The Dr. John Delony Show - Why Don’t I Love My Newborn?

Episode Date: May 17, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A first-time parent struggling to love his new baby - A woman afraid to make decisions - A man wondering if he should tell his community about his cross-dressing Lyrics of the Day: "You Give Love A Bad Name" - Bon Jovi Enter the Ramsey Cash Giveaway here Shop the $10 Sale here Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Why do I hate my newborn so much? Let me just say this. Saying that out loud was scary, right? It's the first time, yeah. Okay, you're not crazy. And I don't think you're a bad guy. Good?

Why do I feel so bad? Yeah. What up? What up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show. The show where we walk alongside you when you're struggling with mental health issues, when you're struggling with your relationships, when you're just trying to figure out what to do next in your marriage, in your dating life, whatever's going on. We're here to walk alongside you. Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291E.com slash U slash Deloney. The letter U, T-H-O-R- working here. Um, it's the best of the best of the best. And, um,

it's a great hookup for all you guys. So, uh, everybody listening, all you men and women. So, uh, thorn.com slash you slash Deloney,

go check it out. All right, let's go to, um, Jacob in Dallas. What's up, Jacob? Hey,

how's it going? I'm good, man. How about you? Uh, uh, a lot of things. I don't know. Surviving. There you go. Hey, sometimes it's the best we can do, man. What's going on? Yeah, um, well, not sure. Maybe if there's a right or a wrong way to ask this. Just jump on in.

Don't get so much hate, but why do I hate my newborn so much? Tell me about it. What's the newborn's name? Charlie. Charlie. Boy or girl? Boy. Okay. How old? Saturday will be eight weeks. Eight weeks. All right. Tell me about it. I mean. Actually, let me ask you some more direct questions because I know that's a, let me just say this. Saying that out loud was scary, right?

It's the first time. Yeah. Okay. You're not crazy. And I don't think you're a bad guy. Okay. Why do I feel so bad? Yeah.

We'll walk through it. And I have a suspicion already, but we'll get there. Okay? But I want you to know, I don't think you're a bad guy. I don't think you're crazy. Okay? Okay. Cool.

So tell me about the pregnancy. You married? I mean, uh, yeah, just, we got married actually when she was, uh, basically eight months, eight, nine months pregnant. So, Oh, wow. Okay. You just jumped to the deep end here. Yeah. Okay. How long have y'all dating? How long were y'all dating? About a year and a half. Okay. And how old are you? 21. 21.

Okay. I mean, I was going to marry her anyways. That's kind of everybody's like first. Sure you were, Jacob. Sure you were. So she gets pregnant and y'all get married right before. How was the delivery? It all went very smoothly um that was all all good

um and then you were told complications or anything you were told by every old man young man everybody in your life that this was going to be some magic moment everything's going to change in the before and the after and this and that and that didn't happen right not not at all okay and then when it doesn't happen you almost start grasping for it like where is it where is it where is it and i feel like i'm trying to force it there you Yeah. So let's go with the obvious and then we're going to work down to some of the more, um, but I think my guess, what I think it actually is going on here. Um, your world has exploded, right? It's crumbling.

Tell me about it. Um, well, not that everything was awesome beforehand or perfect. Well, I should, it was awesome, but it wasn't perfect. Um, I don't know. I mean, so I had just moved to me and my then girlfriend, now wife, uh, moved to Dallas in 2021. Um, so I was 19 when I moved out here. Um, and we had just gotten together at that point, but I had dropped out of school. Um, and we were just trying to figure, figure this out and, uh, got a job and I've just been kind of working since then. But I, I don't know, I've super neglected being healthy or, or,

you know, whatever, especially since he's been born. You know, just gummy candies and pizza, literally pizza rolls every night. Diet Coke. Why are you making fun of me, Jacob? Stop making fun of me. Hey. All right. So let's don't blow by this.

You're 21. Your world just exploded. Your girlfriend overnight became your wife. Faster than you anticipated, right? What limited money you had is completely gone. And you're probably in the negative. Yeah. Your body feels terrible.

And you haven't slept. And at the end of that rainbow is supposed to be this life-changing being. Yeah. And one thing I hear, it's supposed to make all that worth it, right? That's what they say. That's what they say. And I want to let let you know the reason i'm telling you're not crazy one of the most common conversations i have with brand new dads behind closed doors is i've never poured into something i've never given every thought, every ounce of everything I got. I'm

beyond tired and otherworldly tired. And this little being won't even acknowledge me. This little being doesn't like me, just wants my wife, just wants baby's mom. And there's no psychology, there's no physiology for putting so much into this idea of love and not getting anything back. Yeah. Yeah. See what I'm saying? Yeah. Like it was going to be this big hole. Ta-da. And it's not just when you pick him up, he screams at you. Just screams. Yes. And because you're a caring guy, and I don't say this in the pejorative way, like you're just young, like you haven't had a lot of experiences

with kids, with messy relationships. It's easy to personify that, oh, it's a person. It's easy to make that kid 22 years old. And if you hug somebody you loved and they screamed every time and shoved you away, that would be devastating.

And instead of realizing this is just like a bundle of nerve endings that doesn't know up from down. But it's easy to say, hey, it's just a person. It's a being. I'm your dad. Make all of this other just, but it's easy to say, hey, it's just a person. It's a being. I'm your dad.

Make all of this other crap better. And the baby just goes, right? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Okay. So let's,

let's not blow past that. Also, paternal postpartum depression is a very real thing. Okay. Okay. Okay. There is sometimes some men experience an off the table, falling off like a cliff drop in their testosterone after they have kids.

In fact, there's some studies about testosterone kids, men who play with their kids more and more and with their kids, their testosterone will drop off. Some, after the baby is born, it falls off the map. And so everything feels like it's gone dark. Like there's shades pulled on everything. Shades pull on that spark you used to have with your wife. Shades pull on the joy you have going to work.

The shades pull down on this little human who's taken everything from you, including the woman you loved and all of your money and all of your resources and all of your time and all of your energy and all of your sleep and all that stuff. And it's just underwater. And then this little baby becomes the epicenter of your depression most men experience depression

as rage anger hate okay yeah that's showing up everywhere right you're probably although you say i hate my in my, I hate my infant, I bet you are not a peach to be around to anybody else either, right? Nah. You said, nah, nah, man. No, you're not. I work with middle schoolers all day. Holy smokes.

I yell at them. I'm a tennis coach. Don't yell at kids. Jacob, don't be that coach. Okay, listen. I never, ever, ever, ever, ever want to diagnose somebody from this show. Okay? That would be irresponsible of me and all that.

I do want you to go talk to a doctor. Okay? And if you've listened to this show long enough, I rarely say that. I'll tell people to go see to a doctor okay and if you've listened to this show long enough i rarely say that i'll tell people to go see a counselor i'll tell people to write a letter to them former selves and all that kind of stuff you need to go see a doctor okay okay how long has this under current this this time this uh trying to think that sounds. This lower level, how long have you been running pretty low? Before you moved? I've been, I was depressed all throughout high school.

I was severely bullied in middle school and high school. And was, so I dealt with a lot of that and then was finally feeling good when I moved down here. Um, and then it's all kind of just, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Like I, I swear this came out of nowhere, you know, walking down the street and the piano drops on your head. That's exactly right. And if you get your T tested in it, um, and it shows that it fell off a cliff, it literally did. You got hit by a piano.

And maybe that's not it. Maybe that's not it. But everything you're telling me says, I need to go talk to a doctor. And then you're going to end up there in the Dallas area, which has got some incredible resources, going to sit and talk to somebody. And I need you to hear me say,

just for a living, and I've got a two-hour appointment this Friday. Okay? You're not broken. You're not weird. You're not a coward. I would say the broken, cowardly thing to do is just to keep plowing forward.

That's so tempting. I know it is. And then you become like every other man in America. Overweight, exhausted, frustrated, doesn't like their family. Their family doesn't like them. Their face buried in their phone or their face buried in some pornography on their laptop. You see what I'm saying? I don't want that life for you. I don't want it either. Okay.

So you're not crazy you're not broken there's not quote unquote something wrong with you but your body's struggling right now and that's alright okay for

your sake for this kid's sake for your wife's sake will you make a call will you go see somebody I want yeah Will you make a call? Will you go see somebody? I want, yeah. Yeah.

Let me say it this way. And what I'm going to say is it's not fair. And I would say it a little more gently if we were meeting in person, but I need to be sensationalist for this show. Okay. Yeah. Um, if you don't make a call, you are choosing to remain where you are.

Okay? Don't make that choice. You're worth more than that choice. And so is little Charlie. So is your new wife. Fair? Fair. Okay.

I can't solve this over the radio. And I can't solve it at all. It's going to be up to you to do the work. Does it give you any peace to know that this is not uncommon and that you're not defective and messed up and a psychopath?

Yeah. It does. Yeah, it does. Do you ever have any thoughts of hurting this kid? No. not anything legitimate, but, you know, crying at 3.30 in the morning, probably just a, I might just drop you and walk into the room and go back to sleep. Yep.

Go see somebody, okay? Okay. And don't read the YouTube comments on this one okay people are cruel people are cruel hey will you do me a favor will you call me after you talk to a doctor I'd love to hear

they run some blood tests on you and they sit with you for a bit I'd love to hear what they have to say and by the way when you go be a hundred percent honest because you hedged even a little bit with bit. I'd love to hear what they have to say. And by the way, when you go, be 100% honest. Because you hedged even a little bit with me, which I understand. We're on the radio and all that. But be 100% honest, okay? You're not crazy. They're not going to lock you up.

And you've had that thought too, haven't you? Yeah. Yes. You get real dark thoughts. This is postpartum. You get real dark thoughts this postpartum you get real dark thoughts that get loopy on you you try to solve them and then you start imagining all kinds of end of time stuff wow it's your body trying to take care of you man it's got a little sideways let's go sit with a doctor and then you'll end up having to sit with some other people probably in a group of some sort possibly with a counselor great man it's awesome and while you'll end up having to sit with some other people, probably in a group of some sort, possibly with a counselor.

Great, man. It's awesome. And while you're there, you can be able to exercise some of those demons from middle school. Those little looney tune middle school brats are brutal to you. And that low-level grind you've been doing since you were in college and beyond. Listen, you're worth so much. Make that choice for an exciting adventure of a peaceful life. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper

body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn

to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. And you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney.

All right, we're back. Let's go to Anna in Tallahassee. What's up, Anna? Hey, how are you? Partying, what are you doing? I'm actually home with COVID, so not much to do now. Oh, gosh. I'm not laughing at you.

I'm just laughing like, oh, that's no good. Yeah, no, I actually just traveled outside of the country, and that's what I get. So here we are. That's what you get. Some kind of cosmic punishment. You will stay in America. I haven't read the latest literature.

Hopefully I can't catch it over the phone like this. Anna, if you give me COVID, I'm going to be not happy with you. Okay, let's do this. What's up? Yeah. So my original question was, I want to understand why I'm choosing a life of misery. My email was very vague, but just a little background. I'm 25 years old. I'm a mom of two, under two. And a husband. You know, been married since 2019. However, he's been in my life since I was 15. So, I want to say we kind of grew up together.

However, I'm at a point in my life where I have undiagnosed, you know, depression, anxiety. How do you know? Well, I started going to a therapist and she said, hey, I think this is what you have. So it's not undiagnosed. It is diagnosed. Yeah. Well, yeah, I guess so. It's not, you know, by a psychiatrist or anything, but. Well, counselors, I mean, counselors and mental health professionals of all kinds are, I mean, they've got to go through their licensure.

So you've been officially diagnosed. If a licensed mental health professional said you have this, which again, I hate that language with all my guts. I hate that language, but if they told you you have this, then you've got a diagnosis. Okay. So they said you've got anxiety and depression. Yeah. So they said you've got anxiety and depression? Yes. Just because I may have had some depression years back, but again, didn't see a therapist or anything before. However, had children, and I feel like that kind of postpartum depression kind of may have, you know, made it more pronounced.

And so going through all that with them, that's how they ended with that conclusion. So hold on. Before we go further. Do what? Before we go further, I want you to hear me say something really important for you, okay? In a million years, I'm not going me say something really important for you, okay? Mm-hmm. In a million years, I'm not going to dispute what your person told you, okay? Rest on that.

If they're a licensed professional and they know what they're doing and they're not just out there running and gunning and being idiots, cool. And imagine, what's your favorite movie of all time? Forrest Gump. Forrest Gump. imagine you're watching all of forrest gump and there's that scene when he's running and you took your phone

and you snapped a photo of him running that is your diagnosis it's not the whole movie. It's a snapshot of your life. And actually, if you just looked at this picture of a bearded man running, you would think the movie is about something very different than what it actually is about, right? Right. Okay. So this is not your destiny. This is not the rest of your life this is not a confirmed death sentence okay this is a series of experiences that you've been having for a period of time and somebody says

alright took a picture here's where we are right now okay yeah and with that being said, my score is a seven. And I have some childhood trauma that is still there that I haven't probably dealt with. You know, we've talked a little bit about it in counseling.

I've mentioned that, but it still comes up a lot. Um, and so now I'm at a point where I wake up every day. I do what I need to do. However, there's no time for me. There's priorities that take precedent over me. And how do I choose me? And I put my kids first because of the mom you know that as soon as they were born they took priority and

yeah I just I don't know how to be happy and make the decisions I need to make and create a better life not only for them, but for me. And growing up was really hard, right? You've got an ACE score of seven.

That means you grew up in a blender. Yeah. And your body's been through some pretty awful things, huh? Oh, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things at play here number one i just want to call out the obvious you've been with your husband for a long time i think you use the words we grew up together okay what that means is without him realizing it i'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm saying anytime you rise up, you begin thinking about healing,

you begin to alter the dynamic, the homeostatic relationship between you and him. His body gets out of whack. And it wants things to go back the way they were. And so your healing, your I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired of had enough is going to have to include him and he is going to have to be along for the ride. Meaning your healing is going to be disruptive to him and it should be and that's the way things are going to be. Okay? Okay. okay okay here's why i'm telling you that first you cannot do this by yourself and you can't do it without um rippling the water somebody with an aces score of seven 9900 and what's the word 999 times out of a thousand got really good at making sure everybody else was okay that's how you survived fair yeah so much so that you've outsourced that to a 19 month old and a four month old

i gotta make sure they're okay then i can exhale i gotta make sure he're okay. Then I can exhale. I got to make sure he's okay. Then I can exhale. And so for instance, here's a simple thing. Let's say you decide like, I'm going to, I want to lose weight and I want to be healthy. And for two nights, you cook healthy foods. You go for a walk after dinner.

He's going to show up with a pizza on night three. Not for any reason other than he's driving home and he's like man my wife's been doing really good the last two days eating healthy like she deserves some joy in her life and then we're back to the way things were okay so this is going to be disruptive i want you to get that through your heart and through your mind number, I get a sense from you that you go to a counselor and you just talk about stuff. I want you to start going to counseling.

And if this isn't the right therapist, I want you to find the right one with a spirit of, I'm going to work. I'm not going just to talk about this stuff. Because quite frankly, Anna, you have had these conversations in your mind for your whole life, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I want you to go to counseling with the spirit of a sledgehammer and a lunch pail. I'm going to break concrete. I'm going to do some hard work. Okay. Okay.

Now, tell me. You've never seen this in real life life so this is all fantasy at this point describe to me what you want your body to feel like when you walk home fast forward three years you've got um i don't know you might have nine other kids by then at your rate just kidding so you've got um three years from now you've done a lot of counseling. You and your husband have re-imagined your marriage and you walk in the front door. Just tell me what you would imagine that would feel like. Like happiness.

No, happiness is cotton candy and cocaine. Happiness is just a high five on the trail to wherever it is you're going. Don't reach for happiness. That can't be your destination. Okay. Because it's got too many off-ramps. You know what would make me really happy right now? A bag of gummy candy and a Diet Coke.

That would be so awesome. And it would make me feel terrible it would make me really short-tempered and it would make me really want to procrastinate these book edits that i gotta get done and you know i'm saying and and and happy is when i wake up and i've had a good night of sleep and i've taken care of my body and my wife and i are in sync and my kids are i can hear them milling around out laughing with each other and I smile. And then I think I'm really happy right now, but that can't be the objective. Okay. So you walk in your front door. What do you feel? Um, I want to say good. Um, All right, close your eyes. Let's do this.

Close your eyes. Okay. Okay? You walk through your front door. You hear one of your knuckleheaded kids go, Mom's home! And they get up, and they run, and they squeeze your legs as hard as they can.

And you're smiling ear to ear. You guys don't owe anybody any money. Your kids are healthy. You feel good because you had a good night's sleep. And you say, all right, get off, get off. And they laugh.

And one of them shoves the other one. Then they run out into the backyard to go play. And then your husband walks out of his back room and he smiles real big and he says I'm so glad you're home and he drops his shoulders and y'all hug for a minute

when I say what does it feel like I'm thinking of warmth and I'm thinking of laughter and I'm thinking of peace and I'm thinking of yes you've never had that walking into a house before have you no I want you to have that more than anything in the world and I need you to believe me on the front end of this journey

100% you can get there here's what it's going to look like understanding this radical truth you can get there. Okay? Here's what it's going to look like. Understanding this radical truth, your kids can only be fully taken care of if mom's okay. So the best way to put your kids forward is by taking care of their mom. Now, you got really young ones.

Of course, you're going to be exhausted. You're going to get up in the middle of the night. You got a million diapers. Just getting them in and out of the freaking bathtub is chaos, right? Right. That's the season you're in. It's not smooth sailing for a while. That's okay. I promise you, man, when they can go to the bathroom on their own and get in and out of the shower, it's like you got half your life back. It's amazing. But that's not you right now. It's okay.

Okay. So we're going to take this season and we're not going to say things like, I don't have any time to take care of and we're not going to say things like I don't have any time to take care of me We're going to say things like I chose not to take care of myself today And we're going to start using that kind of language Because then we're going to be able to say i'm choosing to take care of myself today Hey, honey, i'm getting up a little bit early to go for a walk only 15 minutes, but i'm gonna go for a walk Hey, honey, i'm gonna get an app out and I don't know how to meditate because that sounds stupid

But i'm just gonna sit here and close my eyes with my headphones in And just follow what those things the breathing exercises things tell me to do I need you to go watch the little ones cool Hey, honey, once a week i I'll do a budget with you. Just talk about calendar. Because I have this picture in my head where you and I can't wait to see each other. And it's warm. And it's peaceful.

And then when you go talk to a counselor, you're going to have to be honest about your childhood. And you haven't done that yet. and then when you go talk to a counselor you're gonna have to be honest about your childhood and you haven't done that yet you've hem-hawed and you've talked around the bush but you you have not said here's what happened to me right right because if you say it out loud then you're gonna have to deal with the ramifications of the people who should have been there to help you weren't there or they may have been part of the problem. Yeah. This journey gets hard.

Okay. Okay. And you're worth every freaking step of it, Anna. Okay. One more thing I'm gonna tell you, I want you to make a list on a note card or on a piece of paper, or maybe you're crafty and you can make it look nice. I don't know how,

so I just gave up. Okay. Maybe you're crafty and you can make it look nice. I don't know how, so I just gave up. But I want you to put five or ten things, action steps that you do every day that your feelings don't get a vote on. Your motivation doesn't get a vote. You will do these things. I will go for a walk. I will put my hands on my kid's face and look them in the eye and kiss them on the forehead for 30 seconds each kid, even the wiggly one. I will do four rounds of,

I don't know, 10 seconds, 15 seconds of skin on skin contact with my husband. Right when we wake up, right before I leave for work, right when we get home, right before we go to sleep. It didn't have to be sexual. We're just going to touch feet. I'm going to hold his hand. I'm going to put my hand on his chest. I'm going to put my face on his face. We're just going to sit here for a second.

I want you to write these things down. And I don't care if you don't feel like it. I don't care if he comes home and he's gross and he does something stupid. I got to get my fourth skin-on-skin contact. Feelings don't matter. What we're going to do is we're building a new muscle that you don't and he's gross and he does something stupid, I got to get my fourth skin-on-skin contact. Okay? Feelings don't matter. What we're going to do is we're building a new muscle

that you've never had to build before. And that is discipline. That is, I'm worth this even when I don't feel like it. I love myself even when myself doesn't feel like loving me back. That's what I'm going to take care of. Okay? Okay. Promise? I'm going to take care of. Okay? Okay. Promise?

I'm already running them down. I knew you would. Because you're done, aren't you? You're done with all this. Yeah. Hey. Hi. I'm so, so proud of you.

Thank you. An aces of seven means you have been through hell. And after you go through hell and you're covered up in all these scars and you still have stitches and burn marks, sometimes putting your hand up and saying, hey, I need help. Raising your hand in the old days got you hit. It got you hit. It got you seen. So just the act of raising your hand and saying, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired is an act of rebellion.

It's an act of courage that says, hold on, hold on. I'm worth being loved too. I'm done with surviving. I'm done with hating myself. I'm done with being covered up in shame all the time. It's time to be free.

You got a hard road ahead of you, Anna. It'll be tough. And you are worth every single step. And by the way, your kids are going to get to watch their mama get six inches taller. This is changing her family tree. Your kids are going to get to watch you and your husband argue and try to move this way, this way, this is changing her family tree. Your kids are going to get to watch you and your husband argue

and try to move this way, this way, and develop boundaries and say no to your family and his family and all, and figure out a new way marriage is going to work. They get to see all of that. This is changing your family tree. So proud of you. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks, let's talk about hallow. All right. I say this all the time

It's important to get away for times of prayer and meditation by yourself with no one else around But one thing you might not think about though is maintaining a sense of community when you pray or meditate And this is especially if you don't consider yourself religious if you question things or if you've been burned by a church experience in the past It's hard to want to get together with other people and that's another reason why I love hallow You can personalize your prayer experience with hallow and they give you three free months to do it You can pray or meditate by yourself or you can connect with friends with a prayer group, or some other community that you choose. And this way you can share prayers, share meditations. You can even share journal reflections to grow in your faith together with others. And with Hallow, there are other ways you can personalize the app. They have downloadable offline sessions and links ranging from one

minute up to an hour, and you can listen where it works for your schedule. You can choose your guide, your background music. You can create your own personal prayer plan and more. I've made it a personal point to begin my day every single day with the hallow meditation on the scripture of the day. It's a discipline and it's a practice, and here's what I'm learning. As with anything of importance and meaning,

prayer takes intentionality, practice, and showing up even when I don't feel like it and even I don't want to. This is discipline. Sometimes you do this by yourself and sometimes you do this with a group and Hallow helps you with both. Download the number one prayer app

on planet earth, Hallow, right now. And listen, viewers and listeners of this show get three free months when you go to hallow.com slash Deloney. It's amazing. Three free months of the app when you go to hallow.com slash Deloney. Go right now and change your life. All right, we are back. Let's go to Matt in the SLC out in Utah. What's up, Matthew? Hey, Dr. Dean. My heart is racing. Kelly doesn't even have a heart,

man, so it's all good. Just kidding. Hey, you're good, man. What's up? I'm calling because I'd like to figure out why the repression of my self-expression causes me distress. Tell me more. Yeah, so I wrote a script to organize some of this and it ended up being kind of like a journal entry

it definitely stopped me or slowed me down if it seems like a lot but we're going to keep it nice and light hold on hold on how off the rails are you willing to get? oh we're going all the way okay we're going to get way off the rails so I can tell 13 seconds into this call two things. You are so good at repression and you're very, very smart, sophisticated even.

And whatever your repression is about has been something that you've gotten so good at navigating that you've created poetry and flowers all around it. So, I'm going to challenge you. I don't want to hear your diary. I want you to say it in one sentence. My name's Matt, and here's what I'm

wrestling with. My name's Matt, and I'm wrestling with a lifelong name's Matt and I'm wrestling with a lifelong repression of myself. Matt, you're still doing it. You almost got there and then you chickened out. Alright, let's try it again.

I'm Matt and... I'm Matt and I am a lifelong liar. Keep going. What are you lying about? I've hidden myself away from everyone in my life, just about everyone in my life, specifically as it relates to cross-dressing. Okay. Hey, I want you to go backwards and own it for a second, okay?

Can you do that? Absolutely. Because we can't get anywhere if Matt doesn't like Matt. Yeah, there's a lot of self hatred there I can feel it all I can just feel it I can man And if we were sitting right here I would stop all conversations and I'd give you a hug

I appreciate it You would have to buy the beers but I'd give you a hug Just kidding I'd probably want to Okay So you guys have a nachos all right the way you introduce yourself is i'm a lifelong liar the way i introduced you introduce yourself is i'm a lifelong theater performer i'm a scam artist and i disagree often when we have things that we don't want to tell anybody about

our immediate childhood environment says if you say this loud, it's going to get you killed. It's going to get you hurt. People are going to leave you. And so often, you can call it lying, fine. Sometimes I call it survival. Okay? Yeah. I want you to make peace with Matt.

So tell me what we're what we're doing you you've you've have you been thinking about cross-dressing your whole life or you have been and just hiding it from people tell me more yeah i i have been um i i think it would help if i if i went to the script i think it yeah just you said, it paints a picture with flowers. If you're cool with that. Let's do it. Yeah, so listening to your show made me heed trauma that I previously disregarded. And it made me feel compelled to take the SPCC ACES quiz

and I scored a 10. Wow, my brother. Hey, can I just stop for a second? Stop, stop, stop. I'm so sorry. For a while, I thought it was an eight, and some digging got me to the ten. You just said that like you get a prize. There's no prize.

No. Yeah. It depends how you cut the lines around these things, right? Yeah, yeah. Let's just say that somebody that should have loved you and taken care of you dragged you to hell. Is that fair? Yeah. Yeah.

And then you tried to get out and they wouldn't let you. And they loved me the best they could and they were great. I love them still today. Stop. Stop defending them. Stop. I don't even know what the deal is. The person I want you defending is little Matt. Okay defending him. Stop. I don't even know what the deal is. The person I want you defending is little Matt.

Okay? Yeah. All right. So tell me, keep going with me. Then what? Yeah. Twice I wanted to end my life and once I tried. Okay. I've set down many bricks, but still carry some from the period.

Yep. I said I was a liar that curated my story. I never felt comfortable telling those around me about my cross-dressing, which was seldom expressed and very personal at the time. And once I did, I lost many of the people closest to me. prophecy that the thing that I was shut out for wasn't necessarily the cross-dressing, but the closure that I was a walking liar. Those are your words or theirs? Theirs. Okay.

One example, I had, you know, all the groomsmen at my wedding, all but one had known about me. And then once that one last one did find out, he rallied the whole group against me. And then I was invited to one of their weddings, which my wife and I flew out to. And I was threatened with physical violence. And I'd say I stared it in the face. I stayed through the party. And I don't, I don't think

I've quite set that one down yet. I, I, I, I miss them horribly. Um, and I did catch on the last call that, that ability to try and soothe others. I felt like I was there for all these people through a lot of their darkest times, a lot of the hardest things for them. And then just one, one whiff of who I am. Um, and, and they all turn their backs. I'm sorry, man. Okay. So now we're through that, the heavy stuff, but, um, Hey, we're not getting through this for a long time. I mean, fear of abandonment is one of the great human fears.

One of the things that our bodies, we fake and we maneuver and we cheer and rally. I mean, look at political rallies. There's no way all the people in those things believe 100%. But we're willing to go along with it because of fear of abandonment. Why? Because true abandonment feels

like death. And you experienced it. Really did feel like it? Yes. Because that version of your life is over. It's over. The one that had, where people had your back and y'all could tell each other everything and you showed up for each other at 2.30 in the morning, they left you. And here's why I want to stay there for just one second. It's easy to point fingers and it's easy to miss them, but you got to go through grief.

You got to sit in it. And it's your body's way of saying this happened this was and that is no more i hate that your friends just i hate your friends did that to you even just hearing it from you saying that that they they left you they were gone um didn't breathe a huge sigh of relief it was kind of nice to hear it not from someone else and not, or from someone else and not try and figure it out. Yeah, there's nothing to figure out, man. When your friends abandon you to your face, and let's go this far, even if they're right,

like let's came out and said, hey, I'm having an affair with my, with somebody else's wife and this and that, and your friends are like, I'm out of here, dude. That still hurts, right? Yeah. Or if you come out and say, I'm struggling with X, or I've got this, or I can't. Anytime your rider dies, look at you and say, nope.

And they're out. It's death. It's devastating. That old life you had is now over. And you got to figure out out of the ash what to do next. And if you have an ace score of 10 often our friends become our families they take on a larger than life role and how we love and how we feel safe and how we do life shoulder to shoulder and kneecap to kneecap and

i don't know there's just something profound. Parents leave, family leaves. All right. That sucks. It's heartbreaking. It's hard, all that. Friends bail on us. All right. So tell me about cross-dressing.

How long since you were a little kid? You were older. Tell me about it. Yeah, since I was very little. And it happened intermittently, kind of on and off for periods. It was something that I could always kind of bury for, for periods at a time. Um, and then, let me ask you this and I'm doing this partly as educational for me,

cause you're teaching me and for the audience. Okay. So this isn't gratuitous. Um, tell me about, was it just, you felt a sense of anxiety relief by just wearing comfortable underwear? Or when people were out of the house, you had a stash of a dress somewhere? Tell me what it looked like. Yeah. I think more curiosity at first.

Early on, I remember stealing some tool from the Thanksgiving display. It was a little material and I put that around myself as a skirt and it was something that I'd done by myself and then kind of hit away. And there were other times like at a family event, I found myself in like a cosmetics drawer and saw like, like maxi pads and I didn't know what the hell they were, but it was just this intense curiosity for what it was. And then that evolved into when I was, I would say, middle school into high school age, I started finding articles of clothing that I could wear on my own secretly that I'd hide away. Still somewhere in my yard,

there's a hole that I buried like a skirt that I was afraid someone would find. I'm just laughing at like some farmer's going to be moaning someday and be like, uh, um, so when you say it all like six inches deep, so when you're talking about like discreet, we're talking about socks and underwear?

No, more like skirts. I went to a private school and there was uniforms associated with it. Okay. So in the lost and found, I'd like found a skirt that I could take with me. Okay, okay. So how is this, does your wife know?

Yeah, so that's one of the big things I take solace in is that the day she met me, I had my nails painted and, um, we hit it off so great that day. And then that, that night, one of these friends that, that ended up leaving me said, you got to call her, man. She, uh, she thinks you're a, you know, the hard F word and, uh, you got to set things right with her and tell her that it was a joke or something and uh so i talked to her about it and so when she met you she thought you

were gay yeah um she didn't but but he said she did yeah yeah okay right okay right to kind of maybe protect in the group i don't know what he was what his plan was um hey let me i'll pause here real quick because i know this is going to I can already see where this is headed. There's something called, I just lost it. What is it called? Fundamental attribution error. You ever heard me talk about that on the show?

No. It's when we get into somebody else's head and try to come up with a story as to why they did what they did, why they said what they said. What I would tell you is fundamental attribution error is a complete and utter waste of our time.

And I would tell you, stay out of people's heads. Who cares? Like the guy. I live there. The guy. I know. I know it does. And it's haunting.

It's haunting because the stories you create are always infinitely worse because you are the always the whipping boy in those stories. haunting, because the stories you create are always infinitely worse, because you are the, always the whipping boy in those stories, and it's hard to look at somebody and be like, man, even if I had been gay, do I, like, are you not gonna be my friend? Are you gonna lie? You see what I'm saying? Like, it's hard to even go there and challenge your friend. It's easy just to look in the mirror and be like, I suck, which most of us do so stay out of people's heads is what i'd say you have enough going on inside of yours i'm confident right yeah i mean i mean that's so much the core of what what ails me is is this this living in people's heads and having this

dialogue that i'm finding more and more isn't true. That's right. That's right. And it's disorienting. Okay, so your wife knows, right? Yeah. So she knew from the get-go. And as our relationship grew, so did my expressions in it. It was something that we shared together.

And it wasn't anything that she ever tried to restrict my expression, but more just made sure that I was, um, like, let's say appropriate for the weather or whatever the situation was or that I felt comfortable in my own skin was important to her. So, so we all have the same pictures and words. When you say expression,

are you talking about, um, y'all would get together like for movie night and you might, um, wear women's clothing and y'all snuggle up on the couch and watch the movie together. Are you talking about y'all went to the movies out in public and you went and had dinner together, um, with you wearing women's clothing? Both. And early on it was, it was like very seldom, um,

that we would go out in public. Um, and then that, that grew some and we became more comfortable doing that okay and did she um was she on heightened alert for people double taking or was she like whatever this is just my husband's wackadoo and it's all good because i love him yep the second of those yeah and i was always kind of high alert in those early days just thinking that there was going to be some outward act of violence towards me or something. I didn't know what I expected. As though you've identified women's clothing as something that is safe and relaxing and soft and feminine. What is it about putting on women's clothing? Or are you in the process of considering a transition? A little of column A and a little of column B.

I think there is a safe bit of it. I don't consider that I'd go through any medical procedures, but even this afternoon, I got laser treatment to remove some facial hair, which hurts like all. Cause they shoot your face with a laser. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's it. It's pretty traumatic. It is rough. Um, but yeah, I have anxiety building and then it's something that I do to relieve that anxiety. Um, but it's, it's the contrary that I build relationships and the,

the less that people know that part about me and the longer I know them, the more, uh, untrustworthy I feel. Okay. And, and being outward about it, I feel like I tear down that wall and that people just get to see me as who I am. Okay. Let me just say it this way. I'm going to head directly into this conversation. I'm going to make a pretty direct statement and I want you to hear me say it's a statement I've been making for decades across all

different kinds of challenges people are experiencing. But I also know that by making this statement, it's a hot button issue. I need to know you and I are on the same team on this. Is that cool? Yeah, same team. When somebody calls my show

and they tell me, I have anxiety, you've probably heard it. I always tell them, you're experiencing anxiety. This is not, anxiety is not a core identity. And so when you tell me,

this is who I am, I want to hug you and say you are math and this and this and this and i know that's very unpopular because we've in our culture currently in this in this little moment in history we have braided together identity and who i am and these things that make me feel safe for these things that make me feel less anxious or these make things that make me feel a little more at peace. See what I'm saying? Yeah. And so what I'm telling you is like, you're my brother, Matt, worthy of being loved. And your body goes, when you put on women's clothing. Now, I'm open to being wrong there. Tell me if I'm wrong or if that strikes a chord with you. It definitely strikes a chord.

More process-oriented, but I wouldn't say that you're wrong. It's just the general behavior is things that I'd kind of compartmentalize as being feminine for fear of being found out, like taking care of myself hygienically, that kind of stuff. I always just pushed off or almost went to the other extreme just to hide it. So yes, yes, and yes. I think that some of the things, some things are clearly labeled feminine and masculine. And I think anybody across any spectrum can look at it and go,

yeah, that's feminine and masculine. And there's a whole bunch of other stuff that is, it's a lot grayer than we like to pretend it is, right? Sure. Yeah. Okay, so you've led me here. What's like the question that's sitting with you? I'm sure you've got a bunch of questions. What's a big one I can help you with today?

Yeah, so my wife and I had moved across the country and it kind of all came to a head with the birth of our child. I thought that it'd be like the last time I could put it all away and just kind of man up all at once and that'd be the end of it. And it was like the opposite.

And I felt more compulsion than ever to just make sure that everyone knew, especially my son. I didn't think him turning 18 and finding out something about me or whatever age. I didn't think that would be healthy for him. But that led us to her and my in-laws, her parents discussing moving out across the country. And heard you say, not by their hand, but in their lap, um, they have to deal with me in some capacity. I don't expect them to love and embrace me open-handed or open-armed. Um, but we did end up having a conversation about it, went about as

well as it could. Um, and I guess the, the final stones I'm carrying on final stones I'm carrying, the final bricks I'm carrying with them is that the father said, I'm not coming here to judge anyone, but it's something that has to be kept a secret from anyone back where we're from. And it was over the course of the next few days, I've been living an absolutely wonderful life. My wife and I are very in love. Our child is healthy. Everything's good. We're baby steps millionaires. We nearly paid off our house. We did all the things to,

for me to feel like it could finally express myself. And, uh, just being told, like, keep that to yourself. I don't know. Over the next few days,

I really just felt like I had to make myself small again. Um, it went away almost immediately, but, but that thought of, uh, making myself very, very small happened again. And I don't know why, because it's not even something that I want to go back to New York and express these things to all these people. I just want to know they're in my corner. So let me, let me, is it okay if I push on you a little bit? Yeah, please.

I've, I've had, I've had similar conversations with people my whole career. Okay. Particularly 18 to 22 year olds with the students I was working with that were coming to realizations of all kinds. Okay. two-year-olds with the students I was working with that were coming to realizations of all kinds. And they would come sometimes stumbling into my office. They didn't want something to be true. They finally wanted to say something out loud. And so one thing I always told them, and again, maybe I'm wrong for saying this, but I always told them, your parents get a minute because your parents have this picture that they have had since the moment they found out they were going to have you. And it was going to look like X, Y, and Z. And now that picture's different. And they just get

a minute and they're going to say dumb things. And they're going to say the wrong thing. And they're going to maybe in your father-in-law's case, he loves you and sees how well you take care of his daughter. And he loves how good of a father you are. And he also knows that he's got a bunch of bigoted idiot friends or moron friends or whatever back home

that will abandon him the way your friends abandoned you. And so there's some, there's some place for compassion. There's some place for his whole picture is different now. And I always want to go on both sides of the conversation. Now I've had plenty of conversations with parents and who've called me and said, if I could do anything in my life over again,

I would have that first conversation back. Right. So every, this whole thing is so, so messy because people want to say what they want to say, but they don't know if they're going to say it. They don't want to be bad, but they also are like,

Hey, this is weird. I've never seen this or this isn't weird, but I feel all of it's so messy. And so just the best you're able to having a spirit of grace, it not only helps that person, but man, it gives you peace, right? Is that fair? Is that fair? Yeah.

And I'd like to say I don't, you know, I've been listening to you for a bit now and I don't feel like I've held any resentment that I'm giving him grace. Awesome. But I also don't feel that they're, the mother maybe more so, but I don't feel like it's an open conversation or that it's something that's revisited and the door was kind of shut. Okay. And so I'd never wanted it to be something so decorative, but I didn't want them to move across the country if it was going to be an issue for them. And I feel like he doesn't quite understand the extent that it's something that I can just hide entirely. And so I don't know how to keep that door for conversation open with someone. And I quote this, he says, there's things that I will personally take to the grave, and this is also one of them.

And so I don't know how to talk to someone like that. There's a couple things at play here, okay? First thing here. Any major change. Any major change is going to affect the relationship with people, okay? That is, he gets to decide whether he wants to be in relationship with his wife and her husband and their baby. And you and your wife get to decide what being in relationship with us is going to look like

for other people. Here's what we're going to say is okay. Here's what we're going with us is going to look like for other people. Here's what we're going to say is okay. Here's what we're going to say is not okay. Here's what we're going to say is offensive in our home. Here's what we're going to say is not offensive in our home. And here's what we're going to accept. Here's what we're not going to accept. And then that's just called boundaries. And then this is who we're going to be. This is how we're going to roll. This is what our life is going to be. And this is what you're experiencing is something that statistically speaking, most people will never experience, but the principles apply to everyone.

In our home, these are our values. This is how we're going to be. And in-laws, parents, friends, coaches, former professors, whoever, if you're going to be in our life, then these are our values. These are the jokes that are not okay. This is how we do Thanksgiving. And then they get that choice. Go ahead.

Yeah, if I had to put a marker on what the value is in this, it's not that anything is particularly offensive or makes me feel bad i'm actually very okay with with that but i would say my value is that when you come into my home that we have open conversation and we discuss the things those elephants so maybe having that sitting down with the your father-in-law and saying the last conversation we said was that I was something, this was something you were going to take to your grave. I need you to know this is something that you will see and experience if you're in my home.

And then your father-in-law gets to decide what he does next. I think that's it. Who do I pay? And here's the deal. You've spent your whole life making sure other people are okay. That kept you from getting killed. And so you still have an inclination to make sure everybody around you is all right. And if you and I were sitting down and we had longer to spend together,

I would ask you, well, I'll just ask you here. Are you interested in, you've said several times, like I wanted this just to be done. Was that was that shame talking or is that man i really don't like the way this compulsive behavior builds up in me uh shame and fear and since i've been expressing myself more i get more outward love from everyone in my, across communities. It's almost affirming behavior. Right. And that's some of the psychology that people come out against is that right now we're in a season when it feels so good.

So many people come up and high five you that it reinforces your body like, ah, I'm extra safe. Right. You see what I'm saying? Sure, yeah. So I guess what I'll tell you is, man, you and your wife have to come to some sort of agreement on here's who we are and here's who we're going to be. And here's what we talk about in our home and here's what we don't talk about in our home.

And then like millions and millions and millions of people, you've got to decide, are we going to let in law a and b come into our house and make their political jokes and complain about the food and whatever and if we're just going to do it for a weekend that's fine no they're great i love them i i really do feel resolution in in hearing just that that simple statement to tell them, hey, last time we had the discussion, it seemed like something that you might take to your grave. But when you're in our home, it's something that you might experience and be around. And I want you to know, I love you guys. I could not have asked for better in-laws. And it's important to me in our house that everybody is

safe to talk. Yeah. I mean, it's great. And expect there to be pushback and maybe, maybe not, but I would, I would expect that. Does that sound fair? Yeah, 100%. Okay. Are you seeing somebody for anxiety? I'm not. I've seen people over time for periods of time and then kind of float in and out. I guess COVID kind of disrupted that for a bit. Okay. How old is your little one? Five months.

Here's what I can almost guarantee has happened. When your wife got pregnant, that, uh, actually you said at the compulsion there, your body remembers, your body remembers the abuse, your body remembers the hurt, your body remembers the exclusion, your body remembers all of it. And it will recall those stories with your little one. That's why I'm so hesitant to say like, this is just me versus this is how my body's trying to stay safe. It's a way it releases this anxiety. Okay. Here's what I'm telling you.

I believe that. I want you to go sit with somebody who's good. Mental health professional. It's good. Now hear me say, I don't think you have a mental health disorder because you enjoy wearing women's clothes. I think anyone who says that's good. Now, hear me say, I don't think you have a mental health disorder because you enjoy wearing women's clothes. I think anyone who says that's incorrect.

I think you are desperate to stop feeling so anxious all the time. Is that fair? Yeah. Okay. As a guy who's gone through seasons when I couldn't breathe, being so anxious, I can't breathe. And I try to solve it with a flurry of activity,

both in my head and both in action. You get exhausted and I get exhausted. I get low and the whole cycle repeats again. So I want you to reach out to somebody and say, just had a new baby. My childhood was unfathomable. I want to have peace. For the first time in my life,

I want to have peace. And I've laid a great foundation. I don't owe anybody any money. I've got family who loves me. I've got a ride or die wife. She even laughs at me. She's great. I've got a kid who loves me,

a kid who's healthy. I'm ready to find peace. Matt, you are worth that. Your little one's worth that. Your wife is worth that. Thank you for being brave. Thank you for being courageous and saying these things out loud. I know this stuff's hard and you've had this in your soul for a long time. Thank you so much. Your willingness to have open conversations is going to help a lot of people. If I can ever help in any way, holler at me, man. Hey, send him a copy of Own Your Past, Change Your Future 2. Hand on the line, Matt. And Jenna's going to get you a copy of that for free on me.

And give it a read and let me know what you think. Thank you so much for your call. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet, Thank you so much for your call more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, one of the greatest songs ever, ever. I remember being a little kid playing air guitar in my neighbor's house to this song. Rocked it. The great Bon Jovi.

The song's called You Give Love a Bad... I love this song, You Give Love a Bad Name. Let's do it all dramatic. Shot through the heart, and you're to blame. You give love a bad name. An angel's smile is what you sell you promised me heaven but you put me through hell and the chains of love got a hold on me and when passion's a prison you can't break free oh you're a loaded gun oh there's nowhere to run no one can save me the damage is done shot through the heart and you're to blame y'all don't give love a bad name y'all are actually incredible hey i love you guys stay in school don't do drugs bye