The Dr Louise Newson Podcast - 040 - ’Supporting Your Immunity’ - Emma Ellice-Flint & Dr Louise Newson

Episode Date: March 24, 2020

In this week's podcast, Dr Newson is joined by Emma Ellice-Flint, a clinical nutritionist and former chef. Emma works alongside Dr Newson at her clinic, Newson Health Menopause and Wellbeing Centre and treats patients with all conditions, but digestive wellness and hormone balance are topics close to her heart.  In light of the outbreak of Coronavirus, Emma chats to Dr Newson about the different things we can do to help support our immunity and keep our bodies healthy. Emma describes the certain foods, drinks and nutrients that are beneficial for our overall health as well as those that can strengthen our immune systems. Emma has also written this informative article explaining how we can all adopt immunity boosting changes and habits. Emma Ellice-Flint's Three Take Home Tips for Staying Healthy: Rice is a family favourite! For a healthier alternative, try swapping it out for brown rice instead Broccoli, cabbage, garlic and onions are prebiotic, immune boosting vegetables and are great if you can eat them everyday Wherever possible, try and keep up your exercise during this time - in any shape or form! Website: www.emmasnutrition.com Instagram: @emmas_nutrition  Facebook: @emmasnutrition 

Welcome to the Newsome Health Menopause podcast. I'm Dr Louise Newsom, a GP and menopause specialist, and I run the Newsome Health Menopause and Wellbeing Centre here in Stratford-upon-Avon. So today I'm very excited to have Emma Ellis Flint, who is now officially the most frequent podcaster that I have on my series. As some of you know, Emma is a nutritionist that works very closely with us in the clinic. And we thought we would record something a bit different today. There's so much uncertainty in the world with coronavirus and there's a lot of panic buying. Every time I go to the

supermarket, there's various items that we can't get. So Emma and I thought it would be really useful to just share some thoughts that, well, we, but especially Emma has regarding how we can eat properly and really look after ourselves because looking after ourselves and our families and our loved ones is really crucial. So thanks for joining me today, Emma. That's a pleasure, Louise. Yeah. So really difficult times. There's a lot of uncertainty in the world. There's a lot of stress. There's a lot of worry. Everyone's got something that's affecting them. And lots of us have got more than one thing. So we know, we've talked about it before, how important nutrition is for our health, but also our well-being and our mental well-being as well. So talk me through some really

simple tips that we can do to help us. Yes, thanks Louise. Look, it really is. And I think, hopefully, this is really quite simple for people, because there are things people can do. It made me laugh actually the other day when I did go into the supermarket, because the parts of the aisles that were empty were things like rice and pasta. And in fact, those are exactly not the foods that are going to boost your immunity. Those foods don't have the nutrients in them that are actually immune boosting. So I think the main thing that people want to appreciate is, yes, we want to get lots of vitamins and polyphenols into ourselves, which is through lots of fruits and vegetables. And I'll go into details about that. And also conversely, and at the same time, those great fruits and vegetables and nuts and seas and legumes and pulses and things like that, they all feed the gut bacteria you've got. And if your gut is healthy and the bacteria, is working well, then this boosts your immunity as well. So the foods that are good for us and our

bodies as human beings are also good for our gut bacteria and both work together to boost your immunity. Yeah, so let's just spend a minute just reminding everyone about what gut bacteria is because there's so much about bugs at the moment, but there are some good bugs as well, aren't there? So just explain what goes on in our gut. Why do we have bugs in our gut and why are they so important for us. Okay, so everybody has millions, if not billions, of bacteria living in our gut. And they work there in synergy with us. They eat the food that we can't digest and they live happily most of the time in there. And they produce byproducts from their digestion, which our body and our gut loves by products that actually feed us and support us and not just

the wall of our gut bacteria, but make us quite healthy. It goes beyond the body. It goes beyond our gut and into our body and act as an anti-inflammatory and help boost our own immunity. And those gut bacteria themselves, if they are living well in our gut, they are the good guys. And then when the bad guys come along, our good guys kind of say, hey, there's no room for you, bad guys. You just carry on through and you just get out the way. And so they help us and boost our immunity in that sense as well. So it's a real happy working ecosystem there in our gut.

Which is really important. And for some of you who want to know more, we have recorded a podcast, haven't we, about gut health and how we can boost our gut health. And also how various food types, especially a lot of processed foods, can actually make our gut microbiome worse. And like Emma says, it's very good for our immunity. But it's also very good for our mental health and well-being, isn't it, Emma? Absolutely.

In fact, that's right. So anxiety, which some people might be feeling more of at the moment, interesting enough, affects our gut, but our gus affects our anxiety. So once again, if we can feed our body whole foods, beneficial foods, it won't just boost our immunity. It will help our mental health and hopefully will help to reduce that anxiety. So it's starting to be spring, which is a good time because there will be more and more fresh fruit and vegetables available to us, weren't there? and hopefully we won't be restricted so much that we can actually access them because like we've spoken about before, fresh fruit and vegetables, the more colours the better, the more varieties the better.

It's going to be good, isn't it? It is most definitely. Right now, if you buy the frozen vegetables and frozen fruit like dark berries, those are actually still very boosting for your gut and immunity. So that's fantastic. And then those winter vegetables like cabbage and onions, and garlic are actually hugely boosting to your immunity and your gut health as well. And beetroot, which is around at the moment.

So in fact, yes, you're right, we're coming into the spring season and they'll, asparagus will pop up any time soon, for instance, and things like that. However, those winter vegetables I mentioned and then these spring vegetables coming through, they're all very boosting. These vegetables I'm talking about are often termed as prebiotics. And if someone were to Google prebiotics, so that's P-R-E, as in pre-biotics, these are the foods, especially in research, has been shown to beneficially affect our good guys in our gut, and boost our gut bacteria, which in turn boosts both our immunity and our mental health.

So we've got foods like, unusual foods, perhaps like Jerusalem artichokes. We've got chicory and ridicio and stuff and rocket. But then those garlics, leaks, onions. spring onions, asparagus coming into season soon, beech root, fennel, green peas. And so it goes on cabbage. Cabbage is fabulous. Artichokes. And then we've got apples, winter fruit, but also we've got dark berries, which will come in to season in perhaps a few months' time.

They're all just absolutely fabulous for the gut as well as they all have plenty of vitamin C in them, which is boosting immunity and our gut health. Fantastic. Some people have been worried about eating fresh fruit and vegetables because they're worried about, obviously, we're all worried about coronavirus, but if it's on any fresh fruit and vegetables, and I've heard of some people actually washing fruit with soapy water. I'm not sure we have to go to that extreme. I don't know. What are your thoughts about that? Well, that's interesting. I haven't actually heard anything very specific to do with COVID-19 to do with this. I can only generalise on viruses or perhaps more actually, bacteria. on fruit and vegetables. And of course, cooking would kill the bacteria, which is a great thing. I don't know about washing with soapy water. Actually, I can't really comment on the COVID-19.

I don't know. I think the thing is, no one knows, but I think it's sensible to wash fruit and vegetable anyway. Yes. We know that there's a lot of fibre in the skin of fruit, so it is good to eat. And I think if someone has reduced immunity, then maybe consider cooking. But we don't want to overcook our vegetables because then some other vegetables. good vitamins will go from it. Yes.

So we're in the supermarket or we're going out shopping and we buy as much fruit and vegetables as we can, but obviously it varies the time of day that we shop, what's available. And then what about other foods? If we have a longer lockdown and if we find it very difficult to get out and we want food to last, what about food that's on the shelf? Yes, so other foods that boost both your immunity and your gut health are nuts and seeds, legumes and pulses, and whole grains. So especially when you look at nuts and seeds, you want, especially those ones that have skin on. So raw almonds, you know how the raw almonds

have the skin on and that skin is absolutely fabulous for our gut bacteria. So that's a really great one. And plus nuts and seeds have contained great protein and great anti-inflammatory oils. So they're all absolute win-win. And they keep for ages. And then you've got legumes and pulses The easiest ones for people who aren't so familiar with them are lentils. Dried lentils don't have to be soaked overnight. They can be cooked. They don't have to be soaked overnight. Interesting, good.

Any type of lentil doesn't have to be soaked overnight. So you can just cook it up in a pot with some water. And should you wash them before? Should you rinse them before you cook them? I mean, that's best to do it. But, you know, lentils being tiny, you want one of those strains that has really tiny holes. So you don't want to lose most of your... lentils down the sink more. I mean, I just wash mine in a sieve. I mean, I'm, as you know,

don't eat meat, but I do make my own stock. So I tend to cook lentils in a stock. Or you can just use water, can't you, and put in some vegetables or some herbs or whatever. Absolutely. So once you've got the cooked lentils, then how fabulous to have like a big fry pan with some extra version of olive oil in it. Pop in some shredded cabbage, some chopped of onion and garlic. Just fantastic. And cook that up. So it's just soft. And then you throw in a big, you throw in a big. handful of those cooked lentils, toss them altogether, popped in some, say, dried herbs, or fresh herbs if you've got some growing, even better. And you, oh my gosh, you have so boosted your immunity, your gut health, your vitamin C. And by the way, by cooking with a little

bit of extra version olive oil, you actually make all the nutrients and those vegetables even more bioavailable in your gut. So your body absorbs even more of them. Okay, so it's good to cook in olive oil because some people are scared of oil, aren't they? They think it's better to dry cook or just use the spray of oil, but actually to use, like you say, extra virgin olive oil. The thing with extra virgin olive oil is that because it is so high in its own beneficial polyphenols still, it actually means it can withstand high heat temperatures up to 210 degrees centigrade without being damaged.

So actually it's completely wrong where we all thought you just used it sprinkled on salad. and you can cook with it. And that boosts, that dish is benefits. So that's really quite cheap as well, isn't it? Yes. Yes. Yeah. To have something like that because it's a lot of people are worried about how to stay at home. The kids are at home now with schools closing. So I mean, I've personally got three extra meals a day to cook for my family and my teenagers eat a lot. And it's having food that last in our body is really important as well because the immediate reaction for a lot of people, especially if you're feeling more anxious just to go for some chocolate or go for some sweets, have a quick fix. But actually it's such a quick fix and it's so bad for

our pancreas because you get this big spike of insulin and then it drops off. So food that will last in the body. And, you know, if I gave my children some lentils on their own, there's no way that they'd eat them. But I actually put lentils once I've drained them, I just, they're uncooked, but I put them in with my bolognaise if I'm making a bolognaise of mince meat. So they cook in there. Brilliant. And it pads out of the meat, so it makes it a bit cheaper. But actually the children will eat them and they've never once minded because they don't really realize.

Because I also chop lots of other vegetables really small. So things like leek and celery and carrots and obviously garlic and onions into my mints. Because then it makes it go a long way. And, you know, spaghetti bonoenets, by, lasagna. You can do quite a lot, can't you? Yes. And I think it's also, I cook in bulk because, as you know, I'm busy, but I have a big chest freezer. So the children can still eat proper home-cooked food, but I don't want to be cooking every day.

I'm not interested enough, but I haven't got the time. So it's been clever with our time as well, isn't it? It's really important. Yes, that whole batch cooking thing is really is fantastic. You know, that whole cook once eat twice or cook once and eat five times. Oh my gosh, it saves you so much time. And going back to that list of the nuts, seas, legumes, pulses, and we've got whole. grains as well. So, you know, whole grain store for ages, you know, things like Kinwa or Kwinowa,

as it's spelt. You've got brown rice, fantastic. Brown rice is much higher in magnesium than white rice. Brown rice. Brown rice, basmati brown rice cooks actually very fast. And you've got so many more nutrients in there and so much more that will boost the immunity. And those things, if you cook them up, they can freeze up in batches really easily. Yes, because I know when I was at medical school, I was taught that you should never reheat rice because there's bacteria that can grow and if rice is reheated, you can get it. But actually I think that's changed. And we know that I've heard, I don't know if it's right, that if you use rice the second time, it's actually got more nutrients in it. Is that right or not?

No, it's not the nutrients. If you use rice the second time, it's lower as its glycemic index. So it produces less of a spike in your blood sugars. That's why. because the carbohydrate molecules almost locked together. And so it becomes even more of a whole food, better for your blood sugar balance. So that's another reason.

Because I mean, I often cook twice as much rice as I need and I'll have it for my, or the children will have it. For example, with bonnese. And then I will grate vegetables in it and stir in some seeds and some olive oil and some lemon juice and then have that for my lunch the next day. Which is great because it's easy. I'm not cooking twice.

But actually it's better, like you say. And just talk us through the glycic. What does that mean by low glycemic? Glycemic is another word for kind of like sugar almost in your blood. And when we eat sugary foods, for instance, we get this surge of sugar or glucose in our bloodstream. And our body doesn't like that. Our blood has a very tight pH value and it doesn't like this sugar floating around it. It literally makes our blood a bit sticky.

And so our body wants to get it out. And so it's a communication that goes to our pancreas to send out insulin. insulin comes through into the bloodstream. Insulin is communicating with the cells all around our bodies, including our muscle cells, other cells. And it almost likes knocking on the door of those cells, saying, come on, anyone, guys, come on, anyone needs some extra sugar.

Come on, open up your channels, get that sugar out of the blood. That's what insulin's doing. It's knocking on the doors of the cells. And so as much sugar, so to speak, or glucose in the blood that our body can use, the insulin is just saying, come on, come on, get it out of the blood. and where our body can't use it, i.e., perhaps we haven't been doing exercise or whatever, then it goes to the liver and the liver will try and use what it can is a store, but if the liver is already full up of its stores, then it will go to body fat.

And this is about this spike in this sugar in the blood. And glycemic index refers to how food is indexed as to whether it produces this sugar spike and to how much it produces a sugar spike when you eat it in our blood. So low glycemic index is good. Very good, yes. So give us some more examples then of low glycemic index foods. Here we go. Fruit and vegetables, nuts and seeds,

lagoons and pulses and whole grains. So there's a bit of a theme going on here, isn't it? Yes, yes, absolutely. And fats generally as well are low glycemic. So, you know, all these things that boost our immunity, improve our mood, feed our good gut bacteria, are also low glycemic. They're all just fantastic things. So what's about high glycemic foods? They're obviously not as good for us. Give us some examples of those. So sugary foods and eating a lot of dried fruit, and that's quite sugary, things like white rice and white flour products.

So white flour biscuits, white flour cakes, white flour pastures, things like that. So they're all high glycemic. it's best to try and avoid them for all these reasons we've been speaking about. And I think, I mean, I've changed my cooking. I have got a sweet tooth and my children like biscuits and cakes, but I use quite a lot of spelt flour, but I don't, I sometimes mix it with white flour and then just add a bit more baking powder. So, and I think that's obviously better. And it was interesting when I last went to the supermarket, there was no white flour, but there was lots of spelt flour, rye flour. Yeah.

Yeah. And the kinawa that you're saying, that spelt QU. I-N-O-A, it's very easy to cook. It's easier than rice. It's very quick. But actually, a lot of people don't know about it. And there was a lot of Kinwa on the shelves. And even my children will eat it. Sometimes I'll cook it with some kuscus as well to stir through for a bit of change. And with children, it can be quite hard because what my children eat now, they wouldn't have eaten five years ago. Yeah. And we've just changed things very gradually. And when we're stressed as parents, that stress can go through with children and meal times can.

then be very stressful. And for me, I really strongly feel that meal time should be pleasurable. Certainly in my house, we don't have our phones near us at the table, much to my children's discussed at times, but we can all survive 20 minutes without our phones. But also, we quite often reflect as a family, you know, what could things have to happen to you today? And have you been feeling? And because if I say to them, what have you done at school or what have you done today, they'll just say nothing or the usual. Yeah. So it doesn't lead to a couple of conversation and certainly there is some evidence, isn't there, that if you sit down when you eat, that's better than standing up and actually having time to enjoy your food. And I know

a lot of the work and the workshops you do, you're very passionate about enjoying food. It's not just fuel. And if you have this sensation, you know what you're going to. You can smell the food. You prepare it. You're looking forward to it. And then when you eat when you're hungry and eat slowly, you can really enjoy it. And I think the secret for a lot of food is enjoying it because we've got to find pleasure in what we do. But it's also so you can keep full for longer. Yeah. Because a lot of us will reach for something to try and have an immediate boost.

But then half an hour later we feel worse because you get this big dip. Yeah. So if we can have some of the foods that you're saying, it can make quite a difference to how you feel two, three hours later as well, which is really important. That's so true, exactly. And it's quite interesting. going back to those high glycemic foods, the sugar, the white flour product foods, they, funnily enough, themselves can produce a bit of stress in the body. And then you've got the stress anyway of what's going on and then the stress of daily life. So we might have quite a lot of

stress going on. And you're right, sitting down and trying to mindfully eat and perhaps use the eating and the chewing to calm yourself and being perhaps with the family, hopefully, being eating with someone, that's all very calming and stress relieving. Chewing itself is very stress relieving. Because it's interesting, research shows that stress itself suppresses the immune system. So, you know, it's just, oh gosh, deep breaths and yeah. It is. And I think we know that stress induces inflammation and if people have more inflammation, they have an increased risk of diseases going on, such as heart disease and diabetes and so forth. And, you know, we've got to look to the long term and to see how much we can do to improve our health when we get through all this.

And certainly exercising as well as eating healthily is really important, isn't it? Oh, extremely. Some of us are going to be very restricted in what exercise we can do, but we can still go outside, even if we have to go outside on our own. Yeah. But I think getting fresh air, having some vitamin D if there's any sunlight is really important as well, isn't it? Oh, extraordinarily. So interesting enough, vitamin D definitely does boost immunity, which is why the NHS recommends 10 micrograms of vitamin D throughout the winter months and the tail end of autumn and spring. And so this isn't just women. It's certainly not just menopause or women. It's children over the age of one. And male females should certainly have at least 10. If you're high risk, there's some evidence that having 25 micrograms is good. because this is the sunlight vitamin.

So you can get a little bit from oily fish and some eggs, for example, but not enough. So even if you have the best diet in the world, you really need to supplement with vitamin D. And the reason that it's recommended to us is because it's good for our bone health. So it helps with keeping bones strong, especially in the winter months. But like you say, Emma, there is evidence that it reduces inflammation and boost immunity as well, isn't it? Yes, that's right. That's right. And look, I think it's great.

In the UK we're coming to spring. Let's hope it's a warm spring. There's a plenty of sunshine. I think if a person is able to get outside and strip off to as much skin showing as possible whilst staying warm in the middle of the day, that's fantastic. It's amazing. That will help. That will boost their immunity. It will help to produce some vitamin D production in their body. Perhaps wearing a T-shirt and if it's warm enough, some shorts and going for a walk. Going for the walk and the exercise boosts immunity. And so it goes on. And I understand from the health authorities that they say we can go outside if we're sort of two metres from people sort of thing. So it's okay.

So it is important, really important that we consider that. And then any other supplements at all, I mean, whenever I go to supermarket or to chemists, there's shelves and shelves and shelves of supplements. And I have no idea what to tick. But I do know a lot of them are very expensive. And at a time that we have to be really careful about our finances as well. Yeah. Gd is really cheap, actually, and it doesn't really matter.

There's lots of marketing saying certain types are better, but I think most of us will agree that it doesn't really matter what manufacturer or what make it is. What other supplements? Are there any others that you think would be worthwhile? So zinc's quite important. I think it depends what people are eating. Good sources of zinc, in fact, fantastic source of zinc is oysters, but I think for some people that might be a bit hard to get.

I mean, you can get tinned oysters, and that would have plenty of zinc in it still. But some people don't like oysters, but that's an amazing one. And zinc's found in pumpkin seeds. And pumpkin seeds aren't massively expensive. But beyond that, zinc is actually quite boosting to the immunity. So, I mean, that might be one to look at having. Also, probiotics, there is some evidence to suggest that sort of acidophilus and bifidus type of probiotics are quite boosting to the immunity.

And that goes back to the fact that so much of our immunity is built up and comes from, from the gut. And so having a probiotic is quite handy. You know, as well as eating the pre-biotic foods that I mentioned. And certainly if, I mean, we've, we've spoken about this on a previous podcast that you can all listen to, but I make my own kephya that you kind of gave me. Yes. And if any of you are making kefir, well, we have spoken about it before. It's very easy to make. But actually, it's very easy to share with people. Yes. So I've got enough that I've given to some of the doctors here and I can still give out. And it takes me two minutes every three. days to make so it doesn't take long and that can be snuck into various foods or smoothies.

So even if you're not buying probiotics, then that's one way of having some probiotics at least, isn't it? Yes, it is. It is. And absolutely. And kaffir is one of the best. But then I guess the humble yogurt, if it's just natural plain yogurt, that does actually contain those alive bacteria.

So that's really good to have if you can tolerate dairy. It's absolutely brilliant. So I agree. And it's funny. If you do know anyone who does make kaffir, they're always trying to keep. give the kaffir grains, as they're called, away. So that's a great one to define someone who's making it to do that. Yes, so, look, rounding it up, I think that vitamin C rich fruit and vegetables,

generally, which are actually in most fruit and vegetables, I mean, all fruit and vegetables have vitamin C. And that genuinely is a good thing, a really good thing. And frozen does still contain it. Then you've got the vitamin D, which is in sunshine, which is a little bit in those oily fish, a little bit in mushrooms that have been exposed to sunshine and in free-range eggs. But you've got zinc and pumpkin seeds and oysters. All those pre-botic foods I mentioned, the nuts and seas, the lentils, pulses, you know, legumes,

and the whole grains. And you've got those kind of fermented foods and what those that you're used to, the kathia, brilliant, yogurt, live sauerkraut, kimchi, all those sort of things. It's all good. And there's genuine sunshine and exercise. wherever a person can. That's the way to really keep ourselves well and boosted. I think that's brilliant and it's really good to hear

very simple ways of trying to improve. And certainly on your website, which we'll put a link to on the podcast notes, there are some very simple recipes, aren't there? Yes. For people to do. And certainly I'm going to try and use this time to teach my children how to cook

because I feel I don't see why I should be cooking all their meals when they're the ones at home off school. So cooking should be, pleasurable. It shouldn't be a chore. And we just need to be really savvy at the moment about how we spend our money in the supermarket, but also what's available to us. To sometimes just circling around in shelves that you might not have looked at before is really important. Yes. So thank you ever so much, Emma. I think this is actually the first podcast I've done where I haven't even mentioned the word menopause, which is quite shocking. But as you know,

the menopause affects everyone. And this, what we're talking about today is, certainly nothing to do with the menopause. We all need to look after ourselves, whether we're menopausal or not. So thank you for getting me out of my comfort zone, Emma, and talking about something that's not just the menopause. So finally, can you just give, in the usual style, three take-home tips? So maybe three things that people should consider buying that they might not have done before they listen to this podcast. Yes. So I think one of the easiest ones is if you buy rice and you like rice, buy brown rice. It's, doesn't take much longer to cook than white rice. And if at first you think your family will be

really a bit concerned about that, then just mix it with a little bit of white rice and cook that up. I would buy some brown rice. And the other thing I would do is get some simple vegetables like broccoli and cabbage and just cook them up and try and kind of eat them each day, garlics, onions, those sorts of prebiotic immune, gut immune boosting vegetables have those. And actually, going away from food, I'd really recommend that wherever possible someone try to keep up the exercise during this time in any way, shape or form. I mean, much better if they can get outside of, they can't, then download an app and just inspire themselves to do it. Yeah. Excellent. Really, really good advice, as always Emma. So thanks ever so much for giving up your

time today and coming on this podcast. Okay, fantastic Louise. For more information about the menopause, please visit our website www.