The Dr. John Delony Show - Should You Let a Family Member’s Bad Decisions Affect Your Life?

Episode Date: January 4, 2023

Today, we hear from: - A woman unsure of how to care for her unstable, unsafe and uncaring brother-in-law - A mom wondering if and how she should tell her kids that her ex (their father) abused her - A 33-year-old who knows it’s time to move out of his mom’s house but feels stuck Lyrics of the Day: "Because of You" - Kelly Clarkson  Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I need some help figuring out how to tell my mom and brother that I want to move out of my mom's house. I'm 33 years old. I'm embarrassed that, you know, I live with her. I hope you hear it in my voice. I got no shame on this. I'm proud of you for being 33 and saying now's the time. Yo, yo, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, the greatest mental health and marriage and parenting podcast ever recorded. I'm so glad that you are with us and you are giving us your most precious resource, your time, and I'm just grateful today. I'm grateful. We're into the new year. 2023 is off to a rip-roaring start. I hope it is because

we're recording this before this, but it's off to a great start, and I hope you haven't already quit on yourself yet. You made some resolutions. Here's who we're going to be. Here's what I'm going to, here's some things I'm going to do to back up My new identity Hope you haven't already given up And if you have, start again today Start again right now You can do this

We're all doing this one this year Alright, let's go to Trudy in Georgia What's up, Trudy? Hey, Dr. Galani Thanks for taking our call And our thanks to your wonderful staff for their help we're in a pickle hold on are they wonderful are they are wonderful okay i fully agree with you i agree with you they're all looking at me very mean very very mean they are wonderful all right

so true you are in a pickle which is the is the most Georgia thing you could say right now, except for go dogs. All right. So why are you in a pickle? I've got a 50-year-old brother-in-law. He smokes four or five packs of cigarettes a day, drinks a lot. He's a hoarder. He's got multiple addictions. He doesn't treat my husband well.

He's a master manipulator. And he ended up in the hospital. And we got a call at 3 a.m. a couple of weeks ago that they had to put him on a ventilator, and we need you to make these decisions. We have no clue what he wanted, but we did the very best that we could, and while he was on the vent, we found out that he has a 16-year-old daughter we didn't know about. His hoarding's out of control. There's a pornography addiction. His heat was cut off. He's been telling damaging lies about my husband, and his friends are calling him a habitual liar. The hospital got him healed up.

He's off the vent. We had him set up for rehab, but he refused it, and he checked himself out of the hospital. And we've been talking about this, my husband, Rob and I, and we're ready to walk away, but we know that another call is going to come in the middle of the night. And so we had a couple of questions for you and wondered if you could help us know how do we handle the next call that comes for the next if can. Should we try to meet our niece? And then for me, the guilt just bites. I was raised to take care of family, but enough is enough. My father-in-law called me two weeks before he died. Both of my in-laws have passed away and he called me two weeks before he died and he asked me to take care of the brother-in-law.

And it's just a hot thinking mess. And we were, if any words of wisdom you could share with us, we'd really appreciate it. Yeah, I've got a lot of opinions on this one. Hey, let me bring Rob in. And I want to hear what he has to say first. As well, in addition to what you just brought to us. But yeah, I've got some, as you can imagine, I've got an opinion. Hang on one second.

Hey, Rob. Hey, Rob. Hey, Dr. Nalani. Thank you for taking our call. You got it, man. What's up, Chuck? All right. So your, your, Trudy says you've got, you're all in it, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. We're in a. What's your side? In a hard place that's been hard for a very long time. That's right. This is most of my life. Well, can I tell you this?

Before you say anything from what Trudy said, it sounds to me like this has been hard for a long, long time and is a very simple yet very difficult path forward. Super, super difficult. All right, so tell me what you're working through. My parents were very much enablers of this. They just kind of looked past it. Oh, that's how he is.

And I swear if I hear anybody else say that, I might hit them. But, you know, this behavior has gone on so long and been allowed so long that I just— Rob, let me ask you, why are you involved at all? Your brother— Well, yeah. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Your brother and your parents, by their behavior, told you, here's what we think of you. And you have continued to say, yeah, but okay, I'll figure out a way to make the relationship better. I'll figure a way to fix this. And not one time did brother or mom or dad ever ask you

to fix it. They told you, here's the way we're choosing to live our life and for some reason you have tried to stay connected to this madness why yeah i i don't the only thing once me and trudy were established as a couple uh was we had kids and we wanted them to know their grandparents. Their grandparents weren't bad people. Okay, that's fair. And just because they didn't have good boundaries or they enabled, I don't think your parents are bad people, but you can not be a bad person. You can be a fine person, but I can't spend time with you.

You know what I mean? Some of my closest friends, I don't say some of my closest friends know what I mean? Some of my closest friends, I don't say some of my closest friends, friends I've had for all of my life. I don't want them to spend a ton of time with my kids, if any, right? I love them, but I've got some pretty significant boundaries with them too.

Okay, so bring me forward. Your brother's real, real sick. You stepped in, had to make some out of the blue hard calls in the middle of the night, probably some life oror-death calls. Yeah. You guys set up a plan.

You thought, okay, this is going to scare him straight, and he just walked right back into who he was and how he was. Oh, and by the way, you have a niece that you didn't know about. Yeah, we didn't even find that out from him. We found that out through trying to track down his insurance, and a man asked me, he said, well, can you name his dependent? And I'm like, well, he shouldn't have one. He's like, well, we have a 16-year-old girl listed.

And that's how I found out I had a niece. And my parents had a granddaughter they never knew anything about. Which, the way you're saying that and the way, Trudy, the way you explain that, y'all sounded surprised, yet nothing in your brother's behavior pattern would suggest this is a surprise. Yeah, I would say I don't get really surprised anymore. It's just, you don't need to. These things come out of nowhere. Of course. That's right.

That's right. But I'm not surprised any lot about it. That part's not a surprise. So how can I help you? Trudy, are you there? I'm here. Yep. So what comes next for y'all?

How can I help you with what comes next? So how do we handle the call that comes at 3 a.m. for the next of kin? The next call that comes. What do you mean? So the hospital calls us and says, hey, your brother's here. We had to put him on a ventilator. We need you to make decisions. You're his next of kin.

Do we just go ahead and do the same thing we just went through again and try to make the very best decisions we can? Do we refer him back to the state? We don't know what to do. I think that, go ahead, Rob. Yeah, part of that, Dr. Gunn, is he has nothing in place. He doesn't have what we call a living will. He doesn't have a will.

He doesn't have – nobody knows how to assist him in paying his bills, anything. None of that stuff. He doesn't have anything in place. And that tells me either he's just choosing to be the way he is, then you have to hear his behavior as a language. And he is telling you, I don't want anything to do with you. I never have, and I never will. And you and Trudy have to make your choices now, set up your boundaries now.

And if you get a call in the middle of the night and you say, no, regardless, he's my brother, come what may, I'm going to be there for him. Then y'all make that choice. And when the call comes at 3 a.m., then you help make the decisions that you got to make at 3 a.m. Or you say, I'm drawing a line, and I'm going to tell him, either you get a living will, or when I get a call at 3 a.m., I'm going to tell them that we are estranged and I refuse to make decisions for him. I refer him back to the state. Yeah, that's kind of where we were. I can't tell you which one of those to do. But that's what we were thinking too.

I can't tell you which one of those to do. But that's what we're thinking too. I can't tell you what to do. What I can tell you is you need to have that conversation and you and Trudy shake on it and you make it ironclad before you get that call. Because when you get that call, you're going to be really emotional. It's going to be whatever the temperature happens to be outside. And suddenly you're going to find yourself two weeks and $10 thousand dollars down a road that you don't want to be down yeah yeah right and so uh i i would not be able to sleep at night this is just me if i didn't come up with really firm boundaries and i go make a direct, have a direct conversation with my brother. I do not care one second what quote unquote other people are saying about me or what he's telling other people about me.

Could care less. I could care less what other people like just saying he's a liar. They have no bearing on my life. Zero. None. I want to be able to look my brother in the eye and say, if you will have a will, I will help make decisions. Not if, but when the next call comes. If you won't make a will and designate me as X, Y, and Z, you will be a ward of the state.

You get to choose. And I would want to have, look him in, I don't need none of that. I'm just telling you. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah.

And then when the call comes, you'll be able to weep and be sad that your brother's passing away or your brother's very, very sick or whatever. But you'll also be able to know, I looked my brother in the eye and said, I will help if you will help. And he said, no, either forcefully or through his behavior. He answered my question. He said, no, I don't want your help. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. The problem with having that conversation is

I've been through so many times. I'm so mad. I don't even know if I can have a five-minute conversation. It's a civil conversation. That's up to you. I think you can. I think you can decide to or decide not to. But I'm simply telling you What I would do I can't put myself in your shoes right now You've been dealing with this your whole life

Yeah It's been an adventure And as it refers to his new niece Any conversations Like it would be inappropriate To just bombard a 16 year old With hey we're your family that's

that's what we've been discussing it's got to go through her whoever her parent or guardian is right now yeah that's what I told Trudy is I do not want to turn this girl's world upside down

it sounds like it already is upside down. Well, I don't even know if she has contact with him. We still haven't reached that discussion. I would communicate directly with – if you choose good on that road, I would identify her parent or guardian and communicate with them and let them know, hey, we are so-and-so's sane brother and sister-in-law. And we found out we had a niece. We understand that my brother-in-law is not a person of character, has a whole bunch of challenges going on. We have our stuff together and we now have identified her, your daughter, as a new family

member. If and when you are ready or she is ready and wants to reach out, fantastic. If not, we fully understand right now. And that parent or guardian may say, we don't want nothing to do with y'all. Get out of our lives. We've had enough of your family through your brother. And she's a minor, so great. And when she turns 18 or she turns 21 and you want to reach back out, great. Now she's an adult and she can make adult decisions. But right now, don't bombard a child with, you know, contact saying, oh, by the way, that's, that's a child can't carry that weight. That's why they got adults in their lives. So they got parents. So work through the parent or guardian on that one. And so, like I said earlier, Rob and Trudy, this is, it's heavy and it's got a lot of weight to it, but the solution is very, very simple.

For a long, long time, your brother has said, I don't want you in my life. And yet you've said, nope, you're my brother. I'm going to be here. And then when the call came in the middle of the night, you showed up. You're a family of outstanding character and you go above and beyond and then you go above and beyond that. And Trudy, you can't be held liable for the dying wish of a dad who never established boundaries, never established accountability, never established character or discipline in his son. You take care of him for me. Do you do the job? I never did He doesn't get to lob that grenade on you as he passes away. It's not for you to carry

It's just not You can love him. You can love him and that might look like um Power of attorney that might look like you become his legal guardian because he has lost his mind. That might be that you say, we will support you. We'll make those calls in the middle of the night,

but only after you do your part, which is get a will, get a medical power of attorney, get a fill in the blank, all the paperwork done. The path is pretty simple. Rob, Trudy, y'all go have a date together, cry together, be frustrated and angry together, and then walk away with a plan on here's how we're going to

handle what comes next and stick to the plan that y'all make together. I'm so sorry y'all are in this moment, but I'm glad y'all have each other to lean on as you decide what to do next. Let me know what y'all decide and I'll pass it along to our listeners. We'll be right back. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving and life change and job change, and you've got a tornado of anxiety fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make. This is not a good idea. So if you're a new home buyer right now,

my advice to you is to focus on what you can control, like the people you choose to help you in the home buying process. You need folks like my friends at Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is a Ramsey trusted provider that's been helping people with their home mortgages for decades. And their Home Buyer Edge program will help you skip a bunch of the stress.

Here's how it works. Apply to become a Churchill-certified home buyer and cap your interest rate for 90 days. Then you'll get a $5,000 seller guarantee to help your offer stand out. So go ahead, take a deep breath because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillemortgage.com slash Deloney and get the home buyer edge today. All right, we're back. Let's go to Jennifer in. Welcome to Miami. What's up, Jennifer? Hey, what's up? Partying. What are you up Jennifer? Hey, what's up? Partying.

What are you up to? Oh, you know, still in this chilly weather. Just a little bit. Just a little bit. Is it chilly in Miami? I mean, it's like 75. The salt trucks are out driving around. No!

Don't touch me. That's like a balmy August day in the North. All right. So what's going on? Okay. So I have the most wonderful question for you. I've been really dealing with this the past few years. How do I discuss past marital abuse with my children without putting something on them, without being disrespectful to their father, but also being authentic. I mean, they were there. They know to an extent that things were different than maybe some of their friends' home life, but I'm just, I've really been at a loss lately. How old are your kids? Uh, they range in age from 10 to 25.

Okay. Um, they self contact with their dad? Yes. Um, they do. Yes. Now they do. Okay. Mm hmm.

Um, what kind of abuse was it? I was married for over two decades and I ended up working for three years it started off as kind of like an emergency safety plan kind of thing when I was still terrified to try to leave again and then it ended up being more of an escape plan with the local police department and two different therapists. Obviously my children didn't know that, but it was pretty much everything. And then add a little evil on top of that. I was thinking the other day, if there was an ACEs score for being married, mine would be like a 13, if that was the problem. So, you know, not to be dramatic or

anything. No, no, no. But, um, so you got beat up a lot? Um, not initially. Um, but as the years progressed, yes, it started. Um, the physical actually really started when I was pregnant with my youngest. And I have truly been crying out to God in the middle of being told I was going to be murdered. Okay. So there was psychological abuse on top of the physical abuse? Yes. And it has made it very challenging, especially with my older children, because my character assassination started when they were very, very small. You know, things like, who do you love more, mom or dad? Or if mom and dad ever got a divorce, you're going to go with daddy, right? And this has been a time when I didn't know at the time that he was being unfaithful to me again, but, and I had never ever, divorce had never even been

uttered, where anything to do with my side of the family was always very, very bashed and obviously isolated. It got to a point, not got to a point, it started, but I had no frame of reference for healthy relationship, you know, which is very, very, very isolating, but he's such a beautiful, charming, successful, intelligent, giving man. And so when he started even realizing towards the end, like she's, I was starting, you know, I was learning some boundaries and how to distance in a way. He had started really going out of his way to say things about me in our very small local community that would make anything that I said maybe not believed or distrusted. And with our children, he would always say, you're such a liar, You're such a liar just for everything. And, um, it was very interesting to, you know, I was told at the end, a lot of gaslighting, you know, um, that my unforgiveness of the past was what was holding back our relationship that I really was. He thought I had mental issues. And if I ever left

him that he would insist on a psychological evaluation, that maybe I needed to be on medication. It was a lot of not just severe physical, but all of the things that have made it very confusing, especially my older children, where they looked at me and said, I just don't know what to believe. And I had never tried to defend myself because I didn't want to bring them in the middle, but I realized that he was saying things. And it really put a strain on our relationship. Sure. Because I wasn't saying anything, and the other side was saying a lot, and 99% of it was a lie. So at 25, you're a 25 year old, either is showing the same psychopathology as their dad,

or is beginning to put two and two together. She actually has, um, she's my only daughter. She has quite severe, uh, intellectual disabilities. And she read through it all from the beginning. And it has taken a lot for her to now even have relationship in a way.

He's been sober for a little over a year. And that's the longest that I have seen, which I know sounds awful, but in a lot of ways, it's so much scarier because he can be more conniving. And I know this sounds bitter, and I don't mean it that way. No, no, no. Hold on. Let me stop for a second. How long have y'all been divorced? It has been over three years. I can feel the terror that still pulses through your veins. Yeah.

Listen, you're unable, literally unable to answer a yes or no question. Because your brain starts churning so fast for the 40 different ways I can use what you just said against you. And you've got to come up with another reason, another solution, and a way to diffuse it, and a way to move it, and let's push it left. Whoa, whoa, whoa, it's okay, but we're going to do this. You have to move like that because your body recognizes one alarm system and it's terror. Right? Oh, correct. 100%.

Okay. I've become a politician. How do I answer this without getting into trouble? And listen, that is the part that, like, so to answer your question like very very directly with adult children i will answer questions honestly when they ask or if they are about to do something that i think is going to get them hurt okay um i will not go throwing grenades. And I will also preface it with this one important thing. Kids know they are equal part mom and dad.

And so when they find out something evil about one of the parents, then they cannot help it but internalize that so for – therefore, so am I. Right? And so all of those conversations have to be prefaced with, I will tell you about what happened when, or dad says you whatever, or even if you circle back to your 21-year-old and said, hey, a year ago you said that dad told you that I was crazy and I had mental health issues and all this. There's way more to this story. And one day when, if you ever know I will be I promise to be honest with you Even when it's hard Okay, and leave it there Your 25 year old who struggles with intellectual disabilities sometimes not always folks who struggle with intellectual disabilities

become savants at reading social cues Oh my gosh. You, yes. You nailed it. And so she may struggle with reading. She may struggle with arithmetic, but God knows she knows relationships because that's the way her brain has had to evolve to survive. Yeah.

And she might not be able to put her finger on it, but she knows that guy's not like I'm, his body energy is telling me something different than the words coming out of his mouth and it's disorienting. Right? Yes. And he does a great job telling her that she's dumb or that she's stupid or creating some world where she can only exist with him. Fair?

Or doesn't exist at all. Correct. He won't even acknowledge that he has a daughter. There you go. Because she doesn't play into... That's right. Doesn't play his rules. Doesn't play his game.

Yes. You still do. Yes. You're still participating. Yes. And the greatest gift you can give your children at this point is not a story or a narrative. That will come down the road. The greatest gift you

can give your kids is to begin healing. Yes. And you haven't done that yet. I feel like I've come a really, really long way. Um, my, and I'm thankful. I know I'm, I'm not, I'm not, you know, even close to being there, but I'm so grateful. I've done a lot of hard work. I think what this has come up is my oldest son has expressed some hurt and frustration with me because I was dad's biggest cheerleader. And because he has experienced the mask flip when there wasn't sobriety all the time. And so for a very short time, just the way you said that's so great when there wasn't sobriety all the time, when my husband was an abusive, violent drunk. Well, even after I divorced him, I know, I know. So here's what will happen in this.

Please, please, please, please, please, please hear the loving spirit with which I'm about to say this. Okay. Okay. Please, please, please. Because I'm walking a dangerously thin razor and I probably wouldn't bring this up if you and I were in counseling and therapy together for a couple of sessions because this is too soon. But I've only got you for a few minutes. Okay. Oh, no, go ahead.

I love it. Your child is right to ask you, why didn't you protect us? Yes. They are right to ask that question. And as a terrified, frightened, powerless person in a highly abusive relationship, there's not an answer for that question. Right? Yes. Yes. That's what I have grieved. That is the conversation that I have had at times, or whether it was writing a letter a couple of times in person, specifically with my older children. Possibly both.

Possibly writing the letter, but reading it to them. No, I have done both. Okay, okay. I have apologized to them for not protecting them. And I think, hold on, hold on, hold on. They need to hear you apologize to you. Yeah. Because the way you are communicating now, you still don't believe that you have needs

or value. I can hear it in you. Even this call is how can I fix their life? Not recognizing that the greatest gift you can give them is you anchoring into something firm, anchoring into something, into bedrock. Can you explain? When you are in a committed, highly abusive relationship, you're a kite in the wind. Yes. That is occasionally pulled down to be set on fire or stomped on and then sent back up into the air. And when you sever that relationship, the reason that relationship is so hard to sever is you know that that's going to cut that kite string and then you are tossed to the wind. And if you look at the data, women who leave abusive men, they fall into poverty with higher rates. Everything in

their life goes down. And weirdly, not weirdly, frustratingly, it often works inversely for men. The abusive guy ends up better off financially, ends up with a better fill in the blank, right? And so you hang on because I don't know where I end up if I cut this line. And you summoned the bravery and the courage and the strength. That millions of abused women before you have summoned and you cut that line. And all of a sudden you realized you were on the ground the whole time. And I agree. And I also think that one of the biggest things that I didn't know that I had to learn was, I mean, I knew it inside of me instinctively.

Leaving, you know, people would be like, if someone got a win, why don't you leave? I mean, he cheats, he does it, all the things. And, and it's because when you make that decision or you even start to pull away, it's actually more dangerous for you for such a time. You know, it's appeasing seems like a safer place for such a long time until it isn't anymore. Cause you can't appease. That's right. That's right. You know, so it's a really a big deal. And I recently lost one of my sons. He was killed just a few months ago.

And so I had a lot of this resurface, a lot that I really thought I had worked through because I've done a lot of hard work. Well, Jennifer, Jennifer, Jennifer, Jennifer, you lost a son? Yes. How old? He was almost 21. He was killed. He didn't pass right away, but he passed about a week and a half after. What happened?

There's a lot more to it than this, but essentially he was crossing the street after some other things had happened. His car was no longer functioning to drive and three or four men in a car hit him on the street and left him for dead. Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. Have you had to grieve this all by yourself? No, I've had a wonderful, wonderful, gracious support system of, um, some family and close friends that have really stepped up. It's been amazing. Humans are awesome. I've really been grateful, but, um, I think with that, all the things that I hadn't done in a really long time, like wake up in the middle of the night from bad dreams, um, about my ex-husband or even just feeling, I think that as the numbness is wearing

off, because like you have to be numb for so long to survive. That's right. And as you, you desaw, I'm realizing how angry I am. Yes. And you're, you're allowed to be angry and you've never been allowed to be angry before. Correct. But I don't want it to be put on my children if you don't let them know that you are angry they will feel it on you and they will blame themselves

or they will in a perverse sideways way try to do some reverse algorithm math and be like well maybe dad was right yeah you have to tell them how devastated you are yeah how just raged out angry you are you have to and you have to.

And you have to allow your body to experience this. This is grief. And you've had people walking alongside you and bringing you casseroles and showing up with you, taking care of your lawn and they've been really, really remarkable. Yeah. But you gotta be sad.

And my kids have commented that that hasn't happened for their father of course and I don't know how to answer that he has chosen not to surround himself with people who love him there we go that's his choice

I'm sad for him but that's the choice that he made yeah as often as you can make moving forward conversations about you. Okay. What you felt. I didn't feel safe. Why didn't you feel safe to your 15 year old? It's adult conversations. It was just a scary time. I was younger and I didn't fully understand my own strength and I didn't fully understand what being married was like. I'll talk to you more about when you're older. To your 25 year old, I was scared

because your dad told me he would murder me. Yeah. Right. You see the difference there? Yeah. And I'm going to say some hard things about your father, I need you to look at me and believe me when I say, I do not see any of this in you. Yeah. You're an amazing young son, young daughter, young whoever. Yeah, that's been the struggle. My oldest son was the one who chose to stay with dad full time. And, um, he would comment to me at times. Um, but mom, if I leave, he literally stepped into my shoes, the, you know, we're walking in and it, you know, dad's threatening to kill himself and all those things. Cause he realized as people were detaching after so much time, like, oh gosh, I need to reel him back in. Or that's what I'm assuming. And, um, you know, that's been such the struggle is that it's, I want to run in there and grab my child and say, you can't have him. Not because I don't want him to have relationship with his father, but because it's been so devastating to watch my child choose for or even be manipulated to choose to stay when it's hurting

him and he even has said to me at times mom i've i've wished at times that dad was dead not because i want him to die or hurt but then he would be at peace and we would be at peace and yet he still chooses his father in so many ways. I feel so hurt. Like, you know, he feels that he needs to be sized. How old is he? He's 22. Saying something like, your daddy's not well. Yeah.

Oh, for sure. And it's unbelievable to me, the young man you are, that you love hurting people so well. Absolutely. And anytime you want to come home, my door is always open for you. Who knows? But you could never do that. It wouldn't be safe. It's just saying it again and saying it again and saying it again.

Okay. And what I'll tell you is if something is not safe, you talked about it earlier. You start making plans and you start like, okay, it's not safe here. So we're going to have a strategy for calling the cops, for doing this, for doing this, for doing this. If something isn't safe, that's the bell. That is the alarm system. You got to get out of that situation. Your 22 year old son cannot be responsible for an adult father. He was threatening to kill himself.

He's not trained for that. He doesn't have the professional skills for that. He's too enmeshed in that relationship. He can't do it. And so I'm going to call 911 every single time. I'm going to tell my son, son, neither you or I are trained for this. So we're just going to start calling 911 every single time, every single time we're calling them because we can't handle it. And if dad says, if you call 911 again, I'm going to, well, dad, now I'm really going to call him because I don't, I don't have any other play. I don't know. I don't know how I can help you. There's so, oh man, there's so much here, Jennifer. There's so much here. I think the safest, not safest, the smartest play right now for you is to spend some time grieving your son.

I want you to write your son a letter and tell him how much you miss him. And actually, I want you to call an evening together with all your kids here as the holidays are approaching. And I know this call is going to be aired after New Year's, but it's right before Christmas when we're on this call. I want you to invite your kids over for an evening, and I want you all to write your son, their brother who passed away, a letter. Let them know how much they miss him. Let them know how heartbroken they are. And I want you all to share that grief together as a family. And if you need to have one or two friends over because your family doesn't have the practice of shared grief, that's great. If you have a counselor you want to bring over, great.

But I think you all should all write a letter and read them together. And just notice that empty seat there at the table. We miss brother. And then as questions come up with your adult kids, again, let them know, I don't see this in you, but I was young and I was scared and I didn't know where to turn next. And I'm sorry that you went through that. And I'm also sorry that I experienced that.

And here we are. What we can control is what comes next. And what nobody can ever take away is how much I love you to the moon and back and the moon and back and the moon and back and the moon and back. It's a mess. It's a mess. It's a mess.

And your kids are lucky to have you, Jennifer. Call anytime, anytime. And I'll walk alongside you. Thank you for being brave. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper

body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties,

not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist Thank you. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, we are back. Hey, before we take this next call, I just want to take a moment to shout out. Just got word this morning that the great Mike Leach passed away. And the football coach, when I was at Texas Tech, he was the football coach that reimagined football. And was a character, was always saying things that were just wild.

And he was super fun in interviews and was just a just a character brought joy um to to lots and lots of folks and so just shout out to his family and to his wife and his kids and that community as they mourn the passing of a legend and here's here's the thing i always remember about Coach Leach. He went to law school out there at Pepperdine. And I don't know how much of this is folklore at this point, but he never played a down of football in his life, but he loved it.

He was obsessed with it. And he used to draw plays while he was in law school and wonder why don't people just run it like this? Like if they just did it like this, then they could get around this and this and this and this. And so he, on the margins of his law school notebooks, reimagined football. And the air raid offense that we see all over the NFL now and college football was largely out of that guy's head. And just a pretty amazing, amazing, fun guy. It's so interesting so he did this thing where at the end of every football season to kind of reset his mind he would find a thing that he

would go down a rabbit hole on just learn everything about it and one year he picked pirates and he got real obsessed with pirates and if you know anything about mike leach he he has followed this pirate legacy and it's just become part of his thing now. But just a few weeks ago, I told my wife what I wanted for Christmas was some books, some ancient books on dragons. I decided I want to be like Coach Leach. And at the end of every year, I just want to learn a whole bunch about a thing. And this year I want to learn about dragons. I want to learn about Eastern dragons and Western dragons and the mythology of dragons and where they come from. And my wife's like, that's fantastic.

And so I'm hoping to unwrap, because Christmas is in a couple of days, to some books on dragons. But I got the idea from Coach. And so, Coach, we're going to miss you. And to his family, we are grateful that I know the family of a coach is a family that sees their dad or husband only in passing. And thank you for sharing them with us for all these years. All right, let's go out to Sam in Orlando, Florida.

What's up, Sam? How you doing, doctor? I'm good, my brother. What's up? I need some help figuring out how to tell my mom and brother that I want to move out of my mom's house. Okay. Uh, I'm 33 years old. Um, actually kind of, I'm embarrassed that, you know, I live with her.

Okay. Um, and I've just really been, I'm thinking I'm ready. I feel like I need to take the plunge. Okay. How long have you lived with her straight through, all the way since you were a kid? I've lived with her since I graduated from college. That was 2011.

Okay. How come you stayed? Well, I really didn't have a hard time finding work and I couldn't afford to live on my own. So I just kind of

did what I could to get by. Recently, I did a career change. I started working in the, uh, uh, it help desk, you know, then went into it. So hopefully to make a little bit more money. Cool.

Um, and so can I ask you, let me ask you this brother. Um, and by the way, I hope you hear it in my voice. I got no shame on this. Okay. I'm proud of you for being 33 and saying now's the time. Okay? And we could go replay like, what are you doing? And where are you?

I'm not going to do that, man. I think the best use of our energy right now is what comes next, right? Moving forward. Just listen into your voice for a few seconds and just listen to you tell your story about yourself. You don't think very highly of my new friend, Sam. Why not? Why do you think Sam is kind of a loser? You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Where does that come from? Did your mom talk to you like that? No, absolutely not. Did your brother? No, neither one of them. Where does that come from? Did your mom talk to you like that? No, absolutely not. Did your brother? No, neither one of them. Where does it come from, man? I guess it comes, you know, from myself. Uh, I guess I, maybe I put pressure on myself. Um, I've watched the Dave Ramsey shows here and there. It helped me get out of debt. It helped me with my career change but like from what i understand it just seems like like if you're at my age and you live with your parents regardless of the reason like you're a loser nope that's nonsense

that's not true that is a part of that story that you've you've kind of morphed and taken on a really dark route to tell yourself. Okay. I do think, there's plenty of people who live with their parents who are helping out because their parents are old age. They've got health issues that move home for a season

to like pay their house off or to get out of debt and then figure out what comes next or they lose their job. Life happens. Life happens. I would ask you as just your buddy, dude, if you and I were just hanging out at a bar having a beer, I would ask you,

hey, it was hard to find work in 2011. And fast forward, it's 12 years later and you're still telling yourself those same stories. I can't find a job. I'm not worth finding a job. I can't afford to live. I just kind of am. And over the last 12 years, you have naturally taken the easy path. The hard path is, dude, in six months, I am moving out of this apartment, this house. I'm getting my own apartment. And so I have to have this much dollars, which means I have to take a second and third job, or I got to throw my shoulders back a little bit and commit to doing a bang up job at work. And they're going to recognize me. And then in nine months, they're going to move me to this position. I'm going to move to that position. See what I'm saying? So something has held you back there. And, um, I'm glad to hear it's not your, your mom wouldn't tell him calling you her loser son. And it wasn't your brother being like, oh, loser still.

Like, no, man, if you've been helping out and taking care of somebody who wasn't well or whatever, good for you. Good for you. What has brought you to this moment that like it's time? I'm 33. It's time. Well, I wrote down some reasons to leave and concerns that I have, if that helps. Yeah. So the reasons I want to leave, I guess as Dave Ramsey put it, you never learn how to fly unless you leave the nest.

That's very, very true. There is a maturity, there is a growth and development in maturity that you have not undergone because you haven't had to. There's something about saying, if I don't earn this money, I don't have a place to live. Like there's something that builds strength, right? If I don't push this bar off my chest, it will collapse my ribs, right? That's how you grow strength, right? Is adding weight on the bar. And he is exactly

1,000% right. Yes, sir. I'm the only one in my social circle that I know of who lives with, who lives with my mom. Correct.

And, you know, it's like, my mom won't be around forever. I need to figure out, like, how I'm going to sustain myself when she leaves this world. And also like, I feel guilty, but it's like every other weekend,

uh, more or less, like she goes over to my brothers and hangs out with her grandkids. Um, I enjoy having a house, you know, to myself, you know, you you know she's like retired um you know she's a homebody and you know we're around each other a lot and sam get your own place brother get your own place okay get your own place you should feel nervous you should feel angsty about it You should do it with um not uh Do get a place you can afford You're gonna feel a little bit lonely it's gonna feel weird And then have some of your buddies in your social circle over on a regular basis have monday night. Whatever is at your house

Poker nights video game nights dungeons. I don't know whatever nights, video game nights, dungeons. I don't know, whatever nerd things people – what you're into. I don't know. Like for me, it would be like come over and watch the fights or come over. I don't know what things you're into, but create a world where your place becomes a place where people hang out. And it will develop very, very quickly. But it is time. But I don't want you to go because you're a loser now Like I'm the only guy

I don't want that to be the reason you go Because Dave Ramsey said I'm a loser I don't want that to be the reason you go Even if they're right I want you to go because it's time for the next chapter of your life It's time for you to build The next To Not build I want you to plant the roots that will become the next branch of your family tree.

Mm-hmm. Do you ever want to get married, have kids, do that whole thing? I'm not going to lie, man. I don't see myself having a wife and kids. I mean, not because of my current situation. I mean, I see people with a wife and kids, and maybe it's my loner state of mind, but I don't see myself being a husband and a dad.

I won't take that from you. What I will tell you is not giving romantic relationships a shot is robbing yourself of the deepest and greatest joys life has to offer. Understood.

I can't put that on you, man. If you want to not get married and you want to live a bachelor life your whole life and not have kids, cool. In the same way, you won't fully understand the weight of maturity, the weight of growing up, the weight of being adult until you got your own place. There's a deeper layer. You won't truly understand what love is, what life is about. You won't truly understand what you are capable of until you hold your first kid. And you won't fully understand just how terrifying and scary this place is.

All of it, right? And by the way, if you're around a bunch of people that are negative about their wife and kids, those people suck. Get new friends, right? Get new people to hang out with. Yes, sir. Here's a funny story.

I think I've told it on this show before, but my friend John, we hung out every Monday night for years and years and years, me and him and Todd, and we hung out for years and years and years and years and years. And then he had a kid,

and his wife is awesome. Her name's Jen. I just absolutely adore her. she's one of my favorite people on planet but after like a year john wouldn't hang out with us after he had this new kid and i'm not gonna lie i was like man jennifer is the worst she is not who like man i thought she was super cool but he's got to stay home all the time. And it wasn't until I had my son that I realized I don't want to hang out with those idiots. I want to sit here on my couch and hold my child.

Or I want to lay down on the floor and just stare into his eyes. And he can't even focus on me yet. And I asked John about that, and he smiled. And he's like, yeah, no offense, but I, I would rather be with my wife and kids and come to find out Jennifer was like, dude, go be with your friends, get out of the house. And he was like, no, man, I want to be with you and the baby. And I asked him, why didn't you ever tell me? And he said, man, I couldn't have explained that. I couldn't have explained that kind of love. I felt it's just something you got to experience So I tell you that to tell you Um, there is an intellectual side to it

But also man, there is a part of your heart and soul that will open up that you will never understand but to answer your question, it's like your original original question, it sounds like You getting a friend that you trust maybe maybe your brother, maybe even your mom. And you say, it's time for me to move out. 33, I'm going to be 34. It's 2023 is right around the corner. It's time for me to move out. Here's my plan in three months, in five months, whatever.

I'm going to have my own place and I'm going to do Sunday lunches. I'd love for y'all to come over for Sunday lunch or whatever the thing is. Or once a month, I want two, whatever. Your mom may go, oh, thank God. Get out of my house. Or she might be devastated, right? Who knows? Yeah. That's one of my concerns.

Because I'm not one of those guys who just lives with her and doesn't contribute. I pay her rent. No, dude. I'm not thinking that at all. Yeah. And like the only thing she says that she does for me is put a roof over my head. I just got done asking her, um, hey, does the money that I pay you really help?

And she says, yes, you don't know how much. Yeah. So it's like, I mean, she, I mean, we should be able to get by without me. So here's one of the poisons of the way your mind works, okay, Sam, is you think about a thing and you do not seek out true data. You think about a thing and become paralyzed by the thoughts of that thing. And then you start trying to figure out, well, if I do this, then if I do that, then if I do that, but then if I do that, then that's going to happen and this is going to happen. And it's a deep, deep-seated pattern of rumination that leads to paralysis. Analysis paralysis.

But you have it times 10. So the way through this is sitting down with your mom saying, mom, it is time for me to move out. You mentioned the other day that the money that I pay for rent is really important to you. I don't want to leave you in a lurch because I've been here a decade now. And by the way, it's easy to be like, oh, dude, what a loser. Move out on your own. Get your own place. Well, now you've what a loser move out on your own get your own plate Well now you've established a life for your mom too, right?

So now you're you're into this thing. And so you have to leave gracefully um, and so Get firm data from your mom Mom, can you survive? If I move out and establish my own name, my own place, my own life, and maybe one day my own family. Be very specific about the finances, okay? Dollar amounts.

Not, yeah, I'll be fine. I want to see it. Where does your income come from? How would you pay these bills? How would you feel, right? See what I'm saying? And it may be that she moves in with you. She becomes a guest in your house Do what?

If that's the case Then why I mean I may as well stay with her Then you figure out a way to buy the house Because right now you're paying rent For somebody else's home That you're going to have to split With your brother someday

Then say cool I will purchase this home. And I will figure out my employment situation. I will save up. I will do this the right way. Not to further endanger myself financially, but I'm going to buy this house. And you will live in my home. And just flip it on its script. And that would be a conversation with your brother too.

Or your brother too. Right? Or your brother can help contribute as well. Say, brother, I've given up all of my 20s and now I'm into my 30s taking care of mom living here. And it has been a great advantage for me, but I'm also paying all of the expenses and I'm ready to move out, but mom can't afford to live by herself.

So either she's got to move in with one of us or we have to contribute to her staying in this house. What are you going to contribute? I hear you. Is that fair? Yes, sir. Are you going to do any of this stuff? As soon as I get off this call,

I'm going to have this conversation with her and ask her and just talk to, you know, talk to her. Okay. I would start that conversation by few sons are as blessed as I have been to have had a mom who let me stay this long. And this is conversation one of a couple of conversations, but I want you to know that it's time for me to find my own place. And I want to be very gracious in how I do that, but it's time.

And I would write down like on a note card or on a piece of notebook paper, very specific. We need to talk about finances. I won't leave you in a lurch. We need to figure out what comes next. Where do you get money? Is she on Social Security? Does she have a pension? Who knows where she's getting money, but be very specific about that stuff.

And then prepare for this to be either a, she cheers and goes, finally, Sam's growing up, get out. Or she's devastated, oh, my Sam, you can't leave, whatever. And then be prepared to say, okay, cool. We're going to, I want us to think on this and stew on this. I don't even know what the apartments cost around here. I don't know what homes cost. Let's circle back and Friday, we'll have second part of this conversation and I'll bring brother too, right? And we're just

going to do this systematically and the next three to six to nine months, whatever your financial situation is, let's plan to jump. Let's plan to jump. Unless it's going to leave mom destitute and then you and brother sit down and figure out together what your next steps are. Not going to beat you up, man. But your gut is right. Sounds like it's time. So let's make a good, solid plan.

Let's stop analyzing everything. Let's move to action. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point.

In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back.

Hey, I was wondering, okay, so you don't know this, but when Kelly's on the show, she's got her hair done, it's done all nice. But when she's just like editing things or working, she usually has it up in a ponytail and she has this big giant barcode tattoo on the back of her neck. I don't know where she got that.

But right underneath it, it says, I love Kelly Clarkson. And I never understood that. And now I forgot. Since I've been gone. You already said I have an Elvis tattoo on my neck. Where's all this going? That's, well, you make up over it so hard. I have an Elvis tattoo on my neck. Where's all this going?

Well, you make up over it so hard. That one's more like on your throat. You guys can't see it. She has so much powder and so much cover up on her neck right now. I'm surprised that your head doesn't lean over. But see, just like that, it just leaned over a bit. But right beneath the barcode,

huge Kelly Clarkson fan. It's incredible. And I guess this is, Is this your favorite song? Not necessarily I just thought it was a fitting song Given our second call What's your favorite Kelly Clarkson song? I don't know that I have one

Oh, you just love them all? I love them all equally I love them all the same I'm gonna be I'm gonna be singing that all day I don't have a favorite one. I love them all, John. All right. Song's called Because of You by Kelly Clarkson. Kelly Clarkson. What's that? Fantastic. Song's called Because of You and it goes like this. I will not make the same mistakes that you did. I will not let myself cause my heart so much misery.

I will not break the way you did. You fell so hard. I've learned the hard way to never let it get that far. Because of you, I never stray too far from the sidewalk. Because of you, I learn to play on the safe side so I don't get hurt. Because of you, I find it hard to trust not only me, but everyone around me. Because of you, find it hard to trust not only me but everyone around me Because of you I'm afraid I lose my way and it's not too long before you point out I cannot cry

Because I know that's weakness in your eyes I'm forced to fake a smile, a laugh every day of my life My heart can't possibly break when it wasn't even whole to start with Whew, that is a good song I like it, Well done, Kelly. I might get a Kelly Clarkson tattoo as well. America, go get Kelly Clarkson tattoos. We'll see you soon.