The Dr. John Delony Show - When Should a Single Dad Start Dating Again?

Episode Date: September 29, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU!   Show Notes for this Episode Solve for Happy - Mo Gawdat As a single dad of a teenage daughter when is it appropriate for me to start dating again? I'm struggling with guilt & grief after my dad's suicide I got divorced & moved across the country; now I'm regretting everything Lyrics of the Day: "Love Story" - Taylor Swift   As heard on this episode:  BetterHelp dreamcloudsleep.com/delony Conversation Starters Redefining Anxiety John's Free Guided Meditation Ramsey+   tags: parenting, kids, relationships, divorce, grief, guilt/shame, suicide/self-harm   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.    

On today's show, we talk to a dad who wants to know if it's okay to date again. We talk to two different women who are incredible and strong, and they're dealing with grief, they're dealing with regret, and they're wondering what they can do next. Stay tuned on The Dr. John Deloney Show. Hey, what's up, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I think my voice just cracked.

Today I'm going through puberty. That's good. And, James, this morning I noticed when I got to work that I had shaved and I missed a spot. You know, like, where is it? It's like, everybody watching, let's look. I can just, oh, man. Kelly, you do that all the time. Like, you'll miss a big spot on your chin.

Oh, yeah, that happens a lot. But it does happen to girls when we shave our legs. And then you're wearing, like, a short skirt or shorts. And then you're like, oh, man. Oh, man. And you feel like everyone can see it. shorts and then you're like, oh man. Oh man. And you feel like everyone can see it. Yeah. James does that

both on his face and his legs. I saw Ken shaving in the like personalities room back there. Do you not have a razor here? No, I like to do that at home and I just think

sharing razors. I didn't mean sharing his razor. I don't know how you get COVID but surely that's how you get it. Surely, they're like breathing in the same room, vaccinations, and by the way, don't share Mach 3s because that's how you get it. Surely they're like breathing in the same room, vaccinations.

And by the way, don't share Mach 3s because that's how new variants are born, I think, by sharing face razors. Maybe not. Maybe that's how you get pass along antibodies. I don't know. Pass along antibodies. I'll write a paper on it. It's good. So we have a new guy working the – another new Zach, working the NASA screens over there.

If you could see incompetence in action, you would see what I'm looking at. He's handsome. Don't get me wrong. He's the best looking guy we've had back there. That was brutal. I'm just kidding. I know. By incompetence, I meant stunning and really good and talented.

Thank you. And full of words. Full of words. That's so good. All right. Hey, real quick before we get to the calls. Y'all know I read a lot. I read this book the other day called Solve for Happy by Mo Gadot.

G-A-W-D-A-T. I cannot recommend this highly enough. It was, y'all know, I don't, I got a problem with the word happy and all that. This guy's the chief, I think he was the chief business officer at Google and then ended up taking on Google X. He is brilliant at a level that I cannot understand.

And this book is really extraordinary. After the passing of his son, as he wrapped his head around it, it was really extraordinary. Mo Gadot, G-A-W-D-A-T, the book's called Solve for Happy. I got no stake in it, no nothing. Just, that was one I put down. Actually, at the end of it, I called my son down. I was listening to it and asked him to come down and listen to some parts of it. And it was that good. So it was really remarkable. But cool. Let's get right to the calls today. You don't need to hear about me talking about shaving and my hygiene. Well, we're like 11 minutes into the show, and it's like,

no, let's get to the calls. Right to them. Let's get right to them. Let's go to Drew in Tulsa. What's up, brother? Drew? Hi. Thanks for having me on your show.

You bet, man. Thanks for calling. How's Tulsa? It's warm, very warm. Oh, yeah. And would you tell Kelly, I don't think a man has ever noticed an unshaved spot on a woman's legs when they wear a mini skirt I'll let you do that dude brother she's mean man she's me she's not mean she's really kind and she all that was very

nice she was very nice was she was very nice. Was she? What was that like, man? Just tell me about it. I'm just kidding. All right, so what's up, man? How can I help? Is it acceptable for me to start dating again? Tell me about it. What does that mean?

So I'm a single father of a teenage daughter. The mother is absentee. And she and I have been together for the past nine plus years. Um, the mother is absentee. Um, and she and I have been together for the past nine plus years. Um, I'm, I'm in my mid fifties. Um, and recently through the power of Facebook, I reconnected with maybe my first love from almost 35 years ago. Awesome. Um, yeah. And it's like, we never were apart. It just clicked. It was, it's awesome. We've been talking regularly. Um, we both have made it clear that it would be nice to see each other, but, um, I made a commitment to never date until my daughter becomes an adult or leaves for college. Um, why'd you make that commitment, man?

Uh, you know, I've seen some evidence that especially daughters can have challenges when parents bring new people into the home. And so I just want to let her know that, hey, I'm here for you. I'm dedicated to you. And, yeah, I didn't want her to have any of those complications. It was a challenging situation from when I was previously married. Well, man, first and foremost, dude, what an extraordinary guy. And part of me feels ridiculous. We're in a culture now where it's extraordinary for a dad to step in and love his daughter

and stay connected to her as a single parent for a decade. I feel dumb saying way to go, man. And at the same time, way to go, man. That's incredible. Good for you. Thank you. So you love this little girl. Y'all have a pretty tight bond?

It's pretty good. There's been some challenges as she's hit her teenage years, but I understand that's pretty common. Dude, my daughter hit five and I don't even know what happened. So, yeah, the teenage years, I've read about them, and I can only see the train coming around the bend right at us. Yeah, I miss the days when she would come running to the door every time I came home. Yeah, man. Hey, that will return. That will circle back on you, man. So, 100%, 1,000%, yes, you can start dating. In fact,

I would encourage it. I would encourage single parents that one of the most important things they can do for their children is to have relationships and connection themselves for them to be well, right? So yes, 100%. Where I think things get off the rails are, number one, there's a parade of new people. People start in front of young kids. People get infatuated and you get excited and your heart races. I could hear it in your voice.

You're talking about this girl we connect, my first love. Like all that stuff starts coming back. And you start saying things like you said in middle school, like I love her and we're going to be together forever, that kind of stuff, which is super fun. It feels awesome. A 16-year-old is immediately going to go, what about me? And that's not a moral or character issue.

That's a development. I mean, that's just developmentally correct. You're her anchor. And so it will be on you to be open and honest about – she knows what dating is like, right? She knows what being wanted is like and what loneliness is like. She gets that. She's 16. It's you being open and honest and telling her in a way that – my friend Rachel Cruz says, share, don't scare, right?

You don't want to say like, hey, man, I just – I haven't kissed a girl. You don't want to say like hey man i just i haven't kissed a girl you know what you don't be gross about it right but at the same time let her know man i've been lonely and um i've i'm thinking about getting back out there and talk to her about it and be open about it and what you could the gift you could give her that will pay off generationally for your family line will be um teaching her how to have a conversation and how to be nervous again. And then maybe invite her into this and say things like, hey, is this the right way to say this? I haven't dated in a decade or I don't know. You know what I mean? Those kinds of things that kind of bring her along for the ride. And at the end of the day, she might stamp her feet and she might

say, how dare you and, and, and. She's 16. And at the end of the day, she doesn't get a vote, right? And that's, you've lived in a world where you're trying to make up for the fact that her mom left her. And you're trying to make up for, you're trying to make up for, and you can't really do that, right? But it feels good. And I know you've been working hard. You can't fill that gap. There's always going to be that gap. And so, yeah, man, feel free to date.

Be honest and not too honest, but honest and seek your daughter's feedback. But remember that she's 16 and she doesn't get a vote. Does that make you nervous or is it kind of been an excuse or where's where's your heart at on this deal? You know, I made a pretty firm commitment not to date. So I really I would if you had said no, don't date. Um, so I really, I would, if you had said, no, don't date, it's going to destroy your daughter. I'd had no problem going, okay, I'm not going to date. I've committed to that. Um, but you know, you get the butterflies in your tummy and you know, it's, it's kind of fun thinking, Oh, I might reconnect. So, um, but I have no, I have no problem committing to her and not to committing to my daughter and saying, no, I'm going to wait for two more years. That's not a problem. Have you talked to her about it? No. I think that would be worth the conversation. She, she has no contact with mom. Mom left y'all and it's just out of the picture.

She has infrequent contact. Mother lives about 1500 miles away. Wow. What does she, what does she think about her mom? Okay. The brief version is there were some issues with the mother's health, some addiction issues. And so after going through a divorce, we moved to be near my support system, a part across the other side of the country. Um, and the mother has seen, she's recently come back around. I'm sorry. Your question is, what does my daughter think about her? She's been through phases where she'd never wanted to talk to her. Didn't want anything to do with her. Um, I encourage you to stay in contact. They went through some troublesome periods, periods recently it's gotten better, but it's still

real infrequent contact. Okay. Um, so expect there to be some trauma there and some hurt there that's not related to you, but that will end up all over you. You know that, right? Right, right. And that will be separate and apart from dating and not all kids, but many kids, especially young children and especially early teens, hold on to a fantasy that maybe one day my parents will get back together. And there's something about dating that does trigger that, oh no, this is over. And sometimes that finality is hard in your daughter's situation. That period may be at the end of that sentence a long, long time ago. You know what I mean?

And so every kid is going to be different. I think it, it leans on adults to be adults. And if you abandon your daughter in this process and you get so infatuated and you're just staring at your phone all day and Facebooking all day and calling all day and leaving for trips and yeah, that can be a problem. If you date like a grownup and you treat your daughter like a grownup and she's your priority, but at the same time you're showing her, Hey, dad's going to be in a relationship too. And I'm nervous. And should I wear this? And Hey, is this the right way to text this back? Bring her along there, man. It can be a really remarkable connecting tool for you too. And she may just say, screw you. I'm going back to mom. I hate you. I've always hated you, whatever. And she's 16 and the daughter of a mom who left them and left her and who had addiction

issues. And so there's going to be some trauma there. And so it's trying to solve for every one of those variables. It's going to be really hard. You know, your daughter better than anybody. You also know that, and you've been alone for a decade and that's a long, long time. And sometimes after trauma, after heart heartache and heartbreak, we make these really firm, I'm not going to until. And sometimes those serve us. They serve us well in the moment. They provide a concrete foundation for us for a minute to let us anchor in and then go on about healing and moving on. And sometimes they serve their purpose well before.

That are fake deadlines that we set on ourselves. So, brother, I mean, if you find somebody, talk to her. I don't have any, I have no psychological problems with dating. Your daughter's going to have her own challenges based on stuff that happened way before this. It sounds like she's got an awesome dad who loves her. And man, bring her along in a gentle and compassionate way. We'll see what happens. Thank you so much for the call, brother. Hey, we'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show. All right, we are back. Let's go to Nikki in Denver, Colorado. What's up, Nikki? Thanks for taking my call, Dr. John. Thanks for calling. How in the world are you? I'm doing all right.

Very cool. So what's up? Um, so about three and a half years ago, uh, my dad committed suicide and lately over, um, I would say maybe the last year I've dealt with a lot of guilt around not being able to help my dad when I thought he was struggling. And my question is, how can I, sorry. No, you're good. Take your time. How do I pull myself out of those spirals that I get myself into of feeling guilty and responsible for not being able

to help my dad. I'm so sorry. That's hard. Tell me about your dad. Tell me about him growing up. He was funny. He was a really fun dad. He was in law enforcement. So, you know, his job was hard and there were a lot of times that were hard growing up, but, um, I love my dad. I love my dad. Um, and the last few years of our relationship were really strained because he was pretty sick. And, um, so that was hard. But as a kid, I love, I loved my dad. Yeah. What about your mom? What role did she play in your childhood? Um, my mom was also great. And both,

both of my parents were around growing up. My mom was kind of my spiritual anchor growing up. And she was kind of the one that ran the household. And, you know, as a teenager, I had a pretty strained relationship with my mom. But nowadays she's my best friend. And I love my mom a lot. That's cool. She's been my my mom a lot. That's cool.

She's been my rock through a lot. So what happened four, five, six years ago? You said you saw your dad got sick, and you saw a shift in his personality. Tell me about that. So when I was a kid, my dad had an accident, and he ended up on pain medication to help manage the pain from this accident. And I didn't know it until much later in my life, but he became really dependent on pain medication. Was that when you were a kid too? That was when I was a kid, but a lot of the issues from it didn't manifest until, at least not from what I could tell, until I was a teenager.

Okay. And then over time, it just got worse and worse. And then a few years ago, what was the circumstances around him taking his life? He just struggled with not only physical pain, but just emotional and mental health. Yeah. Being in law enforcement, my dad was not one to reach out for help. Right. It was just a stigma that I was very aware of growing up. He felt that asking for help showed weakness.

And even when he really needed it, I don't think he knew how to ask or even accept help. That's right. And I've spent my life around police officers, and you're exactly right. That's one of the biggest challenges that that community faces is being able to raise your hand and say, hey, I'm drowning here. Yeah, I need some help. Yeah. How old are you? I'm 27 now.

And you have a family? You live by yourself? You got little kids? I need some help. Yeah. How old are you? I'm 27 now. 27? And you have a family? You live by yourself? You got little kids? Tell me where you are in life. I am single as the day I was born. I live by myself. My mom and my younger brother still live close.

But, yeah, I live out on my own own now and i'm doing well for the most part i have a good job i am rooted in a good church and i so what does this debilitation feel like when you start thinking about it walk me through some of the thoughts that pop into your head it almost feels like panic sometimes yeah um i've gone through a lot of my own health journeys over the last couple years just trying to get my own physical and mental health in a good place not that it's ever been super bad but you know i've always wanted to do better for myself. And I think as I learn more about how to keep myself well, I think about the things that I could have done for my dad to try to help him be well. And so I just, it gets to a place where I end up sitting in my guilt for sometimes a couple of days.

Yeah. So let me, you and I could sit down for a couple of hours and really dig into some stuff. And so I'm going to take a few of the things you said and do a flyby here. And I may be wrong on a few things, but I've sat with a number of folks in your situation, so tell me if I'm right, okay?

And if I'm wrong, please call me out. Okay. But when you grow up in the home of someone who's fun and hilarious and they work a traumatic job and they're an addict, for a young child, the memories can be about the silliness and the fun, sometimes the volatility, like that occasional burst of anger and you're like, whoa. But what your brain and your heart detect is that detachment. Your brain and your heart, and this is a physiological thing, This isn't some emotional thing. It knows that your dad is six Klonopin into an evening or five oxys into an evening.

It knows that you are in the presence of your father and he's not there because he's high. Your little kid brain sees him and sees that smile, that fake half sleepy smile that is silly and come on up and let's cuddle. But your brain knows we're disconnected. And for the child of an addict, and this is with alcohol, this is with any number of things. This is with parents who nowadays just are so busy with work, they're just scrolling on their phones 24-7, 365, and their kid is staring at them and they're talking to them, but they know they're not present.

And your brain will literally try to solve that connection forever, forever. Because your body and your brain knows that guy loves me. He says he loves me, he's here, but I can feel there's a gulf between us. It must be my fault. And that's, you hear me say all the time, that's what five-year-olds and seven-year-olds, they try to solve that disconnection problem, especially with parents who have traumatic jobs, especially with parents who struggle with mental health issues, especially with parents who

struggle with addiction. And now you fast forward to one of the most tragic things, which is a father who loves his daughter and got to a place in his heart and his head that said, I don't want to die, but I need this to stop. And I think my daughter's life will be better with me not here. And that math doesn't make sense to you because you know that's not true, but it made sense in his head and in his heart. And here's what your sweet brain and heart is still trying to do.

Number one, it's still trying to bridge that gap. You're still trying to solve him. And number two, the even scarier thing is our brains solve for control. That's what anxiety is. That's what a lot of depression is, is our brain solving for control. And you can't control this. And so what it will do, it will reach back and try to say, well, we should have. And really what that is, it's a protective mechanism to say if it ever happens again then if i ever love recklessly and deeply again i will make sure that and exhale you can't and i'm so sorry because it feels so powerless right yeah and you may have heard me

say this before we spend so much energy and this isn't just you this is all of us we spend so much energy with a pen in our hand trying to go back and edit sentences of our lives that have already been written with periods at the end of those sentences and you can't edit them the only thing on earth we can do is write a new one

right right my guess is did you go to your dad's funeral so we didn't have a traditional funeral for him

okay dad always wanted to be cremated so we cremated him as all cops do it's the weirdest thing I don't understand I don't either

every cop I know is like no just cremate me. We'll move on. Like, golly. Like, we want to do more for you than that. But, you know, I mean, we wanted to honor what he had always told us. Because, I mean, as a cop's kid, you grow up with the realization that, you know, at any point in time, something could happen.

Every day can be the day. That's right. Exactly. So it was a conversation that was very open in our house. And so we cremated him and we had some family and we spread his ashes in one of his favorite spots where we grew up. So we didn't really have a traditional funeral but we did do something does your mom still miss him?

I think she does they had a really strong relationship especially in the last 5 or 6 years when my dad was here when he got real sick yeah so the last thing I six years. Yeah. But my dad was here. Yeah. When he got real sick. Yeah. So the last thing I'll tell you is this,

and then I'll walk you through a couple things you can do. When I've worked with young people, and unfortunately you're still a young person because I'm old now. When I've worked with young people, there's this lingering thing in the back of their head that says, could this happen to me? Could I get to a place where things were so cloudy and so gray that I could do this? And that's a really scary thing.

Have you ever been there? No. Good. no good I want you to stay committed to you getting well which is really extraordinary that you've branched out to do that stay committed to that journey okay so in all honesty

my guess is you haven't let him go yet you did the funeral that he wanted and you still have a little girl and you did the funeral that he wanted and you still have a little girl and you're trying to solve his love and trying to make sure he's okay because that was your job, that's a lot of kids job

when their parents are addicts and their parents are struggling with mental health issues it's to make sure they're okay and there's a part of your heart and mind that thinks you failed and I need you to hear you did not fail you didn't and mind that thinks you failed. And I need you to hear you did not fail. You didn't. You loved that man and that man loved you.

And as you said it, you said it so great. He was sick and he died by suicide. And when you let him go, the greatest gift you can give your old man is to go live fully and love recklessly and to be the little girl and grow up into the extraordinary woman that I know you are and live, live, live. Practically speaking, I know that sounds so easy. And you're like, cool, man. But sometimes I wake up on Tuesdays and I can't breathe. Right. Like all these little cliche things, some of this is

going to be, and again, I feel like I'm a broken record sometimes. Um, I just have seen this be so cathartic in my personal life, but in so many other folks is whether you keep a journal, if I'm you, here's what I do. And I've said this recently, I would go overpay and you may have already done this. I'd go overpay for a fancy pants, leather journal, and it would just be letters to dad. And when you wake up in the morning and you can't breathe, I'd write him a note, write him a letter. And when you are having a good coming up on a birthday that you wish you were there or you meet somebody that you're attracted to and you want to talk to him about it, write it down. And what you're going to do is you're going to begin, your brain will begin to recognize we're safe, we're here.

And it will stop sounding all the alarms as though there's a still present emergency because there's not. But your brain is still acting like it is. Yeah. I also want you to spend four or five weeks, maybe once a week. I want you to write a letter to little Nikki. I did this recently and it was really profound. I wrote some letters to John as a kid, 14 year old Johnold John, seven-year-old John. And I let John know that he's a good kid and it wasn't his job to fill in the blank X, Y, Z. And yeah, that was a mean thing that he said. And I was nine, right? There was just some letting me off the hook. And I want you to write young Nikki some stories, some letters, and let her know that she did the best she could. She's a kid.

She deserved better. And she was loved by her mom and her dad. And she just grew up in a chaotic situation. I really want you to stay connected to a counselor during this tough season. At some point, when you're writing letters to your dad, you're going to get really,

really angry. Have you been there yet? A few times. Good. I want you to know that's not dishonoring of him. Okay? It's okay to be really, really angry. And when you have your first little baby or you get your first big promotion, you say,

I'm not having any kids. I'm just going to go be a rock star he should have been there and he's not and so it's okay to be angry and it's okay to grieve that and it's okay to be really really sad about that and give yourself permission

to slowly open the shades back up and then here's the last thing laughter and joy and dating and Christmases and new presents and jumping up and down and screaming because you're excited about something is

not a dishonoring of your dad. Yeah. And there's those moments when you feel joy and then you feel like you're not supposed to have joy because this happened. Is that right? Sometimes, yeah. Yeah. You deserve joy and laughter and happiness.

And when the grief waves come, you breathe and you go, man, I miss him. And you grab that little journal and you say, Dad, I miss you. I wish you were here today. But I'm living like a wild lady just like you trained me. Except I'm driving the speed limit, Dad, I am.

Good grief. And I'm a cop's kid too, so I get it. And I'm doing all the thing, right? But I miss you. And then what you're going to find is that grief, that wave, it's going to feel like an ocean. It's going to come over you, and it will go from lasting all morning, lasting three days, to lasting 30 minutes, to lasting five minutes. And then you're going to come up with

a series of practices, whether it's walking, whether it's texting somebody that you love, whether it is writing a quick note, whether it's just looking up in the sky, you're going to come up with a quick series of things. And over the next six months, year, two years, these cycles will happen faster and faster. And it's hard. And I'm so sorry that you went through this, but I need you to let little Nikki go. I need you to let grownup Nikki go.

And I need you to live, live, live. That's the best way to honor your dad. And if you're a police officer out there, if you love a police officer, if you love a fireman, if you love somebody in the military, if you love somebody who is in a marginalized population, is routinely not safe, routinely having to go to places where they are under pressure,

I need you to go get places where they are under pressure I need you to go get the help that you need I need you to grab their face and look them in the eye with both hands and say I love you and I need you to call somebody the last couple years has been really really hard on a lot of different people

and I don't like getting phone calls from buddies who say so-and-so passed away, whooped by suicide, and they're police officers and firemen, and military folks, and police officers that I still work with and talk to, and they are struggling. The members of my community that are on the margins are struggling. Please get the help you need. Thank you so, so much, Nikki, for your honesty and for openness. And I'm healing around the corner. We'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet

has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life.

Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back. Let's take one more call. Let's go to Elizabeth in Newport, Oregon. Hey, Elizabeth, what's going on? Hi, Dr. Deloney. It's an honor to talk to you. It is more of an honor to talk to you, I promise.

How's it going? Oh, it's going better than I deserve. Excellent, excellent. So what's up? How can I help? Okay, so, sheesh, this gets pretty complicated. Okay. So I'll just kind of start with my questions.

I'm dealing with quite a bit of regret following a divorce. And I'm also having issues dealing with, now that I am divorced, the thought of having children. I basically got a second chance to have children if I wanted them. So that's, yeah. So how long have you been divorced? Less than a year. Okay. Why'd you get divorced? Well, some brief context.

I'm a longtime Ramsey listener. I'm debt-free, and this is basically a whole year of gazelle intensity, like all coming in at once, all coming down at once. Basically, starting in 2019, my mother and brother both passed away, both from mental illness and addiction. And right in the middle of that is when my divorce was going down. What precipitated that divorce? Somebody cheat on somebody?

Y'all just didn't like each other anymore? What was it? Oh, God, it was a mess. See, I guess the biggest thing with the divorce was, like, I mean, we'd go on through a bunch of things, and then... I know, but what was it? What was it? What was it? You've got like a, there's like two things. What are they? Um, well, I would say the biggest issue was probably like my severe body dysmorphia. Okay. Um, and then just our, just our inability, like we did everything wrong, basically everything

that, you know, Dave Ramsey talks to, I mean, you guys talk about it too. Like we moved in together before we were married. We got a house before we were married. We had debt, like we didn't combine finances. Like it was all, and I went head to head with my in-laws a bunch of times, which was stupid. Like I learned a lot of lessons. So there's just a lot of pressure on this relationship early on. And then in the middle of it, it's a lot of lessons. So there's just a lot of pressure on this relationship early on. And then the middle of it's a lot of grief.

And if you grow up in a home where you've got a mother with, with mental health challenges and your brother's got mental health challenges and there's addiction, then you may have picked up some different pictures and different models that weren't healthy. And not to mention whatever genetic components and all that stuff whatever abuse and stuff you suffered and so there was a lot of pressure on this thing and you said I didn't take a break is that right or I'm out

or he said I'm out we both I mean we both did like he basically when we were talking about divorce like he offered to reconcile and I just said no. And then a couple months into that, the separation, I tried to reconcile twice, and he said no. So then we just went through with it. And then I sold my house, paid off my debt, bought a van, moved across the country, literally to the West Coast from New York, and lived in the van off-grid for four months. I've been living off-grid for four months in a van. Down by a river?

Please say yes. Please say yes. Literally. Literally. Really? That's fantastic. Literally down by a river. Elizabeth, yes.

I'm going to start calling you Matt Foley. All right. So there's an old saying in counseling, which is the tyranny of accomplishing all of your dreams. Right. And you're not accomplishing all of your dreams, but one of the worst things that happens when we make major life changes, whether that's taking a new job, cheating on our spouses with somebody who finally is acknowledging that we're good looking or that we're lovable or that they make us feel sexy again. Or moving across the country in a van down by a river. Whatever the thing is.

Paying off all of your debts. Whatever the thing is. What catches millions of people off guard is that when you reach these new milestones, you go with you. And you experienced deep tragedy. And if you grew up in the house of an addict or somebody with mental health challenges, you also grew up not liking your mom sometimes, probably hating your mom sometimes. And then you have to reconcile that with the grief you feel because your mom died. And then you've got that guilt on top of you and then your brother and all those things and i should have and i could have and here we are in this grief and now my in-laws are idiots and my

husband and i are just stumbling through this thing right and i'm just gonna run and the problem is you showed up in that van down by the river on the West coast, right? Yeah. And he came with me in my brain. Like all this regret is basically, cause I do a lot of dream recording. I pay attention to my dreams and like, I get these just invasive, persistent dreams about marriage. And like, it's almost brought me to the point where I reached out to him to see, you know, to try again. But, like, who wants that phone call? Like, I don't want to be, you know, the ex that calls you back.

Like, I just don't feel that would be appropriate. Like, we had as many reasons to continue the divorce as to stay together. Like, there were so many things. And, like, now that— Yeah, I don't—see, I don't buy that. Okay. Y'all chose to get divorced. And when it comes to reasons and things, I mean, I've just seen couples work through the most insane things. And so you can point to it's because of this, it's because of this, it's because of this.

But at the end of the day, it was because you don't want to be with that person anymore. And so it's like, well, it's not like a teeter-totter or like a scale where you're like, well, there's this many reasons to stay and this many reasons to leave. No, you just left. And so it's like, well, it's not like a teeter totter or like a scale where you're like, well, there's just many reasons to stay in this many reasons to sleep. No, you just left and he left. And so it sounds to me like you are desperately painfully and probably pathologically lonely and you are exhausted. Definitely that one. And you are scared, and you are completely and totally alone. And you may have gotten divorced because you were in the middle of a hurricane and you just left home.

Like, I got to get out of here. And now the hurricane has passed, and you're coming, you're interested in going back and see if your home's still standing. All that stuff's, I mean, you're not crazy and you're not wrong.

And who wants that phone call? He may desperately be dreaming of that phone call. Or you may be making that phone call because you're desperate. Either way, what I would tell you is in this moment in history, be true to yourself. And if you miss him, call him and say, I miss you. If it wasn't abusive,

if it wasn't violent, if it wasn't those things that, where you are codependent and, you know what I mean? It sounds like y'all left on weird terms. Like you still love the guy and he still loves you and y'all just found yourself

on a train moving west and you just didn't get off. And some of that's- I mean, so get off. I mean, it's true, but so much, because I've basically been doing so much research on marriage and family and everything in the last year, and if I knew then what I know now about marriage, how my opinions about marriage have changed, I would have tried way harder.

Call him. And some of this may be grief. Some of this may be guilt. Some of it may be regret. And it may be less connected to him and more connected to you. It sure could be. Other, this other question that I struggle so much with, with this whole divorce is like

we were 100% on the same page 100% on the same page about not having children and like that sort of changed for me now a little so I got this like whole opportunity to like have kids again if I wanted but my I come from a family of like borderline personality disorder, agoraphobia, obesity, like, opiate addiction, alcoholism. And, like, I am, like, I'm afraid to, like, how does a person know if they're too crazy to have children? Like, is that a, like, I don't, that's what I struggle with a lot, too, because I'm 36. Like, I could easily have another relationship and, like. Are you too crazy to have children? I would love to find out.

It seems so easy to screw up children. One of the best ways you can love and honor children is by first loving and honoring yourself. Okay. And by being well. And by doing the work to be well. What you've done over the last year is you ran. And I'm not going to say running in your situation wasn't the right thing.

You have not dealt at all with Elizabeth. You've read some books. You have got some new information. You've thought about a lot of things. And you're literally in a van down by a river. What you haven't done is learn how to be in relationship. And new information is helpful. It's really helpful. But it won't heal you.

It just helps you. It's like a GPS system. It helps you find the right road, but you got to walk that road. And that is relationship. And what you don't have a model for in your family history is how to do relationship, how to be at peace, how to be well. For sure. And you've got a lot of childhood trauma, is my guess. You've got a lot of adult trauma, is my guess. Turns out. Yeah.

And that's okay. Your past is not going to determine your future if you don't want it to. Is it going to be hard? Oh, my gosh, yes. Are you going to have to work really hard to get new models and to get new relationships and to practice living a healthy life in a way that you've never even seen done before? Yeah, you are. And by the way, you're allowed to make wild, intense proclamations when you're 28 and change your

mind when you're 29. That happens. I'm never having kids! That's what it was, basically. Yeah, and then you hold your first kid with your buddy has a kid, and you go, oh, yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Or, I'm never moving to that

town because that town's too, and I live in that town. I love the way Esther Perel says it. She says most adults will have three or four deep loves in their lifetime, and if they work really, really hard, it'll be with the same person. Same person, yep. Right? I'm actually a fan of hers. Yes, I've heard that.

And so what happened is y'all stopped working at it. Yeah. And so here's what I want you to do. I want you to immediately, today, reach out to somebody, whether that's a counselor, whether that's at betterhelp.com slash Deloney, whether that's a local pastor, whether that's a mentor or a friend, and I want you to say the words, I need to learn how to be in a relationship with somebody.

Okay. And if you miss your ex-husband, call him. You're 2,500 miles apart or 6,000 or wherever. I don't know where y'all are. You're way far apart from each other. And the worst he can say is, I don't want to talk to you. I've moved on.

I'm married to somebody else. All of that relationship is a risk. But what you're doing is you're making yourself a little bit bonkers with the unknown. Am I too crazy to have a kid? Should I have gotten divorced? But just move forward with healing. Just move forward with, hey, how are you, man? How's it going? I miss you. Just wanted you to know.

And he may say, you're bananas. Or he may say, I've been waiting for this phone call for however many months. And it's probably, honestly, it's probably, I don't even want to guess.

I don't even want to guess. You had so much trauma in 2019 and you had so much trauma leading up to 2019 and then we've had 2020 and 2021 and you had a divorce in the middle of that and unsupportive in-laws and your own mental health challenges and your own addiction challenges. There's so much going on.

A lot, yeah. Actually, you know what? I'm going to... I know the internet warriors are gonna be mad at me I'm gonna tell you to pause for a second before you call them I want you to call a counselor first and sit down and talk to somebody

okay for the first time and I want you to if you can at all stop living in a van down by a river go get an apartment and get a full time job and work real hard and start reconnecting with people. Start reconnecting with human beings and be in a relationship with them. And this is going to be hard. And if you can get with a counselor who will walk through this with you or a great mentor that

you trust and someone who's going to hold you accountable and call you on your crap and isn't going to let you just be like, yeah, you go. No, that's going to say that's not how we talk to people. And it may be that you end up in a medical doctor's office to get some medical care and to get a team of people who can help. And by the way, this is expensive. And I know that I'm not pie in the sky. Someone's listening to this saying, I don't have that kind of money. I get that. It's hard.

There are resources out there for you if you want to, if you want that healing. And they are hard to find. But I'll tell you this, Elizabeth, and I'll tell you to everybody else listening, you're worth finding those things. To answer the question, am I too crazy to have a baby? I can't answer that. I can't answer that. I can't answer that. I've seen people become extraordinary and remarkable and powerful

when they are holding kids. And I've seen really brilliant, wonderful people have kids and they just regress and become four-year-olds themselves. And so that question is hard. And so I'm never going to just make a blatant statement like that. I will tell you, you're worth healing and you're worth staring down that generation Terry real calls it a forest fire of dysfunction that has raged through your family for generations now and somebody has to have the courage to turn and face that forest fire and say, it stops with me. And Elizabeth, that could be you.

That can be you. And it will be hard. And the goal here is if you do have kids, that their road is easier to walk than yours is because you're saying no more. And if you don't have kids, you're still worth it. You're still worth it. And if you made a mistake, call them. After you've done some relational work

and you've got a chance to breathe and you're not sleeping in a van, call them. Say, hey, I miss you. But that's for down the road a little bit. Down the road. I love it when in my life, when I look in the mirror and say I was wrong and I need to go fix that.

I love that. I love that. Every, what's the old meditation thing? Every moment is a chance to, every time I have a breath, I have a chance to say, I'm going to start over and I'm going to start over and I'm going to start over. I'm proud of you for making the call, Elizabeth. Now I'm going to be really proud of you because it's time for you to be courageous and go do the hard healing stuff. As we wrap up today's show.

Sorry, Elizabeth. This one's a little bit too close. It's the song we got, man. I got two songs here. Both of them would not be great for you, Elizabeth. And so I'm going to go with the least not great one. It's off the 2008 Fearless taylor swift absolutely are you impressed that i knew based on the album title that was i don't want to be impressed or really depressed one of the two i'm an unashamed taylor swift fan i am too what a songwriter after 20 2008 fearless

album it was her and some boy on a balcony. And it was a love story, and it goes like this. We were both young when I first saw you. I close my eyes, and the flashback starts. I'm standing there on a balcony. Where? In summer air. See the light, see the party, see the ball gown,

see you make your way through the crowd, and you say, hello. Little did I know that you were Romeo and you were throwing pebbles. And my daddy said, stay away from Juliet. And I was crying on the staircase begging you, please don't go. And I said, Romeo, take me somewhere we can be alone. I'll be waiting. All there's left to do is run.

You be the prince and I'll be the princess. It's a love story, baby. Just say yes. And then eventually he says yes. Yada, yada, yada. Elizabeth, this may not be about you. Don't do something weird because I just did this song right here on the Dr. John Deloney Show.