The Dr. John Delony Show - The Real Reasons You and Your Spouse Fight

Episode Date: March 15, 2023

On today’s show, we hear from: - A young woman unsure of how to have a relationship with her dishonest mother - Delony on how to spot sources of conflict in your relationships - A man struggling to control his emotions after brain surgery Lyrics of the Day: "The Ballad of Love and Hate" - The Avett Brothers   Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. My senior year of high school, I saved up a bunch of money to pay cash for my first car. And because I was 17 and a minor at the time, my mom had access to my bank account. And she decided to take that money to pay off her debt. That was the money from my car. I'm so sorry. Yo, yo, yo. What's up?

What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so happy to be talking to you guys. Hope you're doing well and hope your families are healthy. Hope your son is out wherever you are. If it's raining, I hope you are curled up with a good book. Probably none of those things are happening, but it's always fun just to toss out some sunshine out there, right? Hey, if you want to be on the show, the greatest mental health and marriage podcast ever. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291,

or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. And please don't forget, listen, the number of downloads per month is in the millions. And the number of subscriptions is not hit the subscribe button, please, please, please. It really helps us out. And it helps out people who have never heard of the show ever. And, um, if you think this show is miserable and torture that you can torture people, you don't like that's fantastic. But if you think it you think it's going to help other people um man it's such a gift just hitting the subscribe button or the like button or whatever the buttons are these days all right that's enough of that let's go to leslie in saint paul what's up leslie hi dr john how are you i'm fantastic how are you i'm doing great thank you life's doing life's going okay? Yeah. Excellent. What's up? How can I help?

So something I've been wrestling with internally is wanting to break generational curses as a first-generation immigrant, but feeling a lot of guilt. So I had called into the Dave Ramsey show and it was mostly a financial question. My senior year of high school, I saved up a bunch of money to pay cash for my first car. And because I was 17 and a minor at the time, my mom had access to my bank account and she decided to take that money to pay off her debt. That was the money from my car. I'm so sorry. So I called, and George and Christina kind of helped me with the financial aspect, but I was wondering if you could guide me through the emotional aspect of, you know, I'm in college right now. I'm studying really hard to get a good job and, like, avoid debt.

But then there's that emotional part of it. What's your cultural background? I'm West African. Okay. Is that a strongly maternal culture? Yeah. Yeah. Actually, no.

It's very patriarchal, actually. Okay. Okay. Oh, man. very patriarchal actually. Okay. Oh, man. Here's the thing. This is hard to do and it's really probably not the right thing to do, but let's take the cultural aspect. You know what? You can't.

I can't just tell you to scoot that over. Let me just say this. I think in my Western context, taking somebody's money from them is wrong across the board. It is in my culture too. I mean, I was talking to my siblings, my aunts and uncles. Most people would agree that this is wrong. I mean, so yeah, maybe you should take the culture off. Well, I don't want to do that. I think that's been a problem as though you can just take culture on and off like a pair of sunglasses, right? But that helps me because there are cultures that your kids are very much yours.

And so what's theirs is yours. And so it would be seen as something that in my house I would consider stealing. You're a thief. You stole from me. And in other cultures, it might not be seen that way. So my house I would consider stealing. You're a thief. You stole from me. And in other cultures, it might not be seen that way. So I want to be sensitive to that. But at the same time, I want to honor your request to begin to create your new life here as a first- immigrant and you get to begin to wrestle with how do you hold on to the heritage parts of your heritage that you want to keep and you want to be a part of your life moving forward

how do you how do you grab on to these this new western culture that you're learning and then really what do you have designed for your life and it sounds like if i'm i don't speak into too much but it sounds like what you're saying is i have to grieve the loss of my mother because she stole from me, and I'm done with that relationship. Is that fair? Well, I don't want to be done with the relationship because I know she has a lot of hurt herself, but I do think that it's wrong okay let me stop you right there you aren't responsible for her hurt and her hurt doesn't give liberty for her to steal from you okay i always always think parents have a right to be treated with dignity or and respect even if it's in a dignified way, in a respectful way saying, I'm never going to talk to you again. Okay. Or saying I, the word here is boundaries. You are going to have to learn how to create boundaries that keep you safe, keep your stuff

safe. And sometimes staying safe inside of a boundary also hurts really bad because it's lonely. And you should have your mom as your number one fan in your life right now and your mom took from you and let me also add this layer she took your money but i think she took something bigger from you i think what she also took from you is your, your supports, like you were resting on her and then suddenly she pulled that, that, uh, support out from under you.

Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. And it's almost like you lost your money and that's heartbreaking and all that. You had plans for that money, but it's almost heartbreaking in like, it's like you're walking on sand now, right?

Like you can't get a firm, firm grasp on the ground. I don't know. Tell me, tell me, keep talking. Yeah. So like the financial aspect is one thing, but then it was like the manipulation and the gaslighting that ensued, like almost, almost being blamed for it essentially that that was like okay well you know money comes and goes it can be replaced but the manipulation and gaslighting and then also like hey leslie leslie make sure you're talking into your phone okay yeah and then also trying to build my own financial picture but then like knowing that I'm responsible for someone else's

at the same time, it's very stressful. You're not, you're 18 years old. Okay. Now here's, here's, here's the deal. If you make big, if you make adult decisions, sometimes they come with adult consequences. What do I mean by that? You get your own account so that your mom can't take it anymore. Which I did. Okay. Do you pay your own account so that your mom can't take it anymore. Which I did. Okay. Do you pay your own tuition? I get full ride scholarships.

Okay. So, no, I don't pay any tuition. But, I mean, you're not dependent on her financially. Nope, not at all. Okay. Now you have to decide how much you can be around her emotionally, physically, financially before you become somebody that you do not want to become. You become somebody who is snippy, who has to hide things, who can't tell the truth, who whatever, because it's not safe. See what I'm saying?

Yeah, I understand and this is going to be really hard because you're 18 years old and your mom should be your number one cheerleader and instead your mom's leading the charge of making it difficult for you to find your footing as you grow into adulthood yeah have you grieved that?

have you sat down and just wept? or have you just been angry? yeah I remember one time I just had a total emotional breakdown. I was just like sobbing, like crying hysterically to the point where like she could hear me all the way upstairs. And then she came in my room. It's like, oh, my gosh, why are you crying? And you didn't even tell me. I can't believe that I'm not the first person you would run to.

And I didn't do anything wrong by taking your money. I didn't do anything wrong because I don't understand why you're crying. So that was the response I got. And you know that's manipulative, right? Yes, I understand. Okay. And there's something deeper than that manipulation. You know that that's your mother severing the relationship and that hurts.

It's really easy to stop at the act that makes us enraged or scared. But beneath that, the most core relationship you have is with your mom. And she told you through her actions, this relationship is over now. It is something different. And quite honestly, you've probably known that for a long time. Is that fair? I guess. This type of manipulation and dishonesty and thievery doesn't just happen once.

It's happened to other siblings as well. Okay. Okay. Okay. So the real question is, what are you going to do now? Well, obviously I'm keeping my stuff separate now. And, you know, like, obviously I morally, it does not feel right to me to leave your parents destitute for retirement. But I also understand that my finances have to come first so i don't know i guess i'm struggling internally with finding like the right balance is it you that's leaving them destitute or is it your mom choosing to not work and your dad choosing to not

work are they unable to my she does work but she has a bunch of debt that she's making no effort to pay off. How is an 18-year-old kid going to be more responsible for her adult mother's life than her adult mother? I guess I can't and shouldn't. Not only are you not being invited in to be a part of the solution, um, you're being excluded from this, right? You're,

um, uh, it's a very parasitic relationship. Right. Cause like she has a job where she makes like 13 bucks an hour and we're like, you are starving. You can't continue doing that because but because it's such an easy job she doesn't want to quit and do something that yes is more difficult but like

would pay more has she asked you to come help pay her bills uh yeah and then i didn't do that so that's also like a source of attention. Man. In fact, she's like 45 and she's like, I should be retired right now. I shouldn't have to work. Wow. Wow.

Leslie, you just, here's the deal. You just got some hard decisions ahead of you. I agree with you. I would not let my parents be destitute either, but I'm older. I'm in my forties now. I'm not 18.

At 18, there's very little you can do. And your parents have not asked you, Hey, how can we make our situation different? They've stolen from you. How can we, do you know any insights? Do you know any new tips or tricks or hacks? And you could show them, you know, Ramsey Solutions stuff on how to get out of debt, or you could show them

my friend Ken Coleman stuff on how to get a job, or you could point them to this show about how to improve your relationships and how to improve your mental health. They don't have any interest in that. And so there comes a moment when you continuing to give them money is actually disrespectful because you're participating in, you're accelerating their demise, if you will. You see what I'm saying? Right.

Right. if you will you see what i'm saying right right and so don't participate in their desire to not be well but also i think like first of all she barely speaks english and can't read or write so i sympathize with her in that sense like she can't just pick up the Dave Ramsey total money makeover. Of course. Of course. It's hard. Like there's, and that's what I'm saying. There's no easy path forward here. And I'm not saying that your mom,

I mean, her path is really challenging. It's very, very difficult. Very difficult. And it's lonely and it's disconcerting and she's lost her, her cultureconcerting and she's lost her, her culture.

Right. Um, and she's thrown into this chaos. Like I get all of that. It's all hard. The challenge for you is being very honest with yourself and choosing reality. You can't heal that for her. She can take steps and she can invite you in.

And an invitation is much different than stealing. A plan is much different, is more different than a bailout, if you will. And so my heart is broken for her and with her. I totally, I empathize with her all the way. And I know that until she decides, I want this to be different. And here's the deal. I worked with immigrant students my whole career. They were some of the, you better get out of their way, dude. Because there was no stopping them.

No stopping them no stopping them and so there is i've seen it over and over and over and over again people deciding enough is enough i'm gonna make this different now and i'm gonna take advantage of every resource and i know poverty's gnarly and i know i'm gonna have to do something i don't to do, which is ask for help and ask for help and ask for help and ask for help. And I'm going to have to lean on my kids, not in an oppressive way, but in a can you help me out kind of way. And I've just seen it over and over, Leslie, over and over. And until your mom comes to that or your dad comes to that on their own, you can't walk around being their parent. What's funny is that he does very well financially, but they keep their finances totally separate, which is a whole nother situation. Yeah, yeah.

That's just them choosing to be dysfunctional in their relationship. And again, there's so many layers here. There's a cultural layer. There's the educational layer. There's the you're my kid layer. There's the I didn't do anything wrong. There's so many layers here. There's a cultural layer. There's the educational layer. There's the you're my kid layer. There's the I didn't do anything wrong. There's so many layers here. And every time there's a bunch of layers, I want to clear the deck and write down on a piece of paper, what can I control and what can I not control? And what I can control, I'm going to go from there. I'm going to do those things.

I'm going to take care of those things. And you can love your mom, and like I said, you can treat her with dignity, and you can treat her with respect, but you can't make her decide that she's going to take care of herself. You can't make her decide that she is going to have more self-worth than, well, I guess this is just all there is. And that you're going to continue to let her take from you and to, if you will, hold you back. And in some shape, form, or fashion, the greatest gift you could give them is to go be really successful in school. Like you said, it's not even about money. Your dad's got money. They're just not sharing.

They're just not sharing. Um, holding's a mess here. If you were my friend and we were sitting down having nachos, I would tell you, write down a piece of paper, control what I can control and let the rest of the stuff go. And just know when it comes to family, when it comes to culture and it comes to all this mess, letting those those things go hurts, and it's painful, and you have to grieve it. But just because it hurts doesn't mean it's wrong. Just because it hurts doesn't mean it's wrong. We'll be right back.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes, and if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck

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that's better help h-e-l-p dot com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. Let's just get right into it. It's time for more Facts or Your Friends. Let's do it. Please, God, change this music. Please. There's so much good music out there. There's too much, they say. Please. Please. Hey, it's Facts or Your Friends. Everybody's favorite. All right. Today, we're talking about an article. It's relatively old. It's a couple years old. 2021 by Gary Lewandowski. I think that's how you say his last name. He's a writer for Psychology Today, which is an online psychology magazine, I guess. They used to have it in grocery stores.

I'm trying to think. It's more pop psychology. They do have all sorts of articles. But anyway, Kelly, you found this? Yes, I did. The 10 most common sources of conflict in relationships. So I went through this and I'm going to kind of do it out of order. And I ended up focusing on a few things other than those 10 things. So study of 2,600 married couples from Britain, China, Russia, Turkey, u.s found the most common sources of conflict

drumroll please huge surprise here not really division of labor inside the home finances raising children and sex and women were more likely to report problems than men no way no way man this these are our research dollars hard at work america. All right. I want to talk about these five for a minute before I get to I'll run through the other stuff, but i'm gonna get to these five division of labor I have Man, i'm gonna get myself in trouble here and that's fine. I feel like There's some truth telling that needs to happen here. This is often regulated along two distinct lines,

and one is discussed a lot and the other one isn't, and I've never heard it discussed anywhere other than in quiet whispers with a group of guys playing poker or just going for walks in the woods because they don't know why their wives don't like them so much. Here's number one. We talk about this and we've got to talk about it more. Women's roles at home, even with the vast acceleration of women into the workforce, I think this weekend it was seven out of 10 college graduates are women. I mean, the scales have tipped so far the other way. Women are in the workforce.

They're in higher education. They are closing the pay gap. And women still take on the lion's share of household chores. And yes, I think it's because men don't see this as quote unquote their job. And I know this is going to get me in trouble, but sometimes women do see it as quote unquote their job. And there's this disconnect and men go home and they prop their feet up and they then wonder where their dinner magically is. And they wonder how these diapers are magically getting changed. That exists. The research research does if i'm being honest it says that gap is closing but it is still not

close to being closed and and the other line is often one partner in a romantic relationship determines the benchmark for household chores what needs to be done around here, and then criticizes or complains the others not agreed upon standard. And we don't talk about that enough. That's usually talked in hushed whispers. For instance, I'll just use my house, for example, because my wife doesn't listen to this show, so it's okay. I could do just fine with the dishes being done two or three times a week, maybe once a week, maybe once every other week. And for my wife, they need to be done every day, seven days a week. And so there's been conflict over time in our marriage because she says, you don't help out around here. And I'm looking around suggesting there's no help needed. Those dishes will be fine. There's like seven plates and four cups

in the dishwasher. I mean, in the sink, nothing's on fire. There's more in the cabinet. And for her, that is one of the things that needs to be done before the day is over. And so I would challenge the notion, I'm not helping around the house. I would challenge that with this idea that we have not sat down and said, hey, here's what makes you feel whole in this house. Here's what makes me feel whole in this house. Let's get there. And then from there, if I don't do what we agreed upon, now we got a problem. Kelly, you're married. Am I off here? Oh, no way.

I mean, that you just 100% described my marriage of. Oh, no, it's going to be trouble. My husband saying, but the bathroom is clean. It means me saying, but it wasn't wiped down this weekend. And he'd be like, but it's clean. And so you go to your girlfriends, you're all hanging out and she's like, Robert never cleans the bathroom.

I got to go clean it. And he is staring off into the stars in the front yard in his underwear. Just like, what am I doing wrong? I don't understand. Yeah, the neighbors don't like us very much. So maybe that explains why. But yeah, because it's like,

but to him, it's like, fine, look at it. There's nothing anywhere. nothing so the issue here isn't a reported he's not helping on the house it's really we haven't sat down and established what does clean look like and you giving a little bit and being like okay it doesn't have to be sandblasted every other saturday and him you're like yes yes, it does. Every Saturday, not every other. Thank you very much. And him realizing that just because there's no dirty underwear on the floor, that doesn't mean clean. And I remember my mom telling me there's a difference between picked up and clean.

I get that. That's the division of labor. That's the division of labor conversation. Okay. So do what we did and just hire someone. Oh, gosh. Don't even get me going there. Hey. And on the other hand, I do want to call this out. Guys, get off your butts and help around the house. Just help. Anytime. Here's the example. Anytime you're about to sit down and you look over and you see your wife not sitting down. You don't sit down yet. Don't sit down.

I work hard all day. Shut up. Don't sit down. She needs to be shut off. Don't sit down. Before you sit down, ask her, hey, is there anything I'm not seeing? Anything I can do to help? How could I love you better right now?

Right this second. And she might say, sit down and put your feet feet up man. You've been running like crazy And she might say it would mean the world to me if you could just go grab the hamper out of such and such kids room What a gift What a gift So I want every every wife every husband every couple listening to this this talk about division of labor I want you all to sit down and say, okay, where do you feel like I don't show up for you? And this is, man, I'm not genderizing this. It could be any of you. Where am I not showing up for you when it comes to

the division of labor in the household? And for those things that come up, like, I do help around the kitchen. Oh, once a week. Well, that's all that needs to be cleaned. Okay. Now we have not a division of labor issue, but a, what does labor look like? An excellence issue. A, I feel safe. I feel clean. I feel gross. I feel not enough. Whatever that looks like. And it may be that the kitchen needs to be this clean in case somebody comes over and they're going to judge you Husband or wife by the cleanliness of your kitchen standards And so if it's not up to that that

Keeping up with the joneses someone may come over and judge me So i'm going to blame him or blame her for not living up to this imaginary standard. You see how we get into this weird dance So all that said, sit down and help each other out. The second one, finances. I think finances is less about money and more about a couple of things. Number one, control. Whoever controls the money controls the house. And it can be controlled in one of two ways. The very abusive with significant correlation to physical abuse. The guy. And yes, I'm over genderizing this one.

You don't spend money without me. You don't go to the store by yourself. You don't do any like there's that kind of control. I run the money around here. And women can run the money. Like I am the person in charge of the money. I'll give you an allowance. So I hear that.

Or, hey, let me check with my wife to see if I can buy that. Man, that means y'all haven't talked. So there's that kind of control. There's also control. I just spend whatever I want whenever I want. I buy whatever. You can't tell me what I can. There's that control too, which is madness.

Also, finances is about worth. In our culture, when you ask the question, what is he worth? What is she worth? We define that not by relationships and not by who they're loved and who they love and who love them. We answer the question, what are you worth with a number, which is a tragedy. It's a cultural tragedy, but that's what we do. And if my number is low, it's easy to begin to feel like not pulling his weight. He's not worth much. I'm married to a loser. And that goes both ways. Both genders all over the place. And the third one, money is a really good indicator. You can look at how much you make right now and what your career trajectory is, and you can just push out 30 or 40 years and say, okay,

this is about what our life's going to look like. And most of us don't like to live in that reality. So money tells you who you are and what you find valuable, how you spend money. And so couples need to sit down and say, hey, where are we going? What do we find valuable, how you spend money. And so couples need to sit down and say, hey, where are we going? What do we find valuable together in this life we've chosen to make together? It never ceases to amaze me. As long as I live, people will create humans together. They'll share DNA, but they won't share a checking account. This is my money. This is his money. This is her money. I can't think of, other than just outright abuse and infidelity, I can't think of something that's more divisive in a marriage. If you have to protect your own money, you shouldn't get married because you're not all in. You're mostly in. And mostly in doesn't work in marriage.

All right. That can be a whole conversation real quick raising children I want to do it like this or you want to do it like that or my mom did it like this or this is how I was raised kids are the new parent scorecard it's the report card for parents in the 21st century everyone's got

steps and tips and tricks instead of focusing on your relationship with each other and focusing on your relationship with the kids. That's a whole other conversation. But there's something about saying, okay, when this kid is 25, what do we want for our child? And I would start that conversation. Number one, I want my kid to want to come home. Why do I start there instead of I want my kid to be successful,

I want my kid to be a Fortune 500 CEO, I want my kid to be married well? Because everything, everything for a child is rooted in the attachment relationship with their parents. Everything. So whenever I think about my son or I think about my daughter, I push out to the age they're 25 and I hope wherever they are, married, kids, single, in the military, a roofer, getting a postdoc at Stanford, whatever. I, number one, first and foremost, want them to know, know oh dude there's a safe place i can

always go there's two people that are rooting for me no matter what raising kids about relationship fourth one is sex you know we talk about this all the time on this show sex means everything in our culture all of of it. All at once. It's the most wild twist of fate, but here we are. I'll blow past that one because we talk about that a lot here. I want to touch on this because it's important. Women are more likely to report problems than men. As Esther Perel has reported, as women have entered the workforce and earned economic independence, divorces have spiked

because women no longer have to take abusive, bum husbands. They can just leave. And throughout history, that has not been possible. And now you see it happening all over the world. Women are demanding more, and I want everyone to hear this. This is good for everybody everybody And I love what terrence real says

The world of relationships has changed radically. It's exploded Women have been lied to that. They're all they need You can do this all by yourself now. Now that you are economically independent, you need nobody. Their careers in independence will complete them and save them. This isn't true. This is bearing itself out in the mental health literature. And men just want to go back to the way things used to be.

If we can just get these roles back to where they used to be, then everything will be fine. This is foolish and stupid. It's also not going to happen. What has to happen is a total rethinking of marriage and relationships and attachment and connection. This is why I do this show. It's to paint a new picture of what life can look like

when two people get on the same page and say, let's ride or die, and let's do this thing right. And we don't have a roadmap because this isn't how our parents did it. It's not how their parents did it before them. Terrence Real says, women are unhappy in their marriages because they want men to be more relatable than most men know how to be. And men are unhappy in their marriages because their women seem so unhappy with them. I think that's so powerful. Women want a co-earner and a co-parent raiser

and a co-partner and somebody to share their dreams with or someone to talk with and someone to be romantic with. And most men don't have all those skills that's all they are their skills and men just want to know why their wives don't like them like why don't you like me and i don't know how to ask that question so i covered up with beer and football games and loudness and whatever other thing i decide I'm going to crank out into the world. So let's create a world where men can say, hey, I feel this thing, and I'm going to go do the next right thing. And women can say, I feel this thing, and then I'm going to go do the next right thing, and we're going to do the next right thing and women can say I feel this thing and then I'm going to go do the next right thing and we're going to do the next right thing together and a quick buzz through these

things the 10 sources of conflict partners condescending possessive jealous or dependent neglecting or rejecting unreliable abusive unfaithful inconsiderate physically self-absorbed a great sign of immaturity they're moody emotionally unstable you spray your feelings all over the

place sexually withholding or rejecting quick to sexualize others you're always talking about how hot everybody else is some of you are listening to this and you're like I don't know what to do here's a great place to start if you're like oh crap that's me that's me that's me great place to start get a babysitter take your significant other out male or female I don't care and start the conversation like this. I'm sorry. I made you a project. I made you my dad.

I was trying to be your mom. I thought complaining and nagging or avoiding and not participating was the way I could get through life and I don't want that anymore. I want you and I to build something bigger and greater. And I'm going first. I'm sorry.

I don't know how we get to where we're going from here, but I'm committed to ride if you are. Let's do something different. Let's create a life worth living. Let's create a life where we laugh a lot and it's not very anxious. And it is a life of joy because it's going to be hard.

So let's agree to do the hard stuff together and to create a life that's not anxious and that's fun while we can. Start there. Start there. Few conversations are made worse by starting with the words,

I'm sorry. Let's minimize conflict if we can. We all need a little less conflict we'll be right back all right let's go back to my hometown h-town and talk to alex hey what's up alex dr deloney how are you i'm partying man how about you better than i deserve excellent i'm not partying at all actually i'm at work what are you? I'm partying, man. How about you? Better than I deserve. Excellent. I'm not partying at all, actually. I'm at work. What are you doing, man? Not much.

Very cool. How can I help? Okay, well, just in short, I have a history of being very rageful. If a person is trying to make me mad or angry and they say the right thing, I can go from very happy to full-on rage mode very quickly. This has resulted in a wedge between my parents and myself. It resulted in me pushing away my ex-girlfriend, whom I still love with all my heart. And I'm curious as to how I can get rid of this because it's turning me into something that I don't recognize.

I mean, it's, it sounds like emotional regulation issues. How long have you been rageful? My mom says it started when I had brain surgery. Alex lead with that dude lead with that. So I had brain surgery and then I became had some emotional regulation

disorder. What kind of brain surgery did you have? I've had epilepsy for 17 years. Okay, so you've got brain lesions. Do they go in and take out a chunk of your brain somewhere? What'd they do? They attempted to. So it was a week and a half of brain mapping. So they cut into

your brain, your skull, map out the brain. And they wait for your seizures and then track them and trace them? And try to determine where exactly the seizures are coming from. Yeah. Where were yours coming from? They determined it was far too close to Broca's

area that if they cut into that area and missed, I would not be able to speak for the rest of my life, worst case scenario. Oh, so that was down in your frontal lobe. Nothing. Nothing. They made it my choice. They said we would need parental consent. No, no, no.

I'm saying it's down there. That's that area right behind your ear, right? Oh, yes. Yes, sir. Okay. And so it was far enough back that they didn't want to dig in there. Yes, sir. Okay. And so it was close. It was far enough back that they didn't want to dig in there? Yes, sir.

Okay. All right. Jeez. Okay. I'm not entirely certain if, since I didn't suffer like a massive, like massive brain damage or a head injury, I'm not sure if there's a correlation between change of behavior and just like an invasive surgery such as that.

But that's when my parents said that my anger started to increase. So I've got two trains of thought here, okay? And I want to just say outright, I'm not a neuroscientist by any stretch of the imagination, not even close, okay? Okay. My first thought is, have you heard of the Phineas Gage story? Yes, sir. When the bolt went through his eye and out of his... Yeah, it shot through his frontal lobe.

Did he survive? Yeah, he was a railroad guy in the 1800s, and he was packing powder, and it exploded, and it shot it like a missile through his brain. But he lived. And the story goes, before this happened, he was a fun-loving, fun guy. And the part of the brain that it severed, that it shot through, had to do with emotional regulation part of his brain and his frontal lobe. And the people around him said he became a radically different person. He couldn't keep down a job. And then 12 years later, he ended up with some pretty significant seizures and he passed away. But he became really, they call him the father of neuroscience because it

started this idea like, oh, there's certain parts of your brain that house certain activities and certain, where's memory and where's motor functioning and where's thought and where's laughter and where's fear. All that came from, oh, he lived. He's just a totally different guy now. And so that's my first thought. Either you've got a brain lesion somewhere or when they were in there messing around, something happened. That's number one. The other side of it is, you may have heard me say this if you ever listen to the show, but anger, I believe, is, to quote Rage Against the Machine, anger is a gift. It points us towards things that are not as they should be or as we see them not as they should be. And I view rage as caged up anger with nowhere to go,

and it becomes explosive. And I can imagine if I'm you. Now, again, I'm rattling off the top of my head here, okay? If I'm you and I've been suffering from seizures for so long How Were they grand mal seizures? They're called partial complex Ah, jeez

They only affect half of my brain And do you know when they're coming? Or they just hit you out of the blue? Yes, I can tell when they're coming And what's the Do you get catatonic do you do you have a full-on seizure on the ground like what what what is your physical um expression of these seizures so if i were to have one um just like you know in front of you face to face or someone

who is not familiar with what a seizure looks like they would think that I'm kind of just like tuning them out and just, you know, not paying attention to what they're saying. I want to just stand up and like walk around aimlessly, pick something up, put it down. I've had one grand mal seizure in my life. Okay. So when you have these seizures, you feel them coming on,

they come, so frustrating. It's like you feel them coming on they come so frustrating it's like you're not in control of your body right exactly they happen at least twice a day okay and

you go to all this brain mapping all this surgery they get all this stuff done and they tell you sorry man we can't help you. If that's me, I would be angry that I got this brain. I'm looking at all these kids in my grade and they've all got brains that are different. That seem to be functioning and they're drinking them and smoking them away.

But I got one that chooses to shower me with electricity a couple of times a day. And then the doctors say, hey, we can't do anything for you. And that just puts a lid on that anger. And in my world, that's rage. And so what I'm telling you is I don't know if this is

physiological or if it's psychological. What I think is important is you've identified this as a problem. Is that fair? Absolutely. Yes, sir. Is it something that you have determined you are unable to help? My anger? Yes, your rage. You're lashing out at people is what I'm asking you. Yes.

For example, my parents. My ex-girlfriend was one of them. I regret it immensely. But if you and I were just sitting across a table looking at each other, would you tell me she said a thing and I was physically unable to stop what happened next? Or if you plumb the depths of Alex,

would you say, no, I was just so mad and frustrated. I just snapped, but I could have not. It's hard because it's a little bit of both um once i've started yelling at someone that's when i'm unable to stop that's fine so what what how far up the river can you move i so for example the the other, the other night, my mom said, uh, it was, it was my fault that,

um, my girlfriend and I broke up and she was right. She was just telling me things that were true that I did not want to hear. And I just kind of had to bite my tongue. And let's stop right there. Let's stop right there. What if when your mom starts telling you something you don't want to hear and you feel your body as though you feel a seizure coming on, you start to feel your body tense up and it starts to become a powder keg. What if you said, mom, I love you. The things you're saying are right. I need to distance myself from this conversation for a minute. Let's circle back at another time.

And that other time may be when you've had more rest. The other time may be when you're not stressed out. The other time may be before work instead of after work. Any number of things. Okay. But when I say how far up river can you get there's a moment when you're going over the waterfall it's too late man i think we've got to we got to that boat's going over the waterfall and we got to see what happens at the end of that cycle right yeah and i don't

know enough about i wouldn't even know what to do if i looked at your brain scans or anything like that so i don't know i don't know what the surgeons did. I don't know any of that, of your psychological state. I don't know any of that stuff. But based on what you're telling me, I think the adventure is not trying to hold back a boat going over the waterfall. I think the adventure is knowing, oh, I just found myself on this highway again and this isn't a good highway for me. So I'm going to go ahead and just stop the car, and I'm going to get out and walk if I need to, but I'm not going to get on that highway.

And what I'm guessing you're going to find is some significant increases in self-control that you didn't otherwise have before. Does that make, am I making sense? Yes. Is that scary, frustrating? Because here's the deal. All of us have to do that

on a daily basis. Your, your project ahead of you is just going to be harder than mine. And I think we just have to own that reality.

Do what? Accepting the way things are currently is very hard to do. It is. It is. What's the alternative? Let's quote actually you. Go to war with reality.

Yeah. I'm kind of done going to war Alex all I look around is see a pile of bodies in my life and I'm kind of done with that so I'm going to make peace with it I'm going to make peace with it but I heard you

speaking about how children should be brought up they should want to come home I want my parents up, they should want to come home. I want my parents to think that I want to come home, but I don't want them to think that I hate them. Okay. Number one, you can't control what your parents think. And I hate that for you, but you can't. The second thing is is no matter what's happening

behaviorally your parents have some sort of guilt over the way your brain works. So a parents are. They're wondering what they My brain works? Yep.

They're wondering what they ate to give you this genetic issue or what they what part of their DNA contributed to the wiring system. Parents will go to the – they will find a way to blame themselves, dude. And so it may be you do what I just said in that last segment, but you're doing it for parents. You flip it around. How old are you? 23,

sir. 23. Man. Can you imagine scrounging the money up and taking your parents out to a cheap breakfast at Cracker Barrel there in Houston and saying, Hey, I want y'all to know I love you so much. I'm so grateful for everything you've done.

And I'm going to get to the bottom of this thing. And I'm going to ask you to, number one, stay with me. Don't give up on me because I'm not giving up on y'all. And I'm not giving up on Alex. Can you imagine that conversation?

That would be amazing. Can you do that? Yeah. Would you do that for you? Because you're carrying so much weight, my brother. And here's the other piece of that. Letting them know, I'm going to work on, just use that analogy I just gave you. I'm going to work on trying to reclaim my emotional regulation. And that means I'm going to have to get way up river.

And sometimes I may put my hand up and say, I need to step away from this conversation. If you can give me a half hour, I would really appreciate it. And to tell them, don't take this as a sign of disrespect. I'm not being ugly. I just feel my body heading down a river

that has a waterfall at the end of it. I don't want to do that. I'm trying to choose a different way. And over time, your body hopefully will settle in. And if it doesn't, it may never, man. You've got some neurological architecture challenges that the rest of us don't have. And so again, instead of going to war with reality, just knowing I need to avoid these kinds of confrontations because I get to a place where I can't come back. And I would strongly recommend that you get with a neuropsychologist and see if there's some sort of exercises you can do

to begin to practice emotional regulation. The brain's got a magical way of drawing from other parts of the brain that don't normally do activities to engage that part of your brain to pick up the slack. Okay. Have you already done that? Have you met with a neuropsychologist? I've met with a psychologist,

not a neuropsychologist i've been with a psychologist i'm not a neuropsychologist okay there's some there's psychologists that are trained to look at your brain and to say okay here's the particular challenges in this particular part of your brain they're gonna they're gonna they're going to express themselves behaviorally in this way and so let's work here because i don't want to give you some tasks that are just unreasonable because of your brain architecture, right? Yeah, sure. I don't want you to beat yourself up for things that you can't help. I also don't want you to avoid things

that you could help. You just didn't have a guide to take you through the jungle. Okay. But beyond all this stuff, before I let you go, don't give up on Alex, man. Thank you.

I'm serious. Thank you, sir. I can hear you're just freaking tired. I am. So tired. Probably tired of the seizures, tired of hurting people that you love, tired of being seizures, tired of hurting people that you love, tired of being alone,

tired of feeling alone. All my life, all I've ever thought about is myself. I took my family for granted. I hurt people that I loved. And I just, I don't want to be that person anymore. Okay.

Two things. Number one, don't want to be that person anymore Okay Two things Number one Don't be Number two Cut yourself some slack dude You've been trying to not die your whole life Is that fair? Yes

A couple of times a day Every day for your life You are struck by lightning. No matter where you were, in the bathroom, with friends, talking to a cute girl, wherever you happen to be, you always knew at some point, I'm going to get hit. And I don't know when and I don't know where and I don't know how it's going to look to the person I'm talking to. And that made you short and and that made you frustrated, and that made you hard to be around sometimes. Big whoopty freaking do.

See it? Yeah. If a little 12-year-old boy came up to you and was trying to apologize because somebody said, I'm going to punch you in the face twice today, you're never going to know what's coming. And you walked up and that kid snapped at you like, hey. And he said, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, sir. I'm so sorry, sir. You would get down on both knees and say, little boy, someone told you they were going to hit you. It's okay. It's okay. And you'd hug that boy tightly, wouldn't you?

Absolutely. Yes. Hug Alex for me because you're not right here in front of me thank you okay thank you don't give up

what I imagine for you in the future is you've got an extraordinary story to tell. Little kids in your exact same situation. That one day you become a really pathfinding neuroscientist or you become a great local counselor

or you just become a great accountant that's got a temper and that sometimes abruptly walks away from conversations. But that people look to because you're honest and you really understand what it feels like to not be at home in your own body. And so you're able to sit with people through all sorts of hell that they've walked through. What I'm saying is the world needs you. Don't rob the world of the gifts you're going to give them. Get the help you need, my man.

So grateful for you. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life,

you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, Kelly, I'm going to throw a quick curveball. This song is one of my favorite songs in the whole world by one of my top two or three bands ever, ever. The song is called The Ballad of Love and Hate by the Great Avett Brothers. And I'm going to fast forward to the end of the song here. It's just a love song that they wrote between love and hate.

The song ends up like this. Hate gets home, lucky to still be alive, and he screams over the sidewalk and into the drive, and the clock in the kitchen says 2.55, and the clock in the kitchen is slow. And love has been waiting, patient and kind, just wanting a phone call or some kind of sign that the one that she cares for who's out of his mind

will make it back safe to her arms. And hate stumbles forward and leans in the door, weary head hung down, eyes to the floor. He says, love, I'm sorry. And she says, what for? I'm yours. And that's it. Whatever. I should not have been gone for so long. I'm yours. And that's it forever. You're mine. And that's it forever. You're mine and that's it forever. We'll see you soon.