The Dr. Josh Axe Show - This is a TOXIC Expectation for Moms | Paula Faris

Episode Date: February 1, 2024

Do you feel like you’re doing it all and still falling short? Paula Faris is the founder of CARRY MediaTM, former co-anchor of Good Morning America Weekend and co-host of The View. Paula sits down with Dr. Josh Axe to discuss ditching the guilt of struggling to do it all and finding freedom through relying on family and community. You'll discover: A powerful mindset shift to stop trying to do it all perfectly Why it’s important to ask for help Steps to overcome perfectionism, self-doubt and imposter syndrome Insights on building an unshakeable identity Advice for tuning out cultural expectations and living a purpose-driven life You'll be inspired to let go of expectation, foster community, and rediscover the joy of motherhood. Tune in to gain perspective and walk away with actionable tips to lessen your load. Want more of The Growth Lab with Dr. Josh Axe? Subscribe to the YouTube channel. Follow Dr. Josh Axe Instagram Twitter Facebook Tik-Tok Follow Paula Faris Instagram Twitter Facebook Follow Leaders Instagram Twitter Facebook Email Newsletter ------  Links:  https://www.paulafarisofficial.com/ Check out The Paula Faris Show → http://bit.ly/48JY7ij Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Well, I think we grow up thinking we have to do one thing for the rest of our lives, right? What am I called to? What's my calling? And we hear that a lot in the faith space, too, but also, you know, in the mainstream space, what's your name? What do you do? And we place so much emphasis on what we do and place so much of our identity into that as well. And, you know, one thing that I learned after getting called out in 2018 when I stepped away from those prestigious positions and couldn't identify myself as, I'm Paula. I'm the anchor of GMA and Coast of the View. God really revealed to me that he's going to call me. He's going to call us to different things in different seasons. So I can't hold tight to it. And that's not my identity. And I have to remember what I'm doing and who I'm doing it for, right? I just say, give yourself permission to try new things and new seasons. Your value is not your vocation. Look at your life as chapters and seasons instead of, I got to figure it all out. I got to figure out the next 20 years. No, what is, what are you being called to in this season?

Hey, everybody, Dr. Josh Axe here. Welcome to Growth Lab podcast where each and every week we cover the science behind how to grow yourself, your health, your wealth, and take your career, your relationships and your spiritual wellness to the next level. This week we have Paula Ferris with us today. She is a, she was a co-host of The View. She is a bestselling author of a book called How to Carry It All, Ditch the Mom, Ditch the Mom. guilt and find a better way forward, which I'm excited to talk about today. And she's been a person also who I've admired, who just being very outspoken and very authentic about her faith, her mindset about being a mom and a woman who has had an extremely successful career. And before the

interview started, I'm not going to hold this against her. I found out she's a big Michigan fan and I'm on high estate fan. But we've already gotten past that point. And I want to say, hey, Paula, we're so excited to chat with you today. But have we gotten past? that point, Dr. Josh, have we really? We may never, but that's okay. We can be friends, but we'll be sworn enemies that one Saturday every November, which is when Ohio State and Michigan play. That's right. That's exactly right. Well, I'm excited to talk today because, you know, I think one of the things that I've seen that I get questions about sometimes, but I know I grew up with this, is that how do you thrive as a mom and somebody who is also in the workplace, right?

And I think those are two roles that I think many people would agree that could be full-time both, right? Yeah. I was doing some research on this recently, and they said, if we were to pay full-time mom, a stay-at-home mom, a full-time salary, the salary would be $184,000 a year because it's not a 40-hour job. No, it's not. They give it a 96-hour plus job and all the different things that went along with it.

And so really, there's a lot that you juggle. And so that's one of the things, maybe just even starting off, I'd love to ask you about is, how do you thrive in both of those roles successfully? And maybe there's more than both. It's also being a wife and there's other things that you've got maybe involvement outside of that. Yeah. And you brought up the book, you don't have to carry it all, ditch the mom guilt and find a better way forward. And I think, you know, Dr. Josh, I've done a lot of research in this particular area with the book interviewing renowned experts and historians and sociologists about why it's so hard to be a working mom, a mother here in America.

And nowhere but really here in the U.S. of A, do women have to choose between kids and a career? There's very much an expectation in this country that you have to carry it all. You have to do it all. and you can't ask for help or if you do, that's a weakness or you're a failure. And I think that's why so many moms are burnt out because we're juggling so much. We're carrying the weight of our family and responsibilities at home and work. And it's why our mental health is suffering. It's where our physical health is suffering because we're trying to carry this unnecessary,

this large load that we were never meant to carry on our own. And look, being a mother working, I work because I not only have to to help support my family, but I work because I really love the work that I get to do. And right now I'm advocating for working moms, making sure that being a working mom works, that motherhood is celebrated. But yeah, how do you do them both? It's hard. You've probably heard that saying you can have it all not at the same time. That's really an American thing.

Like in other countries, women have no choice but to work. They take a great amount of pride in working and helping to contribute financially to the home. And they don't suffer from mom guilt because on the other side of that, Josh, not only do they have to work, there's a great amount of support from society, from the perception and attitudes of their particular country, the policymakers. Here in America, it's your kid, your problem, your family, your problem. It's very, very individualized in other countries. They're their brother's keeper. So there isn't this guilt about working because not only do they have to work, they take pride in it, but there's a lot of support on the other side of it.

And kids aren't seen as a valueless commodity like they are here in America. But the way that the best advice that I have ever received is from a friend of mine. And, you know, I truly believe we don't have to carry it all. We try to. but it's not good for our health. But she said, Paula, the best thing you can do is go into each day knowing that you are going to drop a ball or two or three. And I go into each day knowing I'm going to drop a ball or two.

I'm probably going to drop some balls, okay? But I'm going to keep the glass balls in the air. The plastic ones, they can drop because plastic bounces. So what that has allowed me to do, Dr. Josh, is just accept my imperfection as a mother. as a wife, as a worker, as a human being, except my imperfection every single day, and also to prioritize what really matters. Because is it like, yeah, if I drop that plastic ball, it's not going to be the end of the world. But if I drop that glass ball, things will shatter. So I drop the perfectionism. And I also am able to prioritize what's really important. And I give myself a lot of

grace because I'm human. And I'm not trying to carry it all anymore because I try. that for years, Dr. Josh, and I had an identity crisis. I have had ongoing health issues. It's just not good for our overall well-being to try to carry it all and to try to do it all as parents, as wives, as mothers, as workers. Well, I think what you're hitting on here is it's a, it's a deeper issue. You've used the word identity quite often. And I think that, you know, I think when we think about more of Western society today and I've done a, a lot of research and study behind this in terms of having more of an Eastern, even Hebraic mindset or more of our kind of, you know, Western mindset around individualism. And so it is this

idea of we've got to be the hero. We've got to carry it all ourselves that you've been sharing versus, you know, I'm thinking back even to the Bible where it talks about when you get married, you know, you're sort of adding on to your in-law's house, right? I mean, there was a lot more of that familial support. The interdependency, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I think that's something we've really lost, especially over the last, you know, 50, 100 years is that, you know, a lot of times we don't live close to our relatives or our family. And we go to a place and we kind of get, you know, just completely isolated, even from our community. And I know for myself, we have a, we have, Chelsea and I have a three and a half year old, another one that's coming any day now. And, and we rely so much on our, my in-laws. I mean, they are just there. Like, I, I, I, I told. them even to my my sister and brother on my law. I'm like, I call dibs. Like, you know, and I would love my in-laws. Like, we will build a house, you know, right next door to them because we just, we rely on them so much. And that's just allowed us to have so much freedom, so much more ease

and less stress in life. And, you know, not everyone has that exact, maybe not everyone has their parents around or grew up with supportive parents. And they may not have that support, but either way, we should still go and build community. Talk about that a little bit. in terms of even your own life. How have you guys gone and created this? Is it with family, is it with other people? How have you created that network of support? Yeah, your friends can become your family. So we, my husband and I are both from the Midwest. He's from Indiana and I'm from Michigan. We were college sweethearts. We met in Ohio at a small Christian school. We've been together. Cedarville University near Dayton. Oh, yeah. I used to get a basketball camp there because I grew up in

Dayton. So I've been there. That's a great. You went to basketball camp. I wonder if you've got to ask my husband about you. So my husband played college basketball at Cedarville and was a college basketball All-American. But all that to say, like we lived in Ohio for 12 years. We lived in Chicago. We lived in New York.

We were moving around for work, mainly my work, because in television, in the world of television news, it's like coaching. You have to take the smaller job and then move up to junior high and coaching high school and coaching college. And so for me, it was like working in different. markets that's why I worked in Dayton, Ohio, in Cincinnati, Ohio, and then Chicago, and then New York. And we never had family very close to us. I mean, I left home in 1997 when I graduated high school, and I never went back to Jackson, Michigan, where I was born and raised,

to live full time. And so we've always had to create this community. But Dr. Josh, in all honesty, it took me a long time to really ask for help. I would say in the last couple years, and I'm 48. So like the majority of my time as a mother and as a and as a woman, I had this mantra where I've got to do it all. I've got to carry it all. I can't ask for help. It's almost like we wear this this badge of honor as a as a mommy martyr or just a martyr like, no, I can do it myself. You know better than anyone else. That is not good for your well-being. And it's not how we were created. You know, you mentioned the beautiful interdependency. that we have gotten so far away from where family members would live with you. And there's just this beautiful structure where you have people helping to raise your children. It's not just on you to raise your kids. And we've gotten so far away from that. In other countries, you know, they have the family member living with him.

They have community that surrounds them and supports them. They are their brother's keeper. I saw this firsthand. My father is from Lebanon in the Middle East. and he passed away in 2019. And as we paid homage to my dad and we went back to the homeland, there are 12 of us. Okay, so it's my siblings, my three siblings are four of us total. And then eight of my first cousins, Dr. Josh, and we went back to the homeland to go see our family.

We still have a lot of family in Lebanon. And it, it, it, my, uh, Jadu and my Situ, that's Arabic for grandfather and grandmother, we're from this small mountain village called Kaituli. and I was so struck by the structures. Okay, they don't have a lot. They have apartments, but the apartments aren't like finished on the top. You see on the four corners, they still have these steel beams, posts almost waiting for the next family member to move in on top. So it was like, you know, it was my auntie and then her sister on top of her and then her kids on top of her.

Like there's just this beautiful interdependence where they're tight knit. They rely on one another. They're not a burden. They ask for help. There's almost a frustration and anger if you don't ask for help. If you don't rely. So it's like how did we get so far away from that where we don't ask for help, where we feel like we're a failure or we're weak if we're asking for help?

And it's just I realize it's not good for my emotional, mental, physical well-being. and it's not how we were created to live. So creating the community, creating the family that you may not have close by, you know, recently, like I said, I didn't do that very well. I wore that Mommy Martyr badge for so long, but now just creating that family, the friends who become family that you want has been instrumental. And, you know, we have young people in our kids lives that can speak life into them, you know, 20, 21 year olds, you know, I have friends that speak life into my kids that take care of my kids and help to raise my kids, whether they're from our church or our small group or from the many different sports organizations that we're

a part of. And a lot of people are like, I don't have that. We'll create it. You have, it's, don't wait for it to come to you. I realized I have to be that to somebody else. So calling a friend up, hey, I'm going to take your kid for the week, kids, for the weekend, go enjoy, you know, go enjoy a weekend away. Or I'm going to just proactively tell my friend, I'll pick your son up or your daughter up from practice and take them home for you. Like, be that help to somebody else. Break down those, that stigma and those barriers of asking for help. And be that community, be that change that you want. And you'll notice that you're going to start to form that community, that you rely on one another. Like, I need to rely on someone that is not a sign of weakness.

It's not failure. And I've had to get over it because our society says something different. Yeah, I think there's so much wisdom there. And this is what I saw with, this is something that my mom did growing up. And I was really blessed to have a mom who was, I think, conscious of us so much of what you're sharing. And so my mom, it really, it's the two things you mentioned. It was we had our church. And so there were, you know, like, you know, carpooling.

And then over time, just sort of created a, you know, I would go over to a friend's house or we'd watch their kids, even overnight and those sort of things. So we started doing that via our church. And also I went to a Christian school when I was younger, not through high school, but just through elementary school, but developed those relationships in sports was that other area. But there definitely is a level of having to pursue those relationships and get involved a little bit, you know, and staying after church or inviting those people over and interacting in that way. So I love that you shared that because I think that's something a lot of people, you know, might, might make an excuse about saying, well, I don't have that. And as you said,

you've got to go and create that community. You know, there's a, there's a principle that I love, and I know you've heard it too. And I think Jim Rohn said this, but there's also a law called Dunbar's law about it. And that's you become like the people you spend the most time with. And the same goes for your kids. You know, growing up, I think my parents, I used to think my parents were just so, you know, stiff. And they were really conscious about who I spent time with. Yeah. You know, and looking back, I'm like, I am so, so grateful now that I had those parents who drew those boundaries and who were saying, I want you spending time with this person. Hey, I want you to be careful with this person. I mean, just very, they were very aware of that.

Yeah, there's a study that came out recently with some of that, well, well, this is, I think this is related is there's a study that came out recently about daycare and how, how bad daycare can be for kids development. In fact, there's a much, much higher rate of ADHD in kids that are, in daycare and also emotional issues as well mental health issues and so you know part of that is due to well who are the kids hanging out with when they're three years old a lot of other chaotic three year olds and they can't go over to their mom or even the 21 year old or whatever and kind of like get rebalanced get reaffirmed get loved for a second and then go back out like they would at uh they're at their parent with a playground what are your thoughts on that and is that something and by the

the way, and I say, when I say this, too, it's not to make anyone feel guilty about putting your kids in daycare, but I always want to share the reality of these are several studies coming out and showing that it's, you know, it's not, not as healthy as maybe some other scenarios for, for kids. Yeah, and that's why I think that there should be an emphasis on not just affordable child care, but quality child care in this country. And, I mean, the reality is, you know, I think I had a lot of blind spots for a long time, Josh, and I was like, yeah, if you, and it was also the way I was raised. If you love your kid, you have to stay home and raise them, right?

It's not the reality for the majority of families in this country. We are dual-income homes. We have a lot of single parents as well that are reliant on daycare and reliant on child care. And that's why I think if we really, I just gave a talk on this to the Oklahoma Commission on the status of women and the child care crisis, I think if we really want to support women in the workforce, if we want to break down and make sure that there's gender equality, if we want to grow our economy, and if we want to make sure families are healthy, we need to invest in child care and quality and affordable child care. And I gave this talk and I made a case for why quality and affordable child care are necessary,

A, necessary for a healthy economy because Dr. Josh, if we don't have children, it doesn't take a doctor, a scientist, an astrophysicist to figure out we don't have a human race. I talked to one of the most renowned global economists. His name is Dr. Muhammad L. Edian, and he's like, he's like E. F. Hutton. When he talks people listen, he's the E.F. Hutton of the financial and economic space. And he said, if we don't support families, if we continue to make it harder, on families to have children, we'll have fewer kids, which means we will have a diminished labor force down the road. And if we have a small labor force, we can't grow our economy. So you've seen this in China, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, where these low birth rates. And by the way, we have record low birth rates, but, you know, juxtapose that with Americans still want to have kids. They still want to have more kids, but it's just so hard to have kids. There's a stress and a strain. So you look at these countries in Asia where they're pouring billions into the economy and

billions to reverse the low birth rates, those trends because they're realizing, oh my word, if we continue to make it harder on families to have children, we can't grow our economy. So it's good for our economy. It's good for healthy families. Only in America do we have something called the happy gap where parents are disproportionately less happy than non-parents. And it's very, very much an American phenomenon that's traced back to the stress and strain of having children. It's very privatized to have kids in this country. It's totally on you, yet society, what society reaps the benefits of our investment into our children. And also for gender equality, you know, like the lack of quality and affordable child care, Dr. Josh, is the number one

barrier to women in the workforce. And it's not the 1950s anymore, just isn't. You can't get by with one income, more families work because they have to. And if we continue to pay mothers less than their worth, and there is the such thing, it's called the motherhood penalty where we're paid less, we're valued less and scrutinize more once we become mothers. It's like we're treated like this risk and liability. If we're continued to pay to be paid less and valued less and the motherhood penalty continues, those cycles of debt and poverty will continue. So for me, like childcare I've learned is kind of like you check three boxes by investing into our children, by investing in families. Those three boxes are we have a healthy economy if we have quality and affordable child care.

We have healthy families if we have quality affordable child care. And we have gender equality if we have quality and affordable child care. It's not just like the nice thing to do. It's mission critical for families, for our economy and for gender equality. It really is. So a few questions related to this and not to get into politics and policies, but trying to understand here. So whose responsibility is it financially to take care of, you know, to take care of kids? And my second part question is, what does quality look like?

Give me a very exact description of how many, you know, teacher or, you know, care workers for a parent or is that even what it is? Just walk me through a little bit of this. Well, I think to answer the first part of that question, exactly whose responsibility is it? Look, I don't think our federal government does anything efficiently. But they did solve this problem back in World War II called the Lanham Act, where all of our men were at war, the women had to infiltrate the labor force to keep the economy going. And they quickly realized, hey, we got to figure something out. Who's going to take care of the kids? And within weeks, they had this.

it was a federally funded universal child care system up and running. I do not think it, like, I do not think that we should look to the federal government to create any sort of program because they're terribly inefficient and they can't grant anything. But I do think that it is up to the federal government to invest in families. I think if we really want to get traction, local state governments, but corporations, corporations need to step up because they need to realize that not, not only are they going to get, not only are they going to invest in families and invest in our economy, they're going to get a real loyal employee because parents and that I believe the modern workforce right now

is like comprised 70 to 80 percent of parents. Parents are very loyal, productive, and efficient in the workforce when they feel that they're well supported. And this next generation of workers, Gen Z, overwhelmingly wants child care as their number one benefit overhelp benefits. I saw this. This was a study that came out not too long ago. It blew, blew me away because this next generation wants something totally different than we had, Dr. Josh. I mean, you've seen the reports that millennial dads are spending three times more time with their kids than their dads did. You know, it used to be, oh, I never changed a diaper and guys would brag about that. This next generation wants something totally different. And that's where corporate America needs

to step up. But they're getting a great employee, you know, If you can offer a child care stipend or you can have on-site child care, but there's creative things that you could do that that I've learned in my research, too. The African-American breastfeeding network out of Milwaukee, they're a nonprofit. They can't afford fancy swanky benefits, but she lets her employees set their own hours and bring their children to work. She measures the measurables. There's another company. It's an agency called Brains on Fire out of Greenville, South Carolina.

they have a program called, don't quote me on this, I think it's called Babies in Motion. And what it is, it's like a return to work after paternity leave or maternity leave program to help bridge that gap because it's so hard to leave your baby at home or at the daycare or with a nanny. And so what this program does is it allows the parent to bring their infant back to work when they would return from paternity or maternity leave until the baby is able to walk. and mobile. And what it does is it helps ease that tension and that back to work, just stress and strain and agony that a parent feels when they have to go back to work. I still get hives thinking about

returning to work, you know, after maternity leave. But it also creates a culture where everybody's invested in those kids. And we talk all the time about we've talked so much already in this conversation about interdependency and being my brother's keeper and investing in the next generation. So there's real creative ways that corporations can step up, but they need to listen to the people. The people wants this next generation wants something different. But also, like, you can do the right thing and support families. But it's also good for your bottom line because by implementing these family-friendly policies, you're going to get a real loyal, productive, and efficient worker.

They don't leave. Parents that feel taken care of and supported as not just a worker, but a parent. They are incredibly loyal. Yeah. Yeah, I can see the loyalty factor. I've also owned five businesses and, you know, one that's over $100 million. And I do know there's also major challenges. There are.

And costs and things associated with trying to set something up. But I've also noticed, as you said, I think as I have, you know, Gen X or Baby Boomer workers that work for me. We have, you know. I'm Gen X right here, by the way. Yeah, I'm 42. too. And so, you know, so yeah, I'm more of a Gen Xer. And I, and I've seen, too, that, you know, they care more about compensation. I have seen millennials in Gen Z. They care more about freedom and lifestyle and even culture at work and all kinds. And what you're talking about,

things like child care and the benefits. I mean, that's something that's, I think, they're definitely more aware of. So I do see the importance. And I, and I do think for a lot of organizations is something they can really capitalize on. I mean, you know, if I asked my dad who worked on telephone lines and, you know, for a majority of his career in Ohio and the cold winter, it's like, hey, why did you choose to work here? I mean, you know, his answer was, well, I want to provide for my family and security and just, you know, this, the things you know you'd hear. If I ask someone who, you know, anyone else, I'd be, you know, anyone else today, the answer is not, that's not the answer. If I ask a millennial gen Z, I mean, you're not.

going to hear something like that. It's a very, very different mentality. And I do think, to your point, organizations need to be aware of that and provide that. And I do have a few other, you know, I want to, I want to say, I do think the families that I see thrive the most, though, I think there's an element of, I'm going to take, it's in, you said this to a degree. It's, I'm going to take personal responsibility, though. I'm not going to put it on the government and say, hey, government or educational system or daycare. here's my kid, do a good job raising them, because that would just be the most naive thing of all time. There is a level of personal responsibility of, I know that I've got to do everything I can to get my child in a great situation. And before I go back to this, I do want to say, I also think

there's an element of materialism here, because poverty levels, if you look at quality of living, of somebody who is low income today what somebody would live in versus if we, go back 50 years, it's actually much higher. Right. And so I've definitely seen the data on the poverty and how actually, so I do want to point out that I think that some of it is are materialistic values and leaning more feminine as a culture compared to more masculine in the past of feeling pressured or not feeling pressure or feeling what's praised today.

I think that, you know, the working mom or being the working mom or being the boss babe or whatever. I think that is a little bit more. I'm just saying I think it's a little bit more praise today in what culture glorifies versus being a stay at home mom, I think is less glamorous today than maybe it was more praised 100 years ago. So I think there's a lot of those cultural issues too. I just wanted to mention too. And I think there is a level of again wanting to have more things because of culture says we should that maybe forces some women to do more more work than maybe in the past. I do agree with that to a point.

But if you look at wages, the last 30, 40 years, they have been stagnant. And for instance, childcare costs have gone up so much. It now costs in 34 states, Dr. Josh. It costs more to send your kid to daycare or child care than it does to send your kid to college at an in-state college for a year, which just goes to show you. Like, here's earnings have been stagnant. And our expenses have just gone through the roof. And yes, there's something to be said for.

we want more, you know, there's definitely a materialistic angle to all of this. But if you go back in the history, and look, I grew up in a very conservative Christian home, always lived with that tension of doesn't a real godly woman stay home and raise her kids. And so I realize, though, a lot of that is the generational weight and pressure that we're putting on ourselves. And also how things have kind of been twisted to tell women where their roles are and where they belong in society and home and work. And so I really, and you don't have to carry it all, ditch the mom guilt and find a better way forward in my book. I really dove into this from a historical perspective and from a, from a biblical perspective, the historical perspective really

kind of blew me out of the water because I thought, let's get back to that traditional nuclear family of the 50s and 60s, right? But that was actually the least traditional family that we had throughout American history. The most traditional family we had was the family that worked side by side. labor they co-produced. They parented together. They partnered. And it really wasn't until the 50s and 60s after the war where we started pushing men out of the home and we pushed women out of the workforce. And our message to men, we actually did a great disservice to men. We told them that your only job is to provide for this family. And if you can't, you're a failure. And we told women, if you have any ambition outside of the home, you're a menace. That a working woman is a disease. And so that was

really, yes, we were trying to create and carve out these two roles, but it kind of backfired on us because that's when we started pushing the men out of the home, right? And we, and you think about toxic masculinity and the messages that you have been raised with, are very generational, Dr. Josh, that you're a failure if you can't provide for your family. It wasn't like that a couple hundred years ago. I mean, where they worked side by side and even women dating back to medieval times would call themselves resourceful and hardworking. It wasn't until really the 50s and 60s that we started describing ourselves as nurturing. So how much of the tension is because it's supposed to be this way and how much of it is, oh, we were just kind of raised with these

generational norms and expectations. Well, I think the biggest thing that's changed and it's something you'd pointed out there is, is that you're doing things together versus apart, right? I mean, I think, you know, you look at the careers. I want to say that this is a stat I saw yours. ago, 120 years ago, 40% of careers were related to agriculture. Yes. And so it's like, you know, the, yeah, exactly. And so you see that, you know, the boys were going out with the dad and learning how to do whatever the dad was doing and the girls were going with the mom, learn how it was. And then there was also crossover with both. And so

there was a lot more doing things as a unit. And today, it's like, well, I'm going to drive here and I'm going to drive here and you're going to stay here and everybody is separate. And so I do think that, you know, when I think about one of the roots of the problem, it's something you shared. It's just, it's this level of separation that's taking place within the household. Yeah. That's important. And so, you know, so going back to this, in your, if you're giving your prescription or your recommendation for what does a good daycare or if it's not daycare, you can call it something else. Right. If you have that mom saying, I want to work and I want to provide. And of the dad saying, I want to work and I want to provide, what are the idea, and by the way,

you can give a hierarchy of a ranking order if that's also best. What are some of the solutions in ranking order that's the best for the kids? Yeah. And I do think, look, there's, you, and I apologize, I never got to point number two, the question that you had asked earlier about what is quality and affordable child care look like. And I will say this as someone who never put, I never put my kid in child care and daycare because I couldn't. I working in TV, I was either working the overnight shift or I was working two to midnight. And it just wasn't feasible for my schedule often on the weekends when I anchor GMA. I had to leave at three in the morning.

So I couldn't put my kids in daycare because I didn't have a traditional nine to five job. All right. So just take that with a grain of salt. So we had a nanny or we had a full-time babysitter. We eventually transitioned to a program called an Opaire program. you have a foreign exchange student living with you and, um, and is a year or one year program. I, I think, yes, you cited that that study about kids and daycare, but you can easily find other research that says, you know, um, the children of working parents, like the sons turn out to be

more supportive and better partners and better, more involved fathers and the daughters of working moms turn out to be more confident and they command more money and they they rise in the ranks in the workforce. So like you can look at the other side of that coin too and I don't want to demonize work. But I do want to say I think we're talking about two different things. Yes. I agree, but I'm just getting to the root of why we work and some of the tension that we feel with working. But I think the way that we can get quality childcare is we need to hire people that have credentials. And this is not a, it's not uncommon in other countries. And whether they're, they have teaching credentials or they've gone through some sort of certification program.

Again, kids are our future. Are they not? And I think that's something we can all agree on. Kids are our greatest natural resource. We need to invest in the future. Quality, affordable, childcare in other countries, like in Europe, they have what's called early. It's like an early education. It starts at ages two, like in France and the UK.

and it's highly subsidized and it's looked at as schooling. So all the cognitive development isn't just on the parent. And even stay at home parents send their kids to this early childhood development because it's seen as schooling and it's subsidized. And so that early cognitive development is not just on the parent because that's a huge stress and strain that, oh my gosh, everything I do for my kid is going to have to be privatized. So I think there are many more, there's a lot more than we can do here in America to make sure that the child care that we have isn't just affordable, but it is quality because at the end of the day, these kids are our greatest natural resource. They are the future of our country. We need to invest in them. And the responsibility

shouldn't just be on the parent to quote unquote raise the kid because our entire society, Dr. Josh, is going to benefit from the investment into our children. Our kids will be part of the workforce one day that will help to grow. our economy. And so this, I do think that there is a level of, I'm not saying government is responsible for all of it, but I do think that if we want to say that we're family first in this country, we need to step it up. And one way we can step up is through our social policies. Another way we can step it up is just our attitudes, our attitudes in this country about families and about kids. I can't tell you how many times with the child care issue. The number one thing

I hear, they're not my kids, so they're not my problem. That's the number one pushback and retort that I hear in response to child care. And then I would say, well, it's actually good for the economy. It's good for healthy families and it's good for gender equality. So it's something that we can all, we should all agree on. Yeah. And I'm very much for, well, I'm very much for less government, generally speaking, but I am also very much for incentivizing good behavior and things that are good for society as a whole, as you're saying. And so I think your points here are incredibly valid and good. You know, I think one of the things that I saw as I was doing, again, some of this research on as we looked at the daycare, you know, one of the ideal factors is,

is, you know, having somebody that's credentialed and, you know, less student per. So if you've got like 15 per one, that's not near as good as obviously one to seven, right? You know, when a child's getting a lot more one-on-one interaction. And I do think, again, going back to this, so I think, anything we can do to have family and friends, just build community. I didn't interview yesterday with somebody who was a researcher for 15 years. He was a research scientist for Gallup that does all the polls and surveys. And so this is what he's looked at all the researches whole career. And he said for somebody to actually be truly fulfilled in their life and happy, I mean, the most important thing was community. I mean, it was, I mean, it was sort of the anchor of all

of this stuff. And so if you don't have it, it's everything suffers. you suffer, your kids suffer. So that community component that you start off talking about is so important. You know, one of the things I know that you, I think referenced at one point was, you know, you had sort of a, I think I'm going to call it a, you know, whether it's a crisis or a come to Jesus moment or something like that, sort of in your life with having all of these responsibilities and things going on. Well, share a little bit more about sort of that, you know, that experience and sort of and how you got to where you are now. Yeah. So I had, back in 2018, like at the top of my broadcasting career, I pretty much had an identity crisis. Well, first of all, I was burnout as a working mom. And I felt like I got to the pinnacle. And, you know, it's like, what good is it to gain the world, but lose your soul in the process? And I felt a little bit like that. And my choices weren't necessarily aligning, you know, with my values. And so I really felt that I was supposed to step away at the height of my career, which

sounded crazy, but I really felt like God was nudging me to just, like, trust him. And to, like, I felt like he was calling me out of a season where I had become so addicted to the spotlight and the achievement and the accomplishment, which I think is I had to learn. There's nothing, like, it's okay to love what you do, but don't be defined by it. And I realized, after I walked away, I, I, so this was 2018, and I went to my bosses at ABC, and I said, I just can't do this anymore. I was working weird hours and I had Mondays and Tuesdays off. I was working every weekend, wasn't seeing my husband or kids.

And so I just wanted to get my life back. I wanted to work Monday through Friday. And so I said, can I just be a general correspondent? So I went from Good Morning America co-anchor weekends and co-hosted the VEO to general correspondent. That's like, that's like demoting yourself from head coach to like, you know, the quarterbacks coach, you know, or like, you know, the grad assistant. So, but I really felt like I was supposed to do that.

And in that moment, I realized I had tied so much of my identity to what I did. And it was a real painful time for me because I was a little angry at God for, first of all, calling me out and telling me I needed to step away from these positions. I was like, why would you lead me to this, to the top only to have me walk away from it? And so I had to really like figure out who I was outside of what I did. And the pendulum swung really far. You know, like the pendulum has swung real far for me, like, as just an all-in, you know, working mom, just I'm going to stay-at-home mom. And I feel like it's starting to find its equilibrium in balance right now. But I really had to learn that my identity shouldn't be in anything outside of, you know, my faith in Jesus. And

whether that's motherhood. I think so many of us, we put so much of our identity into motherhood and being a mother and feeling needed. We have to feel needed. And then when the kids leave, we don't know who we are. And like, my kids are my world, but they're not my, identity. My job means so much to me. The work that I do for working moms means so much to me, but it's not my identity. And I think if we put our identity in anything that can change, we're bound to be rocked. So that was a lesson that I had to learn and then relearn when the pandemic hit because, you know, after I demoted myself about a little over a year later, my contract was up for renewal and ABC chose not to resign me. And I had to figure out,

what was next? You know, do I stay in TV, which is kind of the safe choice? You know, it's what I'd been doing for over 20 years. It was the comfortable and expected choice. Or do I go for this thing over here? Because I had long had it on my heart to advocate for mothers in the workspace and advocate for motherhood in general. I just didn't know what that was going to look like. And so I say, you know, sometimes we have to be pushed onto our path through pain. I never anticipated losing a job, but it forced me to figure it out, forced me to figure out those next steps. And so I decided to form Carrie. That was in the moment I decided, I was like, God, I don't know what it's going to look like, but I know that I really want to use my voice and be an advocate for motherhood to make sure that

motherhood is celebrated instead of penalized and scrutinized in this country. I want to make sure that being a working mom works. I want to advocate for mothers in the workplace because I know too well what it feels like what it's like to be a mother and discriminated against because of that. I'm not I'm not hired as often. I'm paid less. I'm passed over on promotions. I'm scrutinized because I'm a mom. When in reality, I mean, and you're, you understand the science. Like there's a lot of science that happens to mothers from our capacity and efficiency and our empathy. All of those grow scientifically. Even, even parents in general, we grow in a lot of capabilities because of parenthood, not in spite of. And so I just was like, okay, I just need to do something.

I didn't know what it's going to look like, but I launched Carrie out of my home. Hey, what is Carrie? Because obviously you've mentioned a couple of times. What is it exactly? So I founded Carrie, Carrie Media. It's like we want to help carry the burdens of working moms because they're carrying so much. And so we provide low lessening content. We advocate for working moms through that content. We're also doing a lot in the B2B space. advocacy work working with companies to make sure that mothers are hired and retained and supported. And we're trying to show that, like, if you want a top-notch employee look no further than a mother or a parent. So we're really trying to do a lot of advocacy work in the B2B space that the consumer doesn't see.

But, you know, forward-facing, we provide low-lesening content for working moms who are carrying so much. We want to help take the burden off of them. I love that. It's so powerful. So powerful. One of the things that I've heard from, because I've had this, I mean, now that I've got, you know, now that I have kids and we're being very conscious, this first off, it's just crazy. I mean, like, Chelsea and I are joking around, but we're not joking right now with another baby on the way that it's what we're like, well, you know, as soon as, as soon as, you know, conception happens, we need to, you know, get them in line to get in the, you know, preschool we want them to get into because it's so hard in Nashville, Tennessee now. I mean, it's unbelievable.

I'm like, I'm going through the most rigorous interview I've ever been through for, you know, and references and everything else to see if we can get her into this. It's this Christian school we love. And the teachers are just so kind and so great. But, you know, what are your thoughts right now on, and feel free to say anything, you know, anything you want here. But what are your thoughts on right now in terms of like, now I think about, now, you know, daycare is one thing. It's happening less often, but it's still happening there when we talk about values. Because something I've heard you continually say, at least, well, several times you brought up

the word values and how values are really important to you and your family. You've talked about them in relation to your faith. Talk to me about what, like, what are parents to do today when they look at sending their kids to a public school? By the way, so I went to a Christian school when I was younger, but then I went to a public school just in Ohio. And it was a very different culture. I mean, I went from teachers that, I mean, they really, like, I don't want to say they didn't care in public, but they really care, like, more in private.

Like, my teachers were like, again, it was just, they cared more. I'll just say that. Well, also, the student teacher ratio was a lot smaller, too. You know what I mean? You go to a small Christian school or private school. You're absolutely right. And that was there, too. But the values are different today.

Like, when I went to school, like, they didn't have, like, gun detectors going. Like there wasn't metal detectors. Like we didn't have that. And then what the curriculum was, now my parents complained about them teaching us certain things regarding evolution. But outside of that, it was like, okay, we're just not getting political in school. Well, today it's very different. What are your thoughts right now on the current educational system, private versus public? I know that this is a very broad question.

No, I get it. But what are parents to do if they're sort of asking that question of, what do I do? because obviously this one, it can be incredibly expensive to go to a private school. What are your thoughts there? Well, my kids are all in public schools, but public schools in the south are a lot different than the public schools in the Northeast where they were going. And I'm the actual inverse of you. I went to public schools until high school, and then I went to a small Christian school for

high school. So I've seen all types of curriculum, and I've experienced it not just as a student, but as a parent, too. And I think, like, I grew up in a very sheltered home. I mean, I remember I'm still scarred and traumatized, Josh, from getting removed from sex ed class in junior high at the public school. I remember kids coming up and mocking me and making fun of me. I mean, I couldn't go trick-or-treating on Halloween because it was the devil's holiday. And, like, we had to dress so modestly. My parents were so strict.

I think, look, our kids are going to experience culture and experience. experience the world, whether we want them to or not. And I think it's so important, whether your kids are in Christian schools or you choose to send them to public schools. I mean, you can, I know people on both sides of the debate. For me, I'm like, do what's best for your kid, okay? Considering the, the school district and what you, also what you can afford, because it's easy to say, I'm going to send my kid to a private school or a Christian school. Well, that's a choice, a financial choice that a lot of parents can't afford. So I think the greatest advice that I've gotten, and it's from Sissy Goff, who is based there at Nashville, and she just says, you know,

whatever the conversation is, be very, like, make sure that your kids hear you in the conversation first instead of somebody else. And so I'm a big proponent of turning everything into a conversation. So, you know, if your kids are in public school and they're teaching a certain curriculum, talk about it with your kids. Ask them what they think about it. And because they're going to hear this one way or another, they cannot live in a bubble and an echo chamber for their entire life. So arm them with what they need to know. Your kids need to be ready to explain for the hope that is within them, to be ready to explain what they believe and why they believe it. So use it as a conversation to talk about what you believe as a family, what you're going to be hearing and inundated from the world and why we believe what we believe.

Instead of just removing them from the situation and not arming them and equipping them with a retort or critical thinking, like they need to develop critical thinking skills too because if you shelter your kids too much and I say this as a kid who is pretty freaking sheltered growing up, you know, I was going to learn. it one way or the other, I would have rather heard it from my parents. And now with my kids, even when it comes to the sex talk or anything, I want them to have my voice and my husband's voice in their head when they're thinking about it. Not somebody else's. I want to be the one that talks to them about it. Talk, your kids are hearing so much and they can handle so much more than we think they can. So don't be afraid to have those conversations with them. And just keep it open-ended, ask them their thoughts about it. They will kind of guide the conversation and stick to the facts. Yeah. Yeah, I think this is great advice. And by the way, I know so many people

have gone to public schools, homeschool, and private and Christian and Catholic and a number. And like anything, I've seen people from, you know, from private Christian go off and just do terrible things and people from public, I mean, it's, you know, just do some incredibly virtuous things. And part of it is because they got tested more and went through more trials and tribulations in, you know, in the school they were in. And so, but, but I do, I do think that, again, school is a little different today. And I do think that even more consciously as you're ashamed, parents have to be involved. You, you can't leave teaching your kid up to the school or even the church alone. You've got to be hands on. And this goes back to, I think, sort of a theme of our entire conversation is that is,

you can't be separate. Like families need to be doing these things, having these conversations together. And that's the key across the board. And one thing I'll suggest to you that has been suggested to me. And I have three children or my husband and I have three children. I have a 16 year old daughter who's in 10th grade. And then I have an eighth grade son who's in who's 14. And then I have a fourth grade son. So I have who's nine years old. So three kids. One of the best things you can do for your kid is to make sure that there are other adults or teens. You know, if they're younger, like somebody from a youth group or a mentor that they can, they can, who they respect, right?

But it's not you because, Josh, you could tell them the same thing. Seven times, seven different ways upside down. They're going to hear it once from somebody else that's not you that they trust. And they're going to be like, mom, I can't believe what Chelsea told me at youth group, my youth group leader. And I'm like, I've been telling you that for three months. Yeah. Make sure do your, you do not have to carry it all as a parent. Make sure that there are people in their life that can speak life into them that will not be dismissive of your parenting, um, or a diminishing of the way you're raising your kids, but are actually helping to support and

foster that growth. We had a young, um, a young man, um, whom my husband coaches. So my husband also coaches his high school and youth basketball. And this kid graduated from high school a couple years ago. And my husband and I just both happened to be out of town for work the same week. And so we hired this young man. He's in his early 20s to watch our boys because my daughter, she's 16. She's like on her own. She can do her own thing. But to watch our boys pick him up from school, speak life into them. He's also a youth group leader. They worship this kid. Anything this. And we know he's a good kid. and he's not going to disrupt our parenting. He's not going to, there's not going to be any conflict with our parenting.

We know he's almost an extension of us. And so we're like, hey, Amari, can you tell the boys this? You know, can you encourage the boys in this way? Because coming from somebody that they love and respect as a mentor or another adult in their life, they're going to listen to that, but they won't necessarily listen to the parent. That's just how kids are. So find good people that can help raise your kid, that can help speak life into them, right? that's one of the greatest gifts that you can give yourself and your kids.

I think it's incredible advice. And I look at my own upbringing. I was so blessed to have. We had this couple who actually one, they played football in Kentucky and his wife played basketball. And they taught me how to work out and be fit. But they also had a really, really high character taught me about sort of being an entrepreneur and a number of things too. And I was friends with them from throughout high school and college and beyond.

And so that was something strategically I can look back on that my parents did as well. And this goes back to this Dunbar law. Like we talked about the thing, like you become the five people you spend the most time with. But Dunbar's law actually truly says, no, you just become like, it's not just the five people. There's other rungs. And so you become most like your parents. But then those other people you spend time with and those other people, just those different rings of that kind of continue. So anyways, I think that's just a, that I'm going to take that to heart even more so now.

And I really appreciate that piece of advice. It's all been advice. Like the stuff that I'm sharing with you is what's been shared with me. So it's tried and trusted. It's nothing original that I thought of. It was just great advice that was given to me that I've implemented and has like, it's gone a long way. That's awesome.

You know, I had a few other questions I wanted to ask you before we go here. And one of those would be, you know, you've had such a successful career. You've interviewed some amazing people. I was going through a list here of, you know, Tiger Woods, Bob Iger, you know, the president. just a number, you've interviewed a lot of people. And have you ever had any moments in your career where you felt maybe a sense of self-doubt or imposter syndrome or anything like that that you felt like, hey, you know, I'm afraid of being exposed? And just any sort of self-doubt or imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome affects like the most successful people. It affects almost everyone

who might be at the top of their game. I have felt unqualified. on a number of occasions. I feel unqualified on a daily basis. I was actually just talking to a friend who is, she's a big name in the culinary space. She's like, I still feel unqualified every single day. And imposter syndrome hits the most successful. I remember when I worked at GMA and I was talking to Michael Strayhan and George Stephanopoulos. And I was like, do you guys still get nervous like before the show? Because I know I do. And they're like, oh, yeah, I get nervous before interviews. And I think just normalizing that it's kind of normal to feel unqualified. The fear of, so much of that is traced back to our fear of failure.

We don't want to look like a fraud. We don't want to fail. But the fear of failure is, so it's the most common fear that we experience as humans. And yet it can feel so isolating because we're like, am I the only one here who feels like a fraud? What's going to happen if people find out about me? And it can be so isolating. But in reality, it's like there's a common denominator with almost all of us.

that we're all fearful of failing and we carry this feeling of being unqualified throughout our lives and it doesn't disappear but I've just learned to accept that it's kind of normal. Everybody feels it and you just got to push into it. And I think too, if you don't feel some sort of nerve or anxiety, especially in like a performance based business, then there's something wrong with you because you can channel it into adrenaline and energy. That's what I would do before big interviews or a show. I would just like learn to channel it. And yeah, I think there's something wrong with you if you don't feel those feelings. There really is. It's very normal. So don't feel like you're alone. Don't isolate yourself because it is the most common

fear that we have as humans is that of failing and feeling like we're a fraud. That's so good. You know, one of the things I noticed, and I don't run my clinic anymore, but the first five six years when I did. One of the things I think I was most surprised by as a clinician is how many, it was a family practice had a lot of young moms coming in. And, you know, when I would sit down with them and kind of go over their patient history or look through things, the common thing was the number one thing I heard. And I just remember this kind of repeatedly in my head is, hey, how do you feel the word overwhelmed? I mean, that was a word I was constantly hearing from moms. And I think there's a level of maybe feeling of falling shore or not,

not being able to do everything, right? Maybe a sense of even guilt with it. What is your advice for moms who are feeling like they are falling short? They're overwhelmed. They're in that position. I think it goes back to that earlier conversation we were having earlier in the conversation where we were talking about trying to carry it all, trying to do it all. And this is this expectation that we have to do it all.

We can't ask for help or we're weak or we're a failure. And it's just an unrealistic expectation. however we we applaud it we applaud the mommy martyr status we applaud the mom who is doing it all and has a smile on her face and has her hair done and lipstick on you know we applaud that but it's not good for our health our long-term health emotional physical um spiritual all of it so i would just say look it's it's normal that you would feel like that because that's what the expectation is in our society, but it's an unrealistic, unhealthy expectation to try to carry it all. And the first thing that you can do is decide that you're not going to carry it all anymore and ask for help and find

your village and find your people where you can be raw and vulnerable. Ask for help. Drop those balls on a daily basis. Give yourself a lot of grace and just say, I'm not going to carry it all anymore because it is not good for me and I'm going to ask for help. That's great. That's so good. You know, one of the things I know you've been an advocate for is living a called, you know, living called is one thing I know you've said. And that's pursuing purposeful work aligned with your values. Talk to me a little bit about that, living called. Yeah, I think, well, I think we grow up thinking we have to do one thing for the rest of our lives, right? What am I called to? What's my calling? And we hear that a lot of the faith space, too. But also, you know, in the mainstream space, what's your name? What do you do? And we play so much. emphasis on what we do and place so much of our identity into that as well. And, you know,

one thing that I learned after getting called out in 2018 when I stepped away from those prestigious positions and couldn't identify myself as, hi, I'm Paula. I'm the anchor of GMA and Coast of the View. Got really revealed to me that he's going to call me. He's going to call us to different things in different seasons. So I can't hold tight to it. And that's not my. identity and I have to remember what I'm doing and who I'm doing it for, right? So my gifts and talents may not change. My gifts and talents and we all have unique talents and gifts and gifts. You know, your unique talents and gifts haven't changed since you left your private practice. You still have those unique gifts and talents. You're just using those maybe on a different branch. So my gifts and

talents of curiosity and asking questions and advocating for people and just getting to the bottom of the issue, those worked great and served me well in the broadcasting space, but they're also served me well as an entrepreneur and founder and advocate for working moms. And so God really just revealed that he's going to call us to different things in different seasons. And that gave me permission to A, not tie my worth or worth to my work, my, you know, my calling to just my career or my value with my vocation. So I no longer tie any of that to the doing, right? So for me, it's almost an active obedience. I know in this season, God has called me to really champion. be in mothershood and working moms and families and I'm going to do that with all my heart.

He may call me to something different. So I just say give yourself permission to try new things and new seasons. Your value is not your vocation. Look at your life as chapters and seasons instead of, I got to figure it all out. I got to figure out the next 20 years. No, what is, what are you being called to in this season? And sometimes it's that sometimes it's just the, obedience. We have to go for what we're called. And it might not be the end game like, oh, this was a successful business that I was being called to or maybe it was a failure. Often it's just the active obedience. I'm following this call. And you'll know when you're being called to something, you know, you'll feel that peace. You'll also feel the fear. Like, you know, I'm scared to go for it, but I have a

piece that I'm supposed to go for it. But you'll always be using your gifts and talents. Those won't change. But the way you go about using those gifts and talents will change in each season and in each chapter that you're called to. That's so good. So earlier, actually, you answered a question that I asked a lot of people on here, but I want to ask in a little bit of a different way. What's one of the best pieces of advice you've ever received that really changed your trajectory? After you got that piece of advice, you just really saw a shift in your life. Well, I mentioned earlier the advice that I got about mothering and parenting about, you know, just being able to drop a ball and dropping the perfectionism. That was great advice. I also think, this might sound a little trite, too, but some of the best

advice that I got, I felt like was God inspired through a season of insecurity. You know, when I had graduated from college, I had gone to school for broadcast communications, but I, and my professors and my peers were encouraging me to pursue an on-camera career, but I was so insecure. I felt unqualified. And I didn't want to put myself out there because I didn't want to look like a fool, right? It's that fear of failure. And so I was working in Columbus, Ohio, selling radio. I was working at Sunny 95. So I did a lot of weird things. I'd worked in video production. I worked at Arby's. I was cleaning apartments. I was just like hustling trying to figure out what I wanted to do after college. And I got a job.

in radio sales. I was making great money. I was young. In my mid-20s, I had just gotten married. And then 9-11 happened. And it was in that moment where I finally felt like I was glued to the coverage, this horrific unthinkable tragedy and yet the storytelling and how our country banded together. And I finally felt like God say to me in that moment, okay, when I call you, I'll equip you. and that dream that everyone else had for you, you know, I finally felt like I accepted that dream for myself. I had to push through my security, my insecurity rather. And so I quit my job. It was a lucrative radio sales job and I just handed my resume out. I mean, I was like substitute teaching in the process, you know, just to like pace the bills, but handed my resume out, got a PA job in Dayton, Ohio at

KEF, WKEF and WRGT making seven bucks an hour. And I just really, really clung to that verse, I felt like God, and it's kind of been my vocational verse for the last, gosh, 25 years, which is Joshua 1-9, have I not commanded you to be strong and courageous, don't be afraid, don't be discouraged for the Lord your God's with you everywhere you go. And that just gave me a lot of, it gave me the courage I didn't have to press into my fear because, A, we're commanded to, you know, have I not commanded you to be strong and courageous? And it also validated that I was going to feel scared and I was going to feel discouraged because it says, don't be afraid, don't be discouraged. Like, God's not commanding us to not feel that way if we aren't

feeling that way. And then God promised that he would be there on the other side of it. And so I know that might sound a little weird, but that is the best, I feel like that's the best vocational, the best vocational advice slash mantra slash like foundational principle that I have. have that I have clung to the last 25 years of my life is, have I not commanded you to be strong and be courageous? Don't be afraid. Don't be discouraged. Because God will be there in it, through it at the end of it. And we often have to push into our, we almost always have to push into our fear. It doesn't go away. But I learned to reconcile a peace and a fear at the same time that I can have a peace about going for something. You mentioned earlier about being called to something.

I can have a peace about it. But I can still be scared as hell about it, you know? And those often, those are never, I've learned they're not mutually exclusive. Like they're almost always go hand in hand. And so I've clung to that for the last 25 years and it has served me well. I think it's beautiful and powerful advice from the Lord to you. And I think that, yeah, you know, I think that there's this conception around maybe this is societal or cultural today that, you know, you don't choose your virtue or your or or even certain feelings they choose you in terms of hey I'm either courageous or I'm not or I'm either strong or weak or I'm you know but God is commanding

you to like be happy it's like be joyful well I'm either joyful or not if I had something bad happened to me versus no I'm I'm going to choose to be joyful whether something good or bad happens a day so I think part of what I also walked away there with is this like from that versus there's a level of ownership here God saying be strong and courageous, move forward whether you feel fearful or peace or whatever it is. And I love that. What is your last question? What is your best piece of advice for anybody? You've shared them. You've got a lot of great downloads from people. What's your best advice for? And specifically that group right now that I know that you are looking to nurture and add value to and help excel

those moms out there. Yeah, I would just tell moms out there. I would first of all encourage them to know their worth and don't let society tell you that you're a risk and a liability. Know that you have grown and be empowered that you have grown, whether the baby grew in your heart or your tummy, that you've grown in so many core capabilities, efficiency, empathy, courage, vision, leadership, because of motherhood, not in spite of it. Don't let anyone ever penalize you or scrutinize you because you're a mother, because you have grown in so many different areas. And I would just say, don't try to carry it all. Just, just don't. It's not going to be good for you. You do not have to be perfect. And surround

yourself with a community, surround yourself with a village that you can be real with. But it all starts with you in owning that and knowing I don't, I can drop the perfectionism. I can ask for help. And I think if you do that, if you decide to that you're not going to carry it all, you're going find your people, you're going to find a village. I think it's going to change the game for you. I know it's allowed me to kind of ditch the guilt, all the mom guilt to find a better way forward, really find these rhythms and working and mothering. But it starts with us asking for help, finding our community, and deciding that we're not going to carry it all anymore. I love it. It's great advice. Great advice. Thank you. I would encourage everybody to check out

Paula's, she's got a new children's book, right? You got a new children's book out. It's called, yeah, yeah, hold that up here for everybody watching on YouTube. Yes. Who do you want to be when you grow up? And I love this because I can even tell from the title, this is tied to identity as well for kids. She's the little girl, the main character, is drawing it. And she has covered over the what and the do with who and be because so often kids are asked

and we're asked as adults, what do you want to do? So this is who do you want to be? And it traces a little girl's journey. Her name is Lina. It's career day at school. She's stressed out because she's like, I don't know what I want, you know, I don't know what I want to do when I grow up. And she learns along the way that the kind of person she wants to be, who she was created to be, her talents and gifts are much more important than what she's going to do because what she's going to do is going to change.

But who she was uniquely created to be won't. I love that. I'm going to get that for our three and a half year old Arwin. She'll love it. All of our, all of my author proceeds, go to the Boys and Girls Club. In perpetuity, I'm a trustee. Again, it's like our kids are they our future or aren't they? And so I've been involved with the boys and girls clubs for about 10 years. And I wanted to donate all my proceeds to the BGCA in perpetuity for this book. I love that. Another good reason. And you can find this book on Amazon,

anywhere. Bookstores nationwide, go to Amazon.com. Just search Paula Ferris. And who do you want to be when you grow up? And also, Paula has a new podcast. It's called The Paula Fahler. They're a show, so it should be easy to find their. Super original there. Yeah. Well, it's, you know, I'm, I did two other podcasts. I did one at ABC called Journeys of Faith and I did one called Faith and Colling until March of this year.

And this one's different. It's, it's available on YouTube and anywhere you listen. But it's more, it's a more mainstream, inspirational, like we're, we're having conversations about real life, love, life, loss, all of it, keeping it real. But we've had wonderful conversations with Whoopi Goldberg and comedian Trey Kennedy and Jesse Palmer from The Bachelor and Jenna Coocher, who's a mom of two and entrepreneur with the number one marketing podcast. So just having real honest conversations with them, you know, about life, keeping it real. So I love to ask questions. And the conversations have been really, really great and helping people live their best life.

So that's what I want to do is encourage people to help them live their best life. It's so great. Well, I love what you've been doing to help moms carry the load and or help lighten the load for them. And I just, yeah, I love the mission. And I want to say, thanks so much for coming on. It's been a joy even though I know you're a Michigan fan. I've enjoyed, you know, the conversation so much. Thank you.

I appreciate it. It's been really great. And we'll see what happens that last Saturday of the regular season between Michigan and Ohio State. So we will. Made the best team win. I'm excited. You know, both teams are great again, so it's a lot of fun. It is really fun.

Thank you, Dr. Josh. Yeah. Hey, thanks so much, Paula. Well, again, hey, thanks everybody for listening to this episode of the Growth Lab podcast, where each and every week we cover the science behind how to grow. And, hey, if you're watching on YouTube, please let me know. What is your biggest takeaway from the wisdom that Paula shared with us today? We'd love to hear, again, any of your feedback, any of your take.

And if there was a gem of wisdom, I know that I had a lot. We'd love to hear from you on that as well. And if you're not subscribed, hey, make sure to subscribe to the podcast. We've got a lot more great interviews coming out here soon. And thanks again to our special guest, Paula Ferris. Be blessed everybody.