The Dr. John Delony Show - What To Do When Hobbies Take Over Family Time

Episode Date: August 12, 2022

On today’s show, we hear from a wife who resents her husband for neglecting family time, a mother angry with her son-in-law for cheating on her daughter, and a woman wondering if she can ever learn to respect her immature husband. Lyrics of the Day: "I'm Gonna Miss Her" - Brad Paisley Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. My son-in-law threw a grenade into the middle of trust I had in him with infidelity. And I'm struggling with how to handle a conversation. Do I have a conversation? Do I not have a conversation? Thank you for being the single most mature mother-in-law I think I've ever talked to on this show. Woo, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Man, I'm glad you're with us today.

Talking about relationships and mental health and whatever else is going on in your world. Whatever's going on in your world. You want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. And don't forget to call or write your local congressman for my Hot Topic bill. I'd like to introduce that you can't buy clothes

at Hot Topic and wear them in public. If you're over, what did I say, 25? We'll make up an age. 19? That's probably good. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's wise. All right, let's go to Mary in Little Rock.

Hey, Mary, what's up? Hey, John. Long-time listener, first-time caller. How are you? Nobody ever says that. That's fantastic. Are you serious? Nobody ever says that. That's fantastic. Are you serious? I figured a lot of people say that. No, it's because I don't have any long-time listeners.

They listen once and they're like, I'm never listening to that stupid show again. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. So what's up? Thanks for taking my call today. Let's save the world. What's up? Okay, so I'll... All right, I'm going to give a really brief question, and then we can kind of dig into it if you want to, or you might have a

really brief answer. So here we go. Um, my question is how can I be supportive of my husband's hobbies without feeling kind of resentful without the fact that they mainly take him, you know, away on the weekend to do stuff? Ooh, good question. Um, okay. Tell me more. Um, so we have been married almost three years. We've got two kids under two. Um, we both work very intense full-time jobs, his job. Uh, he has kind of erratic hours, so he's not home a lot at night and some weekends anyway. And so that's why I kind of putratic hours, so he's not home a lot at night and some weekends anyway. And so that's why I kind of put so much emphasis on our quality time on the weekends. And then, you know, every few months it's like, hey, I'm going to pick up this new hobby.

And I'm like, why? What are you doing? Anyway. Okay, there's a few things at play here, okay? Okay. One, two kids, two and under, right? Or two kids under two, right? Yes.

Okay. Y'all are in a season that is not going to last forever, okay? Right. So I want you to let that be the sidewalk that we're going to walk on together. This season will pass, okay? The second thing is, I want to hear from you about quality time. When you talk to your husband about quality time, tell me how that conversation goes. I mean, when I say, like, I think we need to spend more time together, it's doing stuff as a family.

And it's not being in the same room while he's on his phone or while I'm entertaining our kids. I try and explain what quality time means to me, and I don't always feel like that gets heard, I guess. Okay. So I'm going to make myself a little note here so I can circle back to it. Okay. Tell me about his hobbies. What are we talking about here? Hunting,

fishing, all the things that go along with those mainly. Hunting and fishing. So you're, we're in the summer here, so we're getting to the end of fishing and about to start the hunting season and you're already anticipating losing him for the next few months, right? Well, I mean, I try to be understanding about certain seasons of hunting because it's seasonal, and I know it's only a certain period of days where he can do certain hunting.

And I'm like, okay, but for example, a few months ago, he traded some piece of hunting equipment for a fishing kayak. And then it became, well, I'm going to go fishing every weekend in this new fishing kayak. So tell me, there's something beneath the time thing here. What is it? What do you mean? He makes declarations And switches hobbies With some regularity

So is it the spending That's driving you crazy? Or is it the No, no it's not Okay Is it the perception that You're stuck at home Like

You could say I'm just gonna go kayaking Every weekend But you Are looking at these two little kids And you think I can't I'm here

And is it the freedom That he feels like he has To just head out every weekend, but you are looking at these two little kids and you think, I can't, I'm here. And is it the freedom that he feels like he has to just head out? Is that the resentment? I think that's what it is. And it's not that I have all these hobbies that I want to be doing because I love spending time with my kids, especially since I don't see them much during the week. But I think it's the freedom, yes, of he can say, well, I'm going to go do this today. And I'm like, okay, I guess you're going to do that today. But the resentment there is, and it's a common resentment. It's not that, well, yeah, you said it perfectly. It's not like you want him to want to fulfill your picture of what a Saturday would look like.

Here's two incredible things, okay? Number one, my guess is, and you could say, John, you are wrong. We are good at this. If you're good at it, you would be in the 1% of the 1%, okay, of married couples with two kids, two and under. Is,

have you heard me talk about pictures and words here? Yes. Okay. Is that you have- I'm a long time listener. Come on. Okay,

but you have a very clear picture in your head of what time is with family, family time looks like, and that we're not doing a great job of communicating that to your husband. And he has a very clear understanding of here's what I need. And he communicates that with, I'm going to go kayaking every day. Because my guest is kayaking or getting out in nature, whatever the thing is, also fuels a couple of things for him. Number one, he has two kids, two and under,

and he feels like he's lost his wife. Number two, he's got two kids, two and under, and he loves his kids with all of his heart, but he's got some skills that he doesn't understand. And so it's natural to want to lean into the things that I'm good at. I know how to hide in the woods and shoot a deer. I do not know how to entertain a seven-month-old. And without some intentionality, I'm just going to lean this away.

And if this hobby doesn't fulfill it, I'll find this one. And this one, I'll fulfill it. All we're doing is just trying to find something that's going to fill that gap. And now we're just talking past each other. My guess is he would want more than anything in the world is to be a participant in the life of his wife and kids. And being out in nature, going out and exhaling and finding hobbies and things like that are really important for people. So it's twofold. You need to find some hobbies. Okay. And y'all need to come to terms with,

hey, so I'm a big hunter. I don't talk about it a lot because I know people don't like it. I'm out in the woods a lot, a lot, a lot. And this past fall, I traveled all over. And so my wife and I had some conversations, like, here's what I need.

I can't, I need you, your presence here. And I need, she's got things that she likes to do. So I need to go do my hobbies too. And so I had to make peace with, I'm on the road a lot. So the time I'm gonna spend in the woods is gonna be less this year. But it's a conversation we had together, but it was very needs-based. Not, I need you here just sitting on the couch.

No, no, no. Right. I need your son and daughter, neither daddy. And here's what that looks like. And I need you to be on the floor with us. I need you to be here for four hours because I need to go do some hiking on my own. Right.

Instead of saying, well, you get to do this and I get to do that. And so now I'm just pissed off and I'm mad at you. You know what I mean? Because then it becomes about the hobby and the hobby is not the issue. The issue is I've got a picture of what this weekend is going to look like. And you have a picture of what the weekend is going to look like. And now we're just talking past each other. Does that make sense?

Yep. That makes perfect and all of that on top of your body's a human jungle gym nobody's sleeping and you're working he's probably not made the adjustment like most most most young dads don't make the adjustment on your domestic responsibilities increase 50 i need you here and here's what i need from you here's what this looks like and so having a conversation about what needs look like and y'all have to do that probably every month or two because they're going to change these kids are going to change like crazy is that hard can you hear that yeah yeah i mean i understand what you're saying

yeah but you don't like that tell me we don't like it no no no it's not that i don't like it it's a it's a communication thing that that we need to work on i mean i i see what you're saying but i hadn't really i had been focusing so much on the actual hobby but i don't think i was looking i was you know zooming out and looking at maybe it's not the fact that he does X or Y. It's the idea behind why he's doing it. So I think that makes sense. Let me say it this way. Okay.

There's like him walking in all gross and dirty and stinky, covered in camouflage, whatever, at dark. And he had said he's going to be back at two or three, and he gets back at dark. And you're mad, and you start telling yourself stories about being mad and what he's doing out there, and he doesn't appreciate all the crap you do. And you work a job, right, so the story machine's running,

and he gets home, and you're like, no more hunting. No more. There's that. And then there's a Tuesday evening after the kids are down and you all exhale and you have a weekly, what's our picture look like for this week meeting? And you look at him across the table and say, I miss you. I miss you. And everything in our world has blown up. It's all different.

It's good, but it's all different now. And I'm tired. You're tired. We're both working really hard. I miss you. And we got to rebuild something new. We got to recreate something new because multiple human bombs have gone off in our home.

And so we're going to have to rebuild something new. That's a totally different conversation. It will eventually get to the story I tell myself is every free moment you have, you'd rather spend it not with us. That's the story I tell myself. Right. But if you tell him you'd rather be hunting than being with your kids. Yeah. Now I'm lobbing grenades. If you tell them the story I'm telling myself is you would rather be sitting in the woods covered in a dead animal's blood than holding your kids.

That's the story you're telling. And that's a much different approach. One of those turns him on his default setting and he's going to get Sunday dad grumpy, right? Mm-hmm, yeah. Or he's going to get angry and yell. Which one is he? Yeah, angry and yell. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're always yelling around here? No, no, no. Hey, it scares me when you yell. See the difference there? It makes me feel unsafe when you yell and scream like a child in the house. I'd much rather you go for a walk and then come back and say, hey, here's what I'm struggling with

or wrestling with. Those two approaches get to the same issue, but one is a path of war and one is a path of, hey, help me out here because I don't feel safe. Or the story I tell myself,

I'm taking ownership of this. See the big difference there? I do. Okay. And there's a big difference. You're right. Yeah. I see it.

I find that it helps me to write things down before I enter into a conversation with my wife on these topics. A good example happened just yesterday. And by the way, the more we make these regular occurrences, the better our relationships get. Kelly and I and Joanna, who works in PR here, we did a quick like 28-hour trip, 36-hour trip to California, which is two time zones. It's a long trip. We had an incredible experience with the Mind Pump guys, and we'll have some shows coming out about that later on, but great trip. The trip was awesome. And as we were coming back, we got home at 4 a.m. is when I rolled in, and I had a picture in my

head of what homecoming was going to look like. It's 100% a story I told myself, made up the whole thing, and then it didn't happen. And my daughter's going to art camp and my wife was getting her ready. And it just didn't happen in the way I had pictured in my head. And then I started getting defensive about it. And then all of a sudden I find myself getting mad. Like I just not mad, like not yelling, but I feel mad in my chest, like, man. And then I had to pull the thread on that very quickly, and it was, oh, yeah, I told myself a story about what homecoming was going to look like, and it doesn't look like that.

Okay, and then I can grieve it real quick and be like, man, and then my wife and I are going to have our weekly meeting, and I can say, hey, this fall when I'm traveling, here's what homecoming, like I get these pictures in my head of what this looks like and then I feel like so I can take ownership of this and realize that

she didn't do anything to make me mad my wife didn't my daughter didn't my dogs didn't the chickens didn't I owned the whole narrative walking into this and in this case

maybe he is like I've got friends who are hunters and fishermen that they disappear it's their mistress they cheat on their spouse with their hobbies or playing guitar Like I've got friends who are hunters and fishermen that they disappear. It's their mistress. They cheat on their spouse with their hobbies or playing guitar or whatever the thing is. I get that.

And that's a hard conversation that everybody's got to have, but it's always better done better with. The story I'm choosing to tell myself is this. That's a great entry point versus if you go hunt, right? And man, Mary, it's lucky to have you. It's lucky to have you. We'll be right back. All right, we're back. Let's go to Becky in Austin, Texas.

What's up, Becky in Austin? Hey, Dr. John, just setting down the bricks. All right, here we go. What'd you set down? Oh, you know, I have been following you from the beginning. You and AO talking about what your podcast name was going to be. And you and your team have just helped me so tremendously with personal growth. So hats off to you guys. You have a guest.

Thank you so much. The purpose of my call today, my son-in-law of two and a half years threw a grenade into the middle of trust I had in him with infidelity. And I'm struggling. You cheated on your daughter? Yeah. And I'm struggling with how to handle a conversation. Do I have a conversation? Do I not have a conversation?

I know that it's their thing and I'm not in it. I've shared with my daughter quite a few of your podcast segments. Explained to her. I mean, I was just so mad. I was so mad. And she was devastated. I was devastated. But, you know, I said, these things happen.

And it's part of life. And you can grow past it. You can grow together. But he's sick and he needs some help. And she, she knows that. And he knows that. Um, and I haven't seen him and I knew at the time I was so mad. Don't talk, text or type man to stay, stay away. Cause I didn't want to say the wrong thing.

Um, but I, I'm going to see him, you know, and I don't want it to be where it's this elephant in the room that no one talks about. But at the same time, I don't think there's anything I can tell him that he doesn't already know. I don't want to lay guilt and shame, and I just don't know how to approach it. Well, thank you for being the single most mature mother-in-law I think I've ever talked to on this show. It's incredible. It's because of you. Yeah, right. No, I know there's a lot of mature mother-in-laws that call, but like your wisdom here is incredible. It's just incredible. Thank you. I'm trying to think of where to start here. Relatively, like, I instantly know where I want to go with this, but I want to circle around it just for a second.

Okay, start. What was your relationship with this young man before this? You know, they were together for about a year before they got engaged. He was not from our town, the area where we live. So I didn't know him. I did not know his family. I've noticed, you know, he's always welcome in my home. I felt like I had a good relationship with him,

but I noticed that I think he was uncomfortable ever being in the same room with me by himself. I noticed that if my daughter left to go, that I think he was uncomfortable ever being in the same room with me by himself. Okay. I noticed that if my daughter left to go, they have a little toddler. If she went to go tend to the baby, he would get up and kind of follow her. And I always would ask him, how's your work? How's your family? Just kind of scratching the surface and just general conversation,

but no in-depth, deep conversation with him ever. I know he's had a lot of issues growing up in his family, lots of dysfunction with the same infidelity issues. So I'm kind of connecting all the dots. He knows it's wrong. He swore he would never do it. And then he did. And I'm like, okay. So the only relationship you can impact is your relationship with him. And so I want you to spend your energy not trying to fix their marriage or to become a marriage, like have a radar for their marriage. They're going to have to figure that out. I also think it's wise at some point, and this is going to be really tough, for your daughter to have another confidant other than her mom when it comes to deep marital issues. Yeah. And I, just to speak to that, she, um, she texted me, he, he's working like five hours away and she texted me out of the blue and said, Hey,

can you watch the baby this weekend? I'm like, what, what's going on? And she said, well, I just, I need to go, you know, I need to go see my husband and that she wouldn't say, well, and it's very uncharacteristic for her just at the last minute. Hey, can you watch him? I got to go. And so I called her and she was bawling and she, you know,

so I just kind of walked right into it. It's not, otherwise I don't think she would have told me. Yeah. She, she did not, has not told her dad because she's afraid of the repercussions on that side. But anyway, but yeah, I understand where you're coming from.

And she has not mentioned anything since about, and I haven't asked, you know, have y'all gotten help? Have y'all seen a guy? I just kind of have backed out. Are you assuming that she's staying in the marriage? Yes. It seems to me that they're working on it. They want to get with better help, you know, and he has a counselor and she has a counselor. Actions speak louder than words. Sure. All day long. We'll see how that plays out. But yeah, I believe she's putting forth

her best effort to try to work through it. Okay. Last question before I start walking into it. Have you and your husband dealt with infidelity? Of course, across your marriage. Um, we've been, we've been divorced for 12 years when we were married. No, um, no, not my, on my family, my parents. Yes. I have lived through that. So I think that's why it's such a core subject for me, you know? Yeah.

Okay. So I'm assuming that they are working this thing out and that at this point, your daughter has, the one that you feel confident you raised well, is a good young mom, has got a good head on her shoulders, that she has looked at this situation in her life and said, this is a relationship that I want to continue to invest in.

Good for her, okay? Yeah. Any sort of trying to get in between that, her and that decision, is just an opportunity to drive a wedge into some relationship and I just don't see any value in it. Right.

The second thing is, you said he was sick. Does he struggle with addiction? Why do you say he's sick? Because the manner in the way this happened and how she found out, it's like basically he contacted a prostitute but didn't have to pay her. I mean, this is not someone he had an emotional connection with or worked with. I mean, it just came out of the blue from what she understands.

And she was saying, you know, Mom, that's sick. That's sick. And I said, yeah, it is. It is sick. He's sick. He needs help. Okay. I feel like he's got some alcohol dependency.

Okay. But that's not me to speak into, you know? Yeah. If there is addiction issues that are making your daughter and your grandchild unsafe, it is yours to speak into, okay? So the way I frame this is not by your hand but in your lap. You didn't cause any of this, but your daughter called you. She brought you into this. And I'm going to keep my grandchild safe.

I'm going to my grandchild safe. I'm gonna keep my daughter safe. And if she chooses to stay with this guy, then I'm gonna model what healthy relationships look like. And healthy relationships do not have elephants in rooms. They don't have secrets and they forgive. And like you mentioned, they set bricks down and they lean in relationally. And so in my head, I'm trying to think through if this is my daughter, and this happens with her husband. And she calls me and says, well, you keep our baby.

I got to go deal with my husband. And then I call her and say, what's wrong? And she's weeping. And now I'm brought into this thing. Yes, I'm going to be pissed off. I'm going to have to deal with my own issues. That's for me as a grownup to deal with myself, right? Right. So I'm gonna go have my friends and my community. If I gotta reach out to a counselor, I'm gonna do that myself. But when it comes to the relationship, I would sit down with a young man and say, I got brought into this.

So here we are, you hurt my daughter and you violated our trust and our family. You threw a grenade here. And she's choosing to stay, which means you're a part of my life now. And that means I would probably do something symbolic

for a young man in this situation, like put it on a brick and put tape on it, like masking tape on it and write it down, cheated on my daughter so he could see it and say,

when she called me that night, I've been carrying this around because it hurt me. I lived through this in my family and all that, right? And then the symbolic, and from this point forward, I'm setting it down. But here's what setting it down is going to look like. You and me are going to have breakfast together or you and me are going to, like, I'm going

to lean into this discomfort in the relationship. And I'll tell you, if you tell them, I feel like every time we're in the same room together, there's some awkwardness. I'm the mother-in-law, so I'll own it. But I want to get to know you. And I want to spend some time with you. So I'm going to reach out and I want to go do Denny's breakfast once a week.

Or if they live too far away, then we're going to fill in the blank. But I want him to see he violated this thing, but he's still going to be a part of your life, and so I'm going to lean in on the healing part of it. And then you can do the good parent thing and say, and if you ever hurt my daughter again, right, I'm a person with special skills.

I'll never find you, and that kind of thing. And you got to wink at him. But I think there's something about if you're interested in healing the relationship, and I get that from you. You're interested in healing this thing. You just don't know what's next. Avoidance never works. Right. Secrets destroy families.

Unhad conversations destroy families. Now, your daughter could come to you and say, please, God Almighty, do not mention anything to him. Don't talk to him. Don't bring it up. It can't happen. And I would push her on that because she brought you into this. Yeah. And she might even say that I'm never going to tell you again. You could say, great, great.

That's fine. But you told me about this one. Yeah. And if he's going to be in my house and I want to invest in this relationship Because it's a part of your life The sucky thing about boundaries Is that other people can use them too Right

Okay And they can use them to cut you out Just as much as you can say Here's how my house is gonna look like I hope that that isn't the case here Hopefully he is really repentant and remorseful And is getting the help that he needs and also can be changed over time

by the love of his mother-in-law. Maybe the first time somebody's reached out and loved him. Other than, not in a romantic way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But holy smokes, that'll be hard, right? Man, yeah. You know, your kids are young. The mama bear doesn't go away

When they become adults No no no there's some great research On women and aggression Especially with their kids Men get the aggression stuff All the time in the popular media But like man Mama bear dude that's for real

That's for real Yeah yeah So okay well this has been very helpful How does that sound For real. That's for real. Yeah, yeah. So, okay. Well, this has been very helpful. How does that sound? Good. I think, yeah, just sitting down with him and how he approached it, that, hey, I got brought into this.

And like I said, I don't want to guilt him or shame him because I feel like he's living enough of that right now. He's very remorseful, and I don't want to throw darts at him. That would not be helpful at all. So if you're trying to help somebody not live in shame, the only way to not live in shame is to turn the lights on and have vulnerable relationships. Yeah. And is it Brene Brown that says, shame eats secrets for breakfast.

That's what fuels shame. And so she's not gonna do this. And the path to freedom for him is some really uncomfortable conversations with people he hurt. And those people saying, and I see all of you and I still love you. And I see all of you.

And now you gotta go to breakfast with me once a week. Ha ha ha. Yeah. And it may be so awkward. Stay on the line. I'm going to send you all of them. Every pack of conversations with humans, cards that we have.

I'm going to send you all of them. That would be awesome. But here's the deal. Yeah. You can use them and you can say, I got these stupid cards for us to learn how to, not to learn, you don't have to say anything.

Just say, hey, I got these cards and we're going learn how to, not to learn, you don't have to say anything. Just say, hey, I got these cards and we're going to go to breakfast until we go through every one of these decks. The ones for work, the ones for couples, it's going to get weird between me and you, right? But I think that would be a great way to get to know this guy.

And he may hurt your daughter again. And you can tell him, you've played your card now. Okay? The next time you hurt my daughter, the next time you violate our trust, her trust as a family, that you, this is going to be a different conversation than we have. Okay? Or my boundaries will look different.

And that's okay to have hard boundaries and accountability and all that kind of stuff. I think that's really important. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think she would stay if it happened again. And that's why when I talked to her, I explained to her your scenario about the twin towers and you know, they have to do something totally new. Yeah. And it may be that he's not working five hours from home anymore, but part of that is a new job. And a part of that is new.

Everything's got to be different now and everything's gonna be on the table. They may have to move away and go live somewhere else. Everything's on the table now, right? When you're rebuilding after infidelity, especially in a young marriage with a young kid, everything's different now. And great, good, cool, awesome. The thing you can control in all that is you.

And even sit down with your daughter. I'd recommend you sit down with her and have a hard conversation. Let her know that you'll be there for her. Let her know that she needs to get close compadres and friends and community, and you need to have a conversation with this guy and all that moving forward.

That's a tough one. I'm just thinking through that. My blood boils just thinking about that. And hopefully my daughter's not married for a long, long time. And hopefully she never experiences that. But the data tells me she might. And man, all of us have hard conversations.

We have to look in the mirror before we have and say, well, what's our goal of this conversation? And how can we bring about both boundaries and healing? Man, this guy's lucky to have you. This is mother-in-law. He won the lottery. We'll see you soon. We'll be right back.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to.

We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn

to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out

a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, let's take one more. Let's go to Janelle in Seattle. What's up, Janelle? Hello, Dr. John. How are you? I'm good.

How are you? Good. Good. I guess I have a question. I'll just start out. I feel like my husband and I are never on a team. I want to respect him and his personality, but I just, I can't get past the irresponsibility and the weight he has me carry.

And I just, I just don't know how to deal with it. It's been like eight years and it just seems like we just can't get on the same page. I don't know what to do. Oh, man. I'm sorry. Like just before we even dig in, like that's a, that's hard, huh? Yeah. Yeah. And, and we've, we've talked about it, argued about it. Um, like financially I've done the every dollar app. I have it all done. All he has to do is look at it and tell me where I overspent.

And he just doesn't care. And I just don't know what to do about it. I'm like, please tell me to stop spending or something. Just have an opinion. And he just doesn't. So it's hard. So they gave me some notes on this. Jenna gave me some notes.

Says that y'all have been through bankruptcy together. Tell me about having to buy a house from your parents. Yeah, yeah. So when we got married, it was like three months after we got married, I got hit with, he told me that he owed like tons of money to the IRS. How much? And I didn't like 70,000. Okay.

And his mother was doing his books. And so his books weren't very well done, you know? And so we did a refinance on his house and I really didn't want to do it, but I felt like, well, we're married. So we, I kind of had to, um, then he had a business on his own and, um, found out that his business partner was stealing money from him, like $10,000. And the only reason we found out is because I said, you need to go through the books and make sure everything's done. Um, then he, he ended up, he was drinking, um, a lot. And so, um, I felt like I needed to move closer to family. And so after bankruptcy, which

I was pretty devastated cause I don't, like that's not how I am. You know what I mean? So it was pretty embarrassing. And then we bought a house from my parents. And it just feels like my whole life is based off of his decisions. And I just feel like I'm constantly coping. You know what I mean? That you're getting dragged around aimlessly.

Right. And so when y'all have these conversations, he just blows them off? He gets really defensive. Yeah. And he is really extreme. And then he, like he'll say, well, I'll just take over everything and we'll just move, you know, in to another state.

You know, we have kids, so I'm not going to drag them all through this. But so I'm trying to keep it stable. So your kids are getting dragged through it. Yeah. There is no protecting them from this. They're absorbing every second of it. I know. And it's,

and it's hard. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. No, I know it's hard. Um, the,

I'll, we'll stay together for them or, um, my husband's an alcoholic. He cheats on me. He's abusive. He doesn't come home. He's bankrupt us.

He's not doing it. But the kids. Right. That, yeah, they can often become a proxy for making hard decisions. He's bankrupt us. He's not doing it. But the kids. Right. Yeah. They can often become a proxy for making hard decisions or they become an excuse for making hard decisions. Right? Right. Have you and your husband sat down and talked about divorce, separating out?

There have been conversations. We've gone to marriage counseling, um, and it seems like he still has me carry those bricks. Tell me about it. You know, the backpack. When you say you've got to carry stuff, what are you being forced to carry? The finances. I take care of all of the bills. What happens if you say, I'm going to stop?

They won't get paid. Okay. So you are married to a child. Yeah. Okay. Do you feel much, the words you're using sound much more maternal, like you're his mother. Yeah. And whenever, and this is a super common thing, so I don't want you to feel like you're on an island by yourself. But when one or the other spouse takes on more of a parental role, there's a different intimacy there.

Nobody wants to sleep with their son, and nobody wants to hook up with their mom, right? So it has a glitch in that relationship. And then that intimacy ripples through every, right? So it just becomes a domino that falls. Have you, when you've sat down with him before, and I know you've probably had a million conversations, what does he say about like, I don't want to be your mom anymore? He gets defensive.

What does that mean? Because that's what children do. They get mad. They spit. They throw things. They kick things. Yeah, it's pretty much slamming doors, yelling, you know, just about how he can't do anything right. It's a child response.

Yeah, I guess so. It is. It's a grown-up temper tantrum. I'm taking my ball and going home. Fine, we'll just move. Yeah. We'll never come back. Shut up.

Like, right? I mean, it's a child. Yeah. I need a grown-up to sit down across the table with me and say, are you going to do marriage with me anymore? Yeah. Are we going to protect our kids? Right. Are we going to ever fix the sexual intimacy issues in our marriage? Are we ever going to have some kind of firm financial footing where we're on the same page and we're on the same team?

Right? You see what I'm saying? Right. That's a different – yeah, it's hard to be married to a child. It's really hard to be married to timber tantrums. And my guess is if he was on the phone with me, he could probably point back to a few places in his life when a child had to take over and start defending him from things.

Oh, yeah. Sure. And that child's still playing defense for him. And so that child kept him alive at one point, kept him safe at one point and now that child is destroying everything around him. Right? Yeah.

And so the question is, is there a way that you can communicate with him? Have you sat down ever and said, I need to like, normally when I talk to couples in this situation, the conversations, the deep talks always happen during fights.

Yeah. And it feels like a great moment when finances are secure, he's got a good job, things are okay to circle back and say, we need to have a big, we need to have a big, we need to have a couple of hard conversations. I'd like to plan a half day.

Would he do that with you? He would. I think it's, for me, it's the follow-up. You know, like you said you were gonna do, like I've asked him like, can we please go over the finances once a month? Like the beginning of the month, please. And the, every dollar is already done. You can see where all the money is spent and we need to go over. But you see, you see that that's, I would say that's one of the big challenges because you've

made every dollar a math problem. Yeah. It's a different conversation to say i don't feel safe yeah i've told him that i feel completely and totally alone without you and when you don't participate it's i can do the budget i'm a grown woman i i can pay our bills i feel like you would rather kick and scream and throw a temper tantrum than help your wife feel safe. Yeah. That's a totally different conversation. And if he doesn't respond to that, which some marriage partners don't, oh, get over yourself.

It's just a stupid budget. Then the next response is, I have to make decisions about, do I want to be married to somebody who's not going to participate in my marriage? Right. Because really you feel dragged around. It's the other way around. You're dragging him around.

And I think you're tired of carrying somebody in addition to your kids, in addition to your own things. And you're probably by carrying him, probably carrying his family around and all that other drama. And you've got the shame that you're carrying around but all that, you're tired. I am. Tired.

It is. It's tired and there's just, it just seems like there's so much outside drama that it's just. That's right. Yeah.

Yeah. And so a lot of this gets put on, on him and he's a huge contributor, make no mistake, but my guess is there's a huge contributor, make no mistake. But my guess is there's a lot of just mess. Right? There's just stuff.

And so I think a valuable exercise would be to sit down and say, all right, I'm going to write this stuff down. What is really on me? And you might find out that it's his brother that comes over every Wednesday that always, you know, like, whatever. Like, who knows what all the things are once you start writing them down. But I'm going to write these things down. And you have to come up with your or what statement.

And an or what statement is couples who have reached a point where, like, we need to decide if we're going to stay married or not. We're going to have to decide if we're going to stay married or not. We're going to have to decide if we're going to keep dating or not. If these things don't change, or what is, then I'm going to go. Or if you know in your heart and mind, I will never leave. I'm never going to leave.

Then the alternative is to make peace with where we are. And there is often a blending of the two. Here's an example in my own home, okay? I talked about this a little bit on the show. I'm a mess. I have a... I'm just kind of all over the place.

And my wife is very list-makey and very on-timey and very, like, things got to be done in this way. And I've tried. I can't operate in the world that way. And I also know that putting my shoes away

is a sign to my wife that I love her and value her. And so here's a compromise. I got home at 4 a.m. the other day. I didn't unpack. I opened up my suitcase, grabbed some underwear out, jumped in the shower

and got in bed and went to sleep. I was exhausted. Okay. You have no idea what it's like trying to sleep on a plane next to Kelly who's listening to her 80s metal singing. I'm just kidding.

She wasn't singing. But so she walks in at 8 o'clock in the morning. There's a half-open suitcase. There's stuff strewn everywhere. She's able to exhale and say he got in late last night. Her first thought isn't figures.

He's acting like a child, stupid baby. Her first thought is, man, he must be exhausted. And then when I got up and I stumbled around, got my coffee, went out and did my little weird morning routine, then I could immediately say, what's the best way I can honor my wife right now? And you get this crap cleaned up. You see what I'm saying? It's about how can I meet your needs and how can I meet my needs? That's how we found some peace in the middle there.

It's not either or. In her perfect world, you get home at 4 a.m., you unpack, you put everything where it goes, you start a load of laundry, then you go to bed, right? And then you make up your bed. My perfect day is I'll unpack in a few weeks when I'm leaving town again, right? So we're going to find peace in the middle. All that happens because I'm committed to meeting her needs and she's committed

to meeting mine. And if you can't have that with a partner, you've got to decide, am I in or am I out? And then what are the effects on the kids? Do you know what I mean? The kids need well parents. Yeah. The kids need well parents.

And you're not okay. And your husband's not okay. Mm-hmm. And your husband's not okay. And so any sort of pseudo performance to try to make them the reason why this chaos continues. The times for me that we're staying together for the kids works is if we're staying together and we are so committed to making this marriage thing work. Yeah. Then a hundred percent figured out. Yeah. thing work. Then a hundred percent figure it out. But when grenades are going off and there's abuse in the home or there's

deception and infidelity and all these things, but we're staying together for the kids, the kids are getting a ringside seat as to what marriage and love look like. And they're getting a ringside seat to what a beat down, exhausted mother looks like. And a lying, deceiving,

scheming husband looks like. Or somebody who throws temper tantrums. Oh, that's what grown men do when someone holds a mirror up to them. They throw a temper tantrum and they kick and scream and take their ball and go home. That's what they're getting.

Yeah. Sometimes there's a gap and there's the stay together or the divorce. Sometimes Terry real talks about a 30 day timeout. People are yelling and screaming 30 day timeout. And here's the, he's actually got on his website, the rules of the 30 day timeout. I got to get some space. Right. And I'm not saying that's the right thing for you guys. I'm saying there's an option between we're all out of here overall. Right.

Um, at some point your husband's got to decide, is he in or is he out? Yeah. And that's it. It's gotten to the point where we, we don't even like, if we argue it's,

it's in our bedroom and there's, there's not a lot of screaming except for like maybe once every six months he might just go off. You know what I mean? Um, but it's, I just feel more than anything. Like you said, just that beat down, like, and that's, that's some of that comes from when you write down your needs. One of the needs will be, you will never yell at me again. Okay. You will never scream in this home. You will not raise your voice and kick things in this house. And the moment y'all are in a disagreement, every marriage has disagreements. I had one this morning. Every marriage has disagreements. Right. The moment a voice gets

raised, you can say, hold on, hold on. I will not be talked to like that. I will be back later. And you head out the door. Yeah. And he can kick and scream and yell. Knock your lights out, brother. I'm not going to be in the presence of this. Okay. That's what a boundary is. And for most children,

they bang their heads up against boundaries to see if they hold. Okay. And if they don't hold, they keep pushing until they find something in their life that holds firm. And so you've probably told them a million times, I'm not doing their bills anymore. And then five days later, you're like, I got to pay the bills. Yeah, there was like one time I said, can you take this to the post office? And it sat in the truck for a month. And the follow-up is, you always let us, you never do this.

I always, I just need one thing or the other is, when you didn't drop this off, the story I told myself is you don't care about me. You don't care about the safety of our kids. You don't care about us having of our kids. You don't care about us having a water and running water in our home. That's your behavior is a language and your behavior told me you don't care. Yeah. And it's not me yelling and screaming. That's me saying, hey, here's what your behavior is telling me. And it makes me scared. It makes me sad. And part of my values are, I'm not going to be in relationships that make me scared or sad. Yeah. I get to choose that. Yeah.

And any step forward with a child, if you say, hey, these things, I need you engaged at this level, or I'm not interested in continuing this relationship, a hundred percent expect the only response that he seems to have, which is to act like a child. And, oh, you're going to take my kids away from me? You're going to take my... The same as if you tell your kids, no, you cannot have Fruity Pebbles for dinner again. Oh, you never let us do anything.

You're the worst. I hate you. It's a child response. And until your husband decides to address the child who's been protecting him his whole life and to go back and deal with some of that heavy trauma that he's experienced, I almost guarantee yes. And come to terms with being a participant in his home, meaning he's a participant in his family, meaning he's a participant in his own life, meaning he's worth being loved and he's worth loving himself and he's worth healing from some of that nonsense. And let me tell you, it can happen. I've seen it happen. It takes a lot of work, but it can happen. It's hard.

It's been incredible. Until he does that, he's going to get back to like a child. And children are really hard to be married to. We made laws and such. So sorry that you're exhausted. I can hear it on you. I can hear it on you. We'll be thinking about you in your journey.

Try to sit down and decide, here's what I'm worth. Here's what my values are. Here's what I need in this relationship. And then have a conversation about what that's going to look like moving forward. My hope is that he jumps in and goes all in and says, I hear you this time. Let us know how that half-day retreat goes. I'm fascinated to hear the follow-up. And if he ever wants to, tell him to call me.

I'd love to chat with him. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book,

Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, a guy lives down the street here, man. One of the greatest guys I've had a chance to meet is a lovely human being, Brad Paisley

And the song is, I'm gonna miss her And it goes like this Well, I love her, but I love to fish I spend all day out on this lake And hell is all I catch Today she met me at the door Said I would have to choose If I hit that fishing hole today

She'd be packing all her things And she'd be gone by noon Well, I'm gonna miss her when I get home. But right now I'm on this lake shore and I'm sitting in the sun. I'm sure it'll hit me when I walk through that door tonight. Yeah, I'm going to miss her. Oh, lookie there. I got a bite.

The best songwriters of my generation, Brad Paisley. Awesome. Hey, so glad you're with us. We'll see you soon on the Dr. John Deloney Show.