The Dr. John Delony Show - Talking to Your Teenager About Sex

Episode Date: May 26, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A father wondering how to have the “sex talk” with his teen son - A woman unsure if she should divorce her husband - How to find the right counselor for you Enter the Ramsey Cash Giveaway here Shop the $10 Sale here Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm the dad of two boys. In today's day and age with the internet and devices and all the things, how do you appropriately have the sex talk and cover all of that? And what's an appropriate way to normalize discussions about relationships and intimacy. What is going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Literally the greatest mental health and marriage parenting podcast ever exists. Ever. Ever. We talk about whatever's going on in your life, mental health challenges that you're struggling with, or that your family members are struggling with, how to be a better parent, how to be a better spouse, or how to figure out what in the world is going on in your relationship.

Whatever's going on in your world, I'm going to walk alongside you and we're going to figure it out. I may not know the answers, but I promise I'll tell you the truth and I might refer you out and tell you to go talk to somebody else, but we will figure this thing out. If you want to be on the show, go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K on the internet, and just fill out the form, and it goes to Kelly and Jenna. And actually, if you fill it out today, Jenna will not be paying attention because this is the week of the Taylor Swift shows.

Both of them. Oh, my gosh. I've already got my merch on. I'm ready. How do you pre-buy merch? That's the most my gosh. I've already got my merch on. I'm ready. How do you pre-buy merch? That's the most millennial thing I've ever heard. I mean, they had a whole truck set up. I just had Chris went down for me.

He texted me. He said, hey, what you want? And I said, I know exactly what I want. And he got it. You told him what you wanted? What you really, really wanted? I did. I did. And I really, really got it. Wearing it today. That's a husband right there. That is not.

No. He's not my husband. What's your husband's name? Reed. This is Chris. Chris Wright. Oh, your boss. Yeah.

I told him the merch truck was there, and he said, oh, I'm going to go down after work. I told him I couldn't go. And so he said. He's a massive T-Swift fan. This is one of the guys from your band. He's in Dumb Button. Let's be very clear about that. I did not know he was a Swifty. said, he's a massive T Swift fan. This is one of the guys from your band. He's in dub button.

Let's be very clear about that. I did not know he was a Swifty. Oh, he's a full on Swifty. He's going Sunday night. We may have to reshuffle our band lineup. Yeah. We need to circle the wagons on this guy.

Wow. Kelly though, will be there to answer your phone call because she does not believe in joy or concerts. So that'd be great. That'd be good. Um, or happiness. So she will be willing to answer your phone call because she does not believe in joy or concerts. So that'll be great. That'll be good. Or happiness. So she will be willing to take your emails. Hey, and don't forget to hit the subscribe button or the

like button. And Ben, I like T-Swift too. I can't lie, man. She's good, man. I was strong of you to say that. This is a show about vulnerability and telling the truth. She's good, man. She's real good. She is. It's annoying how good she is, especially when I'm middling at my job.

All right, let's go to Jason in Colorado Springs. What's up, brother Jason? Oh, you know, just partying over here. Yes, me too. It's kind of early to be partying in Colorado Springs, but that's all good. So what's up, dude? Yeah, it's all right.

Well, I wanted to get your opinion. I'm the dad of two boys. One just turned 13. And so this is kind of like a two-parter. I'm kind of wondering in today's day and age with the internet and devices and all the things, how do you appropriately have the sex talk and cover all of that? And kind of tagging onto that, What's an appropriate way to normalize discussions about relationships and intimacy? It's a great question, man. Um, can I, can I beat you up, but not cause I don't like you, but just cause it will send a message to all the other parents. Is that cool?

Yeah, absolutely. Cause I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking these things. I know you're not. So I'm really grateful that you called. So I think to start out number one, 13 is way too late, probably by seven or eight years. If not more. Okay.

I think the days well, let's just be honest. The sex talk as a singular event is an utter failure. It doesn't work. It never has worked. It didn't work for you and me. It didn't work for anyone. We know nobody walked out of the sex talk and they're like,

Oh hell yeah. Now I know how to do this. And my dad's awesome. And he'll always be a safe place to go talk about girls. I mean, that has, that, that has never happened in human history, ever.

It has just been like, wow, I will never talk to them about anything ever again because all of my body hurts after that call. Right? You know what I'm saying? And honestly, that's part of my second part of that question is because when I got that talk, my dad wouldn't even do it. My grandpa had a couple of gin and tonics

and asked me if I knew how to put on a condom. So I didn't want to talk about any of that with anyone ever again. That's one of the best sex talks I've ever heard right there. That's, that's, I mean, so I had it all figured out and, uh, but I just want something better for these kids, you know? Yeah. So I, I, I think ultimately the sex talk, that idea comes from a faulty notion. And it's about sex. It's about anger and rage. It even bleeds over into the conversation about suicide. If we bring it up, that it's going to suddenly give our kids insights into something that they didn't know exists.

And that's not true because their bodies exist. And so what our silence does or what our, when we turn beet red in our face, we're like, or we get all nervous. Or when a kid asks us something innocent when they're six or nine or 10 or four, and our eyes start darting around the room looking for our spouse or whatever, they absorb all of that. And so the greatest thing parents can do is just to norm sex, to norm bodies, because it should be happening inside their house, right? So what's going to change is the details and degrees, right? I am never going to go into gruesome detail about me and my wife,

like into, you know what I mean? That's not appropriate. My son will be in more therapy than he's already going to be in. But the other day, my daughter's seven and I, dude, I'm just, let me tell you the rules of my house. Number one, every conversation is on the table, a hundred percent all the time. There is nothing in our house that we won't talk about or discuss. And so that's just an ethos, right? And that can be about religion, that can be about political topics, that can be about anything. We also don't gossip, so we don't talk crap about other people. So my kids know that it's just not a free-for-all. And the rule that my wife and I have is any question that gets asked,

whoever gets asked answers it. So there's not a big production. There's not a big confetti falling from the sky and the big talk, right? What it is, is like the other day, I'm literally just, I'm doing something in the kitchen and my daughter's sitting there at the counter. She's seven. And she just says, hey dad, I just don't understand this. And I was like, what do you understand, baby? Dude, it could have been, I don't understand how wolf dragons are create fire. I mean, it could have been any number of things coming out of her mouth. And she said, I just don't understand how your part gets into mommy to make me. And I just started laughing.

I was like, I guess we're doing this right now. Right. And my wife walks by and she has a huge grin on her face because she knows the rules. She walks behind my daughter and just keeps on walking. It's not a weird thing in our house. And it ended with, yes, we are naked. And my daughter goes, oh, no. But it wasn't a, there was nothing weird about it.

You see what I'm saying? Last night when I was carrying my daughter to bed and we were hanging out in my room, I was carrying her to bed and I said, hey, when we walk by, I want you to kick mom. Like we were just being silly. And she goes, no. And I put her foot by my wife's shoulder and my wife leaned over and kissed her on the top of the foot. And I whispered to my daughter, I will never kiss her again. And my daughter starts dying laughing, right? So that's just an ethos in our house. Now we are silly and goofy and not every family's like that and that's okay. But I think the greatest conversation is asking questions, all like just constantly asking questions, constantly you and your wife talking about it, not in a gruesome or gross way or making light of it, but just the kids are going to absorb what's okay to talk about and what's not okay to talk about. Okay?

The second thing is my parents, your parents, they got to play defense. They got to just try to keep Playboys out of the house. Right? They got to try to keep HBO out of the house. Right? They got to keep try to keep like HBO out of the house. Those days are long gone. They're over. And so I don't allow my kids to have phones and I know

I'm way in the minority on that and I'm 100% confident, not even a shadow of a doubt in my life that the arc of the next 10 to 15 years that I'll be proven correct on that deal, but I just don't allow it. And then when your kids get older and you decide to hand them a phone, you have to know I'm handing them over to every playboy ever in the human history

is right on their phone. Every pornography app, every video ever recorded is on that phone. And please don't make videos of your own please don't ask people for photos of your own because now you're trafficking child so i think you have those conversations very very directly but listen those conversations have to be set up early right so i have a hard conversation with my son at 12 because his stupid school just hands him chromebooks and I Tell him about hey if you put something in an email to your friends

It will be there for eternity And I told him about a joke that I thought was really funny when I was a kid and how utterly disgusting and offensive It is now that I know better And so I I went first leading with here's what i've done wrong. Thank God it's not in writing. And so I start the conversation there so that in three or four years, I can tell them, hey, somebody's going to send you a picture of them without a shirt on. Please, please delete that immediately and let me know. Let your mom know. And so I'm trying to set up that So that when I say hey, we need to have a talk. It's not he doesn't his body isn't going to fight or flight

He just knows dad has these kind of talks with me because he we're open in the house. Does that make sense? It does and I will say Those are the kind of talks we have had because we did give him a device And you know, we laid those out pretty, pretty frankly. Okay. If you've got a 13 year old with a device, you better have 100% access to every, every, every keystroke on that thing. Absolutely.

And know that they can get around it cause they're smart. Right. And the same way you and I got around all my parents' rules. But man, I mean like there's some apps out there that every text he gets, you get. Every website he goes to, you get. I would have every nook and cranny of that thing covered. And again, it's because we're handing a device to a child that can ruin their professional life. That's such an extraordinary responsibility that we're putting in their hands. They can send the professional life. That's such an extraordinary responsibility that we're putting in their hands.

They can send the wrong text. They can ask. I mean, and they're 15. Of course, they're going to ask somebody to send a picture. I mean, they're 15. I'm not going to blame a kid for wanting to see somebody

the opposite sex naked. They're 16. They're 19. I would never, like, that's not on them, that's on us We're adults, right? I would have those conversations Regularly

And I'm just making it a part of life and conversation Yeah In your house Where does it get awkward? It gets awkward in, uh, him getting to getting him engaged in any of those conversations. And I understand it because this kid is a carbon copy of me. I mean, I, I, yeah, I, I know what's going through his brain, right. Cause he's just

me just younger. And he's gone from the last couple of years, you know,'s going through his brain, right? Cause he's just me, just younger. And he's gone from the last couple of years, you know, from like a pudgy short kid to all things just exploded into, you know, uh, a full, a full teenager in a man-sized body, you know, I know what's going through his brain and he doesn't want to talk about any of it. He doesn't want to, he won't even, I mean, we can go to a school function and he gets plenty of smiles from the girls and stuff. And if we try to even talk about that, he just does not want to talk about it one bit. Right. So I think a going first and hearing you talk about it. So maybe the next time your wife walks through quietly whisper to him, my God, she's beautiful.

And never be gratuitous and never be gross and never be like, oh man, I can't wait till, no, that's inappropriate for parents and kids. But letting him hear you honor how beautiful your wife is. Yeah. Asking him, hey, I'm going to do something really nice for nice for her like what do you think she would be into and what you're doing is you're teaching him to keep his eyes open right so it's a it's a broader conversation than just doing it it's a broader conversation than just like bras and i mean the whole thing is a broader conversation and keeping your eyes open and what is dignity, what is respect look like, all those things. Most of the time, the awkwardness that kids absorb and experience is reflected somehow in their parents. Yeah. not describe to you the millions and millions and millions of moms and dads who see each other

naked and have sex and have babies and cannot talk about sex amongst between the two of them. They can't talk about what they're into, what they want to try, what they are awkward about, and it just permeates the house. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And so there's something to be said for couples. If you're going to raise kids, y'all have to be able to talk about sex. Because if y'all can't talk about it, God help your poor kids.

Right. And they just grow. It's kind of like if you have one in-law who's a little bit out to lunch, right? And if you bring it up, like one of y'all gets really touchy about it. And just the kids just learn, don't talk about granddad. Because whoa, mom gets fired up. Yeah. It's very similar with sex.

If you can't talk about it behind closed doors, your kids are, they're going to know it's not okay. Okay. Are there things that you and your wife can't talk about or that are weird or awkward or make you blush? Um, not really, but also not, there are,

we talk about pretty much anything, but behind closed doors, right? Like we're not, we're not talking about, there's a lot of things that her and I just talk about together privately anything, but behind closed doors, right? Like we're not, we're not talking about, there's a lot of things that her and I just talk about together privately. Okay. And it should be that way.

It should be that way. You shouldn't be like, Hey honey, you want to try this? Like I think it's a dinner table. That would, no, don't do that. Right. Right. But I mean, probably the whole, you know, the full extent of any of those conversations happens is between the two of

us and never, never in front of the kids. There you go. So I think there's something about being intentional about holding your wife's hand, being intentional about hugging every morning, being intentional about kissing your wife in front of your kids. Yeah.

Letting your kids see that you are a sexual being without being pervy McGee. Yeah. Right? And I know my kids, my son's old enough now that his kids, his friends listen to the show sometimes and give him crap about it. So I don't want to embarrass him, but I, I, I don't really give him an option. Like I'll tell him, Hey, we're going to talk about this or I need the update, man. He's like, I think, Nope, I need the update, man. And so we're pretty open about it. Pretty open about it. And, um, I also

want him to have other men in his life that I do. I'm his dad. I know it's always going to be weird. Um, but I want him to have men in his life that he can talk to also. Um, so whether that's a coach, um, whether that's one of his buddy's dads, whether that's a minister or somebody that he trusts from a local church, whatever that is, that he's got people in his life that he can talk to. And I'm that for several of my buddy's kids. They can call Uncle John and ask him all kind of weird stuff and they know I'm going to tell, I'll be able to answer them and I'm not going to turn all beet red. And I'll ask them for help with finance or help with, you know, if my kid wants to go to trade school or something, I'll call John King.

So anyway, all I have to say is this. Don't make it this singular event. And by the way, I do believe in events for 13-year-olds. I think that's an important thing. But it's a total event. Like you're becoming a man now. You're becoming a woman now. Like you are transitioning. I think that whole an important thing but it's a total event like you're becoming a man now you're becoming a woman now like you are transitioning i think that whole thing is incredible but that can't be the sex talk with a period at the end of it talking about sex talking about body parts

talking about your nothing is wrong with your body nothing is not one thing is gross about your body not one thing you should be ashamed of about your body. Some things are private. Some things are not for the world. And there's some great books about that. Some great children's books that talk about private parts and like behind bathing suit parts, things like that. It's great, man. But those need to be constant conversations that start really, really young and just are integrated into the household so that kids never feel ashamed of themselves. And they never think that sex is some great, it's just not some mysterious, crazy thing. It's just this amazing, rad, awesome thing, especially inside of a context. And, um, it's awesome. So good for you for being a great dad, man, keep loving your kid

and just start the regular conversation. And when he doesn't want to be a part of it, he's, he's 13. Of course, he doesn't want to be a part of it. It's your job to bridge that gap. Um, and to let him know that it's, it's, he's safe and it's comfortable and it's all good. And, um, that you think his mom is beautiful too. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season.

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Let's go out to Nicole in Orlando. What's up, Nicole? Hey, Dr. John. What up? Not much. How you doing? Partying. Part. What up? Not much. How you doing? Partying. Partying. You?

I'm trying not to freak out because I usually only talk to you like in my head, and now I'm actually talking to you now. Like, for real. Promise. I'm way smarter in your head than I am in real life. Way, way smarter. Yeah, that's why it usually works. What's up? Yeah, so I was calling because I'm really struggling on making a decision about if I should stay in my marriage just for my son. No. You know. I don't even know what the answer is. But no.

Why do you want to leave your marriage? Actually, the way you just asked that question, why do you want to leave your marriage? Actually, the way you just asked that question, why do you need to leave your marriage? Well, so we got married pretty much just because, well, we definitely got married just because I was pregnant. He comes from a religious background where it was like either break up and not be together or get married.

So we got married, which we you know, we were dating for a while, but I don't think I would have ever married them. It wasn't because of that. Okay, but you did. So here you are. Yeah, yeah. So we've got all this background stuff. It just is what it is. Y'all are here now. Why isn't it not working now? Well, the first time it wasn't working was just because, you know, we kind of decided that we were going to call it, you know, getting to know each other better, being married. You know, we were both

really unhappy. He doesn't celebrate holidays because of his religion. And, you know, that was very stressful. But when pandemic happened, we never, I never wound up like actually leaving and, you know, essentially got together. And then as I was like really kind of trying, I found out that he was sleeping with the neighbor. So, you know, it broke my heart. And, um, when I kind of, I guess kind of got open over the broken heartedness about it, then I was obviously like angry. And, you know, I asked myself the first time we were deciding to split up, I was okay with it. I don't know if it's because my son was more like a baby, couldn't even talk yet. Now he's five and I just feel like I can't picture

a single day going by where I don't wake up and he's there. Can I just be real direct with you nicole? Of course, this isn't about your son, man I get that you you can't imagine your life with with like for a second. I get that too 100% like I I Um, I am unnerved by how much I love being around my kids. Okay, almost I have to right I I it's strange for me I get that But this isn't about your kid and I don't want you to make decisions Almost I have to, right? It's strange for me. I get that.

But this isn't about your kid, and I don't want you to make decisions right now through that lens because you're going to end up, if you leave, and some of the data tells me that your net worth will go down, your life will get harder for a season especially,

that all, I don you don't get, I don't want you to blame a five-year-old for that. Or if you stay, I don't want him to be the reason that you're miserable and unhappy. And that's the position you've placed this five-year-old in. So I know you want to see him every day. You love him more than life itself. All that is incredible.

You have to make an adult decision about an adult relationship. And he can't be the glasses that you are wearing to make that decision. I mean, I've been, you know, thinking about it for so long. And it's just like, I, I, I totally understand what you're saying, but like, you know, there's other people that I see that, that do this all the time. And I feel like for some reason, like I, I can't like handle it. Like it's, it's all about my son. Like I, I feel like I would put up with like, you know, basically like a marriage to just, sorry, to just be, to be, you know,

with him all the time. Like, you know, listen, if you do that, that's this, that's an incredibly selfish thing because you are teaching him. You're using him as a pacifier.

You're using him for you to feel better. And in the process, you're like, you're using him like a blanket. And in the process, you're teaching him, this is what love looks like. This is what women deserve. This is what dads do. This is what husbands do. And you're just putting cinder blocks in his backpack that he's going to have to spend his whole life unwinding. Yeah, that was kind of what I was afraid of.

It is. If you don't want, if your husband cheats on you with your neighbor and you don't want to be married to him anymore, don't be married to him anymore, but be an adult and you make an adult decision and live with the consequences of that decision because you've already made the decision to get married to that guy. And you can't blame anybody. You can't blame his religion. You can't blame, you chose that. And if you choose to stay with somebody who cheated on you, great. Y'all figure it out. That happens all the time. And people rebuild their relationship

completely anew. And they come up with something that was stronger and more magnificent. I don't want to say more magnificent, like good thing this happened, but man, it recontextualizes what I'm worth and what I value and what I will and won't put up with. It just changes everything. And you get to pick that.

But you're choosing misery in a relationship right now. And I just, and you're making it your five-year- relationship right now. And I just, and you're, and you're making it your five-year-old's fault. And I just don't think that's, that's fair to him. Yeah. What makes you think that your husband cheats on you?

What makes you think, um, that you're going to have to split custody? Um, well, I know that the, the law in Florida is it's a 50, 50, a 50, 50 state. So yeah.

Will he fight you for custody? No, he wouldn't fight me. I think he would be pretty agreeable to being, you know, 50, 50. It's just, it doesn't feel good enough to me, you know, in a world if I could just have him and go, I would have done that. But I know I have to share. Have you asked your husband that? Yeah. And he said, no way?

Yeah, of course. I mean, we're both super in love with him. So what keeps you and your husband from going away for a weekend and figuring this thing out? I mean, I'm not totally sure on that. You know, I mean, the reasons why we kind of decided to not be together in the first place, you know, obviously like holidays are kind of a big deal. We don't really have the same kind of beliefs. Is your husband willing to lose his marriage over these things like holidays and stuff? I don't know.

Because here's what it sounds like to me. It sounds like you got two people who are kind of dug in, but it's almost like World War I. They're entrenched in a position, and the people fighting don't even really know how they're fighting. And you start creating stories about the person on the other side

that you're fighting not realizing that y'all are way more similar than you are apart usually not always usually in this kind of situation one of y'all is desperate

for the other person to flip the lights on and turn the music off and say what are we doing because if there was no smoke left in this relationship at all not one spark for the other person to flip the lights on and turn the music off and say, what are we doing? Because if there was no smoke left in this relationship at all, not one spark, I think you would have laughed. Are you able to tell me this thing is done, dead and over? Or if he was to sit down with you and say, hey, I love you. Man, it's been a rocky go. We got in a rocket ship that we didn't even know what we were doing,

but here we are. I want to make this thing work. Would you be all in or would you be like, not too bad? You slept with a neighbor. There's no judgment either way. I'm just trying to build a context here. Yeah, yeah. I could see myself being all in,

and that's kind of where I find myself now is like, do I make that decision to be all in or not to be all in? And, you know, my top of my list is my son. So, you know, if there's any risk of losing him,

then I feel like I should stay. But then if I'm only staying because of him, then, you know, it's a lot harder to think of why I would stay. I want you to do some soul searching, not about your son. You know where you stand there.

But it feels like you got hurt bad and you are scared to get hurt ever again. And so you're going to go to the beach like wrapped up in a huge blanket so you can get no sun on you because one time you got burned. And what you're going to go to the beach wrapped up in a huge blanket so you can get no sun on you because one time you got burned. And what you're going to do in the process is miss the entire trip to the beach. You're going to miss your whole life. The only way your marriage works moving forward is if you're willing to get hurt again. And I hate that about relationships, but it's just the truth.

All relationships are a risk, a hundred percent of them. The one way you can mitigate that risk is you take the lead. And I think your whole life you have been just being led around by the nose. Fair? Yeah. Doing what everybody else in your life wanted you to do. And I'd love you to take the lead and take this guy out if you're in. And now I'm pushing you one way because that's the way I feel like we're going on the phone. I could be way out to lunch. So don't just do this because I'm saying to, okay? But I'd love to see you take him out somewhere and get a babysitter and look at him and say

i'm not done with this thing everything's got to change all of it me you what i'll accept boundaries all of it but let's put it on the table and either we're gonna both be all in or we both got to figure out what being out means but But this halfway thing is killing you. It's killing your husband and it's destroying your son. Yeah. Is that fair? Yeah. Yeah. I've never really thought about like, I've thought about having a conversation with him, but I never really thought about actually telling him what I want for the future, if that's even possible. Lay it out there. Lay it out there. Because the worst you can say is no,

and then you get your answer. Yeah. And then you got to grieve your marriage and you got to figure out what divorce looks like and all the hell that that is. But there is a chance, he says, oh my God, thank God. And I want you to have written down, spent some time.

You may need to go see a counselor, spend some time or get with a couple of your friends that you trust deeply. Here's what I need moving forward. And that can be everything from, you got to get off your stupid phone to I'm going to have to go through a rebuilding season where I'm going to learn to trust you again because you were banging the neighbor while I was trying to keep our house together. Right? I want you to lay down all these things that you need, these things that you want, and then he's going to have his list too. And you've probably been pretty cold the last few

years. Fair? Oh, definitely. Okay. So let's figure out what this thing's going to look like. Lay all these things out and say, can you live with this? Can I live with this? And it may be a disaster, but at least you have an answer. At least you're not living halfway, one foot in and one foot out, because everybody's getting hurt this way. Is that fair? Yeah, definitely. Will you do me a huge favor? Will you let me know how that conversation goes?

And let me tell you this. If you show up to this conversation and just start throwing grenades, he's got to fight you back. Go to that conversation and say, here's what I need, and here's what I need. And here's what I want. I want to go all in, all in. Or if you spend some time thinking about this, writing your needs down and you realize, I am done. I'm done, done, done. Then take them out and say, I'm done. We need to figure out what this is going to look like. And I'd love to see if you'll be okay with weekends instead of weekday, whatever.

But we can figure something out. It works for both of you. But let's stop living halfway. Either go all, all, all in and risk getting hurt again. I'll go ahead and say it. He'll hurt you again. He'll say something stupid.

He'll do something dumb. You'll hurt him. You'll say something stupid. You'll do something dumb. That's marriage. And You'll say something stupid. You'll do something dumb. That's marriage. And then it's going to be about, are we willing to repair? Are we willing to go back into the cycle again? Let me know how this goes.

I actually have really high hopes for y'all. It's going to take somebody being a grownup. Maybe that can be you. We'll be right back. All right, we're back. And here we go again. It's Facts Are Your Friends. Let's do it.

Ah, geez. All right, today we are talking about how to find a therapist. How to find a therapist. We've talked about this on the show before. It continues to be one of the most common questions we get. How do I find a counselor? How to find a therapist. We've talked about this on the show before, and it continues to be one of the most common questions we get. How do I find a counselor? How to find a therapist? How to find a social worker? What's the difference? All that kind of stuff, okay? So we're going to talk about how to find the right therapist. I'm going to give you a couple of bullet points here

that you can follow. Pull out a pen and a paper, write this stuff down. So here we go. Number one, I want to define what they are and what they are not. Okay. So when you think of mental health professional, you can start with your local doctor and your doctor, your regular doctor, your primary care physician is going to get a couple of classes on mental health stuff, on psychiatric stuff. They're not going to usually get classes on how to deal with trauma. In fact, almost never on how to sit with somebody over a long period of time. I will tell you the first time I went to go get help, I went and met with a medical doctor, but he was a buddy. So I had a relationship with him and remember the word relationship because that's going to be really

important. A psychiatrist is a medical doctor, okay? That's a medical doctor who goes to med school and then goes on to specialize in psychiatric care, mental health issues. I'm sad to say that most psychiatry nowadays is entirely medicine-based. It's entirely biological. Very few classes, if any, on therapy, on sitting with somebody. It's all moved to managed care, get you in, hear your X number of symptoms,

give you a diagnosis at IC10 codes or out of the DSM, and then get you on, get you meds and get you out of here, okay? Psychiatry, I think can be used great as an adjunct to counseling care. And most of the research suggests that you need to have that medicine works in conjunction with counseling, some sort of talk therapy or some sort of action therapy. But that's where some people start. Okay. Some people start there. A psychologist, a psychologist is the next rung, if you will, in the hierarchy.

So if you look at mental health professionals, there's a hierarchy there, whether we want there to be one or not. And it's psychiatrists, which are medical doctors. And then there's a psychologist. Psychologists go to get a graduate degree. You got to have a PhD or a PsyD to be called a clinical psychologist. And they are trained usually from research, more research based. They've got to do research. They have to do studies. They're going to be more clinical in their approach, more typologies. And again, I'm speaking broadly and generally. Beneath that, depending on which state you are in, it might be counselor. It might be a marriage and family therapist. It might be a social worker,

clinical, licensed clinical social worker. And there's social workers that are licensed to sit with people. They can do diagnosis. They can refer you out to a psychiatrist. And then there's social workers that are to help you navigate complex systems like a medical system or the legal system or whatever. So I'm talking about licensed clinical social workers. At the end of the day, the research tells me that the most important thing is not the modality, not the degree of a licensed mental health professional. It's the rapport between the patient, the client, and the mental health professional. How you feel interacting with this person. Now, I was thinking about this when I was writing these notes out for this.

Two of the most amazing therapists that I refer to a lot, whose wisdom guides a lot of what I do, are Esther Perel and Terry Real, Terrence Real. Neither of them have PhDs. Neither of them are Dr. Perel or Dr. Real. And they're amazing. My therapist, the person I go to, I know they don't have a PhD. I know they're not a doctor

so-and-so, and I don't know what their clinical licensure is in. I actually don't know. I know they're one of the most respected and extraordinary counselors in the United States, and I was really fortunate that she would take me on. But I don't even know what her clinical licensure is. That's how little I care about that kind of crap. Also, Gabor Mate, who you hear me talk about a lot, he's a medical doctor, not a psychiatrist, but a medical doctor. So all that to say is, and I have two PhDs and I'm seeing somebody who's not a PhD. All that, I want you to say, I don't care. It's about when you meet with this person, do you click? And here's how I know if I click, can I, or will I tell this person the truth? Most of us have an innate sense that this person in front of

us is not safe or they are safe. Doesn't mean it's not going to be uncomfortable. It's not going to be weird, but can I tell them the truth? Will I tell them the truth? If you sit down in front of somebody and your guard immediately goes up, you're wasting your time, you're wasting their time, you're wasting your money. Because if you're not going to tell the truth and they can't help you, it's like going to the doctor and not telling them that your foot is really, really hurting and instead tell them you got a headache. It's not going to help. They're never going to get you the x-rays that you need to get your your care. Okay So the most important thing is the relationship with your therapist. Can you tell the truth?

If you need meds if you think you need meds you can start anywhere with any of these folks and they will let you know We've tried some things for a few weeks I think it's best to refer you out to your doctor or to a psychiatrist And they will have lists of people they can refer you out to. Okay. So, and one more quick side note here, life coaches. Here's my thought on life coaches. I actually have one of those too. And I know that that's a lot. I've got a life coach and having a therapist. I don't go to my life coach, the person I sit with. His name is Justin McRoberts.

He's amazing. I don't go to him with childhood traumas. I don't go to him with really deep structural marriage issues when my wife and I are struggling. I don't go to him with parenting challenges. I go to him when I have a specific problem that I need to solve that I'm struggling with, like my calendar, like feeling sensitive all the time

when people give me feedback at work, like when I've got four or five people at work all telling me the same thing, but I think I'm right. He provides a mirror for me and is able to say things more directly often than a counselor will. It's what a coach is.

Coaches give you advice, not always, but more often than a counselor will. It's what a coach is. Coaches give you advice, not always, but more so than a therapist will. I am technically not licensed. I intentionally did not get licensed in the state of Tennessee because I didn't want to spend my whole career fighting grenades that people are throwing for licensure. So, uh, life coaches can get certified in their particular thing, but not all of them have licenses and stuff. It's great. I take specific and issues like boundaries, work challenges, et cetera, for life coaching. So if you're working through like a particular issue, call life coach, man, it's easier to get in. Sometimes, um, they can be less expensive sometimes depending on who you call. Sometimes they can be extraordinarily

expensive. Um, but I don't have a problem at all. In fact, I employ one. And if you want to check out Justin McRoberts, he's the guy that I work with and he's amazing. He's out of California and we do it virtually and it's awesome. All right. So how to find the right therapist. All right. Number one, I hate that I have to start here, but this is the world we're in right now. I hate that I have to start here. Figure out your finances. Usually it's going to be between 75 bucks and 250 bucks an hour. Sometimes a little bit less if they're on a sliding scale, sometimes more. Sliding scale simply means you're a teacher, you make $42,000 a year, and they are going to slide their rates down and you will pay less than somebody who

makes $100,000 a year might have to pay full freight. Great. I'm 100% on board with sliding scale stuff. Psychiatrists can be considerably more expensive, $400, $500 an hour. Sometimes testing is thousands of dollars. It just depends on what you need. If you've got cash pay, many, many, many, many therapists have moved to cash pay, usually because their books are full. They don't have to deal with insurance. They can just say, hey, I cost 150 bucks an hour. People write them a check and they'll move on. If you can afford to do that, great. That's where I would start. One side note, you can pay with cash and you can say like I do with my counselors,

I do not want any diagnosis in any records. So they don't. And I'm paying with cash. If you have insurance, if you are going through your insurance, often insurance will require a diagnosis to reimburse the therapist. So they have to put something down.

So if you got cash pay, start there. If you need to run it through your insurance, great. My wife has done that. No big deal at all. No big deal at all. Run it through insurance and you can often find a list of practitioners in your area. Okay. Now finding practitioners is hard. There is a shortage nationwide. It just is. That's not an excuse to give up if you need to talk to somebody. Okay, it's not an excuse You need to know how much things will cost before you go And by the way, no therapist should be upselling you things or giving you packages on things or that should never happen Okay, that should never ever happen and a therapist job

Should be to work themselves out of a job with you. Their job is not to counsel you for eternity Their job is to help you in the healing process to walk alongside you. Okay If you are struggling to find somebody A group and I know they sponsor the show. So There you go, but betterHelp has been extraordinary to folks who were just, who were peripheral to the Nashville shooting. That's who I referred them to, got them a code for BetterHelp. Okay. So I have full trust there. I refer people that I care about and love to BetterHelp, no problem at all. And their promise is they will see you within 24, 48 hours.

Okay. Dealing with deep trauma, online therapy, or talking on the phone therapy might not be the best long-term, but man, it's a great place to get you going, okay? So number two, after you've dealt with the finances, what you can afford, how you can work that thing, have an idea as to what you want to talk about. Have some sort of direction, okay?

I'm ready to stop being so angry I want to be a more present mom. I want to be a better dad than my dad I don't even know where to start. I just keep crying all the time Everyone around me is telling me that i'm depressed. I keep asking me if i'm depressed. I don't think I am But it's time for me to talk to somebody get a different a third party who's neutral on this deal. Okay More than likely, you're going to be wrong in what you think is going on. I can't tell you the number of times I've gone in and been like, hey, I need to talk about X. And within an hour, we are not talking about X. We are talking

about Y. X is simply a symptom of Y and A, B, and C, and D, and E, and F, and G, right? But have some sort of direction. If you plop down on the couch and you and d and e and f and g right But have some sort of direction If you plop down on the couch and you look at the therapist and say fix me. It's not going to work good therapists can work with that because they're good, but Man, it really helps to sit down and say i'm ready to stop hurting I am in the last stages of my life and I want to have as much joy as possible I just lost somebody that that means it that was my heartbeat and I can't breathe. Can you help me with the grief? So have some sort of direction there, okay?

And I want to reiterate this. You got to tell the truth. You got to tell the truth. They teach us in counseling 101 classes, your clients will lie to you. Your clients will lie to you. Don't lie. If you're going to go and you're going to pay the money, tell the truth. I slept with this many people. I hooked up with my boss's secretary and it's going to blow my marriage up. I hit my kid. Go tell the truth. Okay. All right. Number three, where should you look? Okay. Number one, check the internet in your local area. That's the easiest way. Okay. And there are waiting lists all over the country. Get on them. Get on the waiting list. Just like your barber who books four months out or three months or whatever, get on the waiting list. You never know when you're

going to get a call. Okay. So number one, get on a waiting list. If four or five or six people are like, dude, you got to go see Jenna. You got to go see Jenna. You got to go see Jenna. And you call Jenna and says, Hey, I'm not taking any clients now, but I got a waiting list. Get on it. Go ahead and get on it. Why not? Right? Why not? But don't stop there. Um, after you've checked your local, uh, internet, uh, if you checked the local, the internet in your local area, ask friends, families, or coworkers, listen, you are worth being well. So unless you're in abusive situation or somebody that's going to take advantage of you for finding out that you're going to a counselor, let folks know.

I see somebody and I got a coach. My wife sees somebody. We will see somebody together. It's fine. It's great. It's healthy. It's good. Most of the people I know who do hard things and have had

hard things in their past need to go do the work. They need to do the work. Okay. Let people know more often than not, somebody will be like, Hey, you should go see my person. They're great. Okay. Also, if you live in a community with a, with a local university, Call and find out. In West Texas, where I just was, the local university, there was a counseling program, an addiction counseling program, a marriage and family therapy program, a psychology program.

The medical school has a counseling program. All of them have things called clinics. The clinics are where graduate students see clients for free or for very, very reduced rates. And before you go, I'm not seeing no student. I was a student. I was a student.

That's where I saw clients. And so my colleagues were great. It's a great place to go. And if you go see a graduate student, you're getting the benefit of not only the graduate student, but of often one or two professors. So people with extensive experience. And so sometimes you get a benefit of two or three therapists for the price of a quarter of one, right? It can be an amazing resource.

So if you live in a local community, check out the clinics of the mental health programs at the local university. It's a great way to get in and see somebody. And you can also provide feedback. It's just awesome. There's also local family counseling services that are designed for folks who have no money or very, very little money. It's where I did one of my internships, my practicums, and I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. It was a great place to meet folks all over the spectrum who are struggling with things and also people who had plenty of

money that I got to help. So check out local family counseling services or counseling resources in your area as well. And then also there's church services. I do have a bias. I do have a bias. And so it's just, this is just me. There are good, well-meaning ministers that are not trained that will often talk to folks. And unfortunately, I've had a career of people coming to me and being like, hey, man, I went and saw my pastor and they said X and Y and Z. And I just go, oh my gosh, I cannot believe they said that. So I do have a bias against sprinting out that way. I implore you, if you're a pastor or a minister, you have to know when you're over your head. You have to not look at people and say well if you just prayed harder Or jesus tells you don't be anxious. So, uh that's not

Helpful and in fact that hurts people don't be that pastor. Don't be that minister There's tons of pastoral counselor training that you can go get that will make you incredibly effective and I hope that everyone who has the um the courage To sit with somebody who's hurting will go through the proper training there. Okay?

So that's basically, oh, here's the other one. Call BetterHelp, man. Call online service. They will get you in within 24, 48 hours if you're just stuck. Again, it's not often, you don't have to do this forever and ever and ever. Amen. But man, it can be a great resource when you finally get the courage up to say, okay, I'm going to do this forever and ever and ever amen, but man it can be a great resource When you finally get the courage up to say, okay, i'm going i'm going last thing. I want to pass along here

go Uh three times three to four times before you decide to switch a therapist, okay The first time should be a nervous vomit session You get it all out. This happened and this happened and this happened. And there's a thing that you're like, I don't want to say it, I don't want to say it. And you say it or you don't say it.

That's the first session. The second one is awkward. It's a second date. You're going back. You feel a little bit better because you finally spoke out loud some of this crap that you've been carrying around. You finally said, my husband sucks.

I don't know what to do. I'm sick of my kids not liking me That's just that's that's the that's the That's the forward to the book. You haven't started the book yet the work comes. So what are we going to do now? Okay, second session is usually context. Tell me how you grew up. Tell me about your past Tell me how long you've been married. How did you meet? Why? All that kind of digging into stuff. It's uncomfortable. It doesn't feel like you're getting anywhere. You're building relationship with the counselor. You're practicing saying your needs out loud. You're practicing telling the truth out loud.

Session three is when things get hard, usually. That's when you start getting more homework assignments. You may get like a timeline assignment or something like that. Like put in the timeline here. Or I want you to write down your list. You might get some of that stuff in the first couple of sessions. Session three, session four is when you start doing the work. We're going to learn some breathing exercises because we got to talk about some hard stuff.

We are going to practice going to the gym three times. Whatever the thing might be that you and your therapist are working through. Go three or four times before you bail. And if you've never been before, expect it to be uncomfortable. Having surgery to get your knees fixed is uncomfortable. Getting shots when you're sick is uncomfortable.

Healing is often uncomfortable. And when it comes to feelings and emotions, you just got to power through. It's not going to be comfortable. And that's the point. We do hard work and counseling so that we can breathe at home, so that we can have peace in our souls,

peace in our living rooms, peace in our bedrooms, peace. It's hard. It's hard work Talking about somebody hurting you and you're still married to him Talking about how you let your kids down. It's hard Talking about how your parents let you let you down and you still got to see him every christmas or you think you do it's hard It's hard how your body failed you and you got sick How you're you feel like your wife failed you because she got cancer like all those things. It's hard

Expect it to be challenging. Okay, expect it to not quote-unquote feel good all the time In the new modern era expect your counselor to challenge you If you're a counselor i've left counselors and psychologists before because they weren't challenging me. They just kept saying, how does that make you feel? My counselor now, she challenges me, pushes buttons. And I need that. I love that. And that's a new wave of therapy. And I'm so grateful that it's made its way into counseling rooms all across the country. You don't want an abusive person telling you, you can't believe that. And that's bullcrap. But you do need somebody pushing on you and challenging you appropriately, okay?

So that's how to find a therapist. How to find a therapist. Listen, if you need somebody, call. I don't care how tough you are. I don't care what your job is. I don't care if you've been before and you got burned. Call. You are worth being well.

It fills your family. I love you guys. We'll worth being well. It fills your family. I love you guys. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings

and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we're back. Hey, as we wrap up today's show, we're going to do something a little bit different. No song lyrics. We will have some song lyrics

and they'll probably have horse noises in them. So everybody just take a chill. But in light of that last segment, talking about how to find a therapist, we reached out to some folks who have used BetterHelp. BetterHelp sponsors the heck out of this show. They've been a great partner.

And I just continue to hear great things about folks who reach out and talk to them. But I wanted to talk to some of you who've actually used Better Help, okay? Who've actually reached out and used them. I don't want to be recommending a product that people are coming out and be like, this is awful. And so we put a lot of time and effort making sure that these folks are good. So the people that you're going to hear from are not paid. We didn't pay them a dime. Okay. And not only are they not making anything, they're being pretty vulnerable. They're getting in front of at least 20 or 30 people. That's all that listened to this podcast. Only a few people, but they're talking about their experiences. So I want you to check them out and let them just plant a seed of courage in the middle of your chest. If it's time to call somebody, BetterHelp's a great place to start.

All right, here we go. Roll tape then. Roll tape. The past two years has been a lot for everyone across the globe. And it's been a lot for me personally. So I decided to use BetterHelp for therapy because I was entering a new season of my life. I have been on BetterHelp for about two weeks now. I've experienced job loss, moving across the country

when I was nine months pregnant, becoming a first time parent to my beautiful daughter, learning how to make new friends in the midst of the isolation of the pandemic, and losing my cousin due to mental illness. New relationship, we were talking about our future together, new promotion at work, a bunch of new stress in my life, both good and bad, that I was working through

and trying to make sure that I'm using every tool in the toolbox that I possibly could. It was a lot. And so I decided to take up Dr. John Deloney's recommendation to use BetterHelp using his promo code. And I was matched with counselors who were able to talk me through my feelings and what had recently happened.

My therapist and I, we communicate many different ways. We have a chat session that we can go back and forth. If I have a story that is going to be a little too long for texting, I can record myself and send it to her as an audio file. And we also have live sessions. It was a great experience. My therapist that I was matched with, she helped me identify how different traumas and experiences in my life were affecting

the way I react to things now. She helped me with strategies on how to approach situations at work better, how not to take work home with me, how to approach conversations with my partner better. I've had a really great experience with her. We have communicated on all these different topics, such as parenthood, marriage, even just some conversations regarding boundaries with my family that I grew up with. We talked about my marriage, my mental health, setting healthier boundaries, how I can make new friends, what I should say yes and no to.

It was a great experience. You know, as somebody who's dealt with anxiety his entire life, it was by far the best counseling experience I've ever had. I can't recommend it enough. And especially as you enter different seasons of your life, I think it's a great opportunity to make sure you're using all the tools you possibly can.

I highly encourage everyone to check it out. I think it's been very enriching for myself and I think it could be for you all too. I would recommend it to all of my family and friends to give it a try and I'd highly recommend it to you.