choose wisely. Be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your

anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, let's take one more. Let's go to Chelsea in Kansas City, Missouri. What's up, Kansas City? Chelsea, how we doing? Great, John. How are you? Cool. Go Chiefs, right? Cool, go Chiefs, right? Yeah, go Chiefs, they killed it this weekend. Yeah, they did, Pema Holmes, he's a Red Raider. That's awesome, all right, so what's up?

So last year I divorced my best friend. Why did you do that? Well, we got married twice. This was a second round. We're just much better friends than we are married people. Okay. And that happens sometimes. And so I came to terms with that, but I filed for divorce in January of 2020 after a very hard, we were in marriage counseling all of 2019. And it got to the point where every counselor was like, well, you just need to change who you are to me. And I'm like, okay. So I try and I try and I try, but nothing I did, even to the point of allowing him to quit his job in February of 19 to stay home with the kids, it still wasn't enough.

So we filed in January of 2020. COVID hit in March. So he's home and the kids are home and I'm still working full time at home. And you're divorced? Two months. I'm divorced now. Yeah. Our divorce was finalized in May. We had also put our house on the market in January of 2020. And I couldn't live in that chaos anymore. So I moved out in May, the house closed and sold in July and the kids and I moved to an apartment. And then he had moved in with my parents at the time because he didn't have a job. Now he lives on his own. Everything's great. But every year around this time, my kids

bring up our old house and how much they miss it. And I can't help but feel like I failed them and just constantly feel like a failure because I did work so hard to keep her house when he quit his job. But COVID really made me realize how much I missed my kids and being home with them. And I wasn't willing to be the only one working in the home anymore. But now I find myself struggling this year, feeling so badly that what if we could have worked it out? Even though we had tried it twice, we're still like, I mean, last Christmas we went down to Branson together as a group and we get along really well, but we're just so on different spectrums as far as hard work goes that if we set goals, we have to stick to them. And he just was never willing to do that. So home is a metaphor. Home's not a place. Home is a fantasy for y'all.

And when your kids say they miss the house, they miss the home. They miss that picture they have. And it doesn't sound like anybody's grieved the loss of your marriage of your friendship it sounds like y'all are still playing friend you know still playing married ish sort of kind of and nobody has said this happened this was devastating this was heartbroken I was heartbroken. I miss the house too. I miss being married to my best friend too. And yet here we are. I started doing that a lot the last couple of months and I'm in a new relationship now where we were having some fights a few months ago. And I'm like, I really think this is on me because I haven't grieved the loss. And so I kind of feel like I'm in limbo,

but it's affecting every part of my life. And I gone to counseling and everybody's like, well, this is all on him. Like you just need to get over it and think better of yourself. It, it, it, it, he could have been the most evil, abusive, angry, awful person. And you still grieve that loss. You grieve the loss of trust in yourself. You grieve the loss of trust in your marriage.

You grieve the fact that your kids don't have a dad present anymore. You grieve all of those things. And so the fact that he is a good human being, you just couldn't, you just decided I can't live with him anymore. You gotta grieve that. Grieving isn't about whose fault it was. Grieving is simply acknowledging the gap between what I hoped for and what actually happened. And you married this guy twice thinking he was it and you chose for him not to be. And so you're going to grieve that gap. It's not about finding fault and blame and getting over stuff now, man. But you're right. It will affect every relationship forward because you don't trust yourself anymore. You don't trust yourself to stick it out when it

gets hard. You don't trust yourself to pick right. You don't trust yourself. You just don't trust yourself. That's what grief's for. It's making peace with reality. So I guess my big question is how do I show my kids in future relationships that a marriage can work, especially when the question comes up with, well, you and daddy get along, but why couldn't you stay married? And how am I supposed to stay married? Like, how do I show them what a good relationship and that when you get married, it is for good,

better or worse. But it wasn't. I don't want to raise them. I know. And I don't want to raise them to think that you can just quit. If it gets hard, you just quit. And that's what I feel like I did. Well, then the only thing you can do if you want to teach them that lesson

is to teach them out of the things that you feel like you did wrong. See what I'm saying? You want your kids to have a great marriage? Show them what a great marriage looks like. And there's not a lot you can tell them right now because they've experienced it. They've felt it. They've seen it.

And so if you get remarried to somebody, they will see what a good marriage looks like five, 10, 15, 20 years later from now. Oh, this is it. But there's not like going to be some magic conversation you have like, by the way, I did this and this and this. And I feel like I did it like this. That's not how it really works. It really works like that.

The kids can't process that. How old are your kids? My daughter is seven and my son is three. Yeah. I mean, that's when your kids say, I really miss the house. And you hold them tight and you cry and you say, I miss it too. I really miss it too. And we miss daddy.

And you say, I miss him too. And then they say, well, then why don't we just go, why doesn't Daddy just come back here? And you say, because me and... You know, it's funny, they never, I was really afraid last year when we all went on vacation and we had to go to two separate homes that they would be like, well,

why can't we all stay together? Not even, they didn't even question it. They will someday. They're just like, this is the way, this is the way life is. Yeah. And you got to remember that they don't have that back. They're just trying to deal with whatever reality is put in front of them. That's what kids do. That's the beauty of being a kid.

And that's why being a kid is so brutal. Because they just deal with the reality and put it in front of them. You, Chelsea, you haven't made peace with this you are still you haven't owned this I feel like I've cried about the loss recently and I'm just like when is it enough

and I'm in a relationship now where now I'm just like, when is it enough? And I'm in a relationship now where now I'm like, we're living as if we are married, we should get married. But then I don't want to rush into a marriage again just because life looks like we should be married. Chelsea, you're still married. You're still married to that dude. You still love that guy. You still call him your best friend.

You don't live in the same house with him. You have a separate life than him. But y'all are still together. Marriage would be great right now. Exactly. You're playing married. You want both sides of this. You want to be divorced and

have the freedom to be with other people. And you want to not have to live with the reality that I am divorced. I left him because he couldn't keep goals up or he wouldn't, whatever the thing, the reasons you left him, that's a whole other call. But you have not separated yourself from that relationship. You have a legal separation, but you're still, you haven't let that go. And you've got no business dragging some other poor soul into this until you've let that go. It's like a weird inverted affair, kind of.

Am I right? I feel like I've, I have let it go, but I never did the grieving process. You are right about that. I know for a fact I never want to marry him again. But we're still really good friends.

And you can be really good friends, but you need to be best friends with your new spouse. And when something funny happens or something sad happens or something great happens, your first call needs to be to your new husband, not to your ex. And I don't think you're there yet. It's like somebody died and you still pick up the phone to call them when something happens. You haven't fully, your body hasn't accepted this is over. That's what I'm saying. I think it's hard. Oh, it's real hard. It is. But what I'm telling you is even harder is dealing with kids who are living in that limbo,

and they are. This has been a weird, summer campy, awful, weird, vacation-y thing. I don't know if you've ever been swimming in the ocean in the middle of the night. It's both exhilarating and terrifying because it's just ink black for as far as you can see. And you're bobbing with the waves and you can see your friends around you, but it's also, you don't know what's underneath you. You don't know what's above you. You don't know what's really happening. And that's where your kids are know what's underneath you. You don't know what's above you. You don't know what's really happening,

and that's where your kids are. They deserve the closure. You deserve the closure. Your ex-husband deserves the closure. You got to grieve it. You got to spend a season where you don't talk to him except to drop the kids off. You got to spend a season where you don't call each other

or text each other. You have to spend a season forgiving you don't call each other or text each other. You have to spend a season forgiving yourself or making peace with yourself. You've got to spend a season saying, this part of my life is over. Then we will rebuild a new friendship because we have to co-parent these kids.

And we're going to love our kids, whatever. He can't live at your parents' house anymore. He needs to go have his own life, create his own world. And if he chooses to be homeless, that's his choice. And if he chooses to not want to work, those are all his choices now. He's an adult male. He gets to do that.

But you've got to spend a season breaking that relationship off. And you haven't done that yet. Because you still want to hang on to it. The good parts of it. You gotta let it go. You can rebuild it later, but right now you gotta let it go. Thanks for that call, Chelsea. As we wrap up today's show,

let's see here. Who picked this song? Josh. Josh Engineer picked this song by Need to Breathe. The song's called Hard Love. Dang, man. Seems a little bit on the nose for this call. Way to go, Josh. Don't ever screw with the engineers. It goes like this.

Trading punches with the heart of desire going to blows with your fear incarnate, never gone until it's stripped away. A part of you has got to die to change. Josh. Dang, Gina. In the morning, you're gone, need to answer and nobody going to change the standard.

It's not enough to just feel the flame. You got to burn your old self away. Hold on tight a little longer. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Get back up because it's a hard love. You can't change without a fallout. It's going to hurt, but you don't slow down. Get back up because it's a hard

love. We're hard loving right here on the Dr. John Deloney show.