The Dr. John Delony Show - Singer-songwriter Andrew Osenga

Episode Date: May 10, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU!   Show Notes for this Episode   John interviews his friend, artist, musician, podcast creator, singer-songwriter Andrew Osenga The Pivot podcast Faithful Lyrics of the Day: "Outrageous" - Paul Simon   As heard on this episode: BetterHelp     tags: marriage, relationships, goals/life planning, boundaries, family, disagreement/conflict   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Hey, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Thanks for joining us. I'm so glad you're here. I hope you're doing well. And if you're not doing well, I hope you have a path towards being well. I hope you've got people in your life that are walking with you. We're here to walk with you as well. I'm so glad you're here. If you want to be on the show

you want to talk about what's going on in your life in your relationships, in your home in your kids schools, in your heart whatever's going on 1-844-693-3291 1-844-693-3291 1-844-693-3291. Or go to johndeloney.com slash show. Fill out the form and it will go to Kelly and she will give you a shout and we will have you on.

Listen, I'm super excited. Today is a special show. I think as a culture, and you're talking to a nerd with two PhDs, okay? I think we have gone insane when it comes to facts and figures and data and more information. We've become addicted to more data. That's the way we solve our anxiety issues and our depression issues and our systemic issues. We need more data, more data, more data. And sometimes data is really, really important. And sometimes it's the same nonsense over and over repackaged, more fear, more drama, more whatever repackaged. And we're looking for quick fixes.

And so one of the places I often go when I'm trying to dig into human problems, how do I look at marriage again in a new way? How do I look at breakups and heartbreak and tragedy and grief in new ways? You've heard me talk about this. I go to music. I go to songwriters. I go to poets. I go to fiction, right?

It allows me to inhabit other people and to experience things that I don't have the words for or that I can read a chart and a graph, but it doesn't impact my heart and my mind and my soul the way a good song does, the way a good piece of art does, the way a great performance poetry piece does, right? The way a good book does. So this is so awesome. So the cool thing about being here in Nashville is there are the most extraordinary songwriters on planet earth all live here. Some extraordinary poets, filmmakers, authors, they all live here and they just hang out in the coffee shops and you can walk to any coffee shop. And the cool thing about Nashville is there's no paparazzi. It's against the rules here. You walk in and everybody's a person just like you,

and they're just getting their coffee and their weird food or whatever it is they're doing, just like you. So it's awesome to run into people, to meet people, and suddenly you look up and these people are your friends. And I'm so excited to have one of Nashville's most respected songwriters and guitarists and musicians and writers, folks that work behind the scenes. You may have never heard his name, but man, you mention his name in this community and everyone's like, oh, that guy's the best. And he happens to also be a podcaster of one of my favorite podcasts. I don't talk about it very often. It's so personal to me, so I'm letting that cat out of the bag. I'm talking about Andrew Osenga. It goes by Andy O. Andy Osenga is my friend here in town. He's a singer-songwriter. He is a guitarist who has played Carnegie Hall.

He's traveled the world, the globe, literally, playing guitar for bands. And he also is the host of a podcast called The Pivot. It's one of the most important podcasts in the world to me. It talks about the opposite of what every other podcast talks about. Most podcasts talk about, here's how to crush it and go get your dreams and how to... His podcast talks about what happens when you went for it and you failed?

What happens when you woke up and you're 35 and you're a rock star and your leather pants don't fit anymore and you don't have any income? What do you do now? This idea of how do you change directions midstream? And he is wise and he's smart. And he spent many a night in tour buses, many a night with other songwriters, many a night on stage, many a night behind closed doors, listening to people's hearts and minds and their fears and their hopes. And he's an awesome dad, an awesome

husband, and he's vulnerable and open. And so on today's show, we talk about what's it like when you quote unquote make it, but your bank account doesn't reflect it. When you quote unquote make it, but you still got to deal with the fact that you stumbled through being a dad that day. You're kind of a crappy husband. And how do you pick yourself up? How do you change directions when life has different plans for you than you did, right? What if you do everything right and it

still all falls apart? Man, we talked to a wise, wise guy. Osango is a Christian guy. He works with a lot of Christian artists and he also sees the messiness that goes on behind the closed doors in church communities and faith communities. And he just puts it all out there for us in this awesome interview. So as always, we're just going to drop right into the middle of the interview. There's not going to be a good start and a good end to it. We're just going to drop right in the middle of it. So I'm so glad you joined us. Stay tuned for an awesome conversation with my good friend

and world-class guitarist and world-class songwriter, Andy Ocinga. Oh, man. Well, hey, Andy, i'm so glad you're here and we have a lot of talk about two big things first number one so before i took this job i was working at a university and as a part of my the way i lived my life it was a goal of mine to not exist on the internet to never be there and i did one podcast for a friend back in texas awesome guy and then i swore it off i'm never gonna do that again and then i had like a talk with my soul about dude you gotta be on the internets like the world is just that way and then i had one podcast that i listened to religiously and it was

your show the pivot and it was a it was something so new i think i ran into you and i was like oh hey i'm john by the way i've got an idea for a tv show and it was the concept of your show was so brilliant and it's really what got my mind thinking bigger about, man, if you're going to exist in this universe in this day and age, and you want to be serious about helping other people live a little bit differently, or you want to give people hope in whether mowing the yard or in these areas, we've never been able to do it. You're going to have to be on the internet. And your show gave me an avenue. And tell folks about this show, genesis of it it's so good it's so i love every second of it tell me about it oh man you're so kind well um yeah first of all i remember meeting you we were at a fireworks show and you had just moved to town

and we had never met dude i'm so too much too no know that Because you were like, hey, I know you And here's an idea for a TV show for you By the way, my name's John Which was a great way to meet you Listen, I beat people up so much I'm too much For those of you who don't, listen I'm a lot It's why I live in the woods

Because I meet somebody and I'm like, listen I've heard some records you were on And so we're going to be best friends. I love it. Let's start today. I love it. I'm glad we are friends. Oh, man. Yes, you're so glad the show is called The Pivot.

And I had been a guitar player for a long time, musician for a long time. And then I took my first job job at 35 years old working in a record company. I did that for two years. And I thought, this is where I'm going to retire. This is it. This is my thing. And one day they were like, hey, this is not your thing. You don't work here anymore.

And I did not have a plan B. And we had just gotten out of debt. I was 37. I had three kids and a mortgage. We actually hadn't gotten all the debt. We paid off all out of debt. I was 37. I had three kids and a mortgage. We got all the debt. We paid off all the little things. All of a sudden, I was in free fall. Let's back up before that.

When you're a guitarist and you land this stage or you finally get to play with this band or this one guy asks you to tour with him, that is the plan forever, right? Oh, yeah. Because you're going to be millionaires. You're going to wake up in leather pants. It's just going just gonna be okay no one plays guitar for a living like dreams of that and thinks about when you're 34 or when you have your third daughter on the way yeah yeah no it's

just you're gonna be 26 forever for eternity leather pants will always be the right choice right always the most challenging concern of the day is which pedals to have in the pedal board right that's always gonna be a thing it's still is concerned it is it's big you're the best pedal guy i know so then you go to job yeah which is then it which is there's a whole thing about that of like leaving the thing that i had been my dream and taking a job felt like failure which we that's a whole nother conversation. So right about the time I started to feel comfortable as in this new world and with who I was, it was pulled out from under me, which just whatever, they just had to let

people go and it's fine. But not knowing what to do, what I found was the next day, or the next couple days, the next couple weeks, all of a sudden the conversations I had with my friends were different. Because everybody, all of a sudden I was a safe person

and everybody was like- Because you were a failure? Yeah. And they were like, dude, that happened to me too. Or I feel like that's about to happen to me. Or I hate my job. Or I don't know what I'm doing.

Whereas a couple weeks ago when I had the cool job and the office and the top floor and everything, you know, like nobody was willing to talk. Nobody wanted to. I was not the guy you went to, to talk about that stuff. Okay. So all of a sudden I was a safe place. And meanwhile, I've been listening to all these podcasts that I love about people who've, you know, I started Southwest Airlines.

I did this amazing thing. I was listening to all these people's successes, but I was like deep in my own failure. And I felt like I need to know that other people have been here and that it's okay. And these people were, all my friends were telling me these stories that were so helpful and I had free time and some microphones in the basement. So I started, and I started a podcast and this was kind of you know it was before everybody started a podcast it was one of the OG podcasts it kind of was which who knew

I just loved podcasts and had free time so I started interviewing my friends just hey can we have a conversation about not how you made it but what happened when

the question is what did you do when life stopped working the way it used to and I started it started being about career, but eventually you sort of pulled the camera back because career is typically a symptom

of the rest of your life. You know, how is your family? You know, what happens when your health fails? What happens when your family falls apart? What happens when you lose your faith? What happens when you get a faith? You know, when something major changes, life doesn't work the way it used to.

You walk in the room, you flip on the light switch, and it doesn't turn on. What do you do? And that is fascinating to me. Why do we not have – it happens to everyone. It happens to everyone over time. Why do we not talk about this? Because it's embarrassing. Why though?

Because we're ashamed. Huh. Why does – talk about this because it's embarrassing why because we're ashamed huh and why why it is it's it's it's like um the dinner right like we're not ashamed we all eat right we do it every day why i you've you've just sat down with so many people. I love, love, love the idea of what happens when the thing you thought was going to happen didn't. And my work with crisis has always been, you show up at a situation, nobody thought their day was going to end like this.

Yeah. Or they thought they were going to be married to that person forever, and that person's not there anymore. Or I thought I was going to go to my kid's graduation, and that kid's not there anymore. I thought this job was the next thing. I thought I was going to be 20. I love that line. I thought I was going to be 26 forever.

And I just didn't have a plan after that. Why can we not talk about this? And that's what has been so fun and so freeing is being able to have those conversations with people, realizing that everybody has that story. Whether they're, you know, some people, that failure led to the next success. Some people, that failure led to a bunch more failures. To a hole in the ground. Or, but if you're still living and breathing, life goes on. So, what do you do?

And how do we pursue health? How do we pursue community? How do we pursue God in that? Because that's where we find those things. That's where, when we lose those, when we lose our identity, when we lose the things that we often have idolized, that's when we have a chance

to rebuild on a better foundation. If you were to step back from, I mean, you've done multiple seasons now of the show, and it's just it's i can't recommend it enough i know it feels weird to go to this show so i'm telling you to go someone else's it's so good go to that um the pivot with andy singa if you were to step back and say what are a couple of commonalities that you've experienced with folks when things fall apart when that record deal like you're gonna be the guy and then it doesn't happen yeah yeah

or that show doesn't happen or that job you got laid off or he got cancer and passed away what's some commonalities here the people that handle that stuff well are the people who have already done the work that's and what i mean the work like you can know instantly when somebody has done the work and i mean like the work of knowing their own story, knowing when you've already got the sense of, my job does not define me. My status does not define me. I'm defined by how God created me and how he views me. When you can operate out of that space, you're okay.

And when you can't, you fall apart. And that's the biggest thing that I've taken away from it is you can tell immediately who had done that work. Who knew who they were outside of whatever it is they were chasing. Who was prepared for it. Not that you're prepared for what happens. You're prepared for anything. For life.

Right? Yeah. And it's made me want to be that person. It's identified for me places where i have not done that work okay and that's been really helpful and really not fun sometimes yes okay so um one of the most common conversations we have on this show is talking about you gotta let you gotta let whatever fantasy and it's it's kind kind of like a thumb in your eye way to phrase it, but I thought my marriage was going to look like this.

I thought my in-laws were going to treat my grandkids like this. I thought my health was going to always be, I thought we were always going to be 26, whatever that looks like. There's this so hard to make that turn. Yeah. Right? So the illusion is if I can just get here, everything's going to be okay. Right.

If I can just get my husband to fill in the blank, if I can just get my kids to get these grades or get into this school, things are going to be fine. If I can just get this debt paid off, then if I could finally get into those pair of pants again, it's just going to whoom. Yeah. And you've gotten to experience this in a way that is a true fantasy for folks. Because you've traveled the globe with multi-platinum artists.

You've played guitar. You're a national treasure here, right? And he rolls his eyes. He is. If you ask, like, hey, who's the best sonic texture guitarist to a hundred people, a hundred of them would say, I was saying,

of course, call Andy. Call Andy. Have you seen his pedal board? All of it. And by the way, he's the only guy in Nashville, Tennessee that's permitted

to have these stable offenders that he has. James. James is a fender guy. And I'm a Gibson guy to the end. I know you are. You can have both. Listen, he knows what's up. He's a Fender guy. And I'm a Gibson guy to the end. I know you are. You can have both. Listen, he knows what's up. He's a professional.

He said it. He's got both. He's Switzerland, but whatever. That's like you can only have Phillips head screwdrivers. Yes, they're helpful. But you're going to need some flat heads. That hurts. That hurts. Alright, fair enough. The wise one.

So, oh, Oracle. that's a great analogy with the screwdrivers and i don't have any comebacks to that so you've been on these stages you've been when the rhyman auditorium is sold out you've been in front of massive festival crowds tell everybody what it looks like when you quote unquote make it right your bank account suddenly fill up you suddenly are able to see yourself in a new light your marriage is great you're a super parent like help people deconstruct that fantasy yes i i made the mistake uh when i got to play carnegie hall with stephen curtis chapman who had when i was a kid was like my idol right i had a poster of him on my wall when I was 12. So I got to play.

I was in his band. We played Carnegie Hall the first time for him. And I made the mistake of checking my bank account right before I walked on stage because I was holding my phone just like, oh, oh, that's not the right color. It didn't magically just deposit in when you... No, no. And yes, yes you know the thing is is that

when i finally stepped away from my career in music i was able to look at it i mean i still do it but when i when i stepped away for the first time thinking i was done when i was 35 i could and i you know could write it out on paper oh that looks like a guy who's done some stuff. But every day of that 16 years that I was full-time doing that just felt like a failure. Every day felt like, yeah, I'm pretty good, but there's that guy. But I didn't get that gig, but that guy got that gig. Would there ever be a place, is there any musicians, any artists that are like, nah, I'm here?

Does that person exist? There's one of the phrases that goes around guitar players is, John Mayer wants to be Eric Clapton. Eric Clapton wants to be George Harrison. George Harrison wants to be Paul McCartney. And Paul McCartney wants to be Paul McCartney in 1964. Right, which is basically John Mayer. Meaning that it doesn't matter. There's always somebody better. There's always somebody better.

There's always somebody that you wish you were. When that's what you operate out of, you will never crest the wave. And so walk somebody through walking off that stage. Because most of us will never walk on stage at Carnegie Hall, right? You play a show with your idol on a stage that is magical. You step off, you take off your leather pants, because clearly, let's be honest. And then you go backstage, you shower, you go home, and you're in a hotel room by yourself.

Yeah. That bank account's the same. Yeah, yeah. Your marriage is the same. Yeah. Your kids are the same. Except they missed dad tonight because they just had their routine, right? Exactly, right? They just went to bed. I just paid a babysitter. Yeah. Your kids are the same. Except they missed dad tonight because they just had their routine, right? Exactly, right.

They just went to bed. I just paid a babysitter. Yeah. Yeah. So walk people through what that gap in your soul feels like. Yeah, the first few times, it's pretty crazy. You feel like you're supposed to feel fulfilled. And not like it's not a great experience.

It was. It was amazing. It was awesome. But yeah, it ends, right? It's 23 hours of your day left, right? Yeah. And I've now come to recognize that that's the cycle, that you get the high. It's a camp high.

That's what it is. It's a camp high. Okay. And it's fleeting. And I've had number one songs on the radio, and next week somebody else has a number one song on the radio. Like, it doesn't last. And, yeah, the first few times of that are devastating. Is it because of the expectation?

You're caught off guard by it? Well, it's because you spend your whole, like when you're a kid, I'm nine years old, drawing stages on my notebooks. And that's all I think about. And so when you do it and you realize that's it oh that's it that's it that's it you know i've heard you know one of uh somebody says someone must say of shakespeare even of beethoven is this all yeah you know

if that's if that's the end goal your accomplishment like it's you're never gonna you're never gonna to get it. Jeff Bezos cannot get enough money. He has more money than anyone in the history of the world. Of Earth. Of entire history. And it's still not enough. And he's got a new plan for the next thing.

Right? Yeah. Because if that's what defines you, you're out. You're out of luck. So when you are sitting at home listening to this or you're driving down the road and you think, whoa, okay, so this guy played Carnegie Hall, planned his whole life to get here, got there.

It's awesome. Paid his debts off. By all metrics, because your daughters are incredible. He's a good dad. Good husband. Well-res respected in the industry that didn't put a period at the end of the sentence for andy right then i'm backing out thinking i'm a soccer mom i'm shuttling kids around town if i could just fill in the blank

if i could just do this what do you tell folks as an artist because i i mental health folks do their thing and they use science and these i think the beauty of art is it gets in the soul through the back door and it unwinds people in a way that you feel it here and i think that's the one of the great tragedies of our times we've just sucked the artistry out of so much stuff right um it's content as it i mean it's it's the marrow of these bones right so what would you tell somebody is more important than getting on that stage? Oh, man. I love that you asked that.

So now my primary vocation is I work at a record company in worship music. Okay. And I oversee a large group of artists and songwriters. Who are 26 thinking this is going to be 26 forever, right? Some of them, yeah. Okay. And my role is to help them find the best songs and create the best versions of those songs

to share to people. And I love it. And I talk often. Often I will say, when people are stressed or frustrated or this didn't work or they're angry about this or, you know, legitimate or not, there are a lot more janitors in the world than there are full-time musicians or part-time musicians. You know, most people that I'm ever going to run across in my life are the lucky few.

Just because they live in America, because they live in this time of this, you know, 2021. It's a weird little snapshot of history. You know, like the biggest way to fight cynicism or bitterness, which is what happens after that hollowness, right? After that night where you get the high and then you feel the hollowness in the hotel room at the end of the night, like what follows is a choice between bitterness or gratitude

and that takes intentionality and it usually also takes community it takes friends it takes people who can call you on it and say hey you know what stop being a you know i need to figure out what i'm gonna say but you know stop being a jerk that was awesome yeah congratulations now how do you how do you keep being a good dad how can you live in the gratitude now what what do you do with that you know it's not what next but it's what do you do that you've done that how can you how does this enable you to serve your community better how does this enable you to be to love your wife better to to be a better neighbor better friend and so I think gratitude and community are really the antidotes for that. That's fascinating because I think the tendency I have is to say,

well, if a stage isn't going to help, if being a good husband isn't going to make me feel whole, then why try? And it's both and, right? It's cool to be really good at your craft and be well respected in your industry and to recognize that's fleeting and that doesn't define all of you right yeah i'll say this like when i've stopped i stopped playing music for a living like chasing that like i now know without beyond a shadow of a doubt that i am not going to be a major star as a musician okay because i'm a certain age i've moved into a different phase of it i still play a lot of music around town and work on records and write songs and it's so much more fun for me now because yeah i've put all the time into it so i'm

i'm decent at what i do. He's really, really good. I mean, it's nice to be able to... He plays Fenders and Gibsons, that's all I'm going to say. But it's nice to not have the pressure of it. Now you get to just enjoy it, right? It's as fun as it was when I was 13.

Because I'm doing it because I love doing it. And I get to learn about myself, and I get to write songs that serve my community. Right now, I'm doing it because I love doing it. And I get to learn about myself and I get to write songs that serve my community. Right now, I don't put out a ton of records anymore. They used to be every year. Now they're every five years. But my oldest daughter is 16.

My next is 14. My kids are going to leave my house soon. So everything I've been writing this last season, this next project that I'll put out, they're all songs for them for when they don't live with me anymore. This is what I have to say to you. If you can't get me on the phone, you can find me on Spotify. This is where I'm going to leave you little messages in bottles of what I want to say to you, and it's that God loves you. Pretty much that's it.

Here's a bunch of different ways and a bunch of different rhymes to tell you that God loves you. Pretty much that's it. Here's a bunch of different ways and a bunch of different rhymes to tell you that God loves you. And I'm having so much fun doing it. There's so much freedom in it. Because I'm literally writing all these songs for three people. But I think I've told you this. I got a copy of your last new record. And it was 4.30 in the morning. And I was heading to told you this. I got a copy of your last new record, and it was 4.30 in the morning, and I was heading to a hunting trip.

My son's dead asleep in the back, and I put it in, and I moved the speakers up where they're just in the little front part of the truck. And it was so good, I almost called you to tell you I'm driving down the highway in the pitch black morning crying i need you to know how good this song is and then i remember thinking it's 4 48 we're not that good of friends yet i'm a lot this is too much even for me and so i didn't say anything but i remember just thinking how does somebody connect this way then it's almost like because you got you've got you're not just creating good art bro but you're writing up

you're writing a love letter to your to your babies right you're writing a love letter to grandkids you're never going to meet um or great grandkids you you may never know about legacy that's something totally different i mean it's not saying that they're good songs but they're but it's fun to write them you know it's it's that's a different level of i want to connect so that i can make a bunch of money or i gotta have a number one the pressure oh dude the pressure of trying to you know and i've done that in in the artist world but i've done it now i've been in the business side of it for seven years and so that's long enough to have tried really hard to make something work yeah

and i know that that's never the thing that works a and b it's never fulfilling right because i'm just chasing the hit yeah and when you're trying to do the thing that to show everybody so that they respond to you and they respect you and like man that's that's never your best it's hollow right it's never your best work yeah it's hollow, right? It's never your best work. Yeah. It's hollow and nobody trusts it. Nobody believes it. How does it, a community, how does an audience, it's probably better than community, an audience knows? They know you're not being you.

Instinctively. It's got to just come through the, I don't know how that works, but that you can hear it and you just know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That person's not telling the truth and for some reason same production same instrument same studio you just lean back and go yeah that guy's telling truth oh yeah yeah i don't know man that's one of the that's one of the hardest things to chase in what i do is how do you capture when you know somebody and and you know they're trying to communicate something how do they do it in a way that that feels true and that that speaks to the heart of

somebody that's that magic uh gullhorn quote like how would you say it right like i want to tell my my brother that i love him how would you just tell him like say that right this is magic words all right so let's back out here you mentioned something that's um meant a lot to me and a community you're involved with has reshaped this for me over the last decade what this means and in fact it's become something a drum i beat all the time it's idea of you cannot do life without other people no yeah right and i'm thinking of the the the women who call the show who have had miscarriage number three, and if they get one more text message from their friends about the upcoming baby shower, or if they see one more woman walk through the grocery store with this new baby,

how do you have community and not hold on to that, man, you've got something I don't have? Because it feels very similar to the artist world. You've got buddies now who have their own names, have their own labels, and they're heading out on tour, and you've just got your fingers crossed, I'm going to get that call. And then some other guitarist gets that call.

Yeah, yeah. How do you retain community? How do you retain love with these folks and not let that demon of jealousy take your soul from you? Oh. Does that make sense? Yes.

I think you just described my 20s and 30s in that question. I've always just wondered from afar, there's just a bunch of guys in a bunch of different bands. And I know if I'm sold a million records band x if i invite you guys out with us i'm gonna change your family's financial position yeah but i'm gonna take them i'd have a hard time not being like dude yeah what about this guy you know what

i mean but that's i mean that's that has that's every industry that's every that's every job every family it's every situation why do you have a that you do. It's every family. It's every situation. Why do you have a husband that didn't cheat on you? Why do you have a kid that didn't get leukemia? I mean, that's a question we ask all the time. It feels particularly acute in your world as almost a daily occurrence. How do you have community with folks that you're also kind of like, man, I wanted that. Oh, dude.

I mean, you know, I mean, have a a couple mutual friends of ours who have become like i've watched i've watched a few friends become legends right you know like oh we were friends and now people don't talk about you the way they used to they talk about you the way they talk about paul mccartney you know and i have followed you in the bathroom yeah and we're the same right i know exactly what you're capable of. Right? You know, I've heard you and you're pissed off and you know what I mean? Like, I know you, but the whole world has said, we choose you.

Right? And there it goes. I mean, I think I lost a number of years to bitterness over that. And when I say lost, I out of i lost out on the relationships i could have had with people because i was so it was so hard for me to handle um i'm really going for it here aren't i uh is there a couch i can lay on um but it's but it's true you know i think it's so easy to say you know i can't even talk to that person because it's just too hard for me because i want to be i think i deserve it or they even talk to that person because it's just too hard for me. Because I want to be, I think I deserve it

or they don't deserve it or whatever it is. Or it's not fair. It's not fair. I worked so hard. You know, especially in America, I think we have this view that if we work so hard, we can, if we dream it, we can achieve it. We get it.

You know, go get your dreams, kids. And it's like, actually, the math doesn't work out. There's only so many, right? There can only be so many astronauts and presidents. Yeah. And that's hard. But at some point, you either, again, choose bitterness or gratitude. Am I thankful that I get to do what I do?

Or am I angry that I didn't get to do what they did? Because I got to do something that's wonderful. And I will never appreciate the wonderful thing that I did get to do, you know, because if I'm so focused on what they got instead of me. Is that a discipline you practice? It's absolutely a discipline. It is a choice. It is a wake up, put your feet on the ground, and decide to be grateful.

It's almost like I'm going to run every day so that the day shows up and I've got to sprint. I'm ready. Yeah. And it gets easier. Yeah. Because guess what? It's a joyful way to live. Right.

It's actually really fun to enjoy the things you get to do. And it's fun to celebrate your friends when wonderful things happen to them. That has become probably the most mind-blowing thing in the last two or three years for me. Is how problem-centric, how, hey, how are you, man? I'm fine. It's COVID, right? It's this and it's whatever. That's just how we greet one another.

It's hot. It's so cold. We don't greet each other with do things are actually pretty good right now yeah you know what i mean we don't have a an ethos for that and this idea of being able to celebrate your friends that has become the way i know that i'm in true community with somebody when i'm having a rough day and they tell me something great and i it's exciting to hear it and vice versa right yeah oh that's so beautiful though isn't it it is i struggle with understanding beyond time and weird like we experienced some stuff together we were on a bus for six months ago i struggle

with articulating how to cultivate that in just the average run of the day world other than sitting down the gratitude journal and making it a daily discipline practice i mean that's definitely you know scripture prayer i mean i don't know if this can we talk about that yeah yeah talk about anything you want to yeah um but that's how you i mean that's where it is right that's it's that's where you find that that's where you find peace that passes understanding and that's what you're really talking about is is peace instead of anger and jealousy yeah and when you can operate out of peace and joy dude you can do anything yeah then you can really do what you you know you can achieve your dreams because the thing that you dream

is loving and serving other people and when you're loving and serving other people have you found i mean it feels like the more you are focused on other folks the more stuff i don't want to sound all jay busy but the more stuff comes at you you know what i mean it is not jay busy yeah you don't do it for the roi of it you do it because you just hold life a lot lighter. But the truth is, if you're the person, literally, I just had coffee with a young singer-songwriter like two hours ago before I was here

who's got maybe some more resources than some others and is like, it's not happening for me. I'm working all day in my house just working on this stuff. It's not happening. I was like, working all day in my house, just working on this stuff. It's not happening. I was like, I think you need to invite other people over. Who can you serve? Make a list of people that you can serve with your resources and your time if you've got this.

The truth is, you're going to work on their stuff. You're going to get better. They're going to get opportunities. They're going to call you to be a part of it. That you serving your community is actually going to be the best thing you can do for your career right but but if you but it's not to do it for your career it's to do it because it's the right thing to do right thing to do right it makes you you're makes you a better person you get to you get to joyfully serve these people in the process of giving our lives away, we get so much more life.

Like that is true. It's hard, but it's simple. So let's shift gears here. You have been on the road with a number of people over the years. Gajillion, I would say, give or take. You've seen a lot of different versions of what dating relationships

look like what marriages look like what parenting looks like my guess is you know I've never talked about this my guess is you've seen some

and you're like probably wouldn't do it like that or you've seen some and been like that's aspirational I would love to yeah

lean into it that way again this is a show that's I'm a dork I went to a lot of college and so i've got a lot of clinical answers and i've sat with people i get so much from how art looks at different different ways of living your life how it informs it yeah as an artist who has spent so many so much time with other artists if someone was was to say, hey man, what are some tips and tricks

on being a great dad? What are some tips and tricks on being a good partner in a romantic relationship? What would you tell somebody? I mean, I would say first of all, I deeply wish I was better at both of those things.

Yeah. The moments where I have felt great joy in parenting and in husbanding, it's exactly what we just talked about. It's seeing

other people and serving other people. I remember we were at this thing at one of my kids' schools a couple years ago, and they said, if you really want to talk to your kids, one of the best ways you can love your kids is to get below eye level. And when you're below eye level, you're looking up at them, and it flips sort of in our brains how we process.

It's a power structure, yeah. How we can trust, right? And I immediately, so I started trying that, and I mean, dude, it works. Overnight, yeah. But what do we all want? We want to be seen and loved. We want someone to know us and to love us despite knowing us. That's right, yes.

Right? And to celebrate, call out the good in us. And that's what I want. And so, you know, we have amazing kids. I think a lot of that's because they got great genes

from their mother. And... The kids are incredible. Yeah. And you're kind. And so are yours. And... But I think it's...

A lot of it's that, you know, we spend a lot of time together. We have a very small house that we've desperately tried to get out of a few times, but it hasn't worked. But I honestly think having a small house has been great because we have to be in each other's business. We don't have the option to get away from each other. So we have to deal with it. So you have to be intentional every second of every day.

Yeah, and as much as it'd be nice to have three bonus rooms and five guest rooms, it's like, well, it's been kind of great to all be stuck in this little room with each other because here we are. Here we are. That means we're going to have to have uncomfortable conversations. Yeah. We're going to have to connect with one another. But that means also we get to experience what's on the other side of those things.

And that's been really, really fun. And I think to adventure with each other. And that doesn't have to mean a lot of money. But just explore and waste time together and build things. Just be creating things. Be side by side with each other as opposed to across from each other. And working on things together. This has been really fruitful.

Dude, that's so good, man. Is that old Rich Mullins quote that we tend to over-spiritualize Jesus? And I think with parenting, we tend to over-theorize it and over-academize it. Oh, man. And kids are just desperate for, we just hang out.

You just see me. Can I go with you to the store? Yeah. Can you ask me about kids are just desperate for, like, we just hang out. Just can we... They just see me. Can I go with you to the store? Yeah. Can you ask me about my day? Can we be silly on the way? Yeah. And can we sing

and will you sneak me some jelly beans? I mean, parenting can be really, really simple. Yeah. If I can put my phone down and put my desperate need for this other new series

I got to watch or this, my ambition for to be 40 and I got to watch or my ambition to be 40. And I got to still put those leather pants back on, bro. They say ambition bites the nails of success. Doesn't it, though? So last question here. You work with a lot of young artists.

You work with folks writing and processing and trying to put worship music out into the world. Yeah. Often, I think, if I think of worship music and you distill it down, it's what are the things burning holes in people right now? And when you talk to young people, their ambitions, you can kind of step back and say, what are their gods right now? Yeah. So as you work with young people, as you work with trying to, that bridge to connect with audiences, when you listen to what they are looping on, what their dreams are, what their fears are, and you've got a house full of kids, right? What are a couple of things you're seeing just out in the world that bring you joy? What are a couple of things you're seeing that make you really uncomfortable?

I mean, I am really blessed with an amazing community. I believe that the best work only comes from community. I was really just lucky, or the Lord smiled at me or whatever, to have sort of found a really great community super early on that I'm still super tight with and And we work together all the time, you know, 20, 20 some years now we've been in all of our roles are different,

but it's still the same people. Um, and that's been a real joy. And, um, one of the things that's given me the most joy is being in this position now where I get to sort of invite people to the table. But what I get,

what I do is I sort of set the table, and then I get to back away and hope that they become friends. And it's been fun to watch some of them create themselves. And there's a little FOMO because I want to be in it. Right. Because it's like, oh, but I'm a coach now. I'm not a player. And it's been wonderful to watch this community grow. and one of my uh colleagues there's a dear friend uh he calls the work we do

relationship farming wow you sort of plant seeds and you tend it but the lord's going to make things grow and and i'm not if i'm chasing sort of the hit uh then i'm trying to i'm trying to use people. But when I just bring wonderful people together and try to serve them, then they make wonderful things that will get hits. But that's not the point. That's a byproduct of it. That's a byproduct of it. So by us trying to really build a healthy community of people that we serve well, that equips a lot of communities around the world, you know, and they'll make things that will serve people. And that's really

been beautiful. What are you hearing from young artists, from young musicians that makes your heart skip? Like, y'all need to solve this, man, right? You'll need to get on this. Oh, man. I don't know, man. I just, I feel like there's a real, I can go so deep into this, and then you had the megachurch, and then you had the kids that grew up in the megachurch that are the millennials and Gen Z, or Gen X, and they had kids. And now the young artists and the young people are the kids of the millennials of, like they're the grandkids of the megachurch. And so you're seeing an embrace of less scripted worship, less scripted interaction with things.

They don't want to be programmed or they don't want to be sold to. They don't want to be marketed to. They just want to be with, huh? And the church is growing a lot smaller among people that age. And what I mean by that is not in number of people, actually, but they don't want to meet in groups of three five thousand they don't want to be a number they want to meet in somebody's living room and they want to be known it's just what we talked about the other stuff and so uh most of the young artists that i work with are in deep intentional communities of 50 100 200 people um They come in these small churches,

and they're doing just beautiful work because they're writing songs for my friend who just lost their mom, and not to try to get on the radio. Gotcha. Right? And so when that song gets on the radio, oh man, that's fun.

And then I hear it driving down the road, and I just lose a buddy. Yeah. And then somebody just puts a lightning bolt into my heart because they're writing to somebody and that somebody happened to yeah look a lot like me right yeah it's it's so that's when you get magic man yeah well dude i'm so grateful that you're now the player coach the only thing the only challenge with that analogy is there's got to be moments like when you're a coach coach like i can't jump like that anymore.

I'm old. My knees don't work. You have to sit there on the sidelines sometimes and be like, I can play that better than that guy. I know. Number one, you should not be playing a Jazzmaster because why is that guitar even made? And two, that's an inside joke.

He's got one. And two, I could probably play that better than you, but I got to let it go. Let it be out there. That can be a challenge sometimes. It's gratitude, right? I guess. But it's fun when you help them get it.

That's the fun thing. Is it though? See, I just mean, I just get to see you at the rhyme and sitting off into the wings to split with your gratitude journal. Like, I'm grateful for this opportunity to watch somebody just go kill it.

Oh, it's wonderful. Well, brother, thank you so much for being here. Man, I'm grateful for this opportunity to watch somebody just go kill it. Oh, that's wonderful. Well, brother, thank you so much for being here. Man, what a treat. We end every show with the greatest song of all time right before we started rolling. By the way, we talked about this earlier, but your show,

one of your most important songs for me in the last couple of years was one of the first songs we put on this show, the greatest songs ever. It's such an important song for me. But I asked you, what's your favorite song of all time? You immediately rattled this one off. We printed it off, brought it, so you can do the honor.

You're the first guy to ever get to close the show with their favorite song. We let Rachel Cruz, but she tanked it. No, McConaughey did his favorite too. So you were in good company with McConaughey, Rachel Cruz, and Ossenga. Well, I don't need this.

Oh, see, look at that baller move, dude. No, it's... It's imprinted on my heart. It's Paul Simon, who's just my favorite. And this is one of his later records. A couple years ago. I love it right now because he's not writing as a young man.

He's writing as an old man. Yeah. And I love hearing this brilliant poet write about sort of regret and loss and longing and the future. It's amazing. He's writing some of the best songs ever. But this song, I won't read the whole thing, but he goes, Who's going to love you when your looks are gone?

Who's going to love you when your looks are gone? Who's going to love you when your looks are gone? He says that a bunch of times. And then at the end of the song he goes, God will, like he waters the flowers on the windowsill. Take me. I'm an ordinary player in the key of G. And my will was broken by my pride and my vanity. Who's going to love you when your looks are gone?

Who's going to love you when your looks are gone? Dang. So good, right? And that's the guy that had all the looks. For a little while. For a minute, yeah. Wow. So good, right? And that's the guy that had all the looks. For a little while. For a minute, yeah. Wow. Garfunkel did.

Garfunkel was the looks. That's the looks. Kind of like this show. You're Garfunkel. I'm Paul. And he's got the looks. Hey, thank you so much for being with us.

Hey, everybody, thanks for joining us on today's show. This has been The Dr. John Deloney Show.