The Dr. John Delony Show - What Do We Do When Our Parents Disappoint Us?

Episode Date: October 3, 2022

In today’s episode, we talk with: - A man whose dad, a Sex Addiction Therapist, cheated with a client - A new mom struggling with guilt and indecision about work - A woman worried about her grandkids’ safety Lyrics of the Day: "Talk Too Much" - Coin Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. My dad is a sex addiction therapist. He cheated on my mom with one of his clients. At the time, he was 63 years old. She was 29. I haven't spoken to him in about five months, and I'm just wondering, where do I go from here? What's up?

This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show, the greatest mental health and podcast parenting and everything else podcast ever. So glad that you're with us talking about whatever's going on in your life, the good stuff, the hard stuff, the messy stuff. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. Love to chat with you. We can hang out for a while and figure out whatever's going on. All right, let's go to Daniel in Lexington, Kentucky.

What's up, Daniel? How we doing? Pretty good. How you doing, Dr. Deloney up, Daniel? How we doing? Pretty good. How you doing, Dr. Deloney? Good, man. Good, good, good. So what's up? So I guess my main question I have for you is how do I deal with the disgust I have toward my dad?

Oh, man, right when you said how do I, I started to sing that song, but this is actually a serious question, man. How do I, I started to sing that song, but this is actually a serious question, man. How do I live? So, um, tell me what's like, uh, why are you disgusted with your dad? Well, first of all, I got to say the story is like an onion. There's just layer upon layer upon layer. So I'll, I'll try to tell pretty much everything in under a couple minutes or so. Cool. So I'm 29. I'm a husband, father of three. My dad is a sex addiction therapist. Two years ago, he cheated on my mom with one of his clients in his office.

At the time, he was 63 years old. She was 29. So as a result, my mom divorced my dad. They were married for 43 years. And there's some important details about his mistress. So after this all happened, I learned that she served an eight-year prison sentence for sexual enticement of a minor. And after she served her prison time, she was ordered by a judge to receive psychotherapy, which is why she was seeing my dad. So the story behind why she went to prison in the first place is that at one point, she was working as a prostitute and exposed herself to two 12-year-old boys.

So it gets worse. So when she was young, she was in a car accident and it left her with some residual brain damage. So I've met her in person and she still struggles with some executive brain function. I'm not a psychologist, but, um, I would say she has the cognitive function of a 13 year old person probably, which just adds to how unethical this was. So shockingly, my dad, uh, decided to marry this woman. Um, and even to this day, he doesn't really believe that he's done anything unethical. He justifies it by saying that it was consensual. So, um, I will say that there he's been reported to the licensing division and, uh, there's an

investigation going on right now. So here's, here's what I really need help with. Um, so I, obviously I feel a lot of disgust towards my dad and really the entire situation. I feel a lot of resentment and I feel abandoned and betrayed, but if I'm really honest with myself, I also miss him deeply for my life and my kids' lives as well. So I haven't spoken to him in about five months and I'm just wondering where do I go from here? I'm sorry, man. On 50 different counts, I'm sorry.

This is a messy situation that is much simpler than it feels and much heavier than you probably think it's going to be over the long term. Okay. The chance that this was the first time this happened is virtually zero. Oh, I know it's not the first time it's happened.

Okay. All right. So it's very rare that somebody who deals in the intimacy of other people's lives who is a person of this kind of character wouldn't have done this multiple times and that you will you you get four or five drinks and your mom she might tell you all about some stories that have happened along the years right um yeah here's the deal that's not going to change where you find yourself you find yourself disgusted with a guy let me tell you where a lot of us don't realize how deep this disgust goes because as much as we don't want to think about it or believe it or we don't even consider it we all know deep down that half of us

is mom and half of us is dad and if he is capable of this what am am I capable of? Because I'm part of him and he's part of me. Right? And it's unnerving. It makes it particularly close. And then you throw in on top the confusion of, I actually like the guy and I miss him being around, but he's also disgusting. And then you just find yourself in this vortex, right?

Yeah. So here's the heartbreaking thing. He has opted out of your life not the other way around yeah i think that's true he opted out of your mom's life he opted out of your life um and he's thrown away his entire career he's going to be found guilty right we know that uh he'll be found guilty because they're going to take his text messages they're going to take his uh emails they're going to take all of his clinical records and probably dig up the times this has happened in the past so it's the the it will be a hurricane cha-cha storm diarrhea storm coming down the road um and he walked into

it all right and i have a very little sympathy for somebody in his case because people come to him and they're most vulnerable and they come to him with a particularly vulnerable thing which is I'm addicted to relationship right and he abused that and so I I don't got a lot I'm disgusted by him too let me say that um yeah and I mean that's that's why I view her as a victim really in this situation absolutely on some level. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, she went to a professional for help and took advantage of that help. So the thing you can do is walk away.

And after you walk away, any choice you make to go back and be redisgusted and redisgusted is a choice you're making to be more miserable in the present i wouldn't do that yeah you know what i mean there's no sense in poisoning yourself you do have to reckon with um that guy's part of me and what am i doing in my life that could ever even have a uh uh the faintest trail into the woods that would lead me down a path like this? Mm-hmm. Is there anything in yourself that makes you uncomfortable or is this just your dad off the rails? I think it's mainly just my dad, you know? Okay.

Often when our parents do things, there's echoes inside of us. Yeah. I think what makes it particularly difficult is It often, when our parents do things, there's echoes inside of us. Yeah. I think what makes it particularly difficult is growing up, I always thought of him as, for the most part, a really good father teaching good values. And so after this has happened, it's sort of like, well, was all that fake? Was all that an act? You know, like that's, those are the thoughts that are going through my mind. Like were those things that I was even taught, was it even real? Because the person who taught it to me just totally went the opposite direction, you know?

And you're 29 right now? Yeah. You'd be having these thoughts anyway. Like 20, 27, 28 to 33 35 that's when you start pulling the thread on is this real and you because you start moving up the professional ladder and you look behind the curtain and you realize oh my boss doesn't know what he's doing at all and you your doctor has a different conversation they're like i don't know man i gotta go check with a colleague and you think i thought y'all know everything right so this is

the season when everything, like your friend gets fired or your wife gets fired or something like that. So this is the season when everything starts unwinding a little bit. And then the thing you were anchored into, the man that you anchored into, turns out he wasn't concrete.

He's just a mist, right? And the temptation is to throw everything out. Don't do that. If he gave you good wisdom and good values, even though he wasn't using them, honor those things, right? Yeah. But you're married? Yeah. Okay.

You ever cheat on your wife? No. Don't. Okay? Okay. You ever cheat on your wife? No. Don't. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I won't. I know, but don't. Yeah. We learn our behaviors, right? Right.

And cheating starts with keeping secrets. And cheating starts with flirting here in the office. And cheating starts, right? See what I'm saying? So I want you to hold the thread on those. You're, you're,

you're suddenly going, uh, uh, these are when our parents screw up, it echoes through us. Okay. Not to say that you're some, a sex criminal,

which is what I think your dad is, but, uh, you do, um, you do have these echoes in your own soul okay and man you're gonna have to walk away he left you and now you're just standing there you gotta go be about your life and i know that's so hard man here's the way like tactically here's how we do this number one you're gonna write him a letter okay and i it might Number one, you're going to write him a letter. Okay. And I, it might be one that you consider mailing to him. Okay.

Normally we write these letters and it's not one of rage and anger and some, out of some, some superiority. It's out, but feel free to let him know. Like you broke my heart, man,

because you didn't tell the truth and you've been cheating on mom for years and you left mom for somebody who's psychologically not well, it's cognitive deficiencies. And you chose to walk away from my family and let him know. I mean, put it in writing until you make different choices and here's what those are going to be. You've opted out of being around my family and your grandkids and fill in the blank and I'm going to miss you terribly. And I hate that you made these choices and, um, let them know. But my thought is if you sat down and had a conversation with him, he's probably good enough on his feet and you would leave that pretty confused is that right yeah we've had those

conversations before and it just feels as if nothing really sticks he's a good he's probably a good talker yeah he can loop you up and spin in circles right yeah that's what he does yeah yeah that's his career that's his craft that's who he is right I'd write it down, man. And then at some point you're going to have to write yourself a letter. You to you and be really upset, be really honest about the good stuff he gave you and then be really clear about what you're going to do next. Yeah. Okay. Is that fair? Yeah. And then some days you're going to wake up and just miss him like crazy. And that's what your boundaries are for. You're not going to reach out. You're not going to text him. You're going to have somebody else to call. You're going to call your wife.

You're going to have already thought that through. And some days you're going to wake up and be so enraged and pissed off. Or some days you're going to wake up and your mom's going to have texted you. And just like with a long text or a short text, and it's going to break your heart and you're going to get so pissed. And all of those feelings are okay. The real question is, what are you going to do after that? Right. Right. And when those feelings pop into your head and you have those moments more than five seconds on them is a choice i'm going to just choose to i'm going to make cereal

and i'm just going to pee in it just because i'm just going to eat that for breakfast it's just a it's just a strange bizarre choice or when those lightning bolts pop into our head, we can go, oh my gosh, that guy's the worst. My wife is incredible. I'm so grateful for this home that I live in. I'm so grateful I'm sitting in an office right now. I'm a fortunate guy. And then we're going to go about our day that way. And that's something you're going to practice over time.

It's going to be hard. Sorry this happened to you, man. I can't imagine finding this out about my father. I can't because I'm anchored into him. I'm anchored into him. I can't imagine finding this out. I'm sorry this happened. It's very simple. You got to have the boundaries. It's going to be very, very hard over a long period of time. Holler at me as you go, man. I'm here to walk with you. We'll be right back. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel.

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and cap your interest rate for 90 days. Then you'll get a $5,000 seller guarantee to help your offer stand out. So go ahead, take a deep breath because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillemortgage.com slash Deloney and get the home buyer edge today. All right, we're back. Let's go to Lola in Knoxville, Tennessee. What's up, Lola? Dr. John, I was so excited when y'all selected me because I'm in such a pickle and you're so smart. So thanks for taking my call. I like pickles and I'm not that smart.

So one out of two ain't so bad. So what's up? Okay. So I'm in a pickle. What have you done? What have you done, Lola? Oh, did you really do something? This is so great.

Oh, I can't wait. Okay, what is it? Okay, so my husband and I have this amazing 15-month-old boy that we adore. And my mother-in-law and father-in-law live six houses down from us. And when I was pregnant, my mother-in-law hated her job and we needed childcare. So we begged her to retire and watch. I already know. I already know.

You're the worst, Lola. The worst. I mean, I was like, oh, this is perfect. And I work from home. And so it was going to be this, just this great setup. Um, so she agreed. Um, but she said, I'm taking an $1,800 a month hit by retiring early at 62 instead of 67. And she said, unfortunately, I'm just going to need some money to, to, um, to live. And so we agreed and like happily I agreed and we pay her $600 a month and she relies on that income. Um, and so it was just like, it was just the stars aligned.

And so fast forward, the worst Lola, this is like a slow moving train wreck that we all know how this part of the movie ends. I know. Well, I know. Okay. So keep going. You're not the worst by the way. Um, okay. Keep going. So fast forward. Um, I, yeah, I've been back at work for a year and, um, I see, I guess the part that I didn't incorporate in my equation was, um, I'm not like I need knew I would need childcare, but I didn't think about how I would actually want to spend time with my son. Um, that like, that just wasn't even like a thought. And so, um, now I am, um, going like every break that I get, I start as late as I can. I finish as early as I can. His bedtime is eight 30 and he naps for three to three and a half hours in the

middle of the day so that I can have more awake time with him at night. Like I'm always clawing at time with him. Um, and I am, and I'm working full time now I work from home and my job, I love my job. I've been here for seven and a half years and I like, I love everything about it. It gives me so much purpose and I make, I mean, I make good money too. And so, um, but I'm just so tired and, um, and, and my husband and I, you know, we really want to move out to the burbs and have like, you know, like a pool and walking trails. We can't do that because, I mean, I'm not going to drive to and from the suburbs every day and drop him off. That's going to be like a two-hour commute.

I'm not doing that. Lola, this has nothing to do with your mother-in-law. What does it have to do with? You. Well, I mean, do you think that I'm just being... I think you have I think you are a mother of a 15 year old son and you love him very much and you had a very clear plan of what was going to happen next and that plan is in ash because you looked at those two little those two little eyes of that sweet little boy and everything blew up so I'm missing three hours of wake time a day with him. So my husband says, is this really worth

giving up partially or all of your salary? And then like, what do we do with my mother-in-law? I mean, she needs much. She needs our income. That's your husband. Men tend to solve problems with spreadsheets. Okay. Right. And especially your husband and your mother-in-law, yeah, she's in a mess Like, she's kind of getting hosed here There's no getting around that You are experiencing in real time The hell that is modern American motherhood Which is you cannot win

It is a guilt factory. If you go to work full time and make $500,000, someone's, not someone, you, you're going to look in the mirror and go, what kind of mother are you? And then you say, you're right. I'm sacrificing all this for my kid. You're going to quit.

And then you're going to stare at that little lump and go, what have I done? Who am I? I'm not even contributing. I'm such a loser. And there's, and then you're going to go to Facebook or Instagram or Pinterest to make yourself feel better. And then you're just going to want to set yourself on fire to see if your makeup is flammable, right? There's no way out. You're just in it now. This is so accurate. Like, yes. And so this has your mother-in-law. Yes. she's going to be a casualty of whatever happens here, but she's not the problem. The problem is you want it all and you want it all right now.

And gosh, you had it on a plan. It was on my manifest board and it's what it's going to look like. And it's not going to happen that way. Would I be putting, I'm worried about putting. Yes. Do you know what our question is going to be? I don't even, I don't care what the question is going to. Do you know what my question is going to be? I don't even, I don't care what the question is going to be. I know what the answer is going to be.

What's your question? I worry in this economy on putting like all of the financial responsibility on my husband. And then now he's going to have to worry about his, I mean, what do I do? So I think you do it in a particular order. Okay. Do I quit my job like you're telling me to? No, no, no. Do I get a part time?

I'm about to ask you, are you going to quit your job? Take all of the pools. Take all of the I shoulds and shouldn'ts. Take all that junk, all that crap off the table. Take all of the mother-in-law. Is my husband going to have to actually take all that junk, all that crap off the table? Take all of the mother-in-law is my husband going to have to actually take all that off? Are you going to quit your job?

Well, I mean like that's dependent on the answer to those questions. It's not though. It's not. Those questions are dependent on that answer. And here's the thing. There's not a right or wrong to it. There's a seasonal response and you my good friend are so good at clouding up

simple questions with noise because that's how you get through all hard things so you're so good at it like I need to have a hard conversation with my husband but I can make a good dinner and we can go do this and it'll be fun we'll go to the show and then

it will just go away it doesn't ever go away I mean I just I just I feel like I can't win you can't you can't that's why you just got to go forward you got to do the best thing right now and that thing by the way will change and it might mean what do we do with my mother-in-law though do we like i mean i think i think the ethical fair thing is to give her a pretty long

runway yeah if anybody in the world would understand i'm a mom and i feel like i'm watching my son's life slip through my fingers while i'm here typing away on design spreadsheets or something i don't know what you do for a living but like i i feel like i'm missing it um whatever it is, right? And by the way, it is insanely boring. Maddeningly boring. What, like being a mom, being a stay-at-home mom? Oh my gosh. I mean, unfathomably boring. And it's right.

Do you think I would be trading, like, what a lot of people at my company, there's, I have a lot of moms on my team that did come back to work. And the reason they did was because we all have similar situations where it's just like, it's not like we have to sit in traffic for two hours a day and we don't like, it's not like we're only seeing two hours a day with them.

Like I see a lot of him. I just, I don't see. What are you missing? I'm missing three to four hours a day of wake time. Okay. And, and because I have to put him down so late to get that wake time, I feel like, I mean, I'm just so tired because I feel like I'm doing two full-time jobs. Like, I see six to seven hours a day of him awake.

He's only awake for, like, whatever, nine. But some of this is very, very seasonal. You're talking, like, six more months. What do you mean? Like, in just a few more months, he's going to start napping way, way less and be way more all over the place. And then in a year and a half, he's going to start napping way, way less and be way more all over the place. And then in a year and a half, he's going to be in a Tuesday, Thursday school. And then in two more years or three more years, he's going to be in kindergarten.

It goes so fast. And so, like right now, you are making a very static, long-term decision on a very fluid situation. So I'm wondering if I could just add, what if I dropped down to part-time men? You are, I'm not, you, you have spit your entire,

how many people did you ask if your husband was the right guy to marry? Probably a thousand. Um, well, the first two years when we were dating, yes. Like every single thing that came up, I had advice from my girlfriends Yes, can we get a coffee? We got to talk

Let's go talk, let's go get a drink, I got to talk Yes, you, Lola, I'm not taking this from you You're going to have to be all growed up But you're John Deloney Exactly, I'm not going to take your decision Because here's why You also blame everybody when you do take their advice and you got to own this one. Right. You know what? Whenever I was on

maternity leave, I told my husband, I said, I cannot imagine like, I love my job, but like, what, I'm not going to have 24 hours a day with him. Like, what am I going to be doing during this time? And so I said, can I just take like 18 months off until he becomes a toddler? Because when he's a toddler, it's like more work and whatever. And he like mansplained me out of it. But my mother-in-law heard that I was considering it. And so she texted him and said, Hey, is Lola going to, going to take some time off? Because if so, I'm just going to push my, I'm going to push my retirement back. I can't afford to retire without this. And so then he like mansplained me out of it. He was like, but this and this and this and this, and you can see him during your breaks and you know, look at all of this future that you can provide and whatever. And so I like when I, I,

I didn't. And also like all the consequences of, I'm in a senior level position at work and it's like, I haven't made and all of this stuff. And so I knew about it. And so when you say blaming others, I mean, I did tell him before she was actually retired, like, Hey, like, I don't know if I, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to get my baby up. And you know, he talked me out of it and I'm like still feeling the same thing I was feeling a year ago. And you're right. Like, I just feel time, a little bit of his time slipping through, but then also like, I see so much little, like, I see, um, like my entire life revolves around him. Cause when you're a working mom, like I don't get my nails done anymore. I know. I know. But listen, listen, this, this is, this is it. Here's what you haven't done yet. Um um you've probably heard me say this on the show

before and i'll say it again when when my wife got pregnant with hank my my 12 year old i literally started a clock like okay nine to ten months and i'll get my wife back and what that meant was not that she didn't go anywhere and she was still awesome. We're still having fun. But like in nine or 10 months, like, like the disco lights come back on. We can just make out in the middle of the night if we want to, we can just go like, Hey, let's just go to Denny's. It's 2am. I know. Let's just do it. Like, like we had this life. Let's just drive to Dallas and go to a concert. Let's do it.

Like we had this life and I kept waiting until that life could, would come back. And it wasn't until my son, cause I'm a hardheaded moron. It wasn't until I was, he was eight or nine or 10 and I'd almost blown up everything that I realized, oh, that life is over. It doesn't exist anymore. And you haven't done that yet So I'm just going to be perpetually exhausted For the next 18 years Congratulations Welcome to parenthood

Listen, when I told my dad Hey dad, I'm having a baby He said Well, you're never going to sleep again That was the first thing he said Because he's a brilliant pragmatist. So, yes, you're going to be tired for the rest of days. Yes.

You know why? Even if I quit my job and I don't have to work and I just have to hold him, I'll still be tired. And I just have him, I'll still be tired. You are smarter than the answers. Yes. Yes. In the booth, all the parents back here are dying laughing. They're all laughing. Yes. Yes. I just want to watch a TV yes. Yes. In the booth, all the parents back here are dying laughing. They're all laughing.

Yes. Yes. I just want to watch a TV show. Nope. You can. In 2048, you can watch whatever show you want to. Oh, my gosh. Whatever show you want to.

And here's what's so, hey, can I tell you what's so great about this? You're about three months away from one, either you or your husband being like, you want to have another one and be like, yep. My husband is refusing to have another. He said he's totally done. He said under no circumstances, we're totally done.

Okay. Can I be super like, I've been laughing with you cause I know this is miserable. And I also know like, like here, here's me being very serious. Um, you and your husband are not on the same page and this is a recipe for a mess

down the road. And you are super fun and you'd be really fun to like get beers with and hang out. I can already, I can tell you, you're fun, but you avoid hard conversations with him and you cave and there's going to come a point when that caving is going to turn into a nightmare. Yeah. I mean, he's just, he, um, he is, um, he should have been an attorney. Like he is so good at making his point and it makes so much sense. Um, and so, yeah, but you're not, you and your son's relationship is not a spreadsheet.

It's not a problem to solve your financial situation. If you quit an incredible job, might be a financial problem to solve, but that comes on the back end of what's right right now. And you keeping your job and finding ways, I guarantee it. I guarantee it. There are ways for you to rest in this season. It's going to take a, you're going to have to back out and say, what has to go? Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what that is. I know.

And you want to do everything all at the same time. You just can't. And so it sounds to me like you have the greatest possible situation, which is I've got somebody that I trust who I actually love. Who's not a maniac taking care of my kid inside my house that I can see him all the time. And I'm making a killer salary. And that's when you and your husband need to go out and stop doing a, Hey, here's a feeling I have. Here's a concern I have. Boom. Here's a spreadsheet answer.

Like you can't live like that. This is what we do. I know, but here's, what's going to happen. You're going to go on a business conference and someone's going to listen to you for the first time and nothing's going to happen. And you're going to text or you're going to get their email address and say, Hey, it was great to talk to you. And now you're off somewhere else. That's how that happens. Or your husband's going to get not like the person he becomes because he's trying to make love to a spreadsheet and he's going to begin to want to become a different person. This is how this happens. Okay. And you a hundred percent know I'm right. Okay. So I just, I have one big, big concern with quitting my job completely or at least one more.

Okay. Serious question. One more. My dad died of a heart attack because he was working so much because my, my step-mom milked him for every penny that he had. And then my husband's dad died like very similarly, like ex-wife, baby mama, drama, child support, all of that. And so like, I mean, would I be putting his health at risk or like, you know, like by eliminating, I mean, we could, we would be fine with if I quit or drop down to part-time, but like, I just feel guilty, like, especially in peak inflation and all of that. I mean, what do you think about the added pressure on a man to

like, like have to support a family? I would say that my wife made an incredible income when she was a fancy research professor. And then when I wasn't well, and we took a $70,000 household income pay cut, 70 grand, and we moved to a new town so I could work with a smaller group of students and get my head screwed back on. And she worked part-time there.

And she worked part-time and volunteered and was a writer and whatever else she did. And I struggled, A, just because of the math, because I wanted to look at the spreadsheet and I had some financial goals and I got tired of driving her old Corolla around, right? And I was making a great salary as the dean of students at a law school, I was making a great salary as the chief student affairs officer at college X and Y, but it wasn't manifesting, It wasn't playing out in my life because I was the only guy, right?

Yeah. And then here's what happened. I got my wife back. I got my life back. I got my kids back. And there is no dollar amount for that. I'll drive a Corolla till the end of time. Yeah.

See what I'm saying? But it also took us going to counseling and learning how to have a new kind of time. Yeah. See what I'm saying? But it also took us going to counseling and learning how to have a new kind of relationship. It also took several years of us and several near misses to recalibrate our marriage because it was just super different. It was a different marriage than the one that we had when we first got married.

It was just a totally different one. Yeah. And so that's the work ahead of you. It's in, in here's the thing, you're going to quit your job and you're going to be so frustrated that you're broke or that you have to drive old cars or that you can't move or you might have to move.

You might have to downsize. Well, he would just need to stop playing golf. Like as much as he normally does. That's really like, like it's fine. It's just, he is. Lola stop playing golf as much as he normally does. That's really like, it's fine. It's just he is just- Lola, Lola, Lola, Lola, Lola. This is 100%.

This is you caught in the system. That's the air, right? There's no getting around that. Y'all need to go talk to somebody. Okay. I'm just telling you. And he's going to say, why? What?

Oh, you want me to play golf? Fine. I'll quit playing. That's not it. It's not it. It's not it. It's beneath that. It's that you have a picture of what this whole thing is supposed to look like,

and it's not going to happen. And he has a picture of what it's going to look like, and it's not going to happen. And he has a picture of what it's going to look like, and it's not going to happen. It's not. And that is the beauty of being married. And that's the beauty of it all, like of playing forward is you don't know how it's going to wrap up, but it's not going to be this. And so you can do one of two things. You can just keep trying to make this thing happen until you crash this sucker into the ditch. Or you can say, all right, that picture's over. That was a blast. Now we got to do something new. And in this new picture, you're going to play less golf and be around more. In this new picture, we're going to cut our expenses by 25%. I'm going to sell the new car and I'm going to buy an old car that can get me to and from. And by the way, you can put two or three car seats in a Corolla. Nobody's

going to die, right? You're going to look ridiculous and you're going to be like, have to squish and squeeze and lean over and all that. It's frustrating, but you can be just fine. Okay. So why am I saying that? You can cut expenses, Lola. It's deciding we want this over this. And this over this is an admission that we can't have everything all the time right now. It just is. It just is.

I don't think you should quit your job if I'm just inserting this. I don't think you should quit your job because I think you love your job. I think your marriage is a mess i think your marriage is messier than you want to admit it and i think that is making the ground you walk on very unstable because you're a year plus into this new marriage with a kid and all of a sudden you feel things starting to slip through your fingers and you are a control person. Husbands, you can't love your wives and spreadsheets all the time. Sometimes, yes.

But most of the time, it's best just to sit and listen. Say, tell me what we're working through. I'm grateful for you, Lola. Thank you so, so much for the call. Holler back at me when you decide what to do. I'm going to hear how this one ends. We'll be right back. All right, we're back.

Let's go to the buff. Buffalo, New York. Dr. Jerry. What's up, Jerry? Hi, Dr. D. How are you? Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm upright and breathing, so it's a good day.

That's a good one. Excellent. What's happening? What's up? Oh, I am having issues with my adult daughter. Okay. The last few years, it's gotten way worse. We have constant blowups, and then we'll sit down down and talk and things will be better for a while. Um,

I find myself walking on eggshells around her, but you know, we kind of get through it. Um, is she an addict? Does she use? No, not at all. Um, she's very, very angry. Um, why is she angry with you? um my ex-husband um when she was growing up they had a relationship where they were either really getting along or they really weren't and he uh they were in an argument one day and he pushed her and she feels I didn't do anything about it. She's right. I, I should

have left right then and there. Um, Oh, but well, I, the last time that we had this, um, a blow up, the blow ups are over other things, but it always goes back to, you know, deep down, she's angry with me and I get it. And've apologized and I've offered to you know I've asked her to please go to counseling because I you know I use your analogy of you're drinking poison waiting for him to die it's just it's crazy so um it's gotten even worse in the last year and a half um she left her Um, she was got really angry because we were all friends with him. So our point was, well, he's the father of our grandchild. So, so we gave in and none of us are friends with him anymore. You know, we, we keep our distance. Uh,

um, but every time we have these blow-ups she won't let me see the grandchildren why do you keep having blow-ups with her um it's always always something like the the slightest thing will just set her off I know but you know those things why Why do you engage her? Yes. Why? I don't think I do. Like I told you, I tiptoe around her and I hate that feeling, but I know what sets her off. The problem is she has a very, very good relationship with my husband. She doesn't have a good relationship with her dad. She confides in my husband and I love seeing her have somebody like that.

But I think him and I have been talking the last couple weeks because I'm really at a crossroads. I don't know what to do. I think he fuels the fire. He doesn't understand. He says little things to her that I would never. I confide in him. And then I don't think he means to leak things to her. But the things that I know are going to set her off. An example is she asked me to go to dinner with her a couple months ago, which we used to do everything together when she was little.

I mean, we baked, we exercised, we shopped, we did everything together. I was there for both of the kids. I was in the room when both of them were born. Um, but like a couple of months ago, she had asked me to go out to dinner. And like I said, we've been strained the last, you know, two or three years. So I said to my husband, I'm like, I'm like, that's kind of, uh, I'm like, it's nice. Yes. I want to go to dinner. I'm like, and, uh, you know, I was hoping for good things. Well, he said something to her that, you know, he's like, I don't know why you, you two questioning each other. So then she got mad at me because I questioned why she wanted to go out to dinner. So your husband is not at fault here.

Okay. Yeah. No, he's very much a fixer. I know, I know, but let me just... I want you just to settle in for a second, okay? Mm-hmm. Yep. Whether she knows it or not,

there's still a little girl in there wondering, what was it about that guy that was more important than me when I was little? Right? Why did my mom pick him over me? And the way even the way you said that, that when things were good, they were so good. And they were bad, they were really bad. When that happens with a kid kid there is no real good and that usually is somebody trying to balance out their inaction or excuse some of their inaction okay you said it you're right you should have left you should have left before we pushed her. But here we are. I also know, not firsthand, but I've sat with enough people to know the fear of being a single parent, the economic insecurity.

I understand the plight women have to go through to eat some – I get it. It's a mess. And it's easy to look back 25 or 30 years later and go, I should have, I should have, I should have. And in the middle of it, you start to think, well, the next stop is the back of our station wagon and I don't have it right. And so here we are now and we used to do everything together.

Cool, that is in the past. And the more you go back to there, you are choosing to drink poison. We gotta be right here right now. You're walking on eggshells around her is a anxiety response. She cannot anchor into you because you're not fully present. You keep secrets from her. You don't tell her the truth.

You don't tell her everything. And when you don't, she knows it. She knows she's being angry and unreasonable and annoying and frustrated. She knows that. And she also knows mom's not telling me the truth. And mom's still trying to treat me like I'm 10. Think about it. She left. Let me say it this way. You might think you're a safe place her behavior is telling us all that you she does not see that right okay so the goal is less how do i get her to do what i want the goal is how do i become a safe place for her not a doormat

how do i become a safe place and and that's what I'm looking for. I don't have the tools to, you know, our last pull up. I told, you know, she's very much a yeller. And I told her, you know, I understand if you're upset with me, but please sit down and talk to me. So we did. We sat and talked for three hours. And I thought we really got to a much better place. And I told her, I can't go back and fix anything. I was a young mother. I had no idea what I was doing. That's right. I said, I can't fix any of that. But what I can do is do better going forward.

And here's the hard part. Here's the hard part. Yeah. What you just said is gold. It's the hard part. Here's the hard part. Yeah. What you just said is, is gold. It's such a gift. And that's the extent of what you can do. And if she chooses to not plug back in, that's a choice she's making. Right. And it hurts like bloody hell.

It does. It does because I want to be a good grandmother you know of course of course and the things i you know that i made a million mistakes when my kids are growing up um i have a very good relationship with my son um don't don't compare the op no no i i don't i don't want to do that i i want to fix for her and i i want to be there for her i you know i i don't want to do that. I want a fix for her and I. I want to be there for her. I don't want to see her hurting like this. I mean, she's definitely hurting, and I hate seeing that. And the other thing is every time she knows the one thing that she can get to me with is these grandchildren, and they're seeing this.

And they're looking. I can't get through to her that they're seeing how to treat a mother. You know, when they get older, I don't want to see them doing this to you and your trait showing them how to be, you know, what to be to women and their future wives. That's true. But flip around the other side. I've been really frustrated with my parents before. Real frustrated, actually. I've never once thought I need to keep my kids from them.

Exactly. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. It could be that she's evil. She's just evil. And she's weaponizing her children to get back at her mother for something her mother did 25 years ago. I don't think that's the case. I think that she doesn't think you're safe.

Okay. I can agree with that. And so let's don't demonize her, even if she's doing stupid things. Okay. Let's go back to the basics, the OG basics. What can you control? Your thoughts and your actions. That's it.

That's it. You cannot control this young girl. You've been trying her whole life and you can't. And you also can't go back and undo what happened. It happened. You got to own it. And you have, which is impressive. But what you haven't done is started trying to write something new.

You keep going, trying to go back and edit it. I know, right? got it happened it is and these grandkids are not your redemption story they're not your do-over they're new they're new people and so i would sit down and really map out what are my boundaries and a gift for her that's not going to feel like a gift at first is saying, hey, I'm not going to do blowups with you anymore. I love you too much. And I'm not interested in going to war with you. I'm interested in loving you and being a safe place. You've never been a safe place. I know.

I know. But I'm working on it now. And so when you raise your voice, that's you choosing to end a conversation with me. Okay. And these three-hour marathons feel so cathartic, but they're not accomplishing anything. Okay. Are they?

I thought. You feel better. You feel better. Yeah. But when you're talking to somebody in fight or flight, you're not. They're calming down, but there's no resolution. Okay. And a lot of times the resolution after one of those three-hour marathon talks is people are exhausted.

They're tired. They're dropping their shoulders for the first time in a long time because their bodies aren't at war. And then the next – you got to do those things you you you got to teach your body over time there's not this one big conversation that's going to accomplish everything but again you're trying to find the right thing to say trying to find the right thing to do trying to find your daughter feels that you're trying to puppet master still after all these years. And it's going to be you saying, I'm just not going to do that anymore.

I love you too much. I love those kids too much. I love you. I'm not going to fight you. Yeah, I can feel the anxiety when we're together. And it never used to be like that. But I want you to take full ownership. I have found myself getting anxious around my own daughter and yes you should be the one safe place for me besides my husband

and that's on me i'm gonna stop being anxious around you but that also means you're gonna stop you i'm not i'm just gonna choose to opt out when you yell because i'm i'm worth more than that and i'm gonna choose to opt out when you swear at me. And if you choose to take the Karen kids away, I'm going to choose to have my heart broken, but I'm not going to fight you. I'm just not going to fight you anymore. Well, and

that's where I'm at. Like, I'm not okay not seeing these grandkids for, you know, 10 years. But you don't get a vote, Jerry. No. You know what I mean? Yeah. you don't get a vote, Jerry. No, you know what I mean? Yeah. You don't get a vote.

And my husband, you know, he's, he's pushing me to reach back out to her, but, and I want to, and I told him, I said, I know this sounds cheesy,

but before I reach back out to her, I feel like I need to work on me a little bit. Like there's, this is just a cycle that I just, I want to get out of. So maybe you, you can do both. It's not either or. Okay. Maybe you reach out and say, um, even take a disproportionate amount of the blame.

Okay. But I would have a conversation with her. That's really somewhat Jerry centcentric, very you-centered. Okay. I'm sorry how I've acted. And I'm your mom, and I feel anxious around you, and I'm not doing that anymore because I love you too much. This isn't war. You're my daughter.

And I'm committed to my own growth. I can't change you. I can't change your decisions to take the kids away, but I can become a safer place. And by becoming a safer place, I'm going to have boundaries. And if you don't like the boundaries, that's fine. But I'm just not going to fight you anymore. And I'm going to see my own counselor. I'm going to go work on me and I love for you to come with me. And if you don't want to, great. Yeah. Cool.

But here's the thing. She will naturally be drawn to you like a tractor beam. The more stable and safe and firm you feel. Okay. Okay. The more you're trying to have a new plan and you read a new book and read a new Instagram post and you're going to fix her on that. Dude, she can feel it a hundred miles away. Okay.

Think about how much more peaceful of a life you're going to have. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing. I'm at a crossroads. I can't feel like this anymore. Set the swords down. Just set them down.

Yeah. No more fighting. I'm not going to do blowups. I'm not going to do war. I'm not going to do any of it. I will be gut-wrenched if you don't let me see the kids. But I also know they're your kids, and I can't fight you over them. And if they're ever being abused or unsafe, I'm going to call every authority I have.

But you don't have to bring that up in this conversation. Right, right. And no, I mean, it's not a situation like that. I just, it's exhausting. It's exhausting. And I know it's exhausting for her too. And I want to be able to help her. Like she works full time and she does very well.

She's, you know, but I want to be able to help her. You know, if she needs a couple hours. She's not asking for your help. I know. You have to reconcile that. The more you try to insert yourself into her life, the more it's just going to be an electrified situation. The more you become a safe place,

the more you're going to end up seeing those grandkids place the more you're going to end up seeing those grandkids the more you're going to end up seeing her and the more y'all are going to be able to heal your relationship okay does that make sense it does i heard over the weekend i don't know how much truth this is um i was at an event in pho Phoenix and somebody was telling me that, um, I think it was, I think it's where I think anyway, it doesn't matter where I heard it. Um, that member of Gorbachev and,

uh, Ronald Reagan, when they were figuring out communism and capitalism and, and they, they were meeting and they were in a heated, heated argument about how stupid your capitalism is and how damaging your communism is, back and forth, back and forth in the room.

They said it was getting hotter and hotter and hotter. Like two egotistical world leaders getting ready to get pushed over the edge, right? And out of nowhere, they said, Reagan disengages and walks away, which is a very strange move. And they said he walked away and was gone for a minute and then circled back and walked back in

with a huge smile on his face and an outstretched hand, like to shake his hand. And he said something like, hey, Mikey, my name's Ronnie. How are you doing? And they both, it was the tent they both started laughing And he reset it I'm not fighting you

We got to be friends. Yeah That's the only way this thing works moving forward, right or everybody ends up in ash And again, I don't know how much of that story is folklore I don't know much that story is real but the sentiment behind it is true There comes a moment when we get so angry and so frustrated, we fall over the edge. And before you fall over the edge, you're the adult, you're the mom, you're the parent. She's an adult too, but you're the parent. I'm stepping away. I'm going to circle back. I'm going to take my time. I'm going to take a breath. I'm going to come back in with a smile and say,

this is different from this point forward and you are going to sleep better because you're tired of war too right? yeah and that's what I meant by I need to work on me I mean obviously I'm you know pushing buttons and you're right I try to edit the past and I'm the one that told her I can't do that I can't fix any of it

but I can do better going forward and I still go to the past and your going forward is A I still go to the past. But, and you're going forward is a trying to erase the past and rewrite it. Can't do that. You're going forward is you trying to acutely insert yourself into her life, which she has not asked for you trying to give her parenting advice and mothering advice and help. I'll help you. I'll help you. I'm not asking for your help. I just want my mom. Yeah. And you have a picture in your head of what grandmas are supposed to be doing with their kids. And that's not the picture that your daughter has.

And if you want to be in a relationship with her and your grandkids, her picture is the one that's going to matter. It's like when somebody says, hey, my kids decided they're not coming up for Christmas. I'm so ticked off. I'm pissed. I'm going to call them. Why? Because they're not going to come for Christmas either. Yeah. And that's it. All of that is an antidote to sitting down to not wanting to sit down and go, I'm really sad that my kids aren't going to be here for

Thanksgiving. My Thanksgiving is going to look different. Now I'm going to have to invite people over and it's going to be kind of boring or weird. I've got to deal with the reality part and so I'd love to see you create an anti-war document that is full of your boundaries here's what I'm not going to tolerate you can't cuss at me you can't just show up here in the middle of the night if I find out you're using or the kids aren't safe I'm going to call you on it

here's my boundaries and then I think your husband's right reach out but the reaching out is a declaration of peace and it's a declaration of I'm changing and I love you. And here's the deal, that's all you got left. And everybody listening to this, if you find yourself like,

Jerry, what you're talking about is so common. It's common in marriages, it's common between parents and young kids. It's just turns into this cycle of, I will defeat you. I will solve you. I will, I've got bigger muscles than you. I, I've got more power than you. And it just ends in ashes. And at some point, someone's got to back out and just say, hey, control alt delete, reset. I'm not going to war with you anymore. I'm choosing a path of peace. And here's what this is going to look like. And you'll sleep and they'll sleep. And that is the soil of new trees. I'm proud of you, Jerry. It's going to be tough because you're going to have to unlearn a whole bunch of actions. You're going to have to learn how to breathe. You're going to have to learn how

to get up and walk away. You're going to have to learn how to breathe. You're going to have to learn how to get up and walk away. You're going to have to learn how to get in the car and not have had the last word. And you're also going to have to learn how to be a grandma because you're going to start seeing those kids more and more, the safer your daughter feels around you. You can do this. You can do this. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever

life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back and we're wrapping it up today. The song of the day is by The Great Coin. Yep, the band's called Coin. Not coins, just one, one coin. And the song is Talk Too Much, and it goes like this. Caffeine, small talk, wait out the plastic weather.

Mmm, ugh, discussing current events. I'll take my time, I'm not the forward thinker. You read my mind, better to leave it unsaid. Why can't I leave it unsaid? You know I talk too much. Honey, come put your lips on mine and shut me up. We could blame it all on human nature. Stay cool, it's just a kiss kiss why you gotta be so talkative I

talk too much we talk too much lucky for you America I don't talk to you I talk so way too much for more of me talking too much we'll see you next time