The Dr. John Delony Show - Should I Tell My Wife I Cheated on Her?

Episode Date: August 22, 2022

In today’s show, we talk with a man ready to come clean about his infidelity, a woman needing to set firm boundaries with her mother, and a mom wondering if she should force her son to go to college or not. Lyrics of the Day: "The Anthem" - Good Charlotte Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. How many times have you cheated on her in eight years? Eight times, and then never again after that. I've decided it's time that I confess this to her, regardless of which way it goes. I'll tell you this, what you did was stupid, and it was selfish, and it was hurtful, and you know that. So I'm not going to applaud you for what you did, but I'm going gonna applaud you for what you did, but I'm gonna applaud you for what you're doing. Whoo! What's up, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show,

coming at you live from Nashville, Tennessee, except we're not live. And I'm actually in a suburb of Nashville, so in Franklin. So most of the things I just said at the intro were not true, but this is the John Deloney Show talking about mental health,

marriage, parenting, relationships, all the stuff. Back to school time, everything. And we are excited that you're, I'm excited, man. I'm just, I'm just, I'm excited. This is kind of a dramatic, I'm just so grateful.

I'm just so grateful that you all keep showing up and listening, telling your friends. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz, 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. Or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. All right, let's go to Steve-O. Steve in Charleston, South Carolina.

What's up, Steve? Hello. Hello. Hello. Can you hear me? I can. Can you hear me? I can. How are you doing today? Outstanding, man. You're not from the southern United States, are you?

What's that? You're not from the southern United States, are you? I'm not originally. Man, you've picked it up. Well done. Well done. I still talk like a Texan. I'm trying to get it out of there.

Hey, so what's up, man? How can I help? It's kind of the first time I'm ever saying it out loud, so just bear with me for a minute. You got it. You got it. So in the beginning part of the relationship between me

and my current life, I was unfaithful. And at one point I ended up leaving because I accepted the fact that I was never going to tell her and I was just going to hold it in and just never break her with

that. And I just let the guilt make me leave the relationship. Um, later on down the line, I made another selfish act of coming back in, um, with the illusion that as long as I am the man that I intend to be and plan to be and want to be for her, that this could just be a dark secret that gets hidden. And here we are years later, and it's eaten away at me. And I've decided it's time that I confess this to her, regardless of which way it goes. And I was just wondering some tips on how I can best convey this to her and support her

during this hard conversation. One, thanks for saying it out loud, man. Thanks for saying it out loud. Thank you. I'm the first person you ever told that? Yeah.

Wow. It all came around because you're shaking uh i started listening to you a few weeks ago and and uh it started eating up and eating up and firing up and firing up inside of me and i i finally realized that i can't be who i want to be holding this secret in yeah and it's also kept you from being the person you've wanted to be all the time in the past too, right? Just find yourself here. Yeah, absolutely. I'm reading between the lines here. Did you cheat on her where you were dating too?

Yeah. You didn't leave your marriage, right? It was pretty much from the point where we started dating to up until I left years ago. Okay. And when you say you left, does that mean you just broke up with her while y'all were dating or you left your marriage? Marriage. Okay. How long have y'all been married?

I mean, since we were 18. Not super helpful because I don't know how old you are now. Oh, sorry. About seven, eight years. Okay. How many times have you cheated on her in eight years? In the first three, eight times, and then never again after that. So in the first three years, was the same person?

No. Tell me about people you're cheating with. I mean, was it people you work with, girlfriends, people from Craigslist? People that on occasion that I went to high school with. And then just random people you meet over the internet. Okay. What happened three years ago that you said no more and you've gone five years from uh violating your marriage uh i realized that you know those actions were part of a were being selfish of me and and just kind of feeding into a selfish behavior that i've had for a while and i didn't enjoy it i didn't enjoy being selfish. Every bit of it came with guilt, but I couldn't seem to

keep myself on the straight path and the illusion of not seeing, not ever having this girl again and losing the opportunity to have a family with her. Uh, it kind of just made me think that I can hide this secret and continue on the straight and narrow, and it would be like it never was and never happened. Here I am. We'll get to how do you tell. There's an important way to do that, a right way to do that, and there's a couple of terrible wrong ways to do it. Here's my concern your reason for quitting cheating on your wife is still utterly selfish you have not you've you don't want to blow this with her you want to have a family with her

you want to stop feeling guilty and what I haven't heard from you is, I destroyed the life of somebody that I love. And there's an empathy, there's a submission, there's a take in the knee. While somebody sits above you and saying, I'm sorry because I've just thrown a grenade in everything you think you know. And I don't hear that in you. I mean, maybe it's the first time I'm saying it, because that's what's in my mind is, uh, that's why, you know, it hasn't occurred again. And that's why I've gotten to the point of feeling as if I need to confess about this because I, I mean, everything we've

built and the person that she thinks she's with is, is wrapped around an entire lie that would change everything from, you know, our whole entire relationship. Okay. So here's kind of the mechanics moving forward, okay? I want you to think of this. The way I was trained to do death notifications by Dr. Andy Young, this guy's a super important man to me, brilliant man, gave me the line, facts are your friends

when you're having hard conversations. I've also been a part of having to let employees go, having to tell people that their kids have passed away. Like my whole career has been hard conversations and I did it wrong for a long time and until Dr. Young gave me some pretty clear guidance. I'm gonna pass that guidance from him through me onto you. Okay. What's about to happen is the death of her life.

Okay. You're about to put a period at the end of everything she thinks she knows, and there'll be a before and after in her life. Okay. Why am I telling you that? I want you to treat it that way. And when you treat it that way, facts are your friends. So here's what that means. Talk way less than you think you need to. The moment you sit down and say, this is a heavy conversation,

her heart's gonna start beating fast and she's gonna have some idea because you did leave at some point, right? Yes. Is there any chance she knows about this and has chosen to not think about it? I think so. I feel as if there's not 100% trust there. And we're kind of just in a charade that she pretends to believe me. Because when I came back, she hasn't had any inklings. So she chose kind of the forget the past, but that doesn't also give me her full trust. A lot of times people will... Which is completely undeserving.

Well, in the same way that you buried part of your life, she's buried part of hers so that we can maintain and just keep heading forward, right? And we think that if we uncover this, it's going to be worse. And what you find out over time is, no, the longer that secret stays buried, the more those secrets become infected, right? And then it becomes less about you cheated on me,

which is huge. You cheated on me multiple times. You made me unsafe. You slept with people off the internet and made me unsafe. Two, was Christmas even real? Was Thanksgiving, right? So it begins to erode everything, right? So talk way less than you think.

Be very specific and very clear. What do I mean by that? Not, I just, there were some times when I experienced unfaithfulness. No. When we were dating on seven different occasions, I on you i had sex with other people then we were married the first three years of our marriage i had sex with eight different people or i had sex with four different people two times each i have not slept with anybody else i've not cheated on you either physically or emotionally in five years. Do you see what I'm saying? That's specific. And then there's a period at the end of that sentence. And I know it's going to break your heart because here's the thing, all the explaining, all of the, she is going to be in full fight or flight. Her ability to process and rationally think through and let's talk, that will be over.

It will be about survival. Okay? So that's number one. Number two, do not lie. Tell all of the truth. Okay? If we're going to go there there let's just go there is there a chance that any of these people were her friends or something that's gonna be even

more explosive on top of the already explosive no okay nope okay okay so don't lie and number three here's what I did here's what I'm doing

and I'm doing. And I'm at your mercy now. Okay. She gets to speak into what healing will look like if there's going to be healing. Okay. So here's what I did. I cheated on you, period. Here's what I'm doing now.

Haven't done anything for five years. I don't have Facebook anymore. I deleted Instagram because I'm not talking to people on, period. Here's what I'm doing now. Haven't done anything for five years. I don't have Facebook anymore. I deleted Instagram because I'm not talking to people on the internet. Here's the steps I've taken. And number three, I know I've hurt you deeply and I know it's gonna take time for us to heal. And what I can tell you is I'm sorry and I'm willing to do whatever it takes.

That's the last thing I'm gonna say. Okay? And she might say, why? What happened? What was going on? I think it's important in that moment to say, I wanna stay in this conversation and not go back yet. I'm sorry.

I violated our marriage. I'm sorry. You deserved better than that and I'm sorry. And I've made steps that it will never happen again, but I know I've got a long way to go. I want you to keep bringing it back to the present, back to the present, back to the present. Okay. Okay. Here's the last thing I'll tell you. I say we're in the John Wick generation of people who watch a lot of movies and they're like, dude, if that ever happened to me, you know what I would do? And I of movies and they're like, dude, if that ever happened to

me, you know what I would do? And I always laugh and I'm like, you have no idea what you would do. Right? Like if that bad guy came in here and started shooting, you know what I would do? You would probably, 98% of the world would duck and run. And that's not a bad thing. You would duck and run, right? You have no idea what her response will be even though you have played it out in your head and I want you to be at peace with the immediate reaction and then understand

this is going to unfold for a while okay what that means is this she might say get out get out and I think the wise thing to do would be to stand up and say I love you. I'm sorry And maybe you have a letter written and you put it right down there and then you leave

Okay She may want to talk and talk and talk and talk I think that's not super wise But also some people just process that way like I said keep bringing it back to the present the present, back to the present. If you take a break, let's take a 30 minute break. Let's take an hour break. And then we can talk about the past. That may be a wise thing to do. And then you can kind of talk, start talking about other things, but she may tell you to get out and she may file for divorce Monday. And she may tell you to get out and she doesn't want to talk to you. She won't return your text, won't return your calls,

and then she'll call you back in a week. Or she may say, man, Steve, I knew this. I knew. I knew. And now you'll have some healing to begin. Or she may say, I'm not leaving you,

you're not getting rid of me, but we've got a lot. You see what I'm saying? You have no idea what the response is going to be, even though you think you know what's going to be. Are you at peace with that? Yeah. No, but yeah. That's a good answer, actually.

That's a great answer. It's something that I've accepted that I will have to deal with, you know, because it's the consequence of my actions. So yes and no. Dude, that's some, that's some brave ownership there. Where'd you learn that? Cause that's new for you. Just, uh, I mean, a lot of it probably came from listening to you the last few weeks and really reflecting back on my life. Um, and realizing a lot of the hurtful things that I've done that, you know, I can't, can't take back, but can own up to them now and move forward being the person that I want to

be. That's awesome. I mean, that literally is the only step you got, right? Is to own what happened and then move on. Do not, don't, don't, don't, don't please. I'm smiling right now. Don't do this. Don't, don't, don't, don't, please. I'm smiling right now. Don't do this. Don't say, hey, I've been listening to this podcast for the last few weeks and I realized I need to tell you something.

Because what that will do is that will diminish the last eight years of deception into, well, this guy I listened to, right? This will be, and remember what I said earlier, the more you talk about you and what you've been experiencing, it diminishes the apology. It diminishes this moment because this moment is going to be about her, right? This coming clean is going to be about her. You're going to benefit from it, right? You're going to walk taller and you're going to sleep deeper than you have in a while, but you might be doing it on a friend's couch.

Are you prepared for her just to say, get out and file for divorce? It terrifies me, but of course, you know, it's a possibility that, like I said, I just have to accept is a possibility. What do you think she's going to say? I don't know. I have two versions in my mind. One, the, you know, like you said, I knew. I didn't fully know, but I know now. And, you know, how do we move forward?

And then the other is... That's your fantasy response, right? Yeah, yeah. And then the more realism comes down to, you know, maybe not kicking me out, but we need to figure out, you know, what the next steps are for this to end. I just, you have this like fantasy. She's gonna be like Go get some beers

And some enchiladas And we're gonna talk about this And we'll figure it out Right Probably not Hey We just got a dream Yes

I'll tell you this What you did was stupid And it was selfish And it was hurtful And you know that Right I agree Yes sir

What you're doing now Is brave and honest And you're heading off into uncharted water. And so I'm not going to applaud you for what you did, but I'm going to applaud you for what you're doing. Okay? Yes, sir. That's a brave, I'm proud of you. I've come to believe over the last five or six years, especially the last three or four in my own marriage, secrets kill. They destroy everything. And then as I've looked at the physiology and biology of secrets, they're so destructive. And so I think you're wise. I think you're wise for your personal health, your relationship, if your marriage, and most importantly,

for that sweet woman that you're married to. Also, dude, I make no illusions about relationships have two players, okay? The time for, yeah, but you, that will come in counseling on the back end of this, okay? This will be about you taking ownership of what you've done. Have you read my new book? I have not. Okay, hang on the line, I'm gonna send you a free copy.

And ironically, the name of the book is "'Own, Change Your Future, and that's you, right? Yes, sir. Like, here's where we are, and I got to own what happened, and then we got to make some plans for moving forward. Will you do me a favor and reach out to me and let me know how it goes? Yes, sir, I will. Okay. Yes sir I will You know what I'm thinking here I'm about to hang up here But I think it would be wise to hand write a letter And put it in an envelope and seal it

And Give it to her Because she's going to go into fight or flight When you tell her this stuff And When people Should the letter be when people Should the letter be just basically what I would be saying

to her out loud? No, the letter is more I love you and I screwed up. It's going to be less specific. You don't need to say in the letter I had sex with eight different people. You don't need to say that. Say, I understand that I hurt you deeply

and I understand that you're gonna feel like you're crazy and you're gonna feel like the last eight years of your life have been a lie the last 10 or 12 years of your life have been a lie and while it all hasn't been a lie i do understand it and that you'll go to your grave um heartbroken that you broke her heart and that you're asking for her forgiveness and you're willing to do what it takes to move forward together. Okay? But there's something tangible about it

and that way she can feel it and see it and read it again and read it again and read it again. It won't be an excuse thing. It won't be a, well, I just did this. None of that. It's going to take full ownership, but it's letting her know I love you

and I'm willing to do what it takes to move forward. Are you willing to do what it takes? I don't put words in your mouth. Yes, sir. Okay. That's what I hear that in your voice. Brother, I'm proud of you. And you got some hard, hard, hard steps to take.

And it's going to get way worse before it gets better. But I'm proud of you. And you're doing the right thing. You're doing the right thing. Holler back at me. Let me know how this conversation goes. And we will be thinking about you. Talk way less than you think. Facts are your friends. Do not lie. Ask her how you can participate in her healing if she'll have you. And be prepared for this thing to get way off the rails, way off the rails. We'll be right back.

Alright, we're back. Let's go out to Kate across the border in Ontario. What's up, Kate? Hey, Dr. John. Thank you so much for taking my call. Of course. What's up? Well, I called into the Ramsey show in June and I talked to Dave and Rachel. During that call, some boundary issues I have with my parents

came up and at the end of that call, some boundary issues I have with my parents came up and at the end of that call, Rachel suggested I dial up Tony so that's what I'm doing. There it is once again. I'm bailing out Rachel because I'm just kidding. Love it.

Can I give you some backstory? Yeah, I'd love to hear it. Tell me what's going on. Thank you. In 2017, my parents gifted myself and my husband a down payment for our home.

It was very generous. They wanted to bless us. Fast forward to April 2021, we started the baby steps. Now we're on baby step four and six. In December 2021, my grandmother passed away and left me some money. My mother, who's the executor of the estate, asked me what I want to do with the money. I told her my husband and I would like to use the money to complete baby step six to pay off our mortgage. She told me she wants me to use the money for home repairs and to put into my specific tax advantage retirement accounts. She wants the money to, quote, remain mine in the event of a divorce.

She also said that if we pay off the house with this inheritance money, quote, my father's family will have paid for almost the whole thing. Your husband should pay for half. I'm just wondering how to keep boundaries. Sounds like your mom is a huge fan of your husband. Oh, you know what? And the thing is, she actually loves him so much. Is your mom divorced? Did she get left?

No, my parents are together. I believe my dad was divorced prior to his relationship with my mom, but I only know that from a passing conversation that I've heard in childhood. Maybe one day ask your dad that question. That'd be cool to know just where you come from. That seems like family 101. Okay. Let me give some insider baseball to our listeners here. Thank you. So Kate is trying to pay off all of her debts, right? So she found herself, did you have credit cards, student loan debt and all the stuff, owned cars, loans and all that kind of stuff? We had a car loan and a student debt for my husband's doctorate degree and it is all paid off and we're so excited. Okay. Awesome. Congratulations.

Emergency fund is done. Sweet. So the average listener listening to this, there is a direct correlation to your mental wellbeing and your relational health and even your physical health and this idea of safety and the idea of autonomy. If your body knows you're not safe and the body knows you're not in control of your life, it will cascade stress hormones through you all the time. And we know from genetics and we know from behavioral neurobiology

and we know from experiences, people respond in a number of different ways, whether it's anxiety and depression, all these different things to these stress responses. And one of the chief stressors of our time, and if you look at a map, I'm sorry, a graph, and you were to chart the increase of debt in the United States over the last 100 years,

it putts along, putts along, and then it shoots straight up. You could lay over that mental health diagnostics. You could lay over that all different kinds of maladies in our culture. And I am convinced, in fact, I'm working with some PhD students on a study. So I can prove it. There is a direct correlation, direct causal correlation between the amount you owe on things and your well-being. And the problem is we live in a culture that sells debt as a way of being. It's the air we breathe.

It also says that – I don't go down a rabbit hole there. So my friend Dave Ramsey has got a plan on how to get out of debt, right? Here's how you just do this. And here's how you free yourself and your family. And quite honestly, you really do a lot of work on your mental health and relational health. So that's where Kate finds herself.

And so what was the original, like when you were getting married and your grandmother was gonna bless y'all with a house down payment, how much was it? My parents gave us a house down payment of $50,000. Okay. So your parents gave you 50 grand. And then what's the inheritance that you've received from your grandmother? 166. I've received about half of it due to just estate red tape. I should receive

the remaining half-ish in about a year or in the next year. Okay. So to the listener, there's going to be a debate between whether do we invest this money so it grows while at the same time paying mortgage interest rate. And then someone's going to say, but it could grow at 10% and your mortgage is only at 3%. So you're actually, if you pay your mortgage off, you're being stupid because that money could earn 7%. You can earn that gap and blah, blah, blah. Here's what I am hell bent on on this show is solving for freedom, solving for peace.

And in my personal life, you can take the 7% and set it on fire as far as I'm concerned because I don't wanna owe anybody anything concerned because I don't want to owe anybody anything because if I don't owe anybody anything, my body goes, and most of us, especially our parents and families have never exhaled

because we've always had a car payment or a student loan or a home payment. And that's why people get bananas to pay everything off, even if the math might be different, right? It might work out differently. So you are saying, Kate, you and your husband are choosing freedom,

not some imaginary return in the market that may or may not happen down the road, right? Exactly. Okay. So let me first say, if I was in your seat, your situation, I would do exactly the same thing you're doing, 100% to the letter.

Okay. So my advice is not mathematical. My advice is, here's what me and my wife would do in our home. And then what I would do is I would spend the next 20 years with no house payment, no car payments, no nothing payments. And you want to talk about wealth accumulation? Sister, it's going to pile up in a wild way. Okay. So here's the bigger boundary issue. And I'm going to be kind of direct with you. Okay. I don't want to talk bad about people that love you and that you love, but I'm going to be pretty straightforward with you. Is that cool? I appreciate the direction. Thank you, Dr. John. Your mom does not get a vote. Your grandmother did not leave your mom a bunch of money with a few ideas for how she could spend it. She left it to you.

And she left it to you because she trusts you. If you were a drug addict, you were struggling with addiction, you were struggling with whatever, you violated your grandmother's values, she would not have put $166,000 in your pocket. I agree. And said, I trust you do with what you wish. Now, when it comes to some arbitrary mathematical, whatever she's saying about your husband is dumb. That's just dumb.

Here's the reality. You've gone all in with this guy. Do y'all have kids? No, we don't. Are you going to have kids someday or no? No, I don't think it's in the cards for us. Okay. So you're not going to have kids. So y'all, it's just ride or die. You too, right? Exactly. And I love him and they've, they've known him a long time and they love him too. She's just, she's very concerned about like my personal safety. Yep. And I think she equates this, this money being quote mine to my safety.

Gotcha. And what I would say is when you get married, and this is a very unpopular man, I'm just going to, I'm going to get all kinds of great YouTube comments on this one. I'm telling you, Kate, don't read the comments on when this episode comes out.

Oh no, sir. If you go all in with somebody and you say, I'm going to get married to you, then your stuff is his stuff. And your cancer diagnosis is y'all's cancer diagnosis. And

your inheritance becomes y'all's inheritance. And his debt becomes y'all's debt. Y'all are in this thing together as a single entity. And when you hedge your relationships, the big one that I get a lot of grief for is having separate checking accounts. Yes, we're going to make humans together. Yes, we're going to buy a house together. We're going to do

all these things, but I get my money and he gets his money. That's a hedge because I don't fully trust him. And if you're not all in and he's not all in, then your marriage is going to have a hole in the boat, right? The only way it works is go all in. And what does that mean? When you go all in, you know what can happen? You can get hurt really, really bad. So I'm also going to be honest with you. There's a chance you pay off this house and you pay off the mortgage and you'll pop a bottle of champagne and he files for divorce the next day. Yes. That could happen, right?

That's the, I could happen. It could, it could happen. And I, I said to her in a conversation, I think if that did happen, you know, the next day or in five years, I think the hurt I would have would not be healed by half of one. It wouldn't be healed by $83,000. Yes, exactly. Yes. And yes.

And I think that's the other important thing to remember here is you've got $83,000. So let's say he takes half. Takes half of your house and half of the retirement and half of the whatever. You're still not starving, right? No.

You'll still have your needs met and you'll have a place where you can grieve because it would be a mess. Because not because he just took your money, but he took your trust and your soul and all these things that hopefully are never going to happen, right? Right, exactly. But following your mom's logic up the trail, the next step is you need to keep something for you. And the next step is you need to protect yourself because you might get hurt. And the next step is you shouldn't have got married in the first place because that could lead

to hurt. And then the next step is you shouldn't even date because dating might open your heart. And when you open your heart, you could get hurt. You see what I'm saying? Like if you follow the logic all the way up, there's nowhere to stop. The only place to stop is all in, right? So the best, sometimes I give advice here on situations that I've not experienced. Um, what I haven't experienced is, but I'm telling you 100%, if my wife, if, if, uh, both of my grandmothers have passed away, if I had gotten a check for $166,000 from either one of my grandparents, it would have gone directly to paying my house off. End of story. Exactly. And I feel very comfortable with the financial part of it. It's more just the relational part that if and when she asks, what did you do with that pile of money? Yeah. So I just, I don't want an ugly situation. Thank you. You don't get to choose the ugly situation.

She might. And there's not a lot you can do on this end except be respectful and treat her with dignity and say, I'm doing what I think's best for me and my family. If she chooses to throw a temper tantrum or chooses to act like a child because she didn't get her way, that's a choice she's made. That's a choice she's made.

That's a grenade she's thrown, not you. Does that make sense? It does make sense. And so at the end of the day, I think a wise conversation, it sounds like you and your mom have a pretty good relationship. Is that fair? We do. We're close. We talk lots. We have disagreements. We've had fights, but pretty normal mother-daughter stuff. So don't get sucked into the this is a math problem conversation because it's not. This is a mom who loves her daughter. And this is a mom who's either experienced it or has friends who's experienced it or watches a lot of late night TV and doesn't want her daughter to get hurt. And the fact is you went all in,

you got married. And so you are vulnerable and your husband's vulnerable. And the chance y'all can hurt each other is real. And the chance you can love each other and get something better out of your life than you could have ever imagined is also real. And so here's the conversation I would have, or let me just be honest. Here's the conversation I have had when me and my parents have had disagreements. You raised a good son and you raised me to be thoughtful and wise and smart and to seek wise counsel.

Trust me with the decision I'm making on my life. And at least in my life, every time my parents have exhaled and said, you're right. Thank you for that. That was very thoughtful and respectful. And I think she might respond well to that. And she can give you a hard time.

And you can tell her with a smile on your face. If he leaves me and takes half of everything, I will pay for dinner and I will make a cake that says you were right. I mean, like, I'll acknowledge it. I love to bake, but I hope not to bake that one. Yes, that would not be a good one. I do know this is a delicate situation. I do think you are incredibly wise. And I think you are being a great steward of this money.

By the way, is that what Dave said too? Please tell me I'm right. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, good. Keep your job. Yes. Good.

That's exactly what Dave and Rachel said and what Dave and George said in a previous call. And again, I feel very comfortable with the financial aspect of the decision. It makes sense. I've weighed options, but this is the choice that feels right for myself and my husband. So lean into your mom and tell her, hey, you did a good job. You raised a good, smart, wise daughter. And I realized that marriage can hurt me real bad.

And marriage can be incredible too. And I'm gonna choose freedom this time with this incredible gift. We're choosing freedom. And your gift plus grandma's gift gives us incredible freedom. And now me and my husband can put all of our money towards giving, all of our money towards saving,

all of our money towards joy in our home and in other people's homes. And now we're gonna be free. And maybe for the first time in a generation, we're going to be free. We're going to be free. We're going to be free. And man, what a blessing.

It's pretty cool. Man, I hope I have great daughters like you. I really do. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever.

Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic

life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks

with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Diloni to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, let's go to Lisa in Hilton Head, back to South Carolina in the South. Hey, Lisa, what's up? Hi, how are you? Good. Sorry, I don't know how to work the phones. I'm figuring it out.

That's okay. I don't know how this job works. That's okay. What's up? How's it going? Good, good. We have a college freshman, a rising college freshman who is due to move into his dorm in literally two weeks and has recently come to us and said he is not sure he is ready to go to college yet and would maybe possibly like to take a semester to a year off and work instead. A little background about him is he's had a full-time job since he graduated from high school and has loved working. He loves

working full-time. He loves making money. He's also a kid that doesn't like changes. So he's always had to be nudged a little to take risks and do new things. And I guess my question is, my husband and I really value education. And we know that it's much more than just a degree. It's learning to live on your own, learning to live in a dorm with other people. And we want him not to miss out on that experience. But I guess we want to know how to support him to make a good decision without pushing him in one direction or the other. I love this question, Lisa. So one, thanks for

caring enough about your son to be thinking this way. And two, thanks for calling and asking. I often marvel at my parents. I tried to quit high school athletics when I was a freshman and they said, no, they wouldn't let me quit. And I got all bent out of shape and ended up being the greatest decision ever. Things I did this morning in my, like the exercises I did this morning, the seeds were planted back when I was in high school. And my little brother quit when he was a freshman. They let him. I got so mad. I was, I think I was in college. I think I was in high school. And my little brother quit when he was a freshman. They let him. I got so mad.

I was, I think I was in college. I think I was a freshman in college. I was like, you're letting him quit? It's ridiculous. He was a different kid with different experiences and different, right? And they somehow knew the difference and it was the great right decision for him. And so, and he was working out this morning in the gym too.

And we, right, so all I have to say is this. That's a great intuitive question. Just my gut reaction, having worked with countless college students and countless college parents, my gut reaction to this situation right now is, send him and say, we're going to give you an off-ramp if you want it.

Right. Okay. There's something about, I'm doing this with my daughter now. She would prefer, she was a COVID kid, right? So her formative years, preschool, kindergarten was all at home and masked up. And so now the world's back open and it's like, hey, you got to do an instrument and you're going to have to do jujitsu or a sport. And she's like, I'd rather just sit at home and color.

And so I have to say, okay, do this, but in three months, we're going to give it 90 days. And then if you're done, you're done. I'm good with that. But I want you to try new things. Of course, she went to her first piano lesson and loved every set, right? So I think you are right to say,

we totally hear you. We're going to make you a deal. We're not going to hold it over your head and we're not going to go bananas if you go for one semester and say, I'm out, I can't do this. We'll check in with you. We'll drive down to wherever school is

in one month and 30 days and we'll take you out to dinner and we're going to get a pulse on how things are going. Right. And maybe some, some notes on the calendar along the way that give him some landmarks, right. Um, that might be real helpful. And maybe he has to do a couple of things. You're going to have to get involved in one, one group. Like you have to do one thing, right. With one group of wackadoo college students. Um, you can't just go in your room and play Halo and then in September say you hate it and you want to come home.

Right, right. Maybe he's got to get a job or something. College is what you make it. So you can make it great and get involved and get out of your comfort zone some and do things. And you'll look back on those and those will be the greatest experiences that you ever had,

but you wouldn't have had them had you not pushed yourself. But let me, let me, let me catch you on two things. It was your greatest experience ever. And it might be miserable for him. So we have to hold that loosely, right? Sure. Go into big, crazy concerts with the crowd is all chaotic. Those are some of my most formative,

wonderful memories. My son doesn't like it, doesn't like it that much. And I keep saying, yeah, but if you just go do it and finally it's like, Oh no, he's a different, right.

Does that make sense? So that your experience, it was the most formative, incredible. And you see other kids have it. That doesn't mean it's his. The other thing is it's college is going to be what you make of it. Is a really intimidating

layout. It's intimidating landscape to someone who's had their school lives curated, their home lives curated, their work lives curated. They've never had to make it. They don't have that skill. You know what I'm saying? So it's like putting somebody in the batter's box of a major league picture and saying, just swing the bat. It's like a ball's coming 90 miles an hour. I don't know what to do with that. Right. So it can feel very much that way. So when we say it's going to be what you make of it, going back to what I said earlier, break it down. Once you get involved in one group, I want you to,

I'm going to put a little bit extra money in your account and I want you once a week, you and your roommate, just go hang out, go to dinner on me. Right. Um, in October by October one, you need to have a job, part-time job somewhere in the community. And let's, right. Let's, let's get involved with the film club, get involved with the drama club, get involved with the intramurals or whatever. You got to do one thing. Sure. And right. That's different than it's going to be what you make of it. I don't even know what that means right as a high school kid I was all about making it it is going to be what I make of it

I knew what that meant other people that I loved don't have the skills for that and that's fine I didn't have skills for sitting down and studying and paying attention I was too busy having it be what I made of it right exactly you said something earlier that I was too busy having it be what I made of it. Right, right. Right.

Exactly. Here's the, you said something earlier that it's going to be hard for you and your husband. And this is tough. You two value education in a major way. I value education. I spent my life doing it. My wife is a lifelong educator. Here's how much we value it. Our son told us for, nevermind, I don't want to say private stuff. I can just say, I looked at my

wife and I was like, this is what happens when nerds raise a nerds, right? We value education. I also have to know that my son may come to me one day and say I want to be a diesel mechanic I'm gonna be the best damn diesel mechanic that's ever listed existed And i'm gonna take him out to dinner and say awesome Right, and I have pictures of him playing frisbee on the lawn at stanford the chances of that happening are very slim Sure, right and it won't be intellectual. It won't be like his brain capacity. It's going to be what his life wants to look like. So you guys value it very, very much.

I would say it might look different. Education just simply looks different in many corners of the world these days. So don't hold your son hostage to your dreams or more so your picture of what you think his life is going to look like. Right. Does that make sense? And that's so hard. Absolutely. Yes, it is hard because you want them, of course you want the best for them. You want them to do well and be successful and whatever that looks like, whether it's working or college or what have you. But here's the thing though, parents, we don't get credit for this.

And I think I've talked about this on the show here. One of the, if you had to have me distill down one of the top two or three moments I've been most proud of my son, he came to me and my wife at Christmas last year and said, I need to have a family conversation. I think I mentioned on the show, I was like thinking in my head, are you already smoking?

Like, really? You're 12, right? And he sat us down, me and my wife. And he said, I would like to ask to not play baseball this spring. But instead, I want to be in the school play. I want to do theater. And yes, I did theater in college. My whole career is based on acting and theater. I was like, yes, I did theater in college. My whole career is based on acting and theater.

I was like, yes. And my granddad played baseball. My dad played baseball. I played baseball. Right. And it hit me. Oh, crap. This is going to be the first spring we don't do baseball.

Like a Deloney guys. Right. And so I had to, without even thinking about it, I had created a world where this is what our life is going to look like. And my 12 year old son bravely sat down and said, I want it to look like something different. And so it's both. And I, as a parent get to grieve the fact that it's, I had a picture and it's going to be different. Right. I get that. If your son says does a semester in college And he makes straight C's And he said guys

Right now I'm 18 This isn't it for me I want to go to mechanics Does he have something else in mind he wants to do Well his passion is film And writing scripts And doing like editing And there is a school

Out of state Much more out of our budget. And so that's not really an option right now. It could be down the road if he wants to work and match the remaining portion to be able to go there. But to be able to go there immediately out of high school was not going to be an option. And I think there is some immense value in like a screenwriter's got to learn how to write first, right? And a videographer often has to learn what a story is and what an arc is and take a psychology class and a, and be around wackadoo people, and how to manage artists, right? All those things. So I would tell you, and by the way, you can't afford it, so that is what it is.

Right, right. I think there's a way, whether there's a film major or a way to be involved in that, to get into your local theater program. There's a way to get into your local fill in the blanks, right? Right. There's a way to get that experience while also getting your feet underneath you as a freshman in college, right? So it's not an either or is what I'm saying. Yes.

And it sounds like based on what you told me about him, it sounds like he's just getting really cold feet and he's got another idea. Right, right. Yes. I think the fact that he's enjoyed working and the fact that he likes making money and he knows what his goal is as far as careers down the road, he's kind of thought, well, I don't want to waste your money and go into this school when maybe I should just go and save my money until I can go to the other school. But we told them, you know, get your degree or at least get two years under your belt at the in-state, you know, more affordable school, and then you can reevaluate, you know, from there. Yeah. I'm a big believer, and I get some pushback on this. I got

colleagues that disagree with me and that's fine. That's totally fine. Um, I don't believe in the phrase those, that education was wasted. Right. Um, people often tell me like, oh, so stupid. I got a degree in teaching and now I do this as such a waste. And I tell them it was not a waste. Right. I agree a hundred percent with that. Yes. Even if it was finding out, if you told somebody, Hey, it's going to cost you this much money to find out something that you never, ever, ever want to be a part of. And sometimes that's a good investment, right? Right. Sure. Because I spent a lot of money chasing things that, oh my God, I wish I wasn't doing that. All I have to say is often the idea of that was a waste of time. I spent a lot of money chasing things that, oh my God, I wasn't doing that. All I have to say is often the idea of that was a waste of time, that was a waste of money is a frame of mind.

Right. My first PhD in education was absolutely, I'm not doing it. I'm not using it at all. And it was one of the most valuable experiences of my life. Right. You know what I mean? And so it's just, it's essentially priceless. You're exactly right. Right. You know what I mean? And so it's just, it's essentially priceless. You're exactly right. Right.

But I could also say, oh, what a waste of time. What a waste of money. That was so stupid. It wasn't. Right. But I'm not technically using it, but I'm using it every second of every day, right? All I have to say is you know that. I'm just, that's more for the listener.

Right. And I do have a immense bias towards education. I do. Yeah. And there's a truth there. So you're calling me, ask towards education. I do. Yeah. There's a truth there. So you're calling me, ask my opinion. I am biased. I also have worked with thousands of 18-year-olds.

And man, they get nervous and they get scared and they think, Right. And I think parental wisdom, especially not parental insane demands and parental, you're going to be a lawyer because it's going to make me feel, right? That's not what you're doing.

You're saying, I know my kid, you need to go ahead and do this. Yeah. Right? And I think that's love. That's great advice. With a,

circling back to the very beginning, let's put some markers on a piece of paper. We're going to come visit you on this day and this day and this day. You're going to have to let us know a group you've joined by this day. If you are in the film club or in the theater department or whatever, we're going to come see you, whatever productions you do. And you and your husband are like, hey, we got a budget for this

and figure this out because we're going to go be involved here. And you come home at Christmas and sit down and write us a three-page essay on why this isn't for you. We're going to read it and we're taking you out to a fancy dinner. And then we're going to go look at other schools. We're going to go look at other things. Perfect. Does that make sense? That's a perfect point. Yes, absolutely. Thank you for that. Oh, you're so great, Lisa. Word of wisdom. I appreciate it.

He is lucky, lucky to have you. Parents, all parents listening, it is so okay. It matters okay a matter of okay, it's right. It's good to have a vision, a picture of your kid's life. It's also good and right to say, I know you don't quote unquote feel like doing this. I'm your parent. This is what we're doing right now. And it's also wise and good to give your kids choices

and options and exit strategies. We often make them either or. Either I go to film school or I do this. I want you to try this. I want you to practice this. I want you to lean into this. Be curious about this. I'm going to foot the bill. I'm going to help out. And if it doesn't work, I'm going to high five you. We're going to throw a party and then we're going to turn left. And if that don't work, we're going to turn right. But I want you to have these experiences and I'm your parent. That's my job is to be wise and to continue to speak into your life. There's a reason why culturally all across the world, there's not a mad release of 18 year olds into the world. There is mandatory military service. There is additional

education. There is a time, a natural time when there is begins to be a separation where somebody begins to find their adult footing. Doesn't have to be college. Doesn't have to be a four-year university. Doesn't have to be an Ivy League school. Absolutely not. It can be a, I'm taking a year. And in this year, I'm just gonna work, man. I'm 18. I'm just gonna work at McDonald's. I'm just gonna work down the street. I'm gonna get my feet under me.

I'm gonna learn some skills. I'm gonna learn some tasks. And mom and dad, I'm gonna be hyper-intentional. We're gonna go to lunch once a week. And we're gonna just talk about how you're developing and growing. We're gonna read some books together. We're gonna do some developmental things.

Or you're going straight to the military. You're gonna learn some discipline. You're gonna learn under the wisdom and tutelage and experiences of other adults in your life. But this idea that you turn 18 and you're free to run the world, it's not safe, it's not smart, and it doesn't make any sense.

And culturally for bajillions of years, we've understood this innately. And over the last 15, 20 years, we've just said, hey, do whatever you want to, whatever feels good. And this also works in reverse, by the way. Some kid says, I'm going to MIT, I'm going to MIT, I'm going to MIT. There comes a moment as a parent

and you look at your kid and say, I know you, you're not. Or if you want to pay for it, you can walk out the front door. I can't keep you from doing it, but it's not wise for you. The wisest choice for you is X and Y. And there's all these stories of the kids. They're like, I'm doing it anyway. And they go on and start a company and make a billion dollars. There's a million of those. I've sat with, there's a few of those. I've sat with countless folks, countless over the years in my office, behind closed doors, heartbroken young people,

heartbroken parents who tried to force a thing that wasn't forcible. All I'd say is be intentional with your kid, have them try things and also give them off ramps. Most importantly, be intentional, be intentional, be intentional. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here.

Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life.

Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, thanks for being with us. Man, Ike just walked in. Ike's one of the best guitarists I've ever seen. I've never actually seen him that I know. But secretly, he's a shredder. But man, his favorite band ever is Good Charlotte.

He loves them. He knows all the Good Charlotte songs. I don't think that's true, but we're going to go with it just as a crew. And his favorite Good Charlotte song, he actually has this tattooed on his chest. It just, if he takes his shirt off, which he does all the time, just right across the top of it, it says the anthem. So this is his favorite song tattooed on his body. Song's the anthem and it goes like this.

It's a new day, but it feels old and it's a good life. That's what I'm told. But everything, it all just feels the same. At my high school, it felt more to me like a jail cell, a penitentiary. My time spent there only made me see that I don't ever want to be like you. I don't want to do the things you do. I'm never going to hear the words you say. And I don't ever want to. I don't ever want to be like you. Don't want to be just like you. What I'm saying is this is the anthem. Throw all your hands up. You, I don't want to be you.

It's kind of heavy. I didn't expect that coming. I thought Good Charlotte was like a happy band. We'll see you soon.