The Dr. John Delony Show - Should I Make Future Decisions Based on Past Trauma?

Episode Date: November 21, 2022

On this episode, we hear from: - A mom fearful of another pregnancy after her traumatic birth - A man unsure if he should admit he can’t stand the woman his best friend wants to marry - A woman whose family is accusing her of gaslighting them Lyrics of the Day: "Boomboxes and Dictionaries" - The Gaslight Anthem Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I was wondering how I could prepare emotionally for having more kids when the labor and postpartum experience with my first kid was really bad, in a word. Anytime somebody says, it was really bad, and they start laughing. It was super bad Whoo, what's up? This is John with the dr. John Maloney show Welcome to the greatest mental health marriage and parenting podcast that has ever existed. We talked about everything what I was going on in your life Do my best at medical stuff you although I usually tell you to go see your doctor. We talk about education. We talk about your mental health. We talk about

what's going on in your marriage, in your life, in your kids' heart and mind, whatever's going on in your life. I'll sit with you and we will come up with the next right step for you to take. And I'm honored by your time and I'm honored by your trust. And so thank you for joining us. Don't forget, you can really help out your neighbor if you will just do something as simple as leave a five-star review or hit the subscribe button. It's a gift because it throws it up in the algorithms. And I don't know how the machine learners

are doing whatever they're doing, but it puts it in front of more people and it gives people more access to something that we are all in desperate need of. And that is hope. That is light in a messy, messy, messy world. And also I'm a part of a network, the Ramsey Network. And if you want to get the Ramsey Network app,

the Ramsey show about money, my friend Rachel Cruz and George Campbell have a show. Rachel's got a show. Ken's got a show on career if you're wondering where to transition your job. So download the Ramsey Network app, and there's a bunch of shows with my friends and colleagues and partners. And check it out. All right, let's go to Maria in Richmond, Virginia.

What's up, Maria? Hello. Thank you for having me on the show. And thank you for calling. What's up? I was wondering how I could prepare emotionally for having more kids when the labor and postpartum experience with my first kid was really bad, in a word. Tell me what, anytime somebody says it was really bad and they start laughing, it was super bad. Tell me what really bad means.

So I was in labor for over two full days. I had to transfer to a hospital when I was planning on having a home birth. And I pushed for six hours. And, um, after he was born, there was some like, um, when I was getting stitched up, I could feel it. And I told the nurse to stop and she didn't. Um, so like that was also not great. And then when we got home, my son didn't sleep for the first year of his life. Um, yeah. So like he's just over a year now and he's just starting to sleep and I'm just starting to feel sort of like a normal person again. Human again. Yeah. So this was more, did you, did you, did you experience any postpartum symptoms or was this just like a, uh,

I mean, it was a traumatic birth experience. Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah. I mean, I do think there was some postpartum and depression,

postpartum depression and anxiety happening. Sure. Um, that's just, just a guess. I should have gotten help and I didn't, but, um,

yeah. So man, that's just, just a guess. I should have gotten help and I didn't, but, um, yeah. So man, I think your fear of what comes next is legitimate and real. I mean, it, it, it was, it, it was a scary thing and it was a painful, painful thing. And it was a loss of control. And it was probably made worse by every one of your girlfriends telling you it's so beautiful and lovely and great and you're on pinterest the week before and all these birth moms are holding their babies and smiling like it's all shiny and you know you know what i mean it's like you had this picture of what this was gonna be and they're gonna lay your baby down

on your chest and it's going to be skin to skin contact. And you're going to feel this moment and instead you're screaming and your legs are so cramped up, you can't move. And you'll go to the bathroom and in six to seven weeks because whatever. And then this kid won't sleep and I don't even like him even though he's my baby. And then I feel guilty and shameful because I don't like my kid. It's not how we drew it up. That's an accurate picture. Do you, do you want to have more kids? Yes.

Why? Why do you want to go down this road again? Because I know when I'm like 70, I'll be really mad. If the thing that stopped me was being scared of one year being difficult. That's one way to look at it. And I'm not even going to take that from you. You are allowed to have that as your picture. So a friend of mine, she had a pretty remarkable experience with postpartum.

And then she ended up making sense of that, making meaning of that by sitting with a number of women who's have different birth experiences. She's a professor at a med school, um, really remarkable woman. Um, and she had a very similar, much more graceful approach than you, but she said like her approach was, um, picture your Thanksgiving table in 20 years and then back it up to today. And when we were discussing it back and forth, I asked her, tell me if this is a good analogy. I want to have X dollars in my retirement account in 25 years. So what decisions do I need to make right now knowing that it's going to take this long for this to happen? And she said, absolutely. So here's what I would suggest. One is I would be

really clear with my OBGYN coming into this new season. And if it's time to get a new OBGYN, get a new doctor. Okay. I wouldn't think twice about that. You had a terrible experience. They didn't listen to you or go back to the, if you trust this person and it was just a weird experience or it's rushed or too slow, whatever. Say, I don't want to do this again.

The second is somebody who has had, I mean, you had a home birth in mind. That tells me you really researched this thing, right? I want it to look like this. I want to experience it like this. A lot of your, I don't want to be dismissive of the pain and all that because that stuff is super real and wild. But a lot of your angst can come from the gap between what you wanted to happen

and what actually happened. And often, that gap, I call it grief. And grieving, like I wanted it to be like this and what actually happened. And often that gap, I call it grief and grieving. I wanted it to be like this and it wasn't. There's something about owning reality. Okay, this is reality. And so this time I'm not going to plan a home birth or this time I am going to plan a home birth and I'm going to be a little more strategic about it, whatever. It's owning what could actually happen. And here's the third part. And this is the not popular part. And this is, my friend told me this, and this is what the clinical literature says. If you've had a hard, like a long labor, prep for it next time. Before you get pregnant, start an exercise routine, start a meditation practice, start eating right. Get as

much sleep as you can with a one-year-old. And I'm saying that knowing that's obnoxious and stupid. But put yourself in as good a physical position, physical shape as you can, knowing that you're going to have to do 48 hours of absolute physical hell. You see what I'm saying? And it will give you some control. It may not make labor any nicer or not nicer or whatever. It may be just world-class crap show. But let's give ourselves the best chance on the front end.

Let's control what we can control, right? Yeah. And let's put the money in the account while we're young, while we can, so that when things happen down the road, we're ready for it. And really, I don't know another, I don't know a lot of other options. What do you think? No, I think that I've already started to, I've tried to start doing that. But again, with a one-year--old it can be kind of a joke It can be but also Um, don't let it be a joke. I want you to go to my friends. Um, the mind pump guys

and They have a new pro they have a whole list of workout programs called maps maps And they just released one called maps 15 It's a 15 minute workout that they use and And these dudes are beefcake McGee's. They're all smoke shows. Like Kelly and I went to visit the studio and Kelly had to catch her breath. Right. They're like, but, but these workout program is 15 minutes a day. You can do that with a one-year-old. You can't do that. Okay. You get a couple of dumbbells and a couple of, and you can do 15 minutes. And my guess is my wife made a,

really took the Y to the cleaners on the childcare. And she went to the gym for an hour, sometimes maybe two hours, sometimes maybe four hours until they were like paging Miss Deloney, right? But some of these gyms have free childcare and it might be a great way for you to get some space to read a book, to journal some, to exercise, right? Take a class, be around other people. So utilize some of that stuff. What I would say is we have a real, it's a cultural issue. And so I don't want to project this onto you because it may not be the case in your home.

But culturally speaking, we've made our children, especially young kids, the epicenter of our planet. And I would suggest you control alt delete your calendar a year in and say, okay, I'm not going to go through a day and not exercise. How's my kid going to be a part of that? Not how can I fit exercise into my kid's world? Okay. I'm not budging on this. So kid, you're coming to the Y childcare and you know what? Everybody's going to live. It's going to be fine. And I'm going to become a mom who sleeps at night, a mom who's a little less stressed, a little less anxious because I'm taking care of myself. I've got to go be with other people. So kid, you're going to have to figure this out because mom's going to go be with her friends and other people because my world doesn't revolve around you because your kid can't hold your world, right? They're not strong enough to hold the epicenter of your solar system. So I'm not even gonna let you do that. You're a moon,

you revolve around me, right? And let's completely shift. And maybe that's something you sit down with your husband and say, hey, we're a year in, we've survived. Let's start building a life that we want, not settling for a life that we think we have to have because we have this 14 pound screaming thing in the house that poops and eats and never sleeps. Does that make sense? Yeah. As the great rage against the machine said, Maria, it's time for you to take your power back, right? Take ownership of your home and take ownership of, okay, I got my butt kicked last time during labor. It was rough. that I'd planned so long for. My body didn't respond how I thought it was going to. I ended up in a physical exertion, like I physically exerting myself in a way that I wasn't prepared for. My nurse didn't listen to me.

I had surgery without anesthesia, right? All these things. Here's what I can control going ahead next time. And recognizing it might be really, really rough again. And that's when we're going to double down, like you said, I'm not going to, when I'm 70, I'm going to hate myself. I would probably wouldn't go there, but what's the table I want in 20 years and what hard things do I have to do now? And I do think sitting down with your doctor and saying, Hey, this was my experience. We're about to go round two of this and I need to have a better experience this time.

I need you guys to listen to me better. I need to plan better, and let's be on the same page here. But congratulations. I'm sorry. I'm sorry it was so rough this time. Control what we can control, get people in our lives, and let's move forward. Best of luck to you. Hey, when this new baby's born, number two, send us a picture, and we'll post it for you. We'll be right back. All right, we are back. Let's go to Jackson. I think it's Chanute, Kansas. Jackson, is that right?

Yes, that is correct. It's Chanute. Chanute nailed it. Yeah. It would be cool if you called it Chanute, but it's cool. Chanute it is. What's up, Jackson? Yeah.

Hey, how you doing? I'm rocking onto the break of. Chanute it is. What's up, Jackson? Yeah. Hey, how you doing? I'm rocking onto the break of dawn, dude. Do you go by Jack or Jackson? Jackson. Listen, I have a buddy whose kid is named Jack. That's a dope name. Jackson's cool, but Jack... Yeah, my nephew is actually just named Jack too, so that's kind of fun. Oh, that's cute.

You have like a family member who likes you? Yeah, I guess my my siblings don't even name their pets after me but whatever all right so what's up um i'm just gonna start off with saying uh it's kind of nerve-wracking so if you'll just bear with me um so and i'm kind of gonna be all over the place but my basic question is, I have a best friend who's in a relationship and he's, um, wanting to, you know, in the near future, whether it's like a month or six months, I don't know the timeframe. He says he's saving up a ring to buy it, to get engaged. They have a promise ring since like two years ago or so. So this has been going on for a long time and

they live together. And, um, he's going to ask me to be his best man because I was his, or he was my best man. And it's kind of just like a, you know, a known thing between us two. We're, we're going to be each other's best man. But if he goes through with this and he, you know, actually gets engaged and marries this, this woman that he's been with for like five years, I really can't see myself saying yes and being his best man because I can't stand by him while he marries this person. And I don't know if that's just like, am I the issue? Like am I, you know, I'm not trying to control him or anything like that. I just, I want to see him thrive and be the best himself.

And this person is not helping him. Um, and I just, I don't know what to do. And I, you know, some of my friends, my other, like our mutual friends, they, uh, they agree with me and, and we're going to hopefully talk to him sometime in the future, if that's what we should do. Um, I just wanted to get your thoughts on the whole thing. That's kind of where I am. Cool. Well, thanks for verbalizing it like that. And thanks for loving your friend. I'm going to go to the very end of this question and work all the

way back. Okay. Okay. Right before this show, one of my best friends in the world called and was going to see a counselor. Brilliant guy. And I recommended a counselor that's known to be the best of the best of the best in this particular city and state. And so my buddy went and met with the person and they hit it off. And then this person said, hey, I'm not taking any new clients, but I'll take you on. We'll figure this out. I'm going to send you on my price sheet and you're going to have sticker shock. And sticker shock is the understatement.

Very, very expensive. Wildly expensive. And you got to pay six months all at once. But this guy's world class. And so my friend called me back and was asking all kinds of like, do you think he's like charging like this? And I checked up the academic credentials and I looked at this and I was checking this. I mean, back and finally I said, Hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Who cares? Who cares? If this person said I charge $5 dollars a session My first thought would be dude if you can get it get it man, like high five I'm not paying that and i'm going to move on to my with my day

Right. So I told him you're carrying a lot of existential angst around trying to figure out Why is this person charged so much and what do they think they're doing that justifies this and I don't know if I can afford This or if I can't afford I don't want to spend that Dude, like I just say like, brother, you're carrying a lot of extra weight. He put a price down and I'm going to say, no, thanks. Have a great day. And I'm going to move on to my next thing. So tying that story back to you, you have a particular set of values and you think that he should not be marrying this person to the point that you've chosen, you've decided, I'm not going to be your best man.

If he asks me, he's going to ask me, I'm going to say no. And so there should be a period at the end of that sentence because you know what's going to come on the back end. He's been with this person five years. He's not going to magically go. Oh my gosh, why? You didn't you don't like her and then he's going to change his whole life. That's not going to be how that that's not why you're Saying no, you're saying no because I can't participate in this not to try to get him to switch change his mind at the last second so Whatever he does on the back end will screw you then forget you we're done like i'm not hanging out with you anymore

You're an idiot That's his choice. You make a grown-up decision. He gets to make a grown-up decision. And you can weep, be heartbroken, be sad, all that kind of stuff. But you can't save your friend like that if he hasn't invited you in. So I would make my values decision and stand on my values. Now, getting a little bit closer to right now, the part of me, like I've got a couple of

close buddies, like I've been in their wedding, been like all that stuff. I'm stunned that you haven't sat him down before now and said, bro, I can't stand by this. Or let me ask you this question. Why are you waiting until he asks you to be his best man to let him know where you stand? That seems abjectly not cool. Yeah, I think I agree with that. And me and another friend of ours were working to kind of sit him down. Let me stop you right there. What is... This sounds like somebody... I mean, he was the best man in your wedding. Like, I don't know what there is to work up.

Like, my best friends, I call and say, dude, what are you doing? Like, that's how the call starts. Or, hey, I just got this text message from you. You're not all right. What's the deal? Like, there's nothing to work up. Like, we've passed working up.

That's what makes them my best man. That's what makes them, like, literally my brothers. Because I don't have to work up anymore. So what is that fear that's in a relationship that I think should be well past all that stuff? I think it's because I'm afraid of losing him after 10 years of friendship because I don't agree with the person

he's going to be with I just am afraid of losing him and him going well you're going to decide what I do Jackson you've already left him you left him and you have every right to do that, but you're already gone You're hanging on to a myth brother

Like you already you've already decided that when he asks me one of the most important questions of his life I'm going to tell him no you're already out of this relationship Now you're hanging on to a picture of what could be if he wasn't in this about to get married to this person He's been with for five years he's going to and so reality has sailed on and you're you're back here this relationship has already changed you just haven't had the courage to tell him it's changed is that fair yeah that's that's fair how do i you how would I even, another thing that I'm kind of struggling with is how do I even bring it up? You know, we never, ever talk about these things.

He never had a say in my wedding. Why should I ever say in his wedding? Like out of the blue, I'm just like, Hey, I don't like this person. You know, like, what do I even, where do I even start? Like, I don't, I don't know where to start. That's a great question. So I would start this way. I would be very, very clear. I've got friends who like, I don't like, like I wouldn't have chosen their wives to hang out with, but they're not bad people that might be too loud or too quiet or too weird, or they don't think i'm funny and i'm the best right jack Like like I don't I don't have they wouldn't have been my first pick but they're great people They're good human beings and I don't mind my kids playing with their kids and they're great moms or great partners to my friend

like so Ask yourself. Do I just not like them or here's two or three or five or ten ways. This person is harmful Completely dishonest cheats on you, forces you to do things that are, I'm watching my friend wither on the vine. You used to be like this, and this person has taken this from you. I've watched it. I've had a ringside seat to this. So I would be very, very clear about what my objections to this other person are. And I would, so that's, that's spending time with yourself. And I wouldn't even do this with another buddy. I would be very

clear about this with myself. What is it that I feel so strongly about that I can't be involved in this relationship at all? I don't want to be in that picture that's going to be taken at that wedding. The second thing is I would sit down with my friend and if you bring somebody else to this type of conversation it's going to feel interventiony or gang up like you're ganging up on him i wouldn't i wouldn't do that i would um if i had this kind of relationship i would tell him hey i failed you brother because i haven't told you the truth for a long long long time. And I should have told you a long time ago and I wimped out and then it just got down the road. And so here we are. I've watched, and that's where you're going to have that list. I've watched my friend wither

away. I've watched my friend get further and further away from the guy I've known for 10 years. And I should have called it out a long time ago, and I didn't. And I can't sleep at night knowing how much I love you and you're my friend of a decade without speaking my mind. And I know this might cost our friendship and I hope it doesn't, but I've got to be honest. And that's how I would do it. I would own the fact that you should have had this conversation three years ago, four years ago, five years ago, and you didn't. And so here we are, right? And just know your friend is going to have an incredibly hard choice, maybe. It may be a very simple choice for him. He may say, oh, thank God somebody finally said something. Or he might say,

well, you just opted out of my life, brother. Go on about your day because I'm marrying her. And cool. You know what I mean yeah yeah I've ran those scenarios in my head and I what do you think is going to happen what are you scared of it's bigger than you think he's just going to walk away from a 10 year friendship

I mean that is basically the whole thing is I come up to him and after 5 years of not saying something, I'm like, Hey, here's the facts. You know, this is how I feel. And he goes, well, then I don't want you in my life anymore. And I lose, you know, we, we play games together all the time where we're constantly texting each other all the time. We send each other videos, funny videos, and our relationship is just so awesome.

Hey, it's Jackson. It's not because it's not a real relationship because you're not being honest with her. You're not telling the truth and you haven't for years. So y'all might share laughs and I've got lots of, I've got lots of associates. People I've known for two decades, three decades that I share laughs and I've got lots of, I've got lots of associates, people I've known for two decades,

three decades that I share laughs with, that I text funny pictures back and forth to that are on long text threads, but they don't know when my marriage goes sideways. They don't know when I screw up as a dad. I've got four or five men that I talked to about that four or five men one or two women and those women are connected to those men like Like there's very very few people I talked to about that stuff And whether you believe that or not this guy isn't that guy Because you've sat across from him for five years and kept a huge secret from him And so in to preserve that relationship. yeah, at some point you come clean. At some point you sit down and say, dude, I should have told you a long time ago.

I'm sorry. I screwed up. And I know this is going to alter things between us. And I know you're going to have to do what you want to do. But here's the layout. Here's what it is. Here's what it is. And for everybody listening, I'm intentionally not asking him what the things are

Because I don't want I don't want All of us having a ringside seat into that's not even that big a deal. Oh my gosh what? He's got to make his call outside of like like physical, um or psychological abuse, right? Um outside of that he's got to make his own call. This is just against my values and I can't be a part of this thing. But I need you to get out of the fantasy, Jackson,

that you have this great killer relationship because it's not. It's built on a house of dishonesty. And so it's time to come clean. And it'll be hard. If you have to write it down, write it down, but it's time to come clean. It'll be hard. If you have to write it down, write it down, but it's time to come clean. And let's start building the relationship that you actually think you have. Let's be real with it.

And then let him make a grown-up decision that the cards fall as they fall. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work.

We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist.

And you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Delaunay. All right, we're back. Let's go to Ann in the home of the Pirates, Pittsburgh. What's up, Ann? Hi, Dr. Delaunay.

How are you? I'm good. A little nervous, but i'll get to my question that i um and that's for your show and i'm not very good at this you have nothing to be nervous about nothing zero things um yeah i know it's just i don't like my voice on tape. It sounds great. I don't know. It sounds great. Okay. All right. My question was about the gaslighting versus someone's story, like what the difference is. Because I've heard that term thrown around a lot, especially in my house in the last year or so.

And then I also heard between your show and your book and a class I had at work recently, they talked about people's stories and the stories you tell yourself. And I just wanted the explanation of the differences and then how I can deal with conversations around that. Let's get, instead of making this very academic and giving definitions, what's the actual challenge you're facing? Are people accusing you of gaslighting them or are people gaslighting you? What are you actually facing? Well, my kids have said, like my husband and I, you know, have gaslit them. Give me an example of a way they say you're gaslighting them or gaslit them.

Like saying, like with their childhood and how they perceive it versus how— Give me an example. Give me an example. Let me think. I'm having a hard time here. Here's a couple of... It's like an overwhelming layer of heaviness over. Sure. There's a few of us have ADHD.

I know I was diagnosed. I strongly believe my husband is too. Me too, me too, me too. And the emotional dysregulation that had happened in the house apparently was causing, um, stress that, you know, when you walk around, like you're walking on eggshells and waiting for somebody to explode. So that was, I guess the, um, what the kids lived with. And I, yes, yesterday I asked my daughter about, um, I had pictures of us on a bike ride or we're talking about a bike ride that we took that was like, it ended up being this

huge long bike ride, um, on this really nice trail. And I'm like, Oh, do you remember that? She goes, well, dad was there. I blacked it out and I'm just crushed by that. Yeah. So here's some, what I would call low level gaslighting that parents do to their kids. Hey mom, that hurt. No, it didn't shut your mouth and sit down.

Hey mom, I'm really hungry. No, you're not shut your mouth and sit down. You're just doing that. I got to go to the bathroom. You're just doing that. Cause you want you,

right? So that's, that's, that can be a little over gaslighting or hey mom Last night you yelled at me and it scared me. I didn't yell at you You're just hearing things again. You're always making up stories about me Or hey mom, it was really scary when you I didn't do that Gaslighting is about power It's about control and it's using disorientation or self-doubt or dishonesty as your tool. Some people gain control by just yelling. I've got bigger muscles than you. I'm bigger than you. Some people gain power, especially in a household and we call it

the one down position. Like, okay, I guess I just won't eat then. If everybody needs three pieces of pizza, I'll just, I'm fine. I probably need to lose five pounds anyway. That's a way to gain control. Another way to gain control is by gaslighting. Making everybody- That's passive aggressive versus gaslighting that, okay, I'm not going to eat now. I can lose five pounds. Well, the definition doesn't matter as much as it's just a way to try to take back control of a room that you feel you've lost control of. Sometimes dads scream and yell. Sometimes moms scream and yell and slam cabinets. That is a body that's dysregulated and it just becomes over emotive. I need to regain power. Some get real, dads are the

worst. My wife calls it Sunday afternoon, dad. When you can feel the atomic energy pulsing out of me and I'm just sitting there on the couch and my kid will say, Hey dad. And I'll go, what? But I don't yell. I'm quiet. And then the kids know, Whoa, just don't go around dad. And then they're like, man, you're hard to be around on Sundays. And I'm like, I didn't say anything. I just say I'm being violent with my silence. Right. Or mom's like around the Thanksgiving table. Well, I guess I didn't cook it right. So next year, I guess we'll just go out. Cause I'm in the, and that's a way to go. No mom, you did a great job. You're so good. right? It's a way to regain control. Gaslighting is a way to gain control is everybody's off kilter.

Everybody is questioning their own experience of reality because somebody who's smarter than them or bigger than them or has more control or autonomy is telling them that their lived experience is wrong. And so if your children grew up with two parents with ADHD and they were, y'all were all over the place and scattered, by the way, my kid is growing up with a dad with rampant ADHD. It's a context. It's not an excuse. I still got to work to be on time. I still got, right. But my kid's growing up with that. And so I've got to be cognizant of what he's going to experience downstream.

And so here's my bigger question. Why are you debating your kids on their stories, on their lived experiences? Why do you feel the need to say, hey, you're remembering this wrong? Instead of saying, I'm so sorry. No, I don't. I don't argue actually with them. It's just that term has come up. Okay.

And my daughter, my youngest one, she's openly admitted that she'll make up things to try to hurt me. Okay. She'll make up things to try to hurt me because of the fact that she thought my husband and I should get divorced, and we didn't. We chose to work out a lot of the issues. Why do you give your daughter a vote? Probably because she's threatened suicide in the past. That's even less of a reason to give her a vote. My kids do not have a vote into my emotional regulation they don't have my permission to hurt my feelings now it doesn't always work like that my body will will react yeah right my my the last conversation or or attack that we had, I stayed like super calm.

Like I thought, who are you? And not that I've ever, I don't, I'm not the one who loses the cool and gets super, super crazy. But I just was able to step back and just listen to what she was saying. And I was like, well, okay. And, you know, sorry, you're hurting right now. And then I just, I took myself and I said, I can't talk to you when you're like this. And we agreed that if we wanted to have conversations about any of these issues that we do it in front of a therapist. Um, but when she doesn't get her way, it's like full-blown attack, and then I just have to endure it. 18.

18. adults and allow kids to call me when they're struggling and use me to throw grenades at as a target so that they can feel better about themselves. I don't allow that. I don't allow my boss to call and yell at me so he or she feels better about themselves. I don't allow my friends or family or strangers to use me as a verbal punching bag So they feel better about themselves And most certainly i'm not going to let my child who has admitted to me whenever I get down I just lie about you because I can I can twist a knife in your back or in your front. I don't care I I don't allow that so from this point forward

When you call and you're in one of those moods and you're trying to hurt me to make yourself feel better, I'm out of the conversation. I'm just opting out. I love you too much for that, and I have too much dignity and self-respect for that. And just put a period at the end. Right. And when you said about the boundary, that's actually what the conversation was about. She wanted to watch a movie in her room and using my Amazon account, she wanted me to give her the password to my Amazon account. And I said, yeah, and that's not a boundary.

I'm comfortable sharing. I said, I've got it on. I'll put it on your TV. But she couldn't find the remote, she said. And I said, and it's on the TV out here, so you could watch out here. But she lost it, and my struggle is I'm trying to make sure she graduates high school because it didn't happen last year. And because of...

Did what you did last year work? Well, she's still alive, and she re-enrolled in school, so I'm not sure. Okay. Because things were changed. Because last year, I was separated from my husband, and we were living in two places, seeing each other. But that didn't seem to make it better for her, us being separated. I thought maybe she would be able to get that breath of not being around the powder keg, but it didn't happen. And I was able to catch my breath and then look back and help, you know, fix my part

of the relationship or at least make steps towards fixing it. Great. Is he becoming a safer place for your daughter to be around? Because you just referred to it as a powder keg. If I'm a 17-year-old girl, I'm out. I can't. It's too dysregulated.

I can't be around that. He is much better, but neither one of the two acknowledge any growth. And because they still have a lot of trauma from the childhood. And the problem was I worked second shift. So they were home with him and I wasn't there to mediate like apparently that's the thing i do all my life so yeah you gotta stop that if you have an abusive husband he's got to be away from the kids or here's what they're gonna do they're gonna turn into adults who never talk

to you all again yeah and if he's not safe good for them for getting out because you should have got him out a long time ago and you know that and you're free to work through it great, wonderful it sounds like your daughter is in a hyper chaotic environment relationally physiologically

psychologically it feels chaotic and my guess is there's also there's also the weed factor in there where they both think that that will help with their anxiety and depression and so hold on hold on hold on hold on whenever a kid who's 18 comes to me and says, I have to do this. My response is not, man, you got to quit. You got to quit drinking. I ain't help. You got to quit smoking weed. My first question is, good Lord, what has happened in your home that is so chaotic that this is the only way you can

navigate through it? And they're probably smoking weed right now, Ann, because it works. It's a terrible long-term strategy, but it's better than the alternative, which is it's sitting inside of a ping ball, like sitting inside of a

I don't know, what do you call it? A bingo ball turner, right? That's the world they live in. It's inside of a blender. Is that fair? Yeah, to some degree. Because there has been change with him. They just won't interact with him. If he walks in the room, my daughter jumps back like he's on fire. And they won't or they haven't been able to.

He's offered to sit with them in therapy to go to a counselor. He's going to counseling, but I've had her in and out of counseling, but for whatever reason, she'll bail on the people. Or we've had struggles trying to connect with providers because of schedule, insurance, all that. And I say, I'll pay out of pocket. And they go, you can't. And, oh, okay, well, and we'll schedule you in six months. And she's seeing somebody at school now. But it's, I can't even, I don't even know what to do with all the, even the radioactivity from her outside of him. Yes. It's a part of her now. You can't expect there to be a

great summer after she attempts suicide or suicidal ideation. A great summer that 18 years of collective chaos suddenly dissipates. This is years. Years. I know.

Okay? So, you're going to have to be patient with your child. And I know they have an adult age, 18. But, there's a little girl in there that's still protecting herself from her dad because nobody else would or nobody else did.

And I don't know what dad did. I don't know if he was yelled and screamed and scared the little girls or if he was abusive. I don't know. No, he didn't. He didn't abuse them that way. But their bodies. It was just that tenseness that you soak up and. Their bodies are telling them not now. And so I would honor that. I would say you have to be respectful in this house. But you don't have to hug him. If you don't want to sit down and

have a one-on-one conversation, you don't have to do that right now. He's working on it. And he has to be a grown man and know that he sowed seeds for 18 years. And this is the fruit. And you can't sow seeds of chaos and rage and anger and screaming at your little kids, and then get mad when they grow up and have to have alternative ways to try to self-regulate because they didn't learn that at home, and they got no skills, and the two people they were supposed to be anchored in the most were, I mean, were jello, right? There was nowhere to anchor into, and they felt like they were untethered. It'sello, right? There was nowhere to anchor into. And they felt like they were untethered.

It's just part of it. You gotta be respectful. And you can't make up lies about me. You can't throw grenades at me. I won't be your punching bag. And I have to understand the chickens come home to roost. So they're here. And now we have to ask ourselves,

what do we want this to look like in 10 years? Let's begin healing that way your kids can or your husband can talk the talk and talk the talk i'm going to counseling those girls will Feel safe when their bodies tell them we're safe Which means he's going to have to act differently for a long period of time He's gonna have to act different he's gonna have to provide a safe environment He's gonna have to write those girls a long period of time. He's going to have to act different. He's going to have to provide a safe environment. He's going to have to write those girls a letter and say, I'm sorry. I wasn't who I should have been. And I'm trying to be different now. And my hope is over time, you'll come to love the new me because I'm working really hard at it.

But I'm not fighting with my kid over an Amazon account. I'm just going to tell him, no. I'm not fighting with my kid over the definitions of gaslighting. You're a narcissist. You're a gaslighter. Those are the two most overused internet, social media nonsense descriptors that are actual diagnostics, right? It's just throwing around. I'm not going to do that. You can have your story.

And I can be sad that you have bad memories of that. I can be heartbroken and grieve it. And then I'm going to be on about being the adult and about trying to grow adults. And I'm going to change my relationships moving forward because that's all I can do. Your daughters deserve that, Ann. And you do too.

We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make

to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back. As we wrap up today's show, it's one of Kelly's favorite bands. She has a tattoo on her neck behind her ear. The Gaslight Anthem. In honor of gaslighters everywhere. The song's called Boomboxes and Dictionaries, and it goes like this. I took a drive today. I thought about you. I thought about a friend who passed and how much we just went through. I saw the shine off the hood of a Cadillac, the sunshine off the hood of a Cadillac. I thought about some things I said,

and some I would take back. I thought about how fortunate I feel to be alive. And if you're scared of the future tonight, we'll just take it each hour one at a time. It's a pretty good night for a drive. So dry up those eyes, dry up those eyes. I still love the way you smile. I still love the ocean. We should remember to slow down more often and maybe we will. Great wisdom. Slow down more often. Look around. Find beauty. It's there. I promise. We'll see you soon.