The Dr. John Delony Show - Will Our Sex Life Be Better After We Get Married?

Episode Date: March 10, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A man wondering if intimacy with his fiancé will improve when they get married - A woman who just discovered her husband’s been lying since day one - Delony’s thoughts on how to keep growing closer to your spouse In this episode John talks about two books. You can find "The Five Love Languages" here and "Come As You Are" here. Lyrics of the Day: "Purple Rain" - Prince Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney show. Even though we are super attracted to each other and we are intimate, you know, I don't know the right way, I guess, to get to that next step. I think our culture is obsessed. We're obsessed with intimacy equals intercourse. And I just reject that. I don't think that's accurate. What up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. So grateful that you're with us. We're all going to get learned up together today. If you want to be on the show, greatest mental health and marriage podcast ever.

Give me a buzz 1-844-693-3291. It's totally free. And that's about what the advice is worth, but Hey, we'll do it together. Or you go to johndeloney.com slash ask A S K. And don't forget to hit the subscribe button or the, I love you button or whatever buttons that you don't suck. But what are the buttons? What are they? What are they? My wife tells me I was born in the wrong century. Well, it depends on what they're listening to.

That's what I thought. Yeah. Like, share. Hit the I love you button. Whatever that means in the hive mind, in the internets, hit that button. And don't hit the I don't like you button because I'm sensitive. All right. Let's go to Mike in Pittsburgh.

Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, what's up, dude? Hey, Dr. John, massive fan of yours. Your book, Redefining Anxiety, changed my life. So thank you so much. I appreciate that, man. I got a new follow-up on anxiety coming out, man. I'm excited to get in your hands. That'd be great.

Oh, awesome. What's up, dude? Great. Yeah, so I just recently got engaged. Um, we moved into an apartment together. Um, we've always had a really great relationship. Um, I love her so much, you know, but it's always felt like we're just past that best friend threshold in some ways. Um, even though we are super attracted to each other and we are intimate,

I don't know the right way, I guess, to get to that next step. I'm not too... So, if we were just hanging out, just you and me, I just met you and we're hanging out, it sounds like a guy who

really wants her to like him, but she doesn't. But I don't think that's the case here. So give me some more clarity here. Yeah, there's more to it. She's always, I guess, had trouble opening up physically. I think she has a lot of anxiety about it. And it's always limited our intimacy beyond a certain point. It's been like five years that way.

And then to throw another variable into all of it, you know, I've become a lot more religious. And I found God, accepted Jesus. And, you know, I know I shouldn't have sex before marriage anyway. So I'm really honestly fine on waiting on that, but I don't know how to know that this will change once we get married, because that's sort of what she's assured me on. I just want to respect her, you know, respect my religion. And I don't know how to achieve all of those things moving forward, I guess. I think our culture is obsessed. Psychopathologically, we're obsessed with, and this is religious and non-religious, intimacy equals intercourse. And I just reject that. I

don't think that's accurate. I think everybody, intimacy means something different to everybody. And we can draw some big generalized buckets here. But with the way you just described it, what I'm hearing is a woman who is struggling with trust and is struggling with feeling safe. And my guess is her challenges with intimacy are not just physical. She probably didn't tell you everything that's going on. Maybe even keep secrets from you or just says,

ah, it's okay. Am I on to something or no? I think you are. I mean, and I think I'm to blame too. When I try to talk about it, sometimes I think I get a little frustrated and then I can see her withdraw. Just shuts down.

Yeah, yeah. So anytime somebody says they've got anxiety about a thing, anxiety is not the issue there. What the issue is is that your body has detected something that's not safe. Stephen Port just calls it neuroception. Your body is scanning the environment. It has found something that's not safe for any number of reasons. You remind her of an old boyfriend. You remind her of somebody that hurt her. You remind her you're the picture of the guy

that's pushing her past her boundaries for five freaking years and she's tired of it, but she also loves you. Also doesn't have any self-worth. Whatever the story may be, it could be a thousand different stories. And so I less want to figure out, I mean, this is a broad generalized statement here. Okay. And so be nice to me on the internet. I'm painting with a broad brush here. I'm finding in more and more couples that I talk to more and more men and women that I talk to individually. For some, particularly men, intimacy is about sex. It's about connectivity. It's about desire and fantasy. And when you feel deeply desired enough that somebody is revealing themselves to you, then you can tell them about the things that scare you and the things that hurt you

and the things that you dream about. Like, I want to live in this kind of house. I want to have this kind of job someday. And again, broad general brush, it works opposite for women. I need to know what you're thinking. I need to know you're with me. I need you to hear me. I need you to know that we're on the same page. And that is the gateway to intimacy to my body. Does that make sense? Yeah. And then when you don't have that people go to war because you're both using the word intimacy You're both using the words. We just want to get closer You're both using the words love and they look like completely different things to each other

And then one of you gets mad one of you shuts down And then you end up getting engaged because that's going to solve it and then you end up You see what i'm saying? You end up in this dance and that's when you get four or five or six or seven years later, one of you is really frustrated. One of you is completely shut down. One of you has gone back to old roles and one of you starts having a conversation with somebody at work and they light you up for the first time in a long time. Yeah. I think you've a hundred percent nailed it there. Um, you know, and, and I think, you know, from her perspective, it probably is that's shut down and that for me i'm i'm

just completely completely frustrated you know yeah yeah um so she's not here and so i don't want to spend a lot of time digging into what she's thinking and why she's thinking it my concern is that you a don't feel like her lover. You feel like her best friend. You have the safety part down, but you don't have the romance part down. And for you, this is about a series of actions. It's a series of steps she needs to do, things she needs to do to show herself.

And you're starting to be concerned about down the road. And I don't even know what down the road is. We don't have to go into it. But are you wondering, is she going to be concerned about down the road and what i don't even know what down the road is we don't have to go into it but is that are you like wondering like is she gonna be wild she gonna like do all the crazy things i've got in my head and all things i've seen on tv like or is it just boring or like what are you worried about in the future well i i want to know i guess that we can have a normal, intimate relationship that does include sex one day. Because she's just so closed up. You know, it doesn't have to be wild. It doesn't have to be like that, I guess.

I just, I want some assurance somehow that it will happen. And then she assures me all the time that it will and you know that she's not holding back for any religious reason or any other reason it's just that you know she's never really done that with anyone you know so it's it's just a really odd situation i guess it's not odd at all there's that's a young woman who's who's tired of being pressured so she shuts down. I see. And you have to decide if pressure, pressure, pressure, pressure, pressure, slowly wearing somebody down, if that's how you want to come into connection with somebody. I do not want that for my life. Yeah, absolutely not. And also, are you able to find connection and intimacy in a much broader picture?

In the way she thinks about you and helps out, in the way she reaches out and says, how can I love you better? And you reach out, right? It's so much more than just intercourse, man. We're so obsessed with it. Intercourse is awesome, but it's not the end-all be-all of intimacy, right? It's about both. And I don't want to just, but you're the only one on the phone, right?

So if y'all are both here, I'd be having a conversation with both of you. So I don't want to sound like I'm just kicking you while you're down, but I don't think, I don't see this changing even after you get married. That's not some magic switch because you have not created a context where she feels safe opening up to you. And I'm not just talking about sexually. I'm talking about all the way across the board.

Okay. And so if I'm you, a couple of things I would do. Number one, I would start and go first and say, I'm looking back over five years and I realized I've created a world where I'm on offense all the time and you're on defense all the time. I've created a world where for whatever reason, my presence, the things that I have identified that bring me connectivity, intimacy, those things shut you down. They scare you.

And I think as a couple, we got to call that out before we get married. And I don't feel comfortable moving into a long-term relationship when you don't feel safe with me. And I don't feel comfortable moving into a relationship long-term where I don't know how to make you feel safe. And again, it's not just,

you got to feel safe so that you can have sex. That's not, sex is off the table for me right now. This is a much bigger deal, right? um I would recommend reading both of you reading come as you are by emily nagatsuki And both of you reading the five love languages now the five love languages doesn't have a lot of science or anything by behind it that I know of maybe it does but More it gives you a a it gives you a framework I think there's way more than five ways to communicate, but it gives you a framework for having the same discussion instead of talking past each other. Does that make sense? Y'all live together? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. We're in an apartment together. Um, and usually that accelerates. A couple in your situation, usually if they move in together, it makes everything heightened and on fire because you thought that by moving in together, I would feel more connected and less lonely, It's just gotten worse, but I'm willing to do the things you said because, I mean, I don't even like the way that I feel like I am in these situations, if that makes sense. Yeah. I think the more that you, and again, dude, I'm saying this with all just due respect and love, okay? The more you view her body as something that's going to fix you or the more that

if she would just do these things, then you would fill in the blank. The more you're putting pressure, you're putting weight on her that she simply can't carry. No person can carry that. There's no such thing as I complete you. That whole thing was a,

that was just a Tom Cruise movie. Right. Right. And here's the, here's the paradox. You can't do life by yourself either. And so I've got to have

somebody with me so that I can repel off the edge. Not, um, I've got to have somebody with me or I can't breathe.

See what I'm saying? And I know it gets all messy and esoteric. Have you all gone to couples counseling yet? No, we haven't. Okay. I can't think of anybody I've talked to today that needs to go more than you guys do. And the conversation is not how to be more sexually connected or how to deal with intimacy.

That's not it at all. I think you go first and you say, I need to learn how to make my wife feel safe around me. Because for the last five years, I have not done a good job. She knows I love her. She knows I think she go first and you say I need to learn how to make my wife feel safe around me because for the last Five years I have not done a good job. She knows I love her She knows I think she's beautiful. I that she's the she's the greatest in the world But she doesn't her body doesn't feel safe around me and I don't know what it is But I want to I want to heal that I want to be better about that And that's the language I would take into it Okay, now that that helps a lot. I lot. I never thought of framing it that way.

Anytime she says I'm feeling anxious about, just replace that word anxious with your body's trying to tell you you're not safe. And, by the way, sometimes your body's lie. Sometimes they don't tell the truth. Sometimes she doesn't feel safe around you because of something somebody else did a long time ago. Right. Right? But at least let's go there.

Why is her body saying, this guy's not safe. We can't trust this guy. Why is her body saying, I got to shut down. I got to hide. I got to shut down. I got to hide.

Why? Why is that? And what part of you is bringing that on? What part of you is just pouring gasoline on that fire? What part of that is completely and totally you, right? And it may be nothing to do with you, but y'all are in this thing together, okay? So get those two books,

Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski. It's the best book on sex I've read and it gives couples common language. It's actually written for women, but I think it's a great book for men to read too. It's not a faith-based book or anything like that, but it's outstanding. And the Five Love Languages book will just give you all a common set of words to use together that can maybe begin to give you all a path. And then you need to go call a marriage counselor. We're seeking safety here, my brother. Thank you for being open, man. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by

BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families.

We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween

parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist

and you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney. All right, let's go to Lisa in Missoula.

What's up, Lisa? Hi. What's happening? Hi, not much. Good morning. Good morning to you. Is the world spinning in your area? Yeah, it seems to be.

Seems to be good over here. Why do y'all keep letting all those balloons go over there? What are you doing? I played no part in any of it. Sure. Sure. Lisa. Hey, uh, before you continue your question with Lisa, I've, you don't see this and I want to make sure that y'all have this discussion on Lisa's email. She signed off as proud dog mom and continue. Oh, and that was on purpose and I'm sorry. Hey, hey listen we all need to live in our own little delusions and if this is the one for you then so be it and thank you for you know he

he looks really cute in a sweater that's all i'm gonna say uh kelly just carries like a small vial of gas in her purse. And so when she sees any small flame, she's like, ooh, and then she just dumps gasoline on it just to watch things burn. So, listen. I love her for it. Are you calling about being a dog mom? Please say yes.

No, no, he's right. Because that makes you crazy. Okay, so what do you want to talk about? What's up? Yeah, well, at the end of the day, the question is, and just in acknowledging how anxiety changes, I'm wanting some really practical tips on how I can get this under control. And then secondary to that, because I emailed in and my question kind of changed after we had scheduled this, but learning to trust my spouse, how to relearn how to trust him

when I feel like with all this anxiety, I can't even trust myself anymore. What do you do? Well, there's a backstory and I prepped some notes. Okay, go for it. I'll run through it quickly, okay? So backstory, depending on how I interpret the questions, I'm a seven, two, and eight on the ASIS exam.

I hear that. I see that. But I also acknowledge that I turned it around. I did the work. Life is good. I'm living the quote unquote middle class American dream. I have a great dog, great job, great house, right? I've always struggled with anxiety. Well, I say always. I didn't know I was struggling with anxiety until maybe three years ago. Okay, can I pause you right here? Can I pause you right here? Yeah, yeah. If you were with me right now,

I would say ask you if I had permission to give you a hug. And what I would do is not in a weird, creepy way, but I would want to give you a hug for like 15 or 20 seconds. Past where it got awkward to where your shoulders would finally drop for a second. You just rattled off

a really common response to childhood trauma, which is I will outachieve this thing. I'll outrun it with my house size square footage and I'll outrun it with my salary. I'll run it with my, how good looking my husband is. I'll outrun it with the car that I drive and it will catch you and it will bury you. Right? Yeah, it feels right. And I think that's exactly what's happened. Well, you said, here's the big tell for me

is your anxiety keeps moving on you. Yeah. And it's, some people have a phobia about a particular room in their house because that's where their child passed away. Like they can't go in that room. Their body is identified. They put a GPS pin in that room. This room's not safe. That's not what your body's doing. Your body has identified

the world is unsafe. And as soon as you get a grasp on something, because you're so strong, you're out running a seven or eight on the aces. You're so strong. You're able to grab hold of these things and wrestle it to the ground. And kind of like a like a balloon animal it squirts out somewhere else and something else it jumps on something else and it's because you're not healing from the center and i'm gonna even push you further and say i've come to believe with all the reviews of the literature and all of the swan diving into all the neurochemicals and all that all the stuff that only a few of us nerds really care about at the end of the day healing from anxiety teaching your body that you're safe is about connection in a relationship

and traumatized people that's the demon of trauma is it makes relationships the the the monster and so your body identifies relationships as something i can't get into and if you don't have relationships you can't breathe yeah and so then it makes everything it spins your alarms and says we can't breathe we can't breathe and you're like oh i'm gonna reach out to my husband because i love him and then your body's like no and then like a good, he goes and does something stupid or a whole bunch of things stupid or in a weird gross dance, he starved for connection too. And he's got a woman that he loves who's sleeping next to him and he can feel the nuclear reactor in her chest. And he starts to think, well, maybe it's me. And then somebody somewhere lights him up. It makes him feel a little bit more alive.

Am I onto something? Tell me I'm right or wrong. You're heading in the right direction, but I got a hard left turn for you. Okay, bring it. Yeah. So I've been with my husband for five years total, two and a half of those married. Intimacy at the beginning was really great. It did taper off pretty early.

Why? Why? intimacy at the beginning was really great. Um, it did taper off pretty early. Um, and why, why, why, why, why, why? Well, well, I'll, I'll get to there because I think I finally figured it out. Um, it's been a, an issue ongoing, um, a lot of fights and I've been unfortunately growing some resentment about it. Um, while we were still dating, he had a bit of a, a text affair, if you will, an emotional affair, um, that I, I was able to heal from and forgive him. And, and we moved on. A bit of one word. It was, yeah, it was a whole thing. Um, okay. So you're speaking trauma language.

I'm gonna call it out every time I hear it. He didn't have a bit of an affair. He cheated on you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And you are great at peacekeeping and you are great at minimizing. Yep. Yep. Yep. No, thank you. All right. And then, so you went through with marriage, you forgave him, you decided we're going to, we're going to make this, make a run at this thing. And then, yep. And then a week ago today i uncovered a secondary flirtation an affair um that he swears up and down was short-lived nothing

physical happened and um during this confrontation he then proceeded to admit to me that for the entirety that i have known him and for as long as he can remember, he's had a porn addiction. And he works on the road and, you know, he's gone three nights a week and he's been struggling with that. And I'm just, I feel like maybe that's why intimacy is failing, but he's also been lying to me the entire time I've known him. And I'm, I don't even know how to like close my dialogue for the backstory because I just, I'm, I'm at known him. And I don't even know how to close my dialogue for the backstory because I'm at such a loss.

I'm bamboozled. Yeah. Yeah. So there's no surprise that you're anxious because your body's been trying to get your attention for a long time. That it sensed something was not right at home. And on top of as much trauma as you've experienced, you learned at an early age,

you need to take those feelings and bury them in the backyard because they just get you hurt. We've got things to solve. We've got things to achieve. We've got things to crush and kill and drag home. We don't have time for this digging into what's making me feel uncomfortable. Right. And so good for you. I don't have time for this digging into what's making me feel uncomfortable. Right? And so good for you.

You learned how to move on, right? And not good for you. Once again, the person who's at the bottom is you. Here's what's so disorienting, man, and it breaks my heart for you. You've built your entire identity on top of this trauma, not from a place of healing, but from a place of accomplishment and achievement. And I can do all things. Lisa will take control.

And I can't control this. And so now you've lost trust in Lisa. How did I miss this? I've been prepped for this. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. Can I just tell this? I've been prepped for this. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. Can I just tell you, I'm sorry. Thanks. How did your conversation end? Um, well, and that's where it gets weird again. Um, it's been going fine now. I've, I've listened to a lot of your show, um, probably almost every episode.

And I, I re-listened to the ones I need to hear again and I read and I do the things and I know I either have to be all in or all out. And I do really love this guy. And so I've chosen to be all in. Um, and I, it's, it seems good now and I, but it's not, and I can't keep pretending. Let me tell you where I failed you, okay? Yeah. I should add a caveat. You got to be all in or you got to be all out. But sometimes when the wound is deep, when the wound hurts,

when there's been years of systemic lying and covering up and multiple affairs, sometimes I can't be all in right now. And I should have added that a long time ago, and I'm sorry. For the first time in your life, you've got to find a place where you feel safe enough to say what you actually think and what you're actually feeling. I'm pissed. You should be. Sorry. Say it. Say it. Clark Ramrod, say it. I am so freaking

pissed. Say it. Keep going. I want to punch him in the face. I mean, that's not a solution, but I do. I mean, I'm considering it. Keep going. There's got to be something better out there, right? Not something, but better energy, better existence. And why? What was so wrong with me that this had to happen again? There it is. Listen to me very, very carefully.

Your husband's dealing with demons that have nothing to do with you. And it would actually, in your mind, be easier if this was about you because then you could have something to fix. Your husband's lying to you because something's wrong with him. Your husband's cheating on you because he's wrestling with his own issues. And maybe I just, just for full honesty, and it may be that he has been with you and he can't figure out a way to connect with you. Okay. In my estimation that doesn't give license for what's happening but it might provide a context okay it's not an excuse but it might say like i'm trying and it didn't work out and

instead of having the courage to say this isn't a good relationship for me he went ahead and married you and instead of being honest with you and saying hey i want to work through this thing together he lied to you and instead of saying i feel i don't like who I'm becoming in this relationship. He went and found somebody else that says, well, I like you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. This isn't you.

What do I do? Set that thing down. You tell me. I don't know. That's why I called you. I don't know. That's why I called you. I don't know. I'm at a loss. Do you want to be married to him?

Yeah, he's dumb, but I really like him. That's not dumb. Don't apologize for that. Do you need a break? Well, that's the confusing part is I want nothing more but to be around him right now is that reality or is that your trauma i have no idea that's that's confusing i i i don't know do you have sexual abuse in your past none that i can remember okay well and i was listening to one of your shows and I started dating, quote unquote, at 14.

And my first boyfriend was 18. And according to you, that's not healthy. So maybe. Probably not great. Probably not great. Probably not great. Did somebody leave when you're a kid yeah so we talk a lot about it and i don't exactly i don't know who if i've mentioned on this show surely i have we all know about fight or flight

response we all know about fight or flight or freeze response a fourth uncommon one that we don't talk about a lot is fawn fight flight or freeze or fawn where i'm gonna nuzzle up and become extra lovable to the person who's hurting me because maybe that'll keep them from hurting me again and i'm asking you is that what you're doing are you so terrified in your at the cellular level that he's going to leave if you take a break? That you can't imagine a world where somebody else leaves. And so you're going to continue to get cheated on, continue to get lied to. You're going to continue to wade into his storms because the alternative is you might end up by yourself. And it's not, I can't do that again.

Possibly. Possibly. Possibly. I don't want you to be mad at yourself for loving him. You're not, there's nothing wrong with you. You're not broken. It's your husband. And I don't want you to like,

man, anybody's like, Oh, you should just leave him. Shut up. Nobody, the only person who can answer that question is you. But I want to be honest about,

sometimes you got to, you got to take a break from sparring session because you're hurt. Yeah. What does regaining trust look like for you? Like if you snapped your fingers and said, this is how I'm going to start trusting this guy again, what would that look like? Where I don't ask him every morning, um, if he looked at anything overnight or question

him when he interacts with women at work. That's going to be a long, long time. Yeah. And I'll tell you right now, I want you to keep asking that question because you're going to be tempted to stop asking that question because you don't want to make him feel uncomfortable anymore. You don't want to hassle him or nag him. And you're going to take your feelings once again and shove them so far down that your

body can't breathe the difference here is i want you to call it out i'm going to ask you every single day for the next three months then we'll revisit it but the asking's one part what if he just lies because he's been doing it for so long that's where i was about to say you have to have the if then statement if you lie to me again i'm out yeah yeah if you text another woman that you're not married to that's not me i'm out yeah i don't personally i don't believe him that he hasn't been with somebody yeah and that's just my default setting. In that kind of situation, multiple times over multiple years,

especially knowing I've got a wife who's particularly sensitive to this particular issue, you got to prove to me otherwise. I'm just going with, if it smells like a fire, it's probably fire. Yeah.

What else does he not tell you the truth about and don't say nothing because I won't believe you I have I've been questioning that same thing I mean when he tells me he loves me or he likes me or he is sexually attracted to me it all feels like lies now yeah and that's a weird thing

there's some really remarkable research in writing. Probably the most eloquent writer on this is Esther Perel. And what got her down the rabbit hole that she ended up becoming like one of the most important voices in the world on was she kept meeting with clients who had really extraordinary marriages and then someone would go cheat. And it wasn't about sexual attraction and it wasn't about financial attraction and it wasn't about, they didn't have the same values

and they had just helped somebody's, they just sat together while one of their parents had died of cancer. Like they'd been through hell and back together. They were a good marriage. And ultimately that's where I take that. She's the one who gave me that idea that I think is so profound.

And I continue to see it over and over and over again once she illuminated it, which is most of the time people cheat. Most of the time people go seeking stimulation somewhere else from somebody else, whether it's texting, whether it's somebody's only fan site, whether it's pornography, whether it's actually meeting somebody and creating new relationship, whether it's just a one night hookup, it's because they don't like who they've become in their relationship. Yeah. And so I think the challenge here might be you deciding,

this is who I want to be married to and giving him a sense of, these are the values. This is the person that I want to be married to. Somebody who's got enough courage to go deal with this crap with a counselor. Somebody who goes to a Celebrate Recovery group or somebody who meets with a group of men every week to hold each other accountable. Somebody who goes nine months in our house with no internet.

Someone who doesn't have a cell phone, whatever that looks like. Yeah. And I want you to stop apologizing for wanting some thresholds of trust in your marriage and in your home because you're not the one that took them out. I just feel like

maybe I'm overreacting you're not maybe it was you're not the text thing and even if it was that's the trauma talking

yeah but I struggled to even acknowledge like what happened as a kid as being trauma right

like it just it happened and it was so out of my control like whatever whatever, moving on. And listen, I've done a terrible job also on my show over the course talking about post-traumatic growth. People become incredibly strong and incredibly connected and become incredible leaders and have incredible families following trauma. Post-traumatic growth is a very, very real thing. So I don't want to minimize it.

You're not broken forever. I got to look at, I got to look at the epidemiological data, right? You're more likely to have X and Y and Z growing up. That's just a fact. That just is. And when I look around my community, most everybody I see experienced some pretty hard stuff growing up on a big scale or on a little scale.

And man, there's some pretty amazing people who've come from some pretty amazing places and I count you as one of them. I would love to see you talk to a counselor, not to even heal from childhood trauma. I'd love to see you meet with a counselor to begin to listen to Lisa's voice for the first time in your whole life. Would you do that?

Yeah, yeah. To learn how to create boundaries and not apologize for them? Yeah. I want you to pick up Nidra Toweb, T-A-W-E-B. Her book is called Find Boundaries, Find Peace, I think is the title. I just read it recently. It is outstanding. Outstanding.

But I think it's a book worthy of you reading it, okay? Okay. I also want you to hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of Own Your Past, Change Your Future. And this is my gift to you. And I want you to hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of own your past change your future and um This is my gift to you And I want you to read that as well, but I want you to to before the day's over I want you to call a counselor

Not because something's wrong with you, but because you got some new skills to learn And the new skills to learn are Trusting lisa's body for the first time ever Learning to identify when your body's telling you you're not safe or you're disconnected, which it's been trying to get your attention for a long time. That's anxiety. And three, how to practice and set and implement boundaries and then hold them in your new marriage because your marriage is new now. What was is over. Now you and your husband

get to build something completely new and y'all got to figure out what that's going to look like He needs to go see somebody too Because he's struggling with feeling dead inside And that's not on you. That's on him He's gonna have to do that work to decide why he keeps self-sabotaging and why he's become so unhappy with himself in his role as your husband That's his journey to do and y'all gonna end up in marriage counseling, which would be fantastic. But you're right to be upset and you're right to be heartbroken. You're right to want to start swinging. All those feelings are right. You just got that scary, scary, terrifying question. What am I going to do now?

And I'll walk with you every step of the way. And I'm happy to talk to him too, if he wants to give me a shout. Thanks for your bravery. We'll be right back. All right, we're back. So we had a call scheduled that was coming in from a firefighter who I actually talked to before. He has been through hell and back and he was going to be brave and be on the show.

And then he got called to a fire. And I guess saving his neighborhood and keeping people safe is more important than my, the greatest podcast ever. What's up with first responders these days, picking service and help over getting famous. I'm just kidding. I don't think anybody's getting famous on the show. But, so, I've got a new segment. It's called, Oh, Man, I Made People Mad on the Internets Again. Does that sound good? I think that sounds great, and we should have plenty of things to talk about. I'm finding out. That's one of my spiritual gifts.

That's one of my love language. It's the sixth secret love language, making people mad on the internets. Here's what I posted. Guys, I'm... So much drama. So internets. Here's what I posted. Guys, I'm so much drama, so much drama. Here's what I wrote. One time my wife and I went to see a romantic comedy movie. The movie was tragic, funny, and charming, about as good as the genre can be. Um, what was, it was the movie, just like no secrets. It It was the, they go to the jazz clubs. Oh, La La Land.

La La Land. I loved it. I loved it. Not me. I thought it was great. And as we walked out of La La Land, they're dancing the whole movie in this great jazz, and they're just having all these moments in the jazz clubs, and it's all smoky and dark, and they're dancing and falling in love

and then it ends and the only way it could end, spoiler alert, terribly. It's so good. It's so good. Back to my post. Back at the car, I had a thought. I just paid two Hollywood actors to pretend to be in love,

to go dancing together, to hang out in jazz clubs and pretend to live happily ever after. Why hadn't I just taken my wife dancing? I paid someone else to do it for me. May I never outsource my marriage to strangers and screens again. Some of you were super mean on the internet. Going to the movies is fine.

You're such a loser, Deloney. Oh my gosh, you're always lecturing us about... Number one, I'm not a big fan of Xanax, but y'all should take a bunch. Number two, I know the movies are fine. I like watching movies. I'm a huge movie nerd. I love it. And I have found

myself and the culture with which I live in, we are the outsourced generation. We outsource everything. We outsource our relationships. We outsource our work. We outsource our chores at home. We outsource work on our cars. We outsource our food delivery. We outsource everything. And it occurred to me, huh, I probably talked about it on the show, and I'm just thinking about it, and it's just now.

So, Kelly, you may have to edit this out. This idea of soulmates, star-crossed lovers, right? And I think I've mentioned on the show, that whole idea of soulmates comes from two 13 year olds who wanted to hook up and they ended up secretly getting married and then died in a murder-suicide plot, Romeo and Juliet. That's the standard we hold up to the most romantic story ever told. It's not. It was two idiotic teenagers who died. It's not romance at all, not even close to romance. It's two idiotic teenagers who didn't have TikTok. It probably would have saved everybody a bunch of trouble. And then I think of my grandparents who were married 70-something years,

and they got married super young. And then my granddad went to World War II. And they came back and they raised four kids. The idea of a soulmate, what in the world? Nonsense. And then after 50 years, 60 years, 70 years of marriage, they're both just sitting in chairs going, what? Huh?

Huh? Then my granddad passed away. And my grandmother made several comments to how like her body didn't work. Because a part of her body had left. And so I realized over 70 years, they became soulmates because they lived in the trenches together and they did life together

and they did the Vietnam War together, worried about their boys getting taken off to war. They did recessions together. They did, we don't have enough money for food. They did kids getting in trouble. They did grandkids passing away. They did all that together. And over time, because they didn't outsource their relationships, they were going to have joy. They weren't going to pay somebody else to do it because they didn't have that kind

of money. They had to go dancing. They had to go for a walk and hold hands. They had to figure it out. And I walked out of that movie and thought, I, few places in the world make me happier than a jazz club. I love them. I love the pianist. I love the music. I love the mad jazz, and I'm like, what are y'all doing?

And my brain starts to have a minor epileptic episode. Like, I love it. I like the blue lights. I like the whole thing. I just paid $40 or whatever it costs to go to the movies now for somebody else to do that for me. And me and my wife just sat there eating popcorn and Twizzlers.

And then we just went home. I'm kind of done with that. Kind of done with it. At the end of my life, I want there not to be much tread left on the tires. And I don't want to butt cheek imprints in my couch. I want to have lived my life, not paid somebody else to live it for me. And that comes to my parenting, that comes to romance, that comes to adventures, that comes to all of it. And I remember when we lived downtown Nashville, we had no backyard. Hank and I would

go on something we called adventure walks. He was really young. He was whatever, eight or nine. And we would collect odd, weird things in alleys. It was wild. Little nuts and bolts and sticks and metal pieces and stuff. I'd be like, yeah, you probably don't want to touch that. Let's don't touch that. Or I'd cover it up with leaves because I was like, whoa. But we went searching for adventure and we often found it. Or we'd spend an hour chasing one lizard around it. Like we just went and found adventure.

Here's my point. Stop outsourcing your life. Guys, take her dancing. I don't dance. I'm shut up and take her dancing. Wives, go to that dumb concert. Just go. Just go.

Even if you're like, it's too loud. Get earplugs. Just go. Listen to the music on the way to work when you're by yourself. I've been practicing listening to country music, so my son will love me a little bit more. And now I kind of like some of it. That's a secret. If you tell anybody, I'm going to call you a liar. At the end of the day, stop outsourcing your life. Whatever that

looks like for you. Go get your own groceries. If you can, do your laundry. Don't just call Jeff Bezos for everything. Actually make a list and go to Home Depot and shake hands with one of those old guys. They're awesome. Stop outsourcing your life. Build your own treehouse. Stop outsourcing your life. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings

and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap this up, man, I did not know. Kelly got back from the tattoo parlor last night, and we're all excited. She got a new, an incredible, if you remember when Prince changed his name to a symbol,

she got that symbol. It's incredible. It's all the way down the back of one of her legs. And she always wears really short shorts to work, and so everybody gets to see it all the time. But I asked her what her favorite prince song was and she immediately launched into this classic i never meant to cause you any sorrow i never meant to cause you any pain i only wanted one time to see you laughing i only want to see you laughing in the purple rain i never wanted to be your weekend lover. I only wanted to be some kind of friend. Baby, I could never steal you from another.

It's a shame our friendship had to end. Purple rain, purple rain. Kelly said she wants you to shoot her some messages on Instagram if you actually know what purple rain is. We'll see you soon.