The Dr Louise Newson Podcast - 022 - Menopause for Partners - Leigh Goulding & Dr Louise Newson

Episode Date: November 5, 2019

Partners of menopausal women are often neglected. In this podcast, Dr Louise Newson talks to Leigh, a partner of one of her patients who vividly describes how worried he was when he saw the changes in his wife and had no idea what was going on. They discuss potential ways of improving education to men and partners. It is really important that partners are involved and understand potential symptoms. Partners can often have a pivotal role in diagnosing the perimenopause and menopause and can help seek the right advice and treatment.  Click here to take a look at this booklet, created by Dr Newson, which is a helpful guide specially created for partners to help a loved one manage the menopause: https://bit.ly/2NJkNXs Leigh Goulding's Three Take Home Tips for partners: Hold your tongue - any arguments you may be having may simply be due to perimenopaue and menopause. Do your research and make sure to check the sources of whatever you read. "Happy wife, happy life!"

Welcome to the Newsome Health Menopause podcast. I'm Dr Louise Newsom, a GP and menopause specialist, and I run the Newsome Health Menopause and Wellbeing Centre here in Stratford-upon-Avon. So I'm very lucky today. I have someone called Lee with me in my clinic who has come up with his wife, who is a patient of mine, but he's kindly agreed to give me some time to talk about his experience of the menopause, not his personal experience,

but his experience of living with a menopause or woman and how scared he was and how difficult it was really. So thanks for coming, Lee. Is it okay? So took me through. You've had quite a difficult time, which thankfully isn't anymore. We've got a happy ending,

but just talk to me about what was going through your mind when your wife started changing. Kim has always been a very active. and on it person really smart and she was kind of doling which was unusual and I couldn't quite understand why she was obviously getting the night sweats and everything which I understand can be menopause but being a man didn't really understand menopause and I thought that was kind of all that happened to be menopause and then she started getting all the anxiety and problems that came with that.

It's just like watching her fall apart at the seams really. I didn't know why. And again, being a guy I wanted to try and fix things and couldn't, so I really didn't know what to do. Yeah. But she, in her stupevied state, for one of a better way of putting it, was researching and trying to find out what was going on. So what did you think was going on?

I didn't know. No. Didn't know. I mean, I don't think there's probably many men that do know about men or boys. It's not something that until you're in here. Yeah, absolutely. It comes across your radar.

Could you've been together for a long time? Yeah, yeah, yeah. How long have you been together? We've been married 30 years next year. So you've gone through a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've been up and down. Yeah, and you know each other really well.

So was this the most different that she'd been? Oh, with that question, yeah. I mean, we've had a couple of health things in the past, but she always bounced back pretty quickly, but not this time. But she wasn't bouncing. back. No, in fact, if anything is getting worse, and health anxiety,

it's crippling. Seeing has mentally suffer. When physically, the health problem she thought she was getting and she actually hadn't got. Yes.

And then try to help her get her head around and get a grip of it. And no matter what you said, no matter what you did, it didn't make any difference. No, no. I mean, she's more irritable?

Oh, good, yeah. She wasn't, when you hear the stories of women going completely mad and angry and violent perhaps with menopause. Yeah. Kim did that. She was just more irritable and less patient, which again is not Kim. Yes.

We're two huge rows and it was the second row that I kind of clicked what was going on and then sort of stopped biting back. I bit my lip for one of a better way of putting it and then try to understand what was going on and how we could try and sort it and help out, which really helped a bite of my tongue, you know, so it did help. So, I mean, I see lots of people in my clinic who have gone through divorce or their I'm not surprised. And, yeah, it's not surprising, is it?

Not at all. And you obviously adore each other and love each other, but it's difficult, isn't it, when you don't know what's going on and somebody in front of you has changed? The one person that is my bill and end all He's not the same person as she was I don't know we change as we get older But this was a radical change Yeah

Wasn't Kim And did you talk to any of your friends About what was going on all Not really because like I say I haven't got that many friends anyway I'm not working colleagues It's not something I'm going to talk about with But it's not something guys would discuss

I wish they would now I really do I mean, if I knew now what I knew then, I would have tried and maybe found a support group or somewhere I could have gone and gone on. What's going on out? And I'm sure they are out there, but... Well, they're not.

I don't know. It's a big problem. I mean, I think I can't think of any other podcasts where a man has gone on to talk about his wife going through the menopause. So, you know, you're setting history here. Because people don't talk. And I think I just worked for West Midlands Fire Brigade a while ago,

and I gave a lecture about the menopause and someone came up to me afterwards and he said a lot of men are clearly fire men are very fit, they're young a lot of testosterone going around in their bodies and saying a lot of these men are really struggling at work and when they talk to them

often there's menopause going on with their partners and often these women are changing like you say so they're not having the same stability at home but then also they're not even having a sexual relationship And, you know, we're very British, we don't like talking about sex. But actually men, this is a generalisation, so don't take offence.

But a lot of men, they're quite happy talking about how much sex they have. But how can you go down to the pub with your mates and say, well, I'm not having sex anymore? And my wife's really changed and I don't really love her. It's really hard to have that sort of conversation, isn't it? Absolutely, yeah. But like you say, if someone had said to you, well, these things are going to happen and it's because of the menopause, you would feel a lot more prepared, do you think? Yeah, I do, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, different men's wives are going to have different symptoms and whatever, so that would possibly be quite difficult to talk to one guy about it when his wife may have had much less symptoms or even not gone through it yet, but it would help to talk, it would help to understand. It really would, or to know what's possibly coming. And then I wouldn't have had to have got to the second round to go, hang on a minute, you know, ding-dong, it's, it's, that's what to do.

it is. And I think also lots of men or partners are worried that it's them that have changed. You know, you sort of think, well, what have I done? You start questioning yourself, is like, what have I done? Yeah, yeah. I think it's quite a popular thing that it, what have I done? Because it

does feel like that you're affecting it. And it's not, obviously, it's chemical, but, and you start to feel a little bit inadequate because you can't help. No, because nothing you can do right. Yeah. No, it is difficult. I mean, I know when had symptoms and I've been with my husband for over 30 years so we do know each other well but

I was getting very int cerebral and even his breathing was annoyingly everything he said was annoyingly and recently we were talking about it and he said well the good thing about it was you were so tired that you go to bed early so then I don't have to bother with you but you know she didn't go to bed early but just couldn't sleep very often as she was waking up really regularly with night sweats wasn't she? So what about you were you sleeping or did you go to a different room or? No, I can sleep. You can sleep through anything?

Or could, I would say. Now Kim sort of got better with her sleep. Mine's gone the other way, but I can sleep on a pin. I would wait now and then, and I'll turn it up, she'd be reading, or the covers would be off because she's sweaty and, you know, boiling hot. So it's not induceive to a close, loving relationship, though, isn't? No. No.

You can't get near her, because she's... One strange thing that happened with Kim and I was, if I touched her, literally held her hand or give her a hug, she'd get a sweat. Yes. Which doesn't make sense. No. No, a lot of people say that. A lot of people.

And so certainly, I know we've talked about sex and a lot of people talk about reduced libido. And some people, as you know, some women get vaginal dryness. So physically it's very painful. But actually, even taking a step before sex, even things like holding hands can be really difficult. It would start a flush. Yeah, yeah. So a lot of women say, they, say, They don't want to be touched or they don't want to be hugged.

And so if you're not touched or hug, you'll never really go. Well, then as a man, I wanted all these wards out of them, but always then, where are you doing it? Because I know, as soon as I did it, it would kick off a flush. Yes, so then you don't do that. So then you start, not, you know, he's just moving apart. Yeah, absolutely. Which is very sad, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.

And she'd had symptoms for a couple of years like that, didn't she? Oh, yeah, yeah. It's a long time to not have any sort of intimacy, like you say, like holding hands or Because we always have been like that. We always hold hands when we go out and whatever. It's strange. And then again, you're thinking, what have I done? Yes.

But I knew it was because of a flush, but not understanding menopause. It's quite difficult to get her dream. Yeah. So when she finally went to a doctor and I know she was given a patch, and did you think, great, this will be the end of it? Or what was going to be? I hoped it would be, yeah. I hoped it would be.

But two days into the migraine she had was that bad. She had to come off that patch. And I think she started on, quarter of a patch actually. Right, okay. But that was just too bad. But again, as a blow, I didn't know there was different types of, you know, estrogen's and progestions and all.

I didn't know. So you thought it was this or nothing? Pretty much, yeah. I mean, Kim, again, like I said, she did a lot of the research. I kind of sort of gleaned bits of information because it kind of takes over your life in conversation. Because she's so desperate to get better and you're desperate for to get better. I just want to talk you through with her.

And if I can help her do it. but I didn't really understand a lot of it a bit, you know. So yeah, I was hoping that it would be, you know, got other doctors, get to put a patch on job done, but it wasn't working on that. So you'd gone from anticipating Kim to come back and then suddenly you were back to square one.

Back to where we were, if not worse. Yeah. Because we were disappointed that the patch haven't worked. So then we went to the NHS Menopause Clinic where we tried other projections and oestrogenes and that didn't work so then we came to you and that did

work but it was a big thing coming here to a different clinic did you think things would get better or by that time had you resigned yourself this is the way things would be I was more hopeful I was more

well if I didn't think it would work I wouldn't have come no yeah but what we'd read online and again came doing a big research I was lots of once I was a last ditch hope but

it kind of felt that way yeah yeah yeah um and again from the testaments from other women yeah and we read it like works and you know here we are and it did yeah absolutely and I think it's you know a lot of people think HRT it's three letters clearly it stands for hormone

replacement therapy but as you know there's different hormones there's different doses there's different types and one of the doctors before we go yeah yeah well that's right and but one of the doctors recently was saying oh it's a bit like trying on a pair of shoes, you might have to try a few pairs on and then you suddenly find that really comfortable pair that you live in and it's a bit like that with hormones and not everyone gets fantastic

results and also as you I'm sure know not every symptom is related to the menopause so it's very easy sometimes to think every pain or every bit of being tired is related to hormones and I sort of always think well if we as women get our hormones balance we can sort of tick that box and then we can address everything else yeah and as you know it's It's not just about sticking on a patch and then having a terrible lifestyle. You know, if I just gave people patches and they smoke 20 a day and ate McDonald's, it's not going to do it for them. But often people find it sort of gives them the passport so then they can exercise more, eat better, everything else.

Which is exactly what happens. Yeah, yeah. And actually, you know, when you've got more energy, you can feel happier. And when you're happier, everything's easier, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Gims it a bit of all, I'm happy. Yeah. I think, you're right.

I think it's funny, isn't it? I don't want to big up women, but I know even at home, if I'm in a bad mood, the whole family are in a bad mood, it's just him. That's a good and part. No, that's right. You know, and I think for a lot of women, you know, they're running the house as well as doing job, as well as everything else, and not undermining men, they have a very important role too. And it's a teamwork, a relationship's a teamwork, isn't it?

Certainly for us at home, we're constantly working together and juggling the children. and everything else. We have a thing where Kim does multiple things at once well, but men do one thing well. I can only do one thing at a time. And when Kim was, before she got a treatment whenever, that didn't happen, which blew us all away. Like my two daughters, not you blew us away.

But now she's got a treatment, she's back to where she was. Which is quite something, I think, you know, there is differences, obviously, in the way our brains function and the way we are. And for me it's really sad that for every woman that I see in the clinic, there's probably millions suffering globally because this isn't a UK problem. The menopause affects all women if they live long enough. And sadly, only the minority of women are getting proper treatment, which, as we were saying before, we press record, if it was a men's problem. If it was a man's problem, do you think it might be solved. Yeah, I think it would have been.

I really do. Yeah. I mean, I think if we said to men, right, you're 51, you're going to be. castrated, you won't get erections, you won't be able to have sex, your brain will go to mush and you'll probably feel really anxious. There'd be a stampede towards the laboratories and everything else, does I find out?

Yeah. How do we care about this thing? Yeah, absolutely. And like you say, we can now buy Viagra over the counter and actually HART isn't just about having sex back. Oh no, it's getting your life back. Yeah, absolutely. And it's not just about getting your life back as in improving your symptoms, women who, as you know, take HRT have a lower risk of heart disease, osteoporosis, diabetes.

And most women will die from heart disease, not from breast cancer. And there's never been a study that shows that women who take HRT have an increased risk of death from breast cancer. So it's just such a shame that there's all this scaremongering about HIV. And misinformation, right? Yeah. Check your source before you take it as red. Yeah, it's really important.

So when Kim started taking HRT, were you reading information? Were you trying to learn about it with her? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Did you find that useful having some information? Yeah, in understanding what was going on with her, I could then try and be more supportive to her. Yeah.

I mean, obviously, from my own physical health point of meaning, it didn't do a lot for me, but mentally does. Yeah. Because she's getting put back on the right and narrow. Yeah. And I think it's having, like you say, having some understanding and some knowledge. And actually, it must have been lovely for you seeing a change in her. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. She's back. Yeah. Yeah, which is great, isn't it? Yeah. So it's just trying to get the message out. So part is because sometimes, as Kim said before in another podcast, that it's all consuming when it's happening to you. And you can't, as a woman, often see the wood from the trees.

And you don't sometimes even realize that you've changed. because it's so gradual. Yeah. So actually for a lot of women, they need their partners, whether their partners are male or female, to actually say, look, do you think it might be the menopause or read this information? And I feel a lot of the work I'm doing is about empowering women,

but I think we should be empowering everyone. Absolutely, yeah. And actually even children, so I've got teenage children, and I've got an eight-year-old as well, but my teenage children are often spotting their friends' mums who are menopause and all their teachers. And even my eight-year-old said the other day, I mean, one of my teachers thinks she needs to come and see you.

So, you know, but that's good, isn't it? It's good, yeah. I think it should be seen. And we know that the earlier women receive the right treatment, not only it means they don't have to suffer, but also their future health improves as well. Absolutely. You know, if it's recognised early enough,

then you're not going to get the problems we got into with Kim suffering for what. One of the better way we putting it for four or five years before we realised what was going on and then actually going to you and we've got it sorted out. It's sort of five years wasted. It's a hell of a long time. Yeah, but she's not going to get back. Yeah.

We're not going to get back. No, I know. Someone once said to me that you should look forward and glance back. And I think that's a really good thing to say, isn't it? Because it's desperately sad and I'm sure you can understand at the end of most of my clinic days, I feel like crying because I think of all these wasted time. But then I think I've got to use it. into positive energy and think about all the things we can do going forward and, you know,

even recording this podcast, hopefully people will be thinking and acknowledging. And if any men or partners of women who are going through any symptoms can be educated by this, then it's got to be a good thing, hasn't it? Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm really, really grateful for you coming to talk. But before we finish, can you give me three tips for partners what they can do? because there will be people listening here thinking,

God, that's my partner, and I've tried to talk to her and she won't listen. So what would you recommend? Hold your tongue, if you can. Because if it's in and around the ages or the periods where menopause is going to start, or perimen and what starts, that's probably why it's happening.

Once you've realised that it is menopause, then research from reputable sources, not everything you read, you can take it's right. read. And thirdly, one of my favourite say is happy wife, happy life. Oh, brilliant. Yeah. It really is. I'm trying to live by that one.

Yeah, excellent. Happy wife, happy life. Yeah, absolutely brilliant. And, you know, it's lovely to see how supportive you are and certainly in the clinic we have lots of partners who come. Some come up to the clinic room, some stay down in the waiting room, but just for the women to have their support. I think we're in it together. Yeah. It's Kim's menopause, but it makes a big effect on our relationship.

Absolutely. So it's great that you stuck with her because like I said a lot of people don't stay together sadly. But I think for anyone listening who can recognise to some of what we said, then please get help. Either go onto my website or just talk to people and talk to others, but make sure the help that you get is evidence-based and works for you. It's really important. So thank you ever so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you. For more information about the menopause, please visit our website www.menopausedoctor.com.uk