The Dr. John Delony Show - Will My Wife’s Therapy Affect Our Marriage?

Episode Date: April 24, 2024

On this episode, we hear about: -       A husband wondering how to support his wife as she starts a new type of therapy -       A man worried because he didn’t ask his fiancée’s father before proposing -       A woman who regrets sleeping with her roommate Next Steps 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or click here. 📚 Get Building a Non-Anxious Life. 📝 Take the Anxiety Test. 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future  ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭 John's Free Guided Meditation   Offers From Today's Sponsors ·      10% off your first month of therapy at BetterHelp   ·      3 free months of Hallow  ·      25% off Thorne orders  ·      20% off Organifi products   Listen to More From Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. My wife has been going through therapy for a couple years now. What are some ways that I can support her? You'll be sitting next to somebody who's going to look very similar, but who may be going through a tough season as her body is metabolizing what happened in the past. Do your best to not take things personally, and you're also allowed to have feelings too. Hey, what up, what up, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

I think that was too many what ups, but I'm happy that you are with us. Talking your marriage, your mental health, your emotional health, whatever you got going on in your life. We're going to sit with you and we're going to walk alongside you and figure out what's the next right step. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. We have a few people out in the lobby. It looks like there's a family with a kid. Are you 18? How old are you? 16? One of my favorite things in the world is when families come and this show gets super awkward. And I just know lunch is going to be amazing with a teenage son and mom and dad. Hey, take all, they brought you. So you ask all the questions possible that come up. He's like,

no chance. Hey, Kelly, how was your Easter weekend? It was pretty good. We were in Alabama with my in-laws' family for the weekend, but it was nice. Yeah? Yeah. Do they have electricity there now? Just. Just? Just. Yeah. It's still a little flickery, And you still have to take the candle to the outhouse But you know I saw you came into work on a horse this morning And I was like Oh Oh I see

But I brushed my teeth when I got back You did So So we're all good now Woo You went dark on that man I always get into the hygiene Just in the infrastructure

Jeez How was yours? It was good. I got some things checked off my list that I've had on the list since I moved in. Like, I need to change those light fixtures. I need to fix up the front ports and do this. I did a lot of that this weekend. Are these all the things to get ready to possibly?

No, I'm keeping it. It was all the things to... Yeah. Just stuff that needed to be done. I just had like a John you're ridiculous weekend like what's the matter with you you're a grown man it's really it's my kids leaving stuff everywhere and I'm like guys why don't you leave your why didn't you pick your stuff up and they're like you dad I learned it from you yeah I think that's kind of the pot calling the kettle black

so I'm trying to trying to fix the kettle in the pot. You can do that. My husband, who is also not the tidiest, he always says, please take after your mother and not me. So that's how he does it. When he gets on to the kids about leaving their stuff around, he does it that way. He'll say, please take after your mother. So that way that it's not hypocritical.

So you can have that if you'd like. I think he should call into the show. No, thank you. I don't think anyone should take after you. Let's to Cleveland Ohio and talk to Brady what's up Brady how we doing hey Dr. John I'm doing well how are you excellence my man what's up good well hey I uh just want to start off by saying I really appreciate uh the advice you give and and the way you uh provide context and not just take one vein in, uh, in looking at a situation. So I really appreciate that. Um, but the reason I called in,

so my wife has been going through therapy for a couple of years now and her therapist recommended she do something called EMDR therapy. Um, and so as she's kind of getting into that and going through this more intense version of it, my question when I originally wrote in was, what are some ways that I can support her, but also just some information about the therapy, things I should be aware of, stressors to watch for. And then part B of that question is we kind of are at that timeframe where we're considering starting a family and thinking about that next stage in life. And so obviously adding this stress is probably not the best thing to do and throw a pregnancy on top of that for her. So trying to navigate what are things we should be aware of and be cognizant of as we're looking to the future. Yeah. So EMDR, it's eye movement desensitization and reprocessing.

No, I was going to say reprogramming, but you're not a computer. It's reprocessing. Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. It's not a big deal and it's becoming so, so common. And so I don't want you to think that like she's going through a major surgery or something like that. After a few years, I would guess they've talked about the things. Why now after a few years is she being referred to an EMDR person? So I think a piece of it is her therapist went through EMDR herself and thought it was very beneficial for her. And as they were going through it, it was kind of

the next step of like, all right, you know where all of this comes from. You kind of know the why of some of your story and starting to take the steps of wanting to change some of the way you're, you've kind of wired yourself to respond to things. Okay. So have you, have you ever, have you Googled even seen it done what it is? I've never seen it done. I've Googled it and kind of researched it a little bit. Um, you could see it, it could be done. Um, I've had colleagues that do it with a pen, like with the pen they write with. I've had one colleague did it. She did it.

It was like this. It was like a car antenna, like the old school ones that you had to pull up, like that were on like our grandparents' cars. I've seen it done with lights. So it basically just shifts your visual field back and forth and back and forth. And then there's even some auxiliary types, EMDR-ish, which is like tapping, things like that. It's exposure therapy while your body is doing something else. It's focusing on something else. And so the easiest way I could explain it is it's helping your body metabolize thoughts. Or I heard one person say it's like a subway is driving through and suddenly there's a big cinder block and the subway train has to stop.

And that's like memory. And EMDR helps move the big cinder block, the big cement block off the track so that the thing can get moving again. So that the memory can make its way through the body metabolize it and then move on in in deloney words it's teaching your body you weren't okay then and you are okay now that's it right and so yeah i wouldn't be i wouldn't gear up and be like oh here we go um the the i'll just be there's There's kind of some conflicting in the literature. There's some conflicting, does it work? Is it awesome? Is it the best thing ever? If you read some meta analysis and it said, eh, it's about as good as anything else. And you read some that says it's amazing.

I've never had somebody go through it and say it did any damage. I've never heard of that. That study may exist too, possibly. But so if something is generally benign or awesome, I would say go for it, man. Go for it. And I recommend it all the time. So it's not going to be something that's going to... You're suddenly going to get a whole new human being at your house. Well, that's not true. Maybe you will. Maybe you will get a new human being. You're not going to get some terrifying experience at your home. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I think part of this came out of too, that when they were prepping her of what it is and things to be aware of, they kind of talked about resorting back to maybe how you responded when you first started therapy, just because it brings all of this back to the surface and so i wasn't sure if there's things to watch for or be aware of um but that's

really helpful information to know that it is largely viewed as positive and not a lot of conflicting yes so imagine this imagine um they will take her back through some of the memories that she had. And in a way, like, what's the room like? What's the temperature of that room? What's the, where do you feel if she was assaulted as a kid? If she, or was abused as a kid? Like, where's the person now? And so, yeah, it can be very invasive and with EMDR is is it it it takes your attention your physical attention somewhere else and so yes it can be really heavy

I've I've seen it to be really relieving people leave exhausted um but again I I have very limited I don't I I'm not an EMDR practitioner, and so they can write it into the comments here and say other things. Anytime you go through and re-experience some of these things or really go down memory lane, if you will, or what you remember about memory lane, yeah, that can be messy and scary. But my guess is you're going to get an exhausted and or relieved and or wife. Maybe not.

Maybe you're going to get the front end of this thing, and it will be or wife, maybe not. Maybe you're going to get a, the front end of this thing and it will be scary, scary, scary. Um, here's what I would tell you. Can I walk you through a couple of things I would put in your back pocket? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. I want you over the next, um, three to six months to commit to not taking things personally. Okay. Think of it this way. Like if she went through a real wild knee surgery, she had to have her ACL replaced and, you know, whatever, ACL replacement.

And you were, she was laid up in bed for a few weeks and you were changing her bandages on her knee and you got blood on you. She wouldn't do that on purpose. Does that make sense? So think of it that way. You'll be sitting next to somebody who's going to look very similar, but who may be going through a tough season as her body is metabolizing what happened in the past, what she remembers about the past, what she thinks she remembers about the past, and the fact that she's living here now. And so do your best to not take things personally, and you're also allowed to have feelings too. What's the nature of her childhood trauma? I just made up childhood. You didn't even tell me that, so it may not be childhood. What's the nature of her trauma?

Yeah, it is. And it's, so I've talked to her before. I don't want to overshare her story, you know, being here. But there's no physical abuse, but just some verbal, I guess, yelling, not feeling necessarily safe 100% of the time growing up. My guess is there will be, again, I'm shooting in the dark here. There's a whole other backstory, but my guess is she's going to be exhausted and she's going to be relieved. Yeah. And there's been a lot of that so far. Good. Good, good, good. She already started?

Yes. So she's started, she's a few weeks in, but we've had those conversations. It's going to be hard. It's going to be stressful. Um, try her trying to keep her, you know, emotions in check, but just feeling like a tidal wave of all these things coming on her. So being extra supportive and not taking it personal. So we've had those conversations. And I wouldn't, I, I would, I would steer clear of the, keep things in check.

I think her body's been keeping things in check her whole life. And some of this, I want her to feel it. And, and what she's, what she's going to want to keep in check is, um, I always tell folks commit to a series of meetings.

So put on the calendar. Every Sunday night, we're going to talk. Even if she sits down and y'all talk about budget, talk about groceries, talk about normal things. And those normal things open up pathways, avenues towards, can I tell you one thing that I remember during therapy that was said to me when I was a kid? But you don't press and don't push, but make them regular. And sometimes there'll be no conversations. And that's where she's like,

I don't really have anything to share with you. And then if you're like me, you're gonna take that personally. Oh, you can tell somebody else, but not me. I'm your husband. I love you.

It's not about you right now. Right. And so just don't take it personal. We're just going to cool. Awesome. Let's go for our walk or whatever we have scheduled up here. But you're allowed to have feelings too. Somebody hurt your wife, man. We're just going to, cool, awesome. Let's go for our walk or whatever we have scheduled up here. But you're allowed to have feelings too. Somebody hurt your wife, man.

And you're going to hear things, potentially you may already have. Someone said things to your wife, even though it was so many years ago. You're allowed to get really upset about that. Okay. Don't think you're weird or whatever. It's not her job to carry that for you.

Right. Right. But yeah, man man and you know what you'll probably feel most of all powerless yeah because you you weren't there to protect her you weren't there you didn't do any of this stuff and you can't wave a magic wand or turn a wrench and fix it right right right and so the first couple of weeks am i am I on the right track with she's feeling exhausted and almost that sense of relief? Yeah, absolutely. I think definitely the sense of exhaustion of just feeling overwhelmed. And to an extent, I think there's a little bit of she's done all this really hard, really good work over the last few years.

And now all of this stuff is coming back up again of feeling overwhelmed by the emotions and not knowing how to process it when she's done so much work figuring out how to process that. And it's kind of opening that wound again. So I know that's definitely a piece of it as well for her. So just trying to be as supportive as possible. And like you said, not take it personal, but do whatever I can to help her get through it. Cause I know it's, it's not easy. Well, and that starts with that, with that weekly meeting. Here's what I want you to ask. I want y'all to get in a rhythm of asking each other, how can I love you this week? Okay. And when you get you you she's gone to a few sessions what's the best way you feel loved on your way home from one of those sessions like i asked my wife that a few years

ago you know she told me turn the porch lights on will you turn the porch lights on in any i tend to make crazy dinner adventures and experiments that don't always work out right and she said just clean up whatever experiments you've tried and turn the porch lights on for me like when i come down our long driveway into the into the woods makes me feel safe and i was like oh man i thought you wanted me to like get out a textbook and read to you you know i mean like it was not even close to what i thought but But how can I make you feel loved? Can I meet you for dinner? But again, let her set the stage.

And the last thing I would tell you all is this. I want you all to set up boundaries. What do I mean by that? I want you all to commit on the front end of this. Here's a few things that are off the table. Our relationship's probably going to be a little bit different. We're going to have to, I want us to start dating again because I've got a wife who for 20 years

has been holding everything in and I've got a wife who is free in the wind, right? She's like a flower in a field now, man. She's not like this oak tree. She can be, right? Just, ah. And so you're going to date that person now because she's new.

And that's really awesome. But I want you all to set up boundaries. So what does that mean? If she tends to go grab a drink when she's stressed out, we're going to take 60 days and we're not going to drink. If she tends to just Netflix out, let's come up with another. Let's set up a series of boundaries for the behaviors that y'all know keep y'all well.

Okay. Okay. Gummy candy is mine. I just eat trash, trash, trash, trash, trash, like wildly so. And so my wife will say, hey, on the front end of season X,

let's commit to eating clean on it. Perfect. Great. You see what I'm saying? But we set those boundaries up on the front end. I had a friend who went through a really, really traumatic, like one of the worst things you could imagine with his family. And him and his wife, he had enough wisdom to say,

hey, on the front end of us going down, we're about to go down into the valley for years. And we're not allowed to cheat on each other. We're not allowed to, like, this we're not allowed to like this doesn't give us excuse to do x y and z and it was really powerful to see them be one of the strongest married couples i've ever met in my life on the back end of this thing and so it's setting up some of those boundaries on the front um and sex is going to look different intimacy might look different who knows up or down all over the place and And so be excited about dating this incredible woman again.

And by the way, thank you for being this kind of husband who cares, right? Yeah, appreciate that. Yeah. Most don't. They want to fix it. They want to get over it. Can we just move on from this thing? Do you know how expensive this EMDR stuff is?

They just over, over. Like, man. And you're trying to figure out the best way to sit with her. Good for you. Good for you. Good on you. Whew. She's still the woman you married, man. She still loves you and you still love her.

It's amazing. Good on you. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes, and if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it.

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work, we do this in social settings, we do this around our own families.

We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself,

where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy.

You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, we are back. Money and marriage, October 24th through 26th. There are just very, very few tickets left.

In fact, it may be sold out by the time this episode airs, but it's worth checking out. Two and a half days of teaching from me and my good friend, Rachel Cruz, and built-in time to practice what you're learning, how to get your finances straight, how to get your marriage straight. We talk about money, sex, we talk about everything, all of it. Kids, whatever you got going on in your world, we're going to figure it out. Lots of Q&A time. You'll get direct access to me and Rachel Cruz, an amazing date night experience tickets start at 799 bucks for the whole weekend which is a steal um and there's just a few left again so go pick them up go pick them up go to ramsay solutions.com

slash getaway all right let's go out to portland oregon and talk to phil Hey, Phillip, what's up, man? Hey, how you doing? Partying, dude. What are you up to? I'm just in the car outside my school right now. Excited to talk to you. Are you in school or are you teaching at a school? I'm in school right now. What are you studying? Psychology, actually.

That's a terrible thing to do with your life. You're going to end up like a, like a middling podcaster if you're not careful. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, we'll see. We'll see. All right. So what's up, man? Um, so, uh, I want to talk to, um, so I proposed to my girlfriend, um, about a week and a half ago. Um, and she said yes. Um, but I did this before talking to her parents and so she talked to her mom about it and her mom was happy and supportive and her mom talked to her dad and he was pretty salty according to my mom that I didn't talk with him and I was wondering how I should navigate the situation How old are you? I'm 21. How old are you? I'm 21 How old is she?

She's 18 turning 19 in two months Do you still live at home? Yeah, I do No, does she still live at home? Oh, sorry, yeah, she does Yep How long have y'all been together? We've been together about nine months

Dang, dude Tell me about this engagement man that's really young and really quick yeah yeah so we yeah when we met a while ago on uh tinder actually oh that's where all that's where all love starts yeah yep um and um, we got really, really close, um, after a couple of months per tender. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, we got close and, um, we've been together probably four or five days of the

week. She lives about 50 minutes away from my house and, um, we're always, we're, we're together a lot. Um, and, uh, I'll go over there. She'll come over to me. Um, and, uh, we're, we together a lot um and uh i'll go over there she'll come over to me um and uh we just work really well together she lets me she supports me during school i work a lot and i do a lot of school um and yeah we're really compatible and it's so what's the rush what's the rush man um we thought the next best step would to be to get married because all we've been talking about, um, being with each other for the rest of our lives, uh, starting to start in a life together. And we were just really wanted to, we've been talking about that for the last month or two. Um, and then we thought this would be the next best step so we can commit to each other and really build a root

in each other if you were my brother i would tell you to slow down yeah yeah okay um if you were the son of one of my good friends i would tell you to slow down okay okay that's not why you called you didn't call and say hey is it is it smart or not wise that I'm just turned 21 and I want to marry an 18-year-old slash 19-year-old out of her dad's house, out of her mom and dad's house. Yeah. But that's not why you called me. And here's the reason I'm pushing back on you wisdom-wise. Yeah. there is 1,000% chance, I have, you will get sideways or you will do something

that your future father-in-law goes, I wouldn't have done it like that. Okay. And what somebody who's old enough and wise enough to get married is old enough and wise enough to pick up the phone or to go in person to be like, hey, dude,

I should have called you. I was totally blue this. I'm sorry. Yeah. And I can imagine this feels super, super fast. Can we go to lunch? I want to be on the same page with you as we move forward.

I understand that your daughter is the single most precious and important thing in the history of your life ever. And I want to honor that man. Yeah. You see what i'm saying on this side of your 21 i'm in my mid-40s on the back side of this i have a 14 year old the thought of him getting married in four years makes my head i can't even wrap my head around it and he'll be legal if he wants to do that i can't stop him yeah but just know um on on the parent side of it it just feels like a lot yeah yeah and that's what i've been told by a lot by my parents um that yeah we're young um

the young part's fine there's just a maturity level i mean pick up the phone and call the man why haven't you done that yeah you're old enough to marry his daughter why aren't you old enough to call him and be like dude i should have called you i screwed that up my bad yeah yeah yeah why haven't you called her yeah i will do that i will call him you're not answering my question why haven't you yet are Are you scared of him? Um, yeah. Uh, yeah, I would say that.

Yeah. Yeah. Don't, um, yeah. I don't want to hear something. I don't want to hear. Bro,

you're about to get married. That's the rest of your life, homie. Yeah. Yeah. You're about to merge two families. Yeah. Yup.

Is anyone in your world telling you this is a great idea? Um, my mom, so they both are families. They, her parents really do like me and my parents really like her. So my, my parents,

um, are, are happy with it. Um, and her, her mom is happy with it. Her dad's still salty. I didn't tell him, but I did

see him yesterday, which is funny, but it was never brought up. The marriage, to talk about it, was never brought up. I bet if he brought it up, he would just spew fire, and he's trying to keep the peace

at an Easter function yeah yeah what I'll tell you the I hate to even say it like this because I feel silly but it's the only it's the most honest way I could say it yeah the right manly thing

to do is to call him okay and say I would like to do is to call him. Okay. And say, I would like to take you to dinner. And bro, you pay. All right. Yep. And pick somewhere nice and say, I want to marry your daughter.

I did this the wrong way. I screwed this up. And I want to control, I'll delete this thing. Okay. You got to see it from his eyes. He's about to get a new son. Yeah, yeah. And if you didn't even bother to call him to say,

hey, I want to take your barely old enough to make legal decisions on her own, barely old enough to sign a contract on her own daughter and marry her, and I didn't even bother to call you, come on, man. You know what I'm saying? It's just the wisdom and maturity. Yeah, 100%. How are you going to provide for y'all? Right now, I'm working 35 hours a week.

Awesome. Double that. Yeah, no, yeah. Double it. Yeah, okay. It's like Dumb and Dumber There's no jobs out here Unless you want us to work 40 hours a week 35, bro

Not gonna cut it 70 Yeah You're a newlywed 21-year-old Yep, yeah You keep saying yeah I don't think you get it, dude I don't think you get it

No, no Yeah, you're right No, yeah I'm in school right you're right. No, yeah. I'm in school right now. Also, yeah, I'm working, so I'm trying to juggle that. Do school and work. Yeah. I'll give you 10 hours.

So 60 hours a week plus school. When you get married, you're going to look at your sweet 18-year-old wife and go, I will see you in three years. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's you understanding the reality of the world you're stepping into. Yeah. Like,

like that. I, we have to have more time apart because I'm working and it's cool, bro. It's like, have you, have you sat down and even done a budget? Like,

like here's the math, like rent to cell phones, to car insurances, to, I mean, have you mapped all that out? Yeah. So we've talked about, like a like here's the math like rent yeah two cell phones two car insurances two i mean have you mapped all that out yeah so we've talked about we've talked about money we wanted to move out but we haven't because we're like we need more money of course um and you're you're so i will say we're i will say we're privileged uh that our parents uh do help us with a lot of stuff i know but you're about to be married.

All that cuts cut off. Yeah. And if it doesn't, you should be ashamed of yourself and you should cut it off. Yeah, yep, yep. Yeah. And yeah, we've sat down, tried to move out. We're like, all right, we need to work more,

save more money. And right now we're working on saving a bunch of money because she works 40 hours a week at a veterinarian office. So we're trying to save as much money as we can right now. She should work 40 hours a week at a vet clinic and then go to Walmart and throw boxes until 11 p.m. Or do a second drive Uber, whatever. I don't know what else there is to do. I mean, wherever is going on in y'all's world.

But, and by the way, I'm not talking about saving money for the thing, for the wedding, for the first apartment. No. I'm talking about two cell phone bills, two car insurances, renter's insurance, tuition, clothing, makeup, deodorant. Like, life stuff is just freaking expensive to exist these days. Yeah. And if you haven't written that stuff down, A, you're in no shape to get married. And B, you should do that for yourself.

You're 21 years old. You should know how much it costs you to live. And by the way, when I was 21, I didn't. So I'm lecturing my former self right now, okay? Okay. When I was 21, I didn't know what day it was either. But figure all that out, man, and you're going to get a number

and you're going to realize, oh, I have to work 70 hours a week to make this thing work. I have to work this many. I mean, she's got to work. I got to work. And by the way, she's going to get pregnant

and within nine months and then all of a sudden you're going to be like, oh boy, now we have a kid. So just think this thing through and to everybody listening this is not to do with age i started asking questions about why the rush and why he's getting married not because he's 21 and she's 18 going on 19 i asked because her his future father-in-law got, quote-unquote, salty.

And he didn't think to just pick up the phone and call. That's what maturity would do. That's what wisdom would do. If I find out my father-in-law was mad at me, I'd pick up the phone and call him. Hey, man, what's up? I'd just pick up the phone. Or next time I saw him in person, I'd be like, hey, let me talk about this thing. Because I try to be a grown-up, right?

And so if you don't know what to do about that call, man, I want you to pause before you decide to bring two families together through marriage. Because I want your marriage to be amazing. I want it to be the greatest adventure of your life. And I only want you to do it once. There's a lot there, my man.

Hey, thanks for the call, brother. Thanks for letting me pick at you a little bit. Best of luck to you, whatever you decide. If you do go through with it, holler at me. Let me know the date. Kelly will probably show up and have an amazing gift. She has a whole fund that she saves and does

things like that. And if you don't, if you decide to pause for a little bit or do like a four-year engagement or something, let me know how that goes too. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks, let's talk about hallow. All right, I say this all the time.

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Go right now and change your life. All right, we're back. Let's go to Indianapolis and talk to Samantha. Hey, Samantha, what's up? Hey, Dr. John, how are you? I'm rocking on, dude. What are you up to? You know, just have a lot on my mind, hence why the call.

Fantastic. What happened? I got into some deep trouble with my roommate, and I really need some advice. What's the trouble? I, about four months ago, got a new roommate. We have a 10-year age difference. He's 25.

I'm 35. Did you sleep with your roommate? I did. I did. Amazing. Why did you do that? I have. Amazing. Why did you do that? I have no idea. I'm dumb.

And it was a really, really poor decision. We were both getting out of relationships right when he moved in. And I think that there was an unspoken attraction. We would always have dinner, hang out. We just, for whatever reason, would spend hours after work talking. And I think that there was always a mutual attraction. Like a romance novel. And then one night, the fire was in the fireplace.

You're actually not really wrong because it got so green. It was raining outside. I was going to go on a trip and I couldn't go. Oh my gosh. You're really not that off because there was one night, not even a month into him moving in. We watched a movie together. We're being super flirtatious and his bathroom tub was getting fixed and he had to use my bathroom. And after the movie, we were being really flirtatious during the movie, like touching hands and flirting and blah, blah, blah.

And he goes to me, what time should I come in your room to use the bathroom? And I was like, I said something and I'm going to, it's going to sound really cringe right now, but I was like, you can come and use my bathroom anytime you want. And he was like, uh, he got really nervous. And he was like, wait, Samantha, what are we doing? Can we talk about the tension? And I was like, um, what tension? He was like, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Are we going to do something about it? Can we be adults and be casual and be essentially friends with benefits who live with each other? And I was like, um, this is weird.

We have a 10 year age gap. We both are getting out of, just got out of relationships. I don't know. And he was like, let's try it. I go along with it. We, hold on,

hold on, hold on. I was with you until you tried to sell me a, like a fresh box of dog cha-cha like and then i just went along with whatever you're in you're in so like what like what's the deal now so you slept with your roommate the whole thing's weird right the whole thing is really weird and everything has been on his terms. Like, everything has been, like, he will initiate things and, like, hang out and be like, let's, you know, hook up. But it's always been on his terms. Wait, wait, wait.

Why are you out? I don't understand that. I don't understand it either, and I feel really bad about it. And now he is not dating someone else but he's seeing someone else like they're not exclusive or anything and he just pulled the plug and that's fine but i felt like he got what he wanted and kind of tossed me aside because we're not we're not sleeping with each other anymore and i feel very used. Yes. Yes. You should feel used because you were.

And you used him. I didn't think of it that way. You absolutely used him. And vice versa. And there's no such thing. And people can, oh, my gosh, you're an idiot, Merrick. There's just not the 25 like the way the friends with it doesn't work it never works it always causes chaos either in the moment short

term or downstream always always and he was really clear on the front end. And you were like, okay. You're right. Like, and, like, did you get your heart broken? Did you fall for this kid? It's not that I fell for him. I mean, I'm not, and I fell for him. I mean, I, I'm not, and I, I lied to him and I think I lied to myself and said that I am okay with a casual fling and I'm not. Did you like this guy?

Yeah. I mean, I can't be intimate with someone if I don't like them and I never told him that. No, you told him the exact opposite of that. I did. Yeah. And I think your anger or frustration or heartbreak or whatever is misplaced. I don't think it's on him. I think it's on you.

Why? Because you were hoping to get something from this 25-year-old kid. And I didn't. And you didn't. And you've done this before maybe not in maybe not with the casual hookup but you have gone after somebody else before to try to fill a void and it didn't work fair or not fair fair yeah I I didn't think of it that. And I wanted to ask you if I should talk to him about how I felt or just kind of let it go.

He's going to look at you and say, I laid out the ground rules of this thing. You're way more experienced than me about everything in life. You have a decade on me. Not only you initiated this um when i just simply asked you if i could use your bathroom you turned it into some sort of heightened sexual interaction and i set the ground rules and you were like cool and i'm just following through the roadmap that i laid out and you see what i'm saying and anytime we try anytime we try to use divorce the act of sex from something connective it's i mean it just ends and people get hurt it just does

yeah and you i mean so you could talk to him i don't i don't know what i don't know what that's i don't know what telling me your feelings unless you're telling him I really like you and I want to be exclusive with you. And hey, we already moved in together. I mean, you know what I mean? What do you want to tell him? I think I wanted to tell him that I felt

like everything had been on his terms. I don't even know. What does that even mean? I don't even know what that means. It means that anytime a hookup was initiated, like, hey, let's hook up and have sex, whatever, it was always on his terms. And anytime I would try to even, after we had sex, after the fact, I'd be like, let's watch a movie or let's do this. He would automatically go to, I can't have sex tonight. I'm really stressed.

I have a big business meeting in the morning. I can't do this. And I would automatically be like, I'm not asking you to have sex. That's not about him. That's about you. In what way? If there was a power dynamic to where you found yourself trapped or caught or forced, then things are on their terms. If you agree to an employment arrangement where you go work for a boss and that boss says you will be here at 8 o'clock and you will leave at 5, then your workday is on their terms. Because there's a power differential there.

Yeah. This is just a guy who doesn't really care or was really clear at the outset. This is all this is going to be. And you were like, cool. Anytime. And then you want to turn it into something else as like an unfair relationship right and i guess i guess there's a there's another on terms with like i've been married to the same person for more than two decades now yeah yes it can be always on my terms if i start to take advantage of her so that's another place where um relationship could without a power differential right because

we are we're we're co-creating this marriage me and my wife and so yeah i could try to i could take advantage of her kindness of her what fill in the blank anything and it can always be on my terms but i think you're mad that you kept signing up for this thing and you kept going and you kept going and your guts knew it wasn't right and your guts knew it wasn't right. And your heart knew it wasn't right. And you kept doing it and you kept doing it and kept doing it. Yeah. I didn't think of it that way.

And that's probably something I should have thought of. And I wasn't honest with him or myself. I'm way more, I'm way more worried about your honesty with you. Yeah. I mean, I can be very outspoken and bold with what I want. And I am a lot of the times, but sometimes like this with Eric, I will be compliant and then be like, all right, well, maybe we'll see where it goes, and maybe something else will develop. And I won't say anything because I don't want to off the bat come across as wanting a relationship.

Why won't you just say what you want? I should have. Well, now it's too late, and I don't even think I would want to be with a 25 year old You were with a 25 year old Both physically and emotionally You were with him He didn't choose you And that broke your heart

Yeah You were with him You live in this Like I'm bold You're bold when it doesn't count You're bold at work and that doesn't it doesn't matter you can like you know i mean like you can be loud and like i get what i want at the office cool man like you know i'm saying where it counts is looking across from

somebody and saying here's all i am, do you love me? And when it counts, you get real quiet and say, I'll just take whatever because that's all I think I'm worth. Ooh. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of what happened with my last relationship. I bet you could go look at a pattern because somewhere along the way, you got a message that when it comes to

vulnerability you better freaking not show any when it comes to connection just take what you can get because that's about all you're worth and i'm telling you you're worth more than that thank you yeah i mean i've definitely dived into this and i i know i know but you keep you can dive in all you want but you keep doing it. Yeah, I do, for sure. I mean, that's literally what happened in my last relationship, and it got to a point where I had enough, and I finally walked away. But it took me a while to get there, a long time, longer than it should have. Yes, and I think you're there, too. If you were my friend, like just a buddy of mine i would say you got it's you got to move out

or if he's really yes unless you want to just see a walking example about how you let yourself down as he parades girlfriends in and out of there as you spent like it's like a real-life social media account. Why would you do that to yourself? I mean, outside of this, we have opposite schedules, and he's not

really home a lot, and I'm not, so it's a really good... This is not a math problem. This is a Samantha's heart challenge. Yeah. Like I'm saying this, not in a flippant,

like stitch on a pillow kind of way. I'm saying this, like if you were standing here, I would ask you, is this okay? And hopefully you would say yes. And I'd put both my hands on the side of your face and I'd look you in the eyes and I'd tell you,

you're worth so much more than this. So he didn't do anything wrong. It's pretty much... No, I didn't say that. If he was 25 years old, I would tell him, who does he think he is? But he's not on the phone with me right now. And what you try to do, this is your game,

is you toggle back and forth so hard so that you don't have to sit with any discomfort. Of course he has culpability and responsibility in this. I'm not blaming him. I'm not blaming you for everything.

I'm saying you started it. You're 10 years older than he is. You've got more experience than he is. You invited it. And then when it comes down he is. You've got more experience than he is. You invited it. And then when it comes down to like the brass tacks of consent, you went along with it every single time. And I didn't speak up for myself. That's what I'm saying. You're worth more than this. You're worth more than flirty hookups with a 25-year-old kid who happens to be your roommate. You're worth more than flexing around the office, but just accepting relationships.

It should be the opposite way around. Yeah, I'm glad that I called in and called you because I didn't even think of it like that. I kind of was looking at it from the opposite end and resenting him, but not even looking at what I was allowing. And by the way, if you get to where you're resenting the person that you're sharing a living space with, have him leave or you leave. Why would you live like that? Yeah. Like, listen, when you walk out of the office, the office is hard. And I'm flipping about it, right?

Like, we fight hard here at my office a lot. And it gets loud and people disagree and lots of opinions and egos, okay? And I also love these people too. And we disagree. But here's the thing. My home has to be the place of peace. It has to be the one place I drop my shoulders and I can go, I've got there. And I think much of the mental health challenges in the country right now are our homes are as electric and not safe and not peaceful as our workplace, as the subway, as the traffic jam, as the news feeds coming in our old phones.

And our whole worlds are electric. Yeah. And our homes have to be a place where we walk in and go, but I'm here now and now I'm safe and so dude if you resent this kid make a hard call and move on with your life dude it's not worth the roommate it's not worth the shared rent your peace is not what's the price of peace in your house you're right

I I didn't think of it that way I was just like oh we, we have opposite schedules. No, dude, that guy will haunt you. Because he'll just be a visual representation of another time Sam didn't lean into her true value, her true worth. And didn't vocalize what I wanted.

Right. And wouldn't vocalize what i won't accept and if i if i go along with this if i go along with it if i go along with it maybe see how you're trying to reverse engineer you're trying to work backwards to vulnerability yeah maybe if i do some things if I'm a part of some things, an unbalanced relationship where someone's clearly taking advantage of me, if I go this way, maybe then I'll get that relationship that I want. And that's just not the path. No. And you're right. It's exactly what I was thinking. And I was like, I never just want to... Okay. So for me, a lot of it is like, things will naturally happen sometimes. In relationships and jobs, sometimes the job will come or the relationship will come when you least expect it. I didn't want to go into it being like, this is exactly what it needs to be. And this is what I want. And I just was like, that's too intense.

So I'm like, let's just see where it goes and let things naturally occur and progress. So that's where I think my head was at. I once had a buddy who was the dean of a business college. And he was meeting with me and my staff. I'd invite him to come talk to our staff. And he said something that changed my life. He said, we spend so much time

planning, setting value statements, strategic plans, five-year goals, board reports, finance reports, quarterly reports for our jobs. And he looked at that group and he said, and none of it matters. And then we go home to our kids, our wives, our husbands, our boyfriends, our girlfriends, and we just hope that happens, or as you put it, to see where it goes. And if you're not intentional about your values, if you're not intentional about what matters

to you, if you're not intentional about where you want to go, and you label yourself as too intense, I reject that. You're not too intense. You're not intentional enough. Where it's going to always go is where it's always gone. And for you, that's heartbreak. Yeah, it has. And so at least give your heart as much respect as you give your dumb job, as you gave grad school, as you gave undergrad, that level of intentionality. I'm not like that with my career. I'm like booming with my career. I know you are. I know you are.

Because somewhere along the way, somebody told you that's the path to value. You'll finally be worth something if you get that plaque on the wall. And what sucks for you is you got that plaque, a bunch. You keep getting another one and another one and another one and another one. And it never fills that gap. Why? Because wherever you go, you go with you. And you, Sam, don't think you have value. You don't think you're worth being loved. You don't think you're worth being loved. You don't think you're worth saying out loud, this is what I want and this is what I need. And I'm not going to go along with some 25-year-old who just wants to hook up.

I'm not. And I'm going to be all into this flirty, like, culture. I'm going to get all close and be like, you know, like, yeah. Because I don't have the courage here, like I do at my, because I don't have the courage here, like I do at my office, I don't have the courage here to say, this is what I believe. This is what I'm worth.

And when it comes to intimacy, when it comes to romance, when it comes to building something down the line in the future with somebody, I'm going to draw boundaries and I'm going to have my standards. If no one's ever told you you're worth that, Sam, I'm sorry. It breaks my heart for you.

But you are. You're worth every bit of that and more. But don't go home to a place that you resent. Don't go home to a person you resent. Make your house a place of peace so that you can begin to anchor in and say, what do I believe? What do I value? Who am I going to be? And then go be that person. And who cares what some 25 year old, 35 year old, 45 year old person thinks.

You're worth all that. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we're back. Kelly, what do we got?

What did I do wrong on the internet this time? All right, here we go. If you're an adult, your parents don't get a vote about your life choices or values unless you give it to them. If you're an adult, your parents don't get a vote about your life choices or values unless you give it to them. If you're an adult, your kids don't get a vote about your life choices or values unless you give it to them. Your boss, your friends, your neighbors, and random people on social media don't get a vote either. Stop outsourcing your life to other people who are trying to meet their own needs by controlling yours.

Felt like that fit with today's calls. Kind of. A little bit. I think like three or four things happened to me at once. That was a note to myself. Like, stop. Like there was a family member that said something about holidays and one of my kids.

Anyway. You have to stop outsourcing your life. The people in your world only get a vote if you give it to them. Unless you owe a bunch of money and your boss will tell you, you will be here tomorrow to work. And the bank says you will pay me at the end of the month

or I'm going to take your car or your house. Other than that, people don't get a vote. And it's so strange when you outline it that way, I find all the relationships in my life are much smoother that way. Or I guess the other ones have just gone away. I guess they've been like, screw that guy, but I don't know. You were about to say something, Kelly. I was just wondering if one of those was like me telling you to be on time or something. You were like, you don't get a vote. No, you definitely get a vote. When it comes to that. Yeah, nobody

gets a vote except for Kelly. But sometimes I feel like my vote is vetoed. No, it's just expanded. Or set aside for a different time. Okay, let's think this through though. When they asked me, like they brought me to room,

they're like, hey, James is gonna, is gonna quit. James Childs, the quitter. That's what we call him around here. He didn't quit

the company, just you. Just me. Yeah, when he quit me, when he's like, I'm gonna go for the sure bet. The,

the big huge, yeah. I heard a comedian one time say, like, rooting for the Yankees is like going to vegas and cheering for the house that's what james did he's like went to vegas and he's like i'm betting on the casino thanks james but they came to me and said hey um we have our eyes on kelly to for this job

can you work can you all build something for the next 15 years together? And so I submitted to that vote. Like I said, I'm saying yes, I'm in on that. But I gave that vote, right? Right. And then I just don't listen to it all the time. Sometimes it's like, thanks for your input. But I'm going to go do this other thing anyway. Everybody, thank you all so much for listening to today's show.

I'm so grateful that you joined us. Be kind, kind, kind to each other. And if you just have a quick sticky note experiment or a sticky note adventure today, pull out a sticky note and just write down four or five things. I'm worth this. I'm worth this.

I'm worth being treated right. I'm worth this. I'm worth this. I'm worth being treated right. I'm worth kindness. I'm worth a full night's sleep. I'm worth love. I'm worth, what are you worth? What are you worth? Just do that quick exercise. You're worth that.

See you soon.