The Dr. John Delony Show - What is Considered Child Abuse? Immature Parents, & Setting Boundaries w/ Family

Episode Date: April 9, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU!   Show Notes for this Episode   I’ve become aware of a local teen that may be dealing with neglect and abuse. How do we proceed? I’m planning my wedding and really conflicted because my parents are struggling both financially and in their marriage. Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents Paperback - Lindsay C. Gibson I’m struggling with setting boundaries and having necessary conversations with my brother who is addicted to meth. Lyrics of the Day: "God Only Knows" - For King & Country   As heard on this episode: BetterHelp   tags: abuse, disagreement/conflict, family, money, boundaries, parenting, substance abuse, addiction   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.    

On today's show, we talk about how to report, child abuse, who to call, and when to call. We also talk about pain associated with boundaries. When your parents are hurting, when your brother is hurting, how do you love other people and keep your boundaries? Stay tuned. Hey, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I hope you're doing awesome.

And if you're not doing awesome, I hope you're just doing fine. If you're not doing fine, I hope you are getting through today. I hope you got some friends you can reach out to. You got somebody you can call and just say, how's it going? We're glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. James is glad you're here. Zach for sure is glad you're here.

Kelly, probably not. She's not glad about many things in the world that don't involve margaritas or food. But other than that, not margarita. Oh, yeah. I forgot about the incident. That's awesome. Hey, listen. Out in the lobby, there's people out here and it's awesome but but we got a brave kid out here his name's gage from florida he's waving gage rolls up here

with a fender shirt on all over james he's all about the fenders i as a gibson person my heart ached but it was well played. It was a good move. Gage looks like a wise young man to me. I know. James and his Fender guitar. People who, I don't want to get into it here. I'm going to get canceled by the guitar culture. I'm just saying Gibsons and Martins.

My kids on the radio, they can hear a song and they'll be like, Dad, that's not a Gibson or a Martin. And I will just look at my wife and say, we're doing all right. We're doing all right. When my kids are in rehab someday i'm gonna tell them like but they could do this they could they could they could decipher the difference between a gibson and a martin look here's the deal we're so glad you're here if you want to be on the show we talk about mental health relationships life which guitars are better gauge right? We are talking about everything and anything. And here's the big thing. The show's for you.

Okay? The show's about you. It's real calls from real people struggling with real stuff. And we walk alongside one another and try to figure this out. Give me a call at 1-844-693-3291. That's 1-844-693-3291. Or go to johndeloney.com slash show. And I just made the little slash mark with my hand because I don't know why I did that.

Go to johndeloney.com slash show. Fill out the form. It'll go to Kelly. And she will get you on the show. All right, let's go straight to the phone study. We've got a packed show. Let's go talk to Pam in Jacksonville, Florida. Pam, what's going on?

How can I help? Hey, John. Thank you so much for taking my call today. Thank, Florida. Pam, what's going on? How can I help? Hey, John. Thank you so much for taking my call today. Thank you for calling. So what's up? So I've got a close friend whose teenage daughter has confided in her mom and me that she thinks her 15-year-old best friend is being neglected and emotionally abused by her parents. So recently this family moved out of our area into the

Colorado area, and the friend has been confiding to her that she is living in the unfinished basement while the rest of the family is living upstairs. So it doesn't appear that there's adequate heat down there. The young lady, they do FaceTime chats every day, and she's always bundled up in, like, double hoodies, and her face is kind of flushed, like, you know, she's cold. And she even said the other day that her lip, she tried to use her lip gloss, and it had froze over. So she also said that, and this family, you know, full-time ministry, you know, they're not in poverty or anything, but apparently she only got a blanket for Christmas, and her birthday was recently, and she got a candy bar. Okay. So this is not, I personally know this family as well from when they lived here, and this is not characteristic of what they portray to the people that they know. So I tried to encourage the young lady to try to confirm with her friend that this is legit, that she's not maybe just really depressed and fabricating the story for attention.

From what she can tell, it seems to be pretty accurate. Okay. But whenever the young gal brings it up, you know, she seems freaked out, tries to change the subject, glosses over, you know, kind of backpedals a little bit. If the friend tries to ask too many questions, she's terrified, I think, of backlash from her parents if they, you know, if someone were to intervene. So we're just in a quandary as to, you know, knowing this information, you know, what do we do with it? I mean, it's really heavy. You know, we're very concerned for her, but just don't know what our role is at this point.

Now, I love your heart and I love your questions. Man, I've had that powerless feeling when you know you've got to do something, you've got to say something, but it's far away and it's third hand. You know you don't want to jump too far, but you don't want to not do anything right. So good for you for reaching out. I really appreciate that. All right, so the first big thing here is this other kid who still lives with you guys, who lives around y'all, she is done with the Sherlock Holmes business. She cannot be the person trying to dig and get information.

She's a child, okay? What she needs is adults in her life to come over, like, be 52 bomb. Like, this is our deal because we're grownups and you're a child and you're not doing this. Mm, okay. And I don't mess with, and this would be something that you'd have a direct sit-down conversation. Okay. And possibly even with two sets of, like, so this is your friend's daughter, right? Yes. Yeah, I'd recommend you and your friend sit down with her and let her know she did the right hard thing by letting you guys know.

She is not to ask any more questions, do any more investigating. This is an adult situation. And if it's not true, then there will be situations to – I mean, they'll deal with it there. If it is true, adults – and this is a bigger deal than a kid, right? And so I want her to know adults are acting like adults. Does that make sense? Okay. Yes, absolutely.

So just off the bat, there's something, it's not passing my smell test, and I've just worked with a lot of kids in messy situations. That doesn't mean it's not true. So if I'm you, I would do one of two things. I would call either the non-emergency police line where she's at and ask the police to do a welfare check. Let them know that you've received secondhand information from a fellow teenager that there's a young woman who's being forced to live in her basement and has no adequate heat. It's not a crime to give your kid a candy bar for their birthday

or a blanket for Christmas, right? Yeah, we said that same thing, right. It can be uncomfortable, and this may be a great time to show, I mean, to have that conversation, especially with your friend. She friend she can have that with her daughter like not everybody grows up with like we do and sometimes all a family can scratch together there's a blanket and it's a great blessing and it's it's a gift right and not everybody gets stuff for for birthdays and so it could be a eye-opening experience right um but it does sound like if there's a kid being forced to live i think they whether they got 28 inches of snow or something the other day.

Like if they're being forced to live in a basement, no heat. Yeah, that's child abuse. And if the police show up and realize there is nothing here, then that kid's going to have to have some hard conversation with their parents. And she may be struggling with things that the parents have been dealing with for years that nobody knew about right i come from my dad was a cop for half my life and a minister for half my i know what happened there's different worlds behind closed doors right and so that who knows what's going on but for you you can sleep at night knowing i let the people who are trained and skilled to intervene i let them know right the other other

group you can call is a local child protective service and let them know hey we got this secondhand report through a friend that this is going on and we'd really love it if y'all reached out here's the the challenge they will probably never let you know what happens because there's privacy laws you're dealing with a minor unless there's a criminal charges that that become public they're probably never going to tell you what happens and so it's just one of those things you got to do the right thing and you're never going to be able to hold the outcome here and then you're going to have to go to bed knowing you did the right thing right yeah yes yes and not give the young lady any heads up at all right that we were going to do

that i did if this is in my house here's what i'm going to do i'm going to talk to my kid my son my daughter about what integrity looks like and integrity is when you say i'm never going to tell that means you never tell but But it also means beneath that, you do the right thing even when it's hard. And that sits underneath. There's a difference between privacy and secrets, right? We keep things private. We don't keep secrets.

Right, right. And so what's happened to your friend's daughter is not by her hand, but in her lap, right? She had a great friend, and then her friend told her something. And so if that's my your friend's daughter is not by her hand but in her lap, right? She had a great friend and then her friend told her something. And so if I – as my kid, I'm going to tell them, hey, we keep things private with our friends. We don't keep secrets like this. I would recommend you tell your friend, hey, this is really a scary thing and I did what I knew to do and I told my mom and she's probably going to reach out. And that's teaching her – man, that's a lifelong lesson. And it's going to be uncomfortable. That girl is going to say out and that's teaching her man she that's a lifelong

lesson and it's going to be uncomfortable that girl's going to say you violated i hate you you're but and those are hard lessons to learn i'd much rather a 15 year old experience that than when she finds out one of her co-workers when she's an associate vice president of a company is stealing and it's going to get her fired for coming forward. I'd rather her have those muscles flexed now in the comfort of her mom's home. All of us are faced with those choices throughout our life. I'd rather her start learning that stuff now. Yes, okay.

But not everyone's going to do that. That will be a gruesome, grueling, hard phone call for a 15-year-old to make. I would all but demand my son do it, my diamond. I'm sorry. So the young lady should make this call or one of us adults? You're saying? Probably both together. Both together. Yeah. Again, I would want my son to practice, my daughter to practice having a hard conversation with their friend. Okay. Right. Sure. And that may be like, Hey, I got my mom right here on a FaceTime. I want you to know, I know you're going to be mad at me, but I'm really worried about you.

And so I told my mom and then that's when one of the adults can lean in and say, yeah, we're worried about you. And we're going to go ahead and make a phone call. I just want you to know that. Okay. And if you get either, I, Oh, I was just kidding, it wasn't real, then you can have those conversations. Then that's a conversation to have, right? Right. You really scared us, and this is not something funny to joke about. This isn't a joke. If you get the, if they find out they're going to kill me, I'm dead, whatever, then you for sure have to make that call, right?

You've got to get the authorities involved then. Right, right. But anyway, I want to take this as a learning opportunity for my teenage child that relationships are messy and hard, and sometimes you've got to do the hard, hard thing. And I want them to know that mom's got your back, and mom's going to take this burden from you. You've taken it far enough, and then it's time. And then here's what's going to happen. burden from you. You've taken it far enough and then it's time. And then here's what's going to happen.

25 years, I already gave the work example, 25 years, there's going to be a fight out in the front lawn of her house. Just two teenagers are going to be fighting out there. The right thing to do is to call the authorities in and let them come over there and solve that problem, right? Not go out there and get, so she's going to get a model for what it looks like when you call the right person in to handle a problem. That's good. That's good, John.

But I really, really love your heart here. And I really love the fact that y'all are wrestling with this in a real way. Man, that's going to send such a great message to her daughter. It's going to send a great message to this young woman who's in Colorado now. And none of this is going to be easy. You betrayed me. You lied. You swore you would never tell. You're right. I did. And I've had this same conversation with friends who are like, hey, you promise you won't tell? Yeah. Hey, I just heard about so-and-so's kit. I'm sorry, man. I'm going to tell. I have to.

Not even because it's legal, because it's right. Here's the thing that guides me. Whenever the government has to give you a baseline for reporting things, when the government has to give you a baseline for hospitality, like when they have to make a law that says, hey, these people are allowed in this building, whoever these people is, we should all be ashamed of ourselves, right? If the government says, hey, if you hear about this, it's a law you have to tell. That's embarrassing. We should already have a culture of reporting, of taking care of each other, of if my kids are hurting, I want somebody to reach out, right?

Even if they think I'm the source of their hurt, let's get all these kids the help and care that they need. And they've got to see in their lifetime that adults will step up and do the right thing. I love it, Pam. Thank you so much for that call. Let's go to Alex right down the street in Nashville, Tennessee. What's up, Alex? How can I help? Hey, Dr. John, thanks for taking my call. I'll dive right into my question here. So I'm 31 in the process. I have a fiance. We're in the process of planning our wedding and doing the baby steps, just to provide a little context. We're on baby step two, just running through it as quick as we can.

Getting all your debt paid off, huh? Yeah, picked up a side gig, you know, doing good as far as that's concerned. But where it gets a little messy is my family is going through a bit of a financial hard time, which is not normal. It's just they're in a bit of a transition period. And I know from listening to the show, the Dave Ramsey show, that the right thing to do is take care of me so that I'm in a position to take care of them or just prioritize my own family. And I understand that, but it doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good to be making big payments towards my debt and essentially building my future. But then my parents, even though this situation may be temporary, are not in the same position. Emotionally, that's hard to carry.

That cinder block's hard to carry, to use your analogy. Look at that. Look at you, Alex, to use your analogy. Look at that. Look at you, Alex. I listen a lot. I appreciate that. So are you feeling this from them, or is this just something you're carrying around? No, no, no. No, it's just me.

Are they hitting you up for money and saying, man, it must be nice, and we don't have any heat or anything? No, no, no, not at all. Okay. Yeah, not at all. Okay. Yeah, not at all. I mean, they would want nothing more than me to be able to progress the way that I have. No, there's no ask from them at all. This is just an internal thing.

Have you ever taken your dad out or your mom out and just said, hey, tell me what's going on. It looks like things are hard. Talk me through it. We're both grown-ups. I'm about to get married. What's going on could y'all have that conversation yeah so we we have a great um we have a great rapport my parents and i so i know what's going on basically ah okay um you know basically it's just my dad is in a bit of a career transition uh you know he's works in automotive industry things have career transition. Uh, you know, he's worked in automotive industry,

things have changed. They would rather hire, you know, five people and pay them a low salary versus hire one and pay them a high salary. So there's a, there's a bit of a transition there and, uh, he's working through it and I think it'll be fine. You know, they're not in dire straits or anything. It's just, it doesn't, it doesn't feel good. It doesn't, it doesn't feel good to make a big student loan payment. Um, when I know that they're, you know, just not able to live the way that they typically live. You know what I mean? Yeah. So how can I help you, man? I just, I guess, um, I, I come from a place where you always take care of your family. And now that I'm engaged, you know, even though we're not married, you know, I was always taught that, you know, once you are engaged, you take care of your family. So I understand that what I'm doing is taking care of my family, but not to sound like a broken record.

I just I want to know how to feel better. You know, how do you balance that? You know, how do you how do you balance taking care of your own family while knowing that the other side of the family is not on the same page? So how honest do you want me to be with you? 100%. For real? Yeah. All right.

Here's the honest truth. Nothing. Nothing. here's the honest truth nothing when you have when you love somebody and they're hurting you're going to hurt too when you put up boundaries that are going to keep you well

and whole protect your family and not only protect that sounds so draconian and dramatic to to keep you healthy to keep you alive to keep you whole so that you can be in service to other people when you do that it hurts because people they

they want to hit their head up against that boundary or you can look over your your boundary and see that they're struggling and you recognize in your heart you're not in a shape you're not in any sort of shape to go out there and help them right and so you're just kind of stuck and you can be a presence you can be positive you can connect but you can't solve their problem and there's a feeling of powerlessness there that just hurts right and there's something about i wish i had a less lame word there's something about, I wish I had a less lame word. There's something about growing up. You just recognize that sometimes in life, things just suck. They just hurt, man. And there's no magic solution other than to sit next to folks and say, I hate this for you. And man, I've had taken calls. You've probably heard them where parents are calling their kids, begging for money.

And they're trying to keep up a lifestyle. They're trying to keep up a situation, right? And that's even harder, but it's easier, right? Because I can get angry at those parents for preying on their children. This isn't that way. It just sounds like you've got a big, huge heart. You have a great, close family. And you're just watching them kind of flounder around a little bit, and it hurts.

Yeah, I've kind of learned this year that sometimes making the best decision hurts the most. And I think maybe this is one of these scenarios. Yeah, so here's the typical, and I'm going to over-stereotype this. I'm going to over-generalize it and over-gender it, okay? What a lot of guys do in your situation is they start flexing and they withdraw. And they just seek out numbing behaviors. Whether that's I'm going to work some more hours. I'm going to get another side gig. I'm going to learn the drums.

I'm going to have two extra drinks. I'm going to fill in the blank, right? And what I would challenge you with as you're entering into a lifelong commitment, as you're entering off the edge of the, you know, off the high dive here and starting your new marriage, I want you to develop an ability to be vulnerable with your fiancé, with your future wife. Be vulnerable with your buddies that you have here in town that you may still have from college that you have at work That are safe and people that you trust But man start practicing

Hey, this is hard. I'm really struggling my parents situation and i'm sending all this money You can even sit down with your fiance if you haven't already i'm sure you have but say I just I know this is going to be weird, but I just need to be vulnerable and say i'm really struggling My my parents are struggling and it just makes me sad and i'm sorry about that I know this is going to be weird, but I just need to be vulnerable and say, I'm really struggling. My parents are struggling, and it just makes me sad. And I'm sorry about that. And hopefully she is of the caliber of person that's going to say, I hate that for you, and is going to give you a hug. And y'all are going to watch a show together and go for a walk, whatever the thing is going to be. But I don't want you to experience this pain and immediately run from it.

Okay? Okay. It can be. I appreciate that. Is that what you're doing? I don't want you to experience this pain and immediately run from it. Okay? Okay. It can be. I appreciate that. Is that what you're doing? Yeah. I mean, I probably worked 85 hours last week just to stay busy.

Just running. Yeah, yeah. Working 85 hours when you're in baby step two and you're trying to, for those of you who don't know what that is, that's, man, it sounds like Alex and his fiance are trying to pay off everything they own, be debt-free by the time they get married. Man, sometimes you work out 85 hours right before you get married, you're trying to grind it out and, you know, get your debt paid off. That happens. But you and I both know when we double down to work more, right? I'm going to, I actually sent a text message to the guy that runs everything for me here and said, I'm having a rough couple of weeks.

I'm going to bury myself in work over the next two months. I sent that, and I do this for a living, man. So this is the pot talking to the kettle here. But there's something to be said for talking to your fiance and saying, hey, I just need you to know I'm struggling. It's not you. I'm excited about our wedding. I'm excited.

I love my family. I just hate to see them hurt, and I don't really have a tool set for that. And the tool set is just to sit there and let your feelings be heard. And then you've got to get up and go back to work, right? But it's both and, not either or. Is she somebody you can talk to about it? Oh, yeah, for sure. So we really emphasize communication.

So I've had a conversation with her and this is her response. You know, the conversation went a lot like what you said. And she said to me, she said, this is, you know, what you're feeling right now is basically why you need to complete the baby steps, you know, because if you complete the baby steps, you know, the way that Dave says, when they really do need something, we can be there for them. When we have the baby step three and the four and, you know, all need something, we can be there for them. When we have the baby step three and the four and all those things, we can be there for them when they really need something. That's why we need to do it.

Brother, you are marrying really well, man. Good for you. Punching outside my weight. You way out kicked your coverage on this one. Yes, that's just a wise person, right? If we will hurt now and do hard things right now, it's going to give us freedom that no one in our family even understands later on, right? And that doesn't make it easy. Maybe you do have the conversation.

So let's say your dad doesn't get a job in the next 24 months and things get messy, right? Go ahead and have that conversation now. What would this look like for us? Or are our parents ever going to move in with us? That's a good conversation to have now, right? And they can be hypothetical and they can be funny and they can be, whoa, they can live in a tent in the backyard.

I mean, however, y'all have conversations like that, but I'd recommend this, using this opportunity. And if you tell your fiance, hey, I want to practice being open about these hard things, use that language with her. It will give her some grace with you when you say things wrong, you stumble over it. It will give you permission to kind of lean into it a little bit. And hey, listen, spouses, if somebody, if some partner comes to you and says, hey, I want to be vulnerable here, don't weaponize that.

Don't be ugly about it. Don't make fun of it. Don't give advice. Just sit and be still. Even if it's not your picture of masculinity, even if it's not your picture of, why don't you just solve it and get over with it? Don't do that, man. I hear a lot of guys who are married will say, I finally was honest. I sat down and told my wife I'm struggling.

And she looked at me like I was the biggest wimp she'd ever seen. It was embarrassing. And then she would go off and tell her girlfriends, my husband's a whiner. Don't do that. Don't do that, man. If somebody gets the courage to be honest and vulnerable, please honor that moment, right? That pause when they've set their armor down, right? Honor that. Alex, you're in the right place, man. There's nothing that's going to make this go away. And I'm grateful for you for having a good heart. Good for you, man.

Sit with it. Be honest. And if you can, take your dad out for coffee and just say, hey, man, how are things? Do that. It's going to build your bond with him. It's going to give you some new communication skills between you and him together. It's going to be good. So thank you so much for that call. All right, listen, I was reading this book. I'm rereading it, actually. I read it a few years ago at the recommendation of a doctor, just a buddy of mine.

It's called Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay Gibson. Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents. I can just imagine people driving down the road being like, they wrote a book about my parents. This is a pretty extraordinary read. Now, my mom and dad don't listen to this, but if you are, it's every parent in the world but y'all. By the way, mom and dad. Actually, my mom's the only one that listens to this thing. I want to read this to you, and it's going to sound nerdy, but here we go.

Get this. Lindsay Gibson writes here, Dr. Gibson writes, most of the time you wouldn't notice anything unhealthy about them, these parents. However, their children may have trouble with either initiative or self-control. Paradoxically, these very involved, hardworking parents often end up with unmotivated, even depressed children. If you look a bit deeper, you can detect the emotional immaturity in these upstanding, responsible people. Get this. It shows up in the way they make assumptions about other people,

expecting everyone to want and value the same things they do. Their excessive self-focus manifests as a conviction that they quote-unquote know what's good for others. They don't experience self-doubt consciously and prefer to pretend everything is settled. They already have all the answers. And so they, driven parents, grow up in an emotionally depriving environment, right? They're so proud of their success.

They're so proud of their so-called independence that they can't offer their children the unconditional acceptance that would give their kids a secure foundation from which to go out and to achieve. Whether they mean to or not, driven parents make their children feel evaluated constantly. Hear that? They make their kids feel constantly evaluated, right? So think of it this way. The most important thing you can do for your kids is to see them for who they are, to connect with them, to let them make their own mistakes. Crash and scrape and bleed.

Not crash and burn, because a crash and burn is a one and done, right? Your job is to let them fall off limb number one, limb number two. Not limb number seven, because they don't bounce back from that one, right? Your job is to let them fall off limb number one, limb number two, not limb number seven because they don't bounce back from that one, right? But so many parents are about, what are the goals? What are the strategic plans? I need you to look like this and play like this and sing like this. And you get a culture and a home, a language and a home of do more, try harder. You know what you should? Hey, you need to be, hey, don't forget to, and it's evaluation and judgments. Hey, if you would just hold the bat this way or you got to kick the ball with this side of your,

or hit the notes just like this, right? You got to study a little bit harder. Suddenly a kid can't make their way through life. Now, don't be dramatic. You've got to have accountability. You've got to have rules. You've got to encourage and coach and support your kids. No question about that. But one thing I learned with my own kids is the conversation's different. When I ask myself, when I ask my kid, hey, would you be interested in me showing you a few new things? If not, no problem. Or I used to hold the bat different. If you ever want to know how I used to hold the bat, let me know.

And sometimes I say, cool. And they don't ask. You know what that means? I'm going to stay out of that conversation, right? Because my job isn't to make sure my kid holds the bat well for his four or five seasons of Little League. My job is to make sure my kid knows I love him. My job isn't to make sure my kid holds the bow just right on their violin. That's their violin teacher's job. My job is to make sure my kid knows, hey, you need to follow what the teacher does or you're opting out. You're choosing to not practice violin. I'm going to stop putting the money in there. That's your choice. It's

your decision. But man, I want to preserve my relationship with my kid over their achievement and success. And here's the math that doesn't work. If your kid feels anchored into you, then they can jump off the side and rappel into all kinds of adventures, right? They can, and I'm not saying be wishy-washy or wimpy. I'm real, real strict with my kids. Real, probably too much, to be honest with you.

I really want my kids to be successful. And it's a daily practice for me as a parent to remember their success is going to come from the fact that they know they are loved and they know they are completely anchored in and that from that anchoring, they can do anything. Not from my constant badgering and fighting. And I know what's best for you. You know what? The way I got through my childhood, good, God almighty. And the way I got through my childhood years and years ago, they live in a different ecosystem than I do.

So we're going to talk about principles. We're going to talk about values. We're going to talk about consequences and accountability. And all of that's going to be anchored in one place. I love you. I'm emotionally stable. You are welcome here always. I value you always. Now, you want to see how dad used to hold that bat? You want to see how mom used to play the piano? The way she moved her hand? We'll be happy to tell you.

All you have to do is ask, right? Check this book out. It's incredible. Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. We'll link to it in the show notes. Way to go, Dr. Lindsay Gibson. It's incredible. All right, let's take one more call.

Let's go to Samantha in Seattle, Washington. Samantha, what up? Hi, Dr. D. How are you? I'm really excited to talk to you. I'm excited for you to talk to you. So what's up? Well, I was calling you.

I wrote down my question so I could have my thoughts clear here. So my older brother, he is two years older than me. He's been using methamphetamine for about the last five years that we know. It's so hard. Yeah. I'm sorry. And thank you. So I've watched as his life is just completely degraded.

First he lost his job, then his home, then he was charged with felonies, then recently his marriage, and now his three children. And I do carry a lot of guilt about the children because he voluntarily surrendered them to CPS on my advice because they were not in a good situation. Anyways, it's been a long and hard five years watching this, and I think I've become a little hardened to the situation and sick of hearing how much of a victim he says he is. But my question for you is, how do I set boundaries that protect my family and my heart

without completely isolating my brother and appearing heartless? So how do you feel like you... tell me about how you feel heartless? Well, you know, he'll call me in situations, and, you know, there are always really long stories that you would just never even believe would happen to him. And, you know, he never asks me for money or anything like that. We live in different states. But, you know, it's hard for me not to say like, well, you did that because everything is always everyone else's fault. You know, he always plays the victim. My wife kicked me out. My wife did this to me. Yeah. You know, this person stole my stuff and it's just always the same story. I've

asked him several times, like, are you tired yet? Like, aren't you tired of where you're at? And then he feels attacked and says, I don't understand him. And, you know, I'm a prosecutor and my husband's a police officer and we know exactly what this looks like. And so for me, I'm just like, you know, I want to be there for him, particularly because I'm still really involved in my niece's life, his children. So give me that language. Or paint me a picture of this. What does really involved mean?

With my nieces? No. When you say you want to be involved with your brother, what does that mean? Paint me a picture of that. Well, I want to be able to listen to him and know what he's going through. You know, it's a double-edged sword of whenever I do talk to him, it's, you know, I feel like I'm his emotional dumping ground. Yep. And I take that on, and I know it affects the way that, you know, I am around my family.

I have two young children and my husband, and so I know I take that on and internalize it, but I don't want to say, hey, I don't want to talk to you anymore. You can't call me ever because then I, you know, he's homeless and lives out in the desert. So then I always, in the back of my mind, I'm like, is my brother alive? Is he safe? Right. So. I hate this for you. And I doubly hate it because I've been there.

Not with my brother, but I've got people that I love and that I've been friends with and connected to for years and years and years who've struggled with meth. And meth, you know this, I'm just, I'm saying this out loud for those who listen, meth takes your soul from the inside out. And it almost, it's like how a sock can be pulled inside out. You just watch somebody you love just, I just can't describe it other than I just feel like someone just – you're watching them get sucked into a black hole backwards. And you know they're in there somewhere, but there's so many layers. And occasionally the layers get thin, the light can get through, and they'll pick up the phone and they'll call you.

And you know what I'm – Sam, Samantha, like, you know, like, right. And you hear them in there and you answer that phone and you so bad want this to be the call and it never is. Right. And then you find yourself 45 minutes later and they're telling you some story about, I was just going over there for a quick minute because I had to pick up a check because I did a quick painting job, which you know is absolutely not what happened. And then it turns into a thing and a thing and a thing. Yeah. Yeah. And then suddenly, I find my hands are clenched.

My heart's beating fast. I'm so annoyed. I just want to hang up. And then I get my own guilt and shame spiral, right? That, oh, you don't even love so-and-so. Man, I've been there. And I hate that for you. Here's what I ultimately did and had to do.

And this is just my N equals one experiment. It's worked out in my world, okay? So this is the best I can tell you because meth is so hard um the first one is i did come out with some boundaries saying i i don't want to hear any more of your drug stories okay you can call me anytime i love love talking to you but i will not i'm not going to entertain any more drug stories i don't want to hear about those adventures. And it may take one or two times to like stop, stop, stop, stop. I've already told you.

And this isn't a calm conversation. This isn't in that, in a. Managed state. Right. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah. It's not when the, I call it when the weed eater is going. Right. When it's just.

Yeah. It's not in that moment because they can't hear anything in that moment. Right. And, but I'm not gonna hear any more drug stories i'd love to hear about how you're doing where you're living how's the desert right and one of my most common responses is i'm so sorry i love you that's it where i made i think the most long-term impact was I wrote a lot of letters. And people who listen to the show know I say that a lot. And here's why. When somebody's dealing with criminal activity, when someone's especially dealing with any sort of addiction, drugs, pornography, whatever the thing is, right, is whenever somebody even approaches that addiction, every wall, every piece of armor comes flying up.

You know this. You're a prosecutor, right? Yeah. What a letter lets somebody do is it gives them something to go back to and go back to and go back to. So their initial, like when you say, aren't you just tired yet? Then the boom, all the walls come up, up all the attacks the arrows just start flying towards you and you're like what did i do what did i do yeah right actually when you have a letter they read that letter and they get one paragraph in or your brother i won't say they your brother

is going to read and get one one paragraph in boom all the walls you're gonna go up he's gonna start shooting arrows be shooting at a piece of. And he may throw that paper away. And then next month, he's going to get another letter from you. And he may do it again. Over time, he's going to know two things. She kept writing me. She kept sending something. And the second thing is eventually he's going to read a whole letter and be like, she sucks. Who does she think she is? Ooh, Miss Fancy Lawyer. But then one day he's going to read that same letter again. Another day he's going to read that same letter again. And over time, kind of like how water just drips through limestone, it's going to make its way down. And that pool down there will get deeper and deeper and deeper. And you know as well as I do,

the other end of meth is usually one of two things, right? Somebody like you said, just gets exhausted and says enough's enough. And they're going to do the hard work and get cleaned up or it's got a really tragic ending. And that's where you have to do the hard stuff, right? So we just talked about your relationship there. You have to make sure you got really good boundaries at home. And I had to do some work on myself.

What I found in myself was I had my own addictive stuff. I just got paid for mine, right? Because mine's culturally acceptable, right? I went to grad school. Not saying you went to law school, but maybe, right? Hey, I did come up to Seattle to get away from stuff happening in Las Vegas. There you go, right? You nailed it. So I worked with a lot of law students who, once they took a breath, realized they were running too. They're just

running towards something that the world said is going to make you some money. But addiction is addiction is addiction is addiction. Running from trauma is running from trauma is running from trauma, right? Now, if you have to pick math or law school, go to law school for God's sake, right? But there is something about us doing our own work on ourselves. I got two PhDs for crying out loud. Don't tell me I wasn't running for something, right? So we're all running, most of us, and I had to do my own work, which then made those boundaries easier for me. Once I wasn't feeling so guilty all the time, once I didn't feel like it was my job to make sure somebody else was doing okay and partridge in a pear, right? All that stuff. Man, then I could breathe and I could just say, I'm so sorry.

I love you. And when there was some wild story about somebody broke into my trailer, I finally got a trailer from this guy named Tom for $100. And then, but somebody, he's like, man, I'm so sorry. I love you. And I didn't have to solve it. I didn't have to, you know what I mean? And it just gave me so much peace.

And then one by one over the course of five years, 10 years, 15 years, I've got great, great relationships with every single one of those people. And again, mine's a fairy tale, right? I didn't have anybody die. I didn't have anybody fall all the way off where they couldn't come back. And can I be real honest with you? Yeah. I moved into into vulnerable world there were some seasons when some of my friends who people i loved were caught in addiction and they called me out on my crap too

right yeah they would occasionally drop like oh you think you're better than me i'd be like no and then i'd get up and hang up the phone i think why do i think i'm better than somebody struggling right i had to deal with my own stuff. Right. And so that relationship went both ways for a long, long time. Of course you carry the burden of that on your shoulders, right? You carry the most of it,

but yeah, I mean him and I, we definitely talk about those things. Cause you know, he'll say you don't understand, or it must be nice to say that in your war of house. And so we've talked about those things and, you know, I've told them I'm never going to apologize for where I'm at. I worked hard to get here and you don't get to make me feel guilty about that. And so let me tell you this,

for him, he is dragging you into deep, deep muddy water. And so when an addict comes at you and says, oh, it must be nice in your warm house, that's when you can just simply – because that sets off your alarm, right? That sets you like, hey, listen, buddy. Don't respond to that attack. Just say, I'm so sorry it's cold. I love you. And that's that. I'm not going to get in the mud with you.

I'm just not. I'm not going to give's that. I'm not going to get in the mud with you. I'm just not. I'm not going to give you that. And folks who come up in trauma systems, folks who come up in a messy childhood, man, when somebody wants to drag you into a fight, I'm coming, baby, right? What happens is you end up in a fight that you can't win. They don't want to fight you anyway.

It's the only language they have, and you both end up disgusted and exhausted and covered mud solves nothing right so that simple oh it must be nice you know yeah it is nice here i'm sorry it's cold where you are that's it end of the sentence right i'm not gonna i'm not gonna receive attacks from an addict i'm just not because i know that's not where their heart is i know there's different parts of their brain hollering out at me. It's not them. It's not in their soul. So be it. Right? And Sam, I, or Samantha, I called you Sam, like we're bros. Sam, I know, know, know that's so hard. And I can be, you can be honest here. I'm willing to bet you carry a

little bit extra shame because of your job. You're a prosecutor. You see your brother's face every day when you go to work. You're a thousand miles away from him and you see his face every day when you go to work. Your husband sees his face every day as a police officer when he goes to work. And that makes it extra hard. That makes it extra, extra hard. Do the work on yourself. Draw those firm boundaries when the helicopter is quiet right when the when the weed eater is off don't listen to any more don't be a dumping ground anymore and just simply

respond with i'm so sorry it's cold so sorry you're hungry and make sure you get on the letter wagon when you're when the when the light finally shines through the shutters in your brother's heart, he's going to see that stack over in the corner of those letters that Sam kept sending, kept sending, kept sending, kept sending. We'll be thinking about you, Samantha. I've been there. It's so hard. We'll be thinking about you. All right. Thank you so much for that call. All right, as we wrap up today, listen. Gage, the Fender playing young man from the audience. I said, you can pick any song in the world, and you are going to get the song of the day.

Here's the song he picked. Actually, some Nashville residents. They're two super handsome guys. It's kind of annoying that they look so good and they're so talented. They go by the band name for King & Country and it's off to burn the ship's album. The song is called God Only Knows. This is for my new friend Gage.

And here's what the song lyrics go. Here's how they go. Wide awake while the world is sound asleep and too afraid of what might show up while you're dreaming. Nobody, nobody sees you. Nobody would believe you. And every day you try to pick up all the pieces, all the memories, they somehow never leave you.

Nobody sees you. And nobody would believe you. And God only knows what you've been through. And God only knows what they say about you. And God only knows how it's killing you. But there's a kind of love that God only knows what they say about you and God only knows how it's killing you. But there's a kind of love that God only knows. There's a kind of love that God only knows. Gage, great song.

I've never listened to it, but I'm going to after this show. This has been the Dr. John Deloney Show. you