The Dr. John Delony Show - What Tools Do I Need To Overcome My Fear of Flying?

Episode Date: December 26, 2022

On today’s show, we hear about: - A man suffering from extreme flight anxiety - A woman still grappling with why her father left their family - A sexual abuse survivor wondering how to start healthy dating relationships Lyrics of the Day: "Learn to Fly" - Foo Fighters Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. How do you find the right partner, in my case, husband, after experiencing childhood sexual abuse? I don't know what's normal in my head. I see other people in relationships and I obviously see it on TV, read about it in books. I don't feel like I know what to do. Woo! What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

The greatest mental health and marriage parenting podcast ever. Happy day after Christmas. For those of you who survived Christmas, hopefully we all survived Christmas. It's one of my favorite things about recording a show that's four weeks, three to four weeks out, is, I don't know, maybe you all get hit by a meteorite one night and the show's never air. But we're talking about this.

I hope that doesn't happen. Hey, I hope you had a great Christmas. Hope you got all the stuff that you wanted. Hope you gave, like, you gave and you gave and you gave. And I hope you don't have a huge credit card bill to deal with now. Hope you were wise in your spending and in your giving. And here we are. We're a couple of days from New Year's.

My favorite, favorite, favorite, favorite, favorite time of the year. And I want to say personally, I'm so grateful. The Christmas deck of questions for humans sold out in eight seconds. The New Year's deck sold out in 32 seconds. And now we have created for questions for humans, second editions for friends and for lovers and multiple groups. And here's what I want you to think about. This is on my New Year's resolution list. I got wildly busy. I didn't get wild. I just got lamer, but I got really busy in 2022. And I told my wife the other day, oh my gosh, I travel the country telling people to make sure they have

friends and community and connection. And I found myself in a season of being really lonely again. And that's a hundred percent on me. I worked like crazy. I traveled like crazy. I got home and I would just collapse instead of reaching out. And I took opportunities to not be weird and just be, yeah, I was going to go to bed. I'm just going to read a book or whatever. And so this year, I'm being highly intentional about getting out there and surrounding myself with some community. And I've got a couple of new buddies who moved to town. I've got some friends that I've made over the last couple of years since I've lived in Nashville. I'm looking forward to it.

I'm excited to do it. And one of those components is going to be these questions for humans. Second edition. Those are coming, by the way. We're not there yet, but they're coming. do it. And one of those components is going to be these questions for humans. Um, second edition, those are coming by the way, we're not there yet, but they're coming. Um, so, Hey, let's do this real quick. Let's do questions for humans, friends, second edition in the booth. Nobody's looking at me. Let's do this. All right. Ask a question. You're just producing the heck out of this thing. Aren't you? I'm just filling in and doing my best I can. Whatever. Okay. What obscure podcast are you obsessed with right now?

I don't know if it's obscure because I think people know that I love murder like Kelly, but Murder With My Husband. That's the name of a podcast? It's the name of a podcast. Murder With My Husband? Murder With My Husband. And I try to get my husband to listen to it with me, but he does not like it as much as I do we can if we listen to it he's like one at a time that's all he can take um he doesn't is it does he have to ration it because of the murder yes yes yes he does but he still sometimes will listen to it with me but it's it's pretty cool it's a wife who she knows

all about these cases and she's like informing her husband of them and telling him about them. I hope that you and your husband just, I don't know what I say to that. Like do murder well together or I hope murder is- We're just educated. Oh, geez. Okay. I still don't listen to a lot of podcasts. I would say the most obscure one I listened to, it's not obscure, is The Drive with Dr. Peter Attia. I think he's one of the most brilliant men on the planet. Hopefully we're going to have him on the show here

in the next few months. He's got a new book coming out that I'm super excited about. That's probably the most, I don't know. I still listen to a lot of podcasts. Okay, last one. Be honest and you can't lie, Jenna.

And let's be honest, that's one of the challenges you struggle with is you don't tell the truth a lot How often do you change your bed sheets? once a week Lie, no, I do once a week and I watch them on sundays as my I change out my sheets Really sarah does too. Yes My wife does too Okay, your wife does yes yeah she yes honestly if it was up to me to change my bed sheets it would probably be like an annual plan

a semi-annual plan you do every day no not every day i mean every week yes what happens do you not shower before you go to bed oh my gosh i do. But think about like all when you're sleeping, the dead skin cells, like throughout the week. No, oh gosh, once a year. I would do it more than once a year. Once a week seems like, oh, like not great. Our ancestors slept in leaves, in piles. And then we've evolved and we've learned.

We've evolved. Oh we've learned. We've evolved. Oh, man. Jeez, we have overly hygienic people in the booth. Hey, for those of you who... Questions for humans, everybody, go pick them up. Go to johndeloney.com. There's several decks out there. Go grab them.

Just hours of fun. You get to find out all about each other. They're all nodding in there. Joe, how often do you wash your sheets? two weeks that's a little more i can stomach that a little bit more once a week that's so wasteful no it's not it's not no all right not at all all right he's like andrew's like y'all wash your sheets. What is that? That's so strange. Um, all right. Hey, if you want to be on this show, give me a buzz. 1-844-693-3291. We talk about mental health. We talk about what's going on in your life. Talk about healing from abuse

and trauma. Um, what's going on with your kids, going on with your kids' schools, whatever you, whatever you got going on. Give me a buzz. Uh, 1-844-693-3291. And we'll get you on the show. All right, let's go to Jose in, there's no way this is the name of his town, in Niceville, Florida. I love it. Jose, Niceville.

Is that for real? Yes, sir. Dude, I thought you were just giving us a fake name. Niceville. No, not at all. Is it right next to like, nevermind, nevermind. I was going to take us off fake name. Niceville. No, not at all. Is it right next to like... Never mind. Never mind. I was going to take us off the rails.

Hey, so what's up, man? First off, thank you for your call and thank you for everything you do on your show. It has helped me and my family a lot. Thank you. Well, I'm really grateful, man. Thank you. So what's up? What are you working through? So my question is how do I handle anxiety when it comes to flying? So for whatever reason,

recently, I get super anxious. I get nervous. I get sweaty. I get all these different emotions when I start flying. And I don't know. Has there been any changes in your life? Like new kids? Did y'all recently buy a house? You got other stuff going on? Job?

Like jobs kind of wonky? What's going on? So I've been thinking about this a lot. Okay. So recently, in the last two years, my life has been amazing with my wife, with my kids, with my job. It's like everything is flowing in place and I'm scared on losing it. And I don't, my wife and I have been married 14 years and it hasn't been this good

almost ever and so so man I'm smiling oh dude Jose I feel like I'm talking to

a cooler version of myself I hate flying and I fly for a living and I hate it. And I, man, I've, I've been in a season of blessing the last couple of years. It's not going to last forever.

And I have begun to slowly hold onto it tighter and tighter to the point that I'm going to start constricting it. I can already tell, start choking it to death, right? And when I start grabbing for control, all that phobia is, the fear of flying, let's be super clear. Your mortal body is in a tube, a metal tube, flying five or 600 miles an hour, 30,000 feet above the air. Right? So that's insane.

I think we all should be a little bit anxious about that because that's nuts. Our brains don't have an evolutionary switch for flying in a metal tube 30,000 feet above the air. And so we should be a little bit anxious about that. But when you have started to lock in on not losing things, there's just a natural inclination to begin to hold on to things tighter and tighter and tighter. And then your body starts scanning the environment for things it cannot control and it tries to get your attention. And that's all anxiety is. It's just an alarm

system. And there are fewer things more out of control than looking at two dudes that you don't even get to see. They just, you hear their voice and you just trust, hope you guys don't kill us. And I would like the snack please and seltzer water right that's just it's insanity and so here's what I'm going to just tell you what I do okay the first thing is when my body

starts getting anxious about flying and it's kind of a ramp up for me I start packing I put off packing until the very last second and then I create a whirling dervish of chaos and I start throwing crap in. I always forget something and then I get mad. I forgot it. And then I raced to the airport driving too fast because I've now created a situation where I'm going to be late and I'm already amped up. And then I started getting nervous and all the things. I literally will consciously take a deep breath and exhale and drop my shoulders down.

And I will force a giant smile onto my face. And I will say to myself, sometimes out loud, like a person who is no longer well or sane, I know you're just trying to take care of me because I'm getting ready to go flying at 30,000 feet in the air. I'm good. I'm going on this flight. And I head in that way, and I literally will feel that, and I'll let it run through me. And generally speaking, by the time I make it all the way to the gate, and I sit down in kind of a, whew, I'm usually pretty good. A couple of other things that help me is gum.

I'll go through a whole things that help me is gum. I chew, I'll go through a whole pack of sugar-free gum, not a pack of like six, but like a box of gum. Okay. I also have headphones and I've downloaded, you can get on the podcast and download like, I don't know.

It sounds like yoga music or like massage music or something. Binaural beats is something I love. And I will just listen to those. And I just, I basically, here's what I'm accepting. That I have put my hands, my life in the hands of two men or women that I'll probably never make eye contact with. And that I'm probably not going to die.

And if I do, there's nothing I can do about it because I've already decided I'm going to fly. You see what I'm saying? At that point, it's too late. It's too late. The ship has sailed. Like, yeah, it's like, I don't want to fight. I don't want to fight. Well, you're a boxer and they just ding the bell. So you're in a fight now Now the only question is how badly are you going to get beat up or you can actually try to fight back? So when it comes to this, I feel it. I smile about it

I don't go to war with my body Most of the angst with anxiety is fighting the anxiety itself or getting anxious about getting anxious. Have you gotten there yet? I have. So it's the best. Yeah. So for me, it happens like a day before. So the day before, like I'll pack, I'll get ready. Then like, I'll take the kids out. We'll go to the beach. We'll go get dinner. We'll go do something. And I, the, one of the things in my mind is like man what but if this is the last time i see my kids or the last time i see my wife and that whole first day is running through my mind until i get to the airport then when i get to the airport it's like

all right don't die but like how you're saying, I have no control. Yeah. So I actually think the question, what if this is the last day I could see my kids, is a question we should all ask way, way, way more often. Because the majority of us run through our lives as though our current situation is never going to end, both good and bad. Those of us in a season of blessing just assume we're always going to make this much money and our lights are always going to be on. There's always going to be this and the car is always going to start and the tires are never going to be flat. And then we all have a rude awakening coming for us. And those that think I'm always going to be depressed. I'm always going to be anxious. I'm always going to be just a trauma survivor. They have a hard time seeing this, that the sun comes up too. And so I would tell you that don't run from that. Actually sit for a minute. And I would

actually do it more often than just that one day. What if it's the last day I see my kids? One of the things that I did regularly, and I need to get back into it in 2023, is I would write my kids a quick letter. I just want you to know that I love you. I just want you to know that I'm so proud. I'm so grateful that I get to be your dad. And my subversive motive for that was what if this is the last time I get to see him? I want that when their dad dies in a plane crash, which by the way, statistically speaking, is never going to happen. It's never going to happen. You and I, statistically speaking, have way more likelihood that we're going to die in our's never going to happen. You and I, statistically speaking,

have way more likelihood that we're going to die in our cars, frantically driving to the airport than we are in a car, in a plane crash. But I wanted them to have that letter. And for some reason, writing that letter to them before I left town was good. Leaving a letter on my wife's pillow, if she was gone already, or right by where the coffee maker is in the morning when I knew she was going to go first thing in the morning. Man, that gave me peace because I get to say the last words. Does that make sense? No, it does. It makes a lot of sense.

I don't have any problem with you thinking, what if this is the last moment? I think that helps us make our time a little more precious. That's an old stoic philosophy. Memento mori. Remember, we're going to die. It's when that becomes paralyzing and I can't get on a plane and then I can't leave the house and I can't, you know what I mean? That's when it gets too far. That's when our bodies spin out on us. That's why I think showing, actually getting in the car, going to the airport and smiling, dropping your shoulders and saying,

this is it. I'm not going to die. And if I do nothing I can do about it, because I'm getting on this plane. And by the way, real quick, Jose, I want to back out for just one second. Things are really good and you've worked really good to create a non-anxious life. And you're in a season of blessing. And so things like an emergency fund for if you lose your job or if something breaks on the house. Let me say it this way. If worrying or anxiousness is your drug, seasons of peace will feel like hell. They will feel like you're not prepared. You're not ready. It's that dream that you wake up and you're supposed to be giving a presentation at school and you haven't studied or you're the guitarist of a band and you're suddenly on stage. You don't know how to play the song. And that dream comes to life for those of us who have lived lives of worry and anxiousness for whatever reason, seasons of peace feel very foreboding.

I think it's Brene Brown that says we start rehearsing tragedy. We start practicing for when it all goes down. And man, I just decided to quit living like that. I've prepared my life as much as possible for if and when things can happen. I don't have a plan for if the monetary system collapses and we're trading coffee and bullets for food. I don't have a plan for that. My plan is to go find a prepper and do, nevermind. So I've planned appropriately. And now I've been in a season the last four or five years of practicing being at peace It's practicing

Practicing living non-anxiously and it's been incredible Because my body's adjusted And it can gear up when it needs to but most of the time it lives in a state of So good so jose, I want you, I want to challenge you, brother. Intentionally open your hands to your incredible marriage, to your incredible relationship with your kids, to your good situation at home and at work.

Hold those things loosely because they're not going to come and go. Your family's not going to come and go, but there's going to be seasons of good times and seasons of tough times. And if you hang on to the good times so hard, you'll end up suffocating them while they're still good times. Hold on to them loosely, build yourself a non-anxious life, and then learn practice on dealing with whatever comes. Because it's going to come anyway, right?

I might as well not go to war prematurely. I might as well enjoy the peace when there's peace and enjoy the good times when they're good and be prepared for when times get tough. And worrying and being anxious about them never helped with any of those things. I'm grateful, grateful for you, brother, and congratulations on building a non-anxious life. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season.

And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life.

Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online, and you fill out a short survey, and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes

and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney. All right, all right, all right. Let's go to Bloomington, where the flowers bloom. And let's talk to Melanie. What's up, Melanie? How are we doing?

Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I literally couldn't be better. I'm doing pretty good. Good. That's not true.

If I had some gummy candies, I'd be all right. So what's up? What's up? So I'm calling because I struggle with seeing my dad's marriage as something good. And I want to find a way to have peace with being second to my stepfamily. Tell me more about that. So my parents divorced when I was 11 years old because my dad had an affair.

And he married his mistress as soon as the divorce was final. I'm 36 years old right now. And I still see that every time I'm with him. I just never so hold on for 27 years and I'm gonna give you 27 years wouldn't be fair

because you were 11 so you're 36 so let's just say 25 for 11 years you've deliberately chosen misery. Either you've chosen misery, you've chosen to hang out with him in a violation of your own boundaries, wondering the whole time, this 11-year-old little girl, daddy, why are you picking her over us? Why are you picking her over us? And you've continued that conversation or misery you willfully want to go you want him to continue to be your dad you want him to continue to be in your life and you have to be with also

with a woman who you have pegged as the person who helped ruin your life. Why have you chosen this loop for 11 years? I saw how it affected my mom. And she has passed away. She passed away in 2016. Oh, man. And she was just a wonderful person. And it's just like what you just said.

It's hard to see that he chose another family over us. And I've done okay with it for a long while. Like, I have not dwelled on it this entire time. Like it was actually doing okay. What has started up is the last year I've been spending more time with them, like trying because, you know, I love my dad. I want him in my life and I want to be in his life.

I mean, because he's not a bad person. Here's the big question. Does he want you in his life? I believe he does. Okay. Do you want him in your life because you actually love him and care about him? And you've forgiven him

and you want to build a new relationship with him or do you want him because your mom has passed away and he's all you got left or do you want him because you are still desperately hanging onto a fantasy that at some point this all works out? I feel like it's a combination of all of that. All of it. Yeah. Like,

yeah, there's parts of all, all of that. Everything that you just mentioned. So I want to clear all of that everything that you just mentioned so I want to clear all of the decks okay let's just clear everything let's just take our arm and swipe it across the table now we got a clean table

instead of wading through all the junk on this one let's go to the very very end you're 36 fast forward to your 40th birthday what do you want that to look like Let's go to the very, very end. You're 36. Fast forward to your 40th birthday. What do you want that to look like when it comes to you and your dad?

Paint me a very, very vivid picture. I would like us to be closer. Nope. That's too amorphous. Like, paint me who you want at the kitchen, who you want at the dining room table. I would like us to be closer. Nope. That's too amorphous. Paint me who you want at the dining room table. Do you want your dad to swoop you up and take you somewhere? What do you want your 40th birthday to look like?

I would love it if he called me up and said, Hey, I would like to spend time with you on your birthday. This is your 40th. And I love you, and I want to spend time with you today. Just us. And just spend time together. Okay. Doing what?

It doesn't even have to be anything big. We can go to dinner and talk. We can be at his house. As long as she's not there, right? Well, it's not like I

don't hate the woman. It's not that. I just have that block. I don't hate the woman. It's not that. I just have that block. I don't hate the woman. I mean, kind of you do. So, okay, I want to go one layer deeper. Tell me you're sitting at dinner with him. How do you feel? Like right now where you are, put your hand on your chest. How do you feel? You're where you are put your hand on your chest how do you feel

you're sitting at a table with your dad i want more more from him no no no that's not what i'm asking fast forward fast forward to your 40th birthday oh okay the waiter he you just saw it caught your dad sneaking around telling the waiter that it's her birthday and they're gonna do some obnoxious sing-along thing and he sits oh okay the waiter he you just saw caught your dad sneaking around telling the waiter that it's her birthday and they're gonna do some obnoxious sing-along thing

and he sits back down and he smiles at you and he says man so glad to be doing this with you how do you feel in that moment

I would feel very happy why that's happy happy cocaine and cotton candy. That's not real.

How do you feel? Loved. Ah. And you exhaled after you said loved. You feel loved finally. Yes. Okay. That's that 11-year-old girl girl saying why did you pick her over me

yes okay and my promise to you is if all of this played out just from right now just in not just the current state of your relationship and you ended up having that moment it would be mixed with um what you just like this peace piece, this, I feel loved. My dad showed up for my 40th birthday. And what you can't feel now is my guess would be, it would also be filled with rage. Like you wasted 29 or 30 years of your life, right? And so it'd be this weird cocktail

that feels like it would feel good right now. So let me ask you a hard question. Would you be able to invite your dad out and have written him a letter and read him the letter? Part of that letter would say, inside of me is an 11-year-old little girl still wondering why you chose that family over me. Why you chose that family over me why you chose that family over me and mom and if you've got other siblings you can name them and then the other part of that letter is daddy i have a dream that for my 40th birthday you'll just invite me out and we'll get to spend the day together like we never got to do i want to get to know you well enough so that when that happens,

I'm really excited about it. And here's, here's why I'm suggesting you do something like this, or let me ask you like you, the idea that you would do that. How do you feel about that? I, I feel okay with that because I've been holding it in for this whole time.

We've never had that conversation. So I do want to. So I want to validate you. This should be the conversation your dad has with you because he's your dad. Yes. And it's been 29 years and it hasn't happened yet. So you as an adult are faced with a choice. Am I going to walk away?

Or am I going to keep wishing And expect him to read my mind Or even worse, am I going to live in the ambiguity? And what you're doing is a gift to yourself You're just calling him You've been playing poker long enough And he might be bluffing Dad, do you love me? And when you ask

it, when you sit down and read him this letter, he may stop halfway through and say, whoa, I'm out of here. I left this when you were 11 and I'm not here for it anymore. I mean, I'm not here for it now. He could walk out and what you would get is devastating grief. And you'd get some clarity. You'd be able to stop chasing that dragon. The other side of it is you could have 30 more years of relationship with him. But you would have to decide to forgive him and stop carrying that baggage. Yes.

Yeah. It feels like that baggage is protecting you and it's not. It's weighing you down. Or to say it another way, your hatred for him, for what he did to your mom combined, your hatred for him, for what he did to your mom, combined with your love for him as an 11-year-old little girl

still chasing him, chasing him, chasing his blessing, chasing his blessing, chasing his blessing. That combination there, that's just you drinking poison. And unfortunately for him, he can't read your mind. And you're expecting him to be a mind reader. Just call me just call me and he should he should call his daughter

And he just hasn't Yeah No And he probably can't give you a good reason if you sat down said why didn't you call he probably couldn't tell you Other than maybe he said I was I knew you'd be so disappointed. I didn't want to bother you Because he might think he's a burden who knows I don't get inside his head I don't know why he's doing what he's doing. But at the end of the day, what comes next is on you. He has proven he's not going to do that. And if you told me,

dude, I'm out of his life. I'm making peace with this. I'm going to write the letter. I'm not going to send it. I'm going to be done. I'm going to let him know how much he hurt me. I'm going to let him know all the great things that have happened since he walked out on me. And I am going to let him know of the things that I'm doing in my life and the things that are to come. He didn't get to be a part of that. Basically you'd be grieving him just like you grieved your mom. He's gone.

Yeah. Or you can choose to seek reconciliation knowing that that's going to leave you open to be heard again. Yes. But also leave you very open for some clarity. So what do you think? What are you going to do? I think I would like to

write the letter and read it to him I do want to give that a chance do y'all live in the same town? mostly he was living out of state but he's recently

moved back. He comes back more than he used to. Gotcha. So that's how I've been able to spend more time with him. Gotcha. I can't tell you what to do in this situation. Yeah. I would also recommend that you take his relationship with your mom off of your plate.

Because there will be dynamics to that relationship that you will never fully understand because you weren't in it. It wasn't your relationship. All you got to do is see it from one side and experience it as a child. So moving forward, things are about his relationship with you and the ways he's hurt you, the ways he's potentially blessed you. Both of those things are true. And what you two decide what comes next is gonna look like.

And I would even include that language in your letter. None of us can change what happened in the past. The only thing we can change is what happens next. And ask him, are you in? And then be prepared. This is the hard, be prepared to tell him what in means.

This means you take me to breakfast once a week, dad, or once a month, dad. This means we go to movies because you should have taken me to movies when we were kids and you never took me. So now you're playing catch up. Do you have kids of your own? No, I don't. Okay. Are you married? No. no that was an awesome laugh if that time comes you invite him into that too all I have to say is this what do you want that to look like

I can tell you if it was me I would probably air on I would do what you're doing life's too short for me to carry somebody else's bricks. Not going to do it. Life's too short for me to drink poison, hoping that somebody else dies. Life's too short for me expecting people in my life to be mind readers. I've just started being very clear. And sometimes that clearness comes across as like, that guy's a jerk or that guy's demanding. That's fine. But everybody's on the same page.

And that is an infinitely healthier place to be. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of Own Your Past, Change Your Future. I want you to read that as you are writing this letter. Read them. Do those things together. Read the book and write that letter together because the book's going to give you some insight into your own stories that you've picked up along the way and that you've been telling yourself for a long time

about the role you played in your dad leaving, which is nonsense. And then it's going to give you some tools on that one terrifying, scary question. What do we do next? What do we do next? Thanks for sharing your life with us, Melanie. Appreciate it.

Let us know how that conversation goes. Give us a call back because I want to know. Hopefully he grabs your hands across that table and says, hey, honey, I am all in. We'll be right back. All right, we are back. Let's go to my hometown, H-Town, and talk to Ellie. What's up, Ellie?

Hey, how are you? I'm all right. How about you? Pretty good. Very cool. So what's going on there in Houston, Texas? Okay, so my question is, how do you find the right partner, in my case, husband, after experiencing childhood sexual abuse.

I'm only smiling. You just walked into my living room and you sound so kind and you're like, here's a grenade and I've pulled a pin and you have a great day. So tell me more. That's a huge sentence there. Tell me more about that. So I was abused between the ages of 7 and 11 by a really close family friend. Okay.

Man. Can I stop you right there and say I'm sorry? Thank you. Do you know that shouldn't have happened, right? Yes. Okay. All right, good. Okay. So 7 to 11, did your parents know? They did not. They didn't find out until I was 17.

Okay. How'd they find out? And it was... My mom actually read something I had written, like, the only time I had ever written anything down, because I felt like I couldn't take it anymore. And she had to go hunting for it, too. So I guess... I don't know. But she found it, she read it, and she had to go hunting for it too. So I guess, I don't know, but she found it, she read it, and she lost it. Yeah. So they had literally no idea? Mm-mm. Okay.

Where's this guy now? He is dead. He died? Okay. Mm-hmm. How did he pass away a heart attack okay so how old are you now i'm 28 28 how are your teenage years um i mean i did well. I hated school, so I tried to get done with it as fast as I could and, um, moved out as

soon as I could. And it wasn't that eventful. I mean, I was pretty, pretty miserable, I would say, through my teenage years, but, um, no one really asked anything. They were just kind of like, oh, she's just a typical teenager. And then you got the gray junior to keep people off your back and you were just quiet enough and didn't set anything on fire and everybody just kind of let you, let you do your thing. Yeah. And I have, um, a sibling who's a hot mess.

So I think the focus is kind of always on them instead ah so you had a chance to hide? yep okay so you're 28 tell me how what dating has been like for you um uh

not great I feel like I feel like that's the understatement of the day. Not great. Absolutely. Am I not great? I mean, absolutely terrible. I mean, I've had one serious relationship and definitely was not a healthy relationship. What does that mean? I didn't really, really actually trust him. Okay. And it makes me a little nervous.

I'm just afraid that I'm never going to be able to trust anyone. Okay. When you say it wasn't a good relationship and you didn't trust him something happened or something happened regularly what was it he didn't really listen to me i guess like he or he listened to me but he didn't hear me okay when i would kind of say like, these are my boundaries. He didn't really, he didn't necessarily always respect them. And I just have like the most skewed view. I like, I don't know. I don't know what's normal in my head. I like, I,

I see other people in relationships and I see like, obviously see it on TV read about in books like all that kind of stuff but i don't like i don't feel like i know what to do so tell me if i'm off here okay there's this thing um by gewitz and made in and i think it's ophir and lavi two researchers and they have this idea called the sexual self-concept. And it's a conglomeration of things, but it's this idea of the things you think about yourself combined with the experiences you've had that create this way you experience yourself when it comes to sexuality. And when kids are sexually abused, their sexual self-concept, for lack of better terms, it just, it goes to ash. It burns to the

ground. It explodes, right? And so you find yourself, I am good for the sexual pleasure of other people. So you might date somebody and say, hey, I don't want anything physical. And then you find yourself being sexually active with somebody because your sexual self-concept is, my job is to fulfill other people's needs. Or my sexual self-concept is I'm broken because somebody broke me when I was a child and nobody's ever going to fully want me because I'm not, I am, there's something wrong with me.

And so you hold back and don't tell the full truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. And you can't because it's a preservation method. And because you can't tell the full truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. And you can't because it's a preservation method. And because you can't tell the whole truth, you assume, and your body experiences other people aren't telling you the truth. Or worse, maybe because of these secrets that you hold, these things that happened to you, by somebody who you trusted, and more importantly, your family trusted. And even when you no longer trusted, mom and dad continue to trust, which is unmooring. It pulls a child into two different human beings. Suddenly you feel like if I love somebody, I'm going to be a burden to them.

They're going to be worse off because they're with me than they would be otherwise. Are any of those three hitting home? Yes. Definitely. otherwise are any of those three hitting home uh yes definitely what is what happens to your body when you date somebody and i don't mean in a sexual way i mean like in an anxious anxiety response kind of way um i'm just a nervous wreck the entire time. Okay. I mean, I, and you know, you think like, well, I think, okay, if I keep doing this, if I keep putting myself in this situation, eventually it'll get easier, right? No, it does not. Who told you that it would eventually get easier?

I don't know. Myself, I guess. Let me say this um and i can be guilty of this too the only way through anxiety is i mean the only way to heal from anxiety is directly through the middle of it okay when it comes to childhood sexual abuse and adult intimacy, you can't power your way through it. It's got to go in steps. Someone's got to walk with you. Okay. Because it overwhelms the system.

If you just try to just like, all right, my body's doing this thing. All right. I'm just going to go date. I'm just going to do it. I'm going to stand here and smile. Your body goes, oh, hey, Elle. You're clearly not getting our message, so here's what we're going to do. We're going to shut the whole thing down right here in the movie theater.

You want to watch? Because here it goes. See what I'm saying? Yes. Or you're at dinner, and you find yourself crying for no reason or laughing hysterically or he just does like one of those moves where he just reaches to grab the the napkin but he accidentally brushes your finger just to see what your reaction is because maybe you can hold hands and your whole body goes into a rage right whatever the your body's trying to get your attention have you ever

gone to talk to somebody did Did you ever spend some season, some seasons doing some trauma counseling? Yes. You don't, wasn't effective? I mean, I would say it was helpful in a lot of ways, but not necessarily in this particular. Okay. when's the last time you went cell counselor

last year tell me about that experience i don't i didn't even really bring up dating per se. Like I didn't, I feel like there were other things that I was struggling with. Like what? Um, well, I mean, I initially went back because I was struggling with, um, my, my sibling has mental health issues. And, um, so I kind of went back because I was trying to deal with that, trying to figure out how to navigate that relationship with my parents, like maintain a relationship with my parents, but distance myself. Gotcha. From your unsafe sibling.

So here's what I want you to do. I want you to go find a good trauma therapist and let them know. I was sexually abused from a family friend for four or five years during some of the most important developmental time in my life, right under my mom and dad's nose. And I'm just putting this into the ether. It might not be true, but you grew up in a pretty chaotic home environment, huh? Fair? Yeah, sometimes, yeah. So I want you to be very open about the environment you grew up in. And just listening to you talk, you haven't made peace with,

but you are able to say, I was abused as a kid. You haven't done a lot of talking about what you experienced in your own home have you no okay you've got to talk about that and the purpose for talking through these things is not to relive them or re-traumatize ourselves or have to go re-experience all this stuff. The purpose is because I want to have grown-up relationships myself. And my parents painted me a horrible picture of what that looks like. A man that my family trusted destroyed me for his own pleasure. And I have tried to white knuckle my way through this and I need different tools. And so we're not just going to sit there and spin like a record player,

but we're going to actually heal towards you making true adult connections because that's going to be the important part of your healing moving forward is true connection with other human beings. And I wish there was another way to do this. There's just simply not. Are you willing to do that? Yeah. Yes. I'll tell you a couple other things I would love for you to do. I would love for you to get some sort of movement practice. And I know they have a million different things there in Houston, whether it's a yoga practice or a jujitsu class or some sort of, the body stores trauma in really bananas ways.

And if you've ever been to a yoga class for a long period of time or a jujitsu class for a long period of time, there are sometimes somebody will just start sobbing. And there's something about movement and healing and movement and trauma healing that works together. I don't fully understand it all. I just have seen it. I've experienced it. Something else, you got to get a group of women that you trust that you can be 100% open with all of it. Do you have that? Huh? No. Okay. So you've got an anxious body that in living in an anxious environment with no other, no other tribe members, an unsafe family, a haunting presence that when we feel love or sexual intimacy, that means that's, that's our body goes to war, goes to fight or flight.

You don't have intimate connections as an adult. You don't got friends as adult. You see how your body's going to be anxious, regardless of what's, what your past is just because of the ecosystem it's had to create to survive. And what we have to do is teach it how to survive in another ecosystem. And you're going to have to get some help to do that. One final thing is, I'd love to see you begin to create a new identity. Here's what I mean by that.

One where you are worth being in a relationship with and you write that down every day. One where every day you get up and you write, I'm worth being loved. One where you get up every day, I am worth not being anxious all the time. I'm worth a non-anxious life. I'm worth my needs being met.

And that means you have to sit down with a counselor and figure out what the heck your needs even are. You don't even. And that means you have to sit down with a counselor and figure out what the heck your needs even are. Yeah. You don't even know what that means. You're going to have to ask yourself this one terrifying question. What do I actually want? That's in that's paralyzing for people. You know what I mean?

You're gonna have to figure out how to ask. You're gonna have to learn. I'm a person who communicates my needs very, very clearly. Mom, if brother's going to be at your house for holidays, I am choosing to not be there. Period. I am not interested in a sexual relationship with you right now, but I will get coffee

with you. Cool? See what I'm saying? Yeah. See, it sounds like madness to you. Well, it just seems like such a strange thing to say. I know. It's called boundaries. They're very strange to most of us, but especially if they're especially strange, speaking your needs out loud, clearly are

especially strange to kids who are to adults who as children were responsible for their parents emotional regulation. Especially for kids who grew up with a sibling with mental illness. That may dysregulated the household and didn't have parents who leaned into that. It's especially weird for kids who were sexually abused and you've got all three, not to mention the things that you blame yourself for having tried to tight rope through relationships since then. Fair? Yes. Cause you've done things, quoteunquote done things I hate that language But you've done some things that you wish you hadn't of you wish you'd spoken up

You feel like someone's taking advantage of you. You may have been sexually assaulted again um Under the guise of well, I just didn't Am I am I on to something? Yeah, yes, you're worth more than that and I can't be the only one who believes that. Do you believe that? Yes. Yes.

Will you start? Yes. You promise. Say, I want you to say I'm worth being loved. Oh man. Oh, that's so strange

um I'm worth being loved yeah that felt weird to say say it again um I'm worth being loved I'm worth having needs I'm worth having needs.

I'm worth having needs. I'm worth more than the sexual gratification of other people. I want to, for some reason, like, that was tough. That's tough for me to say. So when you go see your counselor, that's where you start. Okay. Mm-hmm. But I need you to hear me say that it's true.

Yeah. You were not put on this planet to meet somebody else's sexual needs. You were put on this planet to be a light and a gift in service to other people. And my gut tells me is that making the phone call to a counselor, because you've been through some counselors before, you've got a whole bunch of shame that you're carrying around, a whole bunch of guilt that you're carrying around, which are hallmarks of your childhood, hallmarks of your early adult years. Making that phone call is going to be hard.

But in two years, you and I are going to look up and you're going to be meeting with a small group of women who have been through the same thing. And you will begin to make meaning of the madness and the insanity and the evil that you've endured. And you're going to be able to forgive this 11-year-old who you have blamed for years. Or you're going to be able to forgive this 11-year-old

who's been fighting on your behalf for so long. Tell me you're not, are you just exhausted? Very. Here's what I want you to, I want you to let that little girl finally rest. And she hasn't been able to rest ever. My heart's broken for you, Ellie. You just have to trust me that you're worth being loved and you're worth being well.

You're worth having needs and you're worth speaking clear boundaries and you're worth more than the sexual gratification of other people. You're worth finding who you want to serve and who you want to love and serving them and loving them in ways that fill you up. You're worth healing. And it's going to be hard. And I want you to know when it gets hard

and when it gets exhausting and when it gets scary that you've got millions of us who are following you now. We're a part of your story. You invited us in and I'm grateful that you did that. You got millions of us walking beside you, holding your arms up in the desert when things get heavy, when things get hard. And I will be counting down the days till you make that call. Hopefully you do it today. And I will look forward to the next couple of years as hopefully you'll reach back out and let me know how you're doing. Cause you're about to become a light brighter than anything you've ever seen. You're going to be like staring into the sun and all that's going to start with that one phone call to a trauma therapist and you said, I'm ready.

Thanks for your trust. Thanks for loving Ellie like we all do. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back. It is a heavy show for the day after Christmas.

Here's what I want to say. There's a whole, whole bunch of you who went to holidays over Thanksgiving, holidays over Christmas. And you're having this realization, I can't make the adults in my life change. I can't. I can't make people get up when they get knocked down.

I can't make people go to counseling. I can't make people stop spending their money. Like I can't keep people from watching the news 24 seven, 365. I can't make people eat differently. I can't keep people from watching the news 24-7, 365. I can't make people eat differently. I can't change other adults. So I want you to hear me say, I get how hard that is. And that often comes with a season of grief. When you're watching people you love,

just make choices that you know are hurting them. You feel it hurting them. And the holidays are just that season. We get to see it up close. But I also want you to know that there is one person you can change and that's you. And so whatever 2023 is going to look like,

whether we're going to have a recession or not have a recession or whatever politicians are going to, I don't care. Whatever Kanye is going to say, whatever, I don't know, whatever, I don't care. I can just change my thoughts and my actions. That's it. And so whether you have hard stuff to begin to heal from, like childhood

sexual abuse and a chaotic childhood home and choices you made, whatever you're going through, or whether you're just finding yourself in a season of absolute blessing, things are so good and there's a creeping voice that's making its way through the back of your brain saying, hey, this all goes away. This all goes away. Don't you forget this all goes away.

And you start practicing for when it does all go away. You can control you. And all you can change is your thoughts and your behaviors. Please trust me. You are worth it. Those that you love are worth it. Your kids are worth it. Your spouse, your romantic partner,

it's worth it, worth it, worth it, worth it. Every time. I hope you'll join me in this upcoming new year as we heal where we got to heal and make new habits and new identities. And we head off into the unknown and make them all come true. Today's song of the day as we wrap it up, in honor of our first scholar, Jose, from the great and mighty Foo Fighters. The song's called Learning to Fly. Fantastic, Jenna. Way to go.

It goes like this. Run and tell all of the angels this could take all night. Think I need a devil to help me get things right. Hook me up a new revolution because this one is a lie. We sat around laughing and watched the last one die. And I'm looking to the sky to save me, looking for a sign of life, looking for something to help me, looking for a sign of life, looking for something to help me burn out bright. I'm looking for a complication, looking because I'm tired of lying,

make my way back home when I learn to fly high. Hey, that's what we're doing. We're teaching each other how to fly. We'll see you soon.