The Dr. John Delony Show - The Interview You’ve Been Asking for… Dr. Sheila Delony

Episode Date: November 10, 2023

On today’s show, we celebrate episode 500 with an exclusive conversation with John’s wife, Dr. Sheila Delony. Lyrics of the Day: "The Chair" - George Strait Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Building a Non-Anxious Life Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Your skincare routine is something to behold. You know, the weekly face mask and the rollie. I don't even know what all of our tools in our bathroom do. I just know that they're yours. One of my first girlfriends who told me I would be handsome if I didn't have such bad skin and just locked into my soul. Woo! What's up?

This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Show about your mental and emotional health and your marriage and your kids. All of it. Real people going through real stuff All over the world And we all meet here And we sit together And we sit with one another And we try to figure out what to do next If you want to be on the show

Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 Or go to johndeloney.com Slash ask ASK And this is a huge show We did it guys gondoloni.com slash ask ASK. And this is a huge show. We did it, guys. This is our 500th episode. 500.

After the first one, I thought there would be five. I mean, seriously, I'm curious. Did you, when we were down in the dungeon and we did that first one that was pretty rough. It was incredible.

On all parts. I mean, for all of us. I think we had to reshoot that one, didn't we? Yeah, we did. Yeah, it wasn't great. I wasn't going to say that, but we did that first one that was pretty rough it was incredible on all parts i mean for all of us i think we had to reshoot that one didn't we yeah we did yeah it wasn't great i wasn't gonna say that but we did yeah we had to redo it um did we did you ever think we'd make it to 500 that's pretty incredible i didn't even i couldn't wrap my head around that no because every time i left i was in a bad mood i thought james was gonna kill us i didn't you didn't even know what day it was i just felt like like every day. No, I did not. And I didn't realize how fast it would come either. Like it just happened overnight. And I didn't know. I mean, when you're like, like, Hey, I'm starting to show with my name on it. You hope people listen to it. I had no idea it would be as big as it has gotten. So the whole

thing is just like a glitch in the matrix. It's pretty amazing. But our 500th episode, and we racked our brain for what can we do that was special for the 500th episode. And we talked about getting some famous people in here, and we talked about doing some silly things. And then I had one request. I asked one person. And finally, she said Dr. Deloney, my wife, Sheila Deloney. We talk about, and this is, I mean, we're kind of out there, but we talk about living with somebody with ADHD. Not me. Just kidding. What's it like living and loving somebody who can be hard to live with and love? And somebody who's late to everything. And somebody who leaves piles of themselves all over the place. And somebody who leaves piles all over the place.

And somebody who, I don't know, isn't perfect. Excuse me, Mr. Perfect. Anyway, we also talk about identity and her journey from being a really respected elementary school teacher to a nationally known researcher, Dr. Deloney, to a husband who was really struggling with some mental health challenges, to Hey Miss, to a stay-at-home mom, to now she's a celebrated author and a coach. She coaches women. But that's been a really hard transition because the world has told her she's failing every step of the way. And she talks really openly about that journey and what the impact with our kids, the impact on our marriage. And then she goes on to tell some things that I wish she had kept quiet.

And she tells things about me that probably shouldn't have been told in public. And here we are. There was one moment when she said something and I caught out of the corner of my eye, Kelly just like put both hands in the air just to cheer. And I was like, oh, I wish she hadn't have said that. And so it's all here on the internets forever. So please buckle up and sit tight and listen into my conversation

with my extraordinary, brilliant, and beautiful wife, the heartbeat behind all of the stuff that I do, the original, great Dr. Sheila Deloney. Check it out. Here we are. Here we are. Thank you for being on the show. You're welcome.

Thanks for having a show. Let's start that way. How many times have you listened to this show? I think three. You don't have to actually answer. You have really? Yeah, I think I've told you each time. I thought you just did it once and that's when I was on somebody else's show.

Because you want to see if we can still be married. No, I've listened to three of yours. Really? Yeah, the AMAs because I want to know what you're saying. Oh, about you. Yeah. If you're talking about other people, I don't listen. You might be talking about me then.

I think I talk about you a lot probably. And that's the other reason I don't listen. What I don't know, I don't have to be mad about. So one of the questions we get almost on a daily or weekly basis is something that at the beginning I thought you might be sending in over and over and over again because it's our house. And so, but I don't think it is. I think it's something that is just pervasive. So, how have you managed, how do you manage to live with and be married and most of the time love? All the time love, most of the time like. Somebody with ADHD, somebody who struggles with anxiety or OCD.

Some of these big dun-dun-dun dragon labels. How have you learned to create a life with it with that within that by the way we have not prepped this i am not an expert on any of those things you're an expert on loving me listen i am an expert on you so you're the only person that i've been married to so so let's say how have you how have you yeah stayed in love with me i I'm going to keep it to what's it like to live with you and love you with the tendencies you may have that may be generalizable, but I don't know. I think the biggest one is a change in expectations. So I may think that tidiness is a priority among all adults, and that turns out not to be true. So where I would prefer people are coming over, let's tidy up the house.

I prefer like people are coming over, let's be on the front porch. Or be mowing the front yard. Yes. Because if they're coming at 6, I can start mowing at 5.30. Duh. Plenty of time. So shifting expectations. I'm not going to have a tidy house.

And that is just the life that I chose. But I never have a boring house either. So I in my head remember it approximately 10 years ago-ish that there was like a distinct change. And then probably five years ago when we were leaving Texas and moving here and things were just a mess, there was like yet another change. And I felt the air leave the house in a good way. Like there was the pressure that I lived. That was me giving up. Is that – yeah, was that like i quit um but there was like a distinct shift

and in an odd way and you can tell me if i'm wrong i felt like without that constant i'm not doing this right i then i have felt space to then start to slowly, quietly inch my way towards being a little more tidy sometimes. Yeah, yeah. That's true. And some of it is letting go of expectations. Other people, like when you name those markers five years ago, ten years ago, that's also when, as an adult, I've quit being so consumed with what other people think of me or think of us. And so some of the buildup was what are other people going to think if John's still in the shower when they get to our house? Or what are our parents going to think if they show up and the house is a wreck or the front yard has weird things piled and stacked here and there?

And just coming to a place where, I don't know, this is how we live. We live in chaos and welcome. Welcome to the world. Yeah. Rather than putting out some sort of, trying to pretend that we live a tidy life when we don't. That sounds like an uncomfortable response that I think is pretty powerful so tell

me if I'm wrong here what I'm hearing you say is when you I'm gonna say do the work but that doesn't necessarily mean that but when you started doing the work on you and we stopped butting heads on it's gotta look like this like but I've got so much going on here right and then it was almost like when yeah when you went and you can call giving up i would say making peace with the other side of it is um i don't know i just felt there was such more space in the house for joy and peace and laughter which then for me calms everything down and then it's like like, oh, I see that pile. I'm not going to get to it, but I see it now. I've never seen that pile before because I was too busy trying to like walk on a rope that I

didn't understand. Yeah. And I think it also, when you think of those markers five years ago, 10 years ago, five years ago, when we moved here, I stopped working in schools. Ten years ago, I stopped working full-time. If we were both still leaving the house, one of us on time and getting home in the evening and then coming in and like, dinner's got to be ready and then we got to start the next day and we need the decks cleared to start a whole new day. If we were both doing that, I don't know that I could have come to that place of whatever you called it, coming to peace with it.

The story I've told myself over time is, especially in the last couple of years as it's become incredibly important for me, something I'm trying to work on hard, is being on time. And it was when i it was when i started working here and i wasn't the leader of an organization and when you're a leader of an organization you kind of live in a bubble because everybody just morphed to what your weirdness here there was like some really poignant like you're being very disrespectful of all of the people in this room all right and you actually here, there's a whole team of people.

And if I roll in six minutes late, it's like, and I'm thinking, I'll get the show done. The show's going to be fine. I've already checked the calls. I know it's coming. I'll be all right. But there's still five or 10 or 15 people sitting there waiting. And how have you navigated just that honest feeling,

like sitting in the car waiting for us to go to church or like we're gonna leave at 5 30 for our date because we're nerds and it's 6 15 i'm getting out of the shower like i talk through that like feeling of disrespect that's another one there there's two parts to it. And really, though, it overlaps with what I was saying before. Some of it is expectation. I just don't expect to be on time for things. I think our church community does not expect us to be on time.

Our kids don't expect you to be on time. I know. And we try to make adjustments like telling you it's really 7.15 is when we need to leave when three of the four of us know it's really 7.30, but this gives us a better shot at leaving on time. So some of it's giving up like just like, oh, we're just not going to be. And then some of it is letting go of if somebody wants to give us a dirty look when we walk in late to church, well, okay. And just not being as concerned about that. And then the other thing, again, because I'm not working full time, I work from home, I work for myself. So you're not causing me to be late for something. So it's less, the stakes are lower. So I can give you more room to be late

and it doesn't, I don't know. So when I talk to people out on the road, they say, it must be so fun. Like just this picture of like y'all's house sounds so fun. I know there's another side of fun, which is exhausting. Exhausting. So how do you navigate that? Because I know that I, someone who like is working hard, but man, time is hard for me. I can really, I've called a few experts, like, because I'm at the end of my rope on like clutter.

Like, and we're not hoarders, but I got someone just to stop. We're not. We're not. But I just got to clutter. And, but I'm at this weird place, like I'm out of tricks, right? The tricks that I use to like cut weight, the tricks I use to exercise, the tricks I use for nutrition don't work for that for some reason. So there's the other side of that like, oh my gosh, it must be so fun.

And those are hilarious. And our daughter's a hurricane. She's hilarious. And our son is so witty and funny. And they're always cracking jokes. And there's the other side of that, which is just exhausting. How do you navigate that? I take naps and I go to bed early.

What else do I have? I check out. Yeah, again, it's that same bucket of just letting go. You didn't trick me. You weren't on time while we were dating and had all your stuff together then. So I knew what I was getting. You know, I used to say, it's a good thing you're cute. That's the same thing I said about our kids.

As I'm getting older, I can't lean on that anymore. You better figure something out. I know. What about this? Folks who struggle mightily with anxiety and ADHD and even into depression. lean on that anymore you better figure something out i know um what about this uh folks who struggle mightily with anxiety and adhd um and even into depression often have really negative self-image because it's like i know you know i mean i know that i'm not on time i know that and i worked really hard to get my breakfast done I worked really hard to be present with the kids.

In my head, I'm like, you're going to spend some time with your wife. You're going to make sure you eat a healthy breakfast. You're going to do all these things. And then it's like, the freaking clock won't stop spinning. And so, and that's just one thing. There's moments of lucidity where I see this house is a disaster and 97.8% of it is me. And the rest of it is a middle school boy. Right.

It's embarrassing. It's, it's shameful. How do you navigate loving somebody who like doesn't always share that same love for themselves? I don't know. I don't know that I'm doing it well. Um, I guess part of it is loving you. And so beyond that, I don't know what to do. But I can love you without loving your behaviors and be in relationship with you. I think maybe this is another switch that has happened is to stop trying to be in relationship with your behaviors and your

mess and what that is and just kind of jump over that and be in relationship with you, the person who means well and is always kind and has a million other things that I love. And if I stacked those up, because I love lists, if I stack those up on lists, that way outweighs the fact that you leave your stuff everywhere. Everywhere. It's worth the trade, I guess. If this is the trade to make like well you get this great guy but he's a mess well yeah I'm gonna I'll deal with the mess I would say the greatest gift you bring

me is like a constant stop pulling on your shirt you don't look unattractive and stop you can leave that stuff there I'd rather you come to bed or like there's some moments that i've felt especially over the last four or five years where it's been very much a focus on i'm like you just mentioned like you're good with me and for some weird reason that has slowly begun to let the shame smoke out and almost like a release valve then i can't describe it other than people with adhd and ocd and anxiety are so frustrating to be in relationship with because it's so like why do you have to be like that and it's like i don't know right it's like we're talking with our kids the other day like

one of our children it was like does that feel good and they were like no it doesn't feel even good and but in a strange way you leaning into that instead of like setting a marker over here and like you will meet this expectation and for me and my body response to that is like that's my dad whose expectation i'm still trying to meet that's my teacher who that one time or the football coach i'm still instead of that it's like moving all the way up here and be like, I will love you despite the piles. And for some reason, I start to see them and be like, I'm going to get that taken care of. I do know in our kitchen area, I dropped that guitar and all that stuff right there in that huge pile. I know that.

I know it's there, but I saw it. And even when I was leaving this morning, I had to make a choice between the pile and timeliness. And I chose being on time, but I did see it, which is huge. Did you choose being on time? Cause you knew I was going to get here first. No, um, I chose being on time because I had an announcement to make in front of a

thousand people. So I had to be there on that stage when the time came, but, but it's, it's, there's been times I've sent a text message, like move me to third because I'm coming in hot four minutes late or whatever.

Um, but some of that's just being, I know it's self-reinforcing. Over the last six, no, probably over the last year, as I've tried to really work hard, especially at work on getting on time, there's more peace. I feel better, right? Being here early and I can prepare and people aren't stressed

and people aren't frustrated and trying to bite their tongue around me. Or like Kelly, who's not biting her tongue and just letting it fly. Right. Thanks, Kelly. There's just a peace. Right. And I'm slowly leaning into that, which I like. Yeah.

So what I hear you saying is me not shaming you helps you feel less shame. But I don't even, but I don't think, I don't, there's been some of that, and we've both lobbed that grenade at each other over the course of 21 years, but I think it's less of that. I think it's more, there was just a, like, there was a pair of glasses you wore that was, this is the way this is supposed to be. And I kept saying, but it doesn't have to be.

We could just stay up till midnight and go to this punk rock show that doesn't start till 1 a.m. And you're like, I know, but for the next six days, it will take us that long to get back. And I'm like, I know, but it'd be so fun right now. All of this is problems for future John and Sheila, but right now. And so there's just that talk. And we've laughed about it over 20 years.

I was like, thank God that I have you because I literally don't know where I would be. And the other side of it is, like, you never would have been to a punk rock show. That is true. I do want to point out two things. I'll answer. But first, because I'm here, part of the issue with your timeliness is that you just mentioned we're going to be out

till midnight for a punk rock show that starts at 1 a.m. And there's where the problem starts. In response. Those are the same time, basically. Anything after 11 and before 3 a.m., that's about the same time. In response, though, some of it has also been, I quit picking up after you. So there was the, it has to be this way. So I'm just going to do it all myself. Since you don't care about having a tidy house and I do, I'm just going to clean up all your mess for you. God, I felt that anger.

And so then there was that resentment. Resentment, yeah. Yeah, super rage cleaning. Now I can be bumping in from work like, hey, and it would just be. Because you hadn't noticed the piles to begin with. So you also didn't notice the absence of piles. It was just like, hey, guys, what you been doing all day? And so that was definitely a source of built up resentment.

Same with like, John, you're supposed to be at work in 30 minutes and you're still in my gym shorts haven't haven't showered or anything so letting go of that and like

you want to have piles or even if you don't want them you made piles okay we're just gonna live in a pile house

and I'm gonna carve out a little corner that I'm gonna keep tidy and no one else is allowed in my corner. Hey, good folks. Let's talk about hallow. All right. I say this all the time. It's important to get away for times of prayer and meditation by yourself with no one else around. But one thing you might not think about though, is maintaining a sense of community when you pray or meditate.

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You can choose your guide, your background music. You can create your own personal prayer plan and more. I've made it a personal point to begin my day every single day with the Hallow Meditation on the scripture of the day. It's a discipline and it's a practice, and here's what I'm learning. As with anything of importance and meaning, prayer takes intentionality, practice, and showing up

even when I don't feel like it, and even I don't want to. This is discipline. Sometimes you do this by yourself, and sometimes you do this with a group, and Hallow helps you with both. Download the number one prayer app on planet earth, Halo, right now. And listen, viewers and listeners of this show get three free months when you go to halo.com slash Deloney. It's amazing. Three free months of the app when you go to halo.com slash Deloney. Go right now and change your life. So maybe the second question, most common question I get is about role identity, especially for women. And so when I met you, you were way smarter than me. Yep. Not indicative of that one class that we had where I got an A and you got a B

after the professor tried to fight me, but it's cool. And so then the next, that was incredible. That was one of my favorite moments of my life. I know. 25 years ago. Hey, listen, I can't let it go. That and high school football games, I can't let them go. Then you went and got a master's degree and you're the only person at the time that I knew, probably to this day still, that got a master's degree. And you're the only person at the time that I knew, probably to this day still, that got a master's degree because you want to be a better teacher. You were an elementary school teacher.

I want to do this better. And so we lived right down the street from this major research university. And then you went and got a PhD, and it was never in your mind, I want to go be a research professor and do all this stuff. It was like, I want to continue to be much better at this. And I never heard you say, I want to be a principal or anything like i just want to i want to learn so much so i can love these kids and then i got a job in another city and you applied to all these it was a small texas town so you applied to all these places and all these school districts and they

wouldn't hire you because not even an interview yeah because it was it was she ain't from around here and it was this like wait what look at the credential like yeah she's not she's not one of us but the two job offers you got were the two major universities in that city and so you launched into this career where you became like an absolute gangster at research professor and i would still be piddling around with my master's degree if you hadn't been heading to blaze that trail ahead of me because I didn't even know what some of the words meant and I didn't know where they posted the assignment board I didn't know any of that stuff almost overnight you become Dr. Deloney and like the most revered and feared education

professor in that building like your colleagues would tell you that same thing. You start writing like research articles. You're like presenting across the country. Like all of a sudden, this thing that people work their whole career for, you waltzed right in and were pretty incredible. And you had an awesome team that supported you. I would say I waltzed right in, but go ahead. I'm saying like it wasn't the intention, right?

Like it wasn't like from day one. That wasn't the i'm gonna go do this it was like all right here's this incredible opportunity and within four or five years i mean you were it was unbelievable right um the universe like senior leadership was pulling you into the meetings and putting you on committees and and your colleagues respected you nationally you were respected and then you're married to a guy that went crazy and yeah a little bit and so like this is one of my big like shame pillars that still haunts me a little bit so you have this incredible really life right we got hank he's a little bitty kid and the whole community loves him the university community all the students all of our students love him um he's like all of your colleagues especially but all of our students love him. He's like all of your colleagues, especially, but all of our

colleagues love him. And he's just kind of waltzes around on a college campus, just surrounded by love. And his school was like, I walked him to school and then would walk to campus. And so we just had this perfect little life, except that your husband went mad, right? Stone mad. Which means the life wasn't perfect. It wasn't perfect. Right, right, all right um and so we left we took a seventy thousand dollar household income pay cut and we moved to another city three hours away where i was got a new job at a university that still on on its face was a fancy pants job but it was worth a much smaller group of students and it was going to give me some space to like get well figure out what in the world's going on and in that transition you made the choice to not pursue

like working at a university anymore but like hey I'm gonna stay at home and I'm gonna have kids and we're gonna have multiple kids and I'm going to work part-time at a local school and I remember watching with awe as you navigated the toggle of Dr. Deloney, Dr. Deloney, Dr. Deloney to, hey, miss, like right there, right? Dr. Deloney from graduate students and, you know, president of university to, hey, miss, by a kindergartner who was super disrespectful and like a classroom teacher who was like oh my gosh she's just an aide right and i watched like uh like you know as i'm in my own chaos trying to get well and i'm watching you ping pong this thing back and forth and then we you know and i've talked a little bit about like you know we had several miscarriages in a row and navigating grief on top of hey miss on top of what are we going to be and it just felt like you wore a lot when

it came to identity and then we pack up and move and i get we get our dream opportunity in nashville and at a university and then now as hank says i'm a youtuber and i do a whole other job but it's afforded us a different kind of life. And so in this last season, you've become a best-selling author and you went and got your master gardener license and you drive 17 hours a day getting kids all over the creation because we live out in the woods. How do you navigate?

How have you navigated? If I look back over the last 10 years, that's a lot. It's a lot, not just professionally, it's a lot of identity shifting. How do you navigate that? That's a lot. It's a lot, not just professionally. It's a lot of identity shifting. How do you navigate that? That was a lot of question. I'll take it in stages, I guess.

So the shift from university to public school, part-time, hourly worker, that was a lot of ego shift. Like you said, I had status, I had autonomy, and then I went to sign your timesheet and not invited to any meetings of any significance, even though I may have been the most qualified person in the building. Maybe not, but it felt like it at times. And so that was hard. At the same time, it's what I wanted. The thing that didn't happen is I kind of took this leap from identity as a professor to identity as more leaning into the stay-at-home mom thing. But then our oldest started school and there was no other baby to hold. And so there was a gap between the identity

that I left and the identity I wanted to embody. And there was a gap. And so that was the hardest season because I had let go of one and hadn't grabbed on to the other. One vine, there's no vine coming. Yeah, there's nothing coming. Not that having only one child makes you less of a mom or less whatever, but he started school. And so those, like the actual hours of the day and it was hard too in terms of ego i would go to dinners with you where before we kind of walked into a room like a work event we kind of walked in as as a power couple which you know when i was 30 that there was mutual respect yeah it was the doctors deloney right yes and we both had she's the stable one he's the neurotic one but they're both yeah yeah we both had... She's the stable one. He's the neurotic one, but they're both... Yeah, we both had research agendas and our Vitas looked good and whatever.

And so then to go, if I went with you to a work event, it was, oh, there's John's wife. And I was like, what? Oh, yeah. Or, you know, inevitably the person sitting next to you at the chicken and rice dinner would say, what do you do? And it's – Like I used to be a – yeah. Yeah, it stung like I used to be, but I'm not quite. It was just a –

Ugh. Yeah. So that was a tough one. Here, I had already reestablished a healthier, I think, or maybe not healthier, but just a second half of life kind of identity that wasn't so wrapped up in what am I going to tell people at a dinner or how do people see me when we walk into a room. But just I have figured out who I am, who I want to be, and that identity transfers. Wherever you want to go, however you're making your money, I felt more solid in my identity. Mechanistically, how did you unhook that? Because most people go to the grave in that gap. I talk often about 60-year-old guys still telling high school football stories because that's the last time they had an identity bigger than themselves, right? Or the folks who are veterans that I've worked with, it's like 25 years ago was your last deployment and that's still the story of who you are, right? How did you make that switch? Because that buries most people. Yeah. Part of it's therapy, for sure. And then part of it, in that gap,

my grandma was, her health was declining. She was in the last years of her life, dementia was kind of taking over. And so I felt as I was grieving my own pregnancy losses, I was also grieving the loss of my grandma, who is just such an important figure in my life. And so realizing like, oh, any kids I have at this point aren't going to know her and she's not going to know them. And there was the grief in the loss of that. So in that time, actually right around the time when Josephine was born, I started writing my grandma's stories because I wanted our kids, I wanted my cousin's kids. I wanted people to know her stories and her mom's stories. And these weren't tidy lives they lived. They were pioneers and they lived hard lives, but they did it with so much joy and optimism and love and care.

And so I started writing down those stories and I realized, oh, this is giving me so much life back. Because when you have small children and a husband who may have ADHD, everything you do in a day gets undone. Like you change diapers, you cook meals, you do laundry, pick up the house. And the next day, there's a dirty diaper and a pile of laundry and dirty dishes in the sink and someone needs a snack. And so it just felt like, you know, I know the stuff about like pouring into your kids and all that. But on a day-to-day basis, nothing sticks. It's the worst. It all has to be done again the next day.

But I found that when I got up to write, if I wrote 500 words that morning, those 500 words were still there the next day and I could build on them. And so building a writing practice was really getting my life back and claiming a piece of the day for myself, you know, reactivated that intellectual side. And I think for the first time really turned on a creative side that I hadn't, you know, in academic writing, it's mostly straightforward and it's not as creative in the same kind of way. And so I found my creative voice and I realized I can connect these generations that won't know each

other and won't meet each other, but I can connect to them. And then in a larger sense, connect my grandma's life and legacy to a broader audience too. So here's a big secret that nobody knows. Actually, probably everybody knows, but especially the first like nine months I was doing this show, I've got all this expertise sitting with people. I don't say expertise, like from a clinical, I mean, from a clinical and academic standpoint, but like years of practice, just sitting with folks. And I would get such and such call, like they would, you know, Kelly or Jenna would send the calls. It's Kelly back then. She'd send the calls. Hey, this calls, what's coming tomorrow? And I would ask you like, hey, this person's said this, this, and this, and this,

I'm thinking about saying whatever. And you would say, Oh, good God, do not say that. God help you. Don't say that. Why don't you ask him this and this? And I was like, Oh, that's genius. And so like, this is just us being as honest as we can. You're a way better writer than me by a long shot. My mom called this weekend. She's editing your new book. She called this weekend and was like, hey, this is amazing. I quit editing it and I just started reading it and I just sat there and read the whole thing through. Like just in an honest, honest way, you could probably do this job better than me. No. Not that all the peripheral stuff.

Yeah. But when it comes to like hey what should I say why don't you ask him this I'm like oh yeah that's genius right or when it comes to writing here's your husband getting paraded around

on the bestseller lists and like Sheila how many books we sold this month and how do you handle that because I know it sucks yeah

like there's a good part because we share the same checking account yes we do and you know my boss flies us around the country sometimes, and that's awesome. But there's like a reality to that. Yeah, and that's when I'm still in the reckoning.

Yeah, but again, it goes back to I have a core identity. So yes, it's hard to be an indie author and I have to hire someone to edit and do cover design and I do all of my own marketing, which is the only reason I agreed to be on your podcast. And so there's that and then you have people who just, like just a machine that just does all of this.

And it's amazing to watch. And when I find myself saying, must be nice, that's not me being mad at you. That's me being jealous. And the flip side of that is I would never trade with you because I have absolute autonomy. I make all the final choices in my business. And you have to have your face on your cover of every book. Right. I have to fight for everything.

I get to choose an artist to do the cover of my book. So a different kind of artist, I guess. So I would never trade that ever. I set my own schedule and I see if your clients in the summer so that I can have flexibility with our kids. Like I get to make all the choices. And I think for me, autonomy is maybe the highest value and what I'm looking for in work. And autonomy is a privilege too, right? Yeah, for sure. Because you can. autonomy is a privilege too right yeah for sure it's a privilege i mean your path has led me to this place where i can have that privilege and and you know being an indie

author is not going to pay all our bills so i couldn't do it at all if it weren't for your half of the the partnership but it sounds like you're holding both and that's like it's i to me i think both and solve so much of what's going on in our discourse in the country and in our homes and in our marriages and with our kids it's like i feel this way i'm gonna go to the next yeah right thing yeah it also know, sometimes it does. Yeah. I struggle with the fact that our daughter never met me. When you were a gangster. Yeah.

Yeah. But you're a gangster now. It's just a different kind of gangster. Yeah. Yeah. She did ask one day in the car, if you had a business, what would you call it? I said, well, actually, I do have a business. And I got to name it. If you were a doctor, what kind would you be? Well, oh, yeah, you never knew. You never knew that part. You've probably shared this story, but she does think, well, she doesn't anymore. But there was a moment when she thought I was famous and you weren't. Pretty awesome. Because she saw me signing books for a friend and her eyes got wide and she said, are you famous?

And our friend, of course, answered, yes, did you not know your mom's famous? And that was news to her, news to me too, but she had never heard anyone say that you're famous and she's never seen you sign books. Yeah, when I brought my book in, I was like, I wrote one and she goes, dad, that's not a real book. Like your face is on it. And I was like, no, no, it counts. And she's like, it doesn't count, dad.

And she's holding on to that. She will not let you have that. And she gets that from her mom. Yes. It's her best quality. Yeah. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes.

And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings.

We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself,

and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere

so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, so we're back and I know we're running out of time, Kelly, so I'll hustle and spend. Oh, this is the one I wanted the most time for.

Okay, good. We spent all day. All right, go ahead. All right, so this is the 500th episode, which still blows my mind. I think it's like the drum roll moment to give everybody the dirt. What's it like to live

and be in the ecosystem of kind of a maniac husband who's a YouTuber and who's, what's it like to live with John? I thought that was the first question. No, that's like living with somebody with ADHD. You just did a very good coaching move

and you said like, I don't know ADHD, but I know my husband like that. Okay. Yeah. So behind closed doors, we. Like that. Okay. Yeah. So behind closed doors, we've established I'm messy. Yeah. And can I say there's a difference between messy and gross?

Yeah. I'm not gross. No. But I am messy. Yes. Yes. So I will just defend you on the not gross thing. Okay, good.

I'm overly hygienic, I think. Yes, you are. I could share that your skincare routine is something to behold, and it always has been. That predates even our dating, I think. I dated one of my first girlfriends who told me I would be handsome if I didn't have such bad skin. It just locked into my soul.

Yeah, it did. All those voices. So, you know, the weekly face mask and the rollie. I don't even know what all of our tools in our bathroom do. I just know that they're yours. And it didn't occur to me until I was in my forties that I should wash my face every night. So I'm 63 and look how good I look. Just kidding. Yeah. There's that. Can I talk about grilling? You can talk about it. It's embarrassing.

John is a novice griller. I'm embarrassing when it comes to it. And I don't know why you get so embarrassed about this. This is one of those things. It doesn't bother you until people come over. I know. And I'm the one at the grill with the burgers or the steak or whatever. And then I see it wash over you. And I just think, why? I'm good at this.

Let me do it. You're the best steak cooker I've ever met, ever. It's incredible. And there's been multiple, usually Texas males, but there's occasional Tennessee males who are like, hey, why is your wife grilling? It's like, well, because she's awesome and I don't know how. And it's this look of like, hey, why are you with that woman?

And it's like, because I'm cheating on my wife. It'd be very similar. Just that look of disdain and how dare you, man? Like you let us all down. I mean, you can't be good at everything

and you know so many things. I suck at grilling. I'm not good at grilling. You don't know how to cook in general. Yeah, I'm not good. You've been trying lately. When me and Hank, we eat, what is it, Hank and Dad mush? Yeah, just opening a few cans and adding them to ground beef.

And eggs. Yeah, into a bowl. And eggs. Yeah, Hank would call it Hank and Dad mush. It was fantastic. Just the name of it. All right, so I can't cook, and I've got an elaborate skincare routine. What else?

I'm late. Allegedly, you dropped a baton in high school. That was the first story I ever heard from your friends about you. And they have probably still not let it go. Because I didn't drop it. That's how far back I have to go to have dirt. I feel like you probably, how i'm pretty open about all your voices that tell you how you're horrible i have a feeling everyone's heard everything

you said something while we were walking going on our weekly walks last week that when we were talking about this i was asking if you're nervous or not and you said i just want people to know you're not as good as they think that you are yeah you're not as good and you're not as good as they think that you are. Yeah, you're not as good and you're not as bad. Yeah. Like, I think, and that may be just the curse of any public person. Like, Instagram can make things look a certain way, and you're probably not that smart or that in tuned or that whatever. I don't know. I don't follow you on Instagram. But probably you're not that good, whatever it is um but probably you're not that good whatever it is

but also you're not that bad so whatever the critics are saying or the comments are lobbying i don't know again but or however bad you say that you are about things you're not that bad either i don't miss appointments i'm five minutes late to everything. Yeah. You're a good guy who's trying really hard. Sometimes you miss, but you're always trying. But as Yoda says, that's not enough. You're a regular person. I don't do Star Wars.

That's true. Last thing. What's your favorite thing about people coming up to us while we're having dinner together? When they walk away. I thought it was going to be when they told me how wonderful I am. Maybe they put their hand up to your face and like, hold on. I know you're in the middle of something romantic. No.

Again, I'm getting more used to it and having to do my own like, why does that bother me so much? Mostly, I like to go through life unnoticed. So here I am. Look how much work I've done. through life unnoticed. So here I am. Look how much work I've done. This is years of therapy. Way to go, Holly. Way to go, Holly.

Yeah. So, yeah, I still don't love it. Yeah. And I appreciate so much that they want to acknowledge you and that they want to show gratitude or share like some impact you've had. I love that. I just wish I didn't have to be part of it, which is why people may notice. Like, I thought your wife was here.

I have to go to the bathroom. She's in the parking lot. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't love it and I do appreciate it. A while ago when we were sitting down across, this is years ago, sitting down saying like, if we're going to stay married, we have to like rebuild this thing from the floor up. And I remember as a part of that series of conversations we had, one of the things I said that like it was so embarrassing for me at the time. I was just so humiliated and embarrassed.

But it was like, can you just tell me you're proud of me? And as I've gotten my own therapy, shout out Holly. Way to go. Same therapist. Incredible. As I've gotten weller, if you will, I've begun to see that everywhere. Like I've begun to see that everywhere. Like, I've begun to see that you do love me. And that, you know, as Brene Brown says,

whatever you go looking for, that's what you're going to find. And I was looking for all the ways I was coming up short. And I missed how all those ways. You were wrestling with your own stuff and at the same time saying, no, no, no, I'm really proud of you. One day when I was working at Belmont, I come racing home for lunch and I'd forgotten something.

And I grabbed something to eat, but I'd forgotten something. And then I kissed you and as I was leaving the door, I mean, leaving the house, you said, you must be amazing at your job and I stopped and dropped my shoulders

and I was like she sees it but there's more she sees it and you said you followed up with cause you're such a disaster in every facet of your life you must be so good

when you just get there and plug in and i remember thinking hey that's very true like i think that all the other places i've worked they put up with kind of the maniacal whatever because when it went down i was really good when it went down and if it was like gotta fix the budget someone's gonna take their life like deloney will show up and he'll kill he he'll just do a great job. But we got to deal with all this drumming going on over here. But it really was a turning point like, what if I tried to be less of a disaster in every part of my life and showed up? What did it make showing up better?

And I think over the last three to five years, I've proven that to myself that kind of like the artist is like I gotta do drugs so I can write good songs then they get sober and they realize their songs are great they're actually better and clearer and their shows are better I don't know that was an important moment for me both you recognizing like you must be good at your job and man you're hard to be around but that's also how I experience you in a marriage. It's like what I was saying. I'll put up with the piles because all the other stuff is so great. And in the stuff that really matters, you show up and you do a good job. You're a good dad and all that good stuff.

All that good stuff. But you're a mess. That's the trade I'm willing to make. A mess holistically. Yes. That's the trade I'm willing to make. A mess. Holistically. Yes. You're consistent. I'm consistent.

Hey, I love you. Thank you for being my friend. I love you. Thanks for this. For being married to me. And for coming out of the woods, being on the internet now forever. Forever. Yes.

Yeah, don't make me regret it already. And you're beautiful. Thanks. We won't regret it. Thanks. Your skin looks good. Thank you, love. You're welcome.

Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com.

Oh, we're back. And so that's all out there now. That is all out there. And as you can see, I married way above my head. I outkicked my coverage by a long, long way. And yeah, they're pretty good. They're pretty good. So hopefully you enjoyed that conversation with me and my wife, Dr. Deloney. And as we wrap up today's show, picked a song that she loves from one of her favorites of all time. From the great, original Texas country star, George Strait. Song's called The Chair.

And it goes like this. Excuse me, but I think you've got my chair no that one's not taken i don't mind if you sit here i'll be glad to share yeah it's usually packed here on friday nights oh if you don't mind can i talk you out of a light well thank you can i buy you a drink oh listen to me what i mean is can i buy you a drink anything you please oh you're welcome well i don't think i caught your name are you waiting for someone to meet you here well that makes two of us glad you came to tell you the truth that wasn't my chair after all i wish i wrote that song because my wife would love me a little bit more.

She wouldn't tell all my secrets. I love you guys. See you soon.