The Dr Louise Newson Podcast - 01 - Gina Miller on speaking up, the gender investment gap and why women need to stop saying sorry

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

Content advisory: This episode contains themes that some listeners may find distressing.Kicking off a brand-new series, Dr Louise Newson is joined by Gina Miller, founder of MoneyShe, co-founder of SCM Direct, who famously took the government to court over Brexit, for a powerful conversation about standing up for yourself, supporting others, and the financial struggles faced by menopausal women.Gina shares what fuels her determination, the values instilled in her from childhood, and her experiences challenging injustice – whether in politics, finance, or education. She speaks candidly about the backlash she has faced, the importance of resilience, and why she refuses to stay silent in the face of inequality.Together, Louise and Gina explore why women are often judged more harshly than men, how curiosity and questioning the status quo are essential for progress, and why empowering women is crucial for a fairer society. This inspiring discussion highlights the need for systemic change and the importance of speaking out—even when it’s difficult.To learn more about the research and insights on closing the gender investment and pension gap discussed in this episode, visit: MoneyShe.com Available to watch on YouTube  LET'S CONNECT  Website: Dr Louise Newson Instagram: @drlouisenewsonpodcastLinkedIn: Louise Newson | LinkedIn Spotify: The Dr Louise Newson Podcast | Podcast on Spotify YouTube: Dr Louise Newson - YouTube Email [e-mail] for any media enquiries LEARN MORE Sign up to my Menopause Masterclass Here Sign up for my Confidence in Menopause Class Here Sign up to my Upcoming Webinar Here DISCLAIMER: The information provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health providers with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Dr Louise Newson or the Newson Health Group.  

Today on the podcast, I've got Gina Miller, who is founder of Money Shee and co-founder of SCM Direct. We've had the most amazing conversation about how to be kind, how to stand up for yourself, how to look after others, and about the financial crisis, actually, of being a menopausal woman. So, Gina, I'm really excited to have you here, actually in the podcast studio as well. There's so much I want to talk about, but we're going to have to try and calm it down, because I'm really excited. There's so much that you've done in your life, which is incredible, and you've got so much more that you're doing.

Oh, yes, absolutely. Not finish yet. No, absolutely. But one of the first things I want to hear about, really, is what keeps you going? What keeps that far in the belly? What gets you getting up in the morning? It's interesting because I always sort of reflect and think,

is it nature and nurture, and I've come to the conclusion there's a bit of both. I was always this really disagreeable three-year-old at school who, you know, never took anything from the teachers, always why, why, why. So it's always been part, I think, of my personality. But I also think it's the way I was brought up. You know, I was very fortunate to grow up with the knees of parents who instilled in me. My father was an activist lawyer, which now I think we should celebrate, not denigrate.

And he always said that, you know, we have, you never know what's going to happen down the road. So we help everyone anywhere and you speak up for others. And that was something he told us when we were very little children. So, you know, it's just having that. My mother was an eco-warrier, I think, before the term was even invented. And she was just, everything has to be saved and looked after. Everything is precious. She was also a botanist.

And so the love of nature and protecting and, you know, everything that's around us, both physically, mentally, but emotionally and from an environmental point of view, are things that I grew up with. And that's why I think, you know, We underestimate, I think we underestimate motherhood and parenthood because it's what shapes a human being for the rest of their lives and it's so precious. But it was a bit of both. And yeah, I've never been quiet. I never intend to be.

But also, I never want to live with regret. I don't want to look back and regret not having done something or said something and thought, oh, what if I? So my view is that what are the chances of things going wrong? it's about 50-50. Yes, no, maybe. It's the answer you'll get back. So why not ask? Why not speak up?

So I've got a very positive way. And I don't really care what people think of me. I, from a very young age, I decided that I was going to, you know, other people's opinion, we're never going to bring me down. That's really good, though, isn't it? But we spent so much of our time wanting to be liked,

and I think it's one of the things that my two things when it comes to women, and I speak to lots of young women and groups, I say, don't ever knock on a door and say sorry as a first word because that's almost the thing we do. We always say sorry and I don't know what we're apologising for. So don't say sorry is your first word when you walk into a room or knock on a door and try not to live in regret. Yeah. It's so important, isn't it? Because I think so often things are misinterpreted

and people try and find fault in people a lot more than finding good things. Well, especially if you're a woman. Yeah, it is, isn't it? Yeah. I think it's really interesting because I get a bit of backlash for what I do sometimes. And I think what would it be like if I was a man? What would have happened? And like I don't want to be a man. I'm quite happy being a woman. But I do think and I sort of also, you know, your work in the past would it have been more respectful if you were a man? I think I've been told, you know, I started, I'm on my fifth business right now. But I was told, you know, I started in the city in 1996. And so often I've encountered, you know, if only you had a male, your children. You're chief exec or if you did this or if you were a man, you would have been more successful. I'm just thinking, no. You know, if from, you know, applying for loans or venture capital, anything, everywhere you turn, it's, oh, if only you had a man with you, you came into the meeting with a man.

And I still get, and women still get that today. Yeah. They're 30 years on. And I think it's really disappointing. Yeah. Because it's not just about equality and fairness. It's about missed opportunities for us wider as a society. we all would benefit if we pursued a much more equalist and fair approach to looking after each other

and supporting each other. I totally agree. And, you know, one of the things that keeps me going is the injustice to women actually, the women not being listened to, the women not being believed, and the women that don't have a choice. And so I guess, like you, I am quite outspoken because I feel like I'm speaking on behalf of others that are suffering. Absolutely.

And that's what I find can be misinterpreted that people think it's because I've got my own agenda. My agenda is to help people. It's incredible over the years when people said, so what do you get out of this? And there's sort of disbelief that, well, nothing. Oh, I get asked to, you know, I've brought in texts into EU directives that's completely changed the wave, saving, investing fees are disclosed. And everyone says, so what do you get out of it? I got nothing out of it. And then who paid for it?

Well, I use, I'm fortunate enough to be successful in my business life. And I use my money to give back to the society that's enabled my success. And I can't think of anything greater to do with it. But it's always, so I can't, what, what, you're not getting anything? And there's a suspicion around that. How can you possibly be doing this because you think it's right? Yeah. But rather than saying, isn't that wonderful that you're giving back?

It's something really an interesting cultural dilemma here in the UK. Yes. Because actually, when I've worked in Australia or Europe or South America, when my first daughter was born, I really became a lioness through her because she was starved of oxygen at birth. And at that time, there was no statements or provision in schools. So my first fight was actually getting text in the 1996 Education Act, which meant that all schools had to then provide special needs and governors had to have that. So that was my first fight. Because I felt it was so wrong. Why wasn't every single child having that?

You got it if you had money and you could go and see a specialist and a doctor. But ordinary, you know, every single child deserves. Every parent deserves to have that access to support in schools. So unfortunately things are going backwards. But, you know, that was my first fight. And it was, I remember on the back of that work and that campaigning, I then came across things like, you know, out of the first fight. date formula being sent to third world countries or you know the the drinks that were things like

baby ribina don't if you remember I had so much sugar in it was rotting all tea so I started the spin-off of my advocacy tends to come from my own experiences and what I know and understand emotionally and intellectually and so I started doing and people were like but why are you doing that I was like because I've just come across something that's wrong yeah it's that simple Yeah, I totally get it. I mean, I'm a very honest person. Like I've just been brought up never to lie because you always get to find out. It's not worth it. God, carrying a lie is exhausting. Oh, it's terrible. It's so hard. So I am really honest, but I am also like that annoying two-year-old. But why, but why, but why? And having an acquisitive brain is not a bad thing. Oh, curiosity is one of the best things in the world. But there's a lot of people that don't have any curiosity. And especially in my profession, medicine, lots of people, what they're told, you know, when they're called, you know, when they're called a, you know, when they're called a. is what they'll continue practicing.

They don't have this professional curiosity. So when you've got someone challenging, ask you, but why does this happen? Why is this? Then they get very scared almost and they find it very awkward with some people are asking questions. I go back to culture and also in education

because in education we're sort of told that this is the way we're putting in the boxes. And I think there's a lot of changes that need to happen. And one of the biggest for me is education. we have an education system that doesn't really promote curiosity and asking questions and not thinking outside of the box, you know. And as we move into the age of everything being available online,

actually those skills become even more important. And I think, you know, our entire education system needs to be rethought. Because what we're done, what happens to children is we have such curiosity, but then it's educated out of them when they enter the educational system. And that to me is a failing. So we have to encourage curiosity and debate and free speech and all the things that we're talking, which I think are incredible because in a world it becomes more chaotic and more uncertain. You need those skills more than ever. So I think we are at a point where we really, really have to think about encouraging those skills in individuals and in young people.

So the negativity that you've had and the backlash that you've had in my way of thinking has actually made you stronger and more determined to do more to speak up for those people that. Yeah, I mean, it's, I think I have a very probably stringent way of thinking. It's not, it's not, I just, the people, when I did my court cases and it was so, I could have just got angry because of the threats to myself, my family, you know, we were looked after by a terrorist squad for. two years. You know, my children were, there were threats for them. They were going to be taken. I had people. It was, it was the most extraordinary. And it's because the system, the status quo and they were saying that I was fighting Brexit. They didn't understand that what I was fighting was for our constitution, because if any prime minister can put themselves above the law, they can take away our rights without parliament. And that's such a, so, you know, they could decide,

If I had lost my cases, it would set a precedent because we don't have a written constitution that any prime minister could close down Parliament or bypass Parliament and bring in anything. Conscription for 16-year-olds or abortions being illegal. No workplace having to bring in anything to do with DEI, which we might see in the way the political landscape is going. No rights for women. Yet all of those things, a prime minister could just wake up and they would have gotten away with it. So that fundamental keeping a prime minister in check was what I was fighting for in both my cases. But that was never reported that way.

So that could have got me very angry. But I just thought, look, I'm going to carry on doing what I'm doing. But I've always got this thing that those who want to shut me up and hate me, if I stay quiet, they win. Yes. So why would I allow them to win? Yes. I'm not going to let their voices trump mine when I know what I'm doing is for. the protection of others.

Yeah. And with that truth, you spoke about truth. Yeah. It's that truth that drives me on. Yeah. And but there are days when I go home and cry my eyes out and... Oh, so you're human. And I hold my children.

Yeah. And I just think why am I doing it? And then I look at them and I think I'm doing it for you. Yeah, totally. Because I don't want them, you know, I also have this strong sense of stewardship as, as parents and as they all generate. You know, we should leave the world. a better place. We don't, well, I don't want my children to have to pick up all the pieces because I stayed quiet or I was too cowardly or I worried about somebody would say something nasty about

me. Well, fine, you say whatever you want. You don't love me. I don't care about you. Why would I bother if you decide that I may, you know, whatever name you want to call me? There are lots of times where I could easily stop doing what I'm doing, but then I look at the children and they are the ones that say, no, you're helping future generations, you're allowing us. have a choice. We're talking about hormones in a way that we've never thought about them before, never learned about them at school. It's not just helping us, it's helping older people, everyone else. But it is the people that you love are the people that matter. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, when I fought for exposing a lot of the rip-offs that led to the financial crisis,

you know, I was taking on the city, the regulator, the FCA, you know, government, the treasury. And there are lots of days when I wanted to give up. And my kids were the ones who, and my husband and we're all the ones who said you've got to carry on. But it's interesting because my eldest daughter who has special needs, her academic age, if you like, tradition is about five or six. But she has, her EQ, her emotional intelligence is quite extraordinary. And she sees things in such black and white. And quite often she's the one who'll say things to me, which I think, oh my gosh,

because she's not socialized into responding the way that the rest of us are quite unconditioned. And so she'll say, she'll say, me when I remember very distinctly that when I when the second case with Boris Johnson I thought why me again why do I have to do it and then the it came to my realization that because I'd done the first court case I actually was the only person who had what's called locust I had the right to bring the second one so it actually had to be me yeah and and she said I remember she's saying mommy you'd be really unhappy if you didn't do it and I thought because I was I always try and explain to them, you know, even when they were very little, I've always tried to explain them

what I'm doing. And I thought, maybe not now, but she's right. I would be, and she's just, she has this clarity. And it's really interesting because I'm sort of part Peruvian in South America is that when I've done this, because I love history and reading about other cultures and their spiritual journeys. And the Inkers believe that they had precesses of the sun. Yes. But in today's society, most of them would have had special needs because they stole them as having heightened sight and being closer to God. Isn't that extraordinary? It's very interesting.

So that idea of not being clouded and being like the rest of us was celebrated. The neurodiversity and being different was a celebration. Yeah. It wasn't a limitation. Which is a different way of thinking about things, isn't it? And so much I think in culture now is trying to normalise us all be the same. And for women to be the same and be good. And to be, yes, yeah.

I'm definitely not a good girl. No, well, I'm not either. That's fine. But so much for women, especially, when we think about hormones, hormonal changes, it's just stripped. Loads of women come to my clinic and say, this isn't me. I've lost my identity. I don't know who I am anymore.

And I really, I worry about women a lot. I worry about the impact on home, but I also worry about their impact in the workplace. And we know that around 10% of women give up their jobs in the workplace. and the commonest symptoms are memory problems, anxiety and fatigue. So we don't need fans on our desk. We don't need different uniforms. But the perceptions are so wrong that people think,

oh, menopause, you can just get through it. Don't worry, they're there. And a lot of people, it comes at the height of their career as well. Funny, so mine was 10 years ago. And I distinctly remember speaking at a conference on financial services, It was a massive great big conference. And I walked on stage. And I was always known for wearing trousers,

even though most of the women, speaking at conference, are told to wear dresses. It's ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. But I always wore my trouser suit. And I walked on stage being menopausal. And within five minutes, probably less, my entire back was soaking wet. And I could feel the sweat dripping down my back.

And I had to give this speech. And then I knew it was going to have to turn around and then walk across the stage to sit down for the panel session. And I could feel. It was just, I was soaking. And brain fog set in. And I couldn't remember anything I was supposed to say at this very technical conference. And so I sort of looked at the room.

And it was, you know, 10 years ago, so we didn't have the screens and, you know, all the clear screens. And I didn't have an alter cure or anything like that. And I had to ask so you think, what do you do in that moment? And I just asked for a glass of water, paused. and I thought, I can't do the speech I was going to do because I can't remember what I was going to do. And there's a lot of technical people here who will ask me questions in Q&A session.

So I actually really stripped it back and made a very simple speech. And instead of sort of the 45-minute speech, I did 15 minutes. And I said, we've got a Q&A session, a panel session afterwards, ask me any questions because I knew I'd be more relaxed. Better than, yeah.

But I looked across and I could just see there were about in this huge audience of like, say, 200, there were about 20 women. And I thought, none of the men in this audience are going to understand what I'm feeling right now. And so I have to get through this. And it's that anxiety and it's just, and that moment of terror almost. It's really hard. And it's really disabling. And so that's the thing that people don't realize is that it's not just the medical, it's so much.

You carry so much. It's exhausting and not being supported. and having a fan or having a day off or working for them. None of those things are going to make it better for you. But it has to be a cultural change, just not just a legal change. This is the thing I've been saying for menopause for years and decades now possibly

is that when the Quality Act came in and Health and Safety Act came in, it's all very well. And now the work that's done by the ECHR on menopause, I've been saying it has to be a cultural change as well. The law is not enough. Changing the law is not enough. It has to be a cultural change.

The same way that I've advocated for cultural change when it's come to talking about domestic violence because I'm a survivor, coercive behavior, neurodiversity because of my daughter, you know, I've been campaigning about these things for 30-odd years and the pace of change is so slow. So slow. And what terrifies me, and I'm using the word terrified,

very particularly, is that we, We are going backwards. The data, these are not perceptions, the data for the last three to four years are showing in all these areas, we are going backwards. And the rights and the advancements women have made, and advocates like myself have made,

and you have made, we are actually going backwards. And young women are frightening, are frightened to speak up as well because of the pressure on them, because of the backlash on social media, the toxicity. of social media is poisoning society in so many ways, but it is actually poisoning when it comes to people speaking up

and advocating for each other. You know, the abuse that I got, that I get online, it's just horrendous. Why does somebody think they have the right to say that I should be gang raped or I should be, you know, killed or I should go back to the jungle? All these things that people say. Without knowing you.

Without knowing me is frightening that they think, because all these people, all this toxicity was always there in society, but it was on the fringes. Yes. And I think what social media and what now our political environment is allowing is for it to become acceptable and front and center. And that is a huge shift. You can't say it was never there.

No. Division, hatred, all these things have always been there. But as a society, we saw them as being unacceptable. Yes. And we've been fighting to make things more acceptable, but we're still going, we're now going backwards. And that is terrifying. So the advancements made on talking about and normalizing menopause and dealing with that, normalizing the idea that we do have coercive behavior as a, as a, you know, an illness in our society, that we have discrimination, that we have hatred. We, it's normal now.

When did it, you know, we have to fight back. It can't be normalized. I totally agree. And I think it's been so much like accepted, especially just thinking about menopause in the workplace. So if, oh, well, she'll menopaus. Well, she wouldn't go for a promotion. And someone recently said to me, oh, well, now I'm menopausal. I'm going to change my job.

And it's like, well, hang on. There's treatment for menopause. Actually, if you have the right treatment, you'll be feeling so much better. You shouldn't be a second-class citizen because you've, you're a soft. from something and neither should you be perceived as one in the workplace either. It is unfortunate that the biological clock comes, as you said, at the time when your career is just going at that stage. You know, your 50s, 60s is when you're probably looking from a version going to senior

management. And a lot of women are actually because the acceptance isn't there and the culture isn't there and the help isn't there is so that it's easier to step away. Yeah. You know, in my world, you know, it is sad. we're going backwards, the number of women who are at top of footsie or 250 companies, the figures are going backwards. Women who are staying in my world, in financial services, full time.

A lot of them are going part-time because the infrastructure isn't there to support us. You know, there's so much support when you go to women entering to work at the lower ladders, but we're stuck in the middle. Absolutely. And that, you know, we need to have middle management and senior management. there isn't enough support at that time. And also the other thing is the reality of women leaving, having children later and having parents who are still alive is that we've also got women at that same time being sandwich carers.

So looking after young children, having caring responsibilities on top of going through menopause, on top of looking after your career, it's absolutely exhausting. It's really hard. And even thinking about the NHS, we did a survey recently of people who, are employed in the NHS, so any grade, any, not just medics, 37% wanted to reduce their hours but couldn't afford to. So if you've got that, you won't be going to work and doing the best of your jobs. You will just be sort of going through the motions.

But the worst thing is, is that in the UK, only 14% of menopals or women receive evidence-based treatment that we know would improve their brain fog, improve their anxiety, improve their ability to function. So it just seems so in Congress that we're not even looking at, after our own, if you like. It's, you know, you wouldn't have people going to work with broken legs and not giving them any treatment and adjusting their work so they could, you know, it just is mind-boggling actually that it's just accepted that women can go on lower pay,

less pension, you know, reduce their hours. It's real, you know, all these things are connected. It's, you know, the medical, the educational and the financial. It's all connected, which is why, you know, as you know, I've launched this a specific financial services platform for women called MoneyShue. And I launched that in November, even though, I mean, we were scheduled to launch in November and then I got diagnosed with cancer in September. But I was, even though I was then starting chemo in October, I was determined that I was still going to do the launch. So we launched in November because actually one of the problems that women have is going through menopause and having to give up work are going part of. time being diagnosed with cancers. We know, you know, 80-odd percent of women diagnosed breast

cancer in their 50 over 50, you know, at a time when you need finances and women already have a pension gap, have a gender pay gap. You know, without money, they're so little you can do. And then at that time, you can be out of treatment, you can be receiving treatment for up to two years. So then you've got that financial burden of maybe more childcare, more care for parents or having rest by care in a care home. And, you know, I am absolutely passionate about the fact that financial security and freedom for women is so underserved. You know, in my industry, in financial services,

you know, the big institutions thought, oh, well, we've got a female initiative. We brought out a pink brochure. Or I was told by a wealth manager the other day with a very big brand. Oh, Gini, we'll be really proud. We now have a light lunch option on our menu. Oh, my goodness. And I was thinking, oh, great.

Is that just for women? Just for women. And then I went to the launch of, again, another fund for women. As women, women need different financial products. They don't actually. They just need to be educated and have more confidence and access to them. You know, the whole suction shares, the whole world of wealth is, those benefits are dominated by men. We need women to have access to those benefits as well.

And I went to this launch and it was actually going really well. Until they then came to this point where they said, and anybody who becomes a client will have a free consultation with our colourist. And I thought, oh dear. What? I didn't know if it was a hair colourist or a clothing colourist. I wasn't quite sure what the colourist was. And they went on yesterday to help you with your wardrobe.

And I thought, would they do that with men? It's so belittling that you think that that's what women want. They're coming to talk about how they become financially secure and empowered, not to find out about their colour in their wardrobe. And it's so certain things. And you just think in 19, you know, in 2024, this is last year, we're still doing this. We're still, you know, talking to women as though they're children. And you're, I mean, your research showing the number of women who aren't saving regularly.

Oh, it's shocking. I mean, the stats are high, aren't they? The stats, I mean, basically, our latest research that we've just done is particularly around ISIS because I love ISIS. You know, ISIS is a tax-free rapper. So it depends what you put in. in it that, you know, gets your real return because you want your, you know, when you retire, you get older, you're 100 pounds, you're going to a supermarket today with 100 pounds. You want in 10, 15, 20 years for your 100 pounds to be able to buy the same basket of goods,

but it's not going to because of inflation. You typically in 20 years will need that 100 pounds will need to go to about 130 or 40 pounds. So you need what's called real returns. So you don't, saving in cash is not going to give you that. And what we found is that over 60% of women, so women are saving more. they're saving cash, cash isis and in cash, and that's not going to give them the real returns they need. And only about 14% are saving in stocks and shares, Isis.

So we need to increase that. But actually, 41% of women, this is women who are earning more than £40,000 a year, can't afford to save at all because of their responsibilities. That is shocking. That is shocking, isn't it? It's absolutely shocking when you think that women live longer, have more complicated medical needs, but also the high percentage of women

who are living in pension poverty, it's growing. And to me, that is just a tragedy. You've worked hard all your life. You've put up with all these things and then you can't afford to turn on your heating. You can't afford to buy food. You can't afford to live in what we think as normal everyday comforts.

That's why, you know, putting away money now and start of encouraging women to become financially literate and financially confidence, it's so important. And again, you know, eventually at Money She, we want to start an initiative in universities and schools as well, because education. And this is not just for women. I do believe that all young people, especially when they go to university in that first year, should learn about APR, about mortgages, about loans. You know, we don't teach about money. And yet it's the basis of so much. Without money, you don't really have freedom of choice.

And the other thing about women being able to save and it's not just for the bad stuff or for the negative things. It's also because so many women want to start their own business or go part-time because of their responsibilities because of men reports. They may want to start their own small business.

So having that freedom, you know, being able to put away money so that you can in your 50s, say, or 60s, think, well, actually, what I want to do is maybe support a charity or start a business or travel. It's just that freedom of choice. Absolutely right. And the freedom is so important. And, you know, as a doctor, I can talk about anything. We can talk about sex, which is fine. But people actually are more reserved talking about money than they are about sex, aren't they?

Yeah, some of the statistics we discovered were really shocking. We found out that or results showed that only 17% of couples have serious conversations about money. 17%. That's extraordinary. And the other thing was the divorce gap because unfortunately, you know, divorce is a reality and for a lot of women end up living in single households for a number of reasons. And the gap, the divorce gap is that a man after divorce tend to. to be 33% better off than a woman. Because again, women are not taught about how to ask for things properly

and how to really demand that they get an equal share and a fair share, not just equal, but a fair share post-divorce. So there's so many things that we need educating. So important, isn't it? And again, thinking back about hormones, because that's all I think about, we know the divorce rate increases during menopause. Yes. We know that abuse increases in menopause.

We know that it's so much harder for women because they've lost, their jobs. So many women I see in my clinic have lost their jobs, they've lost their partner, they have no idea how they're going to function and financially as well, it affects them so much more. I mean, as I said, I'm a survivor of domestic violence and in 85% of coercive behaviour or domestic violence cases, there is economic abuse because it's one of the easiest ways to control women, predominantly women, are victims. So I'm really battling that we really, you know, banks and institutions, insurance companies all have to be better at protecting their female clients and actually seeing the signs of

when abuse is happening. But it's also the fact that we are not, we're not educating women enough to understand their rights. So, you know, understanding our rights are so important. we've got to because the Rian, and these are not taboos that we talk about and people say to me sometimes, oh, Juni, you're just, you know, listening to you, so depressing and I know it's not about being depressed,

it's about empowerment. Yes. You've got to know what's coming. Be prepared for what's coming around the corner. Yeah. Which is so important. I'm sitting here thinking, goodness, there's so much.

I need to think about finances in general because as doctors, it's terrible. Oh, yes. I did a whole project with doctors And I was quite surprised, I have to say, that nurses and doctors, and again, that, you know, the lack of engagement. But it's because you're busy. Yeah, totally. And that's one of the things.

You know, technology has got as good, his ill, but it's also enables efficiency and accessibility. So with the Moneyshe platform, what we've done is we've built tools and, you know, we've got sort of people worry about their risk, what products do they buy. So we've got like a matchmaking tool for risk. and so you can go in there. And it's just simple. And it's that accessibility and making things. And technology also can lower costs. And that's one of the things that industry does not like.

It's protecting its high fees. And I'm going, actually, you're milking people. If people, if you're getting a return, it's their money. They should get the lion's share of it. Why are you taking all these fees? That's not how much it costs. And so exposing the, you know, I would say quite often to people, how do you think we got Canary Wharf and all those.

nice, shiny big buildings. Just think about whose fees of paid for that. Yeah, it's very true. So before I end, I can't not talk about your breast cancer diagnosis just quickly. You are so positive and you've come in here, you're having a pause from your chemotherapy, you've got major surgery coming up. Yeah. But you tell me how much you've researched everything. You've got the most fantastic, mainly female medical team. Yeah, I have. And you've been really involved in every decision making, which makes we feel so please, actually. I mean, I was determined to

be treated in the NHS, because I think we are so fortunate to happen. You know, all the knocking the NHS, we have a wonderful NHS. There's lots that needs to change and improve as in any organisation. But I've been really fortunate. And I've actually got a girlfriend who's going through,

unfortunately, 10 years younger than me, but going through a similar diagnosis to myself with breast cancer. And her team are majority male. And she's having a very different experience from me. My team are predominantly female. And it's not just the medical support, but it's the emotional empathy I'm getting that's quite different from her experience. But I want to be very vocal about my cancer. I mean, I've got quite a rare breast cancer, a genome mutation. But again, you know, there are millions of women around the country all looking for a lump.

And there are other signs. And for me, it was, I self-diagnosed. It was changes in my nipple and also in my skin. So, you know, we need to look out for any nipple changes, any what I call orange peel skin. It's not just the lumps because it's quite hard to look for a lump. So, you know, women have got to be much more aware, self-aware. But also the finances because you can be out of, you know, you need to think about what will happen. As I said, you know, 80 odd percent of women who get breast cancer over.

the age of 50. So you know, you've got to have the financial cushion there as well to be out of work and to go through that. Because I think as we go through austerity, we are definitely going through austerity again, 2.0. It's coming or it's here already, is that there will be cut back on drugs, even though NICE might approve a drug, that if you can't get it on the NHS, you may have to pay for it. So, you know, something like gene therapy, for example, or immunotherapy, you know, it can be 100,000 if you can't get in the NHS. And so you have to be prepared that the public purse cannot pay going forward for everything, be it retirement, be it your health, be it to your mental or physical health, be it for your

children. So, you know, having a financial cushion is so important. And so I'm talking about my cancer because it came from nowhere. I wasn't expecting it. But it is what it is. It's a reality and I have to fight it. And I want women to get screened. I want them to talk about it more.

I want people to understand that it's a breast cancer that strips you of your identity, like menopause. Because it's how society looks at you when you go through mastectomy, which I will be having a double mastectomy. You know, and I've sat there and I've been in a very dark place thinking, how will my hormones change? What will people think of me? You know, I've got no hair at the moment. and, you know, people look at you differently. I didn't wear makeup for six months because I couldn't have any of the toxicity

going through my body through chemo. And everyone judges you differently. Totally. And I have to say, though, I am sick and tired of people saying, you're a strong woman, you'll get through it. You have to treat every single person. Give people the respect to understand

that every journey is different, every experience is different, but also support them. We have to support each other and be kind to each other. And I think sometimes when we're all so busy, we forget to be kind. I think that's so important.

What a great place to sort of wrap up because kindness is everything and it doesn't cost any money at all. You don't have to save for it. You can do it every day and not judge people. And just because, of course, you're a strong woman,

but of course you still need love and compassion and care and you need explanations and you need to be treated as an individual. It's so important. I know we were obsessed in education and everybody should be A's and get an A and be A class. And I go, I actually quite like the three Cs,

which are compassion. I know it's not a C, but compassion. And being collaborative and collegiate with each other. But also just sometimes use your common sense. We try and overcomplicate everything. But common sense is underestimated, you know. And listen to that feeling in your stomach, you know. It's your second brain.

Listen to that. Sometimes when things just seem so complex and too difficult to make a decision, sit in a quiet moment. I like quiet moments. Yes. Sit in a chair in a quiet moment and just listen to your own voice and that feeling in your stomach. Because you'll probably make the right decision. So important.

Really important. So before we end, I always ask for three take-home tips and I feel you've given loads of tips already. No, no, my three take-home tips. So for women, I'd say that one, stop saying sorry. Yeah. The first word out of your mouth shouldn't be sorry. And stand up and speak out and be proud of who you are. Own your space because no one has a right to diminish you.

And don't let them, don't give them that power to diminish you. You know, own you. Yeah. And the third thing I suppose I'd say is, is what we've just spoken about is be kind. Yeah. It doesn't take much to be kind, but that kindness can save someone. I just end on, I saw a chap crying on the bench. When I finished my chemo, I could finally go out the house and do things.

And it was a beautiful, we've had a few beautiful sunny days. And I saw this chap crying on the bench. And I went up to him and I sat down and I said, are you okay? And he saw at me. And I said, again, are you okay? I said, I'm not leaving here until I know you're okay. And we sat on the bench talking for two hours. And he had been, he had just gone through a terrible experience through mental health illness.

He had lost his, he was going through a divorce. He was about to lose his home and he was thinking of suicide. And two hours late, he said, I can't believe you bothered to talk to me. And, you know, I just said to him, go and see Sab. And I said, I can't help you. I don't know really your situation. But these are some people you can go and talk to. There's this and advice bureau.

There's this, this, this. These are the things you can do. This is where you can get help. And I said, all I could give you is practical help. That's all. And he said, no, you actually stopped and spoke to me. And so that's just a very simple thing. It didn't cost me anything.

It's so important. It's so important. Kindness goes a long way. Oh, thank you so much. It's been really great. Thanks for coming. It's been my absolute pleasure. Subscribe to my newsletter for exclusive insights and updates on new episodes.