The Dr. Josh Axe Show - How Worship Saved His Life (After Hitting Rock Bottom) | Michael W. Smith

Episode Date: August 6, 2026

In the height of a destructive season involving drugs and depression, Michael W. Smith reached a point where he believed he might lose his life. In this deeply personal conversation, he sits down with Dr. Josh Axe to share what happened the night he hit rock bottom—and why he says he was never the same afterward. Michael also discusses the healing power of worship, the prayer experience that preceded his son’s recovery, the lessons he learned from Billy Graham, and the daily habits helping him stay energized at 68. He also reveals the simple principle that has sustained nearly 45 years of marriage—and what he believes God reveals when we finally become quiet enough to listen. Uncover what’s really going on in your body with advanced biomarker testing for hormones, thyroid, and metabolism— plus a 1-hour consultation with a Senior Health Advisor! → http://mybloodwork.com Thank you to our sponsors! Sunlighten Sauna: https://get.sunlighten.com/axepodcast Manukora Manuka Honey: https://manukora.com/axe Caraway Home: carawayhome.com/drjoshaxe (Use code DRJOSHAXE) for an exclusive discount Watch The Dr. Josh Axe Show every Monday & Thursday on YouTube:    / @drjoshaxe   🎧 Early Access! Our listeners enjoy every episode before anyone else! Tune in below and join our exclusive group of listeners → Spotify: https://bit.ly/DrJoshAxeSpotify Apple Podcast: https://apple.co/3JDvWcS Pre-order my NEW BOOK, Heal Your Cells → http://healyourcellsbook.com/ Watch my free training on how to naturally balance your blood sugar and reverse your symptoms → http://DrAxeDiabetesClass.com Discover practical steps you can take today to start healing your thyroid naturally → http://DrAxeThyroidClass.com If you’re ready to start feeling like yourself again and balance your hormones, take my free class → http://DrAxeHormoneClass.com CONNECT WITH DR. JOSH AXE Instagram →   / drjoshaxe   Facebook →   / drjoshaxe   TikTok →   / thedrjoshaxeshow   X → https://x.com/drjoshaxe/ LinkedIn →   / joshaxe   Website → http://thehealthinstitute.com Sign up for my newsletter → https://bit.ly/4oE9Jf3 Ask Dr. Axe → http://speakpipe.com/drjoshaxe CONNECT WITH GUEST Instagram →  https://www.instagram.com/mwsmithofficial/ Website → https://michaelwsmith.com/ CHAPTERS: 00:00 The moment everything changed 01:40 Welcome to the show 02:30 Why Michael W. Smith moved to a farm 12:00 The hidden power of worship 20:00 How to find peace in a chaotic world 28:00 The importance of mentors and community 33:40 The incredible story behind "Above All" 42:24 The advice that changed Michael's life 44:30 What Billy Graham taught him 53:00 The daily habits that keep him healthy at 68 01:14:00 The secret to a meaningful life 01:15:00 Final encouragement DISCLAIMER This content is strictly the opinion of Dr. Josh Axe and is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice or to take the place of medical advice or treatment from a personal physician. All viewers of this content are advised to consult their doctors or qualified health professionals regarding specific health questions. Neither Dr. Axe nor the publisher of this content takes responsibility for possible health consequences of any person or persons reading or following the information in this educational content. All viewers of this content, especially those taking prescription or over-the-counter medications, should consult their physicians before beginning any nutrition, supplement or lifestyle program. MB01GKPRPTQL1WL Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I hit rock bottom. I had a near drug overdose thing that I feel like I almost died. I felt like the devil was trying to take me out. I was stuck and I was in a pit and I couldn't get out. I went down on my floor for three and a half hours at midnight and I twisted and I turned and I wept and I shook. And about 3.15 in the morning, I was so exhausted and I felt like Aub it was laying on the floor with me with his arm around me. He says, I got you. It's gonna be okay. And I haven't been the same since that night. I think anytime that you get a song on that's uplifting, that's moving in some way, It really can change your perspective. It can change you from being depressed or anxious to peaceful and joyful in just moments.

Just how a three and a half minute song can change somebody's life is remarkable. It's just the power of music. One of the biggest things I found that helped me heal, and then I started digging in the research around this and seeing just so much evidence for it. But just spending time in praise and worship. I think there's so much that God wants to reveal to us, like some really, like, deep, deep, deep stuff that's like earth-shattering. But I think he only gives it to the deep people.

When you abide on a deep, deep level, he gives otherworldly ideas to creative people. We were all in the basement. She was the only one who hadn't prayed there. She just couldn't say anything. So I touched her shoulder. Electricity flew down my body. I've never experienced anything like that. And I started to laugh.

And a minute later, we can't catch our breath on the floor laughing uncontrolled. Something broke in that basement and everything changed. On today's episode, I've got Michael, W. Smith. Now, he's a person I've listened to for a long time. His incredible music. But today, we're going to dive into some of his natural health practices, his farm. We're also going to talk about how praise and prayer can help you heal. And so much more, Michael, welcome the show. Thank you. I'm glad to be on. You know, I think I first met you. We were doing a Bible study together with Ed Silvoso.

I don't know if you remember that, you know, this is quite a few years ago. And, but I listen to your music far before this. In fact, I remember in junior high, I went to a Christian elementary school in junior high. And we would listen to your songs constantly. In fact, I remember being moved to tears. What I think it was friends of friends forever. Probably every graduation across the country, Christian school, we're playing some of your amazing music.

And so anyways, I'm super excited to have you on. So thanks for coming on. Yeah, thank you. Well, I want to dive in and talk about a lot of things. I think there's a lot of maybe things that you do personally for your health and things that you've done for years that I think are going to be interested to talk about today. One of the first things is,

we were just talking about this, you've got a greenhouse and you've got chickens. Yeah. Now, what got you into sort of, you know, farming and some of these other gardening and these natural practices? Well, I think, first and foremost, as you get older, if you sort of have somewhat of clarity of mine, you want to live a long life and live a long life, you need to hang out with the right people. You need to eat the right things, you know.

And we've had a garden forever, every place. we've lived. But when we moved out to Franklin, we finally bought this farm. It's a long story short. So we have 200 acres, about 20 minutes from where we live. And so we built a barn. And so then we started growing stuff out there. And then we met Jordan, Rubin, and talked about greenhouse and all the stuff he's

growing on his farm. And we thought, let's build a greenhouse. So we got this, gosh, these guys, it was an amazing day of building the greenhouse. It was just awesome. These guys, they're not Amish, but they're. Dutch. Yeah. Yeah.

It's either Philadelphia. They speak Philadelphia. They speak Philadelphia. Yeah. You know, they got their suspenders on and they put that thing up like in less than six hours. So we really got into it and we're growing stuff. So, you know, just to be able to pick stuff like almost every day, we pick stuff and we eat it that night. I mean, it's pretty awesome, you know.

And there's nothing like fresh, fresh festival. So that's kind of our new. And I'll have to admit, Debbie, she's got the green thumb, you know, so she's sort of really knows what she's doing. I'm sort of tagging along just picking stuff because you can't pick it quick enough. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's awesome.

Yeah. I, you know, so I got into doing farming through Jordan as well, through Jordan Rubin. So I went in and he bought this farm and I invested in there. And so now I'm a co-owner of the farm in Tennessee, also Missouri. And so it's been really fun. So I go down to summertime here where we've got our. farm quite often. I've been there. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. And then, you know, greenhouses are amazing. I mean, I, you know, I think that it's pretty fun to be able to grow things year-round. And it is,

you really can taste the difference, right? I mean, there is definitely pretty incredible. Definitely. And we had this whole craze, especially after COVID, of people starting to do more homesteading. I know, and I know, and I know, you know, Carrie Underwood and Mike Fisher as well. And they've, you know, they built a couple big greenhouses a couple years ago. And so I've talked to them about some of what they're doing. But, you know, my wife, Chelsea started doing salary. We actually bought 10 acres out in Off of Vaughan and Sneedra over in Nashville. And so we're building greenhouse and sort of mini farm and everything else there too. So it's been a really interesting trend.

What do you think is maybe behind some of this? And I see a lot of Christians doing this too. A lot more Christians and people trying to buy farmland, do chickens, make sourdough bread. I mean, you know, do some of these things. Well, that's just my humble opinion. I think there's just a lot of not so good stuff. in our food that you get at the grocery stores. It's processed.

It's, you know, environment. I mean, I mean, I could go on and on. I mean, who knows? But yeah, I just think that's why people are gravitating towards, you know, if they don't have land, they share land or they share a garden. Yeah. You have a lot of communities that are doing kind of community gardens, which I think is a great thing.

So I just think people are more conscious of their health. And they want to just like me, I think they want to live a long life. and feel good and prosper and all that. Yeah, you know, I've heard this from a lot of just, you know, Christian leaders and pastors to, like, it's like a lot of them, I think they get to a point in their career where, and a lot of times they feel like it's in their 40s or 50s, where maybe sort of a realization of, you know what,

I want to keep doing this and ministering when I'm in my 60s and 70s and 80s and 90s. And, you know, we had Don Finto in our, you know, in the Bible study we did. Yeah. And, you know, he was at, I think he was 93, did a mission trip to, Iraq. Absolutely incredible. I remember I had a patient years ago, probably my best patient I've ever had. He was in his mid-late 70s. His name was John. He was a pastor in Nolensville at a church there. And I said, hey, why are you trying to be so healthy? He said, you know, I would be preaching the gospel and like doing this one in my 90s. So I love that sort of mindset. And it's

pretty amazing. You're still doing music. You're still ministering here now. How much longer do you think you're going to be doing that? Well, I don't think I'll ever retire. You know, I might not be flipping and tripp in at 85, you know. I mean, I want to be like Don. I mean, I just had dinner. Don's mentored me for 43 years. Wow. And, you know, I always say three people change my life, my dad, who was my hero, Billy Graham, who I was very close to Infanto. Infanto's 96. Wow. And he's sharp. And I think he's going to be around for a while, you know. I feel like my best, I mean, I'm 68. I'll just go on record saying. I'm 68, be 69 October. I feel great. I feel like my best work is coming, you know, and so I feel energized.

This is my calling. Maybe it would be different if nobody liked the music and nobody came and I'd have to find another job, you know, that's not the case. So I just kind of feel like I'm hitting into my sweet spot. Everybody kind of wants to know, you know, what am I called to do? And God, show me what that is and let me do it to the best of my ability. And I actually pray that every day. I kind of go, okay, God, what's a? Am I still supposed to do?

to be doing this? Like, what's my next assignment? Yeah. I can't change yesterday. I'm not guaranteed tomorrow. So just even today, who am I supposed to run into? If I go to Whole Foods or I go to Walgreens or just let me reflect who you are to people all around me. So it's more than just music, being an artist, and, you know, I think it's also just living the life, you know. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I had my own, this is a few years ago, had my own personal health battle. And one of the things I experienced, I had a spine infection and walked for a year. This is about three years ago. And when I was going through that, one of the biggest things I found that I feel helped me heal. And then I started digging in the research around this and seeing just so much

evidence for it. But just spending time in praise and worship. I mean, it's amazing. You know, when we see this in the Psalms, we see verses around sort of, you know, just around praise and gratitude and some of the healing effects was research about this now. I mean, is that something that you've experienced or people have come up to you over the years saying, hey, your, your music has helped me break free or heal in some way. Yeah. I mean, all the time. Yeah. I mean, I don't say that boasting. I mean, it's just the power, the power of music. I mean, just how a three and a half minute song can change somebody's life is remarkable. Even in instrumental, I've had, I've had several people. Matter of fact, probably in the double digits of people feel like they got healed, this is

to my freedom record. Wow. And there's no words on freedom. You know, it's just, I always think about David playing for Saul. You know, he probably wasn't singing how majestic is your name. He was playing the harp or playing this instrument. And it just brought, it comforted Saul, you know. So the power of a melody, just incredible.

And yeah, the worship thing, I mean, you know, it's just a, that's what we're made for. Yeah. And I love that scripture. It says, for the spirit of heaviness put on the garment of praise. Oh, wow. So we just feel like you're in the funk. I feel like you just go, Lord, I praise you.

No matter how I feel, I just praise you. If you're worthy to be praised, you know. So not about my emotions. I don't know why I'm feeling this way. Why do I feel depressed or you can go on and on? But Lord, I praise you. I worship you. And yeah, and he inhabits the praises of his people.

Yeah. You know, I think about the way to change our mindset or the emotions we're feeling the most quickly. And I think it's music. I think it's combined with gratitude and praise. I think any time that, you know, again, you get a song on that's uplifting, that's moving in some way, especially if it means something to you or you listen to you listen to your perspective. It can change your perspective. It can change you from being depressed or anxious to peaceful and joyful in just moments, you know, so, so quickly. I agree. And that was something, again, when I was going through, I would have a bad doubt, I would listen. And it would be like, wow, this is, this is creating a shift for me and a really powerful. I also think about it like this, you know, I think when you are listening to Christian music versus other music, you know, there's something about if anyone's ever stood and just watch the ocean waves crash and you feel the sense of sort of awe and wonder, just the bigness there, you've been in a mountain of your snow skiing, you kind of look at this fastness. I think a similar thing can happen when you are reflecting on the power of Jesus, the greatness of God, and you're sitting there sort of reflecting and music helps you do that. Yeah. To me, it has that same sort of empowering, creates that same empowering feeling. Right. I agree. I agree. I'm a big nature guy. I'm a big, like I always want to be an astronaut while I was a kid.

You know, I'm fascinated with space. And I mean, I think if I had a chance, I would probably go up in a rocket and come back down and I'd probably do that. But, I mean, I think what happens is we, you know, we live in such a fast-paced society. And it's just everything's vying for our attention, you know, especially now with media and your phone. And man, it's just, he's screaming everywhere. I mean, the rocks are crying out, you know. Yeah. I remember one time I was, this has been a decade ago, I was dry. I was so sort of in this sweet little place with the Lord and heart was tended for some reason.

I pulled up beside this, I think it was a Bradford pair. It's really close to my studio. And I pulled up and it was in full bloom. and I completely had a meltdown. Just looking at a tree, but I know God created the tree. And so I saw the beauty in the tree. So I'm trying to sort of, you know, even today, you know, I was looking at the news. I turned the phone off.

You don't need to look at the news. And just look around, look around because his beauty is just amazing, you know. So I can have a worship experience looking at the stars. Yeah. Yeah, it's so powerful. Yeah. You know, one of the prescriptions I have is when my mom, she, had battled cancer twice, but the second time she had it, we really took this natural protocol

and approach of healing. And of course, we changed her diet dramatically. We did a lot of things. But one of the biggest things we did is she would regularly, she had about 40 Bible verses. She would just meditate on day and night. She had just worship music kind of going constantly. So anytime, especially anytime she was not feeling in a funk, she would listen to it. And it would just change her. So I think, you know, this combination of using prayer, using sort of praise together is incredibly powerful. And you can share this or not share this. It's sort of this question.

But have you or your family, and some of this might be privacy, so you don't feel like you need to share anything you don't, have you guys walk through any health challenges for you or family members? And if you did, was there something that you did that you felt like was very helpful in order to help the person heal, maybe even from a, you know, a praise, a prayer perspective, anything like that? Well, how are you ever? I don't think Ryan would mind me saying this.

He's my oldest. you know he went through a weird season when he was young like eight to like 12 or maybe it could be nine to 12 and he had ticks he had these ticks and he would shake and then something else would happen and he would just out of nowhere you know then we thought he had Tourette and the doctor he got diagnosed with Tourette and we all were just a mess and just we just wouldn't believe it you know took him to another doctor he doesn't have Tourette you know he just all kids it's under 12. Most of them have ticks, you know, maybe some of them don't reveal themselves, but it was scary. Yeah. But we have a prayer group and it's been together for 35 years. Oh, wow. And so a lot of those people were, I just remember we, they all came to the house and Finto was there. And we were just confident that God was going to heal Ryan, you know. And so we noointed all the doors with oil, especially his room, spent a lot of time in there. And this is an insane story.

So you think I might be wacky, but it really did happen. So I remember we were all in the basement. And Linda Dion, who's in heaven now, she was a part of the prayer group. And so she was the only one who hadn't prayed. We all had prayed there and praying for Ryan, praying for a breakthrough. And she usually has these powerful prayers. Well, she just couldn't say anything. So I touched her shoulder.

And so Deb did on the other side, and electricity flew down my body. And I've never experienced anything like that. And I started to laugh. And Fento started to laugh. This is crazy. And a minute later, we can't catch our breath. And Don and I are on the floor laughing uncontrollably, like almost hyperventilating. Well, everybody else decides to laugh with us.

They just thought, what's going on here? My sweet mother-in-law went and got us all water because we might have been dehydrated. But something broke in that basement and everything changed. Wow. Ticks went away. Wow. Everything. Now, I can't explain that.

That sounds a bit radical, but I just think it was the Holy Spirit. Yeah. And so there was just the release. And then we, you know, we all were walking out going, you know what, I think this thing's going to be okay. And it really did all turn around. But I think it was probably the prayers of that prayer group for years leading up, just believing that there's going to be a breakthrough. There's going to be a healing for him. And it happened on that night.

I love that. Yeah. That's so powerful. Yeah. Our new book, Heal Yourselves, is now available for pre-order. And if you've gotten value from this podcast, we would be so grateful for you grabbing your copy directly through our own channels at Heal Yourselvesbook.com. When you pre-order with us, you're also going to get the cellular peptide guide, the cellular supplement guide, the heal yourselves masterclass, and 40 longevity recipes, plus an at-home bloodwork kit

for only $79 our lowest price ever with a one-hour consultation. So you'll have the results before the book even launches. Again, that's heal yourselvesbook.com, and that offer won't last long. I want to encourage you to take advantage of the offer because we're only going to do that for the next few days. You know, I think there's a, the longest health study ever done today. It was a Harvard study. And now, it's been, it's almost 100 years old now and they keep tracking these metrics. And the single greatest factor for somebody living a long time was having a close-knit community, close-knit family and friends. I mean, we're talking about more than supplements,

more than exercise, more than healthy diet. Right. Was that? Community. Community. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I remember this is, so when I first moved to Nashville, this is almost 20, actually, this is before this. This is more than 20 years ago. I had a friend who was a musician. And he told me that he would just, you know, you let him just go out to your farm and he would just walk around. You know, and so there's probably a hundred people like that that you just let go to your farm and just spend time there. But I know that you've done this for a long time in terms of you, you're just very connected to people. How do you cultivate so many of these really deep, meaningful relationships? Well, I don't always do it well, you know. I actually just told Dawn the other

night, I think I probably need a little bit more community. I'm kind of an introvert and an extrovert. Yeah. I'm kind of both. Yeah. Because I love being with people, but I really love being by myself. Yeah. So I probably need to be a little bit more intentional. It's about hanging out with the prayer group guys. You know, the girls get together all the time and they pray for the husbands, you know, all the time, you know. And the guys don't do that on a regular basis like they do. And we probably should. So it's sort of one of my goals It's just going You know, I just need to go

Have dinner with somebody You know I'd rather just stay home Eat by myself Or eat with Deb She was out of town Going just go be with people So

You know Kind of my community lately It's been my production team Working on this record That I've been working on For over a year and a half And that's been great The guy named Ted T

and J.com I've always wanted to work with Ted He's a brilliant producer So we've had a lot of great discussions. I've kind of gotten to really know him because you spend a lot time together. You get to know, all of a sudden you got a new friend and it's been really good. But yeah, I think you can't be a lone ranger. You know, that's, that's probably spells trouble,

you know. One thing I was thinking, so my, I had a, my grandfather passed away a few years ago. He lived to be 96 and, you know, worked up until pretty much almost the day he died. I mean, really had an amazing life. And, um, and one of the things that, at the funeral that was so amazing is that there were so many people. I looked at this room of people and in conversations with them. And there's over 100 people. And I probably talked, I talked to a lot of people.

And many of them felt like my grandfather was their best friend. Wow. And so, like, he had this amazing thing. And honestly, and you have a very similar demeanor in that is that somebody could meet you a few times. And I feel like this with you is that I've only met you in person really a few times. But I really feel like, you know,

you could be considered a close friend from the standpoint of, of, you know, you're just very warm, easy to connect with on these things. You're willing to serve. I mean, I asked you to come on the podcast. You're like, sure. You know, and I know you're one of the most busy people I know or could be, right? Because there's so many commitments. So I just want to let you know.

I just think that there's just such an amazing spirit about that. I'm just a willingness to be able to just connect with people and bless people. And one of the thing I think I read recently is, and this was, I mean, a few years ago. But, you know, I know your parents passed. and you attributed a lot of things to your dad and your mom. Yeah. So what are some of the things maybe they passed on you in terms of just your, you know? Man, I still miss them both terribly.

They were the greatest parents ever. They just, they were always serving people. It's always serving people. And my dad, I mean, I do things that my dad does. I mean, my mannerisms, you know, I look like my dad. I say hi to everybody. I like a woman, Ed, if he didn't know who they were, he'd go, hey, old buddy, you know, he just set out of everybody. Yeah.

Which, you know, if you're in California or some other places, you think you're crazy. You know what I'm saying? Nothing is California. I got lots of friends in the California. But, you know, it's just, it's not, that's not normal in today's society. But my dad was just, he was gracious to everybody. And so, and the way he loved my mom unconditionally. And my mom was amazing.

Just, so just, you know, I felt like I've got some big shoes to fill. And I think my dad, just the way he lived his life, show me how to do life. He loved me. I have one sibling. He loved us so well. You know, I went through this whole prodigal thing and a drug thing. It just, oh, just was, still can't even believe it happened, you know, from 75 to 79. And I'd moved to Nashville in 78, whatever, long story short, that he never, he never kicked.

me out of the house. He never, he just, they just loved me unconditionally. They knew I was in trouble. They probably didn't know to the extent. They just loved me. They just, and I feel, and I'm completely, I'm, I believe this with every fiber of my being. I wouldn't be having this conversation with you if hadn't been for the prayers of my mom and dad. Oh, wow. On their knees every night, praying for their boy who was doing drugs in Nashville, Tennessee, and almost lost his life. Wow. So, yeah, my dad was my hero. Wow. Yeah.

That's so powerful. When you were going through that period of time, what helped you break through that that drug addiction? Like, what was the thing that just caused you to experience that? Well, I hit rock bottom. But that's what I prayed for. When I almost lost my, I had a near drug overdose thing that I almost feel like I almost died.

It's a crazy thing that happened. I've written about it in books, all the gory details. But I knew when that happened in 78, I felt like the devil was trying to take me out. And I knew, because I got saved when I was 10, had a massive encounter with the Holy Spirit 13, and hear the whole music was going to be a part of my life. I knew that there was an enormous, beautiful call of God on my life. And I felt like the devil was trying to snuff it out and take me out. I really do believe that.

I mean, you look at it. He wants to do that to all of us. The devil wants to kill and steal and destroy our lives. It's been the word. Yeah. So I was stuck and I was in a pit and I couldn't get out. There was no ladder. I was just stuck.

And so, and my mom and dad were praying for me. But I began to pray, God, do whatever you have to do to get my attention. I mean, car wreck, break my legs. I mean, just don't kill me. Just whatever it takes. And I'd never been depressed in my life. I wasn't the most popular guy in school. I played sports,

but I was always up. I was sort of like, you know, just love being with people. And I got depressed. And it went through the summer of 79 and through the fall of 79. And it just like, and it finally, I went down on my floor,

my linoleum floor, which I'm still going to write a song called Linoleum floor. For three and a half hours, midnight and I probably had a nervous breakdown and I twisted and I turned and I whipped and I shook and I just for three and a half hours and about 315 in the morning 3.30 I was so exhausted and I felt like ah but was laying on the floor with me with his arm around me says I got you it's going to be okay and I haven't been the same since that night I was tempted the next day I mean I mean I'm I went, whoa, what was that?

And I was sort of tempted to go out and party with my buddies, but then there was something that was, something was, I couldn't shake what happened that night. And that next day, I was going to my publishing company here. I'm trying to write songs about Jesus and party. And it doesn't quite work. All the songs were awful. And this guy, Randy Cox, came up to me, says, hey,

because I kept saying, Lord, I need a way out. I need a, that was amazing. Give me some friends, do something. Yeah, yeah. And Randy says, hey, there's this. I want to talk to you about something. There's this group called Higher Ground, and they're looking for a piano player. I said, I'll take the job.

He said, well, you don't want to meet him? Nope. I'll take the job. Are you sure you don't want to meet him? No, I take the job because I felt like that was my anchor. Yeah. And so I joined this group called Higher Ground, smoked my last cigarette on the way to the van. And that was, I think it was New Year's Eve of 79.

And those guys nurtured me back to hell spiritually for eight months. And then that following month, I got my first songwriting contract. Then met a girl named Amy Grant and started writing songs for Amy. And then finally got my own record deal. I mean, the list goes on. But I mean, the story goes on. But that's, it was rock bottom. And I got rescued.

Wow. Praise God. Yeah. What amazing story. You know, I remember I had a not to that degree, but I did when I was in college, have a couple years really turned away from God. And then had a similar experience of just feeling this emptiness in this hole and spending a few hours, like over a weekend.

Actually, a whole weekend just locked myself from my room. And I remember praying a prayer. I said, God, because one of the things I felt like was I didn't have any really true deep friends. I mean, I went in my hometown, but moved off to college and just got around the wrong group. And I remember praying, God, would you just send a flood of Christian godly men into my life? Yeah. And honestly, since that, and God is still.

doing it. I mean, I'm like, I prayed that prayer and it's like 30 years. Like it just keeps doing it. Yeah. You know, and I found that that is the thing that helped change me the most is like if my, my single biggest life lesson is probably you become who you spend time with. I agree. You know, and it's just like, wow. And so that has been something I'm just, I still do today. I'm constantly thinking, who am I spending time with? Yeah. Being really proactive with that. And I look back at my parents, they were conscious of this too. But, you know, I was always like, why can't I hang out with this person or go over this person's house? And I mean, thank God for, you know, great parents. Yeah. So you mentioned Amy Grant.

Who are some people that have been sort of iron like sharpens iron for you? Maybe other musicians in the industry for, again, for the past 30 or so years. Well, I have to go back to Dawn, Vinto again. I mean, I mean, I've done a lot of life with Dawn. I always say the three people change. I think I don't know if I already said this, but the three people who, the three minute really changed my life with my dad, Billy Graham. It was very close to Billy.

And he poured his life into me, especially, you know, from 94 on, you know, Tully went to heaven. And, you know, I think he maybe just, I don't know, he just loved me for some reason. And we started doing youth nights together and I did a lot of crusades with him. But, you know, he has five kids. I've got five kids. He's on the road. I'm on the road. Yeah.

We had a lot of things in common, you know. So, yeah, Finto, my dad, Billy. But, you know, just throughout the years, just my band. my teammates, my who I'm on the road with, you know, I can, I can establish a pretty quick relationship. If I'm, if I'm hanging out with these people on a bus all the time, you start to kind of like, you're not going to isolate yourself. I mean, sometimes you've got to go to the back of the bus to, to recalibrate, you know,

from time to time. But no, you get to know these guys and you get to know about their families. And you get to have these deep conversations at night on a bus. We get into this whole thing about what do you think about that? And what do you think about that? And we tried to avoid politics. but it would come up from time to time. But more the thing about how to walk this thing out, you know,

how do we finish strong? How do we not fall off the cliff? And then I would go back to my prayer group, you know, of all the times that we've been together and all the tough stuff that we've gone through, you know, just like the loss of life. You know, we have a person who lost his wife in our prayer group. It's awful, you know.

And, you know, that draws us all together. And so whenever there's an issue, where there's a big thread text, where the, what are we called, the prayer warriors or whatever we're called. You know, there's a thread. And I get something from that thread every other day. Yeah. Because so I know what's going on and pretty much in everybody's life in our prayer group. And it's a beautiful thing. Yeah.

You know, there's no doubt for me. Again, talking about some of these things we've talked about, I think, I mean, church, of course, has been such a blessing and changed me. but I think there's something about growth groups or these sort of things that you're talking about these longstanding groups that change even more because I think there's something about we can sit in church and it is something everyone should be doing. Again, I'm so blessed by hearing an amazing sermon and teaching,

spending time in praise and worship. There's also something about doing life with people. You know, I think like the way that I've learned, I think the Bible proves this out with talking so much about discipleship, but like watching the way other people treat their wives, raise their kids. You know, I've got two daughters now. And I've got some other couples.

I don't know if you know, Michael Hyatt. You know, Mike's got five daughters. I remember when I was first found out I was going to have a daughter. I went to Michael and just said, hey, you know, one of the things he told me, and I thought it was so interesting. He said, you're going to love having daughters. He said, the boys always run off and the girls always stay around and are going to take care of you and you're going to love it.

But I've been so blessed by, and I think any growth I've had has been so much around having amazing mentors and people and watching. So there was a doctor that I mentored for, I mentored under. And he would let me, this is when I was in Florida in school. I would go stay at his house one night a week and then I would work as a nutritionist in his clinic. But I would stay there and be able to see how he interact with his kids in the morning. And so his kids would wake up and, you know, big hugs.

He'd connect with the family. And then they'd literally come up and they would take shots of green juice, teaspoon of fish oil. You know, I'll take their supplements, do breakfast together. But for me, it was just as, I mean, it was maybe more powerful than anything, just saying, oh, this is how you do it. How you do it. Yeah.

Good. Yeah. No, it's good. I mean, actually speak louder than words, you know. And I remember Deb and I would have a lot of these talks about our, you know, our five kids and pray for them or they'll be okay. And we go, we can preach at them all day, but they're watching what we do. Yeah. They're watching how we are interacting, you know.

They're watching how we treat people, you know. So, yeah. So that sounds like a great thing that you had to watch him. do life with his family. Yeah. And we've always been family. We're big, big, big, family people.

I mean, all our kids fought and did all that stuff growing up. They had their little whatever. But all our kids actually really love each other. Oh, wow. And now we have 20 grandkids. Oh, my goodness. I thought we were holding an 18. We're at 20.

And the grandkids love each other. You know, so there's just really cool thing happening. You know, and we just keep praying, oh, God, just hedge of protection. Yeah. Because the world's, you know, much of the world's a bad place, you know. And so, so far, by the grace of God, they're staying on point, which is great. That's so great. Yeah.

So one of the things that I, Jordan Rubin and I have talked about this quite often, we said, hey, when do you get your best ideas? And I, you know, and I write a lot of articles and books and create a good amount of content. And so does Jordan, you know, create supplement formulas and all kinds of things. And both of us have said, I mean, I'm talking about 90% of the time our best ideas have come. And part of me feels like I'm excited to share this also. Part of me feels bad about me. I shouldn't be doing it at this time.

But it's when we're at church doing praise and worship. I mean, I literally, it's almost like I'm spending half of praise and worship. Like, Chelsea's like, get off your phone. I'm like, I will, but I've got this amazing idea that I need to type out right now. And same thing. Like, Jordan and I have put points have gone to certain churches or different things together. and I'm looking across the thing and I see them like that I'm like so there is there's just something that again when we're spending time praising God and sort of in the presence I just feel like these

ideas just flow yeah and it's been really amazing and so that's one thing that again I love about your music I love about just spending time and praise and worship and I know it's different for everybody I was listening to this thing with Elon Musk and he said his first thing is he wakes up in the morning the first thing he does is getting a shower and just thinks for an hour and come up with all his ideas. And sings. Well, I don't know if he sings or not. No, this is totally different. No, he just does it in the shower. I don't think he sings. I think he just, he does it then. But I'm curious for you, how about you? Like, how do you, again, you've created so many amazing songs. Like, what sort of environment do you need to sort of get into in order to write

your best music when you're looking back? Well, I think, I mean, you obviously need, you know, I don't have very many great ideas when you're trying to carry your. the weight of the world on your shoulders and you're thinking about this. You're thinking about, oh, everything's negative and you've got to be positive. You know, it's about just my personal opinion. And I can't tell you exactly why I got in these places. You know, I remember I wrote Agnus Day. You know, I was in my basement in 1990, and it's this worship song that's been resurfaced.

And all these kids, things is a new song. And it's 36 years old. It was whatever. But I was in my basement just having this quiet time, just quiet. I put my hands on the piano. I felt like I was sort of, I was just having Jesus time, honestly, thanking him. And I just put my hands on the keyboard, and I started playing this melody. I wrote this in two minutes. It just came out. And I'm weeping at my keyboard. I'm just weeping in my basement, playing the song. So I think, I believe that he gave me the melody. He gave me the song. Yeah. Why did he give it to me then? And not in 88 or 95?

I have no idea. Yeah. I think there's so much that God wants to reveal to us, like some really, like, deep, deep, deep stuff that's, like, is earth-shattering. But I think he only gives it to the deep people. Yeah. the quiet place, you know, the place of really abiding in this sort of, it's like a consciousness kind of thing. It's not weird. Just being in that thing, being in the deep place, and totally, totally being surrendered to him, like on full scale. Yeah. I think when you abide on a deep, deep level,

I personally think he gives otherworldly ideas to creative people. It's so powerful. To you, to me. I just totally believe that. Yeah. I think if I was running and gunning all the time and trying to put out the fires and just sort of in this sort of nonstop chaos of just trying to keep life together, I don't think I'd be very productive. Yeah. You know, I wouldn't be very happy.

But there's this peace, you know, there's this thing of going, and I say it every day, how do I do it? How do I do it? How do I abide in you? Living in America and all the things that come on my job, you know, how do I sort of, you know, sort of, yes, I got to take care of this and that's a responsibility, but how to sort of stay in this lane of just keeping my mind stayed on you? You say, if you keep your mind staying on him, he keep you in perfect peace.

It's what it says. So I think he wants to reveal some pretty amazing stuff to deep people. And I want to be among the deep people. Yeah. And I think first, this is, I've loved everything you said. This is my favorite thing, though. I think that there's something about being able to, and we see Jesus did this, right? He woke up early in the morning.

He went just to a quiet place to pray. Yeah. And I see this today. I see so many people struggling with health issues. I mean, again, I think that, I mean, it's maybe more than half. I mean, of health issues are due to an emotional state. And foods big. But I do think just this overwhelm of busyness of people have their schedule packed from the second I wake up to go to bed and through the weekend.

It's just so many things. And that doesn't leave room to go deep, right? We're going to your point. Very, very wide. We have social media today. You have maybe 500 friends on there, but how many of like versus you much better going deep with five people. I agree. And so I do love that.

And I think of any time I've had inspiration. Anytime I've had a meaningful idea, it's come from this time of praise and worship, or there's just a lone quiet time in creating space. You know, I've got a two-year-old and six-year-old. I'm my six-year-old. Chelsea and I've started saying that she's like, I'm bored. We're like, good. It's good to be bored, honey.

This is where you can think and be creative. And, you know. You guys are busy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I remember. So busy, so fun.

And that's one of the things we're trying to do. now is and Chelsea and I are constantly reminding each other of like, you know, our two-year-old is now saying words more correctly. We liked it better when she wasn't because it's so darn cute. Right. And just being able to just kind of, yeah, cherish this, this time when they just really want to just connect with you every second of the day. Yeah. And it's, and it's so precious. And now you're getting to do this with 20 grandkids. 20 grandkids. Yeah. I was at our farm last night and I watched my one of my, gosh, Helge Gabriel. He's eight. get baptized last thing.

Oh, wow. In a horse trough. Yeah, we decided not to do the harperth river. We had like 30, 40, 50 people out there. And it was just, and Deb had just got back from Indiana, helping Emily, the old ones who doesn't live here, until we raced out there. And just to watch your grandchild get baptized, you know,

I end up baptizing two of my kids. This doesn't get old. Yeah. I love it. That's so good. If you're taking handfuls of supplements but still feeling exhausted, it means your nutrients aren't getting where they need to go. And unfortunately, conventional blood work will never catch this issue.

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You talked about the three people that really mentored you important in your life. Yeah. And I want to ask you the same question for each of them. Let's start with your dad. Yeah. What is the single biggest thing you learned from him or the best piece of advice he ever gave you? I can't really, I mean, I probably could sit here and recollect all the things he said to me, but he spent time with me. Yeah.

He was my baseball coach. Every season. Somehow he graduated to the next league and somehow he had found his way into that league to be my. baseball coach. Because I wanted to be a professional baseball player. And I was a good. I was obviously built for it. But I had a lot of natural ability.

My skills, you know, were good. And I learned that for my dad because he was a great ball player, a minor league ball player. Yeah. He threw baseball with me every single day. Wow. Every single day. If it weren't the ball field, we were out on the sidewalk in front of our house. So he just spent time with me all the time.

And so. So good. And then when the baseball thing didn't happen, which I thought, oh, my gosh, my dad's going to be so disappointed because I made the all stars every year. And at 15, I didn't make the all stars. That's when I felt like God wanted me to be in music. Well, then my dad becomes my quote-unquote PR agent telling everybody how great I was all the time, which was embarrassing. Even at 18, he was at all my dad, dad, you don't have to, you don't have to do that.

Yeah. And he would say the craziest things. Just like he was, he just thought I hung the moon. My mom and dad were more popular than I. I just, they, but when I would get recognized all the time in the store, I'd think somebody would, I felt like I was being stalked by somebody. I just, I didn't, I'd, I'd, they want my autograph, you know, for 20 years this happened. Because my mom and dad ended up moving to Nashville.

If I get recognized, they get, you're Michael who's soon. I went, yeah, it's nice to meet you. And she's, oh, we love your mom and dad. And they would sit there for 10 minutes, yeah, talking about my mom and dad, you know. So to back up and just say, yeah, my dad spent time with me. I watched him and I treated people and he thought I hung the moon. Billy, to be able to co-labor with him on that first youth night, which was in Cleveland, Ohio in 1994, there was 80,000 kids in Cleveland Stadium.

And to be able to, it was me and D.C. Talk played. I played. And for me to be able to introduce Billy for the first youth night, which that's a whole other story. written about that in my latest book. There's a lot of hesitation of, we're going to get rid of the choir, we're going to have a rock concert, and I think Billy's team was not looked on favorably at all. But Billy thought we've got to reach the next generation. But whatever, to introduce him to watch him give one, I think, one of the best messages I've ever heard him get and watch 10,000 kids come down and accept Christ.

It's a top five for me. Wow. And to be able to do that two or three times a year, 95, 96, all through gosh the next 10, 11, 12 years. What did you learn from Billy? What was the single biggest thing you thought? Yeah, this is... He was on point, man.

I'm telling you what, I mean, we could talk about family. He wasn't about the kids. But, man, it was all just about sharing the gospel. Yeah. I mean, it's just all about sharing Jesus with the world. It was a sort of singular focus of this is the... Pretty much. much. And we would expand and we think, oh, yeah, we're talking about Bono because Bono came

up. He's a friend of mine. He came up and visited. And I knew the bushes. He obviously knew the bushes. And so we'd talk a little bit about that. And then he would pray for me. When he got, when he couldn't get out of his house, obviously being fragile. So I would just go up and take my piano and I would just play his favorite hymns and me. And he would pray over me. I'd go, poof this is like Billy Graham's laying hands on me

and then the last two times I went he didn't have the energy but the headphones on and I would play his favorite hymns and I could hear him humming along with me and then he couldn't pray for me

so I'm laying hands on Billy and praying for Billy it's like wow it's like and it's it's just it was rich

it was rich But he knew, and I say this with all humility, he knew that there was an amazing call of God on my life. So I think he was just every time we would sort of get back on point of what I'm called to do, you know, was to share the gospel through my music. And we talked about how powerful music was. He knew that. That's why he did the rock concert or whatever he has, what he called it, because we're going to pull the kids in. And we got their attention. They all came because of maybe me in D.C. talk and maybe later on in the years.

I started getting older and maybe another younger man. But they came and then he's got him. Yeah. Catching fish. Yeah. Draw them in and then he gives the message and they respond to it. And then Finto, man, just edifying the nonstop. And memorizing scripture together.

Great story with Don. We walked Radnor Lake for years and years and years. we walk it every week. And we never stopped. We just walk, walk, walk, and we talk and we pray. And then the one time, I think it was the second or third time we'd ever done it. We'd ever done it. We sat on a bitch. And he said, Michael.

And then he started to quote and say, I'm going, it's almost like he, what's he doing? I'm going, oh, my gosh, he is the image of the invisible God, the first one among all creation. By him, all things were created. Things in heaven, on earth, invisible and indivisible. And I go, oh, my gosh, he's quoting Colossians. He quoted the whole book by memory like he wrote it to me. Wow. The whole book.

And I went, wow. I was blown. And I went, I've got to learn how to do that. So I went home that night and stayed up to 3 o'clock in the morning, and I memorized Colossians 1, 9 through 16. Wow. And then I memorized Psalm 138. And I memorized Psalm 139.

I memorized Romans 8. And I just started memorizing scripture. And I would walk. And Dom and I would go to Mount LaCont, and we'd walk and quote back and try to memorize Psalm 139. And then I used Psalm 139. I quote it. I can still quote it.

I can still quote the whole thing for you. And I used to do it on stage, quote Psalm 139. It's powerful. To the point at one point, there was somebody, a friend of mine that was, you know, girlfriend got pregnant and was going to abort the child. and he was there and heard me quote Psalm 139 and went back to his girlfriend said we can't abort this child

so they got married and had the child and named their son after my son Ryan so it's just all the backstories of oh here's what Finto did here's what Billy did here's what my dad did but it's all sort of the overflow of just how they poured into my life And it's, and it's fruitful. Yeah.

It becomes fruit. And you go, gosh, I'm doing this stuff today because of what these three men did in my life. Yeah. It's incredible. Yeah. That's so incredible. Yeah. I was just such a testament to just the power.

Again, discipleship, right? Discipleship. And I think that, you know, so funny. Because I've done, my biggest focus, of course, I've been in the health space. The other thing, though, I've spent some time sort of coaching and mentoring other doctors. and people in the health space. But one of the things that I've heard pretty frequently from people is some people saying, oh, I want a mentor, but I don't have one or know where to get one.

And I'll tell you a quick story here. So when I first moved to Nashville, I heard Dave Ramsey on the radio. And I thought, I want to do what he does. And so I started a health radio show modeled after a day where people would call in and I would answer their health questions. And I went up to Dave once I said, Dave, and I didn't know Dave that well. but I just met him. I said,

hey, would you mentor me? And he's like, Josh, I'm so honored to you ask, but no. I don't have the time.

I said, okay, you know. But then I was really prayerful. I was like, God, like I said, I just really feel like

I need somebody that's ahead of me that can really mentor me and lead me. And it was so crazy a few months later, I met Jordan Rubin. And Jordan Rubin's not a lot of,

I mean, he's probably about seven years older than I am. Yeah. And they're just amazing. I just kept praying. And at first, and some people said,

no, but Jordan was the right person. Yeah. You know, such a, such a perfect relationship for me to be able to just learn from him and all the amazing things he's done. And so God's so faithful. But any advice for people who are saying themselves, hey, I want to have some sort of mentor be disciples in some way,

the best way to get done or pursue that. You know what? I honestly think everybody needs a mentor. And I know that's easier said than done, you know? I mean, it was natural for me. Belmont Church and Don married us and we connected. It was just a natural connection.

But I think there's somebody out there, honestly. And I think this is really interesting. You asked me this question because Don and I've talked about this for a long time because I feel like, Don, he's like a father to the city. Yeah. He's a father. And I have felt like for quite some time that part of my calling

is to father. And I don't say, all I'm too young. I'm too young father. I'm still learning, you know, and I don't think, I'm definitely still learning. But I think part of my role is to, is to mentor and how I do that, who I do that with. I just know that I have a lot of good stuff to share. And that's the bad and the good, the good choices and the not so good choices. And I'm having these young musicians whose families are struggling and they're in the quote unquote Christian music business, even the country world going, how'd you do it?

Yeah. How'd you survive success? How is it that you're married to the same woman for almost 45 years? Wow. So they're asking me. So, gosh, why would I not take the time and walk people through some of that? So we've started a little thing. We did our first little meeting about mentoring young couples.

We had it at our house last month. Dom was there. It was amazing. amazing. It was amazing first meeting. So I think it's beginning to happen, you know. But saying that, you know, if you don't have a mentor, the he's got to, then ask God to show you who that is. Yeah. And I think he will, you know. Again, the internet is a, is a dangerous thing, but there's so much great stuff, you know, this show, hello. You know, but just, you know, Deb's always sending me little things go, did you hear this guy, this guy from Scotland?

Oh, it's incredible. And so there's these podcasts and little things that you can find snippets of that are like, you can kind of get mentored by these guys a little bit. You might not even know them. Yeah. So I think that's a good thing. Yeah. If you don't have a Don Finto.

Yeah. But I think God can give you a Finto. Yeah. I think so too. You know, I think that I've tried to balance things where there are certain people, you know, pastors, leaders think that I just constantly am learning from online. You know, a few people that I've tended to follow. over the years and really liked.

And of course, he's struggling with his health right now, but Jordan Peterson. Yeah. I think he's been really amazing. There's a Catholic bishop named Bishop Barron learning from him. And then I've got, yeah, a lot of other Christian pastors and things that I watch on YouTube. And so I just have their channels.

And that's probably where I learn. But then I think that to your point also just having somebody in person, I agree, for me, prayer was the single biggest thing. I think helped me find, you know, finding a mentor. But also me pursuing it myself, like going to church, joining growth groups. It's like actually, because I think sometimes it's like we wait for, we want to sit back, but I think there's something else about us actually pursuing. One of the thing I'll say, and I know that you're like this, is that any time I've had a mentor who's been willing to pour into me,

I try and absolutely surrender. And of course, with a strong moral conscience of with this in terms of, you know, I'm not listening to everything somebody says. I'm walking with the Holy Spirit in this, but trying to, like, if they are giving me advice, I'm following it. You know, I'm really taking action and going out of my way. Because, you know, anytime I've given anybody advice, if they go and take action with advice I give them, I just want to keep pouring into them, right? Versus if I've given plenty of people advice over the ears and it's like,

well, they don't do it. They don't do it. And I don't want to, you know. And so I think that's just an important thing, too, that you are surrendered and coachable and a good disciple if God, you know, sends that person to you. Yeah. I agree.

Yeah. I agree. So one thing I've just picked up from you is that, you know, I know you're generally pretty healthy. You know, we talked about you've got a greenhouse. You've got chickens. Yeah. I mean, that's that's fantastic. You and your family, your son and family. But also, I think you've got some, maybe there's some good health habits. Again, you're 68. You said, you want to be doing this in your 80s and 90s. What are some of your just natural rhythms and habits you have that keep you healthy? Yeah. Well, I try to keep moving. I swim every morning.

Really? I was swimming at 6.30 this morning. Wow. I'm not a great swimmer. You know, I just kick my legs and side strokes and swim on my back, and I try to just stay in there for 30 minutes and just sort of, and it's kind of my God time, you know, I kind of love. I put my earplugs in. You kind of feel like you're in a spaceship, you're in outer space a little bit

because it's weird when you have really good plugs in your ears. And so you're in the water. There's something about being in the water. And there's something about, God, here I am. Lord have mercy on me. Oh, God, according to your death, that's love. to your great compassion, blood out my many transgressions. I just start quoting all the great prayer scriptures that I've got embedded in my heart and head.

And then I usually come down. Sometimes I get in the hot tub and stretch, you know, and then I water the flower. I just stay active. And then the first thing I do normally is I get some lemon juice. Yeah. And I see the lemon juice with some olive oil and I'll just take that or it's lemon juice and apple cider vinegar and a little cayenne. Yeah. And that, that kind of wakes up a little bit, you know.

And then I usually try to sit and just sell in the swing and just try to take the word and just at least have just, even it's just five minutes, you know, just sort of start the day. And then I'll figure out what I'm going to eat. And it's either eggs, I eat a lot of eggs every other day, you know, little cottage cheese with the eggs. And I love on cornbread. Oh, so good. That's the best. Oh, yeah. them the best. If not that it's yogurt, then, you know, and do pumpkin seeds every morning.

I've had a, when you talked about health issues earlier, I had a big health scare two years ago. I had parasites. And as much as I travel all around the world. Oh, yeah. Oh, it was awful. It was awful and got healed by a natural doctor in College Grove, Tennessee. But I'm always conscious that, and I love sushi. And so I don't eat much sushi anymore. yeah i have to be really be careful but pumpkin seeds every morning yogurt uh and then lots of salads lots of fish uh i'm not a vegetarian so i do chicken you know but it's all all natural stuff yeah and then like as i said earlier a lot of times it's just a lot of green beans squashed and zucchini and dev gets creative with you know we'll have some turkey and she'll get creative with it and do

something fun a lot of guacamole avocado yeah i'm trying to gain a little weight because i'm a little thin. So I'm just trying to put on just a little bit of weight. Jordan's helped me with that. Nice. Yeah. And then try not to like, you know, try not to eat a lot at night. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, we've just been taught, oh, we were going to have a big dinner. Yeah. Breakfast, I say, well, we have a big dinner. I'm not really, I don't think that, because I don't feel good when I wake up the next day if I eat something heavy. And I'm going to say heavy, even just a little. lot of food.

Yeah. So I'm trying to do better at that. And then, you know, I look at what I have it's in the past with pizzas after the show and all that stuff, those days are over. Yeah. Yeah. My weakness is probably chips and salsa because I love salsa and I love chips. And so we're on chips with avocado oil.

That's a little better. There go. You know, I'm back on raw milk, which I thought I had some issue with, you know, with milk. But so far, I think it's okay. Okay. So, but it's pretty simple, you know, just I don't, I don't eat out a lot. Yeah. Because I don't know what they're cooking with in the kitchen.

So that's a big deal, seed oils and all that sort of thing, you know. So there's a lot of stuff that I'm learning. And Deb is, she's a great student of all that, you know, so she knows even more than I do. So it's great to have a wife that knows how to make. the right things for both of us. Oh, yeah. I'm impressed. Yeah. I mean, you're swimming. You're doing your lemon juice water in the morning. You're doing olive oil. You're doing a lot of healthy plants and protein. And that's good. Wow. I'm really impressed. Try to stay up. Trying to stay with it. Yeah. That's, it's so good. And I think there's also something about you've got great community.

You love what you got a purpose. You know, I mean, these are things that really are important for longevity and health. And you've got a great marriage. So you've been married as long as I've been alive. 44 years, going on 45 year. And what would you attribute to having such a strong marriage for that long for? Or if there's other couples or people hearing, you know, I want to have a really deep, meaningful marriage. Yeah.

Well, first of all, I'm married way over my head. And she's a godly woman. She's godly. This blows my mind. I think probably, I mean, I say this a lot in the internet. views when I talk about this, but it's simple, but it's just communication. Yeah. And what happens to couples a lot of times is they have arguments and they have difference

of opinions and they fight and it's okay to have an argument every once in a while if you disagree, but they take offense and then they stop talking and then the wound festers and then the gap gets wider. Yeah. And then you're trying to recover and I just said we can't do that. So I just got into the habit, even if, like, we disagreed about something and it was her fault, maybe, and I thought it was her fault. I would just say it's my fault. Yeah.

Because I just want everything to be okay. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to let the sun go down on my anger, you know. Yeah. But it's always been communication, communication, communication. And then with the kind of work that I'm in, just the, you know, it's, gosh, I got an extraordinary life to be able to get to do what I get to do. but it's a dangerous one because it's like I'm this celebrity that I hate that word I've I try to downplay it as much as I can but everybody tells you how great you are all

time yeah you know oh you changed my life and I love that thank you God but you know if you just you just keep keep going all of a sudden you start believing the repress and then all of a sudden you lose your way and and then you lose your marriage and so I remember deb and I when this whole pop thing took off and placed this world and that was kind of that was maybe the toughest time of our marriage because I was on all the talk shows and, you know, and all these ladies were throwing themselves at me. I'd always have a team around me and Deb's home, you know, four kids at that point and nursing one and I'm on Jay Leno and, you know, it's just, it was a little tough. But we knew, I remember us having this big conversation going,

you know what, there's probably, if you look at the stats, there's probably a better chance of us being a casualty than not. So we have. to determine that we're not going to be a cashier. Yeah. And we are not going to lose our marriage. Yeah. So we did everything in our power to protect that. Yeah.

And here we are. Yeah. I mean, we've seen this obviously in recent years more than, I feel like more than ever, in terms of just, you know, pastors and churches and musician just, you know, just falling, you know. Yeah. Do you have any, I guess, any thoughts about that in terms of just maybe the root of that? of maybe being just laxadaisical or not being as focused as you guys were on sort of just protecting that, you know, any thoughts there?

Yeah, I just think that, yeah, especially leaders, but just everybody who's trying to walk this walk and people are falling and you can't be a lone ranger and you just, you, yeah, you just, you really, really, really, my opinion, you have to fight for it, man. Yeah. And you got to fight for it. I even say, you know, if you don't fight for it, you're going to go down. Yeah, yeah. You will go down.

Yeah. So you, so whatever means possible. And if that's just daily accountability to somebody having a group of people, who you're hanging out with. If you got a guy, you know, that's taking a dive and fallen, he more than likely he didn't have a very good community. That's right. And he wasn't honest. That's right. And so whoever that.

team is you've either lied to them or hopefully that community of people would go, bro, you're not being on the up and up with us. Yeah. You kind of start to see through it a little bit. So you just got to fight for it. You've got to fight for it. Yeah. I think the other thing you said there with fighting for it, though, I think it's so important

is that. And I think that this has happened maybe in Protestant churches even more and more. There's been more fractioning because there's so many denominations now. And so there's a lot of churches that are, they just kind of stand by themselves. Like that pastor does not have any. mentorship, doesn't have the community around. There's no accountability. Yeah.

And it's the hardest job in the world. Yeah. I mean, I did it for two years with New River. And I fell in love with the flock. I fell in love with people. And I got, whoa. It just was, well, it was tough for me because I, you know, I'm from the mindset of going, can we not just love God and love people?

Yeah. You know, and a lot of people in the congregation who, wanted to bitch and moan or whatever. They always had a complaint and just kind of, oh, that would, that would wear me out. Because I thought, we've got so many important things to do. We got to bring kingdom down to earth and all that stuff. But yeah, it's, thankfully, there's a lot of great ministries out there.

I know several of them. I've supported some of them that are ministering to pastors, you know, just a wide thing. I know it's a bunch of them in America. They're just ministering to burnout pastors because it's a hard job. It is. A hard job. Yeah.

Well, and if you think, you know, if you think of the strategy of, you know, of Satan, it's, hey, you know, let's go after the leader, right? Because it's going to affect everyone beneath two. And so I think there's a bigger target there. I'll say one other thing about that too. And you might disagree and your viewers might disagree. I'm not sure we do church right. I agree.

Yeah. So I always go back and look at acts. You know, well, all happen there. How did all that go down and how they took care of the poor and took care of each other? And I'm from the mindset of, yeah, you've got to have a pastor. He's got to bring the word. But it's life groups, people do life groups and people walking with each other. Instead of, I'm not a big, big, big church fan, you know, but I know there's great things happening in big congregations.

But I'm kind of the mindset that gets so big. He's starting another fellowship. Yeah, yeah. Start another feltsuit and don't lose the community. So when you do have a large congregation, you really do have to fight for community. So you've got to have home groups. Yeah. So again, I'm not trying to throw anybody out of the bus because I don't know everything.

I'm just, I just think that the mentality of what we all think a pastor should be, I'm not totally convinced that's what God's plan is. Well, I think the other thing is when you look at the early church, and I think that this sort of example could be used in almost anything, you know, at some point, like when I, before I started practicing, as I sat in a classroom. Yeah. And I learned some things.

Yeah. But you can't stop there. Yeah. When I was in practice, I learned 10 times more than when I was in school. Yeah. Ten times more. And I also became, you know, way more effective. Right. And so I think that's sort of the model today. It's we're sitting, we're learning, this sort of Western civilization of we're just going to learn and accumulate information, but versus the priority is where now you're graduating or now it's, applying it, right? And so we see that next, right? It's we're taking care of the poor,

we're serving them, we're doing that. And so I just think that we've kind of made the education part and the entertainment part, the bigger pieces versus the others. And it's just become very imbalanced. I totally agree. Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of the things that's, again, I've been so blessed to be able to just be around some amazing mentors and people that have allowed me to, I think growing that way and be sharper in that way. So again, home groups to me or being able to have those Bible studies is so valuable. And then just going out serving, utilizing our gifts for God. All right, two more things.

One, you know, if there are people listening and maybe they've gone to church some, they consider themselves Christians or non-Christians, but they're saving themselves, like, I want more than that. Yeah. And for me, and I know you, it's, there's been a walking with Jesus, this deep intimate connection. How can people cultivate that real relationship with Jesus? Like, I remember my grandfather, he would always tell me, he taught me to pray, really.

and he would say, you know, Jesus is here with you. Like he's sitting on the bed like he's here with you right now. He's holding your hand. He's here. And I think that was really good for me. And also thinking of it as this relationship, just like we have a relationship going deep in that way. But what is your best advice for people who want more

and they want to build a true relationship with Jesus? Yeah. I just think you have to declare the promises of God over you on a daily basis. I mean, Satan wants to accuse you. He wants to take you down. money, you're not this and you're not that. Look at what you did. You start to believe that.

Oh, I don't measure up. I'm a lost cause. I can't ever get it together. I do the things I don't want to do. Like Paul said, the thing I don't want to do. I do. And you start beating yourself up. And if you get in that sort of thing, you can't calm out of that.

I mean, you have to speak life over yourself. And I've got all these promises of God thing that I love that I go to. all the time, who I am in Christ and who I am. And then I heard Don the other day say this is, gosh, because it would be what I would, I say this, because I saw a little clip from Greg Lorry interviewing Chuck Swindolph, so great, you know, if you had to preach your last sermon, what would it be? And Chuck, just, you know, that exuberant, you know, big smile, I'm trying to talk about the grace of God. I mean, it's so great. I love that guy. But, you know, the whole thing of just, Don was painting the picture in Romans 3. Oh, my gosh, it's depressing.

and oh, I guess we're just, we're doomed, but what happens? God knew that we couldn't do it. He knew we couldn't do it. He knew we couldn't do it. So he made a way. Yeah. He made a way. And so those who believe, those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, he will, by faith,

he will credit you as righteousness. So if you believe, then I'm righteous. I mean, he looks at me like the biblical. There's a white sheet right over, man. He didn't see mine. He didn't see the stuff. He doesn't, he sees me as righteous. And if we can say, wow.

I mean, and Dalman say, man, go while all that in it for a while. He said, that's the best gospel that anybody can ever preach for the rest of their lives. And that's what the world needs to hear. And that's what we're supposed to do. Preach the gospel, to every connet, to all peoples. And it's simple, you know, it's simple. But if you can get, if you can find those scriptures where that's one, as many, but I love that one by faith.

If you have faith and believe on him, he's going to give you righteousness. So you're righteous. The end of story. Yeah. That's extraordinary to me. Absolutely extraordinary to me. And that's why I get up every day,

and that's why I could put one foot in front of the other. I'm going, I'm destined for greatness. Yeah. Not because of my gifts. not because I'm Michael W. It's nothing to do with it. I'm destined for greatness because I know who I am and I'm a child of God and I'm righteous.

Yeah. In process, like we all are. Yeah. But when you get in that mindset, it's a game changer. I love that. I love that. It's so good. I think that, you know,

one of the things that happens is when you, to your point, when you embrace Jesus as your Lord and Savior, now and start building this. relationship with him. Now, I mean, your calling goes from zero to 100. I mean, your purpose, your mission, the meaning of your life. Everything changes that radically. And so the more that you realize that, how much you're loved and how much responsibility now you have to go out and change the world, it is so powerful knowing what it means to be a child of God. You've got so many things going on. You've done so much, but you've got a lot more coming up. What are you most excited about

right now? You know, I'm excited about the new record. You know, this is my 37th album. Believe or not. It's just insane. I love that I'm creating again. I've been working on a symphony for 10 years. I'd love to finish that. You know, the acting thing comes up, but I don't, you know, I don't want to do that unless I find a great script, you know. But I'm really having fun just creating and to be able to do it as long as I have. I say this with so much grateful to smart. there's not to me people get to do it as long as I have. Yeah. You know, usually you have a 10 year and then you're done or a five year. I mean, if you look, there's not, the list is pretty short.

Yeah. And this is my 43rd year of doing this. But having fun with Ted and he's pushing me and I'll go into the, get on this upright piano and I just start writing stuff. And Ted's going, oh, my gosh, what is that? What is that? Pit record. You know, it's just like you get around creative people. and it feed you

and all of a sudden I'm writing stuff going, oh my gosh, I have never written a song like this in mind to our life and I love it. Wow.

So to me, you can't try to be somebody else and I love what all these other people are doing. I love what Forrest Frank's doing. I mean, golly, that guy just sees out there sharing gospel, thousands of people getting saved or not,

you know. I mean, it's amazing. You know, so this is all these great, but I'm not forced Frank. We don't need another Bono. We don't need another public. McCartney. I'm just, I'm me. And I remember, and I'll end here saying this, when I was wrestling with what do I write. And I remember Kyle Lee, a producer I've worked with in the past,

who I love, very talented guy. He said, you know what? You need to make a record for yourself, which he was saying, you need to make a record that you love. And more than likely, if you love it, it's probably a better chance than not that other people will love it as well. So to me, when you write something that just makes you come alive. Yeah. It doesn't get any better than that. And it's so fulfilling and you're so excited. And even if it doesn't connect, maybe that's okay.

Yeah. And some songs, maybe you're just, maybe songs, some songs are just written for God. But audience of one. Maybe it's just, maybe nobody will hear this melody that I wrote. It's an instrumental. Maybe you'll never see the light of day. But sometimes I feel like God's saying,

well done yeah that's good stuff there's borgas about whatever you do do under the lord i love it do it to the lord and and that's what i'm trying to do on a daily basis that you you've been given this gift it's a great responsibility what are you going to do with it he's just going to bury it i'm not going to bury it i'm going to as long as there's creativity coming from heaven and i say that and I heard somebody the other day going, you know, played some song and some guys go, oh, yeah, it's all him. Somebody said, it wasn't that great, you know. So I'm always careful to say, it's all him.

You know, you have to, one of my greatest, two things, maybe I'll end here, two of my two of my greatest things that I would love to do in life. So I'd love to be able to pick into the window of heaven and just hear just five seconds of what's going on up there and bring that down. that would be awesome, you know. And then the other thing, and this is on a personal note, and I think I'm almost there, I'm getting there. I pray that I'll never, ever, ever be offended by anyone ever again.

And would that just be the most freeing place that you don't really care and what people think about you? Yeah. So I'm getting there. That's so good. So it's a book I read years ago, I think it was called When God is Big and People are Small, but sort of that perspective of, that's what you care about is, you know, God, you know, He's looking down on you. You know Jesus is here with us in that,

you're making him proud, your heavenly father proud. And that's what matters most. I love that perspective. It's so powerful. Michael, thanks so much for coming on today. I mean, I've been so blessed. I've learned so much. I've been just convicted in terms of just continuing to delve deeper and memorize scripture and just continue to be better in life. And I think there's something also about your life that is, I mean, this is the most positive way possible. There's some complexity, but there's also simplicity of trying to say yes to the things that matter most, really focusing on God, focusing on family, focusing on your gifts and mission, and not a lot, a lot, a lot else, you know, and so focusing on those things. And I love that. I just want to say,

hey, thanks everybody for listening and tuning in here, the Dr. Act Show. I hope you've been as blessed with this conversation as I have with Michael W. Smith. I want to encourage you, go out and check out his albums. Actually, let me ask you that quick. Where could people find, you know, I guess probably today where they go, Spotify, iTunes, search Michael W.W. Yeah, all the stream. Yeah, Michael,ubbson.com. You can kind of find it all there. But yeah, Spotify, Apple. Who knows? I probably don't even know. half of them. You can follow social media too, a great place to follow him. And if you're not subscribed yet to the podcast, make sure you subscribe as well and share this. You know, there's

so many people, by the way, I'm going to be going to be going to be sharing this. My mom's going to love this. I'm going to be sharing this with my mom and family members because they've been big fans of you, Michael, for years. And so think about one person you could share this with, share it with them on text message or social media or maybe a group chat. If you're on a group chat with people, might bless somebody. And again, thanks for subscribing. And thanks so much for listening here. And hey, if you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment. Let us know what is your favorite Michael W. Smith song? What is something that he shared with you today that you're going to walk away with a piece of wisdom that Michael shared?

We'd love to hear from you as well. So thanks so much for tuning in. We'll see you on the next episode.