The Dr. John Delony Show - Why Is Making Friends as an Adult So Hard?

Episode Date: December 29, 2023

On today’s episode, we hear about: - A woman with high-functioning autism who wants to learn how to enjoy people - A wife desperate for her in-laws to move out of their home - A wife unsure of if she should let her stepdad back into her life Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Building a Non-Anxious Life Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Me and my stepdad were extremely close. Once I hit puberty, things started to get weird. He hid video cameras and he tried to get pictures of me and stuff as I'm getting into the shower. Should I move past my trauma to make my family more comfortable. What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Welcome back for another adventure. Talking about your marriage, your emotional health, your mental health, your kids, whatever

you got going on in your life. Shows real people going through real challenges in real time. And for the past two decades, I've been walking alongside people when the wheels have absolutely fallen off everything. And they're trying to figure out what to do next. If you want to be on this show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291,

or go to johndeloney.com slash ask A S K. I hope you are into the new year well this show comes out January 5th one day before my birthday I'm just telling you guys that I want fancy stuff this year Kelly fancy things last year you gave me a

high five and kind of an awkward hug and still kind of been counseling over it and I can't shower it off so this year fancy things fancy things, fancy things. All the things over the past year that you have said about me and to me. And by the way, I just listened to the episode recently where I wasn't here. So yeah, it's not looking real good. Just so you know.

Here we go. I listen, listen, lady. Listen, fancy things. Everybody in the booth, fancy, fancy. But I hope you are five days into the new year And you have not already blown All of your Resolutions

So If you have, I hope you're having a donut Alright, let's go out to Toronto, Canada And talk to Laura The L-A-U-R-A, what's up? Um, not much just the usual is it cold?

you sound thrilled to be alive is it freezing in Canada? it actually just snowed so for those of us in Tennessee what is that?

oh is that when white powdery substances fall from the sky? yeah it hasn't toppled on the ground yet fully but when I said white powdery substances fall from the sky? Yeah, it hasn't toppled on the ground yet fully, but. When I said white powdery substance, Kelly got all excited back there in the booth. Hey, you did, you did. All right, so what's up, Laura? How can I help?

So I'm just going to lead with what I sent in because otherwise my brain is all over the place and I don't even know where to start. Perfect. Go for it. So the question is, how do I learn to enjoy the company of others? And so the context is... Hold on. That was the question just by itself? Yep. That was the question. Unpack that for me. That's a dense question.

Okay. So I'm a high-functioning autistic adult with ADHD. Okay. And I basically feel like I haven't figured out how to human yet. Okay. Had a miserable upbringing. Yes. Fell under the radar and basically only got my diagnosis recently.

Oof. And essentially socializing feels painful okay so i don't know how to do small talk leave a positive impression or contribute positively to a conversation in relationships i can't figure out what i bring to the table and how to connect with people i'm basically fighting years of mistrust of people in general and a brain that essentially ruminates on almost every interaction I have. So I guess the full follow-up is, I guess, how do I as an adult learn to enjoy social interaction when I'm so late in the game and basically when my own brain is sabotaging my efforts? Man, there's a lot there.

Walk me back. You said childhood was pretty hellacious. Tell me about it. I mean, the summary is my dad was a hoarder. Okay. If he got a diagnosis for bipolar, I'd be surprised that he got the diagnosis, not the bipolar part. He admitted he was an alcoholic and claimed my mom was also an alcoholic. Okay.

Basically as a result of him. And what led to your autism diagnosis? What sent you to go get a diagnosis or did you do that on your own? I got that on my own recently. I mean, did you Google it and figure it out for yourself or did you sit down with a psychologist or, and do a battery of tests? It was basically, I had to become an expert on my own because i was sort of flagged when i was a kid as having something but they didn't know what it was and they sort of just gave me like slapped on a learning disability label just for the sake of having some sort of label through schooling but it was never actually properly vetted. And so within the last two years, I basically did that myself and had to essentially sort of figure out,

okay, I think I have this and this, let me go and get tested because the tests cost money. And then was basically gambling to figure it out. And turns out so far they've agreed with me. Okay. So you have, you have gone to get tests?

Yeah. Okay. For both autism and ADHD. I mean, if you ask, there might be a little bit of OCD in there, but that's just my personal opinion, and that is untested. Okay. Adult autism and ADHD often get overlapping diagnostics. That doesn't surprise me. That doesn't mean you've got two things wrong with you. Okay. I don't want you to think, I don't want you to think in those terms.

Like you just went and took your car in because it was making a noise and they said, well, it's the alternator and the carburetor. I don't want you to think of your mind like that. Okay. Um, if it's a true spectrum disorder, that's, that's going to be a different conversation. So I want to leave that to an ABA specialist or to somebody who works specifically with adult autism because there's going to be some gaps there. I'd have to talk to you a long time and have an in-person conversation with you, but I'll give you some broader context that might apply and might also be a challenge to you. So I might not be able to solve all this issue for you,

but I don't at least want to give you some different perspectives or some different ways to think about yourself. Okay. Is that cool? Yeah. Okay. So when you say painful, unpack that for me, be pretty specific. Like interactions with other people are painful.

Where's the pain? Where do you experience the pain, and where does that pain stem from? I mean, I would say it starts with literal physical discomfort. Okay, where? Sorry, probably everywhere. Like, even in just having this phone call it's like no no where in your body where in your body does your chest get tight does you get that warm feeling in your stomach you feel like you have to go to the bathroom like where does that sit you get headaches it's almost like i just immediately want to be out of this situation

but it's kind of interesting now because I'm sort of on ADHD meds, which is new for me. And it's sort of like, it's showing me all this anxiety that I didn't realize I had before. Okay. Almost like that alarm bell was sort of just unplugged and now it's sort of been plugged back in. So like right now it's like heart. Okay. Your heart's just beating a000 miles an hour. Fair? Yeah. Okay. Here's why that's important. You used a word that I love,

and so I want to just flip this on its head, and I want you to think of your life and particularly your body in this way. You grew up in the home of somebody who struggled mightily with alcohol, maybe two people. Are they still married? Yep. Okay.

If you grew up in the home of someone who struggles with alcohol, it's particularly damaging because that person is absent, yet they are right in front of you. And as a kid, it's like grabbing for a ghost. It's like trying to hug somebody that looks like they're there but they're not really there it's incredibly traumatic and disorienting to a child okay or think of it this way it's like trying to plug something in in the dark and you are you're just hitting the wall all around the plug, and you can't seem to plug it in, and everyone's yelling at you to turn the lights on. That's what it feels like, right? So your body develops some really profound alarm systems when it comes to other people, because the two people on planet Earth that were supposed to be as connected as possible to you were there, yet they were gone. And you put on top of that,

a hoarder, somebody who you had to navigate that, a home that wasn't safe for other people to visit, to come into. Your parents probably didn't go out a lot. Is that fair? It wasn't a lot of social interaction? Yep. Okay. So I want you to think through some of those things and then i want you to go fast forward all the way to right now how old are you right now 31 okay i want you to consider that your body is working perfectly imagine you were dropped in a bobsled in an Olympic competition and told, we're going to shove you off the edge of this bobsled and you're going to go down the track.

And we need you to win. Your body would, A, freak out because I've never been in a bobsled. Well, you're in Canada. Maybe you have. I grew up in Texas. I've never even seen a bobsled in real life, okay? So they put you in a bobsled, shove you off the side. Of course, you're going to wreckled, shove you off the side. Of course,

you're going to wreck. It's going to be chaotic. That, that doesn't mean that you did something wrong. That means you were set off on a roller coaster that you did not choose and your body's trying to keep you safe. Other people have been unsafe your whole life. And I bet you got picked on like bloody hell and in grade school, didn't you? See, that's maybe another part of where the problem comes in. Okay. I mean, I was the youngest in my family and it's kind of like probably

lowest on the totem pole. So I sort of developed this nobody in life has my back, so I will mentality. Yeah. So, like, I wasn't a bully myself, but sort of good luck bullying me was the mentality. You were just a cornered animal your whole childhood.

Yeah, that's what I felt. Okay. Have you experienced abuse of any kind? Like if there was a punch thrown and didn't hit and make contact. Does that count? Yes. If you get hit or if an adult tries to hurt you, yes. You ever experienced any sexual abuse?

Not that I would consider that. Would other people consider it? Debatable. Okay. But only one incident? Okay. One is enough. One is enough.

Here's the picture I'm trying to paint for you. People have never been safe for you. So you're 31 years old and you're beating yourself up because your brain's trying to keep you safe and not engage in small talk, not be around other people. Because people who are supposed to keep you safe hurt you or didn't show up for you or made you scapegoat on things. And you learned to fight to defend yourself growing up your whole life. And then you put a potential abuse on there and that's a different conversation.

But you're talking about three decades of your body trying to protect you from other people. The demon here is that other people are like oxygen. You have to have them in your life to be whole. And yet your body has rightfully identified them as the problem. And so if you are, the work you have to do, and it's not going to be solved on this short phone call. The work you have to do is to teach your body over time that those people were not safe. And by the way, if you're still in relationship with those people, I want to challenge you to end that.

End it. Because every time you walk back in that home, every time you walk back in those holiday sessions, every time you re-encounter those people who still have agency over your life, that alarm system is going to go off. Those people systematically hurt you and took your childhood from you.

On the other side, you're going to have to head into the alarm system when it comes to being around other people. The language you used, and again, I'm not going to diagnose you with anything at all, but the language you used is language I've heard walking with people, adults with some sort of spectrum disorder. And interaction is very transactional. And that's the way you described it.

I don't bring any value. I'm not doing this the right way. I need to be fill in the blank, fill in the blank, fill in the blank. I want you to lose the idea the best you can of relationship being a transaction. I bring this and they bring that so that we get this. Okay? A relationship is not a math problem. Instead, if you don't like small talk, don't engage in small talk.

Stand there. Like your presence is a gift to a conversation. You learning how to do something that very few people on earth know how to do well, and that's listen. Actually listen to somebody saying nothing. Is an extraordinary gift. You can often enter into a conversation, say nothing or very, very little and have contributed more to the people in that conversation than anybody just flapping their gums.

An incredible gift. And you deserve and desperately need other people to listen to you. Do you have somebody that you trust, a friend, a neighbor, somebody that you know well that you work with possibly, a romantic partner that knows you, that you can be honest with? I do, but I guess I sort of feel like it's increasingly like I'm dropping the ball somewhere because I'm sort of feeling less and less

like I can talk to people. Why do you feel that way? Are they giving you that signal? Are they telling you that? Or is that a story that you're beginning to tell yourself? Just based on things they've said and ways they've acted. Okay. And just little things.

I mean, like the closest friends I would say moved away. So they're not even physically able to meet me anymore. I sort of lost them as an option. Like I have somebody I can talk to, but they're sort of more increasingly being like saying things like I'm sort of trying to play a victim. Okay.

Do they know your story? They do. Okay. Okay. Somebody hears your story and says that you're trying to be a victim. I'd probably, that would be them opting out of my life for a season, if not forever. You've had a pretty gnarly go of it,

and I'm 100% convinced you've only told me 10%, 20%. Fair? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, pretty much. I know. You have a very consistent evasive cadence that I've heard too often in my time sitting with people. Here's a way I want you to reframe it, okay?

And again, I want you to continue seeking care from a counselor. If you don't have one other than the person you had to pay to go get psychometric testing and that's expensive, stay on the line and we're going to hook you up with BetterHelp for three months, at least for free, and at least they can direct you, okay? Give you a ballpark. At least look over your diagnostic stuff and then begin to give you a treatment plan of some sort. When people struggle with small talk, often is the case,

they struggle with small talk because the conversation is about them, how they feel, how they're not doing, how they're worried about how they're standing, what their arms are doing, what their hands are doing. Are they saying dumb things or silly things? I want you to practice not caring how you stand. If somebody doesn't want to be around you because you stand weird, God bless them. Get them out of your life.

My friends make fun of how I use my hands. Like I talk too much with my hands, and I do kind of weird things with them when I talk. I didn't even notice it until my friends were making fun of me one time. This is decades ago. And they all love me. They don't not hang out with me because of that. And I've learned, I don't care. I use my hands when I talk. I'm not going to spend effort. I got too many other things in my life I'm trying to work on. So instead of

thinking of a conversation as a performance or as a transaction, and when you think of a conversation as mutual presence, one person with another, Sometimes that presence can be filled up with conversation. Other times you may have to practice saying, hey, tell me what's going on in your life. And you intentionally not talking about you for a whole conversation, just listening. Just listening. Not comparing, not going, oh yeah, well, what happened to me? None of that. Just listen. Just listen And when you feel your heart rate start to beat faster like you described on this call or your stomach gets that feeling in it I want you to head into that. Why is my body trying to protect me? Oh, yeah, because other people have never been safe

But I think you are to whoever you're talking with By the way people move away and it's not your fault they didn't move because of you. They moved because of life. Because of a job or because they got married or whatever, they moved away. I want you to practice being in the presence of other people.

Practice feeling that discomfort and staying there and practice considering a conversation not as you put $5 in, I'll put $5 in and that way we'll get $10. No, no, no, no. Not engaging in small talk. How's the weather? Oh, it's cold out here, man. No, I'm not going to do that. How are you? Tell me what's going on in your life and then just practice listening.

These are things that you will do with a counselor. You'll practice the back and forth. You'll practice the awkward interactions. You'll practice not engaging in small talk, but saying things like, hey, what lights you up these days? You have a project at work you're working on? What's the scariest thing that happened this last year? Sometimes I ask those questions and people think I'm awkward.

Other times people are so grateful. That's fine. I am kind so grateful. That's fine. I am kind of awkward. That's okay. There's a lot in your story, Laura. So I want you to continue sitting with a professional counselor, professional psychologist. And when you feel that discomfort relationally,

your body's working pretty good because it's been rough growing up. Now the question is, are you going to head into that discomfort and find ways to teach your body? I wasn't okay then. I wasn't safe then. I'm all right now. Thanks for the call, Laura. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks. Let's talk about hallow. All right, I say this all the time. It's important to get away for times of prayer and meditation by yourself with no one else around. But one thing you might not think about though is maintaining a sense of community

when you pray or meditate. And this is especially if you don't consider yourself religious, if you question things, or if you've been burned by a church experience in the past, it's hard to want to get together with other people. And that's another reason why I love Hallow.

You can personalize your prayer experience with Hallow and they give you three free months to do it. You can pray or meditate by yourself, or you can connect with friends, with family, a prayer group, or some other community that you choose. And this way you can share prayers, share meditations. You can even share journal reflections to grow in your faith together with others.

And with Hallow, there are other ways you can personalize the app. They have downloadable offline sessions and links ranging from one minute up to an hour. And you can listen where it works for your schedule. You can choose your guide, your background music. You can create your own personal prayer plan and more. I've made it a personal point to begin my day every single day with the hallow meditation on the scripture of the day. It's a discipline and it's a practice.

And here's what I'm learning. As with anything of importance and meaning, prayer takes intentionality, practice, and showing up even when I don't feel like it, and even I don't want to. This is discipline. Sometimes you do this by yourself. And sometimes you do this with a group and hallow helps you with both download the number one prayer app on planet earth hallow right now. And listen, viewers and listeners of this show get three free months. When you go to hallow.com slash Deloney, it's amazing. Three free months of the app. When you go to hallow.com slash Deloney. It's amazing. Three free months of the app when you go to hallow.com slash Deloney. Go right now and change your life. Ayo, we're back.

Let's go to Charleston and talk to, is there a song called Ellen? No? I've never heard of a song with the main character Ellen. You should get on that, Ben. All right, what's up, Ellen? No? I've never heard of a song with the main character, Ellen. You should get on that, Ben. All right, what's up, Ellen? Oh, I guess I got to push the button and welcome you back. Hey, what's up, Ellen? Hi, Dr. Delaney.

Hey, Kelly's rolling her eyes. She's like, wow, how long have we done this show? Three years, and you don't have to work this computer. Good to talk to you, Ellen. What's up? Well, so my husband and I have found ourselves in sort of pickles. I love pickles. All right. Long story short, a couple of years ago, well, 2021, we decided to sell our house. And at the time, we had a one-year-old. We were taking care of my husband's grandmother who was 90 and we were working

full-time jobs in the healthcare field around COVID, um, school background. Can I say something mean? Your life sucked in 21. Good gosh. Yeah. So, um, and on top of that, my husband, he, um, does have a little OCD, anxiety, working in the healthcare field with germs, just sort of sent that in overdrive. So with especially a newborn at the time, we pretty much just sort of shut down our lives. So during that time, we sort of just became exiled.

We're just working jobs, taking care of our baby and taking care of his grandmother. So anyways, we decided to sell our house. And at that time, his parents wanted to downsize. So he said we would buy their home from them. They would live with us for about a year until they found someplace to live. And then they would go their separate way and we would have ours I can already tell are they still there

yes oh gosh oh no so you bought their house yes and they were going to leave quote unquote later yes oh Ellen

oh Ellen hey man I don't smoke quote unquote later. Yes. Oh, Ellen. Oh, Ellen. Hey, man, I don't smoke. I just don't, but I want to have a cigarette right now. Like right now. So,

Hey, have you got to see ringside seat where your husband's ADHD and OCD emerged from? Um, well, so you're so kind and loving. All right, go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. Anyways. So yep. So that's where we found ourselves. So now we're in the situation that my husband has just

sort of gone to the end of his line that he's like, okay, I can't live with my parents anymore. So the situation we're in right now is we can buy another home and keep the current home, and his parents would like rent from us, in essence. Or we could sell the home and buy a larger home. So the home we could afford right now would be fine, but in a couple of years, we would want to upgrade to another home. Ellen, Ellen, Ellen, Ellen. Yeah. Y'all are going to spend hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to avoid a conversation. Don't do that. Don't do that. And by the way, this is not your conversation to have. This is your husband needs to be a grownup.

And within the next week, set up a meeting with his mom and dad to arrange an exit strategy for them. An exit strategy is y'all have 90 days. Yeah. This is not your problem to solve. I hate that. And normally, if you've ever listened to the show,

I always tell you, y'all are in this thing together. This is your husband's conversation to have with his parents. This is a matter of integrity. They need to leave your house within 90 days. You will never be able to sleep. Not yourself. And both literally and metaphorically with your husband, if he spends $500,000 running away from a hard conversation with his mommy and

his daddy, I don't know how you could possibly respect him if he does that. And I think the problem, like, so I come from a family that like, I don't know, if you have a problem, you just start to speak your mind. It might piss them off for a second or two, but we, in essence, respect each other. You know why? Because you're an adult. You came from a grown-up family. Way to go, yeah hey listen listen there is no um

I only because I've I've sat with medical professionals and gotten the same diagnostics your husband has there's not an excuse I don't care yeah I know like in that family we just don't care. Yeah. I know, like, in that family, we just don't have, you do now. Because you're in my home with my child, with my family. It's time. Yeah. And I guess we have had to have or tried to have those conversations with his mom, especially his dad. It's not really his stepdad because when his mom remarried, my husband was already an adult,

but we'll say it's stepdad. You know, he calls him dad, but they don't have that relationship. That actually makes it easier. Okay. This is a transaction. So I feel like, like I said, we've said, hey, we just want to know, what are your guys' game plan? Nope.

You know what their game plan is? Nothing. Why would they leave? They have everything. They live in y'all's house. Y'all pay the bills. Just make it a business transaction. This is the deal.

You have 90 days, and you got to find something. It's a little more delicate, but it would be your husband, not you, because you add some complexity to it. Okay. I wish that wasn't the case, but you do. Your husband takes his mom and his stepdad ish sort of dad or guy that remarried when he was an adult, but he calls dad. Yeah. That honestly, not, this is a tangent that tells me what I need to know about your husband. He's so uncomfortable with any sort of relational discomfort period.

He's willing to call a guy that he's didn't meet until he was out of the house who married his mom, dad. Yeah. That's all I needed. You know what I'm saying? That's not, that's odd. Like that's out of a Will Ferrell movie.

Like brother's got a hug, right? That, I mean, it's like, but here we are. That's what I need to know about your husband. Okay. He needs to take both of those adults out and say, y'all have been with us for two years. We bought your house from you with a plan that y'all were going to stay with us for a while and you're going to find your place.

It's time for me and my family to establish our own roots in our own home. And that is where he'll normally go, so what are y'all thinking? What are your plans? They're not thinking anything other than they've got it made in the shade. Yeah.

So mom, by march 1 we're gonna have to ask you to move out and find your own place me and my family need our own home period end of story oh you're just throwing us out no no no if that's how you want to hear it you're welcome to do that you're an adult but no we agreed when we bought your house you're gonna throwing us out. No, no, no. If that's how you want to hear it, you're welcome to do that. You're an adult. But no, we agreed when we bought your house. I'm going to stay with us for a little while. It's been two years. And then as I learned

after many years working with attorneys, there is power in the pause. I'm not going to seek to fill that angsty silence or discomfort. I'm going to state my boundaries very clearly. And with love and dignity and respect, you'll have to leave my house now. And I can tell by your silence,

there's no way this conversation is happening, is there? I think my husband is to the point that he is desperate for anything. I know he knows it's difficult, but I think he's willing to do what's going to be best long-term. Okay. You are not wimping out and you are not making him quote unquote, carry the burden by himself by you not going to this meeting. It's appropriate for you to not be there. Uh-huh. Okay. I think you have significant input on the front end of the conversation. Now, do y'all get free babysitting and stuff like that? His mother is our childcare. Okay. Y'all are going

to have to deal with that. Yeah. Cause she might say, screw you guys. Then I'm going home. Or he might say, I need y'all to move out we need our own place mom I would still like to hire you to be our child care person Yeah Have all have him map all that out y'all to map all that out together But remember she's an adult and she gets to do whatever she wants She gets it's her life and if she wants to throw a temper tantrum and walk away from her grandkids and her son and his great wife, that will suck, but she gets to do that. If she recognizes, yeah, we need to leave. You're right.

And it works out great. She wants to stay a child care provider. Awesome. and it works out great, she wants to stay a child care provider, awesome. But here's what's happening very quickly, and it's not fair to mom or to new dad. Y'all are growing to resent them. Yeah. When they call, when they walk in, when the car pulls up, you're growing to really be disgusted by them.

And I don't think that's their fault. Should they have left by now? Yes, they're not. And so you can't, in one hand, put out your hand to have somebody shake it and then be grossed out or disgusted or angry when they shake it back. It's your job to not extend your hand anymore. I'd much rather preserve the relationship with my mom and my new dad even when it's uncomfortable

instead of being angry or resentful every time they call or show up to the place, quite frankly, I invited them to live. It makes sense. I know it's not easy, though. Can I high-five you from Nashville?

I know this just sucks for you. And I'll just reiterate this again. If you all go spend hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to avoid this season, you're going to lose of thousands of dollars to avoid this, this season, you're going to lose a lot of respect for your husband and you're going to feel pretty isolated and on your own. Well, that was my argument.

I felt like we were just running and not solving any issue. You are a wise, wise woman. So, I mean, I, but I mean, from his perspective

He's like I just need some time To think And he But I don't think That's really gonna solve it There's nothing to think about How long has it been?

Two years Yeah Two years Ta-da Ta-da Two years There's nothing else to think about That's just

That's an avoidance strategy That's punting on second down There's no reason to do it There's nothing else to think about. That's just a, that's an avoidance strategy. That's punting on second down. There's no reason to do it. There's no reason to do it. Just delaying the inevitable. This is his conversation to have with his mother and his dad. And you and your husband come up with the terms of this thing. Here's how much you got 90 days.

You got six months. I don't care what the date is, but it has to be a firm date that y'all communicate to them. Possibly in writing. I don't know if they're renting the house from you, but y'all can decide that. But there needs to be, it needs to be unambiguous. Everybody needs to be clear.

As we say around here where I work, clear is kind. And expect some frustration, some sad, some whatever. Of course, they've grown accustomed to living in your life and y'all have become their entertainment. Y'all become their Insta family. Y'all are their source of like shelter, probably food. And it's time for you and your husband to grow up on your own and get your own place. And if your husband's struggling with OCD and ADHD, it's his job to go get the help he needs. I know because I've been there.

That's his job. What a mess. Do me a favor. Call me after this conversation because I'm interested to know how it goes. And we'll put you back on the air. Or if he wants to call and practice the call or whatever, I'm happy to talk to him too.

But I'm interested to hear how this goes. And for everybody listening out there, it always sounds like a good idea. Y'all just move in, quote unquote, for a while, whether you're adults with adult kids or vice versa. You're adult kids and you're like, oh, y'all just, mom and dad, y'all just move in for a while. Mom, just move in for a while. You can live in the basement for a while. Always have a date on there. Always. You can revisit the date, but always have some clarity. Otherwise, it gets into this swampy mess, and everybody comes out smelling like swamp gas.

And unless you're Kelly, that's gross. She's kind of into it. It's just a thing. We'll be right back. I'm so proud that Thorne Supplements, my favorite supplements on the planet, have continued to partner with me and our show listeners for health, longevity, and just feeling good. Thorne is one of our longest standing partners on this show

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Phosphatidylserine and more I take Thorne for specific physiologic needs for me to keep my body and mind optimized and for overall longevity and health. And here's the cool thing. We've set up an amazing opportunity for all of the listeners of the Dr. John Deloney Show. 25% off everything in the Thorne store and not just on your first visit, but every time you make a purchase through our page and our account. This isn't a sale that's going to change from week to week. All you do is go online, create an account through my page, and you'll get 25% off from here on out forever. It's that easy. Go to thorn.com slash you slash Deloney. That's Thorn, T-H-O-R-N-E dot com slash the letter U

slash Deloney for 25% off everything in the store. I trust Thorne, my family trusts Thorne, and you can trust Thorne too. All right, we're back. Let's go down to the 512 in Austin, Texas and talk to Heather. What's up, Heather? Hello. Heyo, what's up? So my question is, should I move past my trauma to make my family more comfortable? I don't even know what your trauma is. I don't know if you know what it is, but the answer to your question is no no i don't even know what happened i don't even care what happened

yeah but the answer is no no tell me what happened okay so um my mom married my stepdad when i was in like fifth grade i guess and we were extremely close to me and my stepdad. And then once I hit puberty, things started to get weird. You know, he would make comments about different things and it slowly kept escalating to the point where he would text me strange things. You're being very vague. Talk, talk, talk me through it. Yeah. So he, he texted me when I was 15. I, you know, as a 15-year-old girl, I wanted to drive to school the next day. I didn't even have a license. So I went in my room throwing a tantrum, as teenage girls do. And he texted me and said, if you send me a video, I will let you drive to school.

And I immediately was like, what are you talking about? And he said, never mind. Delete this text message. Don't tell anyone. Well, I, you know, went are you talking about? And he said, never mind, delete this text message. Don't tell anyone. Well, I, you know, went to my school counselor the next day. Good for you. And they called my mom in. And apparently, I don't remember any of that.

Like, my brain is blocked out. But my sisters told me that they had to sit down with him, my stepdad. And he said he was crying, you know, and he said he would get counseling, all these different things. And he never did. Um, and then it just, you know, he started, he had video cameras and he tried to get pictures of me from under the doors and stuff as I'm getting into the shower and different things. And so for the last, I would say, five years, I've had zero contact with him. I wrote him a long letter and let him know, you know, I know you did all of these things. The whole family knows you've done all these things and you're no longer welcome

at family events. And so everybody's kind of stuck with that. Everyone was fine with it. Hold on, Heather, Heather, Heather. Why isn't he in jail? I never questioned. My mom's still married to him. So it's a complicated situation. Well, hold on. Your feelings and your driving what happens next, that's complicated and hard. And I'll honor that to the end of time. It is not complicated

because your mom chose a child molester and a sex offender over her children. That is not why it's complicated. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

You as I, you know, as well as I do that going through like just that conversation that you don't, aren't even able to remember would tell both of us that going to court and going through all the drama and getting put on the stand all that stuff would be really really tough and if you choose to not go through that that's your choice to make as the person who experienced this but your mom made her choice yeah and it disgusts me to know i cannot even wrap my head around it you know why because I got a seven-year-old

little girl and I'll burn the world down for her yeah yeah and listen listen you deserved that and I'm sorry that happened yeah my mom has her own set of issues. Like she's an alcoholic and bipolar and all sorts of things. Heather, Heather, Heather. I know that's not an excuse. Don't care. Don't care. I don't care. You deserved a mom that would fight for you to the end of time.

You don't have that. Yeah. You deserved a dad that would have stuck around and you deserved a stepdad that would honor you like his own. So my biological father is in the picture. He was a truck driver. So I think that's why I clung so close to my stepdad because it was the first time I had like a father figure consistently there every day, you know?

And my real dad had no idea any of this was going on until I was 23. I told him that he had no clue. So, but so fast forward to July of this year, my grandmother passed away and my mom asked if my stepdad could come to the funeral to support her. And I was already distraught from losing my grandmother. So I told her, I don't care. I just don't want him to talk to me. I don't want him sitting next to me, but I don't care if he's there. And that went fine, surprisingly. It didn't bother me. I don't know if I was just in shock or what. So I guess the rest of the family took that as like, I'm over it. And now he can be invited to Thanksgiving and weddings and Christmas and different things like that. and I honestly feel like I kind of fell for it

because I was having a conversation with my husband and we have two kids ourselves and I was like telling him I didn't care if he was there and he's arguing, you know, well, our kids aren't going to be around him and I almost felt like I was defending my stepdad because my family wants him back at these family events. And I just don't know how to handle that. Can I pretend you were my, can I pretend you were

like my best friend or my sister actually be different if it was you or my sister, I would tell you to never go around my family ever again, ever. And if you've ever listened to this show for any length of time, you know I've never said those words until just now. Yeah. But not a single one of your family members that you've described on your side of your family deserves to be in the same universe as you. Yeah. Of course that guy's on his best behavior. You know why he should be in jail.

Yeah. And that's, you know, what my sister was saying. She's like, um, you know, it's not like he's ever going to be alone with the kids. Like everyone's going to be watching him like a hawk. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't matter. Okay. It doesn't matter. I see it as well. Okay. It doesn't matter. Okay. You're not the crazy one. Hey, listen, the fact that you said in this call that somehow you messed something, I must have been, you know, grieving. Yes. You didn't do anything wrong.

Yeah. Yeah. You didn't do anything wrong. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't do anything wrong. Mm-hmm. And you can do a lot right moving forward. Mm-hmm. I don't know that I've, I'm not hearing in your story that you've ever properly grieved

the fact that your mother sided with a um disgusting disgusting human being over her daughter yeah i haven't i've always been a mommy's girl and i've always been the person that stands up for her bad actions and And so trauma, you've probably heard this, the fight or flight, you've heard that before? Yeah. Have you heard freeze? No. Okay, there's fight, flight, or freeze. But there's a fourth one that is not talked about very often.

It's called Fawn, F-A-W-N. It's when people hurt us so bad that we keep ourselves safe by nuzzling up really, really close to the person who keeps hurting us. That makes a lot of sense. Maybe they'll stop. I can't defeat them or I won't punch them. I can't get out of them because out of this relationship,

because it would be too painful, but I'm going to take action. My body hasn't shut me down. I'm just frozen. Yeah. I'm going to get as close as humanly possible and make sure everything's perfect. So they,

I won't become a target of their evil. Yeah. It's time to be absolutely done with them. I'm so grossed out and disgusted for you, Heather. I'm so sorry. Yeah, thanks. I just don't know how to... Here's how.

Here's how. How I tell my family, you know, that... In all honesty, heather they don't gosh i'm going against everything i almost say always they don't get an explanation yeah here's what i how i would say it and i'd be very clear i would write a letter dear mom and if sister's involved too whoever's saying like, well, you know, it's going to be okay because we're going to... Yeah. I was sexually...

One of my sisters told me that he's not a sex offender because he never physically touched me. Oh, man. Yeah. Your sister's wrong. Yeah. And so here's what the letter would say. Dear fill in the blank, and I would name them all. Mm-hmm.

For multiple years, this man took advantage of me sexually in my own home. I reported it, and the only adults that stood by me were school officials. And when it continued to happen, my body shut down because nobody was coming to help. I've been very clear over the years that this man is not welcome in my life at family functions, family events. I mistakenly allowed him to attend a funeral in support of my mom. And suddenly that has become permission. It was seen as permission for him to show up everywhere.

As such, I will no longer be attending any and all family functions, period. I wish y'all the best Heather. Yeah. And listen, Heather. Yeah. And listen, that's it. If you were my best friend, I would tell you to block them and delete them from your phone.

Yeah. They have walked away from you in a really grotesque way. Yeah. And then I want you to write a letter to 13 year old Heather and tell her, I'm so sorry that no adult came to help you. And let 13 year old Heather know that that crap stops with you because you're going to defend your daughters. You're going to believe your daughters and somebody will break your daughter's heart. Somebody will hurt your daughters. You're going to believe your daughters. And somebody will break your daughter's heart.

Somebody will hurt your daughters. That's the nature of the game. But you will never turn your back on them like it happened to you. Yeah. Fair? Fair. Very fair. Have you talked to somebody over the years about this?

I have not. It's time. Yeah. Have you talked to somebody over the years about this? I have not. It's time. Yeah. It's time. Can I tell you why? How old are your daughters? My daughter is eight and I have a son who's four.

Okay. Have you started getting super hypervigilant? Very. I mean, my husband, I watch him like a hawk and he's an angel. That's right. He would never do anything. Have you ever heard me talk about GPS pins before? I don't believe so. Okay.

You ever send somebody a location, like where are you, and you just send them a quick GPS pin? Yeah. Okay. Your body does that too. And your body put a GPS pen in men left alone with little girls. Because you were taking advantage of, of,

of by one for a long time. Yeah. And a number of different ways and a number of different places. Mm-hmm. Your brain knows that when a man is around, nowhere is safe. Not even the shower, not even the bathroom, not even your bedroom, not even your phone. Yeah. And so, it's indiscriminate.

Every time you see a grown man with a little girl, your body sounds the alarm system. Yeah. And that's what that hypervigilance is. I'm going to tell you something really hard, okay? Okay. Most people stop the conversation here because they're so terrified of this thing called victim shaming, okay? I'm not blaming you for one thing that happened.

What happened to you was evil and wrong and hellacious. And I hate the fact that no adults came to rescue you. Because that was their job. Yeah. And your husband doesn't deserve to be treated like a predator in his own home. Fair? Very fair. Yes.

That means it's your work to do. Mm-hmm. And we want our daughters, mine and yours, we want them to be aware and understanding, but we don't want them to live in terror like you've had to live the last 20 something years of your life. Fair? Very fair. It's time for you to talk to somebody. This is your work to do. Okay? Yeah. Okay. Will you commit to that? I will. You promise? Yes. You deserve to exhale for the first time in 25 years.

Yeah. You deserve to sleep all night for the first time in 25 years, and you don't sleep. I know you don't. Yeah, I don't sleep. You know why? Because your body would be failing you if it let you sleep, because there's a man in the house with a young girl. Yeah. Right?

Mm-hmm. And it's time for you to let that 13-year-old girl go be a knuckleheaded 13-year-old girl. Let her go be 15 and throw temper tantrums in her room. Right. Right? Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

And let's let your husband have deep really close connected relationship with his young daughter they both desperately need that yeah right yes okay what you're doing you are changing your family tree and you're cutting ties with evil. Yeah. And you know as well as I do, they're going to guilt trip you. They're going to drag you back into the fold. So I would cut all ties. I would delete them out of my phone.

They have cashed out. They chose a sexual predator over their daughter or their sister. And if I were you, I would spend weeks weeping over that, like devastated. And then we're going to figure out what comes next. Cause that's the, that's the world. That's the cards you were dealt, unfortunately. Yeah. Fair. Very fair. Thank you so much for all of your advice. No, thank you for being honest. And your question

as we started this thing, do I need to cash out? I'm having to take a deep breath. Hold on. I just, ugh. No. You never have to swallow your trauma so that other members of your family can go on with their little fantasy land. If an adult chooses to stay with somebody who hits you, who leaves you, who sexually abuses you, and that person's your mom,

and that person's your husband, and that person's your husband, or that person's your dad, they're out. They have looked at you and said, I don't want to be in relationship with you in a real world. I'm choosing evil over you. I'm not going to try to make it your fault.

Walk away. I'm telling you all as a community, we got to start taking care of our kids because the ROI on not taking care of them in this culture of abuse, in this culture of don't tell anybody, in this culture of the insane amount of sexual abuse that goes on with adults and kids, that goes unreported, that goes unprosecuted, that goes un... Oh, he didn't mean it. He's actually a good... It's staggering. And you know how I know?

Because I've sat with these women for decades. And until the adults in the world start coming to the rescue of these kids and not protecting you, we will have hell to pay and we'll deserve every single bit of it. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious

Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we're back. I went for a walk for a minute because I needed to go for a walk after that last call. And so here's what we do. Normally, or in the past, when I end with a call like that, that's just hard and that rattles me a little bit or a lot. I usually just end the show and I've had some people write in and say, hey, that's actually when like the song of the day or the, am I the, like some funny thing at the end or silly thing at the end helps bring us all back up.

And so instead of just walking away and letting that hang like that, we're going to do a quick am I the problem, is it me? And we'll just take a left turn here. Yep. And try to put some light back in a pretty dark moment. Exactly. Sound good?

Yep. If you're asking am I the problem because that's the shirt you chose to wear? No, you look nice. Go ahead. You look nice. Just go ahead. I'm going to buy you a book on how to give compliments because you really suck at it. Just so you know.

Go for it. All right. This is from Joe in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Hey, all. I'm 54. I work in a warehouse environment with five other adult males. I had a situation with a coworker in which he told me to calm down. I felt disrespected and made the choice to walk away,

but to cease communication with this individual. About six weeks of not speaking to him, he confronted me about it in front of other employees. I explained my feelings of disrespect and my choice to ignore him. His response was, sorry, you feel that way, but I'm used to dealing with adults. For a second time, I felt blatantly disrespected, and this time I went nuclear. I stormed into the office and informed

my supervisor that intervention was immediately required. The intervention ended up being a lecture to both of us about how y'all need to respect one another and get along because this is a warehouse crew and you have work to do. Eight weeks later, I haven't spoken another word to that person and I never will. And I also have frustrations toward my supervisor. Am I a child and am I the problem? Kelly, I'm rarely speechless and I am speechless. It's a great day. I see what you did there I mean based on that email

that a co-worker said and I quote you need to calm down yes six weeks of silence feels a bit like a lot and then when that person finally was like, hey, why are you ignoring me? And then you explained it and they were like, yeah, I just thought I was working with a grownup.

I mean, that's probably what I would say. I don't think this person would last very long on this team is what I'm saying. Yeah. I mean, there has to be more to this. I mean... There has to be.

Telling someone to calm down, by the way, no one in the history of the world has ever calmed down when being told to calm down. Correct. But we've all said it. You're like,

dude, calm down. We've all said that. You know how many times you've told me that this week? Probably a million. At least. Yeah. And... John, calm down.

But it's not something to get like, or even, you know what? Hey, the way you said that in front of all of our teammates really hurt my feelings or made me feel disrespected or whatever. But be an adult, dude. Yeah, I would say this. The silent treatment is as childish as it gets. An adult, let's say the calm down was completely uncalled for and worth fighting over or worth like, I'm bringing the pain. Taking your ball and going home is a childish response. Fine.

I'm not going to talk to you anymore. So if you want to be an adult and pull them aside privately and say hey when you told me to calm down in front of all the people that embarrass me please don't do that again and they can go oh sorry you're an adult and be like i am an adult don't talk to me like that that's belittling that'd be an adult way to handle an uncomfortable situation um just choosing eight months later i will never talk to you again yeah that just sounds like it's off Dawson's Creek or something. So, yeah. Well, and they work in a warehouse,

so they're going to have to interact with each other, right? Yeah. How does that work? I don't, yeah. With a small T, he said five people. So, out of the five people, you're mad at one person and the supervisor. Odds aren't looking good for you

getting a Christmas card from anybody. Yeah. Sorry, man. I think the problem's you. And let me say this. I like to, when I feel trapped and I bring it to somebody else and they're like, yeah, what's the matter with you? And then I get super pissed at them and I bring it to somebody else and they're like, yeah, dude, what's the matter with you and then i get super pissed at them and i bring to somebody else and they're like yeah dude what's the matter with you at some point you do one of two things you finally go to the mirror and go all right maybe it's me or you just don't ever talk to him ever ever again that's what i think andrew hasn't talked to any of us in seven months. Kelly. I don't talk much in general,

so it's nothing personal. It's true. It keeps us all safe. So, yeah. I mean, do you think he's a problem? Oh, 100%. 100%. I'm all dancing around it trying to be like,

well, you know, and you're like, yeah, 100%. Even if the other guy was a jerk, like you said, and called him out, have a conversation and be like, hey, dude, that really... Because, I mean, he might have said it in front of a big group of people and been super mocking about it.

He could have been a jerk about it. But say something... Don't do that again. Yeah, be like, please don't ever do that again. That was rude. But, dude, I'm never speaking to him again. Yeah, I mean, that's the definition of... Childish. Child, yeah, yeah. again. Yeah. I mean, that's the definition of. Childish.

Child. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Stupid. If you can't say something nice, nice, Kelly,

don't say something at all. All right. Hey, that's today's show. Hey, listen, go tip the waitress at wherever you eat next. Triple what you're going to tip.

Triple. It's a new going to tip. Triple. It's a new year. Times are tough. Let's put some joy and light back in the world. This is a heavy, heavy show. Love you guys. Stay in school. Don't do drugs.

Bye.