The Dr. John Delony Show - Talking About Sex With a Sexually Abused Child

Episode Date: July 1, 2022

In today’s show, we talk with a mom hoping to learn how to appropriately talk about sex with her sexually traumatized child, and a newlywed wondering if it’s okay that he doesn’t want any friends aside from his wife. Then, Dr. John breaks down gaslighting scenes in the Disney classic Tangled. Some Parts are NOT for Sharing – Julie K. Federico Lyrics of the Day: "Irreplaceable" - Beyonce Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Is it okay that I don't really desire any new friendships because of how much I enjoy spending time with my wife? What I've seen happen over time, what happens pebble by pebble by pebble. Their spouse slowly over time becomes the person they tell all their dreams to and all the bad stuff. What up, what up?

This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, the greatest mental health relationship podcast on the planet. Nobody ever said that except for me, but that's okay. Evidently, you can say whatever you want on the internets And it's true And since this is on the internets There you go America And internet, whatever It's good to talk to you

Hope you're doing well If you want to be on the show Give me a shout 1-844-693-3291 It's 1-844-693-3291 And why do we do this show? I don't want people walking around the world feeling like they're alone.

And I don't want people walking around the world feeling like they are connected to a system that's hurting them. And I don't want people thinking that they're the only one with these thoughts or trying to come back from hard things or in a messy relationship or frustrated with schools or in a messy relationship or

frustrated with schools or really excited about schools or don't know what they're doing with their kids. We just all feel alone. And so this show, man, we just want to walk alongside you and try to help you make the next right messy step. And that's why we're doing this, man. So I'm so grateful to be in this with you. Let's go right to the phones. Let's go to Ashley in Manchester. What's up, Ashley? How are you? Good. How are you, Dr. John? Good. Things going well? Yeah. My question for you today is how do you have the, this is where babies come from, with a child that has been sexually abused without it being a trigger for them.

Ah, that's a good question. So tell me more. Okay, so our daughter, she is eight. She was in foster care. We adopted her out of foster care about a year ago. She's been with us for about three years. She was sexually abused by her bio dad. So we've come a long way with her.

But obviously those questions are going to start coming up. Sure. And I guess I'm trying to just get ahead of what that looks like and how to really handle that. I love it. A couple things. One, thank you for loving the kids in your community. Take them on home.

That puts you in rare error. And I'm grateful to have gotten to talk to you today. Just you've made my day better. Just you and your family are incredible. Thank you. How old was she when the abuse happened? So she was originally put into foster care when she was five. Okay.

Like the, I know you feel this and this show is not about me. The Insta rage that happens when I hear that is profound, right? My daughter's six. And so I got to stop and catch my breath a little bit. So daughter got put in foster care. Where's dad now? He is in prison. Excellent. Way to go, America. All right. So that's just an aside. So the date is, I mean, the age is important for a couple of reasons, but has she started asking questions yet? Has she started getting into some of this stuff?

Like, tell me where she is. So, a little bit, just because my sister is about to have a baby. So, it brought up some, you know, brought up some questions and, like, what's happening. So has any of your conversations about, quote unquote, what's happening about your sister being pregnant, has that sent her into any sort of rage or anger or crying or hiding or anything like that? No.

Okay. So here's... I guess with the conversations we have had, I've more just tried to avoid it. Okay. Because I don't know if it's going to be a trigger for her or, um, I guess we really haven't had like a deep, you know. Yes. Inappropriate conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. So here, this is, oh, so glad you're calling. This is incredible. I'm so glad you're calling. All right. So what we want to do with her is begin to, here's what healing looks like for her. That she can understand that the one man on planet earth

that was supposed to love and take care of her stole from her, took from her, right? We want her to be able to have that understanding and also her body not take off on her. Okay? Right. And that's the healing journey she's going to be on for a while.

Right? And that will manifest itself in different ways and I'm assuming she's in counseling and getting the care and love that she needs the she was okay uh so we were doing when she first came to us um we were doing play therapy okay um which was great um but then the counselor that she had moved on and was getting a different job. Okay. And the way they put it to me was they were graduating her from counseling. Okay. Hey, that's actually a good thing.

Okay. That means a group of professionals looked at your child and said, this kid's incredibly resilient. She's going home to a stable family. And she, at this time, has able to, she's able to handle these thoughts and feelings when they come up, right? She's got a plan, right? Yeah. So here's what we want to do with her and with all kids, quite honestly, is we want to teach them that their bodies aren't weird or gross or somebody else's gymnasium and the way we do that is by norming talk about body parts about penises and vaginas and how they

work and where babies come from and right all those things and so when if you like when your kid says how'd that baby get in there and your eyes widen real big or your pulse starts racing. You're like, I don't want to say the wrong thing. Your kid absorbs. We don't talk about that here. Okay. And, or how's that baby get out of there? And you instantly turn bright red and you're like, oh, I don't know.

Yeah. As opposed to, you have a vagina. It's a special place in your body that only, that the baby's, right? Instead of it being as though we're having a conversation about a sidewalk or about bushes in the front yard, right? Right. Anything that deviates from that, kids are incredibly perceptive about what mom will and will not talk about, dad will and will not talk about. So norm body talk, okay? Don't be weird.

So I'm saying like, don't worry about setting off a trigger. If a trigger shows up somewhere, you'll know, you'll know, right? And then that will be a conversation to circle back with a therapist that says, hey, every time we happen to mention, hey, you need to wipe

after you get done going to the bathroom, which is a conversation you have with an eight-year-old, right? We go by the toilet and they haven't flushed and there's no toilet paper in there, right? Right. Every time we talk about wiping, she smashes the door or she doubles down on the floor and just starts crying.

That's going to be a circle back and that's going to give the therapist some data. Until then, don't let them absorb one thing about how their body is wrong or other. Okay. Because that's going to feed into the original violation, which is your body is somehow causes – your body – it's your body's fault that there's pain, that daddy's in jail, that you don't feel loved. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah. That makes sense. This also shows up with your other kids. It shows up with your husband. Just not being weird about talking about body parts. And here's the magic. Here's the other magic. When she's 11, 12,

or she's going to ask questions about menstruation and tampons and how does that work and why do you have that, mommy? She'll be happy. Just tell her, as a matter of fact, it is because it is a matter of fact. We've become so weird about our bodies, right? And there is a book that my friend, I've talked about on the show, Dr. Jennings gave me. It's, I got a picture of it here and we'll link to it in the show notes.

I've got no affiliation with this book. I won't make any money off this book or anything like that. But it's by Julie Federico, F-E-D-E-R-I-C-O. And the book is, it's, I mean, it's very, very thin. And it's just called Some Parts Are Not For Sharing. And it's about teaching little kids some parts of your body are for high fives.

Other parts covered by bathing suits are for you. You. Yeah, that makes sense. And generally you say mom, dad, and doctor and that's it. In this case, she understands dad's not safe right right so for this season it might just be mom right you see what i'm saying yeah um but having just this little

book that says yeah some of these private parts and then when you talk about because she might ask you a question about is that aunt so-and-so's baby still coming out of aunt so-and-so's vagina she might ask you that at church or she might ask you that in the store, right? And you can say, that's a private part and we talk about that in private. Or we talk about that, we have that conversation at home or we have that conversation around the dinner table, right? See what I'm saying? So there's a time and a place, but quite honestly,

we're going to let those things happen organically because an eight-year-old isn't going to understand the quote-unquote. I think the idea of the quote unquote talk is not good because kids don't understand we're having a moment, right? They understand, oh, this thing got weird and dad got tense and mom's acting strange. And now we're talking about this thing and I don't know much, but I will never bring it up again, right? Versus.

Yeah, because if you make it weird, then. Yes, yes. Maybe that's all of my babbling just now. Don't make it weird. Right? Yeah. And here's where this is hard for parents. Millions and millions and millions and millions of us who are parents

didn't understand that our bodies weren't gross or weird or somehow to be hidden or shameful or something. Until we were well into marriage and we had to go see a therapist to figure that out. Right. You might be there. And so you might have to learn a whole new way of talking about your body to yourself and to your husband and your husband and vice versa. You see what I'm saying? It can be weird because we've never done it before.

Yeah. That makes sense. Okay. I threw a lot at you. Tell me what you think. Feel. No, I think what you said, you know, makes sense. Let it happen organically. And yeah, just be very honest and try not to make it weird. Have you talked to her about what her dad did? honest and try not to make it weird. Have you talked to her about what her dad did? Have y'all had that conversation? Yeah, we have, which is kind of hard because, you know, she obviously,

she has, obviously she knows what he did was wrong and she's mad at him, but then she's also wants to, you know, go see him. Um, and you know, still it's like a, yeah, I don't know.

It's a weird. No, and that is the gap that will haunt her for a long, long time. Right. Until she's able to, her little brain is able to get some distance and space between her feelings and the actual reality of things. Because she's going to start, and if not, she hasn't already, she'll start in the next couple years beginning to blame herself for her dad being gone.

You know what I mean? Like, I shouldn't have said anything. I shouldn't have told. It's my fault that dad, I can't see dad. And he might even play into that. Hopefully he doesn't, but he clearly isn't a person of character up front. So it will continue to be part of y'all's conversation. And she will end up back in counseling, just FYI.

She'll come back. Puberty will be a whole new thing, right? But as we go there. That's kind of what I was wondering about, you know, because as she gets older, obviously, things like this are going to come up and, you know, brings up more questions and... So the challenge for her is going to be delineating. She has to have touch moving forward. And the person who's supposed to teach her what safe touch is violated that trust in a tragic, ugly way. So she's going to have to learn that over the alarm system that her body has sounded, right?

And that's just going to be the magic of therapy as she continues to navigate this. And you two, you and your husband, the rest of the family, finding that balance between no touches is not an important thing. It's the important thing. It's grounding for our bodies. You have to have it and somebody use that to hurt you. It's like water, right? You can drown in water and you can't go more than a few days without it or we die. It's the same thing, right? And so how, if you almost drown, I want nothing to do with water and everyone, how do you reintroduce that? That's the magic that we're aiming for here. I would rather you over, I would rather you err on the side of being completely open with her when she comes to you and norming talk about bodies in your house than adding another layer of this happened to me and it's just not okay to talk about bodies in your house, then adding another layer of this happened to me and it's

just not okay to talk about. Because the person who rescued me, she blushes every time somebody, I ask a question about pregnancy. See what I'm saying? I'd rather err on the other side. I also don't want you to take your eight-year-old out for pancakes and be like, all right, so we're going to talk about, that's too young, okay? It's not too young to answer questions. It's too young for the quote-unquote big thing. If, when she starts her period, that's going to be a time when you all go out. I want you all to celebrate that, have a moment with that, right?

Maybe get some other women in her life that you can say, she's safe to call and she's safe to call and she's safe to call. I think that would be a cool thing, right? And here's what this means. It's a moment. But I don't'd be a cool thing, right? And here's what this means. It's like a, it's a moment. But I don't know that eight's a little bit young to go, all right, here, you know what I mean? To have that talk.

I have had that talk with my middle schooler. Yeah. And I've talked about sex with my six-year-old, but when she brings it up. Right, okay. That makes sense. In very age- very age appropriate You know what I mean? In a very age appropriate way And it's not weird or it's not anything in our house Hope that helps

Man She's so lucky to have you She's so so lucky to have you That you're loving her and caring about her in that way She's been hurt At the deepest possible level In one of the deepest ways possible by the person who could hurt her the most.

And that, that pain, that wound will linger for years and years and years and years. And the only way she heals is through relationship connection, learning what good touch is, learning what safety is, and learning over time how to regulate her body when it takes off on her in situations. It's going to be a tough road to hoe. And that's why you and your family and your husband, y'all are, y'all are incredible. Y'all are absolutely incredible. And I'm just grateful to know you guys are out there. Everybody, Norm, talk about body. It's Norm.

It's all right. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to.

We do this at work, we do this in social settings, we do this around our own families, we even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy,

I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. And you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month.

That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slashcom slash deloney all right we are back let's go to chris in my hometown nashville tennessee what's up chris hey dr john how are you i'm good man what's up uh so i feel a little weird just asking this because i feel like it's just such a non-problem but hey so listen don't ever feel weird about asking questions because I feel like it's just such a non-problem. Hey, so listen, don't ever feel weird about asking questions, man. I'm glad you're, I don't even know what you're about to ask. I'm glad you're brave enough to ask it. That's awesome.

I appreciate it. So I've been married for just over a year now, and it's been absolutely incredible. I really feel like my wife's my best friend, and I really couldn't have asked for a better first year of marriage. And so my question is just, is it okay that I don't really desire any new friendships because of how much I enjoy spending time with my wife? I just hear you often on this show include having like separate friend groups, like going out and hanging out with your buddies or going out with a girlfriend that's like an ideal in a marriage.

And not only do I not really have that, but I'm just not really motivated to pursue that. Like whenever I'm invited to spend time with other people, I just kind of think, why would I do that when I can just spend time with her instead? So I'm wondering if that's an issue that's going to cause problems with me or with us later, or if it's just like a season of life that we're in

and it's nothing to worry about. I'm just, I'm confused if that's something that I even need to. So dude, number one, don't ever feel weird about asking that question. That's a great question. I spoke about friendship and love to 3000 business leaders a couple of weeks ago. And I got one negative review and it said, I don't need none of this crap. And I thought, man, this whole talk

was for you. The rest, I mean, every, everybody else was scored it through the roof. One guy's like, I don't need none of this nonsense. So let me, let me, let me explain it to you this way. Maybe this will help. Um, let's say you've got your first job out of college and you, um, take a job as a project manager, first job out of college at a teeny tiny little company. And the first week you're there, the company goes public and raises a billion dollars. And you didn't know this, but when you signed up for this company, you had 25% equity stake in the outcome. So overnight, you're a multi, multi, multi, multimillionaire. It's incredible.

Okay? This job is so good. And you think to yourself, dude, I am 22 years old. I don't need a cute little app. And I don't need a cute little app and I don't need a cute little budget. I have $250 million in my checking account, right? I don't need this stuff. And so you just go about your life and you put a whole bunch of it in Bitcoin.

You put a whole bunch of it into your friend, but new business, and then you buy a bunch of speculative real estate, and so on and so forth. And then all of a sudden, you look up six years from now, and the economy collapses, and you got zero. Because you didn't save it in a smart way, and you didn't continue to... You have a bunch of Ferraris that you can't afford the gas on, and you got seven houses that nobody can afford the rent on, right? So suddenly you find yourself in an absolute mess. And so other people are your emergency fund for life. You have had a remarkable first year and dude, it sounds like you married an incredible woman. Like high five to you, man. That's so great. And that also means you must be a pretty incredible guy, right? You'll have something special and it's wonderful. And I love that. And I want you to

continue to nurture that friendship. What I've seen happen over and over and over, and this is in the research over and over and over and in the reality is the vast majority of my helping, quote unquote, helping folks behind closed doors are people who are leaders of things. They run stuff. They manage things. They're the big wigs in your community. And over time, what happens pebble by pebble by pebble is they drown their spouse in their friendship. They drown their spouse slowly over time becomes the person they tell all their dreams to and all the bad stuff.

And they tell all the burdens. It's good to share and be honest, but man, she can't carry that and the romance and her own dreams and all of a sudden, the weight of being with you is too much. That's why we are designed to live in tribes and groups and people, right? In multiple people who, that guy's got the food, she's got the shelter, those three are taking care of the kids, we're designed to lean on multiple people

and you my friend are growing up in an era where um marriage has taken on a new life it's taken on a new um existential weight meaning up until about 100 years ago maybe 200 years ago marriage was like um for people to expand their empire. Like they hooked their kids up for political gain or for financial gain. Or, um, like I was a peasant and, um,

my wife was a peasant and we're like, Hey, you want to do miserable life together for a few years until we die? And it's like, all right. And what happened now, uh, my grandparents were married for 70 something years.

And she thought he was cute and he thought she was cute. But over time, they did life together. He was in the war. She stayed at home. They raised kids. They did life together. And after 72 years, they were soulmates because they took the same breath. And what now, what my generation and younger, we've been sold a lie, which is we're trying to reverse engineer soulmate first and trying to do

life second. It doesn't work like that. And so what I'll tell you is this, cherish your wife and know that the data tells me that when our bodies recognize that we are alone, that we don't have people in our corner, or maybe we got just one person in our corner, it will sound the alarms and the alarms over time show up in the form of dementia. They show up in the form of psychosis, of stroke, heart attack, cardiovascular disease, you will die younger is what the data tells me. Okay. So you've had a magical year. Your job went public and you made a whole bunch of money. I want you to steward that money well. So invest in her and give her a break. Invest in you. Make sure you've got other friends to do stuff with it. You can be open with it.

You can say, is this wise or not wise? And then she'll become, but a voice in, in the chorus. That is the wisdom that gets, that walks alongside you in the world. She's not the only voice you're hearing.

Does that make sense? Definitely. So let me ask you this. Have you always been a lone Ranger? It's kind of doing life alone, or is this relatively new or are i mean are you married and you're like y'all are just hooking up all i mean it's just awesome year i mean tell me where you are how did this happen so i have never had a lot of friends

i've never been a person to have a massive friend group i've typically kept it to like one to three to five okay really close people in my life and I've had that in every season in high school and in college. And sort of when I really initially when I met my wife, those friends that I had at that time, I met her in college and they kind of dissolved away because I was spending all my time with her. And that has basically been the case since then. We've been together now for three and a half years and it's really been the case. Does she have friends? It was basically the same way. She had friends in college that she brought over from high school. But again, when we got together, we really ceased any new relationships. One of my counseling professors told me something profound. It was great.

Never thought of it. She said, most people wait to go to therapy until there's a crisis, until it's almost all over. And she said, how amazing would it be? She said, it's like starting a workout program at a local gym the day you wake up with the flu. She goes, it doesn't make any sense. She said, if your marriage is perfect, that's y'all should start working on some of the things You would love to see different And so what I would tell you is this

Somebody in your marriage needs to sit down And it can be you, and say I love you more than The sunshine in the sky Write her a poem, I don't care But let her know that you love her And let her know That over the last couple of years, the intensity of your love has, y'all just kept rowing

this boat together and you've ended up on an Island and the Island's not safe for your marriage. Cause y'all are going to have a moment when there's a crack in the, every marriage goes through hard stuff, right? Um, I've got one of the, I don't say this lightly. I don't know a lot of people that's got as good a marriage as I do. And it has almost come apart several times. Okay? Like almost like I think this is over. Right?

I've done stupid stuff. She's perfect in all ways and all that kind of stuff because she can't defend herself. But all I have to say is there will come moments that you need to, you need outside support and love and care. And so there is no better time, no better time than right now when things are great that y'all say, hey, we need to start doing stuff with other couples. I'm going to get a group of four or five guys. We're just going to start, I don't know what you do,

play Dungeons and Dragons or go bowling or go hunting. I don't care what the thing is. And we're going to make it a goal that we're each going to have a couple of people that we hang out with on the side. And we're going to cultivate those friendships. And you're going to do it. Here's the thing. Even when you don't want to. So I have a rule that when my friend Blake sends the text around, hey, I'm getting the fights, almost always.

Tonight, the fights are coming tonight. Y'all show up. It starts at 9 o'clock. I like to go to bed at 9 because I'm a nerd. And I exhale. And my rule is if my first thought is I think I'm just going to go to bed, I have to go. I have to go. That's the rule.

And never, not one time, not one time have I ever regretted not going. And my wife says, you are better when you are with other people. The time we spend together may be less in hours because you spent those hours with those guys. But you were more at peace and you laughed more and you were more present with me. And I didn't have to hear about all of your conspiracy theories. I could just hear about two of them, right? Or all of your whatever. Please go get friends.

So let me tell you this. To answer your question, yes. You have to cultivate connection and community outside of your marriage. Everybody has to have a group that they hang out with and do life with and let me be totally honest with you since I started this job I've done a terrible job at that and now the my book is out the show's doing great I am I've been on I've been on the road I'm off now I found myself oh crap I gotta start over again I gotta find a group of guys to hang out with and I could do it on the regular and I'm going to, it means I'm going to have to budget differently. I'm going to have to budget my time differently. Here we are. Here we are. And so I found myself

with you, Chris, is what I'm saying. And I'm committed to going to make this thing right. And I want to challenge you in your life. If you want the best marriage possible, both of you have to have friends. We'll be right back. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving and life change and job change, and you've got a tornado of anxiety fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make. This is not a good

idea. So if you're a new home buyer right now, my advice to you is to focus on what you can control, like the people you choose to help you in the home buying process. You need folks like my friends at Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is a Ramsey trusted provider that's been helping people with their home mortgages for decades. And their Home Buyer Edge program will help you skip a bunch of the stress. Here's how it works. Apply to become a Churchill-certified home buyer and cap your interest rate for 90 days. Then you'll get a $5,000 seller guarantee to help your offer stand out. So go ahead, take a deep breath because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillmortgage.com slash D'Loni

and get the home buyer edge today. All right, we are back. So preface this next segment with this. Yes, a few weeks ago, I was on stage with Jocko. And I also like hunting. And I live in the woods. And I'm kind of a prepper. And I don't watch a lot of screen stuff. I do, but not a lot. And I exercise and I like ice baths. I try to be tough. And I also have a six-year-old daughter. And a lot of the times I watch, not always, but a lot of times I watch, it is cartoons and cartoon movies and things. So that's the preface. So one of the most common questions I get is,

what is gaslighting? Like, what is it? Why? What is it? I don't even know what this looks like. I hear it all the time. And now people are calling each other gaslighter, gaslighter. Gaslighting is this. Gaslighting is a form of control where someone makes you question your reality, right?

They make you feel crazy as a means of getting what they want. So a good example is you're with somebody in an abusive relationship and a few months later, you're explaining this to somebody, right? Or you explain to them, hey, you hurt me all the time. And they're like, I don't ever hurt you. You take things too seriously. And you just have really thin skin. So when I shoved you, I don't, I didn't push you that hard. I don't know what else happened to you, but I did not bruise you. Um, or, oh my gosh, I told you that, that you looked ridiculous and overweight in that dress. You know, I was kidding. Um, you know that you're the one that tells me that you want to lose weight, right gaslighting

It's a form of control whereby somebody makes you feel crazy. They alter your sense of reality As a way of getting what they want. Okay, so What does that look like in real life? What's a good picture of that? Um There is no better picture. I wish I had a better one. I'm sure there maybe exists, but I was watching a movie recently with my daughter and the movie is Tangled, right? And here's, let me set it up for you. The young girl Rapunzel, got some notes here, is forced to stay alone in a tower with a woman who's pretending to be her mother and who in reality kidnapped her

when she was a baby she makes rapunzel sing to her to keep her young forever and shelters her from the world sounds a lot like james's kids but whatever this is two so we got two different clips spliced together here um so yes as a gang we're all going to go through a couple of scenes here in, in this movie Tangled. It's an incredible display of gaslighting and I just want to walk through it a little bit. And also if you're listening to this on podcast, go to the YouTube channel and watch it. Okay.

Cause we've got a spliced up to where it's great. And Sarah's doing her editing magic there, but it's a great way to see it and to experience it. And if you sit on an actual experience, this, it, I get enraged. I get so frustrated and angry. So, all right. So here we go. Nate Dogg, let's hit the PLAY button and let's get after it. Hi. Welcome home, mother. Oh, Rapunzel. How you manage to do that every single day without fail, it looks absolutely exhausting, darling. Oh, it's nothing.

Then I don't know why it takes so long. Oh, darling, I'm just teasing. All right. So, Mother, as you know, tomorrow is a very busy... Look in that mirror. You know what I see? I see a strong, confident, beautiful young lady. Oh, look, you're here too.

I'm just teasing. Stop taking everything so seriously. Ah, that's it. Okay, I had to stop it. I want to stop it like four times just now. Ah, and thankfully, look at that look face. She's actually doing that anyway. All right, so I want to stop it like four times already. Here's the thing. Anytime somebody says something to you, followed by, just kidding,

that's a good sign. That's an alarm system that somebody's gaslighting you okay Here's a rule of thumb for life and it's an exhausting way to live and it's uh It's not always great. Okay. I'm just i'm prefacing that all right But gaslighting so prevalent in our culture we approach each other with sarcasm so much We have no way of entering into each other's spaces with, hey, how's it going? So everything's got to be a snark about the president or about a thing or about politics or about those people or about you and your shirt.

Oh, the nice shoes you picked today, right? And I'm as guilty as anybody. I just did this with James' kids. James has four of the most incredible children ever. Anyone who's around James' kids walks home with their head down like they failed as a parent. They just do. It's just the way it is. He's just a better parent than all of us. And the way I combat my shame of my kids, who the other night, I gave them all a bath.

Then we had dinner and we were quieting the house down. And then all of a sudden I look out the window and my two kids are sprinting into the woods. One of them has like a wooden sword. The other one's got like a shopping cart and a stick. Like what? I think of James's kids who are like, yes, papa. And then they go home and they like, anyway, I do that by, I don't know how to enter James's space and be like, Hey, by the way, you're a great dad. I don't know how to do that. That sounds weird. And like, we're going to hug or something. So what I do is I just make fun of his kids, right? And then I go, ah, just kidding. And so I want you to always be weary of the other side of a compliment.

Maybe weary is too strong, but just notice it. Hey, you do a great job. I just wished it was a little more better Or I really like the way you do the dishes I sure wish you could care about our kids as much I sure, man, it's such a nice thing you did for that person at church today I sure wish you loved your family that much Just kidding, just kidding Boom Right? Boom

Gaslighting is almost always insult followed by just kidding. And as a quick aside, one of the most shameful moments, and this is me being completely honest, one of the most shameful moments of my professional career is when I was in a counseling, this is when I was in a counseling conference. And the woman who was presenting said, by the way, you know the kids can't process sarcasm, right? And I was like, whoa, excuse me. And there's a room of us, right? There's a speaker. She said, yeah, up until about seven, eight, nine, 10,

kids cannot process sarcasm. They internalize it as fact. They may laugh along with you. And I was like, oh no. So I've had to shift. If you are somebody who's like, oh, there's our little butterball or look how fat and rolly you are in your swimsuit to your five-year-old or four-year-old. That's downloading as fact in your child's mind. And they may look at your face and mimic you and smile and laugh along with you. I'm just kidding.

You know, mommy loves you. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that to your 18-year-old. Don't do that to your 24-year-old. Lean into your children, to your kids, or to the people that you happen to have kidnapped and hidden in a tower. Lean into those relationships. Straightforward. Not with, just kidding. All right, here we go. Okay, so mother, as I was saying, tomorrow is... Rapunzel, Mother's feeling a little run down. Would you sing for me? Then we'll talk. Oh, of course, Mother.

Flower gleaming glow, let your power shine Make the clock reverse, bring back what once was mine hey do what has been heard change your feet's design save what has been lost rapunzel so mother earlier i was saying tomorrow was a pretty big day and you didn't really respond so i'm just gonna tell you it's my birthday ta-da no no no can't be i distinctly remember your birthday was last year that's the funny thing about birthdays. They're kind of an annual thing. Mother, I'm turning 18, and I wanted to ask what I really want for this birthday. Actually, what I wanted for it. Why did you hurt yourself?

Okay, okay. Rapunzel, please, stop with the mumbling. You know how I feel about the mumbling. Blah, blah, blah, blah. It's very annoying. I'm just teasing. You're adorable. feel about the mumbling. Blah, blah, blah, blah. It's very annoying. I'm just teasing. You're adorable. I love you so much. Oh, gosh. I was going to say how you're human, but she's a cartoon, so.

I want to see the floating lights. Okay, okay, a couple things here. Number one, remember I talked about how gaslighting is a twisting reality. She comes and says, hey, it's my birthday tomorrow. And she goes, ah, no, it's not. And she's she's like, it's an annual thing. It happens all the time. Nah, right? That little bit of you're crazy, you're crazy. And then the mumbling and the insults like, oh, you know how I don't like it. Don't do that to your kids, right? It's this, mommy's exhausted. Your mere presence is exhausting me.

And our reality is, no, I'm bringing joy to the situation. I'm bringing, just you exhaust me. What can I, what do you need from me? Now, the person, this evil human, evil cartoon character has created a world where she can only get, the young girl can only get what she needs from her. And then, oh, it's so exhausting that I've got to help you out. You locked her in a tower. There's no food. There's no water.

I don't know if that plumbing up there. I got to pull your hair to get up here, right? You've created a world that I have to rely on you. And then you make it a burden. This happens a lot in relationships. I don't want you going out with them. I don't like you hanging out with those guys. Cool.

I'm going to get some other friends. No, no, no, no, no. You just need to spend more time with me. Okay. All your time with me. I just don't feel comfortable when you go out with other people. Okay, cool. I always have to do stuff with you. I just don't feel comfortable when you go out with other people. Okay, cool. I always just have to do stuff with you.

You just wear me out. I just can't meet the needs of... Right, now we're into gaslighting again. All right, here we go. What? Oh, well, I was hoping you would take me to see the floating lights. Oh, you mean the stars. That's the thing you're crazy i've charted stars and

they're always constant but i need to stop it right here if you are in a relationship where you are constantly the victim of being uh of gaslighting the links people will go to not feel crazy often include, no, those are just stars. No, actually I've spent the last few years charting them, right? The links people will go, I would, but you're just overweight. No, I've actually been in a CrossFit gym for the last four years and I haven't eaten a carb since 1987, right?

I'm doing this work. People will go to the ends of the earth to not feel crazy. And a gaslighter will just keep moving the bar and moving the bar and moving the bar. Okay. They appear every year on my birthday, mother, only on my birthday birthday and i can't help but feel like they're they're meant for me i need to see them mother and not just from my window in person i have to know what they are it's so hard when we cut the scene there it's so hard for somebody who's being gaslit to actually say, this is what I need. This is what I need. And if you go back to the scene originally, this is so hard for me to watch because I deal with parents and their kids so much around this topic and relationships, marriages and dating relationships, so much around this. Somebody finally gets up the courage to say, hey, this is what I need.

And a good gaslighter says, you don't need that. And because of the ecosystem that's been developed, the first thought the person has is, oh, maybe I don't need that. Maybe I'm crazy. Or maybe I'm a bad person. Or maybe I'm evil. Or maybe I'm wrong. Or maybe I'm a screw-up.

Or any number of things. Black parsnips. I'm going screw-up or any number of things. what you said earlier. I hope you're not still talking about the stars. Floating lights. And yes, I'm leading up to that. Because I really thought we dropped the issue, sweetheart. All right. Remember I talked about beware of the other side of a compliment?

Now, by the way, I need to preface this. We all have to do better at accepting compliments. When somebody comes up and says, hey, you're a really great parent and you are,

say thank you and move on. Don't be like, ooh, what's coming next, right? But be wary of compliments. Always be wary of we language. Oh, I thought we were done with this. I thought we agreed that we were going to have sex every day, not just twice. I thought we, no, we agreed on that, right? And now suddenly I'm feeling crazy on behalf of we. Like, I thought we dropped this, says the evil kidnapper.

Uh, no, this is still a huge deal for me. Oh, you're a problem because I thought we were... No, Mother, I'm just saying you think I'm not strong enough to handle myself out there. Oh, darling, I know you're not strong enough to handle. I know. Declarative is the third one. I know you're not good enough. I know you can't handle it.

I knew you would screw this up. And a good gaslighter preys on our deepest fears that we're not enough. That we can't. And this evil cartoon stepmother has gone too far. All right. Know yourself out there. But if you just... Rapunzel, we're done talking about this.

We are done. Trust me. Rapunzel. I know what I'm... Rapunzel. Oh, come on. Enough of the lights, Rapunzel. You are not leaving this tower ever.

Oh, great. Now I'm the bad guy. Parents, how often do we fly off the handle and then we look at our kids and say, look what you made Mommy do. Look what you were late. You made Dad all angry. It's not true. It's gaslighting

It's a lie When we rage out Against our kids When we snap and yell at them When we act like children They don't make us do anything We are acting like kids We're acting like whiny brattyty kids. And then we blame them

for it. And our children spend the rest of their lives trying to figure out why they keep screwing up and why mom and dad won't love them. It's time we take ownership of who we are and how we act. So the greatest, hope that was helpful. For those of you asking about gaslighting, that's it, right? It's the compliment sandwich. And by the way, we teach that in business, right? If you have to give somebody some constructive feedback, you know why we do that?

Because most of us don't have good enough relationships with the people that we work with to say, hey, I need you to be on time, right? For real, be on time. And I've developed a relationship with James Kelly, the whole gang back here, when they say, hey, do it like this, please. Like, I know they're right.

And so we don't have to have like a, John, you're handsome. Hey, I need you to be on time. And I love your shoes, John, like a compliment. Because we have a relationship now. We've been in the trenches for a couple of years together now. Same with marriages, right? If you don't know somebody, you have to come up with a scheme,

right? So develop those relationships. Be weary of the other side of the, let me back up. Be weary of the other side of a compliment. If somebody's, be weary of, just kidding, right? Be weary of people who twist your reality to try to make you feel crazy. Gaslighting is abuse. It's dishonesty. It's a lie. You're worth more than that. We'll be right back.

Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings

and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, I was singing this earlier off air, and Kelly thought, this is the greatest. It's actually one of my favorite songs of all time. The song is by the one and only Queen B, Beyonce. And the lyrics, the song is irreplaceable, and the lyrics go like this. To the left, to the left. Everything you own in a

box to the left. In the closet? Yeah, that's my stuff. If I bought it, please don't touch. And keep talking that mess. That's fine. If you could walk and talk at the same time. And it's my name that's on that jag. So remove your bags. Let me call you a cab standing in the front yard telling me how I'm such a fool. how I'll never ever find a man like you. You got me twisted. You must not know about me. I could have another you in a minute. Matter of fact, he'll be here in a minute, baby. You must not know about me. I can have another you by tomorrow. So don't you ever for a second get to thinking you're irreplaceable. Kelly and James tell me that every day. We'll see you soon.

Coming up on the next episode. Hey! A couple weeks ago, she started hanging out with a gentleman from work and began cheating on her fiancé. She wants to be with him, and I think ultimately he would be her choice. But in order to be with him, she has to marry him now, move with him, choose the military life for the next three years. She doesn't want to be with him. She wants to be with the idea of him. She has to marry him now, move with him, choose the military life for the next three years. She doesn't want to be with him. She wants to be with the idea of him. Basically, whenever I need to speak up for myself or perhaps correct someone, I usually have a severe anxiety and get

a fight or flight or freeze response. Who told you that how you feel doesn't matter