The Dr. John Delony Show - When Chaos at Home Affects the Kids

Episode Date: October 12, 2022

In this episode, we hear from: - A mom worried her son struggles with a food scarcity mindset following rough times in their family - A woman plagued with guilt since leaving her marriage after she had three affairs - An Instagram follower who tried Delony’s strategy to heal from trauma (spoiler alert: the result was NOT what he expected) Lyrics of the Day: "I Remember You" - Skid Row Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. He becomes fixated on food, always asking what the next meal is. There were often times when we had a negative balance in our account and I couldn't buy food. He remembers a specific incident when all I had was a potato and some cereal. I think his body is responding to a life of chaos. I can't understand it. I know you planned it. What's up, everybody?

This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Man, I'm glad that you're with us. The greatest mental health and marriage and relationship and parenting podcast ever devised. Probably not, but we're going with it. I'm so glad that you're with us. On this show, we talk about everything and it's not at you, it's with you. And we grab a seat, pull up a chair, pull up a bar stool,

and we figure out what's the best right next move for you to make. And so I'm so glad that you've joined us. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz. 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. A-S-K. And I love me some old Beastie Boys. Sorry, I probably shouldn't have started the show that way, but I like it.

All right, let's go to Kelly in Somerville. What's up, Kelly? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm fantastic. All right, let's go to Kelly in Somerville. What's up, Kelly? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm fantastic. How are you? Dude, that's so much better than I am. You just made me go from eh to pretty good.

Oh, good. Glad I could help. That you're fantastic is bringing us all up. Kelly, I was fantastic earlier. Kelly has this way of dragging everybody down. But not really. That's not true. That's not true. It's super true, Kelly. It's super true. Hey, I'm so glad that you called. What's up?

Me too. So I'm trying to figure out what's going on with my 11 year old son and food. He has some very weird behaviors. He makes grunting noises. He blinks rapidly, like almost like facial tics. He becomes fixated on food, always asking what the next meal is and when is it. He gets upset when I say no to eating extra desserts. I'm wondering if it's food scarcity issues, and I'm trying to understand how to walk him through this without shaming him. I'm not sure what the best way to like, to point out the noises to him, or is that going to make him self-conscious? So I'm just trying to get clarity on what is really the root of his issues with food and how to walk

it out with him. Oh man. Thank you. So you mentioned, um, might be food scarcity related. Tell me more about that. Is there something that's passed? Yes. My ex-husband put us through financial issues constantly. And there were often times when we had a negative balance in our account and I couldn't buy food. I had no food. And so he remembers a specific incident when all I had was a potato and some cereal to give him. And he brought that up a couple of weeks ago and said, I thought you

were just too lazy to go to the grocery store. He was around five when that happened, but he remembers it quite vividly. So I'm wondering, is that what this is about? Is there something else going on? And what do I do? Yeah. So there could be a bunch of stuff here. I'm going to take a stab at it. And I'm going to open this up to any therapist who listened to this show. And I hear from a lot of you. I'd love for your thoughts too.

Here's my guest just listening, just talking with you for a couple of minutes. Okay, Kelly. Well, before I give you my guess, let me ask one more question. Was there any abuse inside the home? I, you would probably call it abuse. My husband yelled a lot. He would throw high chairs when he would get angry or whatever was around him. He never physically touched me or the kids, but, um, he had a lot of anger issues. Okay. How old's your little one? Uh, my youngest is six. My one I'm talking about is 11. Oh yeah. You told me that. You told me that 11. Okay. Okay. So let me say that there's several things here. There's the grunting, there's the tics, which is often a body's way of just dealing with stress or with anxiety, right? And so I don't

overthink that. I use that as a symbol, as signal to me. Okay. Okay of a greater internal distress Um, so you have the yelling you've got the food insecurity your son's got these i'm going to call them stories not memories um Because he's now creating a new narrative of what happened inside of what actually happened And using that to reinforce his, you see what I'm saying? So it takes on a life of its own to where his body is remembering these stories less that they're a play by play. And in a couple of years, he'll tell you another story and you'll think, I'm crazy. I

was there. I know that didn't happen. And he will remember it as vivid, right? So it's about story, right? Our bodies are, our minds are story making machines and they do that on the back end of how we feel, right? So we have these feelings in our bodies make stories. And I think his body is responding to, this is again, I'm just throwing this out there. I think his body is responding to a life of chaos. Okay. A life of, I'm not safe.

I'm not safe. I'm not safe safe and let's just take him at his word dad was throwing furniture around yeah dad was probably radioactive even when he wasn't throwing things around and um somehow that narrative got transferred over to you, which is you're just too lazy to even get me food. Right. Or more importantly, and this is where I'm going to say this out loud. Guilt is okay. Shame is not okay here. Don't take this on.

But it's often, it's not uncommon for a kid to ask, why didn't you get me out of there? Or why did this go on for so long? And they don't understand economics. They just understand safety. And they look to you and say, that's your one job, right? And so, and now you have an 11-year-old. And you put on top of that, there were nights y'all went hungry. There were nights. So, he has become fixated. He has become compulsive when it comes to food. Right. So our tendency is to pathologize the food. We're going to count calories. We're going to say, um, only this, you need some more

protein in that meal. You need some more. I want to try a different approach. Okay. Now I'm going to say this for a third time and I won't say it again. All you therapists out there, if you're listening to this going, no, you let me know right in. And'll say, hey, I was wrong on this and we'll change it on the show. But here's what I want you to do. I want you to change his context, his relationship to you and to the entire food ecosystem. Here's what that means. Okay. Take him shopping with you and give him five things to pick out. Okay. Let him be a part of that process.

And by taking him to the store, he's going to see how much food there actually is out there. And that he has, what we're giving him is positive memories of an interaction with an adult who's safe now and with food. And we're also giving him teeny tiny bits of controlled autonomy. You have choice. Okay. Okay. Let him cook with you, which I know is the worst, right? He loves to cook. He loves it. Awesome. Buy him a couple of cookbooks,

not internet recipes, buying a couple of cookbooks or let him pick out a couple of cookbooks. What are you interested in? And read them with him, lay on his bed with him and flip through the pages and look at them. We call them like, uh, it's like food pornography, right? It's just like these glossy, beautiful, stunning photos of food that is not real, but it just looks so good. Lay on his bed with him there. Help. Let him help you organize the fridge. Like, okay, sit down.

Okay, where do you think the milk should go? Where do you think the egg should go? I want you to help me with this. We're going to model healthy eating. So it may be that we're going to get sweets out of the house. And you say things like, not Twinkies make you fat or chips make you. You say things like, when I eat chips, I don't feel good. My thinking gets cloudy. I just don't, my tummy doesn't feel good.

And he might say, I think they're great. And you'd be like, oh, they taste so good. But I feel better when I, and then you've got to model it. Okay. So we're going to focus on mood and performance, not on body composition. See what I'm saying? I don't ever want him to feel like he's broken. And then I'm going to do this. I'm going to send you the questions for humans cards with the kids. And here's why. I want you guys to slow down at family meals. And if you're not having family meals, that's all got to change.

Okay, good. You got to start doing that, but I want y'all to slow down. So maybe it's as a family, we take one bite and then we put our fork down and then we're going to answer one card. And that is, we're just going to learn. We're going to learn how to slow down. All of this is creating an ecosystem of safety. And this is my sideways way of getting you to slow down and be highly intentional and not being filled with guilt and shame. Because you are, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Yes. Okay. So I want you to take these tools as an entry point into a brand new relationship with your 11-year-old. Okay. And this is the hardest part. He knows that part of him is his dad too. Right. And that's going to haunt him.

So he needs to know extra that he is loved and that he's got value and that he's smart and he's capable. And all of these things are a way to change the entire environment around food. Okay. Okay. I also know the lion's share of this falls on you, and you probably don't have a lot of free time. You probably don't have a lot of free extra money laying around.

And I understand that this burden disproportionately is something you got to carry. Or if you heard me say everything, you called to ask, how do I help him have a better relationship with food and just stop being so anxious? And my answer was, you have to change your behaviors. See what I'm saying? Sure. Because he's just a kid absorbing that home. Tics, quite honestly, unless they are, they keep him from having normal functioning. Like he is chirping really loud or he's grunting to the point that people in the restaurant are turning to look. I would give that a season, 60 days, 90 days, working on these other things and see if that doesn't begin to begin to heal itself. If it doesn't, then it's time to go.

You get to talk to somebody. So how does that all sound? It sounds amazing. I'm more worried about middle school and kids making fun of him. Absolutely, yes. And it's okay to say not at the table. Okay.

I don't even think he knows he's doing it. Yes, and it may just be parental awareness. Hey, you're grunting at the table. What do you mean I'm grunting? You're making this noise. And it might just be somebody pointing it out to him in love. And you can do it with a smile on your face in a way that he knows, I don't love you, Les.

Just stop doing that. You know what I mean? Okay. And here's another thing. It's okay to say no. He needs to hear you say no and have healthy boundaries. So if he says, I need ice cream, and you say, we're not having ice cream tonight. I'm the mom, and we're not having ice cream tonight. We'll have ice cream once a week on a special night if fill in the blank happens. And he gets mad and throws a temper tantrum, is upset, that's okay. He does. He wanted two popsicles, and I said no, and he got really angry. That's right. Um, that's okay. That doesn't mean you did something wrong and he has to,

his anger is okay. He's allowed to get angry. He's allowed to have his feelings, but he can choose to not have any more popsicles for the rest of the week. If he, if he says ugly things, Right. That's a choice he's making. You're not punishing him with food. You're saying, hey, if you choose to yell and scream and say something ugly or throw something like his dad was doing. He learned this, by the way. You're choosing not to have popsicles.

Don't do that because I love giving you popsicles. One of my favorite things. Don't make that choice. And then he's going to see, yeah, hold my beer. I'll see if she's really telling me the truth. And then you got to decide, are you actually going to do that or not? Is that fair? Right.

Yes, absolutely. I think that you can transform this entire relationship. Okay. I may be way out to lunch and I'm okay with being wrong on this. If this was in my house, this is right where I would start. Okay. And by the way, I'm a kid that grew up this. If this was in my house, this is right where I would start. Okay. And by the way, I'm a kid that grew up with a lot of tics. Really?

Yes, a lot of them. I was an anxious kid and I was also an exhausted kid. And so I blinked a lot. I would grind my teeth a lot. I would pick my fingers a lot. I did a lot. I had a lot of little tics. My friends used to make fun of me.

I used to pop my neck a little bit. I had all kinds of weird stuff. And my buddies used to make fun of me. I used to pop my neck a little bit. Like I had all kinds of weird stuff and my buddies just make fun of me about all the time, which by the way, that was their job. They're just being kids. But I, as an adult, I've been able to track it back almost directly to a lack of sleep. And when I just get off the rails with what I'm eating and I don't move my body, then man, I start blinking again real hard and I start cracking my neck again. All the things come back from when I just get off the rails with what I'm eating and I don't move my body, then, man, I start blinking again real hard and I start cracking my neck again. All the things come back from when I was a kid. But it's not the tick itself.

It's just a – to me, it's just an alarm system. Okay. You probably need to get some rest, dude. You're starting to – I call it my clicks. You're starting to click a lot again. And it's pretty rare that happens these days, but it does happen. Wow. Well, thank you. I, is that cool? Very helpful. Yes. This is amazing. And you are the greatest mental health podcast. Yes. I knew it. If you say it long enough.

Okay. Hey, but hear me say I'm a hundred percent open to being wrong on this. I would love it if you really gave this a go for 30 days and you holler back at me. Okay. I'll even have you back on the show and you can say, I did this and this and this, and you're an idiot. This did not work. Or this did and this didn't. And here's why. It may not be food for some parents. It may be clothes. It may be, I don't like these shoes feel weird on my feet. It may be any number of things that become a moment of focus and control for a kid because that's all they can control in the world. It's this tiny little thing. And they're not doing it like to be mean. That's just their bodies have wrapped themselves up in this one decision because everything else in their life

is chaos. And so if this works, man, that we could be on to something. Is that cool? Yeah. Yes. Thank you so much. Your little one's really lucky to have you. Thank you. Are we done with the shame? Yes. Promise? Promise.

So dumb. It's not that easy, I know, but we're done, right? We're done. Yes. Awesome. You are the best, Kelly. Let me know how that goes. And I look forward to hearing from you.

Hey, everybody, we'll be right back. All right, we're back. Let's go to Sherry in Salt Lake City. What's up, Sherry? How's it going, Dr. John? We are partying. What are you doing? I am taking some time off of work right now, actually.

Good for you. And by the way, I couldn't be further from partying right now. Like, I'm wearing a button-up shirt like a moron. It's fine. It's good. So what's up? It's so nice meeting you. So nice talking with you. But I wish it was underneath better circumstances. What happened? So my question for you is, how do you forgive yourself and move on from the guilt and shame of past mistakes? Hmm, that's a great question. I'm not great at this, personally.

I can give you all the academic answers. I'm not very good at it. So the natural question, I probably wouldn't ask you this in a counseling session in the way I'm going to ask it now, but it just makes for better radio. Okay. What'd you do? So almost three years ago, I had a series of affairs. Okay. Two of which that were back to back.

One, I'm actually currently with the third one. And my husband and I at the time were just not doing well. We weren't emotionally connected. I had a ton on my plate. In fact, looking back, I'm like, wow, were we ever emotionally connected? At the time, I was, two full-time jobs. Um, he was working full-time as well. Um, I was homeschooling our special needs kids. Um, I was maintaining the house that was, you know, cooking, cleaning laundry, um, you know, just budgeting. If, if the car broke down, that was on me to go and get it fixed. You know,

he would take the good car to work. I would have to somehow figure out how to get the bad car to the shop. You know, I was actively volunteering in the community. I was, you know, volunteering at my church. And unfortunately, we had also moved to a new area where I didn't have any friends. And, um, you know, we would, we would talk about things and I would, I would say, Hey, you know, I really need some help. Um, and things would get better for maybe a week. And then they'd go right back to maybe him providing about minimum effort in, in, in all these different areas. And it just warned me, you know, and I'd have to say

that I got in a pretty good cycle of guilt and shame of not being able to be successful, you know, as much as I'd like to be in, in these different areas, you know, and I, And I don't like the way that things ended, but they did end. We did end up in divorce. And I feel tremendous guilt of breaking, essentially. And I know these aren't, you know, to me, these are not excuses. These are, this is just context of sort of what happened. And, you know, and, and even though I know that we were heading for disaster, that communication was just non-existent, basically. We weren't hearing each other. We weren't, we weren't supporting one

another the way that we should have. I just hate the way things ended between us. And what I'm finding is that it's blocking me from being able to give 100% in my current relationship. You haven't dealt with the core issue. After all this time, you still haven't dealt with it. Do you want to know what it is? Do tell me um well there's two two big glaring things and if you go watch this on on youtube when it comes out you'll see i just took a bunch of notes while you were talking um two big glaring things here number one you are trying

to make me okay but you keep speaking in terms of what we were doing and until me takes ownership of what me did there's never going to be congruence does that make sense

and so all of your discussion of what happened was like you say it was a good context but it was never and then i went and did this and then i went and did this not saying that i i hundred percent know how you got there right but part of forgiving yourself is owning and acknowledging reality. And I don't think you've done that maybe, or maybe you have, and it's so painful because you've got to deal with you, um, that it's just tough to go there. And that leads me to number two, which is the overarching underneath. And this is the big entire neon sign. Is that cool? I don't think this had anything to do with your husband,

had anything to do with your special needs kid. You didn't like who you were becoming. You didn't like who you had become. The first time you met somebody new, how about this? Walk me through how you met that person. I met them through work. Okay. And...

What does that mean? So you just, like, somebody you saw in the hallway and you kind of laughed and it was kind of funny? Just striking up conversations. I was remote. So, you know, striking up conversations and, you know, the conversations were very light. Um, I've had a lot of guy friends throughout my life. Um, and so I didn't think anything of it, you know, and I feel like it sort of snuck up on

me to tell you the truth. Absolutely. I don't think for a second you set out to find a replacement. So take me from light, it's funny, you think of a funny joke, or you send a funny emoji and he writes back like LOL, like in capital letters, like it actually made him laugh in real life. And that felt a little bit good. And then like he answered something in a Zoom chat. You're like, that guy's smart.

Like walk me through exactly how you ended up where you were. To the point that y'all met in person the first time. Yeah, I, you know, I'll try my best. It was so long ago, or at least it feels so long ago. Hey, in all honesty, I think, you know, exactly. I, I think what it was was, uh, we would, we would chat again, like you said, um, someone found me smart. Someone found me funny. Um, someone wasn't demanding something or or expecting me to go above and beyond what I had in me. And it was refreshing to have someone to sort of relax with.

And what allowed you to relax? Because by the way, this is all happening on chat. So most of this is happening inside your head. Most of this is a fantasy until y'all met up. Yeah. Right? Like you are creating this world. I'll just cut to it because we can do this for a long time. You are finally seen through a filter of your own fantasy and what's one what's if i distill it all down what

is one thing you felt after all of this you're dealing with special needs kid who you love but god it's so hard you love your husband but i just sit on the couch again and there's laundry baskets everywhere and he's like oh by the way the car needs oil change what did what did you feel a spark of happiness I could smile what's the word underneath that

spark is perfect that's really close I could feel yes you felt alive Yeah Again Yeah And so how did y'all meet up? Work conference

Just had to Ended up having to go to a work conference And You know, we planned it beforehand Okay And how did you feel the next day? Terrible. And, well, numb and almost like I was observing somebody else's life.

There you go. Yeah. Because the fantasy filter went away and suddenly it's almost disassociative, right? Yeah. Because I am Sherry. I'm not a person who cheats.

I'm a mom. I'm a wife. I'm a worker. I'm not somebody who cheats. Yep. And now suddenly I found myself here. I'm the person that I judged and hated. There you go.

Was this person married too? I don't think so. Okay. And what led to number two? First one stopped contacting. The contact just went way down. Like you said, I think the fantasy just went way down like you said i think the fantasy just went away and my ego was hurt okay and basically reached out to the next person who

would give me attention okay but you realize the person was a proxy for the feeling of of being alive yeah and so globally speaking the the challenge in any sort of romantic relationship is how do i how do how do how am i alive in this relationship and how do we help keep each other alive and that sounds codependent and that's not what i mean what i mean is how do we keep this fire moving and not like a fire, not like that, but how do I stay alive in this thing? And it's almost always through letting your needs be heard and having strong boundaries and having another partner that's going to play along. And you didn't have that. And now you're in a situation. Was the person you're with now, were they with somebody else?

They were at one point with somebody else. Okay. So the reason that relationships on the back of affairs are a mess is at the core, both of you know what the other person's capable of. Yeah. are a mess is at the core, both of you know what the other person's capable of. And it's very hard to put both feet on the ground when you know. Right. And so it takes. And the worst part is, is trusting myself. Yeah. Now I've seen, now I've seen what I'm capable of. and it's like I didn't even – it's like jumping out of an airplane. It's like I'll never do that, and then all of a sudden you do, and you're like, well, I can. Now I can.

Now I know I can, and it's scary as hell. It is because you don't know who you are anymore. Yeah. And you're trying to forgive something that is a vapor because I don't think you've sat and grieved the loss of your marriage, the loss of the vision of what that was. Because when you married that guy, you all had plans, right? Yep. We had a lot of them. Yeah. And when you had a child with special needs, you loved that kid and you grieve that too, because that wasn't what you drew up for nine months, right?

Not at all. And then you had this life that you had not planned and here it is. And he went one degree left and you went one degree right. And you woke up a few years later and you had no idea where that dude was because y'all were both in the other side of the planet. Yeah. Right? It was more like I had woke up one day and realized I had plans and he was

just along for the ride. You know? And I... But it's both and though. Because if I sat down with him, I could almost guarantee you he would say, dude, she didn't listen to a word I said. I just sat here and she ran through everything because she was this, she was that, and it had to be this way.

So I just unplugged. I'd almost be willing to bet that's what he would say. Yeah. Is that true? Maybe. I don't know. So here's where we're going to start. The way, one, you have to take ownership of what you did, the role you played.

Okay? I have to own this. I've got to take blame out. Blame is contextual and it's good, but it doesn't solve any problems, doesn't help. I got to own what I did. I've got to own that I was capable of doing something that I despised in other people, yet here I am. So the word is ownership, ownership, ownership. This happened, period. The other thing is when you started telling me what happened, I wrote down, you are still in disbelief. I can hear it in your voice. You still can't believe you did that. Yep. You cannot go back and edit sentences that have

already been written. Unfortunately. Yeah, it is. It is. And it's heartbreaking and it's sad and it is, but it's also the path forward to healing. I can be a monster. And now I'm dedicated to not being that person anymore. I wish it was more complicated than that, but it's not. After you grieve this and you take full ownership of your role in this, the context, again, it's important, but it's, it's over now. Now I've got to own, here's what I did. And until you can say those

words out loud without, I got a close buddy who's very open. I met my spouse through an affair, is able to say it with a period at the end of the sentence and have a lot of guilt and shame over it. And here's who I have chosen to become on the back end. Beautiful. That's what healing looks like. Yeah. Right. So it's ownership. It is grieving. And then it is asking yourself that one terrifying, frightening, awful, scary question. What am I going to do now? Who am I going to be now? So I'll ask you, who are you going to be? Gosh, possibilities are endless, aren't they? They are. But you haven't even thought that.

You're still beating yourself up. Can I say something weird? And I'm going to get some mean comments on the internet about me. I don't think you're a bad person. I don't. I think you, I think you were tired and I think you were absolutely stone lonely. And I think you and your husband ran into a situation where neither of y'all

had the tools. And I'll say neither of y'all had the character to go try to get those tools, but here we are. I don't think you're a bad person. I think you screwed up. Yeah. You know, you know, Dr. John, one of the things that has taught me just before people start trashing me on, you know, in the comment section, dude, you can't read that stuff. If I can defend you for a second um i was i was those people i i never actually would verbally say out loud you know you're a bad person but you know it's i would have to say that anything but i've learned through this is to just have sympathy you know well so my my i may have talked about this one of the things that one of the most

important lessons my dad taught me um he was a homicide detective when i was a kid in houston so he saw some bad stuff and he said the hardest part of his job was not the blood and the guts he said the hardest part of his job was sitting at a card table with somebody who was an alleged murderer and listening to their story and sitting back in his little metal folding chair realizing, oh my gosh, but for two or three things that happened in a day, I'm that guy. I would have done that exact thing given this situation on top of this one, on top of this one. And then I went home and my wife was with the mailman. Somebody's going to die, right? It all just happens right in a row. And all of a sudden

as a society, we've gone murderer. And my dad said, sitting across from a broken man and feeling that humanity, all of a sudden the labels don't make a lot of sense. Cause I'm looking at a hurt guy right here who did evil and atrocity and has to be held accountable for it make no mistake yeah um but so i'm not i'm not gonna throw a rock at you sherry i'm just not i'm not um you know right it's there's no sense in being like well you know what you did yes you know more than anybody you know the question is who am i going to be now and not like, well, you know what you did? Yes, you know. More than anybody you know. The question is, who am I going to be now? And not like, what am I not going to do? I'm never going to cheat again.

That's like me saying, I'm never going to eat jelly beans again. That's stupid, right? That's going to happen. It is creating a new identity that begins with, here's who I am. I'm a person who is impeccably trustworthy all the time, forever. And that means you're going to fudge on something. You're going to

tell your boss, you're going to be like, hey, you got that report? And you'll be like, oh yeah, I emailed it to you. Let me go check and see. You know you didn't email it. You're going to circle back and say, hey, I didn't email this. Here it is. I'm sorry. You're going to practice being a person of impeccable integrity. And a part of that is I do not chat with guys at work because I know what that's like. Some people can do that. Some people can have drinks on the weekend. Some can't. And you, Sherry, cannot. And that means for the first time in your life, you're going to have to figure out why you don't like

Sherry and why flirting and male attention is so important. It's like oxygen to you. And that comes back from a long, long time ago. Is that fair? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you're talking about a whole new way of being.

I mean, that's easy enough, right? Oh, simple. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to name my book, how to change everything. And my wife was like, that's too much. That's too much. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. But here's the thing. So people ask me like, what do you mean when you say practice? Here's what I mean.

When a chat window pops up and you're in Zoom or you're at a conference and some guy sits by you and makes a joke and you laugh and you scoot a little bit closer or you intentionally bump your foot against his or you text back a funny joke and then he texts back and you text back it it's catching yourself right there yeah just catching yourself right there and exhaling and saying this goes off it that simple. And then you got to live in

that discomfort of, I'm not getting propped up by somebody else right now. That means I got to go home and deal with what's at home. And I got to go home and deal with what's in the mirror. And that's so hard. You know what I mean? Yeah. Are you willing to do that? Absolutely. And this is going to be hard. It may not be with the guy you're with. That may not be the long-term play here. Or y'all both might say,

both of us didn't make good choices. Both of us did things that were regrettable and not good. Both of us hurt other people. We start clean here together. And I've seen that work great, but it takes both people being committed Yeah, is he that guy? He is definitely that guy for real I I don't

I don't know how but I You know when you you do a lot of bad things in your life and you you ask yourself Well, I mean you you feel like you don't deserve anything good because you're not a and you, you ask yourself, well, I mean, you, you feel like you don't deserve anything good because you're not a good person, you know, but for some reason I, I, I can't explain it, but he saved me from, from a lot of stuff and, um, he's willing, you know, and I think that's one of the understandings that we have is that we know what each other are capable of, you know? And I think that's one of the understandings that we have is that we know what each other are capable of, you know?

Yeah. But that's how the U S and Russia have gotten along for a long time and it doesn't work in the longterm. We, uh, we're able to have very frank and open conversations, which is, you know, it's, it's difficult at times. Do y'all have any secret? Do you have secrets you keep from him now? No. Okay.

No, we do not keep secrets from each other. Are you still in communication with your ex? Yes, we're on pretty friendly terms. Have you ever sat down with him and said, I'm sorry? Absolutely. How'd that go? He was very receptive. he was he was kind about it that hurts even worse doesn't it yeah makes you makes you feel even worse about yourself it'd be fun if you flip a table over and it's like oh yeah and you can feel justified like yeah

exactly it sucks when the people we hurt have super high character and integrity, doesn't it? And, and are kind. Yes. Here's your homework assignment. Are you ready? Okay. I want you to write a letter that begins dear Sherry. Can you do that? Okay. Yeah. And it will be the things that you're disappointed Sherry did. It's going to be about the things that you absolutely just don't love about Sherry.

And then it's going to be in part three of this letter. Here's who Sherry's going to be. A woman of impeccable integrity. I'm going to be the best romantic partner ever. My husband or my boyfriend or whatever you want to call him,

he may have quote unquote saved me, but he's not my savior. Yeah. He pulled me out of the water, but he's not my savior. Yeah. He pulled me out of the water, but it's my job to walk now. And so I am a person who's committed to getting well. I'm a person who's committed to growth. I'm committed to being a light in my community.

And that means I've got to understand that I'm worth being loved. Even though I did dumb stuff, I'm worth being loved. Yeah. Will you tell Sherry that? Because she's been needing to hear that probably since she was a little girl. Yeah. You promise? Because I like Sherry. Yeah, I can do that. Okay. I promise. promise?

yeah I can do that I promise and I will say this again to people watching and listening we're not throwing rocks on this one because for those of you listening statistically speaking

this is a lot more of you than y'all want to admit and y'all want to admit. And y'all may not have made the final plans like Sherry did, but you thought about it. You gotten close. Or you're roommates with the person you're married to, and it's been a long time. Finding people to throw rocks at almost never solves anybody's problems. Look in the mirror and say,

I'm going to make my home, my marriage, my parenting, my community a little bit better. That's where we start. Sherry, I'm grateful for your bravery, for your honesty, and for just calling and saying, I'm going to lay it all out there. I'm grateful for you. Ownership, forgiveness, grief, and that scary question, who am I going to be now? We'll be riding with you, Sherry. Thank you so much. We'll be right back. All right. Hey, we're back. I got this direct message. I'll just say it's from Jack. Jack, if you're listening, you know who you are. I'm super glad you reached out. Here's what Jack wrote. I love your show, John.

I'm a redneck, tough Midwest guy, and I enjoy the heck out of it. Dude, I already like you, Jack. We're already good friends. One thing I got to ask. Why in every episode you tell someone to pick up a rock and drop it? I tried it, and the whole time I think about how stupid it feels. Instead of getting rid of the grief, am I doing it wrong? Dude, great question, Jack.

Thanks for sending that on the internets. For sliding into my DMs, I think is the other kid. Nope, that's not what they said. Okay, thank you for sending me an electronic message from the Midwest, Jack. Okay. A couple of things. Carrying, throwing a rock, picking it up and throwing it is not going to heal your grief. Okay. When I tell somebody to go to the store and buy a brick, buy a cinder block and write on it, what's this thing you're carrying around? Whether that's hatred for somebody, rage for somebody, an inability to forgive yourself. I want you to carry it past the point where it's comfortable. Obviously, don't get injured. Don't

do anything that's going to cause you harm. But I want your body to feel how heavy this is. I want you to carry it around to the part that your shoulders are heavy, your hands are heavy, it's scraping on your hand, it's just heavy. And then I want you to walk all the way you can to the back corner of your backyard. For some of you living in condos or apartments, that's not a very far walk. You may go out to a park. For some of y'all in a big place, it might be a long walk. But the whole thing is a miniature pilgrimage from where I am right now to I am going down,

and I'm going to set this thing down. And when you set it down and you stand up, that lightness, that freedom feeling, took your dad 14 years ago or seven years ago that anger and that rage is not helping your dad come back it's not further punishing the drunk driver it's just making your life more miserable and so jack dude is just a metaphor for how heavy these things are that we carry, we don't realize that the poison that we carry has a physiological consequence. Every time we spin up and think up about that drunk driver, our body starts the threat response system again, and let's dump cortisol and adrenaline into the bloodstream and get this sucker fired up again because we got to fight or we got to run from something and there's nobody to fight anymore.

There's nobody to run from. You become your own worst enemy. And so, Jack, it's just simply a metaphor. Walking out in your backyard and just picking up a rock and being like, I looked at a bad website and then throwing it on the ground. That's not the point. The point is to say, I'm carrying this thing around and I want to stop. And it also is not going to assist with your grief at all. In fact, it will amplify your grief. It will free you up to finally feel. I'm trying to think sometimes whenever I go rucking, I've got my go ruck bag and I've got it filled with some weights and I go walk.

It's so heavy and all I can feel are the straps in my back. All I can feel is my shoulders tense and me hunched. It's just so heavy. I don't feel how much my feet hurt and how much my knees hurt until I take it off. I drop that thing and then I realize, oh, that's how tired I am. Oh, that's my knees. I need to stretch, whatever the thing is. Then I can finally feel my entire body. But until I take that backpack off, I'm just feeling where those straps are digging in. And so we often carry around anger or rage and we think it's just them. It's just them. It's just them. It's us. We're the ones paying the price for that hatred, that rage, that frustration, that lack of forgiveness. It's

us. And so really it's just an exercise. It's a metaphor. The feedback I've received has just been second to none. Folks who said, okay, I'm going to do this and I'm going to set it down. And when it pops back in your mind the next day, you can be like, nope, I'm going to do this and I'm going to set it down. And when it pops back in your mind the next day, you can be like, nope, I put that down in the backyard. I've got a place where I put it down. It's like going to a funeral. I've got a point when I said goodbye to my grandmother. I got a point when I said goodbye to my kids. We had a funeral and we said goodbye. It's that process. So thanks for your question, man. I love you, dude. And I hope you come visit us here in Nashville sometime. I'd love to, dude. I hope you come visit us here in nashville sometime i'd love to um,

I was gonna say buy you a cup of coffee, but it's free here in the lobby if y'all ever want to come visit but Um, thank you so so much for that question jack Everybody You got something in your past that's haunting you that you've done that was done to you try it Go buy a cinder block pay the money go through the process Buy it put a piece of duct tape on it or a piece of masking tape on it. Write down what happened. Just carry it around with you.

15 minutes, 20 minutes. Some of you may only be able to carry it for two minutes, right? And then take it somewhere where it's going to sit down forever. Maybe you go on a hike with it out in a park and you carry it out into the woods and you set it Down and say this is where this this this is where this gets left forever And then every time you think of it in the future you realize it's already over there give that a shot Let me know how it goes. We'll be right back Hey, what's up deloney here listen you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious

or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right. Hey, Kelly, you said you went down a Skid Row rabbit hole? Yeah, I heard a song yesterday on the way home. What was it?

I think 18 and Life was on. What a great tune. And then I was just like, wait a minute. Ricky was a young boy. So then I started pulling up on Spotify, more Skid Row. And that's a pretty good rabbit trail to be on. What a great tune. And then I was just like, wait a minute. Ricky was a young boy. So then I started pulling up on Spotify, more Skid Row. And that's a pretty good rabbit trail to be on.

I think Slave to the Grind is one of my favorite records ever. Ever, ever. I just remember being a kid sitting in the back of my dad's car while he was gone. Oh man, that record.

And, in all seriousness, the top four or five songs ever, ever. Skid Rose, I Remember You, the greatest ballad of all time. It's right up there with Something to Believe In by Poison. But I got to go with I Remember You by Dave the Snake Sabo and Rachel Bolan.

Skid Rose, I Remember You goes like this. Woke up to the sound of pouring rain. The wind would whisper and I'd think of you. All the tears you cried, they called my name. And when you needed me, I came through. You paint a picture of the days gone by when love went blind and you'd make me see and I'd stare a lifetime into your eyes

so that I knew that you were there for me. Time after time, you were there for me time after time you were there for me remember yesterday walking hand in hand love letters in the sand I remember you through the sleepless nights and every endless day I want to hear you say, I remember you. See you soon, everybody.