The Dr. Josh Axe Show - Pharmakeia: Did the Bible Predict Big Pharma’s Rise?

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

Did the Bible predict the rise of Big Pharma? In this powerful episode, Dr. Josh Axe and Jordan Rubin unpack the meaning of Pharmakeia in Revelation, explore how modern medicine has traded God’s remedies for man-made substitutes, and reveal the biblical blueprint for true healing. From healing leaves and anointing oils to the science behind fruits and spices, discover how ancient wisdom and modern research point to the same truth: God’s medicine still works. Watch The Dr. Josh Axe Show every Monday & Thursday on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@drjoshaxe 🎧 Early Access! Our podcast listeners get every episode early, and you can tune in and be a part of our exclusive listeners below →  Spotify: https://bit.ly/DrJoshAxeSpotify Apple Podcast: https://apple.co/3JDvWcS Pre-order my NEW BOOK, The Biblio Diet → https://bit.ly/4oPEP3t Watch my free training on how to naturally balance your blood sugar and reverse your symptoms →http://DrAxeDiabetesClass.com  Discover practical steps you can take today to start healing your thyroid naturally →   DrAxeThyroidClass.com  If you’re ready to start feeling like yourself again and balance your hormones, take my free class → DrAxeHormoneClass.com  Uncover what’s really going on in your body with advanced biomarker testing for hormones, thyroid, and metabolism— plus a 1-hour consultation with a Senior Health Advisor! →  http://MyBloodWork.com  CONNECT WITH DR. JOSH AXE Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drjoshaxe/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DrJoshAxe/ TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@thedrjoshaxeshow/ X: https://x.com/drjoshaxe/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshaxe Website: http://thehealthinstitute.com Sign up for my newsletter: https://bit.ly/4oE9Jf3 Ask me a question: http://speakpipe.com/drjoshaxe   CONNECT WITH JORDAN RUBIN Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/jordansrubin/ TikTok → https://www.tiktok.com/@jordanrubin?_t=ZT-8xwhDGjad49&_r=1 LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordan-rubin Website → https://jordanrubin.com/ Take a listen to my recent interview on the Girls Gone Bible Podcast → https://youtu.be/3G4iyJspZOo?feature=shared DISCLAIMER This content is strictly the opinion of Dr. Josh Axe and is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice or to take the place of medical advice or treatment from a personal physician. All viewers of this content are advised to consult their doctors or qualified health professionals regarding specific health questions. Neither Dr. Axe nor the publisher of this content takes responsibility for possible health consequences of any person or persons reading or following the information in this educational content. All viewers of this content, especially those taking prescription or over-the-counter medications, should consult their physicians before beginning any nutrition, supplement or lifestyle program. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Pharmakia message is something that's been rumbling for a long time. And frankly, Josh, it's something that we don't want to know about. We want to avoid. And it is scary. 99 out of 100 times people go to a drug or they go to a doctor who I would say today, physicians are largely the servants of pharmacia or the drug industry. I don't believe that physicians are evil. I don't believe that medical doctors want to hurt you.

but their tools, their training, their funding all comes from Big Pharma or Big Pharma Kia. And when man tries to play God, there's always something missing. It's an imperfect attempt to try to duplicate what God created. And someone might say, Jordan, this is ridiculous. Are you telling me that if I go to the doctor and they prescribe me a medication, I am risking my life? The answer is yes. I believe natural remedies adhere to the Hippocratic Oath much more, which is first do no harm. That's the main tenant for a natural treatment.

And I really feel like a lot of conventional medicine therapies, they're taking the Hippocratic Oath instead of the Hippocratic Oath, which by the way comes from Hippocrates, the father of medicine. And even the symbol of medicine today, Josh, if you want to get really. deep. It's the snake. The symbol of medicine is the snake. And what does that represent? The snakes that bit the Israelites when they disobeyed God. And then Moses had to make an image of the snake and lift it up so that the plague would be averted and the people would be healed. It's crazy. If you hear something as a serpent and that is the flagship or logo of something, there's very deep meaning here, Josh. And it is not by accident. It can't be. In the Bible, in the book of revelations, the author John warns us of Pharmakia. Today, translated as pharmaceuticals or sorcery, the Bible also talks about the healing

benefits of food, lifestyles, and herbs. Today I'm going to explore the dangers of pharmaceuticals and the healing power of plants and superfoods with my good friend Jordan Rubin. Jordan is the of the Biblio Diet, the co-author, we wrote the book together, and him and I have been spending years and years together helping heal the planet through regenerative agriculture and through teaching people biblical and natural health principles. Jordan, welcome the show. It's great to be back. Well, you know, I'm excited about this topic because I know that this could be somewhat controversial,

but I also know that this is so important for anybody who wants to heal that they understand what the Bible teaches us in terms of the dangers of pharmacia. and the healing power of leaves and fruits and many of the foods that are referenced in the Bible. And it's amazing. You know, I've been doing a lot of interviews recently talking about biblical health. And the Bible is the greatest book ever written

when it comes to health. I mean, talking about the benefits of fasting, of regenerative agriculture, of prayer, of forgiveness, of talking about foods and herbs and sanitation. You know, I saw this post recently by somebody who, I want to say worship science. And he said, you know, it's due to science that over the past 100 years our lifespan has

increased so much. And it was so interesting because when a lot of people don't realize this, I know you do, but probably the biggest thing that's increased lifespan historically is improved sanitation. And the Bible really teaches sanitation better than any other book out there today. And so it's so interesting that people will give science the credit, which is really a methodology. It's not even a, it's a system that's worshipped. But the Bible has been teaching this since the beginning of time. Absolutely. I think we've talked about this before. When I was getting well from Crohn's disease, Crohn's colitis, rather, I read three books after going to 69

medical experts, trying medications, every natural therapy you can think of. I read three powerful books. And one of them was called none of these diseases. And one of the main messages was God's hygiene principles, sanitation principles, and how if applied, they could have averted the bubonic plague in the Middle Ages. We're talking about simple things like bury your waste or excrement outside the camp, a certain number of feet deep. This was before bacteria was discovered thousands of years before, even during women's menstrual cycle, when they didn't have the same type of, let's say, hygienic menstrual products that they do today. They talked about where you could sit and how quickly someone else could sit on that same area or a certain animal that shouldn't be eaten or what we believe shouldn't be eaten like a pig or a skunk or a rat. If water flowed on an animal and then it flowed on a vase or a vessel used for cooking, they said you needed to destroy the pot.

They didn't know about bacteria. They didn't know about parasites. They didn't know about toxins or did they? I believe every single day when I read the Bible, there's a chance for new revelation. But the pharmacia message is something that's been rumbling for a long time. And frankly, Josh, it's something that we don't want to know about. we want to avoid and it is scary. Well, we know in the book of Revelation, Revelation 18 specifically, and there are other verses in the Bible that allude to using the word pharmacia.

Again, sometimes that's translated sorcery or witchcraft. But it's so interesting to think about that we have an entire industry today that took that term and basically is using it today in Pharmakia. It's pharmaceuticals, the pharmaceutical industry. And when you look at the corruption, when you look at the level. of evil that's infiltrated the pharmaceutical industry and even its inceptions, it's really scary. I mean, I think you, looking at

why an industry was created and who created it can tell you a lot about it. We know John Rockefeller was one of these people that really started sort of spreading these belief systems and methodologies as saying, hey, we're not going to use plants anymore. These things from creation, these things that are natural, we're going to start creating synthetic drugs. We're going to create them for

pennies, charge people of fortune, and build up what's now a multi- trillion dollar industry and we know the largest lawsuits today people can look this up i want to say it's the five to ten largest lawsuits have all been pharmaceuticals due to the side effects you know there's a drug viacs that killed nearly 100 000 people causing their uh causing heart attacks and and in in heart failure and so these are things that i think that when you really look at the side effects of pharmaceuticals today i think i think this is something that you know the bible both talks directly to the people during that time in that moment, but also to us today. And so I think we really need to

listen to the Bible when it comes to its warnings about Pharmakia. The Bible says when we are sick, we should go to the elders of our congregation, our church, and be prayed for and anointed with oil. That's really the first thing we should do. 99 out of 100 times people go to a drug, or they go to a doctor, a physician, who I would say today, physicians are large, the servants of pharmacia or the drug industry. I don't believe that physicians are evil. I don't believe that medical doctors want to hurt you, but their tools, their training, their funding all comes from big pharma or big pharmacia.

And when man tries to play God, there's always something missing. It's an imperfect attempt to try to duplicate what God created. That is the original sin of Lucifer. Satan, Hassatan, the accuser of the brethren. He tried to create everything as a counterfeit when God only creates perfection. And even when he gives us free will and we fail, he gives us a savior. That's what he did with Adam.

So I believe that the foundations of Pharmakia predate. any billionaire or trillionaire who, you would say, has nefarious plans to take over the world, deep state, there's all these different names. I believe Pharmakia had its origins in the fall of not only man, but the fallen angels. This gets really deep. But how does this affect us today? If you blindly take a pharmaceutical and only learn later that you were one of very few who contracted a disease that is incurable due to a side effect.

You mentioned 100,000 from a certain drug. That's just not right. And we've talked a lot and heard a lot about vaccines being one of the biggest challenging categories because you don't get a list of side effects. There aren't the same kind of safety or clinical trials. You're going there to protect yourself from a disease and you might end up having something that is incurable for a lifetime and being completely disabled. So is pharmacia, sorcery, and witchcraft?

Maybe. But I would say that it is definitely worth thinking twice before you, quote, unquote, sell yourself to this pharmaceutical model because there is way more than you bargain for when you have a symptom or a disease and you blindly take a medication. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think when we read the Bible, when we read terms like sorcery, witchcraft, pharmaceutical, pharmacia, I think during that day, maybe there's a little bit more of an awareness of the intent of what was happening with what that those verses were alluding to. But I still think today, per this point we're trying to drive home, is that, you know, when I think about what the devil does, is a lot of times he leaves in an element of truth with something.

It's this level of propaganda, but it's not the full truth, right? And there's this level of manipulation that happens. Also, there's a verse in Proverbs that I love. And it says something to this degree. The Lord, the Lord brings blessing, but he adds no trouble to it. Yes. And it's sort of this thing where it's like, okay, the Lord brings blessing. The Lord brings healing.

And there are no side effects. There are no side effects. And I think when you really look at what is the difference today between if somebody takes turmeric and somebody, he takes ibuprofen. What is the difference between if I'm taking a, you know, Hawthorneberry and a statin drug, right? Almost the same result when you look at these clinical trials,

but one has major side effects and the other doesn't. Absolutely. I think, again, the original sin was someone other than God, in this case, an angel, Lucifer, wanting to be like God, to ascend to the most high. I believe that if you're in certain circles with the creators or fathers of the pharmaceutical industry, the fathers of big food, big ag, all these repurposed chemicals that were used to kill certain things or people that now are used in medications, I believe they are serving

another master. And we're all left to be sheep or lambs going to the slaughter. And someone might say, Jordan, this is ridiculous. Are you telling me that if I go to the doctor and they prescribe me a medication, I am risking my life? The answer is yes. Because every medication comes with at least some risk. And if you've been watching TV programs or streaming shows and you see drug ads, the risk of death is there in some of those. Or the risk of suicide, which that's death.

Yeah, yeah. It is absolutely ridiculous that we don't get to know what's going on. And we as the general public are kept from this information. But here's the bottom line. We need to trust God to keep us healthy, but that doesn't mean blindly do whatever is the status quo. Conventional medicine has become what is called the standard of care. And when you deal with certain conditions, we've talked a lot about cancer on previous programs. there is zero deviation from standard of care.

And by the way, if standard of care pharmaceuticals or medical interventions causes death, it's no issue, practically no risk for the medical system. And the patient has virtually no recourse because it was called standard of care. Now, if someone deviates even to the point of recommending a food or an essential oil or a quote unquote unapproved, natural therapy, then there's loads of risk and liability because it is outside the box of standard of care, which has become a machine or a monster. And I wouldn't be surprised one bit, Josh, if Pharmakia isn't only sorcery and witchcraft, but is the name of a specific demon. So we can get pretty deep along with that because I have seen people with such extraordinarily bad symptoms from a pharmaceutical, even one dose, the only thing I could say is it's evil.

You know, I think that I want to bring this up and please share your opinion of this afterwards. I believe that there are categories in certain pharmaceuticals today that people can benefit from if they're in a life-threatening emergency. I'll share it for myself. I had a bacterial infection in my or some type of infection. Actually, we never knew exactly the type of infection it was. in my disc and I went to a doctor, was recommended, you know, to be on an antibiotic for three months. I did end up getting on it for four weeks, and I believe that that was something that I needed to do.

Now, the first thing I did was, is we prayed constantly for healing. I had everybody from you praying for me, John and Lisa Bevere, Heidi Baker, my wife, my father-in-law, I mean, I was getting prayer constantly. We annoyed in my head with oil. We took communion. I was praising God daily. I was eating perfectly. I was doing all those things. And I felt like for me in that moment,

the right thing to do was to do that. I think I just want to clear up. I think as a broader context, part of what Jordan and I are talking about today is sort of this spirit of evil that sort of infiltrated the whole medical industry. If you're sick, the first thing most Christians don't do today

is go, to Jordan's point, is pray to God, get prayed for for healing, have somebody to lay hands actually on you, physically on you and pray for healing and using herbs and diet and all the things the Bible talks about getting sunshine just living the right lifestyle doing these things for healing absolutely first I think that's sort of the bigger thing that we're talking about in terms of this the whole spirit of it the God complex I mean there are so many doctors Jordan that have a God complex I mean so many I'm the thing about Dr. Fauci as just one primary example as we went

through COVID I think that's why we did so poorly going through COVID is we had doctors that had a God complex and tried to remove God and nature from the equation. I mean, they were even changing things in a dictionary like what actually immunity was or herd immunity. And so all that being said, I'd love for you to share kind of your opinion on. Is there ever a time when somebody should be taking, you know, or any condition where somebody should take an antibiotic or if somebody breaks their arm, they're in a car accident, is there something they should take to clot blood? Like, what is your viewpoint on that? And if it's radically different than mine, that's fine, but I'd love to hear your thoughts there. Well, I think it's only fair when somebody is positioned as a health expert or an expert in anything that you should ask them how they've handled certain things with themselves and their family.

And so I can sit here, Josh, and say there's never a need for medicine. The medical establishment is rooted in evil. Humans are treated like sheep. They don't have a choice. They're told what to do. the patient is dumb. The doctor knows everything. But at the end of the day, how have I lived, at the end of the day, how have I lived my life?

And I've said before, my children are from vast backgrounds. I have six children. Five are adopted. And I brought them into our home at different ages. Now, the children that we adopted early or our biological son, we decided not to allow to have childhood immunizations and vaccines. several of my children have never eaten fast food and none of them have received a medication outside of surgical intervention and these were my choices yeah i take some responsibility

for that where my son had a fracture playing football and my daughter had a torn meniscus playing basketball and both of them had surgery both of them had anesthesia i wasn't able to get all of the ingredients to every pain med or potential antibiotic they received. I remember my daughter, and this was just a year and a half ago, Alexis, she was in the surgical suite and they said, we're going to give you this tablet so you're not nauseous from the anesthesia. And then they also put a patch on her to help with nausea. And she looked at me, dad, do I have to take this? I was a little bit crushed.

Yeah. It wasn't my fault that she was injured. She loves sports. but we felt getting the surgery was the most beneficial path for her to continue playing and doing what she loves. And I know that came with a risk, but I chose to do it. So for me to sit here and say, all medicine is bad, we never need to listen to doctors. They only have their best intentions in mind.

It's not true. I think there are times where you make a decision to take a medicine to do, get a medical treatment or intervention, and it's hard to escape life without doing that. I think emergency medicine by and large is phenomenal. I think the ability to deal with traumas is the best in the world in the United States. And I know I'm kind of beating a dead horse here, but what we are so bad at treating, that is the medical system in the U.S. is chronic degenerative diseases and the idea that by stacking medications, we can recommend or advise a patient to take something for the rest of their lives when it's only been studied

for weeks, months, or at most a year or two. So just to be clear, my family has not lived a perfectly healthy life. We have chosen medical interventions and medications very infrequently, but always after prayer and after lifestyle changes or what you'd call natural remedies. That is the foundation we're built on. And because of that, I've rarely met a person who's relied less on the pharmaceutical system and the medical system than our family. And I feel like we've benefited largely from that. Yeah. Yeah, there's another verse. I know you and I both love, and it's by their fruit, you will recognize them. And I think about this even in terms of countries. The United States ranks,

I believe number one emergency medical care, 70th. And overall, like, longevity, health care, everything else, 70. And, you know, countries like Japan, I think that's number one or number two. And that's another example. You know, when I look at that as a country, I think part of the reason for them, they prioritize lifestyle so much as healthy habits, daily flow, living in tune with nature. I mean, there's a number of things there. They're the largest drinkers of, you know, green tea and just, you know, wild caught fish

and a number of things there. And so, again, for everybody here, we are not saying that, you know, a drug itself is necessarily evil. We're saying just an industry itself has been infiltrated with the spirit of evil. And by the way, there's almost everything you can imagine has been infiltrated with a spirit of evil. A lot of family today, entertainment, government, right? A lot of these industries have been infiltrated with a spirit of evil. I know our friend Johnny, you know, has talked about this.

fairly frequently in terms of there's been these infiltrated areas where God should be at the center. And I think that's the biggest thing that Jordan and I just want to encourage you with. If you are sick, the first thing we want to do, before you take a supplement, before you eat a food, get down on your hands and knees and pray to God for healing. And then have other people lay their hands on you and pray for you for healing and just do exactly what the Bible teaches. That's what we want to encourage you to do. Do exactly what the Bible teaches when it comes to healing. And it's not always easy to do.

I'll give you an example. I'm in a big season of sports for two of my children. And I've got music and drama with my others that are in the house. And my daughter who plays competitive flag football, she is an absolute monster on the field. She got whiplash in the first game of a double header. I saw her with the trainer moving her head around. I was obviously concerned.

My first thought is, does she have Arnica, which is a homeopathic? Does she have this to put on it? Can I give her these systemic enzymes? tablets to reduce the inflammation. But then I remind myself, as soon as she comes off the sideline, put your hands on her neck and pray for healing. It's so easy to want to fix things. And to your point, prayer supersedes natural remedies, the same way it supersedes pharmaceutical remedies. The difference is that I believe natural remedies adhere to the Hippocratic Oath much more, which is, first, do no harm. That's the

the main tenant for a natural treatment. And I really feel like a lot of conventional medicine therapies, they're taking the Hippocratic oath instead of the Hippocratic oath, which by the way comes from Hippocrates, the father of medicine. And even the symbol of medicine today, Josh, if you want to get really deep, it's the snake. The symbol of medicine is the snake. And what does that represent the snakes that bit the Israelites when they disobeyed God and then Moses had to make an image of the snake and lift it up so that the plague would be averted and the people would be healed. It's crazy. If you hear something as a serpent and that is the flagship or logo of something, there's very deep meaning here, Josh, and it is not by accident. It can't be. It is a, it is. It is.

It's, it is. It's crazy. It's crazy to think about, you know, are you looking at a snake or are you looking at the Christ? Right. I mean, it's, it's interesting. You know, another another kind of issue I have, I was on the Girls Gone Bible podcast. These are two just amazing women who are doing such an amazing job with their ministry and their podcast. And one of the things we talked about was antidepressants, in anti-anxiety drugs. And I think of all the drugs out there today that sort of symbolize sort of the problem. with the medical industry is, listen, if you're dealing with depression, anxiety, anything like that, the first thing we should be doing is going to church, getting prayed for, seeking community, praising God, doing those things. And I think one of the problems is that people are taking a drug feeling like it's fixing them, but in fact, it's just numbing them. I mean, they're, you know, in certain ways getting worse, they're never dealing with the root of the problem. And that's one of the things. I'm not saying there's never, ever a time for certain medications, but I am saying that it should never be the first line of defense. It should always be the last line of defense when we're talking

about these pharmaceuticals. So I think generally speaking, we want to encourage everybody to, hey, make a shift. Listen, when you are sick the next time or your kids are sick, as Jordan did with his daughter, put your hands on them and pray for healing. Have your spouse, if you have an injury, have them put their hands on you, pray for healing. And the Bible talks about the book of James, have them anoint your head with oil. You can get simple essential oils and just put a few drops on the head. You could put them on your kind of neck area if you use a carrier oil. That's a great thing to do.

Take communion. I mean, these are things you can do practically as the Bible talks about to focus on healing. Cancer, dementia, heart disease. They're coming for so many people. And it's not just because of what most people think, which is that it's bad luck or bad genetics. The truth is your daily choice. are either creating health or setting the stage for disease and your doctor is probably reading your blood work all wrong. They're missing the cellular issues behind the symptoms. I'm currently offering a simple at-home blood test that actually test for the right things. And just as importantly, it comes with proper interpretation of the results. This new test flips the script. The future of interpreting test results is here. If you want to check it out and grab one before they're gone, just go to my book.

Bloodwork.com now. You can take back control of your metabolism, your energy, and your hormones naturally. I've put together an in-depth, practical training to help you balance your hormones using powerful foods, herbs, and natural lifestyle strategies that actually work. If you're ready to start feeling like yourself again, go to Dr.axhormoneclass.com or click the link in the description to begin your healing, journey today. That's Dr.axhormoneclass.com to take back your health naturally. Josh, on the topic of antidepressant and anti-anxiety medicines, this really hits home.

I feel like people might take what we're saying in an offensive way. But I'm here to tell you, it is my firm belief that antidepressant and anti-anxiety medicines interfere with our ability to hear God and connect in the spirit. are certain pathways that are blocked with antidepressant medications that rob you of at minimum creativity. Now, you hear of people that are on a certain antidepressant and they say, I feel like a zombie or I just feel numb. I don't feel anything.

That's similar to certain symptoms of dementia that basically cause people who are normally engaged and active to be more withdrawn and really just. just a wallflower, if you will. And again, I am being transparent during this program by sharing some of my family stories. I have three children who are half siblings. They may listen to this podcast, but I want to share their history. They come from a generation of diagnosed bipolar disorder, multiple personality disorder, potentially schizophrenia. I got to know some of their family a little bit.

And so we have dealt with serious issues of addiction, trauma, at minimum, serious disobedience, and even what you'd consider tremendous acting out. And I saw it in all three of them. And the oldest and the youngest are separated by 15 years. So we're looking at breaking generational curses. We're looking at inner healing. We're looking at deliverance and anyone who would talk to them would say, why don't they take an antidepressant? Why don't they take an anti-anxiety medication? Why don't they take something to help them with their addictions when they are getting off of the addictive substance so that they can maintain serotonin levels?

Whatever it is, I deal with this reality in my home today and I've dealt with it for the last 11 years since we've brought these three into our. our homes. And I pray for them. I have fed them well when they're in our home. I have used natural remedies. But at the end of the day, the secret that so many people keep from others is that they are on antidepressants. They're told to be on them for life. I heard somebody say that 15 to 25 percent of churchgoers that are adults are on an antidepressant. And don't even get me started on the childhood medications for various neurological disorders or maybe behavioral disorders, ADHD for one. I want everyone to understand that is listening to my voice.

You can be healed and delivered from behavioral and mental disorders. These are plaguing us today. Now that we have been so engrossed in social media and comparing ourselves to everyone, else, you know what they say. We compare our worst days to someone else's highlight real. This has caused our spirit and our soul to be so damaged that people are reaching out for antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications as a lifeline. And I believe it is disrupting our walk with Jesus and it is greatly hurting us. And I don't want to just condemn people because I know many people who are on these medications. There is hope. There are answers. In fact, off the air, Josh, we were just working

with our favorite formulator who helps us at our companies who created this amazing brain health supplement that you and I are both excited to take. Not because we have been diagnosed with a mental or behavioral disorder, but life is tough. I was just thinking this morning and praying about some struggles that I was dealing with. I'm not going to turn to something that shuts off my ability to connect with God and my imagination and creativity, I'm going to trust God and I'm asking him to give me the answers. And one of them this morning was 45 minutes of morning sun with my eyes on the sun and my body just because I knew that's what I needed after being out till midnight at a football game and knowing I was going to drive six hours today and all the things that are happening.

But I want to say directly that if you're on an antidepressant and anti-anxiety medicine, pray and ask God to deliver you from what has been called a life sentence of mental illness because I do believe, Josh, people can be healed from that. Yeah, I mean, number one, go to the great physician. He will tell you the Holy Spirit will lead you in the right direction there. I want to say this too. Like, I'm speaking to this from somebody who's had experience. Like I was the kid diagnosed with ADHD.

I got put on Ritalin. I got put on Adderall. I only took them a short time because. I could tell it was changing my personality, but I experienced those drugs. Listen, I went to the principal's office, I guarantee you, more than any kid in my elementary school, at least in my class, because I had such a hard time focusing in school. And it wasn't until I got to college, and I had sort of a mindset shift. And I started really pursuing God in a stronger way.

I changed my diet. And all of a sudden, it's like I went from getting an almost 2.0 GPA in high school to above a 3.0 later on, you know, 3.9. GPA, but again, I say that because it was God to help change me. You know, following these principles of nature and doing that help. And my mom was on an antidepressant and an anti-anxiety drugs simultaneously. And I saw that it just made her worse for years and years and years. And it wasn't until she started meditating on the Bible day and night and focusing on things she loved to do, that she was able to be set free and get off those drugs and medications. And also I want to say,

think about this one of the side effects of antidepressants is suicidal thoughts or suicide one of the reasons for that is i remember reading a paper on this when you take an antidepressant you no longer have a full realization of what your reactions are going to cause so so like you you actually kind of view things like this you don't view things in light of eternity anymore you kind of view things in a short term and so you're not really stressed because you don't feel like what you do like like your you don't understand the outcomes, the true outcomes of your actions. So think about somebody could kill themselves and not realize, no, that was the end. And so that's one of the side effects there.

I do want to say as well, the Bible's got some great remedies and references in Song of Solomon. It talks about saffron. There are some amazing studies on saffron for mood. There are things out there like St. John's Worse, Sam E, omega-3 fatty acid, zinc, vitamin D, and probiotics, all proven today with scientific literature. many of these, at least the herbals we talked about saffron, referenced in the Bible. We know the power of the sun. We know the power of community. These are the things that are truly going to help make you well is, number one, turning

to God and finding your true purpose and identity and then living by God's design. Absolutely. And to add to some of those amazing herbs and supplements, Ashwaganda root extract is absolutely amazing for all things brain. we are dealing on a hyper-corrhizal epidemic today, which means we are stressing our adrenals, which stresses our thyroid, which puts strain on our cardiovascular system,

our gastrointestinal system. And I have been really deep in researching the benefits of aschwaganda root extract, particularly KSM-66 Ashwaganda. And it's amazing, Josh, when you see young people consume it, their ADHD symptoms are being reduced by nearly 20%, which is pretty awesome considering how desperate the parents are to see results.

You see people that can't sleep. You see people with sexual dysfunction, with low testosterone. This cortisol issue is at the root cause or at minimum, the indirect cause to so many health challenges. And when you consume those adaptogens, aschwaganda is great. rodeola is great for many people panax ginseng is amazing and then we talk about sun and grounding or earthing exercise in general if bottled could be the greatest antidepressant known to man but what happens when you're depressed or when you're on antidepressants you don't want to exercise you become

lethargic and then of course diet the absence of food fasting is a great way to heal your mind body spirit. I didn't necessarily want to get into an entire dissertation on depression, but it's plaguing us, Josh, and it's one of the conditions that people suffer in relative silence. I mean, I believe, and I don't want to misquote here, but I want to believe that like two of the top five selling medications overall as an antidepressant and anxiety drug. I mean, it's incredibly, incredibly high the sales. And that's legal drugs. Now, because I've had a child, that dealt with substance abuse, there is an entire network of black market anti-anxiety and anti-depressants that are being shipped in primarily from overseas.

And that's not being counted in the sales you're referring to. But quote-unquote, street Xanax is very, very popular and a huge issue with young individuals who are addicted or older. Well, you know, when I was on this podcast, I recently mentioned the Christian podcast. they were talking about how, you know, the discussion was how many young girls in high school in college are getting on it so, so early. And so there's, there's, and part of it is due to the social media comparing yourself to, you know, like you mentioned, people, people looking perfect on there. There's all those issues. I do want to mention, you know, one of the things that we really

do in the bibliodide is we really dive deep into these herbs. And so if somebody's saying, hey, I want to learn more about how do I heal depression, anxiety, how do I truly follow a biblical plan for healing, You guys can check out the book, Jordan and I wrote, where we go really in depth on this. It's called the Bibliode Diet here, Healing Secrets of the Bible, how to overcome anxiety. We talk about cancer. We talk about autoimmune disease, healing your gut, hormones, all of this in the book. So check it out the Bibliad Diet. You can get at bookstores nationwide, Amazon.com.

And I can't believe how many people are buying the book. In fact, Jordan and I just will share. This has been, for me, the most popular book I've ever written this early on. We're getting such amazing feedback from the church community, loads and loads of pastors, loads and loads of well-known influencers, uh, podcasters who've actually read the book. I had Riley Gaines. I don't know if you know, Riley, she's, uh, she texts me because I sent her a book. She texted me a couple days ago.

And she was like, man, this book is awesome. And so, like, they're just so, we're just getting such amazing feedback. So we're super excited for you to read this. And then once you read it, you can take this information about what the Bible says about health and healing and talk to others about it. Maybe teach a growth group about it at your church, but at the very least, allow it to help heal you. And you can share that with your family as well. The CDC now estimates that one and every three adults has pre-diabetes.

The signs are there long before a diagnosis, things like constant fatigue, stubborn belly fat, sugar cravings, brain fog, frequent urination, and increased thirst. And these are all symptoms of insulin resistance. the root cause behind most cases of type 2 diabetes. Now, here's the good news. This condition is completely reversible with the right diet, lifestyle, and healing herbs. And if you or someone you love is struggling with blood sugar issues, head over to Dr.axdiabetesclass.com to watch a free training on how to naturally balance your blood sugar and reverse your symptoms.

That's Dr.ax, Diabetesclass.com to take back control of your health today. You know, Jordan, one of the things that people don't realize about herbs as well in medications is I want to say it's anywhere from 30 to 40 percent of medications today. Those compounds were taken from herbs, and then now they're made synthetically. So a lot of times, like these herbs have inspired medications. The problem is now that they're so synthetic that they're impacting the body in a different way. And typically at doses that are extremely high, and so it's imbalancing organ systems and causing other issues there, other issues there as well. I want to transition into something else.

We talked about herbs. We talked about spices. I want to talk about leaves. This is something that's become a passion of yours. And by the way, this is new health content that I have never heard anyone else talk about. And you're going to be one of the first people to ever hear about it on the show today. But it's the healing power of leaves. Now, I'm a big green tea consumer.

I love macha green tea. In fact, every morning Chelsea has her coffee, I have my macha, and I love it. There are so many benefits showing green tea consumption for longevity. But green tea itself doesn't bear fruit. And this is something where I know that even on our farms, you're now growing certain types of fruit trees doing research on the benefits of fruit trees and leaves. And so I want you to talk about sort of this epiphany, this revelations. you had and the verses that inspired it on the healing power of leaves that specifically come from fruit trees.

Here's an interesting point. Believers are told in scripture that if we read revelations specifically out loud, we will receive a blessing. And it's the only book of the Bible that specifically says by reading it, by speaking it, you will receive a blessing. And also interesting is that most Christians don't want to read Revelation because we say we don't understand it. Have you ever said that? Because I know I have back in the day. Oh, it's Revelation. It's so confusing. And the bulls and the wrath and the there's so much symbolism.

Yeah. But in the same book, just four chapters apart, chapter 18 says that sorcery and witchcraft are being used in Babylon. and that Greek word is Pharmakia. Four chapters later, Revelation 22-2 talks about the tree of life that bears 12 types of fruits on the side of a river with water flowing from the sanctuary. And then it says, the leaves are for the healing of the nations. And the Greek word there means cure, medicine, or healing. So we have gone in the world today towards the sorcery and witch.

as our primary medicine when four chapters later, the last chapter of the Bible, it talks about the tree of life, which is longevity. It is what was giving Adam and Eve their eternity in the Garden of Eden. Jesus, through his shed blood, is making a way for us to have access to that again. And the leaves of the trees are for the healing of the nations. I can't go in to the entire message of healing leaves. We talk about it in chapter 14 of the Bibliot diet. We devote an entire chapter on it. God gave my wife a God idea, she says.

I would consider it a word from God. She shared it with me in 2019. And later, God spoke clearly to me from Ezekiel 4712 and Revelation 22, 2, that leaves from fruit trees are. our God-given medicine. I call it TBM, traditional biblical medicine. I believe there's a whole system, Josh, that is waiting to be uncovered. I wrote the Maker's Diet. I wrote multiple books on biblical health, but yet God did not reveal this to me until

2019, 15 years after the Maker's Diet was published from the same Bible. And I'm seeing people and their health restored. by consuming leaves from fruit trees, which, by the way, are largely thrown away, discarded, or at best composted. You know, I want to give an example of this, too. Like so many people today are turning towards metformin for diabetes. We know that this drug has major side effects. It's depleting your body of vitamin B12, for instance, in a major way, which can then cause nerve degeneration. So there's all of these side effects that we're seeing there.

However, there are fruit tree leaves like bayberry and mulberry. And these have been shown in clinical studies to be absolutely phenomenal for blood sugar. Absolutely phenomenal. So there's just an example of a couple. And I know you've got so many more. Give us just a couple more example. The one that blew my mind, by the way, when you told me that an oak tree leaf could have amazing healing benefits. You know, oak trees are everywhere.

It's so exciting, Josh, because my initial reaction when my wife, Nikki, said, I believe you're going to find the answer for cancer was out of frustration. God had healed me from cancer, but it was through principles that I enacted 14 hours a day during a 40-day treatment program or a medication for cancer that costs a fortune and most people can't afford or an herb in the Amazon that there wouldn't be enough supply to bring healing. to people, when I realized through scripture that God's answer to cancer and likely most other diseases was something that grows on trees and falls off in the winter if you're in a colder climate and gets put in garbage bags or raked up, I couldn't believe it. And then people said, well, Jordan, is it an orange tree, an apple tree, a banana tree? I said, yes, but it's an oak tree. It's a walnut tree. It's a hickory tree. So I'll give you an example because people are saying And there's no way that oak leaves are beneficial.

Oak leaves have been studied to have the same or greater antioxidants than black and green tea, depending on the species and where it's grown, to have a similar flavor when it is steeped. And one of the most common, I'll say nutrients or phytonutrients we used naturally during the COVID pandemic was quercetin to boost the immune system, to help with allergies. Quercetin was discovered in oak tree leaves because oak comes from the genus quercas. That's where quercetin comes from. Nobody talks about that. It's amazing to think that nature's greatest quercetin supplement is oak tree leaves. It is.

And you can even make kombucha with it. Anything you do with tea you can make. And it is literally hidden in plain sight. Someone might say, well, Jordan, how does oak have a fruit? In the Bible, fruit could mean nut. it could mean seed or it could mean the fleshy part of what we would consider delicious fruit. And some vegetables are fruits and fruits are vegetables. It gets confusing.

But I've studied this for six years. I'm not a total expert. I'm learning every day. But I believe consuming the leaves of perennial fruit bearing trees, bushes, shrubs, or even vines is the answer to health, reducing. inflammation, boosting the immune system, lowering elevated blood sugar levels that we talked about, and for antimicrobial benefits, antiparacetic, antifungal, antibacterial, antiviral, and get this, leaves of fruit trees are amongst the richest source of minerals on the planet. You're not going to get nutrients depleted.

You're going to get them in abundance. For example, guava is a great source of zinc. mulberry and lemon can be a great source of certain B vitamins, but mostly in the leaves. Meringa is a superfood, but guess what? It bears a fruit called the drumstick fruit. We grow this, so I know. And we planted 600,000 fruit-bearing trees between 2019 and 2021, and praise God. They're ready to be harvested.

We are harvesting every day. And I know two people, actually three, that are either all. of their insulin or they have greatly reduced it with a diabetes diagnosis just from consuming mulberry leaves steeped in hot water alone and you mentioned hawthorn hawthorn leaves are one of the greatest sources of cardio protective compounds known to man and we have probably 50,000 hawthorn trees you know joining me think of this money may not grow on trees as my dad used to say but medicine does. Yes. Medicine grows on trees and it's time that we took God at his word and decided to partake of his true medicine. And so here's some things that you can start doing now. Start thinking

about how to use leaves as medicine. Listen, we're big fans of things like green tea and white tea and Oolong, but also you can go, listen, here's an example, if you've got a ginkgo-beloba tree in your yard, or if you have an oak tree or a mulberry tree or bushes like raspberry, blackberry bush, we've talked about this as well. blueberry, you can actually cut those leaves yourself and then I'll have Jordan walk you through what to do, but dry the leaves and actually use those as tea leaves and medicine. And I know you actually put a recipe, we put a recipe for how to do that here in the Bibliode. Yes, you can forage for your own leaves if you have trees in your garden on your property. If there's a botanical garden, if there's any patch of forest, you can get an herb or plant finder app and you can determine

what you're looking at in these trees. It could be a persimmon that you just don't see the fruit, but persimmon leaves are amazing. Could be an American pawpaw. Could be a blueberry, an eastern hackberry. Could be a high bush cranberry. These are everywhere, no matter where you live. And you don't even need to dry the leaves, Josh.

I remember we were somewhere and we took pine needles from pine nut-bearing pine trees because there's pine nuts in the pine cones, mixed it with oak leaves. and walnut and muskidines, which are a grape-like berry. So that was four different leaves we found in a forest. We put these leaves in boiling hot water, poured it into a cup, and drank it, and it tasted like tea. We got a boatload of antioxidants and plant nutrients that you would normally buy in a supplement from picking leaves off of trees. And best of all, you're not robbing a tree when you pick its leaves.

it'll grow back. It's the most renewable resource known to man. I am so excited about this. And you mentioned in the Biblio diet, we give a recipe. We tell you how to find these leaves. Certain cultures consume these leaves in their diet. Think of grape leaves or dolmos in Greek. Think of olive leaf, raspberry leaves. We often recommend for women who want to have a hastening of their contractions or for increasing breast milk. We talked about Meringa, which is now known as a superfood. It's called the Tree of Life. There are over 1,500 fruit tree leaves that I have studied, and all of them have between 60 and 300 beneficial plant compounds each.

It's amazing. It's amazing. I also have this picture in my mind of money actually growing on trees, but people actually saving money because they can just go into their own backyard or a local forest and actually find these tree leaves, bring them home, make tea from them. fresh that way. It really, really is incredible. And apple leaves are amazing. Peach leaves are amazing. Just when I get home today, I've got blackberry leaves waiting for me that we've been

tinkering with some different recipes. Blackberry leaves are so amazing for the gut. They have certain Alagia tannins and other what you'd call hydrolyzable tannins that can help the gut. These are absolutely amazing. We talk about pomegranate leaves, soursop leaves or graviola, which in laboratory research have been shown to reduce the growth of many cancers. God says the leaves are medicine, healing, and therefore the nations. If we are Bible believers, let's take God at his word and start consuming this. And I can tell you over the last six years, I've seen miraculous results in people. We even tell a story of a young man who overcame late stage metastatic cancer in part by consuming

what we call healing leaves every day. And Josh, he got the leaves from a local orchard when he found a stand at a farmer's market and asked, where are you growing these trees? And in fact, one of his relatives worked at that farmer's market and was able to connect him to that orchard. And he literally went with a pair of scissors, took God at his word, and he is now completely healed of cancer. Yeah, one thing that I've done, and this is so easy to do, is you can actually go for, listen, I know everybody's at a different level of tech, uh, understanding here. Jordan is at the very low level. Uh, no, you know, no offense to you.

Um, I'm not at the highest, but, but higher than Jordan in terms of my tech savviness. So, but here's what you can do. If you have an app like AI, any sort of AI tool, whether it's chat GTP or Bard or GROC, you can actually take a picture of a tree leaf and ask what type of tree leaf that is. And what are its medicinal benefits? okay and then you just take a handful throw them in a pot with water simmer it for 30 minutes and then drink the fluid that that's it it is so so simple what you can do there in order to do that and it's a fun thing by the way this is a great thing to do with kids teaching your kids about different leaves that are in nature that have healing properties is so so powerful

and so again this is a great way to educate your kids and show god's design and what he's put here on the earth for us to benefit from in healing our body bodies. You know, we talked about essential oils a little earlier as well from the standpoint of the Bible in the book of James specifically saying, if you're sick, go to the elders of the church, have them pray for you for healing, anointing your head with oil, and you will be made well. And so this is another thing that I just want to reference for everybody is do that. Take God at his word, him saying, do that exactly. Get a few essential oils. You know, there is a recipe for the holy anointing oil. You could look that up online. well. I believe it's olive oil, myr, calamus, cassia, cinnamon, and I might be missing one there as well.

But that's the basis for that holy anointing oil. And you could, again, mix olive oil with those, ask the parts. And do it. When you're sick, teaching your kids this as well, it's so powerful. It's not just about teaching. It's about being obedient to God and experiencing his healing by living out what the Bible speaks of. And I know Jordan and I are both big users of essential oils. We'll do another episode on this in the future, diving into all the different. benefits of the many different types of essential oils there as well. And the reality is essential oils are referenced numerous numerous times throughout the Bible. Absolutely. An olive oil in and of itself is amazing. It was used for anointing. It represents the Holy Spirit. One thing we do at night at dinner,

virtually every night when we're together, I have a small shot glass of olive oil, the highest quality I can find, whether it's from Italy, Greece, or Morocco. And we all take either a tablespoon or the older adults take an out shot and we will quote Acts 1-8 will say, and we will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon us and we will be your witnesses. And if we're in Birmingham, we say in Birmingham, Alabama, Nashville, Tennessee, and to all the ends of the earth. We say that because we live in both places. And then I pour everyone a glass of healing leaves,

which is God's medicine, cure, and healing combined with God's anointing representing the Holy Spirit. But here's what's interesting about that. If you fast forward and look at modern science and modern health language, mitochondrial health, cellular health, you talk about polyphenols. Guess what? High quality extra virgin olive oil and a healing leaves beverage is loaded with polyphenols that help your mitochondria and help us with longevity.

God said it first. first, we're just taking him at his word and every night we get an opportunity to consume these things. And in part, I believe God honors that because we are being obedient to his word. We're reading his word, which says the leaves are for healing, the oil of joy, the oil of gladness, the oil of anointing, and we're consuming it. Our behavior is lining up with our beliefs. That's what's called integrity, and it brings me a great sense of peace as a father that my children and my wife and myself are partaking of God's healing medicine each and every night. It's simple. It tastes good, and science is barely catching up to God's wisdom, but the Bible said it first, and we can

benefit from that long before a scientist gives the thumbs up. Yeah. Absolutely agree. Again, Jordan and I want to encourage you to first go to the great physician. Remember this. There is a spirit of evil that has infiltrated the medical system today. This quick fix mentality, getting away from nature and God's design, that's not of God. And so do everything you can, as it says in Romans 12, 1 and 2. And just want to encourage you with that. And 1st Corinthians 1031, whether you eat, drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. And so when you are sick next time or right now trying to promote longevity, follow a biblical plan,

a plan based on the greatest book ever written inspired by God, the Bible. Okay, we want to encourage you to do that. And again, go to herbs and plants and foods and lifestyle. And again, to God first, if you're sick, pray for yourself, have others pray for you for healing, and you will be made well. Hey, thanks so much for tuning in here to the Dr. Josh Jack show. Remember each and every week we're diving deep into the science and principles of how you can heal physically, mentally and spiritually. Also, don't forget to subscribe.

I want to mention, as I've mentioned a few times now, sometimes some of these episodes, because this was another one, very controversial, it's been shadow band on YouTube. And so if you are not subscribed, oftentimes it will not show up on your feed. So make sure to subscribe because, again, it's the number one thing you can do to support the podcast and allow me to bring in more high-profile guests like Jordan. go deeper and deeper into some of these things that are even sometimes found to be controversial. Also, thank you so much for sharing this. People need to know the truth, both Christians and non-Christians, the truth about biblical medicine and how to heal by God's design. So thanks for subscribing. Thanks for sharing. We'll see you on the next episode. And we're praying in faith for your health and longevity.