The Dr. John Delony Show - Why Am I So Codependent?

Episode Date: July 17, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A husband struggling with codependency in his marriage - A woman dealing with the nasty fallout of setting boundaries with her family - A wife reeling from the impact of her husband’s alcohol issues Lyrics of the Day: "Mama's Broken Heart" - Miranda Lambert Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Uncle is a kisser. He always has been. Nope, nope, nope. A kisser and a hugger. I mean, we very much were raised to hide your crazy and just go on. Just, you know, we were supposed to be very stoic and not tell anybody anything. Those days are over.

Those days are over. Ra-da-da-da! This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, where we talk about your mental and emotional health and your marriage and your dating relationships and just trying to navigate life and figure it out in a world

that has gone mad. We talk about everything on the show, whatever you're struggling with, whatever you're going through. My promise is I'll tell you the truth. And if I don't know, I'll tell you I don't know. And if I need to reach out to one of my friends across the country who's an expert, I'll do that too. But the goal here is to sit with you and hear your story.

And then we both will figure out what's the next right step. If you want to be on this show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. All right, let's go out to Boise and talk to the great Steven.

What's up, Steven in Boise? Hey, how's it going, John? Thanks for taking my call. You got it, man. We're partying. How about you? Oh, you know, just living the dream. That's so great. Like the last three or four shows, the first caller always says, I'm living the dream. And that almost always means for sure not living any sort of dream at all. Maybe a nightmare, but what's up, man? So my question today is I kind of feel like I'm realizing I tend towards codependency and kind of people pleasing in my life.

And I've kind of tracked that kind of thing how my dad example that for me. He's pretty much been kind of in a codependent type of marriage, really just kind of appeases his way through his marriage, kind of not standing up for what he thinks and stuff, just trying to not rock the boat, just kind of slide on by. And then here I come up through life and go into the life of adulthood and with friendships and work, especially like my marriage, I kind of find myself really kind of doing the same thing. Just kind of not being the real me, just kind of putting on in front of people what I want them to see and not really, you know, communicating well, because I'm just trying to kind of appeasing my way through life, I feel. And have you found yourself that, how old are you now?

I'm 36. Okay, 36. So perfect. So have you found in the last four or five years, it's usually right when somebody turns 30-ish and then on through 35, you have found that the very thing you were working against, which is people leaving you or abandoning you or getting frustrated by you, are now leaving you and frustrated by you and kind of moving on with their lives.

Yeah, a little bit, or kind of getting to where it's more, it seems like that's kind of on the verge of being that as well. Okay, right. There have been a couple like that's kind of on the verge of being that as well. There have been a couple like that, yeah. So what happened that precipitated this call? Like something usually happened and you're like, dude, I've got to think of another way of doing life.

What happened? Well, really it kind of came down to in my marriage. My wife was just kind of like, hey, you know, man, you got to stop being frozen in place. And, you know, you just got to. And you just gotta start having direction and not just worrying about what others think or even more so, I guess, maybe on her part as well. And again, I'm thinking, okay, if I go and say,

hey, this is what I'm thinking I sort of wanna do, well, maybe it doesn't really align with hers. I know we've had a couple disagreements on a thing where she has an opinion one way, I have an opinion the other way. doesn't really align with hers. I know we've had a couple disagreements on a thing where we've, we've, she has an opinion one way, I have an opinion the other way. And in the end, I just kind of go.

And after a while, like, I don't want the fight. I don't, I don't want to keep going around around this. So sure. Fine. We'll just kind of do,

do what you want to do. And then she can see, well, Hey, he's not really on board with this. And so we just kind of get stuck kind of in that cycle, not loop going around and around, kind of the same thing, and nothing really gets resolved because I don't want the fight,

and she wants it resolved, and I don't want to upset her because I want to go this way, and it just kind of goes around and around in circles. So just imagine what happens if you dug your heels in. I'm talking about something minor. I don't want to eat at that restaurant. I've been thinking about it all day. I don't want to eat there. It's gross. I want to eat here. And she gets so mad. She says, well, fine, I'm going by myself. And she leaves you at home that night and you are pissed. And she is so mad.

Is she going to leave you? Is she going to divorce you over that? No, not over that. Would you divorce her? No. So what's the thing you're so worried about? I guess, you know, that it's that I just want to be, I guess, I don't like to be in conflict. I just don't like the feeling of the conflict, I guess. And so I'd rather just say, okay, you know, whatever.

But you also don't like the life that you've created, which is everybody, like what you think and dream about and really feel deeply, nobody cares because you have squashed that so hard. Right. You kind of bound yourself up. Like damned if you do, damned if you don't, right?

Right, yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Was your mom abusive to your dad? Very, I'd say emotionally, pretty emotionally. There was even a couple times she even threw out the threat of a suicide

to get him to do what she wanted him to do. Okay. Did that roll over to you too? Let me say this. So sometimes I can say abusive and people think like hitting with sticks and like physical abuse.

In the psychological world, we talk about position powers and there's the one-up position, which is usually, not always, but usually men. They flex, they lord over, right? They not always, but usually men, they flex, they, they, they Lord over, right. They're big and they lean over, they hit, they throw. And there's often, it's often a feminine position. Not again, not always, but it's the one down position, which is the, well, I guess I just won't eat. Then y'all just go do your thing and I won't

eat. And, or the, um, well, if you weren't so stupid, then I guess this wouldn't happen. So I guess I'll just, I'll just do it all. Um, and either one of those is a absolute power play, right. And to get what you want. Um, and both of them, I think are insidious in their own ways, but which one did your mom use? Uh, she kind of, she used the, um, kind of, kind of the of the second one. Okay. And she would also, and she would kind of utilize silent treatments very well. I mean, as I kind of learned, they would have some issue and she would just transform into

this, look like she was 40 years older than she was, just moping around for three days. Oh, that's mean. And then suddenly, suddenly, you know, four days later, the sun comes up bright and shiny and she's all and everything's fine and cool, you think, until the next thing comes along. Did she do that to you as a kid? Yeah, yeah, she did that to me. And I kind of first became aware of that kind of as a teenager. There was one instance where I kind of had had dropped the ball on something. And instead of, you know, her saying, hey, you know, you dropped the ball on this son. She's like, hey, you upset me.

You ruined my day and kind of put it back upon herself. And then went to kind of the same motions. So I'll catch some flack for this and I don't care. I think parents who utilize the silent treatment on their children, that's abusive. What it's doing is it's taking, it's severing the relationship between the parent and a child and forcing the child to rebuild that connection. And that is not a skill or a task a child can do outside of just any sort of pleasing behavior, right? There's no way a child can fix that,

can be restorative because the power dynamic is so wonky. So anytime a parent utilizes the silent treatment, especially on the back of what you got, which is you failed me. So I feel this way and it's your fault, 12 year old, 14 year old, 16 year old, nine year old. And so I'm cutting off my relationship, your relationship with your mother. Now, just imagine like a football coach doing that or a soccer coach.

Hey, you made me mad, so I am cutting off the relationship with your mom for three days. That person would go to jail. I can't do that. But inside houses, it happens all the time and so we're really I mean you and I could talk for a couple hours and so we're really condensing your life into just a few minutes but

extrapolate that out here it doesn't surprise me that at 36 the greatest gift you feel in your body is everything above the water is still. Because any sort of dysregulation, any sort of, I'm trying to think of it, any sort of fires in the house got you cut off from mom.

You watched your weak father just get beat down. And you guys were left trying to control how mom felt. And that's no kid's job. Okay? And now you got a wife that is somewhat begging you, will you please tell me what you want? I don't want to be married to, I can't anchor into a sponge that is just gushing through life

and will do whatever their boss says, whatever their stupid friend says, whatever dumb neighbor says, whatever their old college roommate says. I want somebody who I can anchor into and who can anchor into me. We can do this thing together. So she's asking you for that.

Why are you scared to put that out there? You know, I guess, kind of like I said before, it's, it's, I have those feelings of, okay, I just don't want people upset at me, or I just don't want the conflict that I would just, I would just rather, I'd rather just hide under a rock than deal with the conflict. And then, um, and then, you know, again, kind of, I guess those, those same feelings of being a kid kind of go up again, where, you know, I was pretty much trained, Hey, just, just, just, just make mom happy. Just, just kind of stay what she wants. Even if you don't, even if you don't feel that's what you really want, just do that. And your life will, will go, you know, you'll be able to slide on by. There you go. And what I don't want for your marriage is either of you to slide on by.

I want you all to tangle and co-create something magic. And good for you, you married somebody that's not your mom, it sounds like. Sounds like you married somebody that really wants you involved in this thing. Right.

How long y'all been married? 14 years. How many kids you got five god almighty five kids okay so is she watching this thing recreate itself yeah or she feels like she's got to make every decision for every person all the time uh she's kind of said that she's a few times said, Hey, I feel like I'm kind of the primary parent here. Oh man. And does she feel like she is, um, has a sixth kid in you? I think so. Yeah. She's, she's sometimes, I don't know if she's really kind of said that out loud, but just kind of in some of the, some of the actions and things said, I could kind of sense that. Do you also feel this, this fear of conflict with your kids too? Yeah, I guess, yeah, probably a little bit.

Where we haven't had like any major stuff yet. The oldest is 12, so she's getting to the point where we're probably going to be hitting more. She comes into her own more conflict and stuff. And I guess that kind of scares me a little bit. All right, so the idea of codependency is I value other people's lives more than my own.

Okay? If we drilled, and I'm going to let them do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want, because at the end of the day, I can't imagine my life without that relationship. My life ends. My oxygen runs out without this relationship. So I'll let them drink. I'll let them abuse me. I'll let them do whatever they want. I don't necessarily hear that with you. What I hear with you is somebody who is very conflict avoidant. And in a weird way, you may not even really care kind of like when my wife was asking me about my wedding like

It took us a minute like for her to understand like no I for real. I just want to marry you I I mean, I don't I literally don't have an opinion on Where we eat what we don't do. I want this kind of music and she's like cool do that So sometimes there's some negotiation there Here's what you've got to do moving forward. Number one, you've got to decide I'm breaking the cycle that I grew up with. And that means you have to acknowledge I don't have a set of skills that I'm going to have to get. And then I'm going to have to practice those skills. You are Shaquille O'Neal back in the day. I can't make a free throw. That means I've got to practice free throws. I can dunk the basketball. Nobody can stop me in the paint, but I can't make a free throw. I've got to practice free throws.

That's what you're going to have to do. And what that means is you are going to have to practice saying out loud, I want this. I need this. We're going to go eat here. Here's my boundaries on X and Y and Z, whatever. And then you're going to have to practice feeling super uncomfortable and letting that feeling just roll through you and probably come up with some sort of language with your wife and say, honey, you're about to get a whole new husband, but it's going to take me some, I'm going to have to work to get there. Will you help me? And she'll say, oh my God, that'd be amazing. And say, I know you probably don't think it's super hot to hook up with your another sixth son. So I'm going to become your husband. What do you need? And let her tell you, here's what I need.

And then you have the courage and the strength to say, here's what I need. And then y'all can start working on meeting each other's needs. And what you're going to find is the whole thing lifts up. It's just going to take some time because you are literally taking 35 years of life and trying to control all deleted in many ways. And also, by the way, you don't have to lose your compassion and your kind of just chill attitude towards life. That can still be a part of who you are.

You're not just going to turn into like Jocko and be like, all right, let's go run 50 miles. It's probably not going to happen. But you can have some opinions and you can put your foot down, and your wife can put her foot down, and that's when the real fun begins. But if you both put your foot down in service of this incredible marriage that we get to decide what it looks like, and this life we're building for our five kids,

then those disagreements are absolutely worth it. You just got to navigate how it looks. I'll tell you, for me and my wife, we don't do good with, it's not spur of the moment, but with flash fights. If a thing comes up and I say this and she says that, we both know we're going to put a pin in this

and talk about it later because we're not going to solve it right then because her things kick in, my things kick in, and all of a sudden, we're going to put a pin in this and talk about it later because we're not going to solve it right then because her, her things kick in, my things kick in. And all of a sudden it's, we're not, we're fighting. We are not trying to solve the problem. But then we loop back in a day at the end of that day, a 30 minutes later, depending on what we're talking about or a week later, man, we can solve that thing. No problem. And I like hearing what she has to say about it. And I like feeling uncomfortable and be like, ah, I really thought this, but I think about, dude, I love that stuff.

And like you, take some practice. Take some practice. I think you're headed in the right way. I think that, let's do this. Let's start this exercise with this. I want you to sit down today by yourself and write down in your marriage, here's four or five things I really, really need.

Here's four or five things I really want for me and my wife, I want for me, I want for my kids. And then I want you to take your wife out and read those out loud and tell her, this is making me nervous and uncomfortable, but I'm committed to changing this. I wanna give you something concrete to anchor into. And then we're gonna practice getting there. And hear hers too, she's got a role to anchor into. And then we're going to practice getting there.

And hear hers too. She's got a role to play here. And the role is not your mama. The role is your wife, your partner, your co-creator, the person that's building this life with you. You got it, brother. Thank you for being brave and giving me a shout. Be right back.

All right, we're back. Let's go out to San Antonio and talk to Kristen. Hey, Kristen, what's up? Hey, Dr. John, how are you? Fantastic. How are you? Good. Thanks for taking my call.

Of course. You're a celebrity in our home, and there may be a little jealousy brewing that I'm getting to talk to you today. So thank you. Well, I am assuredly not a celebrity in my own home, so I'm glad I'm famous in somebody's house. That makes me feel better. Thank you. Hey, so what's up? Well, there's a lot to this, so I'm just going to jump right into it. Cannonball.

Let's do it. Tell me if I have made an appropriate boundary with my family. So I want to give you just a little preface to this story. Of course. At eight years old, I was the victim of a murder-suicide and lost both of my parents. Oh, gosh. And I was subsequently raised by my maternal aunt and her husband. So fast forward 35 years later, I have been married. I have a fantastic husband. He's the greatest in the world later, I have been married. I have a fantastic husband. He's the greatest in the world.

And I have three adult children that are great also. We have our two oldest children are out of the house. And we have a 19-year-old daughter who has special needs. She is diagnosed with autism, anxiety, and bipolar disorder. So she's our sidekick. She goes everywhere with us. She functions at about a 14-year-old level. So we went home this weekend to see family and stayed at my parents' house.

And I'm going to refer to my aunt and uncle as my parents because that's what I was conditioned to do as a young child. So we stayed at my parents' house. Also, my dad's sister and her husband came into town. Uncle is a kisser. He always has been. Nope, nope. A kisser and a hugger. Nope.

So it's always been super weird to me, even as a young kid. I dreaded it, but it was like, hey, that's him. He's weird. What are you going to do about it? That's assault. No. I don't necessarily think of him as a pervert. Doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter. It's weird, right? It's wrong. Listen, listen, listen. It's not weird. If somebody touches you, puts their mouth on you, and we use the word kissing and it has a different connotation and sometimes it can be innocent. If an adult puts their mouth on a child or on somebody else who doesn't want their mouth on their body.

That is assault. Period. It's not, well, he's just weird. It is a violation of bodily autonomy. Can't do it. That's exactly where I'm going. So we, my 19-year-old daughter expressed after uncle had kissed her at lunch, mommy, I don't like that. And I'm like, oh, me either. I've been dealing with it for 35 years. It's gross.

Mom, you go to war. Mom, go to war for your special needs daughter. That's what happened. Good. So I tell my mom that night, you know, this has got to stop. It not okay and again it's like I know it's weird whatever and and she kind of blew me off and you know I just I said she doesn't like it well you know what happened to the days when kids were disrespectful of their elders and they just did what they did you know god dude you are freaking me out, man. That's abuse. That's abuse. That's abuse. No, no.

She just told me my kids could stand to be a little more respectful, that my kids don't spend enough time with her. They don't hug her. And unfortunately, my children are overly close to anybody in our family because my husband served in the military. We weren't home, air quote home, for my kids to be close to any one relative. And so it's just never been a thing that I've been like, oh, you've got to go hug him. You've got to go do this. I just didn't do that because I knew my kids weren't close to anyone. Kristen, Kristen, Kristen, you are right. Okay. Number one, hold on, listen. Number one Hold on listen Number one I'm On my end And I get to be this way

Because I'm not in your shoes I'm disgusted That your mom Talked to you like that It made this a matter Of integrity And honor And back in the old days

When kids would just Let adults do whatever They wanted That like makes me Sick to my stomach Because I got a Seven year old little girl And I'll be damned If somebody's gonna do that to my daughter holy smoke yeah now hold on hold on

hold on number two what this uncle is doing is wrong and in his defense maybe nobody's ever told him your special needs daughter reached out to mom and in all due respect you put her in a situation with somebody who has repeatedly made you feel uncomfortable your entire life and violated you your whole life and she looked at you and said mom please

I don't like this that's your job right now and if she was a 19 year old and she called my show and she didn't please, I don't like this. That's your job right now. Right. And if she was a 19-year-old and she called my show and she didn't have the cognitive capacity of a 14-year-old

and wasn't struggling with a bunch of cognitive challenges, I would tell her, don't ever go again. And if your parents throw a fit, then walk away from your parents because they're putting you in a crazy situation. She doesn't have that kind of autonomy.

She's stuck with you guys. So it's your job to say no. And you can, on her behalf, tell your, your uncle, she doesn't like to be hugged or kissed. So please don't do that. Okay. And then if he violates that, he, through his behavior, is choosing for y'all to not come around period okay y'all aren't leaving y'all aren't abandoning the family y'all aren't after all we did for you no pervert uncle over here is chosen for us to leave because he can't keep his mouth off my 19 year old daughter's body right period and i would go to dairy queen Queen with my family there in Texas, or actually, I wouldn't go to Dairy Queen. I would go to some awesome Mexican restaurant because y'all have the

best food on the planet in San Antonio. For sure. And I would eat myself into a diabetic coma, and with a smile on my face, because I'm not going to be around that crap. I'd smile on my home. So bodily autonomy, when my husband dropped that word on her, very respectfully also. Good for your husband. That a boy. Look at Texans coming around. It's awesome. Well, he was like, Dr. John would tell me to say that.

So it was like a complete shift in her demeanor. And she asked us to leave. Good. She was that upset and told us that she told me that I let an 85-year-old man ruin our relationship. She didn't tell us to have a safe trip home, nothing. She decided that an 85-year-old man had more of a right to y'all's body than y'all do. That's what she decided. And by the way, she's the adult.

She's the parent. Now, I know you're an adult, and there's a mutual respect and all that kind of thing. She's your mom. She's your mom. And if she's going to let an 85-year-old man who can't keep his mouth off people come between y'all, then she's immature, and

it breaks my heart for you, because you don't need to lose another mom but she walked away and that's my that's my other thing is that i for 35 years have have longed to have this mother figure i know the accepting of me and want and and so it has nothing to do with you i know I've just done everything to try to appease her and make her happy, but nothing I do ever does. And so I guess that's where I'm at. It's not about you. I hate this. I hate it.

I hate it. I hate it. Yeah. And I hate to just sever ties, but that she crossed so many boundaries. You didn't. She did. And the way she spoke to my husband. She severed the boundaries, not you. Okay. What you have to do is deal with the heartache and the grief that your mom did that. Not that you screwed something up. I feel like

I betrayed somebody. I feel like, you know, I feel like I'm walking on eggshells with my sisters now. And I feel like, you know, because she's made me feel that way. But in reality, what I want to do is protect my kids at all costs. And protect you, protect your own dignity. You've put up with this stuff your whole life. I have. It's time for you to stop reaching for this woman's approval. You're never going to get it. She'll continue to move it.

Why is that so hard for me to grasp? Again, 35 years, I've sought her approval, and I've never once gotten it. No, because you're still a little girl wondering why your mom left. You're still a little girl wondering. This woman came in and said, I'll let you, I'll take over from here. And what a gracious, beautiful gift your aunt, who you call mom, gave you.

And then she- But there were lots of strings attached. She weaponized that, that's right. She weaponized it. So it was both and. She gave you a roof and she gave you food and that came with a lot of strings. It did. And now you're an adult and you see it. So it was both and. She gave you a roof and she gave you food and that came with a lot of strings. It did. And now you're an

adult and you see it. And sometimes when you're an adult with integrity and you're an adult who has learned from the dumb things you've done in your childhood and you look back, it's disgusting

to see other adults who haven't. Yes. Right? It's maddening. Right. It almost makes you feel insane. Like, am I the crazy one? But here's how I found in my life, how I cut through some of what you're dealing with with

your sisters. And it is to stop using what I call the soft landing words. Like just tight hugs or kisses. That's a soft way of saying, he keeps putting his hands all over my body. He keeps putting his mouth on my daughter's body. And when you use very descriptive language of what's happening, he keeps rubbing his forearm on my breast and I don't like it. He keeps whatever the, he keeps putting his hands really low on my back to where his fingers touch

the top of my butt and I hate it. Right? Whatever the language is, be very specific and everybody gets it. You can't deny it at that point. And they can call you dramatic. Oh my gosh, it's not putting your mouth. It's just kissing. And it's just gross, but it's just fun. It's just Uncle Dent. Cool. I'll knock your lights out. Put your daughters in that situation. Moms of the year. I just don't want to teach my daughter that to suffer through this, but if he does something worse, then tell me. And I don't want to foster that.

The greatest gift a mom can give her daughter, A, is to believe her, and B, is to say, I hear you and I'm taking you out of harm's way. Okay. And so at this point, am I burning a bridge? Do I sever ties? I don't feel like I owe anyone an apology. Of course, I feel super guilty. Listen, you've heard this show enough. Choose guilt over resentment every time. Yes, I know. My husband already told me you were going to say that. You're going to feel guilty. You're going to feel guilty. You're going to feel guilty. It's better than hating your mom.

Yeah. So choose guilt. Guilt that you feel bad, all those things. That's normal. That's fine. My daughter just kept telling me, I'm so sorry, mom. If I hadn't said anything, we wouldn't be doing this. I said, absolutely not. This is not your fault. This is bigger than you. I want you to do something this evening. And if she can hear it, and again, she's got a lot going on. So this is easy for me to say on this side of it. And if she can hear it, and again, she's got a lot going on, so this is easy for me to say on this side of it. And actually, I'm saying this not only for you,

but for every mom with a daughter in a similar situation. And by the way, this is a super common situation. And most of the time, the men involved I don't think are bad guys. I don't think they're all perverts, and they're all just trying to get some from a young girl. I don't think are bad guys. Right. I don't think they're all perverts and they're all just trying to get some from a young girl. I don't think so. I think they're trying to forge connections and the only way they know how

is through hugs and kisses. Yeah. Okay. I think that's the playbook and they didn't have a language for assault. They didn't have a language for... But Dr. Donna just feels so intimate, and I reserve that for my husband.

There you go. Well, I would hope so. I would hope it's not for your uncle, right? No, God, no. But listen, here's what I want you to do with your daughter. This is so weird. I want you to sit down with your daughter so that y'all are eye level.

Even if she sits down and you get on both knees in front of her, and I want you to put both hands on both sides of her face, and I want you to tell her, I am so proud of you. My heart's about to burst. Because when I was a little girl, Uncle So-and-So did that to me all the time, and I hated it, and I hated it, and I hated it.

And either I never said anything because I wasn't allowed, or I said something a lot, and my mommy didn't protect me. I'm going to protect you. I want you to make her feel, not just through words, but I want her to experience you saying, I'm so proud of you. Okay. I can do that. I'll do it. I know you are proud of her. I want her to have a voice. You've taught her that for 19 years.

Yes. And what this also means, let's just cut to like be super clear. This also means you and your husband and your other kids, y'all are probably gonna have to have a different Thanksgiving and Christmas this year. That's okay. That's okay. Plan it. Be intentional about it. We're all going to North Carolina for whatever. We're all going to Dallas. Don't go to Dallas. We're all going to Houston for whatever, like whatever. But we're doing our own thing this year. Okay. And at some point, point maybe maybe mom can have a rational conversation and she'll say what happened what did we do to make you and you can say with all love in your heart and respect and kindness uncle so-and-so made me feel uncomfortable and he kissed me and he touched me whatever for 40 years then he did it to my daughter i 40 years. Then he did it to my daughter. I come to find out he did it to one of my other daughters too. And as long as he comes to these things,

me and my family, as for our house, we're opting out. And so at the end of the day, mom, you get to choose and that's okay. And I know you've got a lot going on, but mom, you get to pick. And then you just smile because she's a grownup. It's about time she stopped one down positioning everybody and pulling the whole boat around underneath the water. Right. I mean, we very much were raised to hide your crazy and just go on. Just, you know, we were supposed to be very stoic and not tell anybody anything. Those days are over.

Good for you, Kristen. Good for you. I'll hide my crazy. That's fine. But when it comes to people abusing my daughter, violating her bodily autonomy? Nope. Nope. By the way, that goes for my son too. That goes for my wife too. It goes for me too. Those days where we all just

be quiet and let uncle so-and-so be weird old uncle so-and-so, that's over. And let it be over in your house too. Thanks for the call, Kristen. You are awesome. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever.

Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself,

where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule.

You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. And you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney. All right, we're back. Let's go out to Chattanooga and talk to Amanda. What's up, Amanda?

Hi, how are you? I'm doing great how about you i am okay okay okay i will i will revise my answer and say i'm okay too what's up um so i'm calling because my husband had a dysfunctional, whatever you want to say, relationship with alcohol. And it just kept spiraling out of control and led to the point where it caused a giant issue with me and our kids. It started affecting our kids. Giant issue like abuse or screaming and yelling? Like screaming, yelling, verbal questions of physical, but nothing I ever saw. What do you mean questions? Like a kid saying he hit them in the head.

And that was an issue. And that led to me removing myself and the children from the situation for a period of time until there was signs of improvement and that improvement came of stopping drinking and there was anger and then remorse came. And then once we kind of reunified as a family, the remorse went away and the anger just stayed. And so I don't know how to move forward in this or in marriage counseling. And a lot of it's just... There wants to be blame placed on everyone but himself. And he'll own that the drinking was a problem,

but he won't own the anger and the, I mean, the things that come along with things like that, where you just, your marriage is going to start falling apart when something like that is in the house. So can I be, can I be real honest with you? Yes. Unfortunately, throughout my career, I've had the honor and like heartbreaking responsibility of sitting with women in a very abusive relationships.

And there's a very similar evasive way they communicate. And I'm hearing that language with you. Because if you were to actually lay out in systematic order, here's what happens. Here's what me and my kids experience. You would be faced with, I know what I have to do.

Yeah. Is that fair? Probably, yes. I want to honor your evasive language. I'm not going to press you on it. Yeah. But I'm going to throw a couple things out that you can either say yay or no, or you can just not even answer, okay? Yeah, okay. You can come home, or let me put it this way. When that car or truck drives up, your heart starts beating faster. And either your kids start getting a little bit maniacal, or they go hide. And you don't feel safe in your own house,

or you're always looking to see where every kid is They go hide. And you don't feel safe in your own house. Or you're always looking to see where every kid is and what's their relationship with dad. Some of that's true. Some isn't. He's a great father, and he loves the kids. Did he get drunk and hit one of your kids in the head? Yes. Okay.

I want you to revise what you just said. Just good fathers who love their kids don't get hammered and hit their kids in the head. Yeah. And I'm a father, so I'm going to stand by that statement. Yeah. No, that's true. And if they do, they are on their face in the mud and gravel saying they're sorry and they will go to hell and back to get well and heal themselves so that crap never happens again. Yeah, and that's where I'm at. It's not, there's just a blame.

There's no ownership. There's some ownership. And then it's like, well, this happened and you did this and you do this to me. And our life is like this because you do this. And it's just. Okay, let me ask you. I mean, I'm. Let me ask you, is some of that, what are you saying true or no?

Is it all nonsense? Some is true, yeah. Like the, like, like we have communication problems in our marriage and I asked him to stop drinking several times and he wouldn't. And when he wouldn't stop drinking, I just distanced myself from him because every time I would hang out with him, it would turn into either a fight or he would make a snarky comment at me. And it was just. What is, what specifically is he saying that you do? out with him, it would turn into either a fight or he would make a snarky comment at me.

And it was just... What specifically is he saying that you do? That I control our lives and I give him no control. And then I ask him and he says that I need to make changes and I asked him what changes and then I am not given any response. So y'all are in marriage counseling right now? You need to let this go, yes. Okay.

So here's what I think the next step is, because everything feels very amorphous, and what he needs is a cold dose, a cold splash of water of reality. And that means you have to do the work of being very specific, crystal clear. This stuff changes or me and kids leave, period. And it was, you did that once and you said,

the drinking has to stop. And it did. What you thought was if the drinking stops, then all this other crap will stop too. And what you found out the hard way is drinking was just covering up all this other stuff and deeper issues. Right. And so now we have to deal with the safety issues and we have to deal with the blame issues. We have to deal with the whatever issues. But if you're going to one of those therapists,

that's just like, and how do you feel? And how does that make you feel? And how does that make you feel? You're just talking in circles, man. Yeah, and that's not the case. But anytime she brings something up, he gets really defensive and angry. Like, the focus is on him right now because of what's happened. And he's just like, I'm tired of just talking about me.

So, I don't know. Here's the deal. You can't control what he does. You can't control what he thinks. You can't control any of that. All you can control is you. And I would be very, very specific. And then also, if you and your therapist and him have worked out, you're right, Amanda. You do do these things.

Then the onus is on you if you're safe. Now, for instance, you don't ever want to have sex with me. That's bull crap. Well, if you come home drunk all the time, or if you're angry all the time, or if the kids are yelling and you're on the couch with a beer, or you're on the couch with your feet propped up going, hey, we're going to hook up tonight, then no, we're not having sex, right? So it's within a context. But if there is, he walks in the door and you heard your kids away like little ducklings. And then he says, well, you disappear every time.

That's probably true. And so I'll address those, my behavior, my participation in this where I can, where I can keep us safe. I will. But I'm going to be very specific about what I need in my home and if he says i'm not doing that then he has made a choice to not participate in that home

because you made a choice that for his participation to continue this is the way this has to be yeah and y'all it sounds like there's some very um it just sounds like somebody at some point needs to cut through all the, well, yeah, but you make, yeah. And everybody's just got to get through the clarity because you're doing it to him too, right? Like, I don't know. I just like, you're angry. Well, what does that mean? Well, it just feels, let's just be real clear with each other.

How does that sound? Good. Yeah. But it won't. I've tried. Okay. But I guess i need to try again well it's more you have to try and with your counselor you have to work out your or what moment yeah and that's the other side of this and sometimes it's a smart thing when somebody's really struggling with anger to have um a very clear designated 30-day separation.

We need to separate here so that you can get a grasp of your anger. Yeah. And there's some rules about that type of separation, very clear paths in that type of separation. And it can be very, very healthy and revealing. But it allows everybody to be calm And it can be very, very healthy and revealing, but it allows everybody to be calm because nobody's having good conversations.

If he feels attacked and you feel attacked and that makes him angry and that makes you shut down, whatever. No one's getting anything from that. But if there's a agreed upon contract between the two of you with your therapist, we're going to take 30 days and separate here. He moves out, you all move out, I don't care. But we're going to figure it out. That's a common thing with somebody struggling with anger that just can't get the

rage under control or somebody who's experienced anger and just their nervous system won't let them be safe in their own house for a second. Yeah, makes sense. And maybe that's the path. You just have to sit with your counselor and come up with your or what statement. You do these things or. Yeah. It's not like an ultimatum or no or kind of.

Yeah, that's exactly what that is. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, he keeps saying, what are you going to do if I drink again? That's a great question. Yeah. What are you going to do? I don't know. You do like every time I'm every time that I think about it, my mind just shuts off. Like, cause I, it, it involves leaving. I think, um,

that's what I say. I think, you know, yeah. Yeah. I think you absolutely know. And I also think that's what I say I think you know yeah yeah I think you absolutely know and I also think that he knows you shut down yeah the same as you know

how to spin him up yeah that's true and you never ever do that do you no of course not he needs to have his or what

moments with you I can't live in a home where somebody's controlling and demands this and this and this and this and this from me okay he gets to do that and you need to have your here's what I need for me and my kids to feel safe and if you got drunk and hit your kids in the head once,

I promise you it's happened before. And as your mom, I mean, as the mom, you got to believe your kids until proven otherwise. Okay. Cool. Yes. Can I just tell you this? I hate this for you.

I hate this for your husband. I hate this for your kids. I hate this for everybody. Thank you. I hate it for you. Me too. for your husband. I hate this for your kids. I hate this for everybody. Thank you. I hate it for you. Me too. The words moving forward are clarity, clarity, clarity, and then a little more clarity. What do you need?

What do you want? And in partnership with your counselor, with the marriage counselor, here is my line of demarcation. Here is my or what statement. And I do think it's fair for him to get his or what statement too. But it's time for both of y'all to start being very, very clear. I hate it for y'all. Hate it, hate it, hate it. My hope and prayer for you guys is y'all are able to find peace in your home.

Your husband's able to find peace and put the needs of his family and your kids and this thing y'all have built. That thing y'all have built is wobbly and it's fallen over. But he commits, you commit to build something totally new. I hope, that's my hope, that's my hope. It's gonna be hard, but that's my hope. We'll be right back.

All right, we are back Hey and in a break from tradition We're gonna go with one of Ben Hill's favorite artists In the world Across his chest he actually has Miranda Lambert's face It's a strange tattoo

I'm not gonna lie Almost prison-y looking but it's cool And man When he heard that second caller say, mama says, hide the crazy. He's like, oh, that's one of my favorite songs. Songs called Mama's Broken Heart. Ben, this one's for you and for caller number two. Miranda writes, I cut my bangs with some rusty kitchen scissors. I screamed his name till the neighbors called the cops and I numbed the pain at the expense of my liver.

Don't know what I did next. All I know, I couldn't stop. Word got around to the barflies and the Baptist. My mama's phone started ringing off the hook. I can hear her saying she ain't gonna have it.

Don't matter how you feel. It only matters how you look. Go and fix up your makeup, girl. It's just a breakup. Run and hide your crazy and start acting like a lady because I raised you better. God, this song's making me angry. This ain't my mama's broken heart. Good for you, Miranda. Parents, stop telling your kids to quit feeling.

Because that's how this thing just keeps rolling through generation to generation to generation. Love you guys. Bye.